The target would be the NATO missile defense shield located in Turkey, but such an attack would still be a strike on the territory of an un-involved third country. That could carry unintended consequences for Iran, which is not taking into account in this round of saber-rattling that Turkey just might also take umbrage at that sort of thing.
"Iran threatens to hit Turkey if US, Israel attack," from the Associated Press, November 26:
TEHRAN, Iran -- A senior commander of Iran's powerful Revolutionary Guard says the country will target NATO's missile defense shield in Turkey if the U.S. or Israel attacks the Islamic Republic.
Gen. Amir Ali Hajizadeh, the head of the Guards' aerospace division, is quoted by the semiofficial Mehr news agency as saying the warning is part of a new defense strategy to counter what it sees as an increase in threats from the U.S. and Israel.
He says Iran will now respond to threats with threats rather than a defensive position.
Tehran says NATO's early warning radar station in Turkey is meant to protect Israel against Iranian missile attacks if a war breaks out with Israel.
Turkey agreed to host the radar in September as part of NATO's missile defense system.
Israel and Turkey are currently at odds, relations are exceedingly strained. I can't wait to hear Turkey's official reaction to this development.
See if Prime Minister of Turkey ERDOGAN keeps bragging about his religion, muslim nations like Iran and blaming Israel for anything bad under the sun. I bet he will blame Israel and USA whatever happens. I hope we stop sending my tax dollars to that guy now.
And the downside would be......
So much for this display of friendship between Erdogan and Arabdinejad from not too long ago, huh?
Sounds like a plan...I wish them luck and a speedy recovery...
Iran to bomb Turkey..
Come on Ahmaddy, make my day. Erdoggy, go prepare for counterstrike. Blast each other with some tough Islamic love.
Iran has been gradually losing control of its primary strategy in the ME. By supporting their natural companions Hizballah (Twelver Shi’ites, just like the mullahs of Iran) to the north of Israel, the Syrian (Shi’ite) Alawite regime that supplies Hizballah, and simultaneously supporting Hamas (an offshoot of the Sunni Muslim Brotherhood) to the south, Iran has tried to consistently demonstrate that Shi’ite Islam was able to do something that no Sunni government in the vicinity had been capable of. Namely, keeping Israel in a stranglehold at both border regions, like in a sort of static pincer movement. In fact, ever since Khomeiny came to power in 1979, the official policy of Tehran has been to try to elevate the status of Shi’ites within Islam as a whole and hence shake off the dim view the majority of Sunnis have of them.
Whereas the main issues between Shi’ites and Sunnis derive mainly from eschatological differences, related to the succession dispute after Mohammed died, there is another particular reason why both groups find themselves at loggerheads with one another. The history of Iran itself explains quite poignantly why this still has repercussions in ME politics today. The Safavid conversion of Iran from Sunnism to Shiism made Iran the spiritual bastion of Shia Islam against the onslaught of orthodox Sunni Islam. And nowadays, as a majority Shi’ite country, all Shi’ite minorities in other Muslim countries, consider Iran to be the guardian of Shi’ism as a whole.
When Shah Ismail I conquered Iran and established his rule in the early sixteenth century, he decided to eradicate all Sunnism from the country. Iran, at that time being majority-Sunni, was de facto proselytized to Shi’ism. One of the main reasons why Ismail and his followers pursued such a severe conversion policy was to give Iran and the Safavid lands as distinct and unique an identity as was possible compared to its two neighboring Sunni Turkish military and political enemies, the Ottoman Empire and, for a time, the Central Asian Uzbeks — to the west and north-east respectively. The Safavids were engaged in a lengthy struggle with the Ottomans — including numerous wars between the two dynasties — and this struggle continuously motivated the Safavids to create a more cohesive Iranian identity to counter the Ottoman threat and possibility of a fifth-column within Iran among its Sunni subjects. In order to enable the conversion, Ismail I, who held a vehement disdain for Sunnis, regularly resorted to violent measures. With the exception of cultural minorities on the fringes of Iranian society, like most Kurds and the nomadic Baloch, who remained Sunni, the sedentary population of Iran became gradually majority Shi’ite.
