Truths about Islam and human rights that were too much for the Daily Kos

If possible, I don't know if some articles can be kept stickied on the sidebar, but I would love to see this remained up, instead of getting buried in a few days.

Once being on the left, I, like many other current liberals, only accepted and tolerated Islam due to ignorance, and only knowing of the white-washed version.

This is great eye-opening article that can help lead and wake many to the total truth of Islam.

I saw that coming.
"The truth is the new hate speech" anybody?

The following is as representative of most of the DK responses,

"go away and never come back (4+ / 0-)

In fact, do us all a favor and burn your computer. Better yet, give it to someone who'll do something worthwhile with it."

Earned a 4 rating which I take to be "good" by DK standards.

The public schools have done a stupendous job in dumbing down students. The point has been reached that these DK posters wouldn't even considering the facts as found in standard islamic texts. None of the material presented by Bell is made up; every bit of this chocolate & vanilla islamic theology.

DKers won't even consider reading the muslims' koran and the hadiths which will verify everything Bell puts forward.

Fortunately the vast majority do not live in a DK world of denial. Educating on islam continues to be our goal. Some will be reached. Bell is evidence that some can have their eyes opened.

Good grief, the comments at the Daily Kos to this excellent article seem to be by obnoxious and demented children. They have no relevance to to the content of article. These cretins have no capacity to grasp what Bell is trying to say. Bell has got to be glad to get away from such creatures.

i find it hard to believe that a journalist is just now learning that women and gays are persecuted and slaughtered in the name of islam. talk about having your head buried in the sand. does he not read anything but what is written in the daily kos? someone needs to tell this guy about google. and please introduce him to the late (can't say that without a lump :(..) great christopher hitchens

"Once being on the left, I, like many other current liberals, only accepted and tolerated Islam due to ignorance, and only knowing of the white-washed version."

Same here. 9/11 and the Mohammed cartoons woke me up. I am still fairly left on many issues and don't agree with some of the American right wing arguments that come up here.

This is what really gets me: what could be more extreme and fascist than fully applied sharia law? Why aren't leftists and feminists objecting to the islamification of Europe?

Jaded Jade -

I'm not sure if your comments are directed at me or not. I am not a journalist. I've actually read and kept up with probably everything Christopher Hitchens has had to say with regard to the tyranny of superstitious belief systems and Islam in particular.

Why haven't I had more sooner? My feeling was that I was trying to determine how serious the threat actually is - not just in print or in history, but how serious a threat to global security is the political system of Islam. As the Arab Spring has turned into the Islamist Winter, as perhaps many of you predicted as it was first going down, I have become increasingly more concerned with the growth of this tyrannical religious/political system and its move towards even more radicalization.

So, after writing over a hundred pieces for DKOS, I decided to use the platform to hold a mirror up to those who traffic that site. And judging by the comments section there and my being banned as a contributed, I would say the results are in.

I am not advocating hatred of Muslims - I think that this probably goes without saying here - but I do feel strongly that Islam (synonymous with "radical Islam") now more than ever poses an enormous threat to the human rights and personal safety to people all over the world, and the trend does not look good moving forward. That is, unless we can educate ourselves and others to this politically incorrect reality before the Islamic McCarthyism makes it a "hate crime" to even present these facts publicly at all.

Peace,

Eric Allen Bell

And here I was under the impression that those on "the Left" are, generally-speaking, so intellectually superior. However the comments section to Bell's article pretty much demolishes any such assumptions.

But YOU, Robert, would do well do avoid any phrases such as "the Left is simply not interested in standing up for the human rights of the victims of jihad."... I do believe that this post is about one such person on "the Left" - Eric Allen Bell. Is he also "not interested in standing up for the human rights of the victims of jihad."?

Apart from the obvious contradiction to the previous sentence ("I have always maintained that resistance to the jihad and Islamic supremacism is not a Left/Right issue") - is it worth risking losing potential supporters on "the Left" - many of whom may also be badly-needed "intellectual heavyweights" who have had to perform a lot of mental gymnastics, as well as risk losing many friends, to come to politically-incorrect conclusions about Islam and Jihad?

This is on of those rare articles that synthesizes the whole problem of the ideology of Islam. But unfortunately, Mr Bell's critics are gripped by 'country of the blind' syndrome.

The 'liberal-left' march blindly on, blinded by hate, and blind to the plain truth that is everywhere in the world to see. Mr Bell's 20/20 vision is lost on these people.

Education is the key to curing this widespread malady; but it is a race between effecting a cure and Islam exerting such a hold that it is too late.

We can not afford to lose this contest. Our freedoms are at stake!

A person seeking enlightenment must treat the study of Islam -- and PCisms -- just as they would calculus. You sign up for class with trepidation and fear but ultimately emerge with a few more analytical tools and perhaps a little more self-confidence.

It takes work to slay superstition and ignorance. The Peter Principle might help to describe the maximum level of analytical competence of a typical Kos poster, always incompetent but unable to see it. Those who gain competence have only one choice -- escape.

I trust that most JW posters (freedom lovers) are escapees from some sort of constipating dogma.

I think the Islam-critics, though still considered by many to be the underdogs, are winning the war of ideas, a helluva spiritual battle.

Bell's clarion from within the heart of the anti-anti-jihadist camp reminds me of the recent trumpet blast from somewhere within the Kuwaiti royal family: a prince announces he's converted to Christianity; is it just a rumor?

Meanwhile, David Goldman, a.k.a Spengler, suggests only 20% of Iranians are still Muslims.

Someone who has influenced me quite a bit is J. Krishnamurti. And one thing he said in particular that has really shaped much of my approach to understanding myself and the world is that "the nature of intelligence is inquiry. Once inquiry ceases, intelligence ceases".

Conclusions are best used as stepping stones toward a deeper and deeper examination of reality. But it is clearly not wise to drop anchor in the land of conclusions.

More to be revealed...

Eric Allen Bell

The first problem is that the people at the Daily Kos have never lived anywhere else than a Westernized country. so they tend to think that everywhere is more or less like where they live.

The second problem is that they have imbibed the Enlightenment notion that there are only three real classes of analysis-Race, Class and Gender. Any other category is disolvable into one of these. Thefrore religious conflicts really aren't and can't be about religion.

the third problem is that they take the Enlightenment way of looking at rleigion that was shaped through the lens of Protestant/Catholic Europe. While there are different varieties, they all have the same core values aiming at the Good. This is then expanded to all religions so that all religions differ in outward cultural rites but express the same aims and have the same values. This is a model unfortunately not grounded in fact. Like most Americans, they are rleigious illiterates and know very little about the history of religion in general, let alone Islam.

worth another read.......
WHY WE MUST FIGHT PISSLAM
by Davis Vic on Sunday, November 27, 2011 at 2:19pm
Here is why we must have all muslims taken away from the USA.
Again: this is not about hatred, it is about surviving!
When our enemy is using a coalition of forces against you, you run to God and you take your weapons out and you fight. You will never be victorious if you go to battle thinking that you should impose the least amount of pain. You go in thinking in obliterating the enemy. here is what they are warning us and they say not even the warn will prepare us to face them:
ISLAM IS AN EVIL CULT - THEY ARE HERE AND WE THE PEOPLE HAVE A PROBLEM !

Read this warning from a former Muslim..(.website: Islam Rules!)
WARNING FROM A FORMER MUSLIM

I was born and raised as Muslim. My whole family is still Muslim. I know every genetic code of Muslim. I know Islamic brain. I live and breath with them. I am an insider. I left Islam when I understood that Islam is a sick and evil religion. The following are the Islamic message to the West.

To the infidels of the West:

The Constitution for the new Islamic Republics of EuroArabia and AmerIslamia is under construction.

We will fight the infidel to death.

- Meanwhile American laws will protect us.
- Democrats and Leftist will support us.
- N.G.O.s will legitimize us.
- C.A.I.R. will incubate us.
- The A.C.L.U. will empower us.
- Western Universities will educate us.
- Mosques will shelter us
- O.P.E.C. will finance us
- Hollywood will love us.
- Kofi Annan and most of the United Nations will cover our asses.

Our children will immigrate from Pakistan, Egypt, Saudi Arabia, Iran, and Indonesia and even from India to the US and to the other Western countries. They will go to the West for education in full scholarship. America is paying and will continue to pay for our children’s educations and their upbringing in state funded Islamic schools.

We will use your welfare system. Our children will also send money home while they are preparing for Jihad.

We will take the advantage of American kindness, gullibility, and compassion. When time comes, we will stab them in the back. We will say one thing on the camera and teach another thing to our children at home. We will give subliminal messages to our children to uphold Islam at any cost. Our children in America will always care more about Islamic Country’s interest than US interest.

We will teach our children Islamic supremacy from the very childhood. We will teach them not to compromise with Infidel. Once we do that from the very early age our children won’t hesitate to be martyr. We will take over the Europe first and then US will be the next. We already have a solid ground in the UK, Holland, Sweden, Spain, Italy, Germany, and now in the US.

Our children will marry Caucasian in Europe and in America. We will mixed with intricate fabric of the Western society but still will remember to Jihad when time comes. Who are we?

We are the “sleeper cells”.

We will raise our children to be loyal to Islam and Mohammad only. Everything else is secondary.

At the time of the real fight we will hold our own children as our armor. When American or Israeli troops shoot at us the world will be watching. Imagine,… Imagine the news in the world “Death of Muslim babies by infidels”.

We know CNN, ABC, CBS are broadcasting live. Al-Jazeera will pour gasoline on the fire. The news will spread like wildfire. “Americans killed 6 babies, 10 babies”. “Jews killed two women”,

Keep your Nukes in your curio cabinets. Keep your aircraft carrier or high-tech weaponry in the showcase. You can't use them against us because of your own higher moral standard. We will take the advantage of your higher moral standard and use it against you. We won’t hesitate to use our children as suicide bomber against you.

Visualize the news flash all over the world, …Moslem mother is sobbing, ….crying. ….Her babies are killed by Jews and Americans, the whole world is watching live. Hundreds of millions of Muslims all around the world are boiling. They will march through Europe. We will use our women to produce more babies who will in turn be used as armor/shield. Our babies are the gift from Allah for Jihad.

West manufactures their tanks in the factory. We will manufacture our military force by natural means, by producing more babies. That is the way it is cheaper.

You infidels at this site cannot defeat us. We are 1.2 billion. We will double again. Do you have enough bullets to kill us?

On the camera:

- We will always say, “Islam is the religion of Peace.”
- We will say, “Jihad is actually inner Jihad.”
- Moderate Muslim will say there is no link between Islam and Terrorism and the
West will believe it because the West is so gullible.
- Moderate Muslim all over the world will incubate Jihadist by their talk by defending Islam.
- Using Western Legal system we will assert our Sharia Laws, slowly but surely.
- We will increase in number. We will double again.

You will be impressed when you meet a moderate Muslim personally. As your next-door neighbor, coworker, student, teacher, engineer, professionals you may even like us. You will find us well mannered, polite, humble that will make you say, “wow, Muslims are good and peaceful people”, But, we will stab you in your back when you are sleeping as we did on 911.

There will be more 911 in Europe and in America. We will say, “We do not support terrorism but America got what it deserved.”

Muslims, CAIR, ISNA, MPAC and other international Islamic Organization will unite. We will partner with Leftist, ACLU, with Koffi Annan, and the UN, and if we have to then even with France. Fasten your seatbelt. The war of civilizations has just begun.

We will recite Quran and say Allah-Hu-Akbar before beheading infidels, as we have been doing it. We will video tape those and send it to all infidels to watch. They will surrender - ISLAM means surrender.

We will use your own values of kindness against you.

You are destined to lose.

Must be very depressing for you. Isn’t it?

Allah-Hu-Akbar
as we say just before beheading.

21st Century Islamic Warfare: Muslims Vs. the West
- Let's see the effectiveness of Islamic warfare -

THE RULE HAS CHANGED. There is new game in town.

