The literature apparently gets some of its material from Minhaj al-Muslim, reminding one again of the comment-box apologists we've encountered who have insisted they've never heard of this book and we must have picked it out of the clear blue sky to tar Islam's reputation.
Then this guy must be a total Islamophobe. Or an Islamohomophobe. Or a Homoislamophobe? "'I was doing my duty as a Muslim,' says father who handed out leaflets saying gay people should be hanged," by Lucy Buckland for the Daily Mail, January 16 (thanks to The Religion of Peace):
A father has told a court he was only doing his duty as a Muslim by handing out leaflets calling for gay people to be executed.
Kabir Ahmed, 28, said he handed a leaflet called Death Penalty? to a policeman and stuffed them through letterboxes across Derby because he was spreading the word of God as taught by Islam.
He said: 'My intention was to do my duty as a Muslim, to inform people of God’s word and to give the message on what God says about homosexuality.'
Married Ahmed, who has a nine-month-old daughter, is on trial with four other men at Derby Crown Court charged with inciting hatred on the grounds of sexual orientation, the first prosecution of its kind since legislation came into force in March 2010.
At the opening of the trial last week jurors were shown the Death Penalty? leaflet, which shows an image of a mannequin hanging from a noose and says that homosexuality is punishable by the death penalty under Islam.
He said it.
The leaflet states: 'The death sentence is the only way this immoral crime can be erased from corrupting society and act as a deterrent for any other ill person who is remotely inclined in this bent way.'
It goes on: 'The only dispute amongst the classical authorities was the method employed in carrying out the penal code,' and then goes on to offer burning, being flung from a high point such as a mountain or building, or being stoned to death as suitable methods.
There it is: "Gay people should be thrown head first off high buildings and if not killed on hitting the ground, they should be then stoned to death." - Minhaj al-Muslim (The Way of the Muslim)
Giving evidence today Ahmed, wearing a pair of grey trousers and a black shirt, said he had handed one of the Death Penalty? leaflets to PC Stephen Gregory on July 2 2010 as he was passing by the area of the Jamia Mosque in Rosehill Street following Friday prayers.
He told the court he felt it was his duty as a Muslim to inform and advise people wherever they may be committing sins, he would be failing if he did not. [...]
Calling for anyone to be put to death is quite different from expressing disapproval of any kind of behavior.
Prosecutor Bobbie Cheema told the court the Death Penalty? leaflet was not educational or informative but was simply 'threatening, offensive, frightening and nasty.'
I keep trying to tell my head-in-the-sandartner about this stuff but he refuses to even consider the possibility that Islam could be anything other than a religion of peace. To him it's Christianity that's Intolerant. Maybe so, but I really don't care if people tolerate me so long as they refrain from trying to hang me, throw me off buildings, stone me, burn me, or some combination of the above. He works with a peaceful (for now) Muslim and that is enough evidence for him (and he refuses to read this site, or even a pick up a qur'an). Oh well. He's a few years younger than me and still naive. In time he'll see as it gets worse. It'll likely be too late by then, but that will be on his head and all those others who choose to be blind. So sad we are being so complicit in our own holocaust. Al least I'll be able to say "I told you so".
"...it was his duty as a muslim to inform and advise..."
if he didn't do his duty he would be responsible for the corruption of society
come to think of it, he was corrupting society even further
Muslim ..... says he was just doing his duty to inform about Islamic law
And the judge must now do his duty as a defender and upholder of the Law of Britain; send him to jail or give him a large fine.
While the leaflet may have been threatening, its message was, nevertheless, true in terms of Islam's treatment of homosexuality. Looking at the "hate" laws springing up like mushrooms in Europe these days, one needs to think carefully about what is happening to freedom of speech. Voltaire had it right. On the other hand, I have to smile when a Muslim is indicted for telling the truth about Islam, just like Elizabeth in Vienna! We need a corollary to Thatcher's, "eventually you run out of other people's money to spend." Maybe something on the order of, "eventually the truth will bit you in the ass, hard!"
This muslim may actually be doing British society a favor by helping unmask the true evil nature of Islam. As far as Christians, the Spirit of Christ does not allow a believer to use violence against anyone. God will judge. The most any Christian can do is pray for a homosexual. Even the hatred expressed by certain "Christians" like Fred Phelps is inconsistent with the Spiriit of Jesus (see Jesus response to the woman caught in adultery John 8:7).
But for muslims this hatred and use of violence is part of their warped and nefarious DEMON INSPIRED theology of works righteousness, were they try and EARN "good" deeds to gain entrance to their brothel in the sky.
I have two adult nephews who are gay, both of them know this is going on in Islam lands, but basically shrug it off...
I think it is the same reason Christians in general don't seem to be too concerned about persecutions in Egypt, Iraq etc...
It's going on 'over there' and not 'over here'...
