Egypt: "The Muslim Brotherhood said now is not the time for Christians to press demands."

When would be a good time? Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr. said it well:

"Frankly I have never yet engaged in a direct action movement that was 'well timed,' according to the timetable of those who have not suffered unduly from the disease of segregation ... This 'wait' has almost always meant 'never.' We must come to see with the distinguished jurist of yesterday that 'justice too long delayed is justice denied'." -- Letter from a Birmingham Jail

"Stunned by bloodshed, Egyptians torn over army," by Sarah El Deeb for the Associated Press, October 15:

CAIRO (AP) — An army crackdown on a protest that killed more than 20 Christians has not only stunned Egyptians, it has left them with deeply torn feelings toward the force seen as the protector of the nation. Even supporters of the ruling military are grappling with the question of how the bloodshed could have happened. [...]
Some try to find excuses for the ruling junta or nervously defend it. Intertwined in the reaction are the religious tensions between Egypt's Muslim majority and Christian minority. The fact that victims were Christians has made some less sympathetic or more willing to forgive the army's actions.
It began Sunday night when thousands of Christians demonstrated outside the state television building, protesting an attack on a church in southern Egypt. Army troops waded in, and armored personnel carriers barreled through the crowds. The violence killed 26 people, including at least 21 Christians, some crushed by vehicles or shot to death. State media said three soldiers were among the dead.

State TV has since reported that no soldiers died, well after the report of casualties was used to incite violence against Christians.

In the first official press conference after the violence, the military tried to exonerate itself, blaming the Christians and "hidden hands" for starting the violence, denying its troops shot any protesters or intentionally ran them over. Witnesses said soldiers started the melee. Videos showing soldiers beating and shooting into crowds and armored vehicles seeming to chase protesters cast doubt on the military's account.
The public seemed torn in every direction. Some accept the military's version. Many activists accuse the military of intentionally sparking the bloodshed — or at least exploiting it and the sectarian tensions — to scare Egyptians from protesting and to justify its hold on power. They say the bloody attack has derailed discussion of how to hold parliament elections due to begin on Nov. 28.
On Friday, a march through Cairo denouncing the military and demanding justice for victims came under a hail of rocks thrown by army supporters.
Some Muslim clerics have hiked criticism of Christians' demands for equal rights. Christians, mainly from the Coptic Orthodox Church, make up around 10 percent of Egypt's population of 85 million.
A cleric delivering his Friday sermon in a state-run mosque in the Mediterranean city of Alexandria warned Christians against demanding a new law to ease restrictions on building churches and accused them of seeking foreign protection.
Another cleric urged Egyptians to protect the military against protesters. The Muslim Brotherhood said now is not the time for Christians to press demands.
The tensions were on display at a candlelight vigil Thursday night to honor the slain Christians and denounce the military.
Among the crowd of several hundred was Sheik Osama. He sported the moustache-less beard and skull cap of an ultra-conservative Muslim, but he was attending in support of Christian victims. Days earlier, at their funeral, he raised an Orthodox Cross among the mourners, an image widely circulated on social networking sites as a symbol of Muslim-Christian unity.
"The (military) council wants to link the violence to sectarianism and make people forget about the revolution," he said Thursday.
Um Abdullah, a veiled company clerk in her 40s, argued with others in the crowd and dismissed talk that the military was to blame. She said the Christians aimed to "humiliate" the military.
"An Egyptian soldier appeared crying on TV. How can that be? Israel will take us lightly," she said, refusing to give her full name.
"The Copts have always picked a fight. They always say we are the real owners of this land. They take Muslim women and hold them in churches, and now they attack the army," she said. "They want to twist the military rulers' arms so they can get more churches. Why aren't they happy with the churches they've got?"
Another woman, Safaa, shouted at Um Abdullah for blaming the Copts, but she was reluctant to join demands the army step down.
"Say the army was to blame, but what else can we rely on?" she said, refusing to give her last name because of the tense discussions. A veiled woman in her 50s, she participated from early on in the 18-day wave of protests that brought down Mubarak.
"But we can't beat down on the army. We are forced to accept them," she said. "Say your father beat you. Wouldn't you give him whatever he beats you with and tell him to do it again? He is your father."
The violence showed an ugly face of sectarianism, even among the military troops.
A woman whose fiance was crushed by an armored vehicle during the mayhem said a military police officer kicked his corpse and hit her on the back calling her "an infidel."
Other witnesses said police and military chased after Christians, shouting "Infidels, sons of dogs."
They broke into a nearby building, searching for Christians. Inside, they stormed the office of January 25 TV, a pro-revolution station, said a producer, Hossam Haddad.
A frenzied military officer demanded to see staffers' IDs, shouting "One of my comrades was killed, you sons of dogs." He then kicked a Christian staffer in the face with his combat boots, Haddad said.
The station has been off the air since.
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Much resemblence to the StormTroopers of the past except Infidel replaces Jew in their hate speech.

