Note the top-ten list for countries persecuting Christians. It's probably "Islamophobic" to notice a pattern there. "Vatican spokesman laments religious persecution, cites ‘Islamic extremism’," from Catholic Culture, January 16 (thanks to Twostellas):
The director of the Holy See Press Office has used his weekly message to draw attention to the plight of persecuted Christians.
“The recent annual report of the international evangelical non-governmental organization Open Doors on the persecution of Christians in the world contains a world index of persecution according to which the first ten places are occupied by the following countries in descending order: North Korea, Afghanistan, Saudi Arabia, Somalia, Iran, Maldives, Uzbekistan, Yemen, Iraq and Pakistan,” notes Father Federico Lombardi.
“Among the most serious concerns, the increase in Islamic extremism merits special attention,” he continued. “Persons and organizations dedicated to extremist Islamic ideology perpetrate terrible acts of violence in many places throughout the world: the Boko Haram sect in Nigeria is but one example. Then there is the climate of insecurity that unfortunately in some countries accompanies the so-called “Arab spring”--a climate that drives many Christians to flee and even to emigrate.”
Christian martyrs don't explode:
“Such sufferings are a part of the Christian journey,” Father Lombardi concluded. “Nor ought we be amazed. Jesus said so in the Sermon on the Mount: ‘Blessed are they that are persecuted for righteousness’ sake,’ is the last of the Beatitudes; its promise is reward in heaven.”
So we have one group that likes to torment, subjugate and slit throats and the other that believes suffering persecution and loving and forgiving enemies are the keys to paradise.
Wonder how that dynamic will (continue to ) play out???
the vatican is holier that thou. them thinking of other christains suffering under the muslims is duplicius to say the least.them covering up priests raping and sodomizing 9 year alter boys however is their true character.
M
He who victimizes, or rapes and sodomizes a 9 year old is neither venerated or held as the perfect example of virtue by a single one of the billion catholics world wide. The exact opposite is true of all muslims.
Your canard and imbecile attempt to smear the entirety of Christendom by those motivated to their actions solely based on homosexual paedophile desires and not on religious doctrines which thoroughly prohibit such behavior gives you away once again, showing your true colors, flaming perhaps.. Your distraction may make some dimwits who watch shows such as the view, Oprah's, or Rosie applaud but sorry, for those of us who are part of the anti-jihad movement, you are pathetic and as impenitent and are an impediment for those of us fighting for our country and future.
PS, I'm an Eskimo with 10 generations of marines and seals in our family, ha,.
OT, be on the alert for "non-religious" muslims with irrevocable sympathies to their prior homelands, ie; iran, pakistan, who continue to facilitate the efforts of genocide wanna be's with sly propaganda, electronic exports, technological paraphernalia, western knowhow and anything that can help the enemy in their perpetual , unrelenting quest to do away with their inferior loser state by destroying all.
“Such sufferings are a part of the Christian journey,” Father Lombardi concluded. “Nor ought we be amazed. Jesus said so in the Sermon on the Mount: ‘Blessed are they that are persecuted for righteousness’ sake,’ is the last of the Beatitudes; its promise is reward in heaven.”
I'm actually starting to miss militant Christianity..............
Such restrained language. So Egyptian army vehicles mowing down and killing Copts is filtered by the spokesman as "a climate of insecurity.." created by the so-called Arab Spring. Just a "climate" folks.
And then the spokesman suggests that we all just suffer it for Christ.
I'd like to see a much more aggressive defense of the faith from the Vatican. Long overdue. They helped bring down Communism but hide when the topic turns to the death cult of Islam.
Wow, wakingwest, 1O GENERATIONS ! ! ! Please thank your family for their service from my family!
God Bless you TRUE AMERICANS ! ! !
That should have been 10 GENERATIONS ! ! !
why don't you read my post before you respond like an emotional teenager. where in my post did I blame 2 billion christians? or did I blame an institution like the catholic church. where in my post did I accuse the christains of being pedophile? and the exact is not true of the muslims. I am conviced that you are a teenager. unlike you I do not fight the muslms. I fight Islam. big diffirence. I call a spade a spade. catholic church is a as crminal as the mobs are. thanks to the catholic church for breeding jew hatred in europe for so many centuries where Nazis wwere able to exterminate 6 million jews. did you forget that? unlike you I thank Islam for spreding jew hatred in the muslim world and ulike you I do have a son who is a marine and has served a tour in Afghanisran and is about to be deployed again.
M
Remember that this site is currently operated entirely by 1. A Melkite Greek Catholic, and 2. A Roman Catholic.
Please do some research before you peddle falsehoods about the Church and the Holocaust. For starters:
http://www.catholicnewsagency.com/news/researcher-reveals-pius-xiis-remarkable-aid-for-jewish-refugees/
This is a non-sectarian site, and you're entitled to your wrong opinion, but if you don't care for Catholic "criminals" like us, you're still acting like a rather ungracious guest.
thank you. I know where the door is. And I know this is non secterian site and that is why it is the best. but I ask you this: where in my post do you see that I said "catholics". where in my post did I say I do not care for "Catholic criminals". can you please point this out?
and so if you disagree with me, you can show me the door? I thought we were here fighting Islam who wants to trample on free speech. but it seems that even on this site free speech has a limit or else. after all even if my speech is a hate one, doesn't hate speech needs protection?
Thank you
M
You said, "catholic church is a as crminal as the mobs are."
I'm in the mob? Where's my cannoli?
Marisol: I think as a former muslim, I try very hard to be useful here on this site. so I am going to make one more comment and rhen I am going to leave it alone.
if you critisize Islam and the islamists you are threaten with your life and well being.
if you critisize the catholic church you are shown the door.
I am not sure where freedom of speech is here. I also so not understand what you mean by where is my cannoli? this is probaly a language barrier.
M
You brought in points in your original comment that were 1.) cheap shots against the faith that happens to be held by the people who keep the site going, and 2.) irrelevant to the topic at hand and the purpose of this site, namely, Islam and jihad. Hence my response.
But you aptly note the contrast yourself: you've annoyed a Catholic, but no one is writing a fatwa against life and limb.
The cannoli was a Godfather movie reference since you compared Catholics to the mob. Never mind.
I am an Atheist, but it would be rather charming to witness a New Crusade ripping through the Middle East; splendidly unlikely, I admit. Still, how utterly excellent would that be ? LOL!
Anyway: Our beautiful Western Civilisation must survive until the end of time itself, whatever the cost.
We must be a brotherhood; the pages of history will redeem us as the men who stood firm within the eye of the storm, who shone the light of truth upon Islam until it could bear no more. The men who dragged Islams stinking body back into the pit from whence it came.
Make no mistake my brothers, we will win this war, no matter the sacrifice.
To Miriam Rove.
Your comments in this thread have displayed your ignorance, bigotry and hatred. Your comments here have displayed your willingness to behave as a drooling hyena being hand fed fresh red meat. Your comments here have not one iota of objective truth within them. Your comments here are simply regurgitation of lies, half-truths and propaganda that is so wilfully spread about the Catholic Church.
There are plenty of sites that will feed your need to hate the Catholic Church, may I respectfully suggest you find a proponent of Jack Chick. He's more your style.