But gays should now be aware that Ahmed and those who believe like him, have brought it over here, and Ahmed is bringing it out of the closet...If informing is his duty, then so is tossing gays off tall buildings...It's just a small step when you have one foot into violence, and the other foot on a banana peel...
Gay Z thanks for your post. Christians and gays have usually behaved like cats and dogs and some clear headed thinking like yours is the only path to peace. I just pray with more of the same patience and understanding you'll be able to reach your partner in the course of time. The old 'I told you so' will be no comfort at all should something awful befall him.
God bless!
"Simply threatening, offensive, frightening and nasty." Well that just about sums up Islam itself. Oh dear, something is going to have to give one way or the other in this multicultural Britain. This muslim obviously thinks he is already living in Dar al-Islam. Actually the more muslims that are like him & actually come out & push their beliefs as stated in the Quran the better for our fight against it as kafirs start to wake up.
From above...Actually the more muslims that are like him & actually come out & push their beliefs as stated in the Quran the better for our fight against it as kafirs...
Actually I think we should try our best to stop them before they kill more kuffar...gay or otherwise...
GZ,
I too have an "head-in-the-sandartner" and have tried as you have to explain about islame with the same results as you. I'm sure they will come around with small gentle reminders every time a muslime blows up that islame is not what they think it is (the anti-religion, counter to everything a religion is supposed to be, good is bad, bad is good, etc...). The evidence is too great to ignore for too long. Still, "I told you so" can be a hollow victory.
spin,
I agree with you about Voltaire's quote, which was "I disagree with what you say, but will fight to the death for your right to say it."
The "hate speech" codes are quite obviously going to be used to silence criticism of Islam. It is galling to extend freedom of speech to people who do not share the slightest fraction of our values. However, ultimately it is the truth, rather than suppression, which has the best chance of winning in the end.
The US has the most concrete freedom of expression provisions. Nazis, holocaust deniers, Communists: all can freely peddle their poisons. And, all are marginalized, because their irrational claims simply cannot stand up the the truth.
The essence of "political correctness" is a self-imposed censorship. It is forbidden to speak about racial differences or the heritability of intelligence . We must act as if the only difference between Somali Muslim immigrants and Serbian Orthodox immigrants is religion.
Israel is one of the most tolerant countries in the world as far as gays. Coincidentally, or not so coincidentally, Israel is one of the strongest countries in the world, militarily.
The free expression of our values and our knowledge is our strength, not a liability.
In Canada , freedom of speech has some caveats. You cannot promote violence or hate !
It is time to tighten up the freedom of religion along the same lines.
Our constitutions are one of our greatest assets but for those who hate us, our greatest weak point !
We have to address the threat never envisioned by our constitutions !
UK is in a tough spot. The likes of George Galloway who openly support Hamas & Islamics by fund raising etc our at the heart of Britons problem. The unchecked immigration is allowing undesirables in & Sharia in part has been adopted into their civil code !
Just send him to a country where homosexuality does not exist, like Marocco, Saudi-Arabia, Egypt, Iran etc.
While I haven't seen a poll of U.K. Muslims' support for the death penalty for homosexuality, it does appear that the majority (62%) believe that homosexuality should at least be illegal. Source
A sample of Muslims in the U.K. were asked if they agreed or disagreed with various Islamic rules, including the following:
“That homosexuality is wrong and should be illegal.”
61% agree, 30% disagree, 9% don’t know/ refused.
It's ironic that this Muslim barrow is arrested for telling the truth about Islam. Things are getting curiouser and curiouser.
In canada it was Michael Coren who had Aly Hindy on the show and he spoke freely of how he wants canada to become and islam state run by sharaih law so it would be legal to
hang adulters from street lamps as saddem did , and cut of hands or flog people for offending allah and islam.
Mohummad Elmasry told Michael right on the TV show that "Every israeli over 18 is a valid target for murder by terrorism".
Hindy is the Imam for the Khadr family Mosque they attend as good Muslims, and when Omar comes back to canada Hindy will no doubt keep his promise to coach muslim youths to stay in canada and do jihad to kill candian here and not go to Afghan to find candians.
Yes folks, the gutless feminist Barbara Hall and her Human Rights unicks and the Polticians did do a thing to go after these genocidel maniacs spew hatred that have also got away with posting islam Video that call for the death of homosexuals as evil people offending allah.
This unholy aliance that the leftist/liberals have with the islamofascists is so consfusing that when I speak up to expose the gay murder in gaza and iran, or expose the pedophilia by both STR8/gay adult in islam and the Rainbow crusaders...it seems that Pamella Geller and her side kick *When Pigs Fly* deem me a Homophobe and kick me off Atlas Shrugs.
BTW
I sent a email to Pamella showing my $100'000.00 battle against my employer for their 2009 Policy that forces workers to Morally and Financially endorse their Sponsored public event where they knew a pro-hamas group took part for 3 years now, they also knew of the crimes against Children ( UNICEF.CA definition) and the quasi pedophilia displays by naked males expsong their penis at little girls as the Police allow it in the guise of Diversity and PRIDE.