Bill Clinton ordered 50 Tomahawks Cruise missiles costing $100,000,000 each to destroy $50 mud houses that belonged to Osama's family. What a stupidity? What a poor ROI (Return On Investment)! And then Bush went into Iraq!

In return Osama's attack on the US.
Cost: 19 martyrs and less than $500,000.
Cost to the West: over 3,000 dead.

At least $1,000,000,000,000 (one trillion) dollars economical loss in one year. This includes the ripple effect.

Osama's ROI with respect to: life = 3,000/19 = 158 fold.
Dollar = $1 tr./500K = 2,000,000 fold

That is modern warfare. The West will lose.

Allah-Hu-Akbar

Islam will rule the world. There is nothing you can do. Even if the per capita GDP of the world drops to half of its present level as a consequence of Islamic laws in place all over the world but still Islam will rule the word.

From your point of view we bring to the world to the dark ages, so be it. But still Islam wins, West loses.

Are you sure you want to play this game?

Jihad, ..Jihad...Jeeehaaad...

You are destined to lose.

Allah-Hu-Akbar

Saudi Arabia's $100 billion investment over the last 3 decades on over 60 thousands Madrassas and school all over the Islamic world is finally paying off. While the West was busy inventing medicine, increasing life expectancy, elevating human suffering, decoding human gene to find cure for Cancer, heart disease etc, launching space shuttle, inventing internet, working on new laws/theory for human rights, developing better economical models for a more prosperous world, While ACLU was gaining control over common sense, while American ingenuity was benefiting the rest of the world, we Muslims were busy producing over 200 million out of 1.4 billion, Walking, Talking, Non-Thinking, West-Hating, Pre-Programmed, Suicidal, Parasitic, Terrorist Robots. You can't win. The Genie is out of the bottle.

We will use American’s kindness, fairness, compassion, freedom of speech and non-discriminatory policy against them. We will stab them in the back.

What are you going to do? You are doomed. ..

Wildflowers Jones -

I could not possibly disagree more strongly with the idea that all of the Muslims must be removed from America.

A Muslim is a human being. Islam is a religious/political doctrine. There are not the same thing.

A human being whose mind houses bad ideas is capable of being transformed.

And if those human beings will bad ideas are not transformed, then what we are doing here, which is to inform, brings with it the possibility of neutralizing or minimizing the threat.

We must never become the thing we object to. It is critical that we respect the human rights of others in our stand against Islam or else we have lost the moral high ground.

Peace,

Eric Allen Bell

What I am thinking, due to my lifelong experience with leftist people is that I see some sort of a triangle in respect to Islam and them; 1. Leftists. 2. Islam. 3. Capitalists-US Government-Military Industrial Complex-Israel-other Western scapegoats.

And it seemed to me thus far that the leftists were more against nr 3 than against nr 2. And that they even exonerated and shielded nr 2 from criticism because they were MORE against nr 3.

It seemed to me that they judged nr 3 with much higher standards than nr 2. And they told me why too; it was something about "noblesse oblige" or about that the Western and Israeli people were more civilized and had more power and because of that it was justified that they should be judged by higher standards.

But I in reaction thought and said to them that they were using double standards and that seemed highly unjust and hypocritical to me.

And my reaction in my own thinking was the resolve that I would see the distinction between A. democratic societies, most concerned with human rights too and B. dictatorial societies and organisations and religions and that I always would prefer and support A over B when the 2 were in opposition.

And that I only after that distinction was made would judge inside the democratic societies who was better or worse than whom.

And it is my hope that more and more leftists become like Eric Allen Bell with his fantastic attitude shown here. Meaning that it is OK for them to criticize everybody inside democratic societies they like but that they first and foremost try to protect and expand the full democratic system, with the full human rights.

CGW -

"Kudos, Bell.

Have you read much of Ali Sina's (apostate from islam) work?

May I ask why you post from Facebook instead of logging in to post under your own name?

Keep up the good work! I hope you realize what an honor it is to have Spencer publish your work here."

Thanks. I logged in using my FB account, which is fan page so that is probably why only the URL is posted and not my name. I'll see what I can do about that.

No, I have not read anything by Ali Sina but that does sound interesting and perhaps I will check it out.

Thanks for the support and encouragement. Spencer's work initially presented me with some real curve balls in terms of how I would prefer to perceive certain things, but upon further research I have come to find that there is much merit in so much of what he's saying. I continue to investigate Islam, why people are drawn to it and more importantly what I can do to inform others and possibly free those who are in bondage to such a system.

To get a better idea of where I'm coming from, if you're interested, check out http://www.GlobalOne.TV

I am considering adding a section for people who are struggling with or recovering from deep religious indoctrination.

- Eric

Dear Mr. Bell:

Welcome to Jihad Watch. I hope that you will start writing for JW.

If it is any consolation, you are now in the company of George Orwell, Christopher Hitchens, David Horowitz, Ayaan Hirsi Ali, Ibn Warraq, Ali Sina, Salman Rushdie, Taslima Nasrin, Charles Winecoff, Bruce Bawer, Sam Harris, David Mamet, Melanie Phillips, V.S. Naipaul and Phyllis Chesler.

I recommend that you immediately read:

The True Believer by Eric Hoffer
The Reliance of the Traveller (a classic sharia law text) by Ahmad ibn Naqib al-Misri
What Went Wrong?: The Clash Between Islam and Modernity in the Middle East by Bernard Lewis
The Crisis of Islam: Holy War and Unholy Terror by Bernard Lewis

It goes without saying that you should read everything by Mr. Spencer, Mr. Fitzgerald and everyone else who writes for JW.

I also suggest that you visit Memri.org and do a little browsing.

It also wouldn't hurt to browse Daniel Pipe's, Martin Kramer's and Pat Condell's websites.

If you keep speaking out, be prepared to be mocked, demonized and threatened. You will soon find out the meaning of intolerance.

Good luck.

I guess that I shouldn't be surprised by the responses of the DK'ers. They are just defending their narrowly carved out turf.

But, I will never understand how a group of people can tell you exactly what they believe, show you a book that lays out what they believe, and then consistently act in the manner that matches said belief system. But somehow some people don't understand.

I too, think that the vast majority of Muslims are good people despite what they are taught. But even if 1% take the teachings how Old Mo meant them, that's 16 million very dangerous individuals. I think that it's much higher.

To not acknowledge it is sheer stupidity or willful ignorance.

Dear Eric Allen Bell,
I salute you for your courage and willingness to open your eyes to see the truth beyond the propaganda. Thank you for speaking out, I am sad to say that you will now be radioactive, shunned, by your fellow liberals, but I do believe that your message will reach some people who truly are "liberal" in the old sense of the word and may help open up some eyes to what truly is a grave human rights issue.

I see people at KOS are already screaming "islamophobebigot" at you, as they do with anyone who tells the truth about the violence and oppression which is mandated by islam's own 'holy' texts, but I hope that this experience will show that just as you are not a monster, neither are most of us in the counter-jihad; we are just regular people who did the research and learned the same thing you are learning now. I am not a monster (and neither is Pamela Geller or Robert Spencer), I am a mom. I have Pakistani muslim relatives who I dearly love and I worry for their safety and well being.

I do not hate muslims, I do not hate anybody, but I am saddened and horrified by the misery islam has wrought all over the world for 1400 years, and it has brought such misery to muslims as much as it has to non-muslims as you are now learning.

Islam has as its core goal, domination over ALL, and that includes liberals who are being used by islamic supremacists to further goals that will ultimately destroy the very people who aid and abet them now. Such as it is always with those who ignorantly offer themselves up as tools for totalitarians, these people are helping to engineer their own destruction. They will not like what will happen if the islamic supremacist goal is realized, I wish there were a way to make them understand that, but they are so filled with hatred for anyone who does not think exactly as they do that even when one of their own, such as yourself, tries to sound the warning that person is cast aside into the lot with the rest of us, to be the subject of scorn and ridicule by people who choose not to know any better.

I am sorry that you are learning this the hard way, but I hope that you will persevere with your learning and continue to reach out to your fellow liberals, because while we may disagree politically, this is bigger than politics as it threatens the very existence of us all.

Thank you again for your courage, Eric, may you be blessed and stay strong. The road ahead will not be easy for you, but it is well worth traveling. Good luck.

The lefties hate for anyone to bring up facts that prove their big lie, that all cultures are equal. It's the foundation of their multicultural deluded vision.

Krazy Kafir -

Indeed most human beings hate for anyone to bring up facts that disprove their big lie ;)

- Eric

that's my response and should be everyone's response ''That is sad and heartbreaking and I am outraged that anyone would follow this person. I am willing to speak out against these and any other injustices in the world today''
big greetings from Coptic christian,so glad you joined the resistance and spoke about it

I would like to co-opt some of the Leftists but that would be only possible if they weren't such hypocrites. Can we agree that the political spectrum has one thing in common: the pursuit of a just society? We fight out the particulars in the democratic arena. A defintion of a just society will vary widely but bedrock components would be the equality of the sexes and a live and let live attitude towards gays. Which brings us to Islam. They would probably argue that they too are pursuing a just society. Kick the perverted bastards out.

The Left, taken in the aggregate, has been a major obstacle over the past decade in getting the truth out about Islam (denying this is, invoking Thomas Jefferson here, to deny a self-evident truth), but obstacles can be overcome far more easily than monsters. The monster in this saga is Islam. It is arguably the most well-diguised form of evil in man's history. It is also the most long-lived of any totalitarian ideology in the history of man.

And so any reservations I have about modern leftism, and they are many, pale in comparison to the reservations I have about the monstrously wicked religion which goes by the name of Islam. In short, I welcome all on the Left to a fight which all those who cherish liberty, whether liberal, moderate or conservative, need to fight in order to insure that freedom doesn't die. Obstacles are one thing. Monsters are quite another.

Mr Bell.

Skit: RESIST ALLAH’s ARMY (RAA)
Two men have just come out of a bar and are shaking hands.
RUMP: See ya on the weekend. Take care.
MUTT: Yep, Resist Allah’s Army.
RUMP: Whatever… Look, you always say that. What about this religion of peace?
MUTT: Duh!
RUMP: OK man, (squirming) my hemorrhoids are killing me. Give me the ABC and make it fast.
MUTT: A is for apostasy. Leave Islam and they kill you—that’s desertion and treason in face of the enemy during war. B for blasphemy gets you death—challenging the chain of godly command. C for conquest—all infidels must be killed or dhimmified, hence the sentence for A and B. Now get going before you bleed to death.
They walk off in opposite directions. Rump stops and turns around.
RUMP: (yelling) Muuuutt!!!
Mutt stops and turns around.
RUMP:I get it!!!
MUTT: Yo!!!
RUMP: Resist Allah’s Army!!!
MUTT: RAA!!! RAA!!! RAA!!!

The new romantics are the CounterDevolutionaries.

Support the CounterDevolution!

Tom Davis -

Thanks. I do have a website that has reached about 23 million visitors so far, however the concentration has been on the expansion of consciousness - both individual and collective.

http://www.GlobalOne.TV

That said, I am considering adding a section for those who are dealing with breaking free of religious tyranny and brainwash.

I also have a smaller personal blog at:

http://www.EricAllenBell.org

And I just launched (but haven't done much with it yet):

http://www.OccupyAmerica.TV

And lastly you can look at a documentary I made on liberty and religious fanaticism within America (this will not go over well with everyone here) at:

http://www.NotWelcomeDocumentary.com

Thanks :)

Eric

Here is a useful post: My Journey Toward Islamoawareness

To Eric Allen Bell,

Just as I predicted on the previous thread that you'd be banned from DK with another offering about Islam, I make another prediction:

As your views on Islam evolve through education, your identification with liberalism and liberals will similarly evolve...until that day in the not-too-distant future when you will no longer consider yourself one.

Cornellius -

"To Eric Allen Bell,

Just as I predicted on the previous thread that you'd be banned from DK with another offering about Islam, I make another prediction:

As your views on Islam evolve through education, your identification with liberalism and liberals will similarly evolve...until that day in the not-too-distant future when you will no longer consider yourself one."