In the meantime, to you and any other anti-Catholic bigot, please restrain yourselves if you want to be part of the solution to defeating the worst socio-political system mankind has ever known, ie Islam, instead of being part of the problem.
One thing that "mohamet" said was true - the Christians are always fighting. Let it not be the reason, again, that we fail.
I am an Atheist, but it would be rather charming to witness a New Crusade ripping through the Middle East; splendidly unlikely, I admit. Still, how utterly excellent would that be ? LOL!
Anyway: Our beautiful Western Civilisation must survive until the end of time itself, whatever the cost.
We must be a brotherhood; the pages of history will redeem us as the men who stood firm within the eye of the storm, who shone the light of truth upon Islam until it could bear no more. The men who dragged Islams stinking body back into the pit from whence it came.
Make no mistake my brothers, we will win this war, no matter the sacrifice.
Oh man! I've flippin double posted again! Apologies.
Oh man! I've flippin double posted again! Apologies.
"Leave the gun. Take the cannolis."
One of the great movie lines of all time....
Miriam,
As a Catholic myself, I don't agree with your conclusion that it was the Catholic faith that set up the Holocaust (the most heavily Nazi-supporting city in Germany, Breslau, was mainly Protestant - NOT Catholic). Indeed, many thousands of Catholic priests were also killed in concentration camps such as Dachau. And how many % of priests are paedophiles? Probably a few, but less than 10%. It's estimated to be 3% of priests in Germany. But does anyone say that it's a "tiny minority" of priests, the way they do with Muslim terrorists?
That said, I understand you, as well as many (most?) other people, are concerned with anti-semitism and paedophilia in the Catholic church. Understandable, given that these things DO exist, and given that the media focuses in on them all the time.
So - wakingwest, Christine Elkins, Marisol - can we have a bit of understanding please??? The counterjihad is a broad group - perhaps broader than any other. Linking Catholics, Hindus, atheists, non-Muslims and others together, there are bound to be differences of opinion on other issues. So can we not recognise this, and see that it's our opposition to Jihad that's the most important? Splintering will NOT do anybody any good (see LGF).
Sorry to see this has been the reaction, Miriam. Whether you choose to post more here or not, I hope that you remain strong and resolute in your beliefs.
OT
Hello England Rising. I like your defiant and optimistic take on things. Earlier, I posted on the UK and Sharia story. I am now reposting it.
Is the cure worse than the disease for the UK? If you are for the former, pepper your talks with "existential emergency". When asked, "What is to be done?", reply, "emergency ethics". Use the two double Es frequently so that they gain currency. If your cause is just and you are worthy a Churchill will arise.
If you choose the disease by not actively opposing the charge of the blight brigade then be prepared to answer your sons and daughters when they ask you, "Where were you daddy?"
Undaunted
Forbid that I so hold life as to become a dhimmi,
Traitor to man, mind, light, and the one Creator.
Shamed by those of iron will, the few undaunted
By faceless slaves of a lesser god, the Devil Allah.
Also, prepare for this.
The Martyrs
On a clear, moonlit autumn night,
as geese honk and wing to south,
gather soldiers and loved ones round,
around the campfire bright.
Talk of the ever desperate battles,
and the war, existential, not yet won.
Scorn the enemies, without and within,
the existers, whistling in no-man’s-land.
Soar as Icarus—it is your birthright,
and find strength in your very fragility.
You, bannered with Cross and the Star,
and those for life, mind and spirit right.
Cry for us, cry hard—now get on with it.
Be alive—vibrantly, as we once were.
If you will, raise a glass to us—the fallen:
Obedient to Our Martyr Oath unto death.
CanUke , April 2011, Sixth Draft
If you find the poems have merit spread them around.
From Pokermutt, a would-be poet of the counterjihad.
OT
Green Infidel brought up good points about the umbrella coalition. I also know, speaking in terms of ancient Greece, that there are Athenians and there are Spartans here. I am the latter.
Christianity is the most persecuted religion in the world at large. This isn't an opinion. It's a fact. Tired of Muslims and leftists and other assorted ignoramuses ignoring or denying this.
OT
And I have just heard from the Athenian. Almost ready.
Miriam, you really need to cool it with your assessments of the Catholic Church. Not helpful at all. Not in the least. Unnecessary and way over-the-top stuff. And ask yourself this: Would the world be a better place if every Muslim woke up tomorrow a devout Catholic or the other way around? The difference between these two hypothetical options, posed to you for instructive purposes, is a chasm of almost infinite proportions.
miriam rove:
A little less of the Persian azer.
@ "Green Infidel"
You said: "The counterjihad is a broad group - perhaps broader than any other. Linking Catholics, Hindus, atheists, non-Muslims and others together, there are bound to be differences of opinion on other issues. So can we not recognise this, and see that it's our opposition to Jihad that's the most important? Splintering will NOT do anybody any good (see LGF)."
Hear! Hear!
Your post came at an interesting time for me. I've been mulling over whether I can continue to support the counter-jihad with all the gay bashing that goes on. This site is better than most but still suffers from intolerance & hatred toward gays on occasion.
A long time ago I made a decision to support equal rights for gays and to confront hate & bigotry and misinformation when I saw it. So, it has been extremely difficult to witness the outright disdain & sometimes hatred for everything gay on most counter-jihad sites. Some blog owners even encourage & incite their posters to promote hatred of homosexuals. Many posters on these sites will use any excuse or no excuse to post something, anything disparaging about gays on a routine basis. I thought i could handle it and I thought it didn't bother me but after years of it on a daily basis I've come to feel very heavy & tired when I'm finished with my daily visits to counter-jihad blogs. Thus my questioning of whether it 's really worth my time & effort or not.
I'm not particularly religious so out of respect for others here I keep my opinions about religion to myself. I don't think this is the forum for it, except as it relates to islam. I wish everyone would keep their opinions of gays to themselves too, unless the topic at hand warrants it. I don't think this is the forum for it either.
Sorry for the long post but this had to be said and your post presented the perfect opening & timing.
Respectfully, when*pigs*fly, I've been posting here at JW for years and have noticed next-to-no gay bashing. In fact, if anything, many commenters have noted how very much in danger gays are in the Islamic world.
BTW, I support gay couples having inheritance rights tax free, hospital visitation rights and things along these lines, but I am completely against gay marriage, which I consider unnecessary and oxymoronic (as do many gays like Tammy Bruce and my former next-door neighbors who were a gay couple and who thought gay marriage absurd). Hope you don't consider this "gay bashing" on my part. Or is it the case that one accepts gay marriage or they're a bigot, for instance the Pope or Billy Graham?
If gays are for life with mind and spirit right, and do not seek unfair advantage over others, they are welcome to fight and die with me.
That is also something concerning, although I've not yet come across many anti-gay comments on counter-jihad sites. (the main sites I read are Jihad Watch, Atlas Shrugs and Gates of Vienna)
Personally, I'm not sure I fully understand such sentiments - surely more gays means more "choice" of partner for heterosexuals? Conversely, gays also need a pension, produced maybe 30 years from now, from children of heterosexuals. So maybe it's in the interest of hererosexuals for there to be more gays, and in the interest of homosexuals for there to be less gays? :)
Independent of this however, gays represent one of the Jihadis' main enemies and should be supported by all counter-jihadis... otherwise, are we really better than the bearded Jihadi fanatics?