The Muslim Brotherhood is trying to paint a "moderate" face on itself. In line with this, the sectarian violence makes the MB uncomfortable, as it forces them to take a stand. As literalist Muslims, they could care less about the Christians, although the MB is willing to allow the Copts to live as dhimmis and even to participate in the government in a subservient position.

But, the MB seems to take no position on issues like the repair or construction of churches. This is understandable, as the MB on the one hand wishes to appear moderate internationally, and on the other, is unwilling to oppose a bedrock Sharia principle. Also, the MB seems on a fast track to political power, and the first rule of a successful political party is to not rock the boat with unpopular ideas.

This is on the hands of the Egyptian Army and those in the West who cheered on the Arab Spring. They actively cheered the downfall of a despot and are ignoring the takeover of another.

Where are those champions of human rights now? Paging Cindy Sheehan and Bill Ayers. Must be too busy living in their own filth on Wall street. Real answer is the rights of the Copts don't matter to these twits because they are Christians.

The silence is eeily similar to the silence heard during the true popular uprising in Iran. It shows you the leftist/progressing movement truly is interested in nothing but causing chaos. Disgusting.....

Leftover fragments of Kristal Nacht for the Copts, courtesy of Islam, the Nazi's collaborators.

How many families in Egypt can look back and find some or several remote ancestors that were not Muslim? Or perhaps not very remote?
It is something to suppress, or ignore? Is it shameful? Is it perhaps only of interest insofar as the ancestors did the right thing and converted? Of no consequence?

A reprise of a video of a few years ago, showing the plight of some
Christian Copts:


"Egypt's Rubbish People"

http://kitmantv.blogspot.com/2008/12/egypts-rubbish-people.html

And the Moslems wonder why the Copts would seek external protection and be deeply wary of their Moslem neighbours.


As always, the time has come to redirect the Camp David accord's financing the the Copts and systematically reduce foreign aid to that country. If the junta needs money, get it from the Gulf states, that have over 10 trillion$ thanks to the 40 years of price gouging us on oil.

But of course the Gulf states won't so I don't see why the U.S. or Europe should pick up the slack. Anyways, Unlike other commentators, the Copts need to stay in Egypt and having independent source of aid would be a helpful step.

the moslem ghetto highschool mindset.

pick on the weak, the outnumbered, the different, the infidels, the blasphemers, gays, women, sunnis, shiites...
anyone that they can and get away with it. and if you can kill or rape or capture, torture, mutilate or behead, condemn on a trumped up charge or stone someone, even better.

its the only constant. violence. its proven EVERY DAY>
several times over.

everything else is market bazar haggles or tantrums or lies.

backwards children with some adult capabilities.

show us different. show us a major reform.. or debate even.
show us some capability to be civil and civilised. give an example of a smooth, fair, co operative transition and a stable state...

i dare you, islam.

Here and there in different forums I have encountered people who connect Islam with the mindset of the three-year-old.

A religion for three-year-olds, or, 'the toddlers' rules of ownership'.

"If it's mine it's mine,

if it's yours it's mine,

if I like it is mine,

if I can take it from you it is mine,

if I am playing with something ALL of the pieces are mine,

if I think it is mine it is,

if I saw it first it's mine,

if I had it then put it down it is still mine,

if you had it then you put it down it is now mine,

if it looks like the one I have at home it is mine,


if it is broken it is yours."

Revised version:


If it's mine it's mine,

if it's yours it's mine
,
if I like it is mine,

if I can take it from you it is mine,

if I am playing with something ALL of the pieces are mine,

if I think it is mine it is,

if I saw it first it's mine,

if I had it then put it down it is still mine,

if you had it then you put it down it is now mine,

if it looks like the one I have at home it is mine,

if it is broken it is yours
.if you fix it it is now mine."

I came across these particular versions on Pam Geller's website, in the comments to the following thread -

http://atlasshrugs2000.typepad.com/atlas_shrugs/2010/05/muslim-lender-forces-christian-to-sell-kidney.html


Fair Dinkum and Dumbledore's Army—Aussies both!—excellent posts. I can't add much over all.

Just one point. From the article:

"But we can't beat down on the army. We are forced to accept them," she said. "Say your father beat you. Wouldn't you give him whatever he beats you with and tell him to do it again? He is your father."
................................

Note: this, from someone who *protested against Mubarak*. Clearly, she did not regard Mubarak as her "father".

That's because she did not regard Mubarak as "sufficiently Islamic". A ruler who is properly Islamic can *never* be disobeyed—and that is, clearly, how many now regard the Egyptian military.

But a non-Islamic or "insufficiently Islamic" ruler may be protested against, ousted, or even assassinated outright.

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