Funny you should say that. I don't quite fit into either traditional camp already. My alignment with Left became more cemented as the country become polarized over the Iraq war - something I opposed and continue to oppose very strongly. Support for that war seemed to be split along party lines.

I voted for Obama because I felt that McCain was to erratic and beligerant to be President and I was concerned he would have us in a war with Iran in no time. That said, Obama has been a profound disappointment. I started saying this a year ago and taking a lot heat for it then. Now many Liberals are disillusioned with Obama and have found more of a home in the Occupy Movement.

When I have been on Conservative radio I'm introduced as a Liberal. On DKOS and entire article was written by a Muslim attacking me as "Right Wing".

I don't know where I really fit into the political spectrum because I don't see the world through that lens.

Anything "Liberal" about me is only in contrast to what has become of the Conservative movement. Although I am pro-life, the preoccupation with opposing gay rights, with supporting the wars, the witch hunt over Obama's birth certificate and the general mean-spirited deception I see on Fox "News" has caused me to stay clear of that world.

However, I do feel that we should have as little government as possible and with it as much personal freedom as possible - within reasonable limits. But I probably don't really have the right credentials to be a real Liberal by most standards.

The R vs D thing is designed to keep us distracted and confused and fighting with each other over petty matters so that we do not unite in dialogue around how screwed we are getting by a system of Plutocracy - one that is based on war profiteering and mounting debt.

This is why I strongly support OCCUPY and look for ways to bridge the gap.

Peace,

Eric

Great. Well done Mr Bell, don't worry too much about the childish flak-flingers, read 'Reliance of the Traveller, The Classic Manual of Sacred Islamic Law' a book of conduct accepted as 'correct' in islam, the real islam behind the veil of tricks and lies presented by today's controlled media. If you watch the Middle Eastern tv clips on Memri you will find that the 'Reliance' book is pretty much how things are over there, and over everywhere else if we don't wake up fast. And re-read Zilla's post above, as always she puts it very well.

TRANSCRIPT FROM COMMENTS of an article smearing me on IslamophobiaToday.com :

http://www.islamophobiatoday.com/2012/01/19/eric-allen-bell-chooses-to-retain-%E2%80%9Cridiculous-prejudice%E2%80%9D/

"Salam alaykum waramatulahi wabaraketuh,

I have proof that Eric Allen Bell is an “agent provocateur” if you want it. Hint? He gets federal money each year for one. Check his taxes. I was disappointed but not surprised when I found this out.

Seems like even now he is playing both sides against a middle agenda. Again, disappointed but not surprised.

Hasbi Allahu wa neeam al wakee’l…

//Mitchell Williams via Facebook

AND HERE IS THE EDITOR'S RESPONSE:

20 January 2012 at 11:45 am
@Mitchell, please email us at info@islamophobiatoday.com

//Americans Against Islamophobia via Facebook
20 January 2012 at 4:28 pm

FINALLY HERE IS WHAT I HAD POSTED IN RESPONSE:

Eric Allen Bell here -

Mitchell Williams posted that I am an “agent provacatuer”. Funny, is this the same Mitchell Williams who currently resides in Saudi Arabia with his wife, both from America? The mosque in Murfreesboro, TN had to contact the FBI on this man for making violent threats against its members. If anyone in the journalistic community doubts this, call the Islamic Center of Murfreesboro for a confirmation.

Is this the same Mitchell Williams who also threatened me? I have kept a record of your threats on my Facebook page from about a year ago.

I suppose it goes without saying that I do not work for the government, receive no Federal funds and I am assuming that my tax records are not available to the general public.

The truth is less far out than that. I made the documentary because I believed and still believe that the Islamic Center in Murfreesboro has a legal right to build and that the Islamic community there is peaceful.

Nearly every Muslim I have ever met is peaceful. That is not what concerns me. What concerns me is Islam itself and generally speak much of its leadership.

Peace,

Eric"

Kudos, Mr. Bell and welcome to the new enlightenment. We are dealing with ideology not people, but people do follow ideology, sometimes with very grave consequences. I have attempted to gain traction with legislative actions to stop sharia creep in America, seeking to stop the ideology from playing out. The House Anti-Terrorism Caucus has the full "Citizens' Declaration of Threat and Plea for Relief" but here are just the action items:

1. That political Islam and Sharia law be officially recognized by the federal government as threats to the United States, the Constitution, and American culture and institutions.

2. That Title 18 USC “Chapter 115: Treason, Sedition and Subversive Activities,” including incarceration, deportation or execution, be fully utilized as duly appropriate for advancing Sharia law, advocating or acting to implement jihad or other acts detrimental to security.

3. That Department of State programs, policies, training and relationships be evaluated for their compatibility with national security, and amended accordingly.

4. That foreign aid to Islamic nations cease and aid to nations influenced by Islam be severely curtailed, except to resist jihad.

5. That participation in the United Nations be reassessed based on human rights, security and relevancy.

6. That the courts and law enforcement be trained to recognize Sharia law, Muslim Brotherhood activities and the manifestations of jihad; and that jihad crime statistics made available.

7. That immigration reforms immediately be implemented to include a suspension of immigration by Muslims for not less than 20 years, exclusive of apostates seeking asylum.

8. That all prospective immigrants be characterized for their compatibility with the United States Constitution and be required to pledge an oath of allegiance, with violators deported.

9. That visa applicants be rejected for seditious history, or intent or association with jihad and that any foreign visitors exhibiting seditious behavior be arrested and/or deported.

10. That no Sharia-compliant finance be adopted for any government financing; that any private financial institutions must fully disclose any Sharia-compliant activities.

11. That our borders be secured by means of physical barriers, patrols and military actions as necessary to repulse illegal entrants.

12. That the legacy of jihad be subject to critical analysis in public and military education.

13. That no foreign influence or advocacy be tolerated in public school textbooks or materials.

14. That no foreign ownership be allowed of any media that purports to provide news services.

15. That no public monies or services shall be dispensed to encourage social separation in courts, schools, hospitals or other public or private places.

16. That any mosque violating its religious standing be reclassified as political in nature and subject to tax laws and if deemed appropriate other civil and criminal laws.

17. That any mosque found to engage in political organizing, allow or encourage incitement to violence, subversion or jihad be closed for not less than 2 years, and permanently for a second such finding.

18. That no additional mosques be allowed until Islamic countries reciprocate in international relations, freedom of religion and houses of worship, and social equality.

Continued Appeasement, Accommodation and Hopeful Assimilation is Political & Cultural Suicide.
http://civilusdefendus.wordpress.com/civil-defense/citizens-declaration-of-threat-plea-for-relief/

See, this is why being a Liberal is much like trying to be a sacrificial altruist and being an objectivist (Rand) at the same time; it's self contradiction at its best.

Personally I don't give a **** about the so-called downtrodden, oppressed Muslims. It is NOT the job of the western world to cave in to their demands. And if Muslims hate the western world so much I suggest they physically leave this hemisphere and move back to Riyadh.

Civilus -

"18. That no additional mosques be allowed until Islamic countries reciprocate in international relations, freedom of religion and houses of worship, and social equality."

WOW - Bad idea. Since certain Islamic countries do not recognize religious pluralism, we should not either? We should retaliate by stooping to their level? It's easy to see who will win that war of ideas and it won't be Democratic Values.

To respond to tyranny with tyranny, history has shown us over and over and over, is generally a bad idea.

OUR LIBERAL VALUES:
Should include:
Objecting to the mistreatment of women.
Objecting to the mistreatment of homosexuals
Objecting to torture.
Objecting to false imprisonment.
Valuing individual autonomy.
Objecting to human rights abuses.
Supporting Democratic values.
so - WHO ARE YOU, REALLY?
.....................................

Hear, hear!

I was not at all surprised to see the same challenges and ad hominem attacks thrown at Mr. Bell by DKOS posters that probably everyone here who has been subjected to for posting facts about Islam at any of the "left" leaning sites.

"You should read the entire Koran."
"Have you read the Qur'an in its original language or in translation?"

The usual nonsense from apologists who would have us believe that they know more about Islam than Ayman al Zawahari, al Qaradawi, the Turkish Prime Minister Erdogan and others too numerous to list (or the thankfully 'late' UBL and al Awlaki).

It's laughable to be told that Islam is understood in many ways by more than a bilion people around the world; except that those who take Islam's teachings literally--for they have "hijacked the religion of peace" and are obviously "unIslamic".

Here's a link for Bell. Not really well written, but worth a visit:
http://apostatesofislam.com/

Although many here see things in a black and white "left vs right" manner, there aren't a lot of Republicans who "get it" about Islam, either.

I'd really like to know how Romney, McCain, Santorum, and others came up with phrase like "radical Islamist jihadist".

And how about that all encompassing cover it all phrase that got us into war/nation building excercises in Muslim nations that will never, ever, ever eliminate the Shari'a from their respective constitutions: The War On Terror.

Other than Santorum, has any Republican called that crap crap?

And, yes, Bell, there still remain a number of folks here who think we should deport every Muslim--even the native born. I can't begin to tell you how stupid I think that is!

Muslims are here! And we have to deal with that issue by doing exactly what you're doing--pointing out what Islam really teaches. Yes, even those peacefull Muslims know that the "divine" punishment for theft is the amputation of the thief's hand(s) and that apostasy really is the punishment for apostasy.

One other point to make:

There is no such thing as "radical" Islam.

There is Islam, as it's written.

The phrase you're searching for is Orthodox Islam; which is not the Islam of that thankfully now defunct Learning Channel program "All American Muslims".

O.K., two points:
Where is this "mainstream" Islam we hear so much about? Kansas City or Kandahar? Minneapolis or Mogadishu? Grand Rapids or Grozny?

I enjoyed your DKOS posts.

Well, a warm welcome to Eric Bell, even if I'm one for whom the existence of God is quite intuitive (per comments made on the eariler posting, when Mr. Bell joined us), and for whom Krishnamurti is little more than a name connected to those of Blavatsky and Besant (for whom I don't really care).

But, to continue the conversation started back there, I'd urge Eric to consider that those Southern Evangelicals in Murfreesboro weren't so much ignorant as shaped by an older consensus about what America is and was. The 19th century jurisprudence of the US Supreme Court was bracketed by ideas such as the following:

"I verily believe Christianity necessary to the support of civil society. One of the beautiful boasts of our municipal jurisprudence is that Christianity is a part of the Common Law... There never has been a period in which the Common Law did not recognize Christianity as lying its foundations." Joseph Story [Commentaries on the Constitution of the United States p. 593]

And, in the majority opinion in Church of the Holy Trinity v. US (from the 1890's), Chief Justice Brewer stated that America was a "Christian nation" in that its laws presuppose the Christian faith (and before dismissing Brewer as a primitive bigot, he probably would've joined Harlan's dissent in Plessy v. Ferguson, had not the need to bury a recently deceased daughter not called him away from the bench that time).

Granted, these views do not support any idea that the USA was founded as a confessional state such as were found in Europe. But they do reflect the more historically sensitive mind of an era that could recognize that the moral culture of men like Paine and Jefferson rested on Christian foundations far more than those men would have been willing to admit.

This being said, I will readily agree that it was a tragedy to see neighbor turned against neighbor in Murfreesboro, with so many unaware that their Muslim neighbors had gone to the FBI with information on a badmash or two--but, then again, the FBI protects its sources. And I will grant that post 9/11 emotion may have gotten the better of people. As someone who had received kindly treatment at Muslim hands (and, for the record, I am a Christian of partly Jewish heritage) and who has worshipped alongside ex-Muslims, I have often called for cooler responses to Jihadist provocations--and certainly don't join calls for mass deportations (although a more effective and streamlined process in individual cases wouldn't be a bad idea).

Yet, having also understood the nationalisms of much of the non-Western world (my best reading second language is Chinese, and I have a fair amount of spoken Thai), I think I can also understand the anger of my own post-9/11 countrymen, even when I disapprove of it and believe that more constructive courses of action could be taken.