Agreed that reading blogs takes a lot of time - and maybe even too much. Is it worth it? That depends on what you feel you get out of it, versus the effort you put in... Annoying people are everywhere - even on one's own side. Giving them attention usually means spending a lot of our most precious commodity - time... Irrespective of counter-jihad sites in general, perhaps it would be most "efficient" to stay clear of the blogs that irritate you the most?
@ Wellington
"I've been posting here at JW for years and have noticed next-to-no gay bashing."
I've had a different experience, in fact on another thread just the other day I was defending myself from someone who took offense to an innocent comment I made who then went on to say he'd like to have kicked me in the teeth because I "attacked" him at some point in the past when he said homosexuality is a perversion or some such thing. I don't remember the interaction and he provided no proof.
While this was going on another poster who is well known to me because of his gay bashing posts on Atlas and his penchant for including something, anything gay relevant in most of his posts here joined the fray and began accusing me of misleading things while he used the opportunity to gay bash again.
Toward the end of this interaction a third poster joined in and used the opportunity to favor us with an essay & scriptures proving why homosexuality is "evil".
Sometimes you have to be on the look out for specific items to notice them, or in the right place at the right time. I usually post very late in the day. And maybe because so few people confront the issue here it is not very noticeable. But as I said before this blog & Atlas are two of the better counter-jihad blogs when it comes to this issue.
As for gay marriage, I'm not for it or against it, I just think everyone should have equal rights to choose what they want.
And no, I don't consider it gay bashing, it's just your opinion. As for your last question, I don't know but it would be a good question in a forum dedicated to that topic.
Thanks for addressing my concerns.
@ "Pokermutt"
You said:" If gays are for life with mind and spirit right, and do not seek unfair advantage over others, they are welcome to fight and die with me."
I'm with you and no, I don't think they should have more rights than anyone else. That seems to be a concern with a lot of people.
If I'm in a battle I'm not going to berate the warrior at my side or ask him about his sexual predilections or anyhting else, I'm going to be grateful I have another warrior fighting with me and try to nurture that relationship instead of destroying it.
We need gays and feminists to speak up more forcefully on the issues giving rise to counterjihad. They must realize that the dominance of the macho male white class died with the last century. We are no longer the enemy that they have to fear; that's being myopic, dangerously and existentially so.
@ "Green Infidel"
Interesting observations:)
It has always struck me as completely ironic they way some counter-jihadists treat homosexuals considering how islam views them. Somehow the irony is lost on them.
As for choosing blogs, the only three that have the least gay bashing, as someone else pointed out , are Jihad Watch, Atlas & Gates. I think Vlad Tepes also makes an effort to keep a lid on it.
Yes , I will have to decide what is more important, how I feel at the end of the day or my commitment to prevent the islamization of North America, but I just can't continue carrying the weight of this every day & I can't simply ignore it anymore. All the bad news that islam "gifts" us with is difficult enough to deal with let alone the disdain (for lack of a better word) toward gays on top of that.
Regardless, whatever happens, I will always consider myself a counter-jihadist, I just might not fight back on a daily basis anymore.
To end, I'd just like to say, are we successful enough in our efforts that we can afford to alienate even one supporter in this battle?
Christian (and other relgions) patience will soon run out and when that happens, evil Islam will feel the wrath of the infidels. They won't find a rock to hide under. Make no mistake about it. I've heard that there are Christian churches in North America stocking piling arms and ammunitions.... I believe this. Patience my fellow infidels (Christians, Jews, Hindus, Buddhists, Jains etc., etc.) - we'll will have our day soon.
"To end, I'd just like to say, are we successful enough in our efforts that we can afford to alienate even one supporter in this battle?"
Hear hear! That's the bottom line - and what all "counterjihadis" should be asking themselves. Let's take a look at the number of "bad news" posts versus "good news" posts on JW or Atlas... I think that speaks for itself :(
As for not "fighting back" on a daily basis: if you use your time in other ways - such as working on your career, personal life, networking or improving health - that might even make you a more effective counterjihadi :) In fact, I'm also thinking of doing the very same thing.
But an occasional discussion or quick comment never hurts!
Equal rights to choose what they want? Hmmm. What if some man wants to marry four women and they want to marry him? Should they be allowed under the law? What if someone wants to marry his sister and she wants to marry him? How about first cousins? What if a woman wants to marry three men and they want to marry her? What if two brothers want to marry?
You see, when*pigs*fly, your approach is way too broad (excuse the pun) and doesn't take into account that the law is often about drawing lines. In fact, if lines aren't drawn and standards set, societal chaos, social anarchy, will quickly set in. The do-your-own-thingism is a yet aother idiotic leftover from that tragic decade which is the 1960s. Personally, I want something other than the totalitarian strictures Islam provides and the social, progressive model of the modern age which is anarchical overall. How about traditional values in conjunction with common sense as the standard? Or is this just too reactionary, too yesterday?
When pigs fly
when did you discover jihadwatch?
If you came on board after April 2007, you missed out on meeting one of our most brilliant, scholarly, witty and engaging posters, who died tragically in a car accident that April, leaving us bereft.
His name was Dominic Tabrar-Synge, he was a teacher, an archaeologist (just starting out on his academic career), and a staunch Resister of Jihad - he had seen first-hand what Mohammedans do, not only in Jerusalem and in Pakistan where he saw their absolute contempt for priceless archaeological sites, but also in the UK, where he suffered their aggression and contempt first-hand.
He was a believing and practising High Anglican, a devoted godfather, proud uncle... and very, very gay. And he is now - see the sidebar - one of, so to speak, the patron saints of this site.
I wish he had lived. He would have been in the GLBT Divsion of the EDL like a shot, waving the flag of St George with gusto.
http://www.jihadwatch.org/2007/03/dominic-rip.html
Had he lived, he would be right on board with 'England Rising' and other feisty English posters. He was very, very angry about what Islam was doing to Britain and about its worldwide assault upon civilisation in general.
Here are four of his most memorable postings.
First, to find his account of how Mohammedans were using lawfare and arm-twisting to silence churchbells, deep in the English countryside, click on link below and scroll down:
http://www.jihadwatch.org/2006/12/dhimmi-choirs-fall-silent-in-south-africa.html
necessitasnonhabetlegem | December 21, 2006 10:17 PM
'Giving in to the barbarian moslem horde is happening everywhere...'.
Secondly, here is his account of Mohammedan erasure of history in Pakistan, as witnessed with his own eyes (click on the link and scroll down - I'm including the date and opening lines of the relevant comment)
http://www.jihadwatch.org/2007/02/pakistan-asks-eu-to-look-inwards-to-stop-radicalization.html
necessitasnonhabetlegem | February 11, 2007 12:51 AM
'The government of Pakistan actually controls very little of that country - most areas outside the capital are effectively self-governing and respond only to military pressure from the centre..." (and it goes on from there, read it, it's heart-breaking and infuriating).