My Employer has a group of Workers with Corporate LOGO's that are expected to march along in lockstep and smile to the crowds while ignoring the child-abuse and pro-hamas banners and anti-israel rantings form QuAIA.
I don't want to see Children harmed of homosexuals hung in iran or murdered in gaza by a painful death , it's not my fault the some pedophilia is ignored by the MSM for PC reason, and that canadian feminists like Naomi Klein and Susan Cole hide from denouncing the gay murders in the OIC's but jump up onto the soap box to bash israel and appease the islamofascists in canada as if they will be spared as jews and feminists( Susan professed to be a lesbian to boot).
So I hope Pam reviews the PDF file from the Child advocate Website that lists the male Nudity as pedophilia and a crime they should report to the police or an adult, and hope she respects the fact that i have yet to go public for legal reasons and she will bare the brunt or lawsuits for naming my Employer or the pedophilie-friendly/hamas-friendly Corporations I will soon post on my website for all the Corps I exposed as enabling hamas to murder gays or use children as suicide bombers.
What's really odd in canada right now is the new Gender-abortions I warned about 10 year ago because we have NO abortion Laws and it's paid for by tax payers to kill thses babies. Three year ago i read about a Toronto clinic that charged a fee for the gender ID of the 4 week old baby with a accuracy rate of 85%+ , they promoted designer-families to space the ages and genders or just have males or females. Now canada has the Abortion-tourism for females to come here to abort the female baby , I knew this long ago and warned that the next leap will be the DNA gene codes for sexual-preference.
One day a mother or couple can choose to abort a baby for sexual preference reasons no matter what the gender, so both STR8/gay Mothers can design their family to have all gay boys or lesbians, or all STR8 girls or boys.
Iran,Gaza and the Saudi's won't have to worry about killing some people in public for their gender or sexuals preference, they will stop them from being born as we see in canada now for gender-abortions to female babies.
Over 80% of the Down syndrome tests are used to Abort the baby when it was first intended to prepare the parents.
I'm not a homophobe for warning the leftists and rainbow groups about the dangerous path they are on to align themselves with the islamists and pro-Choice people that may day wipe out every homosexual baby or find the feminist GENE to be A-Moral and kill them too.
Europe – You are losing the primary means for fighting Islam - FREEDOM OF SPEECH!
It won’t matter that what you write is true; it will be labeled “hate speech” and stopped.
http://www.legal-project.org/issues/defamation-of-religions
Organization of the Islamic Conference goal = to impose at the international level a conception of freedom of speech and expression that would severely limit anything deemed critical of or offensive to Islam or Muslims. "Everyone shall have the right to express his opinion freely in such manner as would not be contrary to the principles of the Shari'ah."
"The best test of truth is the power of the thought to get itself accepted in the competition of the market. I think that we should be eternally vigilant against attempts to check the expression of opinions that we loathe and believe to be fraught with death." Oliver Wendell Holmes
don't look to far for the treatment of gays in Islam. just go to you tube and type in"hanging of gays in Iran".
M
As your friend thinks Christianity is so intolerant, perhaps you ought to ask him why he doesn't emigrate to that Islamic paradise called Iran instead of living amongst 'intolerant Christians' here.
No no no Marisol!
The literature that gays should be HANGED is Iranian literature not Saudi literature!
I am certainly no homophobe but I have some sympathy for these men. Like their 1.5 billion co-religionists they are the victims of Muhammad, Gabriel who is reputed to have brought the holy revelations and the mythical Allah who is said to be greatly akbar. Under the circumstances, a conditional discharge might serve to show these men and the Muslim community that infidels, unlike Quran 48:29, are compassionate towards each other and towards Muslims.
Does the number of homosexuals he wishes to hang include mullahs who abuse young charges?
I think the decisive factor in hate speech should be "incitement to violence." Mr Ahmed writes:
1. Sharia tells us to kill gays.
2. Britain should obey the sharia.
It seems a very short step from this to:
3. Britain should kill gays.
4. Britain doesn't kill gays.
5. Britain has something wrong with it.
And it isn't much of a stretch to infer:
6. We should take the sharia into our own hands and kill gays.
This is incitement to violence.
If he had simply used the existing democratic system to change the death penalty laws, there wouldn't be a case. (At this stage in proceedings, he would have failed, but that is the legitimate option open to him.)
If he had simply said that "homosexuality is wrong and I want it to stop," this would simply have been freedom of speech, and there shouldn't have been a case. (I'm not so sure about British justice in this area, however.)
Even if he had only said "this immoral crime [corrupts] society" without showing how it causes corruption and without justifying his assumption that homosexuality is socially acquired, this would still only be ignorance.
