Belgium: Grenade attack outside courthouse linked to sentence in honor killing case

Here it comes, the Islamist backlash in the West we all knew would come. If we don't grind them into the dirt & start naming the enemy this will just be the start.

Be careful before attributing this to Islamic terror. We don't know for sure yet.If it transpires that it has nothing to do with Islam, it makes Jihad watch look bad.

By the way, can you link to this Karachi Post? It doesn't seem to exist.

Hi Robert,

Thanks for your reply. Your point is well taken, but I would rather you had held back until we had CONCRETE evidence of the motivations of this attack. Otherwise, it does make you a bit too keen to pin things like this on Muslims. It's happened before.

My advice is for your benefit, not mine.

Best Regards,

Will.

For when it happens here:

http://freemendo.typepad.com/undaunted/2010/11/speculations.html

http://freemendo.typepad.com/undaunted/2011/06/get-your-shit-in-one-bag.html

Gnaeus, STFU or start your own blog.

Robert,

Your blog is about Islamic Jihad. So why does this particular tragedy appear your blog? No solid link has yet been established between Amrani's actions and Islamic terrorism.

I am just begging you to be cautious. That's all. If the DT jumps off a cliff, would you follow?

It's up to you.

Best Regards,

Will.

Robert,

I'd love to read what's written in the Karachi Post if only I could find it.I prefer to base my conclusions on primary sources and not what 'they said that they said'.

Once again can you reference your source?

Best Regards,

Will.

It seems that the "honor killing" aspect of the story has been dropped - perhaps a cover-up of unpleasant information?

For example, Drudge says "honor killing" but if you go to the link on the Telegraph - this information is not there.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/belgium/8953449/Belgium-grenade-attack-leaves-at-least-two-dead.html

I think Gnaeus's advice is wise. Reproducing other peoples' speculation harms JW's credibility if they turn out to be baseless. No-one is questioning JW's right to quote the Karachi Post, only the wisdom in doing so.

And comments like undaunted's don't exactly reflect positively on JW's readership, either.

The official story is that this was a diversion created to aid a prisoner's escape attempt. Considering the over representation of Muslims among Belgian criminals, the fact that one of the perpetrators had a Muslim name is hardly surprising...

ReligionOfPeas, the Telegraph story originally had that information on the honor killings, but, they have since pulled it out without noting the change.

The Washington Post still notes it http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/blogpost/post/liege-belgium-grenade-and-gun-attack-kills-2-wounds-dozens/2011/12/13/gIQAG34ZrO_blog.html?hpid=z2

A 'wise decisions" is often a self-congratulatory euphemism for "Don't do anything!" Leave all to others, and if they are wrong, then they were foolish; but if they were right the wise man is still wise for waiting. What a bargain.

Here's the Telegraph link as I just now copied it:

"Belgium grenade attack leaves at least two dead"

"At least two people have been killed and up to 47 others wounded when up to four grenades exploded outside the main courthouse in the eastern Belgian city of Liege.

"The attack took place around noon on Saint-Lambert square, home to the town's courthouse and located near a busy Christmas market, Belga news agency said.

"A two-year-old child is reportedly fighting for life in hospital. Six other victims are said to be gravely injured.

"One of two or more assailants threw stun grenades into the courthouse while another was hurled at a bus shelter, RTL-TV1 said.

"Shots were fired across the square by gunmen posted on the rooftop of a bakery shop, with further shots heard later from across town.

"Police cordoned off the square and gave chase to the assailants, one of whom was reportedly killed. The gunmen are thought to be hiding in Liege cathedral.

"Gaspard Grosjean, a journalist for La Meuse Liege on the scene, told The Daily Telegraph there was panic and confusion on the streets of Liege.

"'There is at least one dead and the attacker. Police are looking for another shooter. There are lots of ambulances and many casualties - at least 10 people.'

"'At the moment you can't move in the city centre. People are crying and in shock - they do not know what is going on. Everyone has been told to stay inside and are hiding in shops.'

"Local bus operator TEC said that its buses were no longer able to enter the city centre. A museum located on the square said it had taken in injured people.

"'As we are very close and we have an open space where you can enter and leave with no problem. I can say there were injured, but don't ask me if it's five, seven, eight or nine. I don't know,' said Archeoforum director Jean-Jacques Messiaen.

"Police were not immediately contactable to confirm the toll or events."

---------------
Notice there's no mention of any Karachi Post.