Thirdly, scroll down through this thread
http://www.jihadwatch.org/2006/12/culture-clash-in-denmark.html
to read of his own bruising personal encounter with Mohammedan supremacism and bullying, and the craven Dhimmitude of British officialdom, in the London Underground
but finally, on a more hopeful note: the memorable moment when he and his archaeologist friends fought back against Mohammedan thuggery and won.
http://www.jihadwatch.org/2006/10/government-doubts-threat-on-nfl-stadiums.html#c286743
@ Wellington
I'm not looking for an argument:)
Forgive me for not adding "under the law"
As for gay marriage, I'm not for it or against it, I just think everyone should have equal rights to choose what they want under the law.
Is that more clear?
No, quite frankly, it's not more clear.
Dumbledoresarmy - thank you for that post. The first 3 stories are truly horrifying stuff. I never knew that things were so bad in my former country of residence - Britain. But it vindicates my decision to "abandon ship" and leave (although where I am now in Eastern Europe, most people are puzzled as to why I decided to move. The exception being a 20-something lady who went to London - and worked as a cleaner for a "filthy" Arab family. Since then, she had a child with an Afghan who she met in Britain - who then joked about taking the child away from her, although luckily he cannot now receive a visa to reach her)
RIP Mr Tabrar-Synge. I wonder what he would have made of the state of the world circa 2012, had he lived...
Wellington: Christianity is the most persecuted religion in the world at large.
Unless you're jewish....
Wellington: This isn't an opinion. It's a fact.
Then it should be simple for you to post proof of a greater persecution committed against the christians than the Holocaust was for the jews.
Wellington: Tired of Muslims and leftists and other assorted ignoramuses ignoring or denying this.
And I'm concerned at the rhetoric on this site derailing the task in hand.
Foremost I am against islam. A secondary concern for me, as an Atheist, is religion in general.
Let's agree to deal with the more pressing issue of rampant islamification first, eh?
@ Wellington
I'm not sure what you want. I believe all citizens of a country should be governed by the same laws of the country. Everyone should have the same rights as dictated by the laws of their country. Anyway, I hope that does it because I'm done.
@ DDA
I think I discovered JW somewhere around 2007 but it might have been after Dominic's passing.
Thank you for the links, I accessed all of them. Dominic seemed like he was a very interesting person, his passing was obviously a huge loss to this blog and the counter-jihad.
It was a bit depressing reading his accounts as not much has changed since then, although I thoroughly enjoyed their take down of the "asian youth" in Britain.
I'm sure Dominic marches in spirit with LGBT division of the EDL.
OK, one at a time. I am fully aware of the rank anti-Semitism that exists in many places throughout the world, detest it and consider myself a Zionist though not Jewish, but right now in the world at large, in sheer numbers, Christianity is subject to ridicule and persecution in Africa, China, Muslim nations and very much so in the West as the butt of jokes and mockery. Even Judaism is not subjected in the West to the sickening ridicule and caricature that Christianity is on a regular basis. Nor are Jews being tortured or killed to the extent that Christians are, in large part because a very large majority of the Jewish population of the world is thankfully in safe havens like Israel and America while millions upon millions of Christians are not nearly this fortunate. I completely stand by my assertion that Christianity is easily the most persecuted (and mocked) religion in the world today.
The Holocaust was one of the greatest, if not the greatest, genocides in history. But that was sixty-five to seventy years ago. I was talking about the world today. If I didn't make this clear, I am doing so now.
The task at hand is indeed dealing with the worst religion man has ever forged---Islam. But there were comments on this thread which pilloried and slandered Christianity, and specifically the Catholic Church, which I could not let go unanswered.
I too am not religious, but it is in my nature to not let wrongs and false accusations go unmentioned and not questioned.
@ Wellington
"I too am not religious, but it is in my nature to not let wrongs and false accusations go unmentioned and not questioned."
On this we are in total agreement.
Equal rights for all, which is what you mentioned in your last post---"Everyone should have the same rights as dictated by the laws of their country"--- and thinking "everyone should have equal rights to choose what they want under the law," which is what you stated in your 6:28 P.M. post, are two very different things. You know this or should know it. It appears you don't. Done here.
@ Wellington
Perhaps I haven't been able to articulate what I meant. Those two statements mean the same thing to me. After thinking about it , if I had to say it all over again, regarding marriage I'd say " two individuals, of the age of majority, being in sound mind and not related ( except if the laws condone cousin marriage). All citizens should be governed by the laws of the land equally.
You'll have to forgive me because I struggle with vocabulary, spelling , typing, grammar & expressing my thoughts coherently as those areas were damaged by a couple of strokes when I was younger. I probably find it as frustrating as you.
@miriam rove: As a regular reader and occasional poster on this site, I am familiar with your posts. I must say that I am very surprised at your rant. As I am a Catholic, I am afraid that from now on I must lump you in with the rest of the anti-Papists that poison on-line forums with their uneducated, mean spirited screeds. I guess that it is something that we have to put up with. As a Christian, I will forgive you for the behavior you have displayed today, and pray for you. As an American of Irish descent, I will not forget what you said. Best of luck to you. Peace.
"I wish everyone would keep their opinions of gays to themselves too, unless the topic at hand warrants it. I don't think this is the forum for it either."
Okay but you raised the issue out of the blue on a thread where this wasn't even being discussed ...
...and I mean THIS thread, not that other one days ago.
@ champ
I think I explained that in my first post on this thread. I think it was relevant to the conversation.
I'm going to try to explain to Miriam what the problem is here in my somewhat limited Farsi in order to overcome his language barrier. I will also provide an English translation out of courtesy and convenience to the readers. Appologies for the long blocks of texts.
@ MIRIAM
Miriam chetori? Bebakhshid, farsi man aslan khoob nist! Ineh mikhooni, badan anchenon mikhandi as bisavadiye man!
Mikhastam ba shoma sohbat konam as ye irani be iranie digeh. Bebin, man mifaham vaghtike migi “free speech” moheme. Manam fekr mikonam free speech khaily moheme. Ma ke as ye keshvar omadim ke nemitoonim fekre khodemon dashtebashim, nemitoonim nafas bekeshim! In taksire dine zesht, aghab moonde va vahshi – Islam. Vali, in moheme ke bedooni , agar ye kesi website dareh, mitoonan “rules” bezaran barayeinke maleh oonast digeh! Agar mehmoon biyad khoneye man, bayad kafsheshoon ra bardaran, barainke in khonayeh mane, “rule” maleh maneh. Agar nakonaan, biadabiye. Rules mizaran injah ke website barayeh hameyeh mehmoon khoob bashe.Hameh injah miyan be in website mehmoon hastan, be hame migan befarma– Yahoodi, Masihi, Zartoshti, Hindu, Budhhist, bideenha, va oonha ke dige Mosalmun nistan. Shoma migi Catholic Church adam kosh hastan, va khaily karhayeh vahshi kardan zamaneh jange jahani dovom. In opinion maleh shomast ke mitooneh dashtebashi. Vali man fekr mikonam “media” khaily “biased” hast darbareyeh Catholic Church, ham doost daran dorugh began barinkeh yeh “anti-Catholic” agenda daran. Agar chand nafare Catholic kareh bad kardan, in taksireh Catholicism nist. Hichja nist to dineh Masihi ke migeh in raftar khoobeh ya in raftar ra mitoonan anjam konan. Agar “research” koni, mibini “media” cheghard cherto-pert migan. Areh, adamha “opinion” daran ke fargh mikoneh as hamayeh digeh – vali mah hameh inja hastim, ba hamdigeh, mesleh baradar va khahar, barainkeh as Islam negaran hastim. Khaily mamnoon ke in ra khondi.