Whereas Sunnis deem Shi’ites to be heretics by default, they are also feared by Sunnis for violent prosecution and conversion of Sunni Muslims to Shiism up to this day ! The historically justified paranoia of (among others) the Sunnis of the Arabian Peninsula carries over well into this century. With the growing sphere of Shi’ite influence in Iraq, it became pivotal for Sunni leaders to block the advance of the Shia oil slick on other fronts, out of sheer fear, plus the frustration of Shi’ite Iran claiming to be able to keep Israel in check at the borders and the added threat of developing nuclear weapons !
This is basically the main reason why the neo-Ottoman Erdogan decided to step in, with the intent to wean Sunni Hamas away from Tehran, and to assume the role of protector of all Sunnism in the region of the Mediterrenean. Erdogan has made himself the counterweight to Shi’ite Iran, in fact mirroring Iran’s intent to keep control of Lebanon (through Hizballah) and Syria (through the Alawite regime) by undermining Syria first and then marching on to Lebanon. As soon as Hamas will find Iran’s role severely diminished as a consequence of Ottoman scheming, it will switch sides. The Iranian mullahs however know that they are losing ground with regards to their grasp on Israel at its borders, and that’s why they have been stepping up efforts to speed up the development of nuclear weapons, the only means they’ll have left to keep claiming they can keep tabs on Israel. To them this is a geostrategical project of the highest importance. And they’ll be very reluctant to lose it.
The mullahs have to keep their grasp on Syria and Lebanon, otherwise they will lose both to the Ottomans of Turkey, who already persecute the Alevi (Shi'ite) minority on their own patch. The development of nuclear weapons will be their last resort to avoid such a thing happening and can serve as a means to apply added pressure on the Turks. The fact that NATO in Turkey has been threatened, has historical roots in the Ottoman vs Safavid history of the region, both historical powers trying to stave off the growing influence of the other one !
Iran attacking Turkey? Or just one more facade from one islamic regime to another burgeoning islamic regime pretending animosity when in reality they are fully under the same covers,sheets that is, rugs or whatsoever.
heck that would be a bonus for Israel and NATO! bombs away
So much for Turco-Iranian rapprochement?
The Iranian Regime is simply insane! With all their outrageous lies coming from them, its hard to decipher any truth.
I believe that the recent boldness, though they were always somewhat bold, coming from the Iranian Regime simply means, they already have the bomb.
Does anyone believe the Big O would launch an attack, which they should, to stop the Charlie Manson of the Middle East from starting a world war? No, he would not! As to the why one needs to see what he did to Islamic nations and to what he is doing here in the US.
This only leaves the courageous Israeli's to be the sole nation on this earth to stop the Iranian threat. With O's pure Islamic design in the Middle East, all Muslim nations will come together, again, with the same purpose and goals. That purpose being to destroy Israel and then, since they are a military force they will use it towards their ultimate goal, which is to conquer the world into Islam or its submission to.
In the meantime, we have, the mightiest combination of a fighting force the world has ever known, America and the UK locked in a political bickering for power and having their citizen's patriotic values depleted, save those that are fighting this fight now within their countries I'm not forgetting at all the Allied nations that stood with the blood of their citizens prior to this time to destroy the Nazi Regime.
The US, at this time is sidetracked with the constant threats of terror within its borders, their horrible economic condition and the elections. With these issues and with who is leading America, I believe the Israelis will not have any other option, than to go it alone with the global threat of Iran's nuclear agenda. It can't wait until after the US elections when, hopefully O is out of the picture, but for the next year the Big O will not make this move, but only attempt to stop it. If Iran doesn't have the bomb now and I believe they do, then less than one year they are certain to possess it and will use it.
Not a nice picture to paint, but I feel, from watching world events as they unfold, it's a very possible and probable picture of what's ahead for this dangerous world.
How many Muslims does it take to screw in a light bulb?
None - They sit in the darkness and blame the Jews.
Speaking of turkeys, remember to stop buying Butterball.
And how about comenting on this hatchet job?
http://blog.nj.com/dr_aref_assaf/2011/11/on_thanksgiving_why_hate_halal.html
Excellent! Anushirvan.