EZ Rider -

"It should not be the responsibility of American citizens to un-brainwash human beings."

You do realize of course that America is a country where nearly everyone is brainwashed from the time of birth, right?

For each and every one of us, being able to observe our conditioned mind, to catch it in the act of mindlessly obeying indoctrination and then to change is a radical and revolutionary act in and of itself.

True intelligence, by its very nature questions everything and seeks to discover the truth always.

Is there a father who art in heaven who is going to bless America and smite say Turkey?

Our so-called system of "education" keeps the population dumbed down and incapable of critical thinking. Millions of non-Muslim Americans subscribe to some kind of magical thinking rooted in ancient superstition in order to provide them with comfort and inspiration. And a good many of those people get very mad if you even question it.

Most of us are so brainwashed that we think that in war there is actually a winner and a loser.

We are taught to believe that there is this finish line called "happiness" and another one called "success" and in the pursuit of these intangible concepts millions of Americans are hooked on anti-depressants which the system tells us are good for us. We are told that the failure to fit into a mentally ill society is a sign of mental illness.

I could go on, but I think you get the point. I would agree that in many ways the Islamic brainwashing is far worse. But let us not forget our own collective huge blind spot.

America is deeply corrupt, broke, addicted to debt and war hungry. It's not too late to change, but we must change because in many ways the way in which we are living now is simply unsustainable.

- Eric

#18 was not original, but borrowed from posts at Gates of Vienna, possibly by Fjordman and others, to address the violence and non-integration of islam in Europe. Your designation of this action to curb the spread of the enemy ideology (sharia, inextricably linked to doctrinal islam) within our borders as "tyranny" is troubling. If 80% of mosques spread 'radicalism' as some report, is it not possible this is actually good idea to support Lady Liberty and encourage democracy? As we have seen the spread of 'sharia democracy' in Egypt and elsewhere is hardly supportive of the human spirit or human rights.

That said, we desperately need greater public awareness on this issue and I commend you for your articles. Both pressure from informed citizens and legislative approaches are needed to end sharia in America. Whether islam can survive without sharia is not my interest; America can only survive without it.

Excellent quiz. You really hit on some key issues as they relate to islam & company. Thank you.

Seems the truth is too hot to handle over at Daily Koz, so you must consider it an honor to have been banned.

Wellington -

There is not much basis for you and I to have a conversation as long as you are mesmerized by the media manipulation that says that there is a left and a right in America that means anything at all. There is only one prominent political ideology that has power and influence and all media outlets bow to it - and that is Corporatism. The rest is smoke and mirrors.

I'm not so sure you are willing to see through the fog. I'm a person, not a liberal or a conservative.

As to the Fox "News" question - when you do come around to seeing through the fog it will become clear that just like CNN or MSNBC, Fox "News" is in the divide and conquer business. Their "news" is nearly entirely editorial and rarely focuses on the big picture. They keep you distracted and it works. It's always worked, for as long as the nobility has been around looking for ways to keep the masses from rising up against them should they ever discover what a raw deal they are actually getting and from who.

Something tells me that everything I have said here thus far will get filtered through your perception in such a way that you can dismiss it as more liberal gibberish. I would encourage you, challenge you to look deeper.

- Eric

Champ -

Yes, it is an honor to be no longer one of the KOZby kids ;)

That said, I have written to the editors requesting an explanation, pointing out that I have not violated any of the terms of service and requesting that I be reinstated. On the very off chance that they let me back in, I will pick up where I left off.

They loved me when I was talking about "Occupy":

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2011/11/05/1033394/-REGIME-CHANGE

Peace,

Eric

Truthiocity -

At DKOS there is a rating system and its very likely that my articles on Islam received so many negative ratings that the system went into "autoban" mode, or so it has been explained to me.

I've written to the editors explaining that I have not violated any of the terms. We'll see what happens but I'm not holding my breath.

Those who commented on these articles are exactly like Obama in a way - declaring themselves to be concerned with the welfare of others but in fact only concerned with fitting in to their peer group.

In Obama's case that peer group is clearly Goldman Sachs where he has probably received the "employee of the year award" for the third year in a row.

It is my view that this country is in desperate need of a very strong voice of dissent. Sadly the Liberal crowd tends to think of themselves in this way when in fact they are merely supporting a crumbling empire and calling this "The Change We Need".

Truthiocity -

At DKOS there is a rating system and its very likely that my articles on Islam received so many negative ratings that the system went into "autoban" mode, or so it has been explained to me.

I've written to the editors explaining that I have not violated any of the terms. We'll see what happens but I'm not holding my breath.

Those who commented on these articles are exactly like Obama in a way - declaring themselves to be concerned with the welfare of others but in fact only concerned with fitting in to their peer group.

In Obama's case that peer group is clearly Goldman Sachs where he has probably received the "employee of the year award" for the third year in a row.

It is my view that this country is in desperate need of a very strong voice of dissent. Sadly the Liberal crowd tends to think of themselves in this way when in fact they are merely supporting a crumbling empire and calling this "The Change We Need".

If the Mormons advocated what Islam does, that faith would be mocked, excoriated, debased, derided, and trashed non-stop by the same people who dare not discuss the dismal dogmas of Mohammad.

It wouldn't just be the current easy pop derision shown by the hit Broadway "musical" mocking Mormonism, but would be a fullbore flamethrowing Juggernaut of cultural condemnation and destruction of such a vile "cult".

If Southern Baptists proclaimed what Islam does, they would be villifed and lambasted 24/7 on every media outlet in the land.

However, when Islam touts malignant. intolerant, misogynistic, totalitarian, theocratic terroristic piffle, the entire pseudo-liberal world suddenly metamorphosizes (in a chimaerical combo of Aristophanes and Kafka) into a Nation of Crickets.

The chirping is deafening.

And the silence, even more so.

Demsci -

"Perhaps a demand can be made to Muslims that they should split and a part of them should live up to full democratic standards."

Such a division already exists. Nearly every Muslim I have met or interviewed (but not all) does live up to full Democratic standards.

OOPS, BIG CORRECTION:

I meant to say "nearly every AMERICAN Muslim..."

Hello Eric!

Thanks for the good article. Just a couple of points on it. Contrary to your claim, I do not believe Mohammed personally beheaded hundreds of people. His followers always or nearly always did the dirty work. I think the number of people slain by Mohammed personally can be counted on one hand. I have read quite a bit about Mo, but if you have any evidence to the contrary on this, please let me know.

Concerning Aisha, her age is given in lunar years, so at the time of her violation, her age in solar years might have been only eight. Since lunar years are 11-12 days shorter than solar years, nine lunar years are at least 99 days shorter than nine solar years. There is a little more than a 27% chance that Aisha was eight when Mo abused her. Second the three year interval between the marriage and the consummation may be explained by Aisha becoming ill and losing her hair (Bukhari,5:58:234), which is a symptom of undergoing emotional stress, possibly resulting from marriage with a man over 50. I consider it likely that Mo would have violated her three years earlier if this illness had not postponed it. Aisha's remaining childless may have been due to injuries to her reproductive organs, which can happen when children are sexually active before reaching adequate maturity.

All the best in your further researches and writings.

Yes, some classically brain-dead comments under that piece at DK, by people who have clearly never read one single word of the Koran, Sira, or Hadiths, or never will. They obviously 'get' their Islam from the NYT or The Guardian. Or most of the MSM, for that matter.

As someone who is liberal on many issues and a former member of Democratic Underground, I believe that it is important to point out to liberals that appeasement is making the leaders of Islam more aggressive, and it will ultimately lead to war. If we are going to avoid global war we need to muster some courage…individually and collectively. We must speak openly and honestly about Islam. It isn’t necessary or advisable to use military action against Islam; we just have to shine a light on Islam, and we can avoid war. We must convince political and media leaders that they have an obligation to read the Koran themselves. One thing we learn from reading the Koran is how pathetic a religion Islam is…how pathetic the idea that Mohammed was a messenger of god. Islam cannot survive honest evaluation and that’s why the thugs who control Islam will not allow honest evaluation, and that is exactly the way to defeat them. (Unless we’ve already past the point of no return and events in the Middle East suggest that we may have.)

The battle against Islam in the U.S. will be won or lost in the Congress, which needs to declare a moratorium on Muslim immigration, and pass the Winslow Amendment to the U.S. Constitution: "Congress shall have the power to make laws restricting the free exercise of religions other than
Christianity and Judaism, including but not limited to Islam."

To personally fight Islam, step #1 is to recognize that it's a global conspiracy. Step #2 is to learn about the modern Muslim World including all key orgs. and personalities, so that you can track them in the daily news.

Where can you do this for free in your browser? The Historyscoper's new Muslimscope, the most concentrated learning tool available:

http://tinyurl.com/muslimscope

A few quick comments:

The misconception that OCCUPY is a Leftist movement is absurd. There are a great many people involved in that movement who feel that the root of the problem is Statism or at least an over-sized government. The MSM shows you kids with pierced noses, pissed off about the repayment of their student loans and demanding that the rich be taxed more. But I can assure as someone who has been very involved with the movement from the beginning that the Socialists are a fringe within the movement and there are a great many Ron Paul supporters, Libertarians and traditional conservatives. The Conservatives are largely disillusioned with the Tea Party since it was quickly co-opted by Rupert Murdoch and the Koch Brothers - or so the perception goes.

What makes this movement, the anti-Jihad movement repugnant to those on the left is that a vocal minority within have their voices heard loud and clear. This would be the people who want all Muslims rounded up. Liberal-minded people see this as a hate group when they feel that all Muslims are being painted with the same brush. I don't feel it is a hate group or I wouldn't be here, but clearly there are some hiding out here who do take this too far.

As someone else pointed out the other day, if I hate say Communism it does not mean I hate all Chinese people. Nor do I imagine wrongly that all Chinese people support the oppressive system they suffer under. The same can be said of Iran for instance. The appropriate response in my view is a combination of compassion and caution, but clearly not demonetization.

- Eric

MY SPELL CHECKER...yeah:

I said "demonetization" when I meant to say demonization.

;)

TL Winslow -

"The battle against Islam in the U.S. will be won or lost in the Congress, which needs to declare a moratorium on Muslim immigration, and pass the Winslow Amendment to the U.S. Constitution: "Congress shall have the power to make laws restricting the free exercise of religions other than
Christianity and Judaism, including but not limited to Islam."

It's bad ideas like that which give too much power to the government, which will abuse the power and/or be incompetent with it, that only fuel the perception that the anti-jihad movement is "fascist".

"Our way or the highway" is not how America works. American citizens have the right to have bad ideas, ridiculous beliefs and there cannot be any preference shown toward one religion over another.

The execution of the plan you outlined above will destroy our liberties in the process and introduce more of a totalitarian element to the US Government. We don't need more of that.

Did you ever see the Pink Panther cartoon where he destroys his entire house while trying to get rid of a single fly?

- Eric

The surprise is only that it took this long for KOS to ban him.

Recall KOS insists the Christian right is the American equivalent of the Taliban.

So, who is this guy Bell and how come he didn't toe the party line at KOS?

Was he a GOP, conservative, or Christian right plant to begin with?

Just asking.

(Full disclosure: I am a Democrat who will vote for Obama again this November.)

Gaius -

No, I am not GOP, or Christian or any of that. I dislike both political parties actually since, all theories about what they stand for aside, in actual practice they both report to the same money interests. Judging the parties by speeches given or who votes for them is a distraction. What do they do and who do they get their money from? That tells all. America operates under a system of Plutocracy.

Although I would not refer to the Christian Right as the American Taliban (except maybe in jest) I do feel that the radical Evangelical element within it does present some very serious threats to our freedoms and that their obsession with the "end times" is something that is manipulated to manufacture consent for the bombing of oil rich Islamic countries.

