In the U.S., Islamic spokesmen insist that the idea that non-Muslims must be offered conversion, subjugation or death (cf. Qur'an 9:29; Sahih Muslim 4294) is "Islamophobic" misunderstanding of Islam. Somehow Kirolos Andraws ran afoul of Islamophobic Misunderstanders of Islam in Egypt, where they appear to abound.
"Egypt's Embattled Christians Seek Room in America," by Lucette Lagnado in the Wall Street Journal, December 24 (thanks to all who sent this in):
Kirolos Andraws had every reason to be excited about the January uprising in his native Egypt, figuring democracy would bring hope for young people like him.Then one day in February, says Mr. Andraws, a gang of thugs beat him and told him, "you deserve to die." His offense, he says: refusing to convert to Islam.
In late March, Mr. Andraws, a 23-year- old engineer, used a tourist visa to board an Egyptair flight for New York City. He let a room in a friend's apartment, hired an immigration lawyer and applied for asylum. He has survived mainly on wages ...
The problem with large scale Christians from MI, is employment...The people who are already here are out of work...People crossing the southern border face the same employment problem...There are only so many landscaping and floor polishing jobs around...It used to be that you could go downtown and everyone was from around there, now, almost no one is from around there...And they all need jobs or go on public aid...Possibly Christian families that are financially capable and want to help, could sponsor a Christian family in need of escape...Give them a place to stay and help them get on their feet...That will not solve the problem, but all efforts in the right direction count...
This must be what it is like to be an astronomer looking at ancient light. It is said that someone on a distant planet now, looking at Earth, could see dinosaurs roaming the planet. Looking at posts like this story, I feel I am on another planet, watching Islam's spread from Medina in Mo's time. Same script, different era, location and characters. In this case, "history" could be altered. But that seems to be highly unlikely on a PC Earth that calls this kind of spreading of a religion "peaceful". Must be all that "no religious compulsion" in Islam I hear so much about.
It will never happen.
Hillary and Holder would NEVER give a favor to Christians. It's not in their agenda. They want Christians and Jews dead, and the sooner the better.......
Mark Steyn has a piece titled Silent Night on this topic. It is short and to the point.
Mark Steyn has a piece titled Silent Night on this topic.
Arab Spring has sprung: Infidels now widely regarded as awful dung.
Silent night, holy fright, this ain't right, ain't even rat, this ain't even a tit-for-tat,
It's a New Normal, albeit an older one, tough to sell, but it's somehow selling well,
Telling us it ain't symptomatic of Islam, but it seems automatic, them doing that,
New Normal sales job, watch out it could be a snow job, of Infidels going to hell.
- the Holy Prophet APF
Will America survive?.......Or will we just be the last to go?
Is america to weather the storm?.......Or are we just the fitest in a colloney of rats scurring for hightest point on a sinking ship?
I guess time will tell...........
(there's more)
God bless America!
Any large influx of immigrants is risky. Chances are, the Copts are likely to be among the most skilled immigrants. I don't see any particular hurdle to their becoming integrated into American society.
There is an added feature, however. The US is directly responsible for their plight. It was a US administration that toppled Saddam Hussein and systematically dismantled the apparatus of Iraqi government. Saddam Hussein had an interest in balancing the different segments of Iraq, and so protected the Christians.
As far as the unemployment problem, remember that people create jobs as well as consume them. Immigrants are more likely to start businesses than the average citizen. It is only in the socialist economies that employment is static, and everyone subsidizes everyone else.
The Copts, like all immigrants, should be thoroughly screened. Any immigrant caught in illegal activities should be deported, regardless of whatever horrors await him or her in his home country.
Incidentally, I can see big resistances in the US government to allowing in the Copts, because they are more likely to be conservative and to be in favor of enterprise, rather than welfare. Remember also, they are very aware of Islam and its dangers. I find Hindus from India to have similar characteristics: they buckle down, find jobs, support the US laws, and are quietly very aware of the dangers of Islam.
Sorry, we're full. We will do everything we can to help you in your own countries.
Lights please...
And there were in the same country shepherds abiding in the field, keeping watch over their flock by night. And, lo, the angel of the Lord came upon them, and the glory of the Lord shone round about them: and they were sore afraid. And the angel said unto them, Fear not: for, behold, I bring you good tidings of great joy, which shall be to all people. For unto you is born this day in the city of David a Savior, which is Christ the Lord. And this shall be a sign unto you; Ye shall find the babe wrapped in swaddling clothes, lying in a manger. And suddenly there was with the angel a multitude of the heavenly host praising God, and saying, Glory to God in the highest, and on earth peace, good will toward men.