I fear it will be as you say. We are rolling towards a world war of epic proportions.
The problem is not Iran vs Turkey, it's Shia Islam vs Sunni Islam. Iran is mostly Shia while Turhey is mostly Sunni.
O, how they hate each other!
Sunni Islam venerates Aisha as the "Mother of Believers" while Shia Islam celebrates Aisha's death every year by chanting "Aisha is in Hell, Aisha is in Hell".
Sunni Islam believes that Muhammad is in Paradise while Shia Islam believes that he is in Paradise but.. without his "Private Parts"!!!
http://crossmuslims.blogspot.com/2011/07/private-parts-of-muhammad.html
Wow a like mind.........
Nice. Here's another.
There's a hot new toy that's just in time for Christmas. It's the talking Muslim doll. No one knows what it says though because everyone is scared sh*tless to pull the cord.
Oh please President Amadmanonajihad don't blow up the Turkey briar patch!
Hm. I always remember blustering Iran vs blustering Iraq with two of the "worlds strongest armies" beeing in standstill, horns locked, for eight bloody murderous years. Then comes the US, toppeling Iraq ("the strongest nation in Islam") in two weeks.
Looks like a solution. No boots on the ground, no western nation-building, just keep Islam's power checked, bombed and then leave their islamic-crapistan-nation-building to themselves.
Iran lashes out in all directions right now. They seem not to want to acknowledge that their shiite isn't liked from Turkistan to Sunnistan.
Thanks for the analyses of both the Sunni-Shi'a rivalry and the Turkish-Persian rivalry. Would you care to speculate on what role Pakistan -- which is majority Sunni, but with a large Shi'a minority, and which already has nukes -- might play in any confrontation between Turkey and Iran? Also, rumor has it that the Saudis have purchased a few of the Pakistani nukes; might they be tempted to use them against the Shi'as?
Why does Iran threaten Nato?
That might cause all the various Nato members to put pressure on Israel not to attack Iran.
On the other hand, since Iranian government leaders think that world chaos will hasten the return of the Madhi, the Islamic Messiah, then attacking Nato seems a good way to bring chaos.
Spengler claims in his new book that Israel has become a technological powerhouse with more venture capital investment than in the whole of Europe. Also, that in 2008, with 1/100 the population of the Arab world, Israel produced ten times as many patents (per person, 1000 times the number of patents).
Tehran's desperate threats will yield more opposition to it's failing nuclear arms ambition. NATO's attritional sanctions and Israel's relentless covert actions has caused Iran to fragment it's effort and has appreciably set back, Iran's nuclear time table.
Israel will not allow Iran to arm itself with a nuclear war head. It will do whatever it needs to do, until Iran's growing economic instability, forces Tehran to abandon it's maniacal goals.
Turkey or Turky ?
Turkey or Turky ?
OT:
PATENT CREATION PER CAPITA in 2010:
Some examples of top ranked nations:
The United States (pop. 312 million) in 2010 was awarded about 1/2 of all patents awarded in the world that year. Currently, the U.S. seems to be the top creator of patents in the world, both absolutely and per capita.
U.S. rate of patent creation per capita: 0.039
Japan: Rate of patent creation per capita: 0.037
South Korea: 0.026
Israel: 0.025
Switzerland: 0.024
Finland: 0.023
Germany: 0.017
Sweden: 0.017
Netherlands: 0.011
The UK: 0.008
France: 0.008
Italy: 0.004
I left out some of the nations in the top ranks.
By comparison, here is China's 2010 rate, quite low, per capita:
China: 0.00025
However, in absolute numbers, China's patent creation is not so low, since China's population is so huge. China's rate of patent creation is increasing yearly.
(This means Israel, per population, is producing significantly more patents than Germany, but not as many as Japan or the U.S.)
This threat doesn't surprise me. The mullahs are fuming over Turkey's support of Syria's opposition and anti-regime forces. It's as much an indirect warning to Turkey if it dare intervene militarily in Syria.
To put the above in clearer terms:
That's about 39 patents per 100,000 people in the U.S.
37 per 100,000 in Japan
25 per 100,000 in Israel
17 per 100,000 in Germany.