KDOS tolerated me because of numerous articles I wrote concerning OCCUPY. When I posted the articles on Islam, it seems none of the readers bothered to read them, in spite of the hundreds of comments. They are clearly programmed to blurt out the word "Islamophobia" on cue whenever they see the slightest criticism of Islam.

As for your last comment about voting of Obama - it's really no different than if GWB was getting a 4th term. It's all smoke and mirrors. Good luck with that.

Peace,

Eric

What do Muslims believe nowadays? Some polling data for consideration:

http://www.worldpublicopinion.org/pipa/pdf/feb09/STARTII_Feb09_quaire.pdf
Majority of Muslims worldwide want a strict application of sharia law, and to unify Islamic countries under a single caliphate.

http://www.environicsinstitute.org/PDF-MuslimsandMulticulturalisminCanada-LiftingtheVeil.pdf
Canada: The majority of Canadian Muslims [53%] believe Sharia law should be
recognized as a legal basis for settling family disputes
but the population at large [Non-Muslims; 79%] disagrees
page 36. 34% of Muslims say it should not

http://www.jihadwatch.org/dhimmiwatch/archives/001493.php
59% of Muslims in Detroit Michigan sample “strongly agree” that sharia should be implemented in Muslim countries.
"The Detroit Mosque Study: Muslim Views on Policy and Religion," by Ihsan Bagby of the Institute for Social Policy Understanding
http://www.ispu.org/pdfs/385_Detroit%20Mosque%20Study%20Ihsan%20Bagby.pdf
http://www.ispu.org/GetReports/35/1904/Publications.aspx

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2006/08/14/opinion/main1893879.shtml
Many British Muslims Put Islam First
NRO: Survey Shows Many Are More Loyal To Fellow Muslims Outside U.K.
Aug. 14, 2006 Patrick Basham
78% of Muslims in the U.K. want the Muhammad cartoonists to be criminally prosecuted and punished.

Living Apart Together: British Muslims and the Paradox of Multiculturalism.
http://www.policyexchange.org.uk/assets/Living_Apart_Together_text.pdf
Authors: Munira Mirza, Abi Senthilkumaran, and Zein Ja’far.
Organization: Policy Exchange, a U.K. think tank.
From Table 1 on page 47.
“The following is a list of laws that are defined in most scholarly interpretations of sharia law. Please say if you personally agree or disagree with the law mentioned”

“That a Muslim woman may not marry a non-Muslim.” 51% Agree, 43% disagree, 5% don’t know/refused.

“That a Muslim woman may not marry without the consent of her guardian.” 43% Agree, 51% disagree, 5% don’t know/ refused.

“That a Muslim male may have up to 4 wives, and a Muslim female is allowed only one husband.” 46% Agree, 48% disagree, 6% don’t know/ refused.

“That Muslim conversion is forbidden and punishable by death.” Agree 31%, disagree 57%, don’t know/ refused 12%. (Note. Agree 36-37% among 16-34 year-olds; Agree 19% for those aged 45+)

“That homosexuality is wrong and should be illegal.” 61% agree, 30% disagree, 9% don’t know/ refused.

Most Muslims in Egypt, Jordan, Pakistan, and Nigeria want the death penalty for apostasy
http://pewglobal.org/2010/12/02/muslims-around-the-world-divided-on-hamas-and-hezbollah/
“When asked about the death penalty for those who leave the Muslim religion, at least three-quarters of Muslims in Jordan (86%), Egypt (84%) and Pakistan (76%) say they would favor making it the law; in Nigeria, 51% of Muslims favor and 46% oppose it. In contrast, Muslims in Lebanon {favour = 6%}, Turkey {favour = 5%}, and Indonesia {favour = 30%} largely reject the notion that harsh punishments should be the law in their countries.” {brackets added} also see results for stoning of adulterers, cutting hand of thief.
http://pewglobal.org/files/2010/12/Pew-Global-Attitudes-Muslim-Report-FINAL-December-2-2010.pdf

“About eight-in-ten Muslims in Egypt and Pakistan (82% each) endorse the stoning of people who commit adultery; 70% of Muslims in Jordan and 56% of Nigerian Muslims share this view. Muslims in Pakistan and Egypt are also the most supportive of whippings and cutting off of hands for crimes like theft and robbery; 82% in Pakistan and 77% in Egypt favor making this type of punishment the law in their countries, as do 65% of Muslims in Nigeria and 58% in Jordan.
When asked about the death penalty for those who leave the Muslim religion, at least three-quarters of Muslims in Jordan (86%), Egypt (84%) and Pakistan (76%) say they would favor making it the law; in Nigeria, 51% of Muslims favor and 46% oppose it. In contrast, Muslims in Lebanon, Turkey and Indonesia largely reject the notion that harsh punishments should be the law in their countries. About three-quarters of Turkish and Lebanese Muslims oppose the stoning of people who commit adultery (77% and 76%, respectively), as does a narrower majority (55%) of Muslims in Indonesia.”

July 31 2010
Most African Muslims want sharia, think Caliphate will be set up within their lifetime
http://pewforum.org/executive-summary-islam-and-christianity-in-sub-saharan-africa.aspx
PEW polls of religion in Africa, Islam and Christianity

http://pewforum.org/uploadedFiles/Topics/Belief_and_Practices/sub-saharan-africa-chapter-5.pdf
a median of 30% of Muslims think apostates should be put to death

http://pewforum.org/uploadedFiles/Topics/Belief_and_Practices/sub-saharan-africa-executive-summary.pdf
-across the African countries surveyed, a median of 63% of Muslims wanted sharia to be the official law of the land.
-about a third favor stoning for adultery
-at least half of Muslims believe women should be required (not allowed to decide) to wear a veil

You might get similar reactions from American Christians about, say, prosecuting the artist who gave us Piss Christ, or re-criminalizing homosexuality.

But I don't foresee any beheadings, though.

Kinana -

Thank you for the many great links with so much valuable information.

Surprisingly DKOS has kept my articles regarding Islam up on their site even though I have been banned as a contributor.

I have not given up (stubbornly perhaps) in reaching out to the editors to make my case that this issue is not about hatred by about the protection of human rights and thus discussion and healthy debate should be permitted, even encouraged within the Liberal community.

I have asked to have my status reinstated and, on the very off chance that it is, I will continue as I have to write articles on a range of subjects pertaining to freedom from tyranny, whether self-imposed or imposed by an outside force including but not limited to political Islam.

Peace,

Eric

Giaus -

"You might get similar reactions from American Christians about, say, prosecuting the artist who gave us Piss Christ, or re-criminalizing homosexuality.

But I don't foresee any beheadings, though."

America is evolving while the Islamic world - very generally speaking - is becoming more radicalized.

Piss Christ was not banned and there were no riots, no bombing of embassies, no burning of flags, etc. There was a demand that such artistic projects not receive Federal funding as it was unfair to require people to fund works of art that they find offensive, using their tax dollars.

As for the re-criminalizing of homosexuality, that won't happen. Full equality is moving along at light speed and there is no stopping the equality movement now, no matter what Pat Roberson says.

My feeling is that we can get rid of all affirmative action laws and many civil rights laws now as well. America has evolved and in order to maintain our evolution we should be looking for ways to shink the size of government and provide as much autonomy and persona responsibility to each and every citizen so that we can grow as individuals with the training wheels placed on our destiny by a parental government figure removed.

- Eric

Who is this person who did all the beheading, torturing and copulating within a young girl ?

Surely he has no connection with the RELIGION OF PEACE...
HE must have been a Jew, or Christiam, or Hindu, or Sikh or Buddhist

Dowse -

Sorry to hear that simple word association has so much power over your psyche ;)

Look ma, I've made "Anti-Loon" and "Loon at Large" twice in my lifetime:

http://www.loonwatch.com/2012/01/eric-allen-bell-dumped-by-daily-kos-for-being-a-bigot/

For those of you who frequent those alternative-ideation websites, has anyone ever successfully explained how relating facts, both historical and otherwise, makes one a bigot? It would seem that they are postulating that knowledge is in fact bigotry, whereas ignorance is not. Any takers?

Hey you Americans.

This Newt Gingrich guy - support him. He can defeat Obama. He's intelligent. He's good for America and he is good for the World.

Anyone listened to this great speech in which he replied to a CAIR man who asked him if he would support a Muslim President for America?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=ZVnBN_JTLy4

Newt Gingrich " "A truly modern person who happened to worship Allah would not be a threat. A person who belonged to any kind of belief in Sharia, any kind of effort to impose that on the rest of us, would be a mortal threat."

“I am totally opposed to Sharia law being accepted by any court n the United States and I favor a federal law that pre-empts it and says Sharia law will not be used in any court.”

He takes apart Saudi Arabia not allowing Jews and Christians to worship there while promoting Mosques elsewhere, that crimes against women in Turkey have gone up 1700% since Sharia has been more implemented, Israels right to defend itself, and Hamas stating that it wanted to destroy Israel.

This guys a whiz.

Newt Gingrich " "A truly modern person who happened to worship Allah would not be a threat. A person who belonged to any kind of belief in Sharia, any kind of effort to impose that on the rest of us, would be a mortal threat."

“I am totally opposed to Sharia law being accepted by any court n the United States and I favor a federal law that pre-empts it and says Sharia law will not be used in any court.”

He takes apart Saudi Arabia not allowing Jews and Christians to worship there while promoting Mosques elsewhere, that crimes against women in Turkey have gone up 1700% since Sharia has been more implemented, Israels right to defend itself, and Hamas stating that it wanted to destroy Israel.

This guys a whiz.

That he has a muslim "friend" working on "modernizing" Islam does not mean that Gingrich believes it can be done.

Many moderate Muslims believe that - I personally dont.

I also disagree that voting for ABO (Anyone But Obama), is a good policy.

Yes Obama should go - it would be a tragedy if he were re-elected, but the replacement should be clued up and know where to go. And also where not to go.

This guy has it all. A genuine intellectual not a pseudo-intellectual (or possibly fraudulent one) like Obama.

I asked him about that, so we'll see if he responds. You're right, he may not believe it personally.

I want the best anti-islam candidate we can get, but I'd vote for any of them (with the exception of Paul) before I'd vote for Obama.

Eric Allen Bell Chooses to Retain “Ridiculous Prejudice” - updated 1/23/12

http://theamericanmuslim.org/tam.php/features/articles/eric-allen-bell/0018981

Green Infidel--

I don't know what Wildflower Jones would want, but I have some of my own ideas:

When the First Lipovian Tatars immigrated to the USA and opened their mosque, the Muslim population of the USA was miniscule.

Be aware that there are Muslims who are genuinely bothered by the behaviors of their co-religionists. Accept such people.

Don't automatically smear everyone as pro-terrorist simply because he was born to Muslim parents. I know Hui, Uighur, Circassian, and other immigrants in these United States who are sincerely grateful to the USA, Kufrs and all, for having given them refuge and new lives.

Abandon the self-defeating enterprise of trying to police the Muslim conscience from the outside by arrogantly labeling so-and-so as 'moderate" and What's-his-name as "fundamentalist". Social Democratic jurists and journalists who are proud of their ignorance of what their own Christian or Jewish grandparents believed and who can't tell you if Deuteronomy is in the Old or New Testament look utterly ridiculous when they try to pontificate on what Islam really stands for. I, for one, am deathly embarrassed to be an American and a Westerner when I hear such people open their mouths to bloviate.

If your'e a Christian, have a little confidence in God the Holy Spirit and know your own faith, starting with the Scriptures of the Old and New Testaments. Support a church that isn't ashamed of the Gospel of Christ as the power of God to salvation for everyone who believes, for the Jew first and also the Greek (the very words of Paul the Apostle--Romans 1:16). There are ex-Muslims out there, and they're showing up in church. Believe it or not, some of them are showing up because they're disgusted with things like 9/11. The Caner Brothers, Nonie Darwish, Nabeel Qureshi, Rifqa Bary, Youcef Nadarkhani, and numerous others are far from isolated cases in this day and age. Above all, pray for your Muslim neighbors.