I tend to agree with Gnaeus and Vagn Henning. If this were a general news site, then it would be appropriate to simply post available info, and later make corrections if the sources were proven to be faulty. But this isn't a general news site, it's a site about jihad---if there were no jihad/Islamic connection, then the story wouldn't be posted here at all. Of course Robert is free to post whatever he wants whenever he wants, but I also feel that prematurely linking a crime to jihad or Islam is just giving ammunition to foes of this site if the connection subsequently proves to be nonexistent.

from the Washington Post website article:

"Update, 9:00 a.m. EST/3:00 p.m. CET:

"Belgian news site HLN.be reports that three armed men escaped from the city courthouse just before the attack. Pakistan’s Karachi Post claims the attack was linked to a sentence in an honor killing case. It said the family members of Sadia Sheikh were sentenced Monday when a bomb alert went off in court."

Later updates make no further mention of this.

So the WaPo was also citing, at least for a while, the "Karachi Post".

from the Washington Post website article:

"Update, 9:00 a.m. EST/3:00 p.m. CET:

"Belgian news site HLN.be reports that three armed men escaped from the city courthouse just before the attack. Pakistan’s Karachi Post claims the attack was linked to a sentence in an honor killing case. It said the family members of Sadia Sheikh were sentenced Monday when a bomb alert went off in court."

Later updates make no further mention of this.

So the WaPo was also citing, at least for a while, the "Karachi Post".

...near a busy Christmas market, Belga news agency said.
"A two-year-old child is reportedly fighting for life in hospital...

Could be another Christmas attack like the one at the Strasbourg Christmas market: http://crombouke.blogspot.com/2011/03/islams-jihad-against-christmas.html

Well - it looks like this has been resolved. According to the NY Times:

"At a news conference in the city, Belgium’s third largest, the prosecutor’s office identified the attacker as Nordine Amrani, who had been convicted of serious drug and gun charges, and said he died at the scene. A motive for the attack was not immediately known though the Interior Ministry said it was not related to terrorism."

Nothing to see here.

Just more "random" violence.
Maybe workplace-related.
MAybe upset at the Walloon-French "tensions" in Belgium.

There's just no telling, but the main thing is - there are dead kuffir and IT'S NOT TERRORISM!!!!!!!

Need I point out the arrogant presumptuousness in yours?

all -

"Karachi Post" appears to be some // user on Twitter //.

Amrani is a Moroccan family name. He committed suicide after he'd thrown the grenades and had emptied his AK-47.

Photo of people // running for cover //.

Sag

If this blog only reported incidents that are verified, proved, 100% guaranteed Jihadist attacks reported by the majority of mass media after a mulling over it for a while and sleeping on it just in case to see whether anything to the contrary should emerge, and the perpetrators identified and either convicted and sentenced or utterly vanished ......then this would be a sad and lonely cobwebby place.

raw RTLinfo.be video . . .ff to 0:06 and listen carefully . . .sounds like "allah..."

Description

LIEGE: Scènes de panique et chasse à l'hommeLa tension restait forte vers 14h30 (13h30 GMT) alors que les policiers recherchaient un homme qui a pris la fuite dans le centre ville et pourrait s'être réfugié dans une nouvelle enceinte du palais de justice qui n'était pas ouverte au public.

google translation:

LIEGE: Scenes of panic and hunting hommel tension remained high around 14h30 (13h30 GMT), while the police sought a man who fled in the city center and could have taken refuge in a new wall of the courthouse which was not open to the public.

Off Topic
Based on probability with which I have familiarity as implied in my nom de guerre, he most probably was a muslim.
Off Topic
I am working on the essence of islam. Here is my take:

THE ESSENCE OF ISLAM: Islam is the world's largest NGO (non-godly organization) posing as the most enlightened religion cum civilization created and followed by the objectively inferior* in order to feel subjectively superior. Because of this existential contradiction, Islam seeks to forcefully create a worldwide caliphate to dhimmify and parasitize the non-muslim world before it self-implodes. All the types of Jihad are born of this essence.

* Example
subjectively PAKISTAN, Land Of The Pure
objectively PATHETICSTAN, Land Of The Manure

17:31 local time:

Four people confirmed dead: two boys, 15 and 17 years old, a woman of 75 years old and the 29 year old killer.

Seventy-five people wounded.

Nordine Amrani shot himself through the head.

Let me make this absolutely clear.

Robert Spencer is my hero. I am not half the man he his. I couldn't do he does. I don't have the balls. His is view of Islam is objective and ABSOLUTELY spot on. That's why (was it Adam Gadahn??)they invited him to convert to Islam. Robert knows exactly what Islam is!

However, I think we need to win over people who are neutral when it comes to the role Islam is playing in today's world, and this is not the way to go about.

Robert can write what he likes of course. I am sure that he appreciates that some of his readership don't have to agree with everything on this blog. My comment was only made to with the best interests of this blog at heart.