Etc.
Excellent post.
The mullahs believe that God and history are on their side in the war against infidel Israel. They believe with absolute faith that they will succeed where Sunnis have failed, and that when Israel is destroyed and its Jews annihilated the Sunni world will see the light and flock to Shia Islam.
Thanks for the post. Very informative.
From the post
"With the growing sphere of Shi’ite influence in Iraq"
Gee, how did that happen?
*****SPOILER ALERT*****
Well, let's think about this story for a second.
1) Turkey has been rapidly redeveloping along an Islamic supremacist path.
2) The Arab Spring has been outed as the prelude to the Sharia Fall.
3) Turkey's leadership is no doubt looking for a way out of the NATO deal as it's not in line with the Sharia Fall and the direction they've been moving.
SO, LOGIC SAYS FOUR MUST BE TRUE...
4) This is not sabre rattling at all. It is a prearranged part of a deceptive plot for Turkey to back out of the NATO deal. Now they have an excuse.
*****END OF SPOILER ALERT*****
Iran to U.S., Israel: Don't attack us, or Turkey gets it
.................................
Sorta pokes a hole in that whole "Muslims are merciful to one another" idea, don't it?
Very interesting Anushirvan. Thank you for filling us in on some of the historical background.
Fantastic idea! In that case, Israel should go ahead w/ its attack on Iran - let Iran retaliate against Turkey. Oh, & btw, get Syria also into the conflict, since Turkey is anyway aiding in trying to topple the Assad regime.
Look, if the U.S. (under a real president) and Israel attack Iran, don't you think they'll have a little more on their minds than going after an "after-the-fact" installation in Turkey?
Let's see....
Iran will attack the NATO missile defense shield in Turkey...with what? Missiles?
~ The Infidel Alliance
Excellent. Two radical jihadist fascist nations with one stone. What are we waiting for?
You are making a few tentative points there. Shi'ites have come under increased persecution in Pakistan from Saudi funded Sunni terrorist groups. In fact, this is due to the fact that Saudi Wahhabism (a particular strain of Salafism) has been increasingly spending billions to let Salafi Islam seep into the madrasas of Pakistan in order to infiltrate Pakistani politics in the long run.
In my mind, this is suggestive of Saudi Arabia trying to keep tabs on the spread of Shi'ism in Pakistan with the intent to keep Iran's influence over Pakistani Shi'ites at bay (both the Twelver Shi'ites and the Ismailis of Pakistan). Needless to say, but this will be to the detriment of almost all secular-inspired political parties in Pakistan, among them the Pakistan Peoples Party. (run by the Bhutto clan, which is Shi'ite in origin, however the party itself is not exclusively Shi'ite, but rather secular-oriented and socialist)
Furthermore, Saudi Arabia also funds Jundallah, a Balochi separatist organization based in Iran's Sistan and Balochistan province that claims to be fighting for the rights of Sunni Balochis in Iran.(a largely nomadic people that escaped the conversion to Shi'ism in Iran). Saudi Arabia however cannot deal with these issues unless it has direct links to Pakistani government officials who support the growing Salafi influence in Pakistan. Which I think leads us automatically to particular echelons of the ISI.
It is quite clear to me that president Zardari, belonging to the Bhutto clan himself and a Shi'ite, will not gain a grasp on the Salafi infested ISI, because they can do as they please with their Saudi funds. Quite simple. That sort of explains to me why the ISI can operate like a state within a state and why they fund all manner of Sunni terrorist groups who consequently attack the Shi'ite minorities in Paksitan.
The question remains whether Pakistan and Iran will fight some nuclear war some day if Turkey gets invaded by Iran, and I think that in the near future, it may be unlikely. Iran won't probably know for sure what it's getting into at this point in time by threathening Turkey. At this moment the mullahs are panic-stricken with the idea that the Shi'ite sphere of influence will lose Syria and Lebanon altogether, so they feel it necessary to flex some muscle to contain the problem. It may change however when they have the power to operate nuclear weapons effectively and efficiently. Pakistan on the other hand will probably not strike Iran pre-emptively to come to the aid of the Turks, unless secular-oriented politics and the Shi'ite influences in Pakistan are completely eradicated at the hands of Salafis, working in tandem with the ISI and their Saudi benefactors.