The real legal case ought to have rested on this: does his calling for the death penalty in these circumstances amount to incitement to murder?
If when*pigs*fly happens to read this,
I just want to say THANK YOU for your courageous comments yesterday (on a different thread). I know exactly how unpleasant it is to deal with such hateful homophobes as thomas_h or champ. Don't waste your precious time or energy on arguing with them. Their hypocrisy and hatred are evident for any intelligent person.
Unlike most anti-jihad blogs, Jihad Watch and Atlas Shrugs are objective and fair in reporting anti-gay crimes, but a number of posters can't help being hateful.
It seems that the only time the homosexuals serve any purpose is when they are being persecuted.
Thankfully there are people like when*pigs*fly, gravenimage, dumbledoresarmy and a few others who are objective and somewhat sympathetic. Thank you to all of you.
I can add a local POV with this as in I live just round the corner from this mosque. I've lived here for 20+ years and have posted about my experiences on JW before about how post 9/11 the whole area became more radical and we started to see more niqabs and more radical people in the area.
My housemate photographed one of the main perps recently when there was a gay pride parade here in Derby in the summer 2011....he was there still doing his hate. I could give you a link to my friends facebook pictures of him but for obvious reasons I wont.
If Robert or Marisol are interested I can provide links privately..send me a msg.
Wake up. Muslims view compassion as weakness.
Otoh, some weak minded Westerners believe that by exposing our underbelly yet further the enemy of civilisation will decide we're such great guys that they really must down tools and join us in a multicultural Kumbaya.
HI ovinesongs!
good to see you checking in here and good to know you and some of your friends are still out there fighting and raising the alarm.
Hi dumbledoresarmy,
Yes I always check in everyday and because of the time gap I find most of what I could of said has already been said. So I dont post just muse on them.
But yes I live in the firing line unlike most I assume...so maybe I should get my shit together and post what it's like from the "front"...I could do that but mostly it's just normal..life goes on. I confront the beardy weirdys.."even tho i have a beard mostly..but my beard is sexy not weird.."...
I confront people every day who want to kick my dog and spit in my face...my housemate has been spat at 3 times and the police have done nothing..so we just go back home and watch TV and forget.....oh no not this house...were stauch anti-jihadis and anti-pakistan...this is where all the hate comes from its pakistan...the inbred nation.
ive also been quiet as since the last EDL scare of information leeks I know i'm being watched by the police so I dont post anywhere usually....but here's ok cus I know robert doesn't care a fig who monitors him...
so MI5/6 whoever..yes I dont like certain members of immigrant groups in this country because I see it as my sovereign right to defend it..capsihe
@ ala sux
Stop lying.
I had absolutely nothing to do with you being banned from Atlas. You did that yourself by posting under several different monikers, day after day about the Toronto gay parade and how you wanted it shut down due to it's "negative" effect on the children who attended with their parents.
I do however support you being banned.
Don't bother to reply.
@ Miss Piggy
Thanks again for your support, I don't get much here and appreciate yours a lot.
It's just as well Jesus wasn't a Christian:-)
..."how unpleasant it is to deal with such hateful homophobes as thomas_h or champ."
I beg your pardon. I am not a hateful homophobe. And just like your other vile comment was reported to Robert, so will this one be reported. Stop spreading your lies and taking comments from one thread and bringing them to another.
Marisol already warned you once about doing this ...perhaps she needs to remind you again.
It's muslim literature!
I reported "Miss Piggy's" abusive comment to Robert for review ...
And I know that many of you do not approve of smear campaigns - like the one put forth by "Miss Piggy", so please support Thomas_h and I by speaking out against an attempt to malign our character. Thank you!
And ...
Here's the information that I posted on a different thread that "Miss Piggy" finds so objectionable and earned me the title of "hateful homophobe". Hey you decide:
"Hi, since this thread is nearing the end, and the topic has veered somewhat into the topic of homosexuality, then I wanted to offer some food for thought on the subject to those who may be interested ...
Here is the link: http://carm.org/bible-homosexuality
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
What does the Bible say about homosexuality?
There are those who like to say that the Bible does not condemn homosexuality. Various verses are cited (out of context), and the verses that people use to show that homosexuality is wrong are explained away. The world wants to change God's words and meanings into something more suitable to its sinful desires. Nevertheless, the truth stands: the Bible condemns homosexuality as a sin. Let's look at what it says.
•Lev. 18:22, "You shall not lie with a male as one lies with a female; it is an abomination."
•Lev. 20:13, "If there is a man who lies with a male as those who lie with a woman, both of them have committed a detestable act; they shall surely be put to death. Their bloodguiltness is upon them"
•1 Cor. 6:9-10, "Or do you not know that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor homosexuals, 10nor thieves, nor the covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers, shall inherit the kingdom of God."