Honestly! :)

Have the Belgians had enough of Muslim world multicultural enrichment yet?

Robert uses something like the Marquess of Queensbury Rules in this existential battle between civilization and barbarism. I, myself, prefer the rules governing mixed martial arts.

Some graphic pics in the Belgian // Le Soir //.

Sag

Ooops a daisy. That was meant for Canto28.

Not a Terrorist attack? ... The press has told us so.

But then from http://www.libertarianrepublican.net/2011/12/breaking-shooting-at-downtown.html

One gunman was killed by Police. The others are now said to be held up in a nearby Cathedral. Police officials are now describing the incidents as a "terrrorist" attack. And this from the London Telegraph: The Karachi Post in Pakistan claimed that the attack was linked to a sentence in an honour killing case. It said the parents of Sadia Sheikh were sentenced on Monday when there had been a bomb alert in the court.

Instant-Jihad 'behavioral disorder' syndrome over an 'honor' killing court conviction? What about Nadine's murderous accomplices from the rooftops shooting with rifles at people below? Sort of looks like "terrorism" to me… And it took place at Belgian city's famous Christmas market? Sure smells like Jihad, but don't want to jump to conclusions… though, Belgium does have a few hundred troops in Afghanistan…

We'll see if this attack qualifies for the ROP count: http://thereligionofpeace.com/

Cross-post (Poker ;)

*********************

BoT -

Not sure whether in this phase it's best to use the British media as a news source. Better stay with the Belgians..

Sag

Your assumptions are completely baseless.

Coming soon to a theater (of operations) near you.
Dubya's assumptions were baseless too; somebody shoulda demanded citation,
About its contents, its Cause, its M.O., but Religion of Peace wuz the explanation.
Cuz the reality of Moslems is not baseless, it's just too scary and morbid to tell,
The Infidel, who must be protected from knowing what is coming: a nuclear hell.
- the Holy Prophet APF

Update 18:52 (local time): 2-year-old injured girl in critical condition.

Earlier reports about 2 more gunmen discredited.

The brutal attack in Luik (Liège) seems to have been used by "Karachi Post", with this Twitter User's best intentions put in place of objective journalism (which to me seems an oxymoron anyway). "Karachi Post" proudly takes note of the fact that he/she/it is "Quoted by all major news networks on liege attacks":

From this user's Twitter account, which seems to be the sole source of Karachi "news":

*************************

Karachi_Post Karachi_Post
@
@mehditek don't judge people mate.We had the best intentions in our heart.We have highlighted the evil practice of honor killing
33 minuten geleden

Karachi_Post
Our conscience is clear ,we had the right intention when we covered the attacks on #liege city.We highlighted an important issue #belgium
34 minuten geleden

Karachi_Post
We have used the #Liege incident to highlight the evil practice of Honor killings.We hope the messages is well received #karachi #Belgium
1 uur geleden

Karachi_Post
Pakistani women have been suffering the horrors of Honor killings,i don't want that evil to spread to European destinations #Liege #belgium
1 uur geleden

Karachi_Post
Our only motive was to highlight the evil of honor killing ,and stop it from spreading to European countries #Liege #Belgium #karachi
1 uur geleden

Karachi_Post
My efforts in high lighting the evil of honor killing has been successful and we have been picked by all major media outlets #Belgium #Liege
1 uur geleden

Karachi_Post
I appreciate the efforts of all media outlets including Washington post ,telegraph,UPI,Huffington post and others who gave my point of view
1 uur geleden

Karachi_Post
@bigroot_xpress Come on you are targeting us for nothing.We have spoken our mind ,and the media outlets have picked that up
1 uur geleden

Karachi_Post
Karachi post Quoted by all major news networks on #liege attacks including #pakistan #Karachi #belgium

*****************************

So much for Karachi Post, or so it seems..

Sag

Update 19:13 (local time): total number of wounded: 123 people, transferred to hospitals.

"Just when I try to get out, they pull me back in." --Michael Corleone. :)

"Someone might argue that Robert's eagerness or alacrity in reporting a breaking story could create for some people the negative impression that he is eager that it turn out to be a jihad story relevant to this blog. But the only way to avoid giving that negative impression would be to stop reporting breaking stories."

Don't quite agree with that, traeh---I think there is some middle ground between just rushing something to press or to stop printing breaking stories altogether. As winoceros said, Robert has always used his professional judgement to occasionally hold off on some stories until the evidence points to jihad or Islam. I just want to see that continue and for Robert's record to remain as strong as it is.

@ Gnaeus and fellow travellers

Naw, nothing to do with Islam, just another guy with 'behavioral disorder', like Obama says. Y'know, wink wink!