Khoda-hafez!
---------------------------
Miriam how are you? I appologise, my Farsi is not good at all! After you read this, you will probably laugh at my illiteracy. I wanted to talk to you as one Iranian to another. Look, I understand when you say that free speech is important. I also believe that free speech is important. We both come from a country where you can’t have a mind of your own, where you cant even breathe. This is as a result of an ugly, backward and violent religion – Islam. However, it is important for you to know that when people have a website they set rules because this is their website. If a guest comes to my house I expect them to take their shoes off, because its my house, my rules. If they don’t do it, it is bad manners. Rules are also applied to this website for the benefit/good of all the guests. Everyone who comes to this website is a guest, and everyone is welcome – Jews, Christians, Zoroastrians, Hindu’s, Buddhists, Atheists, former Muslims etc. You say that the Catholic Church are killers and criminals and did very nasty violent things during WW2. This is your opinion and you’re entitled to it. However, I think the media is very biased regarding the Catholic Church. They enjoy spreading lies about it because they have an anti-Catholic agenda. If some Catholics have done bad things, this is not the fault of Catholicism. There is nothing in Christianity that says that their actions are good or their actions are sanctioned. If you do some research you will see what the media says is full of BS. Yes, people will have opinions that will be different from others, but we are all here together united out of our concerns regarding Islam. Thank you for reading this. Goodbye!
Miriam
I didn't realise you weren't a westerner. I was harsh on you as I thought you were, and as such should have known better. However, for a non-westerner, and particularly one from the islamic world, understanding the west is a challenge; getting a handle on our history difficult with so much propaganda parading as fact to wade through. So I apologise for my harsh words.
However, be particularly careful when you repeat what you have only heard about. Unless you have researched the issue, you'll more times than not just be repeating lies, half-truths and propaganda.
Here's one example. Non controversial, I hope. We in the west were taught that Christopher Columbus couldn't get finance for his journey to Asia as the Catholic Church taught that the earth was flat. Yes, actually taught this in school in the 20th Century. (And I was taught in a Catholic school). It's a LIE. This piece of bigotry came from an 1828 biography by Washington Irving. No, no educated person ever thought that in the 15th Century, nor going back to the time of Aristotle. They'd worked it out that the earth was spherical way back then. What they were concerned about was how far the nearest landfall was, and that the ship would run out of supplies before they reached it, and die at sea. At that time they had no idea about that.
There's more....Galileo, the Inquisition - probably what you think you know about these is simply not true and no authoriative historian would back you up.
You were incorrect on so many levels at your accusations above. However, those issues are not the purpose of this site and I'll not deal with them here or this thread will break Jihad Watch's record for comments :)
Hi when*pigs*fly -
Interesting exchange with @Wellington. The way I see it, if you pardon the "intrusion" - is that a society based on the time-honoured tradition of natural rights doesn't need the state apparatus to get involved in the bedroom/marriage/etc for the fallacious fantasy that there's a short-cut to improve the morality of the people through legislation.
Government meddling in the marriage business is that typically anti-Christian relict from the days of the French Revolution. Self-declared "conservatives" sometimes end up defending this interference and think it equals protecting the morality of society, while in fact it does not. If anything, it allows the state to expand beyond what was originally allowed under the Constitution. Neo-cons/progressives are chasing a fantasy, just like liberals, they only differ in what lifestyle they'd like the state apparatus to "defend", i.e. "empower".
And let me add, in case some Big Gov conservative interventionists wish to object, that not using the state to coerce people into some desired morality, does not in any way mean an endorsement of the way people freely chose to run their own lives. That's the old tradition of tolerance which can be found with Thomas Aquinas and other Church fathers and in Natural Law tradition, both in its Christian and Christian-Humanist (Erasmian) versions.
Kind regs from / Amsterdam /,
Sag
Wellington,
What transpired between me and when.pigsfly is for all to see. W*P*F besides being a liar is also pitifully unintelligent (to put it mildly) to hope a reader may rather trust w*p*f “interpretation” of the documented exchange rather than form an opinion based on reading that exchange.
I don’t know why he thinks I took offence on something he wrote. He wrote something I thought silly and I, having had in the past found him dishonest, vulgar and stupid, allowed myself to express my very short ironic observation about his comment. It was him who responded with indignation at my sarcasm. That triggered some exchange which you may follow if you wish.
In case you are not interested, and I quite understand it, let me only add that the “kicking the teeth in” business, had nothing to do with the last exchange, but with him implying in the past that my belief that homosexuality is a perversion reveals my affinity with Nazism. As you know I am from Poland where calling, or suggesting someone’s sympathy with Nazism is, for obvious reasons, not taken lightly. I was deeply offended an enraged by his obscenity and told him I wished he said it to my face, standing next to me, so I could try to kick his teeth in. Well, one can always dream when the real thing is not available.
w*p*f says “I don't remember the interaction and he provided no proof.”.
Here is the link to the original thing, so once again, anyone interested is welcome to link and form his own opinion.
http://www.jihadwatch.org/2011/03/despite-fears-of-an-increase-in-islamophobia-there-have-been-no-reports-anywhere-of-angry-gays-storm.html
Okay, seeing as this thread has completely gone off topic and onto same-sex marriage.....
Has anyone considered just what the essential public purpose of marriage actually is, and therefore, why it is in any way of interest to the government? This will be from a secular point of view.
The essential public purpose of marriage is to attach mothers and fathers to their children and to one another for the purpose of raising their children. So, the most important human right to be protected by marriage is that of the child, not the adults.
As same-sex relationships are not procreative, they have no need for a marriage contract. And that brings us to ART, artificial reproductive technology, whereby children are being treated as objects to be created for adults by demand. An ethical issue that is not being discussed as it should be. So thanks to "science" we now have women being treated as incubators, men as sperm banks, and babies as objects of desire to be purchased - wow, just like you'd buy a puppy at the pet shop. A frankenstinian dystopia indeed.
Put simply, life is not a Barbara Cartland novel with throbbing bosoms and bulging bosoms (put in your preferred throbbing/bulging bits here).
Without a doubt, Christianity is the most maligned belief system of the current age. I've heard Bill Mahr make anti Christian comments that would have been actionable under our hate speech laws- if the MSM wasn't 100% against ANY belief system other than their own-their own being 1. Obama is G-D 2. Global warming is the greatest threat to the human race 3. P.C. soaked Kum Bai Yaisms are actually rational thought in disguise.
I'm happy to work with ANY group- Catholic, Protestant, Buddhist, Hindu, Tribal Animist, Non beievers- that stand against Islam. And when the battle's over, we'll go our different ways. ANY group then attempting to impose their morality on me will become the next Islam.
Hi thomas_h -
Long time since we met over here. Hope you're doing well my friend!
Kind regs from / Amsterdam /,
Sag
Sagunto, amigo
Long time, indeed! I do hope you are doing fine!