•Rom. 1:26-28, "For this reason God gave them over to degrading passions; for their women exchanged the natural function for that which is unnatural, 27and in the same way also the men abandoned the natural function of the woman and burned in their desire toward one another, men with men committing indecent acts and receiving in their own persons the due penalty of their error. 28And just as they did not see fit to acknowledge God any longer, God gave them over to a depraved mind, to do those things which are not proper."
Homosexuality is clearly condemned by the Bible. It goes against the created order of God who created Adam, a man, and then made Eve, a woman. This is what God has ordained as the normal means by which we carry out his command to fill the earth (Gen. 1:28). What God has set up is what is right -- not what sinful man sets up.
However, unlike other sins, homosexuality has a severe judgment administered by God Himself. This judgment is simple: they are given over to their passions. That means that their hearts are allowed to be hardened by their sins (Romans 1:24). As a result, they can no longer see the error of what they are doing, and then they go and promote it and condemn others who don't participate in their sin. So, without an awareness of their sinfulness, there will be no repentance and trusting in Jesus. Without Jesus, they will have no forgiveness. Without forgiveness, there is no salvation. Without salvation, there is only damnation in eternal hell.
What should be the Christian's response to the Homosexual?
Just because someone is a homosexual does not mean that we cannot love him (or her) or pray for him (her). Homosexuality is a sin, and like any other sin it needs to be dealt with in the only way possible. It needs to be laid at the cross and repented of.
As a Christian, you should pray for the salvation of the homosexual the same as you would for any other person in sin. The homosexual is still made in the image of God -- even though he is in grave sin. Therefore, you should show him the same dignity as anyone else with whom you come in contact. However, this does not mean that you are to approve of his sin. Don't compromise your witness for a socially acceptable opinion that is void of godliness. Instead, stand firm in the truth that God has revealed, love him/her biblically, and pray for his salvation.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
I wholly agree with Matt Slick's essay. Much love :)"
I still stand by this comment and without apology.
I think we should stop this nonsense and concentrate on the issues that concern Jihadwatch, the threat of islam to all of us. I despise the Christian church almost as much as I despise islam, however the fact of the matter is that Christians are no longer killing and persecuting my people. The church has been forced to mend it's ways in keeping with the times. islam's evil texts are supposedly set in stone because muhamhead was the perfect man and the last prophet. I have gay friends and I have Christian friends. I do not have any muslim friends and I don't expect to have any in the future as they regard me as a harbi.
Please quit the homophobia and let's have lots more legitimate islamophobia before they come knocking on your door and you find your neighbours have already been taken away. We all have one thing in common: a quite logical dislike of islam. Quit the bickering and knuckle down folks. We have work to be done. As that brave man on flight 93 was supposed to have said: "Let's roll!"
No homophobia here, kind sir. That's my story and I'm stickin' to it! God is the judge, so step awaaay from the laptop ...
Hey thanks for sharing :)
"I have gay friends and I have Christian friends."
Me, too ...
As I said before, "Any excuse will do".
"I have gay friends and I have Christian friends."
Me, too ...
And I am privileged to have two friends who are ex-homosexual. Most admirable people who had moral strength and will power to follow truth and goodness despite the morbid attraction of homosexual perversion.
Sorry, but dragging disputes onto new postings doesn't happen here. Do not do this again.
It appears you and I are just wasting out time judging from the tone of the post previous to yours.
And don't for one second assume that I was suggesting that I am a homosexual when I say I dislike the church. I am a Pagan to make things perfectly clear. What I am not is a homophobe, as you appear to be by the tone of your post.
What in the world are you taking about?
I have never heard about you neither have I read your comments. So what makes you assume I am assuming anything about you?
You clearly misunderstood Marisol ...
Okay notice that she directed her above comment to "Miss Piggy". Read Marisol's comment again. She was warning "Miss Piggy" for bringing a dispute that "Miss Piggy" had with Thomas_h and myself on another thread, and dragged her lies and insults over to this thread. In fact, this is the SECOND time that Marisol has had to warn "Miss Piggy". THAT was why she warned this poster. She wasn't warning Thomas_h.
And for your 911, if "Miss Piggy" repeats this nasty offense again, then I fully intend on reporting this matter to Robert AGAIN. Although Marisol did not say that "Miss Piggy" would get banned, I think the message is clear that she could get banned.
The term "homophobe" is false, because being AFRAID of homosexuals is NOT the issue for Christians.
The same holds true for the term "islamophobe".
Both terms demonstrate intellectual laziness on the part of the person leveling these types of insults and labels. Both are designed to simply shut a person up, in the same way that punching them in the face would do. Hurling these kinds of insults is nothing more than bullying, and ironically, makes you look far worse than the other person. Don't you see that?
Please stop insulting Miss Piggy by calling her a liar, which IMO she is not.
Please stop insulting Miss Piggy by calling her a liar, which IMO she is not.
"...IMO she is not"
Wow, that's about the most compelling method of argumentation ever used.