Merry Christmas Robert
That is all. Thank you.
Sorry, we're full. We will do everything we can to help you in your own countries.
Lights please...
And there were in the same country shepherds abiding in the field, keeping watch over their flock by night. And, lo, the angel of the Lord came upon them, and the glory of the Lord shone round about them: and they were sore afraid. And the angel said unto them, Fear not: for, behold, I bring you good tidings of great joy, which shall be to all people. For unto you is born this day in the city of David a Savior, which is Christ the Lord. And this shall be a sign unto you; Ye shall find the babe wrapped in swaddling clothes, lying in a manger. And suddenly there was with the angel a multitude of the heavenly host praising God, and saying, Glory to God in the highest, and on earth peace, good will toward men.
Merry Christmas Robert
That is all. Thank you.
Endangered middle-eastern christians could swap places with frustrated sharia-loving western muslims.
Everybody happy :)
That would be wonderful, but only a dream. Even radical Muslims know where life is really better for them. And some of them, like Anjem Choudary in the UK, get such generous welfare benefits that they would be crazy to leave.
I must say, we have quite a few Copts around here, people who saw the problems in Egypt coming some years in advance and migrated to Europe for longer-term survival. They are good people, do not make problems for others, and their church, not so far away from where we live, has been an enrichment to our area. They are a very wounded people, and sometimes comes through in their characters, but they do give clear warnings to the rest of us Europeans, and for this reason, they are, alas, not mainstream and not taken seriously enough. I am strongly in favor of bringing in more.
The Christian community in the US would mobilize en masse to provide shelter and a foothold for Copts fleeing muslim persecution in Egypt. However, I can't imagine a large-scale immigration of Copts would be allowed by the Clinton/Hussein administration, dominated as they are by Saudi PAC money and the PC/leftist narrative.
Merry Christmas all.
A community of immigrants that are aware of the true nature of Islam, that speak Arabic and that could pass as muslims? I'd call that a godsend to the security and intelligence organisations of the west.
There was a young Christian woman who wrote a piece last spring on David Horowit's Frontpagemag.
Copts, secularists and Muslims were all protesting Egypt's President Mubarak arm in arm. The uprising in Egypt portended good things for Egypt's future.
She was convinced good things were in store for minorities like herself in Egypt because Mubarak was so bad and he was gone. "No," the Muslims were not going to take over and persecute Christians.
Readers tried to warn her. She engaged readers telling them / us, we were wrong; the uprising was a good thing and good would come from it.
Will America survive?.......Or will we just be the last to go?
The US might be the last Western nation to succumb to the Jihad, but China will long outlast it at this rate.
Think of the language skills the Copts would bring as immigrants. Literally hundreds could find employment at DoH and the CIA as translators of Arabic documents and audio. This way, we wouldn't be dependent on Muslim translators of dubious loyalty.
Yup.
Word on the potential usefulness of de-dhimmified Coptic Christian escapees from the Predator Pits of dar al Islam. (And of members of other similar groups, such as the Assyrian Christians. The Jews who fled Muslim countries, did not all settle in Israel; some came to the western world, where they have been severely underutilised by our foolish Authorities who *should* have grasped the opportunity with both hands. They too should have been hired as translators and agents, by the hundreds or even the thousands).
After all - it was Raymond Ibrahim, born and brought up in America by Coptic emigre parents who saw the writing on the wall and got out early, brought up speaking not only fluent English but *also* brought up to be fluent in Egyptian Arabic, who when working at the Library of Congress came across all the untranslated Arabic communiques of Al Qaeda, and translated them, and noticed the disconnect between what Al Q. said in English and what they said in Arabic 'in-house' to other Muslims, and produced "The Al Qaeda Reader', and has also produced a stream of other useful articles, including several on Taqiyya and Kitman which draw on Arabic-language Muslim sources that have never been translated into English.
Poster 'Michael', above, writing from Europe, wrote, of Coptic emigres - "They are good people, do not make problems for others, and their church, not so far away from where we live, has been an enrichment to our area."
It's exactly the same in Australia, where we now have a thriving Coptic community of some 80 to 100 000 people by now.