I was doing a bit of traveling, spent some time in Mexico and India, read some and re-read a few books, watched with growing hopeful anticipation the problems of the Euro and EU and generally somehow couldn't find much inclination to throw in my two cents in JW. Thank God getting older doesn't require much effort, otherwise I would have been quite exhausted.
Feels good to point to my family/friends your and Wellington's crisp, bright, comments and mention nonchalantly; "I know these guys"...Does it make me a snob? Well, OK then
Take care, my friend
Thomas
I'm very glad that my Church if a bit late has called attention to the Islamic persecution of Christians.
My only criticism is that they don't also mention the Islamic persecution of Jews, Hindus, and Sikhs. But they might get all the way on board the freedom boat someday, I hope soon!
Thank you, Catholic Church!
I'm glad the Catholic Church is directly addressing Islam's hostility toward non-Muslim religions.
As for the current trend of demonizing all things Catholic, it's important to remember that the pedophile priests (and their defenders) and anti-Semites are acting AGAINST Church teaching, and that people who engage in those vile practices are guilty of grave sin. This is totally different from Islam, where devout Muslims are encouraged--by the Qur'an, the hadiths, and highly-regarded preachers--to participate in violent jihad, and to openly repress the basic human rights of non-Muslims (and Muslims who aren't "Muslim enough").
While both religions are made up of sometimes deeply flawed human beings, the question is: do immoral practices reflect the religion's doctrine, or oppose it?
And although the issue receives little publicity in the Western media, sexual abuse of minors by imams (and other non-Catholic clergy) is statistically just as common, if not moreso, than abuse cases within the Church.
But it's better to fan the flames of anti-Catholicism than to be politically incorrect.
Good to have you back here at Jihad Watch, thomas_h. I had thought of you from time to time and wondered where you had gone, but your comment to Sagunto cleared that up. Respecting the former exchange last March between you and w*p*f which you provided a link to, I would note that a hundred years ago or so it was virtually impossible to say anything in support of homosexuals or homosexuality and now it is virtually impossible to say anything against homosexuals or homosexuality. Seems freedom hasn't moved vertically but horizontally. Not sure this is progress. One thing I do know for sure is that you're no Nazi. Welcome back, my friend. Take care.
@ Thomas -h
Thank you for providing that link. I had totally forgotten about it.
It proves I did NOT call you a Nazi anymore than you saying (in your mind) homosexuality is a perversion displays hatred or disdain for gays. You can't have it both ways. I guess some people need to walk a mile in other people's shoes to get the real picture.
That said, had I not been assailed and peppered with ad hominem attacks I may have apologized for hurting your tender feelings about John's post, but that's NOT going to happen now. It's time to be a big boy and grow a thicker skin.
Since you decided to expose yourself, let me offer the exchange that set you on this rampage so others may get a clearer picture.
http://www.jihadwatch.org/2012/01/florida-jihad-suspect-brawled-with-christians-warned-on-youtube-to-convert-to-islam-before-it-is-too.html
Now that you have found the "offending" comment and "put me in my place" do not address me again...../sarc off
Thanks again to everyone who posted on this thread and exposed their true leanings.
You said back in March, w*p*f, that thomas_h would be better off at some Neo-Nazi site. If someone said that to me I would conclude that between being called a Nazi or being told I would be more at home at some Neo-Nazi site is essentially the same thing. It's a distinction without a difference.
@ Welligton
Sorry, I don't agree. IMO It meant his comments were more welcome at a neo-nazi site than at JW. I don't think this is the place to debate the pros & cons of homosexuality anymore than it's the place to debate the pros & cons of religion (islam aside). If I thought someone was actually a nazi I'd say so.
I'm absolutely confounded by people who use the mere mention of homosexuality as an invitation to share their negative views of it. Call it an opinion or call it whatever you want, it usually boils down to dislike, disapproval, hatred or some negative belief about it . I don't think counter-jihad sites are the place for it.
And if Thomas was so offended, why didn't he attempt to resolve the issue ( the neo-nazi site comment) at the time instead of waiting for the right moment to make a passive=aggressive attack? And why so many personal attacks?
BTW, I find the subjects of my posts that you choose to address and ignore to be very interesting.
I notice a double standard ...
"And if Thomas was so offended, why didn't he attempt to resolve the issue ( the neo-nazi site comment) at the time instead of waiting for the right moment to make a passive=aggressive attack?"
Okay now I'm observing another double standard from you. Notice that you were the one that raised this issue about homosexuality - completely out of the blue, I might add; on this thread - and ironically you did it in a very passive-aggressive manner yourself. But I doubt you'll see that. I also doubt that you'll see your other double standard of defending gay people, while hating everyone else for having a opinion other than yours. Hmm.
...for having AN opinion other than yours.
I don't believe, champ, that w*p*f is as open minded and tolerant as he believes he is. I think you share this opinion of mine.
On the specfic matter of homosexuality, while I personally don't care what a person's sexual inclinations are (unless they are for children), I don't see how a devout Christian can possibly sanction or give approval to homosexual activity, anymore than a devout Christian can sanction heterosexual activity outside of marriage. I don't share these Christian views but neither do I condemn someone like the Pope or Billy Graham for having them. But many do. It's their way or you're a bigot. You're not only wrong but bad. A symptom of the modern age.
Hope you're doing well, champ. Take care.
It appears that some people simply don't like being caught out. Enjoy your reunion of the "old boys club" and let me know when you tire of flogging me for my defense of homosexuals....yawn.....
@ Champ
And BTW these are the two comments that prompted my posts. Take them or leave them, I don't really care what you , especially you, think.
From Marisol:
"You brought in points in your original comment that were 1.) cheap shots against the faith that happens to be held by the people who keep the site going, and 2.) irrelevant to the topic at hand and the purpose of this site, namely, Islam and jihad. Hence my response."
Note: " irrelevant to the topic at hand and the purpose of this site". If this is true for religion then why not homosexuality? (rhetorical)
And this one by "Green Infidel"
""The counterjihad is a broad group - perhaps broader than any other. Linking Catholics, Hindus, atheists, non-Muslims and others together, there are bound to be differences of opinion on other issues. So can we not recognise this, and see that it's our opposition to Jihad that's the most important? Splintering will NOT do anybody any good (see LGF)."
Note: "So can we not recognise this, and see that it's our opposition to Jihad that's the most important? Splintering will NOT do anybody any good (see LGF)."
Projection is a very interesting condition. Perhaps you should look at how little it took for you to find a reason to post about the evils of homosexuality on the other thread before trying to condemn someone else?
Flogging you - where? That's an exaggeration. BTW, you chose to start this discussion and go off topic, and yet you don't like some of the responses you're getting? Hey that isn't how the world works. Please remove the chip from your shoulder and climb down from your hobby-horse. And weren't you the one that pointed out that this is an anti-jihad forum? Okay so stop going off topic then ...
You wrote ...
"Projection is a very interesting condition. Perhaps you should look at how little it took for you to find a reason to post about the evils of homosexuality on the other thread before trying to condemn someone else?"
What an exaggeration ..more to the point, that's a lie.
You're making very little sense by claiming that I'm projecting, and that my reasons for responding on that other thread was perhaps unnecessary and somehow out of place.