Galileo: "here is the empirical proof that it is the Earth that revolves around the Sun."
Cardinal Bellarmine: "IMO it is the other way round"
Galileo, (visibly shattered by such irrefutable counterargument): By Jove, you are right! Where were my eyes?
In case it isn't obvious, I wasn't speaking to you. Do you forget that I've asked you once not to address me again? And just in case you wish to try the talking about me to other people route again, I consider it the same as if you directly contact me.
For the second time , do not address me or anything I say .
Are you drunk?
Where do you see "replied to whenflyingpig" in the heading of my comment?
I made fun of your garbage, which is not the same as addressing you. Can't you see you are making a fool of yourself?
Now beat it and do not address me in the future.
Galileo: "here is the empirical proof that it is the Earth that revolves around the Sun."
Cardinal Bellarmine: "IMO it is the other way round"
Galileo, (visibly shattered by such irrefutable counterargument): By Jove, you are right! Where were my eyes?
~~~~~~~~~
That was delicious ..way better than chocolate cake! Oh my I can't stop laughing, lol! You're so witty!
@ Thomas-h
This is the last time, DO not address me or anything i say or talk about me to other people here.
Please stop insulting the truth by enabling liars ...
champ,
Thanks for appreciation. Although, I admit the target was just too easy. A sitting duck
But "..better than chocolate cake"? Well, well, my friend, depends who is the chef. I had some French chocolate a few days ago. Dangerous stuff, but so delicious..
take care,
Thomas
This is the last time, DO not address me or anything i say or talk about me to other people here.
Once again, I did NOT address you.
And I will comment as much as I want on your prose. So what you going to do about it? Leave the JW? Gosh, I start missing you already.
Thomas,
That cake sounds yummy! ...yeah I love anything chocolate.
And you're right to stick to your guns about commenting freely. I've noticed the same bullying by islamic trolls on JW who try to stiffle what we can or cannot say or THINK. This approach is wrong - whether used by those on the anti-jihad side, or used by islamic trolls themselves. This attempt to bully stems from the same need to control and micromanage our freedom of speech.
Take care,
champ :)
champ,
My lady friend has just enlightened me that the chocolate cake was actually Belgian, not French. Well, what do I know...It tasted out of this world...
This attempt to bully stems from the same need to control and micromanage our freedom of speech.
Right. But it is also deadly give away of realization of one's inferiority. A person sees that he can't win through debate, so (s)he tries to save the face by bending the rules.
talk to you later,
Thomas
Champ ... do you eat shellfish, eat any rare meat, wear 2 different types of fabric together, masturbate, work or cook on the sabbath? Some of these 'sins' are punishable by death. Funny how it is that only parts of your holy scripture are applicable but others are not. You are a religious hypocrite, and your bible has something to say about that as well.
Shellfish:
"These shall ye eat of all that are in the waters: whatsoever hath fins and scales in the waters, in the seas, and in the rivers, them shall ye eat. And all that have not fins and scales in the seas, and in the rivers, of all that move in the waters, and of any living thing which is in the waters, they shall be an abomination unto you: They shall be even an abomination unto you; ye shall not eat of their flesh, but ye shall have their carcasses in abomination. Whatsoever hath no fins nor scales in the waters, that shall be an abomination unto you." (Leviticus 11:9-12 KJV)
"These ye shall eat of all that are in the waters: all that have fins and scales shall ye eat: whatsoever hath not fins and scales ye may not eat; it is unclean unto you." (Deuteronomy 14:9-10 KJV)
Rare meat:
"I have given them to you for food, just as I have given you grain and vegetables. 4 But you must never eat any meat that still has the lifeblood in it." (Genesis 9:3-4 NLT)
"for the life of the body is in its blood. I have given you the blood on the altar to purify you, making you right with the LORD.[a] It is the blood, given in exchange for a life, that makes purification possible. 12 That is why I have said to the people of Israel, ‘You must never eat or drink blood—neither you nor the foreigners living among you.’
13 “And if any native Israelite or foreigner living among you goes hunting and kills an animal or bird that is approved for eating, he must drain its blood and cover it with earth. 14 The life of every creature is in its blood. That is why I have said to the people of Israel, ‘You must never eat or drink blood, for the life of any creature is in its blood.’ So whoever consumes blood will be cut off from the community." (Leviticus 17:11-14 NLT)
"No matter where you live, you must never consume the blood of any bird or animal. 27 Anyone who consumes blood will be cut off from the community.” (Leviticus 7:26-27 NLT)
"Instead, we should write and tell them to abstain from eating food offered to idols, from sexual immorality, from eating the meat of strangled animals, and from consuming blood." (Acts 15:20 & 29).