Of course, this is all speculation, but then again no one is ever to know for sure whether these uneasy equilibriums may not be breached prematurely by other factors.
Seriously, Edrogan has single handedly destroyed any chance of Turkey becoming a full fledged euro country by making real the fascist ideals of his Muslim Brotherhood overlords.
Any westerner who does not recognise that Turkey is now every bit their enemy that Iran is is a very dangerous fool.
I say let them sink chin deap into the perpetual Arabian morass and to hell with them.
BUY ISRAELI GOODS amd boycott Turkish goods! If they wont financially support the only real democracy in the Middle east (Turkey now included thanks to Edrogan) then civilized countries shouldn't be financially supporting the new jihadist Turkey.
"Any westerner who does not recognise that Turkey is now every bit their enemy that Iran is is a very dangerous fool."
My thoughts exactly. Stupid is as stupid does. That's the kind of leaders the EU has...
Very informative. Thanks.
Unlike other Arab spring movement nations, our sitting President has done little to support street insurrection in Tehran. A week Irany economy, NATO's attritional sanctions and Israeli special operations will be all thats needed.
traeh: Thanks for the post though OT. It's encouraging to note that US still leads in innovation, followed by Japan.
Anushirvan: Thanks for the history/current issue lesson
AM I mistaken or are some of our best strategic thinkers here ethnic [subcontinental] Indians?
Traeh wrote:
OT:
PATENT CREATION PER CAPITA in 2010:
Some examples of top ranked nations...
.............................
Interesting, Traeh. Apart from the precise order of rankings, there were few surprises from me here—or probably for most other readers, either.
I spent some time Googling around to find the per capita creation of patents in the Muslim world, and apparently it is just too obscure a subject to readily find information on.
The only real reference I found was that Saudi Arabia had finally gotten around to creating a patent office in 1992—no information on how well it's been doing...
From the article:
"He says Iran will now respond to threats with threats rather than a defensive position."
________________________________
First of all, it seems to me Iran has done a fair-share of threatening for quite awhile now; all that stuff about "wiping Israel off the map", making Jews drink molten lead - you get the idea.
______________________________
How is it that threatening (or responding to threats by threatening) is now to be considered an "offensive position", as implied in the quote above?
_________________________________________
I would say the man has pretty-well defined the term...
"Saber-rattling"
For the time being, it may still be sabre-rattling but it can quickly spiral out of control. Keeping a tight grip on Shi'ite strongholds on the Mediterranean coast is high on the mullahs' priority list. If they want to keep a grip, the development of nuclear weapons will provide them with an extra means to put pressure on Ankara not to meddle in Syria and Lebanon.
As I read this useless threat all I could think of was the scene in Mel Brooks' Blazing Saddles where the citizens of the town are getting ready to lynch the new black sheriff who then puts a gun to his own head and says: "Hold it. The next man makes a move and the nigger gets it."
If you haven't seen Blazing Saddles or you have, but you have forgotten the scene, have a look at the following Youtube link. You can save some time by starting the YouTube viewer at the 2 minute mark.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=upvZdVK913I&feature=fvsr
As the sheriff says at the end of the clip "They're so dumb."
Threatening Turkey sounds more like an incentive than a deterrent.
PETER SHEARER wrote:
As I read this useless threat all I could think of was the scene in Mel Brooks' Blazing Saddles...
............................
A hilarious scene, Peter—although one with a very grim aspect.
Te sad thing is that if things really did pan out like the threat above, Muslim Turkey would be as likely to blame Israel and the United States as they would their unhinged and bloody-minded Shi'ite Iranian coreligionists...
Hi GI.
Yes, that sounds pretty scary.
I think the best case scenario, if that is the right term, is for Abraham_Lincoln's spoiler alert to be true. That way, NATO could retrieve its nuclear arsenal before it can be put to use against its owners.
The way things are going, the greater danger to us may be Turkey seizing the NATO nuclear umbrella stored in that country. Turkey may already hold more atom-powered bombs than Iran could ever turn out.