So if anyone is interested, here is the thread that *pigs* is referring to:
http://www.jihadwatch.org/2012/01/florida-jihad-suspect-brawled-with-christians-warned-on-youtube-to-convert-to-islam-before-it-is-too.html#comments
And here is the comment I made that *pigs* finds objectionable. You decide:
"Hi, since this thread is nearing the end, and the topic has veered somewhat into the topic of homosexuality, then I wanted to offer some food for thought on the subject to those who may be interested ...
Here is the link: http://carm.org/bible-homosexuality
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
What does the Bible say about homosexuality?
There are those who like to say that the Bible does not condemn homosexuality. Various verses are cited (out of context), and the verses that people use to show that homosexuality is wrong are explained away. The world wants to change God's words and meanings into something more suitable to its sinful desires. Nevertheless, the truth stands: the Bible condemns homosexuality as a sin. Let's look at what it says.
•Lev. 18:22, "You shall not lie with a male as one lies with a female; it is an abomination."
•Lev. 20:13, "If there is a man who lies with a male as those who lie with a woman, both of them have committed a detestable act; they shall surely be put to death. Their bloodguiltness is upon them"
•1 Cor. 6:9-10, "Or do you not know that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor homosexuals, 10nor thieves, nor the covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers, shall inherit the kingdom of God."
•Rom. 1:26-28, "For this reason God gave them over to degrading passions; for their women exchanged the natural function for that which is unnatural, 27and in the same way also the men abandoned the natural function of the woman and burned in their desire toward one another, men with men committing indecent acts and receiving in their own persons the due penalty of their error. 28And just as they did not see fit to acknowledge God any longer, God gave them over to a depraved mind, to do those things which are not proper."
Homosexuality is clearly condemned by the Bible. It goes against the created order of God who created Adam, a man, and then made Eve, a woman. This is what God has ordained as the normal means by which we carry out his command to fill the earth (Gen. 1:28). What God has set up is what is right -- not what sinful man sets up.
However, unlike other sins, homosexuality has a severe judgment administered by God Himself. This judgment is simple: they are given over to their passions. That means that their hearts are allowed to be hardened by their sins (Romans 1:24). As a result, they can no longer see the error of what they are doing, and then they go and promote it and condemn others who don't participate in their sin. So, without an awareness of their sinfulness, there will be no repentance and trusting in Jesus. Without Jesus, they will have no forgiveness. Without forgiveness, there is no salvation. Without salvation, there is only damnation in eternal hell.
What should be the Christian's response to the Homosexual?
Just because someone is a homosexual does not mean that we cannot love him (or her) or pray for him (her). Homosexuality is a sin, and like any other sin it needs to be dealt with in the only way possible. It needs to be laid at the cross and repented of.
As a Christian, you should pray for the salvation of the homosexual the same as you would for any other person in sin. The homosexual is still made in the image of God -- even though he is in grave sin. Therefore, you should show him the same dignity as anyone else with whom you come in contact. However, this does not mean that you are to approve of his sin. Don't compromise your witness for a socially acceptable opinion that is void of godliness. Instead, stand firm in the truth that God has revealed, love him/her biblically, and pray for his salvation.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
I wholly agree with Matt Slick's essay. Much love :)"
As others can plainly see you're exaggerating - again.
ps ...
The Bible doesn't even call homosexuality evil. The Bible calls it an abomination, so there is a difference. Which I happen to agree with.
But what *pigs* CONVENIENTLY leaves out from what I wrote the other day, is that I also mentioned that a Christian is responsible to love others. He has chosen to paint me one way by ommitting the love part, but as everyone can see, I also agree that Christians are responsible to LOVE.
*pigs* is lying by omission. He omitted an important bit of information about what I actually wrote, so of course I feel the need to defend myself ...
Yes, I do agree with you, Wellington, and I also believe that man has a free will ...and exchanges with *pigs* is like stepping into the twilight zone! He isn't bashful about lying by twisting what others have written, and his lies should not go unchallenged. Since when is speaking the truth about homosexuality wrong, and lying about others okay? Backwards, if you ask me. But of course he doesn't care what I write or think, since anything coming from the likes of me is positively unthinkable. Oh well, I stand by my above comment, and without apology, too.
And I am well, thank you! Always the best to you and yours, dear friend :)
correction: lieing, not lying ...jeez :)
Thomas_h, when*pigs*fly
A revealing thread, containing the previous confrontation. And one of those with a high risk of creating divisions.
Regarding Nazis, not only did they see homosexual acts as a perversion - they were also prepared to put gays into gas chambers, or prison, for their "crimes". There are plenty of things religion in general, and Catholicism in particular, finds immoral - homosexual acts is one of them. Abortion, masturbation, adultery and condoms are examples of others. Yet condoms have long been sold, even in "Catholic" parts of the world, without any Catholic mobs forming against them. So what are Catholics who oppose such things? Devout - maybe. Illiberal - definitely. But "Islamist" or neo-nazi is surely far-fetched?
Back to the crux of the matter - are these homosexual acts a "perversion", or something natural? That would depend on why we think we were endowed with the body parts in question - sex organs - in the first place. To use them purely to have fun? Or to make sure our genes didn't die out?
Catholicism believes the latter. Then again, Jesus also said "Let he who is sinless cast the first stone"... Any takers? :)
@ Champ
For god"s sake grow up. You don't wish to see past the nose on your face. If you don't like my explanation for going "off topic" as you call it, then tough!
As for lying by omission, I pointed everyone to the page with your original post. If THAT's not good enough for you, double tough!
Geez, have at look at what your real motivation is for this continued attack and try to be honest with yourself.
AGAIN, I stand by my statement that this should NOT be the forum for anti-gay rhetoric or supposed facts couched in phony love. If you don't like it or like the thread in which I chose to mention it.....I think you already know the answer. And enough of the personal attacks or I will be forced to lower myself to your level.
As for an abomination , I can think of several but not what you mention.
Fajnie tu widziec innego Polaka!!
Champ,
*pigs* is lying by omission. He omitted an important bit of information about what I actually wrote, so of course I feel the need to defend myself ...
Absolutely!
He is full of crude, pathetic lies and cheap shots - a wannabe Goebbels – that’s the man (man?) in the nutshell.
As I wrote in March (on the thread where he sends me to a neo nazi site for calling homosexuality a perversion) - a flying pig may be mistaken for a swan, it is only when it opens its mouth that its true identity is revealed. Pigs should not attempt to fly and talk at the same time.
Look at that:
“And if Thomas was so offended, why didn't he attempt to resolve the issue ( the neo-nazi site comment) at the time…?”
Resolving issue? How exactly one resolves issue with a nasty revolting liar, who is out of reach of one’s hands, except by calling him a nasty revolting liar? Had he stood next to me I would try to resolve the issue in a more convincing manner.
But the fact is that although I in the above mentioned thread called homosexuality a perversion I have never expressed my opinion about homosexuals in general.
I pointed that out to W*P*F with words : “Disapproving of the practice of homosexual perversion and insistence on its corrupting immorality doesn’t translate into hatred of homosexuals any more than disapproving of islam translates into hatred of moslems. “
To which he replied with amazingly incongruous:
“Your response proves my point. I am fortunate enough to think for myself and have resisted all religious brainwashing.”