No poly-cotton blends in your wardrobe I would assume:
"Ye shall keep my statutes. Thou shalt not let thy cattle gender with a diverse kind: thou shalt not sow thy field with mingled seed: neither shall a garment mingled of linen and woollen come upon thee." (Leviticus 19:19)
"Thou shalt not wear a garment of divers sorts, as of woollen and linen together." (Deuteronomy 22:11)
Masturbation (the sin of Onan):
"But Onan was not willing to have a child who would not be his own heir. So whenever he had intercourse with his brother’s wife, he spilled the semen on the ground. This prevented her from having a child who would belong to his brother. 10 But the LORD considered it evil for Onan to deny a child to his dead brother. So the LORD took Onan’s life, too." (Genesis 38:9-10)
Work/Cook on the sabbath:
"Six days shall work be done, but on the seventh day there shall be to you an holy day, a sabbath of rest to the LORD: whosoever doeth work therein shall be put to death." (Exodus 35:2)
"Ye shall kindle no fire throughout your habitations upon the sabbath day." (Exodus 35:3).
On being a religious hypocrite:
“Be careful not to practice your righteousness in front of others to be seen by them. If you do, you will have no reward from your Father in heaven." (Matthew 6:1)
I am a Christian, not a practicing Jew, and you obviously don't understand the difference. And no, by not practicing Jewish Laws and traditions, that does not make me a hypocrite. All you've revealed by calling me a hypocrite is your complete ignorance on what grace through Jesus Christ is all about. BTW, the passage you provided in Matthew does not apply to your other allegations, but you'll soon figure this out once you finish reading my comment.
Okay now I will answer your question more thoroughly in an effort to educate you and clear up your profound confusion ...
One of the most common mistakes people make with the Bible is to confuse the issues of Law and grace. The scriptures make the difference when they say, "The Law was given through Moses, but grace and truth came through Jesus Christ", (John 1:17). The Law of Moses is categorized into three parts: the moral law (the Ten Commandments), the civil law (the law for Israel's court system), and the ceremonial law (the law for cermonial worship). The whole Law had 613 precepts - it's do's and don'ts.
Male circumcision was part of the cermonial law given to Israel to set them apart from other nations, as was not eating pork and Sabbath worship. Capital punishment under the Law - for murder, adultery, and blasphemy - was part of the civil law of Israel; so why should we as a nation live under the standards of justice given to a nation three thousand years ago? Through grace, we are under no obligation to keep any of the dietary, civil, or ceremonial laws of Israel. The moral Law is transcendental; that is, it was always in effect. For example, Cain killed Abel - it was murder and it was wrong, prior to Moses presenting the Law.
However, we ARE under obligation to keep the moral Law. It was given to Israel but its purpose is that "all the world may become guilty before God" (see Romans 3:19-20). And it certainly does. When we study its holy precepts and understand that we violate the seventh by our lust, it shows us that we need the grace and mercy of God.
The reason the moral Law leaves us guilty before God is that it's precepts are written on our hearts, via the conscience. We intuitively know that it is wrong to lie, steal, lust, murder, commit adultery, etc. The Law reveals sin, and Christ covers sin - the New Testament fulfills the Old Testament!
Hope this helps, or at least it should.
Champ ... do you eat shellfish, eat any rare meat, wear 2 different types of fabric together, masturbate, work or cook on the sabbath? Some of these 'sins' are punishable by death. Funny how it is that only parts of your holy scripture are applicable but others are not. You are a religious hypocrite, and your bible has something to say about that as well.
Are you and Champ acquainted? I assume you are not, so isn't it a bit presumptuous of you to call her a 'religious hypocrite'? You might want to brush up on Christian dogma before you accuse her of committing mortal sins, especially since you wouldn't have a clue what she eats or whether the fabrics in her wardrobe co-mingle. Remember, the Bible consists of two parts, the Old and the New Testaments. Christianity did not exist before the New Testament; Christians are followers of Christ.
"Are you and Champ acquainted? I assume you are not, so isn't it a bit presumptuous of you to call her a 'religious hypocrite'?"
LOL, no kidding, good point!! Thank you, Susanp!! :)
""You will know them by their fruits. Grapes are not gathered from thorn bushes nor figs from thistles, are they?" Matthew 7:16
You don't have to know someone personally to get a fair idea of who they are, it's exposed in every action they take and every word word they utter or post.
"Biz Riz" has a valid point but could probably use a better example.
"You will know them by their fruits. Grapes are not gathered from thorn bushes nor figs from thistles, are they?" Matthew 7:16
Right!
Considering that AIDS is a fruit of homosexuality, what does it tell us about it?
Normal? Natural? Beautiful? Healthy?, or perhaps rotten, deadly perversion?
And what does it tell us about its promoters, propagandists, champions and peddlers?
Touche, Thomas, those are excellent points.
Funny how some people use the Bible to fit their own agenda and/or worldview - by using say one Bible verse, but those same people will completely ignore other Bible verses, like these:
•1 Cor. 6:9-10, "Or do you not know that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor homosexuals, nor thieves, nor the covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers, shall inherit the kingdom of God."