They work their tails off. They push their kids to learn and to achieve (I have observed that many of them seem to be connecting with our 'conservative' politicians, since in Australia our 'Liberal/ National' party is the party traditionally associated with small business). They assimilate - learn English, etc. Entirely on their own dime, from their own earnings (since after all their community back home in Egypt is struggling to survive and could hardly subsidise them) they have established schools, churches and monasteries - revelling in the fact that in Australia, at the moment, they can do so without any of the hassles they would suffer in Egypt. And these fit right into the Australian social landscape... they're no different in their social impact from the existing Jewish and Catholic and Anglican and Lutheran schools, churches and seminaries or religious houses. One of our universities which has a focus on the study of early Christian history, has established a School of Coptic Studies, since after all, pre-Islamic Christian Egypt made a HUGE contribution to early Christian theology and you can't really study early Christianity without drawing on the sources that underlie the Coptic church.
I'd be very happy if I could swap our dangerous, sullen, whingeing Muslim 'community' - now numbering possibly half a million - for the same number of Copts!
I'd like to see Australia stop taking in Muslims - whether as immigrants or as 'refugees' and 'asylum seekers' - and give those 'immigration' and 'refugee' places to Copts (and to Assyrian Christians).
Shoutout to any Copt reading this who has a chance of getting out of Egypt and coming to the free world - don't just try applying at the US or Canadian embassy, try applying to Australia as well, and keep trying. Pray, and pray, and make your applications.
All I say is this: the moment you get off Egyptian soil, leave Dhimmitude behind you. Don't make excuses for, or deny, what Muslims have done to you and your people in the name of Islam and in accord with the teachings of Islam. Once you get settled here, do your darndest to wake up our politicians and let them know just how ugly and dangerous Islam is - and how horribly cruel it is to non-Muslim minority groups - when it has control of a country.
One of the things many people do on the issue of Muslims and the impact of Islam as an ideology is to ignore data.
Recent Pew polls in Egypt do indicate that 80%+ people would be happy to have apostates murdered. 80%+ people would be happy to have adulterers stoned to death.
This is an extremist populace - no matter what happens - if allowed free choice, they will choose the evil of Sharia and Islamic ideology.
Ignore the data and you end up with surprises.
I think this is a good idea. I have a neighbor who is Coptic. They are a very nice family. Please read what these people are up against in the following book:
Satan's Trinity: Hitler, Stalin, Muhammad
By CH Martel.
http://www.amazon.com/Satans-Trinity-Hitler-Muhammad-ebook/dp/B0066AKYBS/ref=sr_1_fkmr0_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1324938712&sr=8-1-fkmr0
This book’s purpose is to help expose the fraudulent worldview known throughout the world as Islam. To do so I have used the assumed historical figure, Muhammad. Without Muhammad there is no Koran and without the Koran and Muhammad there can be no Islam. Muhammad, in a very real sense, is Islam.
Throughout the world the idea is that The Buddha, Jesus and Muhammad are preeminent religious or holy figures. In fact, founders of religions. At this time in history this assessment will cause little consternation for anyone. However, given the modern concept of religion and what it means to be a “holy person” this understanding is not true. This means the entire world has been scammed.
Factually, by his words and actions, as recorded in Islamic literature, including the Koran, there is little to distinguish among Muhammad, Hitler and Stalin. I believe this book represents the only book in history that includes these three personalities in the title.
Serial killers are an amorphous lot, difficult to categorize. There are rich ones and poor ones, smart ones and stupid ones, homosexuals and straights,males and some females, black ones and white ones. However, all serial killers share one latent trait... the absence of a conscience.
In high school I had a friend who was the son of Coptic immigrants. Shortly after 9/11 he told me that one could make a case that bin Laden's Islam was the true Islam. I was dismissive at the time, but as I read about Islam the more repulsive it seemed. Eventually, I learned about Muhammed's true character, and how the Qur'an is interpreted. Islam is a plague that, if it can be reformed at all, probably won't do so until it is a minority everywhere.
Like Brigitte Gabriel, the founder of Act for America and many others like her
pdxnag wrote:
Mark Steyn has a piece titled Silent Night on this topic. It is short and to the point.
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Thank you for posting that, pdxnag. As always, Mark Steyn is spot on.
I'd *love* to see America and the rest of the West throw open their doors to Copts—who are in need of *genuine asylum*—unlike Jihad-minded Muslims.
Ronald B wrote:
As far as the unemployment problem, remember that people create jobs as well as consume them. Immigrants are more likely to start businesses than the average citizen. It is only in the socialist economies that employment is static, and everyone subsidizes everyone else.
is short and to the point.
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I very much agree, Ronald. I doubt many Copts would be economic liabilities after they got on their feet. They tend to be well-educated—especially notable given the oppression they live under—hardworking, and generally law-abiding.
Whether they *will* be given asylum in significant numbers is—as so many have noted—very much a separate question. After all, we have large numbers of malingering, Shari'ah loving Muslims to accommodate first...