Glad he's dead, though!! Aren't you? :)

Update:

In an // official press conference //, Ms Daniele Reynders said about the attacker that he "never showed signs of any behavioral disorder".

One more instance of an ordinary innocuous "moderate" unsuspecting muslim murdering innocent men, women and children.
When an imported agricultural product is a carrier of a pest capable of hurting the food supply, sensibly a quarantine is created restricting the importation of that produce. When it is not possible to isolate the diseased individuals from those not potrentialy yet afflicted, it is imperative for the health, well-being and lives of a society to create at the very least a moratorium on what now a suicidal immigration policy.

isalm is at war with the west
I'm at war with isalm

Whether we tread carefully or not, calling this Jihadism or not, someone called Nordine Amrani, (which in fact is equal to Nureddin, Nur ad-Din, Nur Ud Din,...and other ways of writing it, this particular one being french, and having the same meaning Robert pointed out)had the audacity to throw grenades at innocent people visiting a Christmas market and shooting people with what has been reported as an assault rifle.

The man is therefore most likely

1) a Muslim from North Africa (as most of them in this country)
2) somebody that perpetrates violence on innocent people to air his grievances and is therefore
3) a terrorist

With freedom comes reponsibility to do no harm to others. Those that take no responsibility towards others and find it justified to such things, are terrorists, anyway !

Media consensus is that he can't be a terrorist because he is convicted for gun offensives.

---offenses

Hi!

I have seen on the Internet that the guy had at his residence a complete arsenal of weapons including combat weapons. Common! this Muslim guy wanted to kill and he was successful. He was also a drug dealer. Nice immigrant for Belgium. Belgium folks this is a wake-up call!

Robert, all the flack aside, it's a damned good thing you left that paragraph in about the possible honor killing connection, because it seems that everybody's scrubbing it out of their articles!

The Telegraph has removed that paragraph, but here you can see further evidence of its existence in that article:

http://www.ksml.fi/yhteiso/keskustelu/posts/list/42406.htm

Do a search for:

"The Karachi Post in Pakistan claimed that the attack was linked to a sentence in an honour killing case. It said the parents of Sadia Sheikh were sentenced on Monday when there had been a bomb alert in the court."

You will find in Google News an article from the Irish Independent comes up, but the paragraph is now missing:

http://www.independent.ie/world-news/europe/video-four-dead-and-74-injured-in-grenade-attack-on-belgian-christmas-shoppers-2962536.html

Ditto with this page doing a regular Google Search:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2011_Liege_bombings

Amrani is now being named as a "lone guman." How convenient - and it will have nothing to do with jihad, of course.

http://www.ibtimes.com/articles/266493/20111213/nordine-amrani-liege-belgium-attacker-9-500.htm

"Who is Nordine Amrani? Liege, Belgium Attacker Had 9,500 Gun Parts in 2008"

Why was this career criminal walking around? Were the authorities afraid of being accused of "racismbigotryIslamophobia?"

As always, expect more of the same, as the appeasement continues in full throttle.

Just some lone nutcase who lashed out for no apparent reason. Oh wait, the media will find all kinds of reasons OTHER than Islamic jihad, here as retribution for oppressing jihadists' "right" to murder girls and women. He's a just another "disgruntled Asian youth," obviously, even though he's 33 and Moroccan.

May be that there is a new angle on this attack.

Remember that Obama and his administration is currently training the American public about the politically correct viewpoint of these sad events.

Remember the Fort Hood killings? It is quite obvious that this disaster in Belgium is nothing more than "workplace violence".

I totally support Robert and the way he reported this story. I also support Undaunted 's defense of Robert.

If the attack was due to the "honor " killing , here's the info on it.
http://www.dawn.com/2011/12/13/pakistani-family-convicted-of-honour-killing-in-belgium.html

Maybe he was having a hard time getting laid and took the 72 virgin option.

What about Nadine's mosque? Did he go to one? Will there be a general condemnation during Friday prayers all over Belgium, that this killing of innocents on Christmas street was a heinous, barbarous act? Will they join arms with their non-Muslim Belgian fellow citizens in massive vocal demonstrations to show solidarity, that they are all Belgians opposed to this sort of senseless killing? Will the demonstrations eclipse the Mohammed cartoons massive turnouts? … Well? No response? Because the press quickly scrubbed the story clean of any association with Islam?… No? … Why not?

If this wasn't Jihad, then I want the Muslims to tell me. ... I'm waiting.... waiting...

Update:

Two more deadly victims: a 17-months-old baby, and on Tuesday - before the attack - the 45-year-old housekeeper of Nordine Amrani's neighbour. She was found when the house of Amrani was searched.