•Rom. 1:26-28, "For this reason God gave them over to degrading passions; for their women exchanged the natural function for that which is unnatural, and in the same way also the men abandoned the natural function of the woman and burned in their desire toward one another, men with men committing indecent acts and receiving in their own persons the due penalty of their error. And just as they did not see fit to acknowledge God any longer, God gave them over to a depraved mind, to do those things which are not proper."
Hmm ...
I love to see good Christians, the ones who aren't the least bit in denial about their motives , in action, because as I've said over & over. any excuse to gay bash will do. Gotta love transparency, it's worth a thousand words
"This muslim may actually be doing British society a favor by helping unmask the true evil nature of Islam. As far as Christians, the Spirit of Christ does not allow a believer to use violence against anyone. God will judge. The most any Christian can do is pray for a homosexual. Even the hatred expressed by certain "Christians" like Fred Phelps is inconsistent with the Spiriit of Jesus (see Jesus response to the woman caught in adultery John 8:7).
But for muslims this hatred and use of violence is part of their warped and nefarious DEMON INSPIRED theology of works righteousness, were they try and EARN "good" deeds to gain entrance to their brothel in the sky."
Yes, good point, John ...
and in thinking about the woman caught in adultery, you could just as easily say that about any one of us, because the Bible says that we are ALL sinners.
But ...
when Jesus forgave this woman, He also told her to go and "SIN NO MORE".
Once we pray and ask the LORD to forgive us of our sins, then it's vital to also repent - turn from our sins.
Funny how some people use the Bible to fit their own agenda and/or worldview - by using say one Bible verse, but those same people will completely ignore other Bible verses,...
So right, champ!
These forgers, falsifiers, counterfeiters re-make Bible in their own image and then peddle this horrible caricature to the young and innocent. It is these abominable people I detest while I would never attack those who succumbed to the perversion, but "keep it to themselves".
The difference between the former and the latter group corresponds roughly to that between drug pushers and drug users.
"These forgers, falsifiers, counterfeiters re-make Bible in their own image and then peddle this horrible caricature to the young and innocent."
How true, Thomas ...and Jesus had a very sharp message for those that do what you just described:
"But if anyone causes one of these little ones who believe in me to sin, it would be better for him to have a large millstone hung around his neck and to be drowned in the depths of the sea." -- Matthew 18:6
It's clear what Jesus thought of these people, so you're in very good company.
..."while I would never attack those who succumbed to the perversion," ...
Yes, I meant to respond to that point as well ...
Jesus did not instruct Christians to physically attack sinners, but instead to love them. Unlike some muslims that physically attack and/or kill a man or woman caught in sin - as exampled by the muslims in this headline.
...instead to love them and to "restore" them back to God so that they would repent.
"But if anyone causes one of these little ones who believe in me to sin, it would be better for him to have a large millstone hung around his neck and to be drowned in the depths of the sea." -- Matthew 18:6
champ, you are amazing!
It takes you no time to bring the pertinent excerpt from the Bible, whereas I would have to spend hours to find these strikingly simple yet awesome words. No sentimental B.S. here, yet at the same time, how distinctly different from brutal and crude sadistic threats of the Koran.
“It's clear what Jesus thought of these people, so you're in very good company”.
Very sweet of you, dear champ.
But I have no illusions. My sins weigh tons and I have no reason to believe they weigh less than those of a certain commenter’s here. I am afraid I may not be any nearer to the “good company than he is. Pray for me, my friend. Good night.
What about you, what are your sins?
You're so busy taking the inventory of Thomas and myself, yet you seem unaware of your own sinful behavior presented here.
Here, let me help you ...
You seem intent on pouncing on anything you deem as "gay bashing", yet you liberally bash Christians. I call that a double standard, don't you?
What do you have to say about that?
I pointed out this double standard of yours on another thread, but of course you failed to answer the question.
Answer it now.
1 Cor. 6:9-10, "Or do you not know that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor homosexuals, nor thieves, nor the covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers, shall inherit the kingdom of God."
Ever since I poster this verse from the Bible *pigs* has called me a gay basher - so, it stands to reason then that she would also call me a "fornicator basher", "idolater basher", "theif basher", "covetous basher", "drunkard basher", "reviler basher", and a "swindler basher".
Bottom line - her beef is with God and with God's word, not me.
chump ... chimp ... cramps ... whatever your name is. No one cares what your faith is, because you can't provide evidence that any of it is real, and you never will.
Oh, and the dark ages called ...
I do not permit a woman to teach or to exercise authority over a man; rather, she is to remain quiet. (1 Timothy 2:12).
I sent Robert your comment, and I will continue to report any further abuse from you to Robert in the future as well.
This thread is too far off the rails. There will be no further comments on it.
I will ban anyone who tries to drag this exchange onto a new thread.