But, as for the practical politics, fight tooth and nail to ensure that you keep your right to freedom of speech, press, peaceable assembly and petition for the redress of grievances, and free exercise of your non-Muslim religion. We probably need to organize and fund a bit of anti-jihadist "lawfare" of our own, even up to and including the impeachment of judges and elected offficials who are surrendering the Constitutional rights they were supposedly sworn to uphold simply in order to appear "open-minded" and "tolerant".

Further, don't be afraid to have people label you "loon" or "bigot". Speak out.

Dear Eric,

The political views that I hold are, I think, a balance between those of Social Liberalism and those of Classical Liberalism. The existential view that I hold, and the existential and moral path of practice that I strive to follow, is Theravada Buddhism. My ethnicity is Jewish (Jewish-Russia(Ukrainian)-Polish). I, too, am pro-Life, although I didn't used to be so. I now understand that to intentionally kill any living being is extremely harmful and is wrong. I, too, opposed the Iraq war, and I, too, view the Iraq war as having been a big harmful mistake.

I used to consider myself to be politically, what I now refer to as, so-called "Liberal" - I used to take for granted that I was, what I now refer to as, so-called "Liberal". However, within the past ten years, after I saw certain things happening within the past approximately ten years, and after I, within the past approximately ten years, subsequently became aware of very many things that I had not been aware of prior to then, I began to no longer considered myself to "be" politically so-called "Liberal". I no longer consider myself to be "Liberal". However, I also do not consider myself to be "Conservative".

I don't have the wherewithal right now to express much of my understanding of the situation in the world. However the following is a synopsis of the core central aspect of the current situation in the world.

In the 1930's, the following untrue narrative was widely propagated in Western societies, and was widely believed in Western societies: "The Evil Powerful Deceitful Jews secretly control the world and are mongering for war against the Maligned Beatific Noble Germans who are honorably redeveloping their nation."

At the current time, the following untrue narrative is being widely propagated in Western societies, and is being widely believed in Western societies: "The Evil Powerful Deceitful Jews secretly control the world and are persecuting the Wronged Beatific 'Palestinian' Arabs who are being justly avenged by the Noble Savage Muslim Warriors."

History has not been taught. Therefore history is not known. Therefore, history is repeating itself.

The following are links to some information about the situation that existed in the world in the 1930's and to some information about the situation that is existing in the world at the current time.

----

The 1930's:

Harvard's Nazi Ties, by American Jewish academic scholar Stephen H. Norwood
http://www.wymaninstitute.org/articles/2004-11-harvard.php

Are We Reliving the 1930s? - How West European Philosemites became Antisemites before the Second World War, by Israeli Jewish academic scholar Simcha Epstein (Video)
http://www.jcpa.org/JCPA/Templates/showpage.asp?DBID=1&LNGID=1&TMID=723&FID=799&PID=0

----

The current time:

Antisemitism in America – Yale Kills YIISA, by German academic scholar Clemens Heni
http://clemensheni.wordpress.com/2011/06/08/yale-kills-yiisa/

Johann von Leers and Walt/Mearsheimer, by Clemens Heni
http://clemensheni.wordpress.com/2011/01/21/johann-von-leers-and-waltmearsheimer/

Mainstreaming Hate - How media companies are using the Internet to make anti-Semitism respectable, by Lee Smith
http://www.tabletmag.com/news-and-politics/40064/mainstreaming-hate/

The Arab Lobby, by American political analyst Lee Smith
http://www.tabletmag.com/news-and-politics/44096/the-arab-lobby/

Anti-Semitism 2.0, by 'Palestinian' Arab academic scholar and writer Mudar Zahran, who is from Jordan, and who currently resides in the UK as a political refugee
http://www.hudson-ny.org/1979/anti-semitism-20

----

Fatah-PLO-PalestinianAuthority in Their Own Words, and the Origin of the 'Palestinian Movement':

O Fatah Official States the Real Goal of the Illegal Fatah-PLO-PA 'Palestinian'-Arab-State U.N. Bid - Fatah Central Committee Member Abbas Zaki Says: "The Greater Goal Cannot Be Accomplished in One Go", Al-Jazeera TV Arabic (Qatar), September 23, 2011 (Video)

O Mahmoud Abbas States His View about Recognizing Israel as the Jewish State, and States His Intentions Regarding the Arab Refugees from the 1948 Muslim Arab Attack on Israel (The Refugees Whose Still Living Members, and Whose Descendants, Are Now Called the 'Palestinian' Refugees); Ramallah, August 27, 2011 (Video)

O Haj Amin al-Husseini - A member of the Arab aristocratic Husseini family; The most prominent, most influential, Muslim leader in the Muslim world during the 1920's, 1930's, and 1940's; The founder of the 'Palestinian movement'; Organizer of Arab anti-Jewish massacres in the British Mandate of Palestine from 1920 to the late 1930's; Appointed to the position of Grand Mufti of Jerusalem by British officials in 1921; An early leader of the Muslim Brotherhood; Resident of Germany from 1941 to 1945; Nazi official; Co-architect of the Nazi 'Final Solution'; Coordinator of the 1948 Muslim Arab attack on Israel by the armies of several Arab states as the head of the Arab Higher Committee; The mentor of, and an uncle of, Egyptian-born Yasser Arafat (Mohammed Yasser Abdel Rahman Abdel Raouf Arafat al-Qudwa al-Husseini) (Video)

http://danielbielak.blogspot.com/2011/09/fatah-central-committee-member-abbas.html

----

Israel - A Brief Summary of the History of the Situation
http://danielbielak.blogspot.com/2011/03/israel-brief-summary-of-history-of_17.html

----

Why and How the West Is, with Lies, Vilifying Israel (includes a presentation of the similarity between the 1930's and the current time)
http://danielbielak.blogspot.com/2011/03/why-west-is-vilifying-israel-excerpts.html

----

The belief that Jewish people are evil and that Jewish people secretly control the world is an ancient culturally Christian-European racist anti-Jewish wrong view that was most recently most prominently propagated in the early 1900's by the European fictional book "The Protocols of the Elders of Zion" and, subsequently, by Adolf Hitler and his National Socialist (tionalsoZIalistische (Nazi)) Party. Adolf Hitler, in his book Mein Kampf (which means "My Struggle"), referred to "The Protocols of the Elders of Zion", and, in his book Mein Kampf, propagated the racist genocidally anti-Jewish beliefs propagated in the book "The Protocols of the Elders of Zion".

One of the main reasons that those wrong beliefs are now being widely propagated in the West again - albeit in a more sophisticated form - is the following.

Very many Jewish people (especially, and particularly, very many Ashkenazi Jewish people) are experiencing, to various degrees, and very many Jewish people (and almost all Ashkenazi Jewish people), for, many hundreds of years, have experienced, to various degrees, a deep profound form of Stockholm syndrome - a detrimental delusional unwholesome state of mind. I, in the past, experienced this detrimental delusional unwholesome state of mind to a certain degree.

In experiencing this detrimental delusional unwholesome state of mind, Jewish people do the following things.

O Many Jewish people (and almost all Ashkenazi Jewish people), accept, to various degrees, false accusations that are made against themselves, or against other Jewish people, by non-Jewish people who are attacking them.

O Jewish people who are not completely delusional, and who try to verbally defend themselves who are being attacked and falsely accused, and who try to verbally defend other Jewish people who are being attacked and falsely accused, are psychologically overwhelmed and are, as a result of that, not able to clearly communicate the reality of the situation.

O Some Jewish people - Jewish people who are experiencing extremely severe forms of this unwholesome state of mind - are fervent propagators of, and are the most influential propagators of, lies that vilify the Jewish people who are being attacked and falsely accused.

This deep profound form of Stockholm Syndrome - this detrimental delusional unwholesome state of mind - is constituted by the following factors.

O Deep fear of being hated, for being a member of the vilified pariah scapegoated ethnic and cultural social group of which oneself is a member, by people who are not members of the vilified pariah scapegoated ethnic and cultural social group of which oneself is a member

O Egocentrism (in which one thinks: "I am so moral")

O Exceeding empathy for others

O Resultant immoral wrong empathy (empathy with (not wise compassion for, nor wise equanimity toward, but rather, empathy with) people who are profoundly ignorant, and who hate, and who are holding evil malicious wrong views about the ethnic and cultural social group of which oneself is a member, and who, as a result of that, hate the ethnic and cultural social group of which oneself is a member, and who are attacking, and as part of that, falsely accusing, the ethnic and cultural social group of which oneself is a member)

O Resultant malice (malice toward the members of the ethnic and cultural social group of which oneself is a member and who are being attacked by, and, as part of that, falsely accused by, people who are profoundly ignorant, and who hold evil malicious wrong views about the ethnic and cultural social group of which oneself is a member, and who, as a result of that, hate the ethnic and cultural social group of which oneself is a member)

A prominent historical example of a Jewish person who was experiencing this deep profound form of Stockholm syndrome to a severe degree was Theobald of Cambridge, who was an ethnically Jewish man who was a Christian convert who lived in England in the 1100's, and who was the inventor of the murder-and-cannibalism-of-Christian-European-children libel ("The Blood Libel") that Christian European people propagated against the Jewish people for several hundred years.

The following are links to articles which accurately and clearly describe and explain the main current manifestations of this Stockholm syndrome that very many Jewish people are experiencing to various degrees.

----

Jewish Stockholm Syndrome

The Psychology of Populations under Chronic Siege, by American Jewish psychologist Kenneth Levin (About the Stockholm syndrome that is currently being experienced by Jewish people in Israel)
http://www.jcpa.org/phas/phas-046-levin.htm

Explaining Jewish Political Behavior, by American-born Israeli Jewish political analyst Barry Rubin (About the Stockholm syndrome that is currently being experienced by Jewish people in the United States and in other Western countries (culturally Christian-European - Christian and formerly Christian - countries))
http://rubinreports.blogspot.com/2010/08/explaining-jewish-political-behavior.html

----

Karl Marx

The following is a link to some information about Karl Marx. Karl Marx was ethnically Jewish son of an ethnically Jewish Christian convert, and was an anti-Jewish racist. That the extreme anti-Jewish racism of Karl Marx has been almost completely obfuscated is a manifestation of the anti-Jewish bigotry that is a deeply engrained part of the culture of Western societies (culturally Christian-European - Christian and formerly Christian societies), and is a manifestation of the deep profound Stockholm syndrome that very many Jewish people are experiencing to various degrees, and that, for many hundreds of years, almost all Jewish people have experienced to various degrees.

Marx & Friends in their own words (Excerpts of racist anti-Jewish writings of Karl Marx)
http://marxwords.blogspot.com

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The Corruptness of the Current Western News Mass-Media

The following is a video which, among other things, explicitly exposes a particularly egregious example of the libelous deceitful news coverage of the "Tea Party" (a peaceful "grass-roots" politically "Conservative" political movement) by the American news mass media. I recommend watching this video until to at least 3m:32s into the video.

MUST SEE Political Correctness Exposed! Marxism Communism Frankfurt School： Lefties watch and learn!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UhugUzUuPkE

The following is a video by American Jewish professor of History (Millenialism; Medieval History), Richard Landes. This video explicitly exposes the Western news mass media's participation in propagating a libelous news story which falsely accused the Israeli army of intentionally repeatedly shooting sniper fire at, and killing, a 'Palestinian' Arab boy, in the year 2000, which a) was a story that was staged by Fatah-PLO-PalestinianAuthority; and which b) was repeatedly broadcast in Europe by the European mass media; and which c) caused, and was the beginning of, the European racist contemporary propaganda and political war against Israel; and which d) was was used, by Yasser Arafat and Mahmoud Abbas and their Fatah-PLO-PalestinianAuthority, as the pretext to launch the so-called "Second Intifada", in which, with over one hundred bomb attacks in Israel, Yasser Arafat and Mahmoud Abbas and their Fatah-PLO-PalestinianAuthority, with their terrorist militia al-Aqsa Martyr's Brigade, and with their then-allies and then-collaborators, Hamas, killed over one thousand Jewish people in buses, and restaurants, and other places of social congregation in Israel; and which e) was used by Al-Qaeda as their core recruiting propaganda icon

Pallywood
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uL8ANySuSuk

----

The following is an excerpt of a speech given by Daniel Patrick Moynihan, as the U.S. ambassador to the United Nations, in 1975, during the passing of the infamous "Zionism is Racism" Muslim-Soviet resolution in the United Nations, which, at that time, was presided over by German former Nazi war criminal, and, at that time, Secretary-General of the United Nations, Kurt Waldheim.