Sag

"Muslim Gunman in Belgium kills 5 and injures 122"


http://www.faithfreedom.org/features/news/muslim-gunman-in-belgium-kills-5-and-injures-122/

Officials have ruled out organised political terrorism but have yet to determine why he opened fire.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-16172662

As yet they dont have a clue why he should murder Christmas shoppers.

But though clueless they are sure it is not Islamic terrorism. It just cannot be that - impossible.

Authorities ruled out terrorism as a motive, saying he acted alone.

http://edition.cnn.com/2011/12/14/world/europe/belgium-attack/index.html?hpt=hp_t3

And of course a lone suicide grenade attacker, as everyone knows, who murders Christmas shoppers, cannot be an Islamic terrorist.

This will remain one of the great mysteries of our time.

That he belonged to the violent Islamic culture and Muslims are killing fellow humans everyday has of course got nothing to do with it.

Maybe he was inspired by the spirit of Christmas?

Don't you just feel so enriched by all these diverse immigrants? How lovely that they bring their customs, habits, morals, civilisation, beliefs & standards with them - how much better Europe is now! I would finish but I have to pop off down to the mosque as they have a bargain Christmas sale of grenades and machine guns - musn't miss the chance to replenish my stocks! Coming to a town near you - soon, if you just continue to sit on your apathetic backsides!

Islam is a 'war covenant' with Allah. It has no resemblance to anything in the Judeo-Christian Covenant with God, or secular western world's faith in Reason. Islam stands apart as a War Covenant. This colors all their thinking and actions. As I wrote on the 'creeping Sharia' thread:

"As we know, this is typical of an Islamic mindset, where to cross-check the Koran with facts is forbidden, as it is 'irrational' for them to seek the truth with reason; whereas it is totally 'logical' for them to cross-check inside the Koranic texts for the 'truth', even if absurd. Our two worlds could not be further apart "…

Same with this "Christmas story", it makes no sense to any reasoning mind, but total sense to Islamic thinking. He was feeling pressured by the police over his criminal drug activities, possibly human trafficking, pimping, who knows… and so for him to suddenly turn to his War-Covenant with Allah, with promise of Paradise, of course, it all fits into place. But Western authorities will be left scratching their heads as to what happened? How could he suddenly turn so violent for "no apparent reason"?… Why??!!

Well, read the book: ""Mohammed is God's apostle.  Those who follow him are ruthless
 to the unbelievers but merciful to one another"  Quran 48:29

Hugh Fitzgerald, at 'New English Review':

"The BBC Covers Two Stories Of Killings In European Cities"

http://www.newenglishreview.org/blog_direct_link.cfm/blog_id/39555

"Nordine Amrani Depicted As One Of Those 'Gun Freaks' A L'Americaine"

http://www.newenglishreview.org/blog_display.cfm/blog_id/39558

A bunch of unarmed Christmas shoppers—women, old people, children...

A Muslim criminal with a huge arsenal mowing them down...

How could that *possibly* have anything to do with Jihad? sarc/off

Thanks for the links Pellow.

More from UK's Daily Mail:

". . ."The 32-year-old convicted criminal, who was due to marry his long-term girlfriend"

". . .lawyer Jean-Francois Dister said Amrani, a Belgian from a Moroccan background, was on parole and was due to answer a summons about allegedly ‘sexually molesting’ a young woman.
He is thought to have attacked the unnamed victim after driving alongside her in his van. Its number plate was captured by CCTV.
One of Amrani’s numerous previous convictions was for rape, for which he had been given a two-year suspended sentence in 2003.
If convicted again for a sex crime, he would have had to serve it.
This would have also meant his girlfriend, a nurse called Perrin Balon, finding out about the sex allegations against him.
‘He feared being returned to prison,’said Mr Dister. ‘He called me twice on Monday afternoon and on Tuesday morning about it.
‘What worried him most was to be jailed again. According to my client it was a set-up by people who wanted to harm him. Mr Amrani had a grudge against the law.
'He thought he had been wrongfully convicted.’"

Repeat sex offender. Now why would anyone suspect this suspect of Moroccan descent's actions would be related to Islamic jihad?
Perhaps this rings a bell?
JW: Islamic Cleric misunderstands Islam, Issues fatwa permitting jihadis to kidnap, imprison and rape

Lan Astaslem.

Update:

The Belgian newspaper, "Het Laatste Nieuws" reports that the police "was ordered to leave Amrani alone". Consequently, this Muslim had ample time and quiet to re-amass weapons after his earlier conviction and to prepare for this terror attack.

Sag