"There will be time enough to contemplate the harm this act will have done the United Nations. Historians will do that for us, and it is sufficient for the moment only to note the foreboding fact. A great evil has been loosed upon the world. The abomination of anti-semitism--as this year's Nobel Peace Laureate Andrei Sakharov observed in Moscow just a few days ago--the Abomination of anti-semitism has been given the appearance of international sanction. The General Assembly today grants symbolic amnesty--and more--to the murderers of the six million European Jews. Evil enough in itself, but more ominous by far is the realization that now presses upon us--the realization that if there were no General Assembly, this could never have happened."

----

"The liberal project began to fail when it began to lie."

-- Daniel Patrick Moynihan

Sincerely,
Daniel Bielak

Dowse -

"Why are you sorry?

And I'm not associating anything. Just cobbling 3 of your words, vis a vis your support for Occupy, your criticism of Fox and your standard, tired, negative characterization of "corporate" bad guys."

What Islam is to religion, Fox "News" is to news - deeply deceptive and even more extreme and corrupt than the others.

As for Occupy, you clearly don't understand that the movement is about removing a system of Plutocracy, plain and simple.

Not all or even most corporate people are "bad guys" you're hearing things I have not said. That said, there is no denying the corruption of Monsanto, AIG, Goldman Sachs and so many others who have Obama in their pocket.

Peace,

Eric

Eric Allen Bell Defects to JihadWatch Twilight Zone: Islamophobic Diarist Dumped by Daily Kos:

http://www.loonwatch.com/2012/01/eric-allen-bell-dumped-by-daily-kos-for-being-a-bigot/comment-page-2/#comment-135524

Wellington -

"I find it amusing that Mr. Bell uses leftist language (e.g., "mean-spirited") while decrying the true existence of a right and left."

That is a very weak argument indeed. Perhaps we might both agree that the way in which Spencer is portrayed in Loonwatch is "mean spirited". Does that mean we are being "Leftists"?

You are holding tightly to some very limited dogmatic views which, if released would broaden the scope of your perception.

What Ned Beatty said in Network actually is about right. To not recognize that Corporatism is the dominant political force in America today is completely naive.

Left vs. Right exist in theory, but in reality this is just more smoke and mirrors in the game of divide and conquer as the ruling power elite consolidate their wealth and shift it ever upward - deciding to use their money to make more money at the Wall Street casino rather than to reinvest into actually producing much of anything or creating jobs. Nothing trickles down. The super rich have never had it better, the middle class is shrinking at an alarming rate and the poor are getting poorer.

Turn off your TV for a few months and then take a fresh look around and see what will become painfully self evident with regard to what is actually going on in the world today.

Eric,

I hope you continue to contribute to the discussion, and I hope you get reinstated at Daily Kos. I am a former liberal. Most of my family and associates are liberal. I have long believed that the anti-Jihad, pro-freedom-and-human-rights movement should include more liberals. To be successful in the long haul, we need to include a broader spectrum of political players, I think.

I am not for shipping out all Muslims, but I do think it makes sense to limit immigration from Muslim countries to ex-Muslims and persecuted non-Muslims only. Even though a Muslim is a person, not an ideology, he is a person with "Islam inside" (kind of like "Intel inside"). As long as he has Islam inside, even if he is more influenced by Western secular values than by Islam, still he carries the seeds of trouble, because he believes that the Quran is the word of God. So far, sadly, there is no country on earth that has successfully increased its Muslim population without these trouble-seeds bearing bitter fruit. So far, I have seen no evidence that Muslims in this country are seeing the light en mass and realizing that the Quran is not in fact the word of God, so I think that when it comes to Muslim immigrants fewer is better than more.

I do not hate Musims, although I do think that the world will be far better off in the future if massive numbers of Muslims rethink their beliefs and decide the Quran is not the word of God after all.

Teri -

Agreed and thank you :)

Eric

Wellington -

"Well, I welcome these exchanges with you. I have no doubt you are a decent man. And, once again, respecting the fight against what Islam intends for everyone, we are on the same side, and I will allow myself to be encouraged by this. Also, you have strong convictions which you stick to, as I do. I find this admirable. Take care. And welcome to the fight of our lives."

Thank you :)

BTW - I do feel that the government is the real problem as well as they make it possible for corporate interests to run amuck. It's not so much that I feel the government needs to involve itself more, but less actually. They rig the game in favor of whoever gives them the most money and influence. These corporate interests are playing the game to win the way it is currently set up. Less government interference in terms of rigging the game would be ideal. So there's my two cents on that.

But in the bigger picture, Islam is a very serious threat. It hurts Muslims more than anyone else actually. It is not important to me that we see eye to eye on all issues. This is a watchdog website which concerns itself with the tyranny that is Islam and on that front we are more or less on the same page.

Peace,

Eric

Infidel Pride -

When it comes to OCCUPY you are parroting ignorant nonsense heard on TV and the radio. I have been deeply involved with this movement from the beginning. It is a diverse movement, not exclusively a Leftist movement and a large segment believe that the problem is not simply Wall Street alone but the marriage between Wall Street and government - in other words "Plutocracy".

Now when Obama militarized the police and ordered the DHS to aid the police on beating the shit out of unarmed peaceful protesters we started to border on having a police state.

Plutocracy + Police State = Fascism.

Obama is not behind OCCUPY although there is no doubt he would like to cash in. And there is no denying that many within the OCCUPY Movement are in fact mindless Obamabots. However to reduce it to only this is just knee-jerk reactionary parroting of the Fox "News" narrative.

Eric Allen Bell,

"Islam is a very serious threat. It hurts Muslims more than anyone else actually."

I suspect that your former KOS friends simply cannot fathom those facts. Try as you did to explain that you were not assigning the "literalist" label to each of the world's billion or so Muslims, they simply were not willing to listen.

The practice of Islam by Muslims in Detroit, thought of as "mainstream Islam" by too many, is really Islam "lite".

That Muslims in America do not amputate thieves' hands is not because the Qur'an is not applicable--in it's entirety--to Muslims here (for it is), but rather that they would suffer the consequenses of our man-made, secular laws for those who might attempt to carry out "God's" literal word here.

Muslims in Muslim majority nations are not so constrained. The all too commonly accepted notion that Islam, as practiced by those Muslims, is a "radicalized" version practiced by "extremists" who have "hijacked THE religion of peace" represents a complete failure to research the issue and to argue it rationally.

For the vast majority of Muslims around the world, the shari'a (including the punishments that keep wanderers on "the straight path") IS mainstream; not those laws that permit what "Allah and Muhammad have prohibited".

A quick read of the first few paragraphs of the new Afghan Constitution (drafted, ratified, and enacted after we liberated them makes clear what system Afghan citizens labor under; and likely always will.

The diehard intention of so many Muslims in America to bamboozle the uninformed among us has been greatly facilitated by websites like DKOS, and that too, is a very serious threat.

On the contrary, the NY police put up w/ the protesters and all that squatting in Zuccotti Park for several weeks - what did you expect - that they'd allow it to last forever? The demonstrators had made their point. The main grievance against Wall Street was supposedly that American companies were laying off people en masse to enrich their stockholders, and shifting jobs away to China, and that those in government were only too happy to work w/ them in this.

If you are claiming that it was diverse, how many Economic Conservatives did you see (other than the Ron Paul bots) support that movement? The talk show circuit - how many there supported it? Everybody on the Right recognized them as a bunch of malcontents, and kept their distance. In fact, the contrast that was popular, if misplaced, was the one b/w the Tea Party and the occupiers.

You are welcome to argue that what the OCCUPY movement stood for was legit, but please don't claim that it had substantial support from the Right - which is what your claim about its support base being diverse implies.

p.s., and one category of people I forgot to include who are at risk of harm by Muslims applying the letter or spirit of Islam, namely, non-Muslims living in a non-Muslim majority country which has a significant Muslim minority.

p.s., and those (Muslim or not) who violate some important aspect of sharia or taboo in Islam, either simply because of who they are, such as gays and lesbians, and others who are mentioned in Eric's article.

There are non-Muslims who are not at significant risk of being harmed by mainstream or hard-line Muslims. These "helpers" are non-Muslims who promote Islamic propaganda or who in various ways enable the furthering of sharia and jihad, or who actually support or engage in violent of military actions with Muslims against non-Muslims.

There are also cultural Muslims who are not actually believers but who adopt the same propaganda as the jihadists, don't criticize Islam (or only do so by noting that all religions have their problems, etc.) and thus they are not threatened by the hard-liners. These non-believing cultural Muslims are still part of the ummah, and defend the deen. The only problem they have is with "Allah". Most of the hard-line Muslims don't have a problem with the secular cultural Muslims unless the latter criticize Islam publicly.

Once an Islamic state is fully established, though these pro-Islam non-Muslims and mere cultural secular Muslims will be in trouble unless they embrace Islam fully or accept some set of restrictions and an inferior status.

Infidel Pride -

You are parroting things you've heard in the MSM regarding OCCUPY. You don't actually know.

Having been on the inside of it from the beginning I am telling you, whether you want to believe it or not, that a sizable portion of those involved see big government and it's obedience to big money interests as the problem.

It is a myth propagated by the MSM that OCCUPY is just a bunch of lazy liberals who think taxing the rich will solve everything.

OCCUPY is not the Tea Party, there are differences. But the complaint I hear most often from within the movement centers around Plutocracy.

Occupy Wall Street exists in protest to the unholy alliance between certain big money interests and the near ownership they have over our politicians and our political process.

If a "news" program tells you otherwise, pay close attention to who the advertisers are during the break. Are they oil companies and investment firms? Are they ads for pharmaceutics? These companies buy up ad space most likely not to sell their products as much as to control the news - to make CNN and others accountable to them.

If Monsanto puts up money for NPR, then on NPR you will never hear any stories that could spell trouble for Monsanto. That is the way that media works.

Where this becomes particularly extreme is under Roger Ailes of Fox "News" as he is a true believer. The content of the editorial based "news" on Fox is designed to manufacture consent for war and to mislead Americans into thinking that Corporations and multi-bilionaires (with the exception of Soros) are their friends.

Occupy is not an exclusively "Left" movement. There is a tremendous amount of disillusionment with Obama among the Liberals involved in the movement. Although there are those who wrongly think that Obama is not at fault and that everything can be blamed on the Right, many of those people get schooled pretty fast on the reality of Plutocracy and the illusion of this being a Right vs. Left struggle.

- Eric

Dowse -

"And the Occupy "movement" was/is nothing but a bunch of lazy, envious bums who rant on and on about "plutocracies" and "corporate greed", all the while "texting the revolution" from their Ipads, and taking hits of meth down in Zuccoti park. It was/is a Marxist Joke."

From Fox "News" to your mouth but with no basis in actual reality. You sound exactly like those who support Loonwatch and refuse to entertain any other point of view than the one they are already comfortable with.

Okay the featured "Simple Quiz" is of course really good, but some of his comments presented here are, well - not so great. He seems a little too big for his britches and stuck on being right. Too bad that he didn't give some of his comments the same degree of thought and care that he did his awesome quiz.

Peace, and all that jazz ...

Champ -

When it comes to the issue of the OCCUPY movement, I know what I am talking about as it pertains to the makeup of the people involved. And I am well aware that what I am reporting is in start contrast to what is reported on "Fox and Friends".

The intolerance of anyone expressing views other than the Fox "News" variety here is somewhat alienating. Is that the intention?

As for FOX News and the Occupy Movements and various other issues, I respectfully suggest that we must agree to disagree—for now, at least.

But I think we can all agree here that Jihad presents a threat to everyone in America—Liberal, Conservative, and everyone in between.

My interest is in human rights. I trust that we all share that interest. I hope that we all agree that treating others with dignity is important as is being treated the way we would like to be treated.

We may differ on policies and techniques and other interpretations of reality, but we do share a common concern, hopefully for the right reasons, and that is to identify and stop religious tyranny.

The rest really doesn't matter much to me insofar was what needs to be discussed on JW with regard to my own political slant.

My main focus has been my webiste, Global One TV (http://www.GlobalOne.TV) where the theme there is that "Inward Revolution Creates Outward Revolution". That is how I personally tend to view the world and myself in it. Without a fundamental shift in ones consciousness, nothing really changes at all... and it's okay with me if you see it differently ;)

Peace,

Eric

Eric ...

"When it comes to the issue of the OCCUPY movement, I know what I am talking about as it pertains to the makeup of the people involved. And I am well aware that what I am reporting is in start contrast to what is reported on 'Fox and Friends'."

Who mentioned Fox News on this thread in the first place? Was it you?

"The intolerance of anyone expressing views other than the Fox 'News' variety here is somewhat alienating. Is that the intention?"

If you brought up Fox News, then what was your intention for doing that?

My discussion with Hesperado:

Hi Hesp -

That's quite a few requests to set me on a track of clarifying my position, which you already are more than familiar with. You know where we agree and disagree, and even the reasons why we differ - both on specifics and fundamentals - are pretty clear after numerous spirited debates. Let me recap all of it before I'll try to indulge you in accord with your kind guidance.

[You might wanna skip this part and go right to my attempt at providing you with a somewhat satisfying answer.]

* * *

In short: your discussion is with fellow big-gov progressivists, who treat two specific fetishes as treasure: the (a) "Tiny Minority" meme and (b) the "Leftist conspiracy" meme.
What I have tried to make you understand, is that, like these JW/GoV/../ fetishists, you have one of your own, which makes it harder for you to see the bigger picture. My point: substantial differences between you people notwithstanding, you all fail to discern, let alone address, the underlying monetary structure that acts as another very powerful "enabling factor" besides people's mindsets.

I will now - without any further annoyance ('cause you know what would normally follow here ;) - go straight to my specific answer to your string of requests.

* * *

[You might want to skip this as well..]

First off, and for argument's sake, let's depict The Problem as being twofold: the existential Threat, and the reaction to that threat.

In the great piece you did on Bell, you restated one cardinal point that features in the intra-progressivist discussion about the reaction to the existential threat of Islam:

"We cannot tell the difference between harmless Muslims, even if we agree they exist in large numbers, and the dangerous Muslims trying to deceive us in the service of their grand, protracted plan to subvert the New Rome -- the modern West -- standing in the way of Islam's right to dominate the world."

That's between you, a firm AIMer, and the soft-CJs populating the comments section of JihadWatch. Since we're here at your blog, "entre-nous" so to speak, I can reformulate your axiom in ever sterner/simpler terms:

Islam is our existential Threat, a hostile take-over Cult with Muslims acting as its agents. Islam is the problem, therefore Muslims are. All Muslims.

No need to talk about the academic issue of "harmless Muslims" and related debates about the quantity of them available, let alone the use of these enigmatic "harmless Muslims" for the cause of (defending) Liberty.

* * *

Hesp -

Your requests, in condensed, reshuffled/rephrased form [Attention: annoyance alert! ;)]:

"(2) How is it most likely the Progressivist Welfare State will solve -- or try to solve -- this problem? (1) How should the West solve this problem? P.S.: And, if you would so indulge me, I would greatly appreciate your clarification on: a), the specific ways in which you disagree with or differ from Eric Allen Bell, and b), the specific ways in which you may agree with him."

As to your first two requests, I can only say that I marvel at your capacity to leave uncomprehended the obvious. So the only thing for me to do, is to have you revisit that / comment of mine / @Wellington. My point (1) answers your second request about the most likely way the state apparatus will try to solve the problem. My point (2) answers your first request about my ideas for a desirable political solution to the problem.

Now, the more interesting part about E.A. Bell and the specific ways where I might agree/disagree. Thank you for that typical comment of his in the JW thread. Very typical indeed. As would be your answer that I distil from your posts. Pity you aren't allowed to engage him directly on JW, but then again, I imagine your replies wouldn't have been all that different from here. What stands out is the issue you'll always leave unexplored: the economy. Bell superficially touches upon it, yet distorts the issue in a typical leftist way. You just leave it out of the picture in its entirety.

Here's the Bell quote that I find most useful, to illustrate - for your understanding - the way I see things fundamentally different:

"It is a myth propagated by the MSM that OCCUPY is just a bunch of lazy liberals who think taxing the rich will solve everything.

Occupy Wall Street exists in protest to the unholy alliance between certain big money interests and the near ownership they have over our politicians and our political process."

Notice the typical complaining about the MSM lamestreamists, while actually, his real qualm should be with that segment of "Occupy" that fails to promote (through the internet) its fundamental difference with the "bunch of lazy liberals".
The second part of the quote doesn't do well to support his argument, because it's just another variety of the typical leftist/anti-globalist critique of "big business" that practically "owns" the thing he chooses to describe as "our political process".
Suppose he'd use that term, "our political process" in a narrative decrying the fact that PCMC practically "owns" our politicians, I imagine you'd be much more in agreement with Bell, right? There you've got your fetish (i.e. the staunch fixation on just one particular part of reality), your fantasy, shared by many other Progressivists, that it's just the wrong people, with the wrong mindset, who happen to be in charge at the wrong time in history.

To be sure and FYI, I don't agree with Bell on any of the points he pushes in his particular comment. He suggests OWS isn't typically "leftist", then he comes up with typically leftist talking points, while remaining oblivious to the more than active participation of the State in this collusion. Addressing this, would entail an in-depth discussion of the history of the monetary system involved. I see not even the beginning of that in Bell's worldview, and wouldn't expect it from someone obviously lacking the wider frame of reference here. The introduction of this "Tea Party" phenomenon to clarify his point only adds to the confusion for several reasons, starting with the fact that these days, "Tea Party" is a label that has been attached to almost anything deemed "conservative", even if that includes mutually exclusive political positions.

In short: for me, most of this - and other related CJ/AIM squabbles - comes down to the usual Progressivist infighting, with most people pushing typical Big Gov "solutions" to the Problem. I don't care whether the solutions proposed are deemed "left" or "right". People who still hold on to that false distinction are beyond rescue, as far as I'm concerned.

So there you have it. There's no doubt in my mind, that you will be left unsatisfied, and that you'll have more in store after I've ventured to take these discursive hurdles. I'm afraid though, this will have to do for now.

Always a pleasure to disagree with you Hesp, take care,
Sag

* without any mention of the crucial difference between big political entrepreneurs and genuine free market entrepreneurs.

Infidel Pride -

"You do know, don't you, that at the end of the day, these companies are accountable to their shareholders, and that if they are all the time paying every channel to alter the news in their behalf, their own bottom lines, as well as their stock prices, will dip, bringing down w/ it all the mutual & index funds that they are part of. You actually think shareholders - and I'm talking about shareholders who attend meetings, not those who simply tick off vote boxes in their shareholders packets - will just sit down & take it?"

In short, YES.

The oil companies have done very well by their shareholders. It's all about the bottom line and the bottom line just keeps getting better and better.

Does a shareholder really want to know how sausages are made?

NEW THOUGHT:
(as the Left vs. Right stuff is painfully boring)

The demonization of any person so deeply indoctrinated as to imagine themselves to be a Muslim is unfair, cruel, discriminatory and lacking in humanity. The parallels with Nazi Germany start to get creepy.

Equally, to be so "open-minded" and "liberal" that one exercises no caution whatsoever and imagines all Muslims to be "moderate" until proven otherwise is clearly a hazardous and potentially dangerous position to take in a world where this tyrannical religious system and brutal political system is becoming more popular and more radicalized with each passing day.

So, what is the right approach? What actions can we take without violating another person's civil rights or their dignity, within the law, maintaining the moral high ground without abandoning the good common sense?

Is there a nonviolent resolution?

Is it possible to promote caution without promoting hate?

I intent to keep writing on this subject and would be very much interested in learning some of the points of view here on the dilemma I have outlined above.

Thanks ;)

Eric

Eric@BellMedia.org

Two little pieces well worth reading, for Mr Bell if he looks in here, and for anyone else who may wander back to this thread or who may lob in here via google in the future.

http://www.newenglishreview.org/blog_direct_link.cfm/blog_id/35926
Monday, 20 June 2011

'Fitzgerald: Islamophobia? Not So Fast'

[Re-posted from January 26, 2007]

The first four paragraphs, to give you a hint of the flavour:

QUOTE: "Analysts both in the Muslim and the Western world by and large agree that “fear” and lack of objective dialogue are the root cause of Islamophobia and Anti-Americanism." – a statement by Abukar Arman in this article
Not so fast, buster. The word "Islamophobia" is not an acceptable term for intelligent apprehensions over Islam.

'For Islam is for its adherents a total belief-system whose central and moving idea is that of a complete division between Believer and Infidel. It asks of Believers that they offer their sole loyalty to Islam as a Total System, and to the Jihad, furthered through many conceivable instruments, to spread the dominance of Islam to lands that for now may still be under Infidel rule. Believers are also to ensure that dominance of Islam by removing "all obstacles" to its spread. They are to ensure that Muslims rule, and not just here or there, not just in the lands now part of Dar al-Islam or once part of Dar al-Islam, but everywhere.

'The large-scale presence of Muslims in the Lands of the Infidels has brought about a situation, for those indigenous Infidels (and also for other non-indigenous arrivals, non-Muslim immigrants), that is unpleasant, expensive (the costs of monitoring, the costs of security, spiralling ever upward), and physically dangerous. "...

Read it all, it's well worth it.

And now the second item: 'Confessions of an Islamophobe'.

http://www.newenglishreview.org/blog_direct_link.cfm/blog_id/38927
Wednesday, 9 November 2011
Confessions of an Islamophobe

By Kered Rebos

"I have an admission to make.
I am afraid of Islam.
'Just to give you a sense of how frightened I am, I tell you this: I’m more frightened of Islam than I am of being called a bigot or an Islamophobe.
'That’s fear...

'I’m afraid of Islam for a number of reasons:

'First, I am afraid because of its teachings regarding non-Muslims, Christians and Jews especially. A number of sources that comprise the Muslim tradition about such things call for Jews to be subjugated and oppressed.

'This bothers me. I happen to be a Christian myself and a lot of my friends are Jews. Because I am a Christian and have Jews as friends, I’m predisposed to be fearful toward movements, religious or otherwise, that call for the subjugation of Christians and Jews.

'I’m funny that way.

'These days, if Christians are being murdered, there is a good chance Muslims have done the killing.
'Not every Muslim behaves this way, of course, but these days, the people who do are usually Muslims, and they use the Koran to justify their behavior...

...
"I am also afraid of Islam because of the way some of its adherents respond to criticism and theological challenge. Muslims often resort to violence to protect their faith’s reputation among believers and non-believers and its position as the dominant force in the societies in which it exists.

'If you say that Islam is not a religion of peace because, well, a fair number of Muslims have killed people in the name of Islam, you might get killed for denying that Islam is a religion of peace.

'Prominent Muslim leaders call for people who criticize or leave the religion to be killed. Muslims act on these instructions often enough to scare me.

'A number of writers and artists have been killed or driven under ground by the threat of violence.

'I can’t draw very well, but I do fancy myself a writer and I don’t want to go on the lam for saying something critical of a religion adhered to by more than 1 billion people...".

Click on the link. Read the whole thing. It's good.