“Religious brainwashing”? Does one need to be religiously brainwashed to see that homosexuality is disgusting and unnatural? Aristotle and Plato weren’t exactly religious, but compared the practice of sodomy to “dirt eating”.
Anyway, I responded with:
“OK, let’s have a look:
Your "point" is that you are “…dismayed to learn that Jihad Watch has it's share of gay-hating lurkers.”
To which I replied that “no one is hating “gays” here” , but quite a few reject the absurd idea that practicing a sexual perversion can be a good, normal, or moral thing.
Now, if THAT is "proving your point" then you either misunderstand, or willfully misuse the term “prove”. For most of us to prove is to establish the truth or validity by presentation of argument, or evidence. And you have presented neither. Which makes me suspect that you think your convictions are so far beyond criticism so the very act of challenging them is committing a hate crime, or blasphemy.
And then you are saying that you “have resisted all religious brainwashing”?
Well, you didn’t, you only embraced a quasi-religion.
It was that rather restrained and certainly not hateful reply that made him insinuating I hold nazi ideas.
Here he goes:
"Sexual perversion", that's hateful enough for me & others. Of course you are entitled to express your opinion even if it exposes you. ..But I don't think this is the forum for it. You'd be better accepted at any neo-nazi site."
He is too much of an intellectual slob to try to explain what it is about me that my opinion exposes yet he is sure this is not forum for it. He obviously thinks that since homosexuality is accepted and celebrated in liberal media, academia, education sector and entertainment industry, to reject it is a scandal. Of course, his tiny, (never washed by disciplined thinking brain) is of no use to explain why it is a scandal to reject the perversion of homosexuality, so he runs into the last refuge of a cornered moron and hurls a crude and stupid insult.
What a creep.
Take care, champ.
Rzeczywiscie!
Cala przyjemnosc po mojej stronie!
Pozdrowienia! :)
You feel attacked? I confronted your lies, so I don't care if you feel attacked. Your feeling attacked is small in comparison to what you attempted to do to me. You tried to present me in a very negative light; and so what if you provided the thread, you failed to provide the comment - hello! You clearly omitted information that fortunately I posted myself. Everyone can see what you tried to do, so get over yourself already.
And are you a mind reader? Of course you aren't, so don't presume to know whether or not I truly love people, or not. Again, get over yourself. I hate sin, but that does not mean that I hate the person. And if you don't know the difference, then you should.
Also, you chose to involve me in this conversation in your above comment @4:57 to Wellington, so of course I'm going to respond and defend myself. You wrote:
"Toward the end of this interaction a third poster joined in and used the opportunity to favor us with an essay & scriptures proving why homosexuality is 'evil'."
Hey if you didn't want to involve me and respond to you, then why write that in the first place, huh? What, you didn't think that I would know who you were talking about? What, you thought that I would sit down and just take your remark? No! Sorry, but you need to grow up and take responsibility for mentioning me in the first place, albeit indirectly.
Thank you, Thomas_h! Hey I had to defend myself against his/her attempt to put me in a bad light, so thank you for defending me as well. And the rest of your comment was really spot on! Yeah God's word exposes all sorts of sin - so we ALL stand exposed, in one way or another. Of course this exposure is intended to ultimately bring us to the foot of the cross of Jesus Christ, whereby we individually ask Him to forgive us of our sins, and then repent of those sins; which means turning from them. Much Love, take care, dear friend! :)
Dear Thomas_h ...of course you are none of those things, and I am going to report this abuse to Robert right now. Please do the same.
Dear Champ,
I hope you don't know Polish. You would be stunned reading the the most filthy obscenities authored by MissPiggy in her "comment" addressed to me. Language so vile, revolting and perverted one may only hear from drunk male brute.
I will have some difficulty conveying to Robert the sense of misspiggy's writing and the choice of words. Although he is a man I am simply too embarrassed to try to translate it for him. On the othr hand he must be made aware of the presence of this vile sick creature on his website.
thank you for writing to Robert on my behalf.
take care, friend
LOL, what a completely deluded bunch of a$$holes. Is that vulgar enough for you tommy boy?
Once again, this is not the place for negative comments about homosexuals. Those types of comments would be better geared toward a neo-nazi site or even an islamic site.
Birds of a feather.....
@ Miss Piggy
Thanks for your support.
No worries, I'm used to ignorant, deceptive, hypocritical homophobes and their attacks.
The only frustrating part is their insistence on ignoring the message , which usually comes with the belief that they are entitled to spew their disdainful opinions whenever & wherever they want without concern for the people they insult.
Stay well.
You're welcome, dear Thomas ...I did report the abuse, so hopefully Robert will remove the comment. And I have read other egregious comments made by mspiggy on other threads directed at you, so I am really surprised that she's still allowed to comment here. We'll see what happens, if anything. Take care :)
Perhaps in some remote corner of your brain you might comprehend the irony of excoriating a person for being narrow-minded while at the same time you yourself paint with a very broad brush by describing the bulk of an entire ethnicity ("most Poles") as being "extremely homophobic." Hopefully too you will see the additional irony of using a PC term like "homophobic" at a site where so many understand that another PC term, "Islamophobic," is used in an attempt to shut up people by defaming them. And then there is the final irony of both your nom de plume and w*p*f's being associated with swine. Yes, I hope this trinity of ironies is not lost on you, but I rather think it will be.
@ Wellington
Your last dig at me was very cheap shot but not the least bit unexpected:)
You're not fooling me.
@ Champ
I find it incredibly interesting that you, who are so comfortable with personal attacks would trumpet the fact that you have made a complaint to Robert about someone you accuse of making personal attacks.
A tad hypocritical, don't you think? (rhetorical, just in case you miss it like you did with the sarcastic comment from John)
Wellington,
And then there is the final irony of both your nom de plume and w*p*f's being associated with swine.
LOL! Perfect score!
The almost equally funny thing is W*P*F oink-oinking to MissSchwein something about "birds of a feather..."
It strikes me that all posters who have contributed to this thread thus far - especially all who have been most aggressive toward one another - should take ten deep breaths and then go back up and reread the posted article, nice and slowly.
What is happening is that in ten countries - one non-Islamic country (North Korea) which is perhaps the ugliest tyranny on the face of the earth (and that's saying something, considering it's competing with the Islamic hell-pits), and nine Islamic countries - are grossly and continuously violating human rights. Said countries are grossly violating the human rights of Christian - for no other ' reason' than that the Christians are Christians. As it happens, the nine Islamic countries are also places where you will be treated abominably if you are female, if you are a born-Muslim and try to leave Islam, or if you follow *any* faith other than Islam (or if you are an atheist), or if you are a homosexual who engages in consensual affectionate adult-to-adult relationships (sexual use, by a Mohammedan alpha male, of prepubescent boys or of males deemed inferior and therefore there to be violently dominated and humiliated, is not defined as homosexuality; see Bruce Dunne on sexuality in the Arab/ Muslim world).
While people are squabbling here on this comments floor and calling each other names, Aasia Bibi sits in a prison cell in Pakistan waiting to be executed. Her 'crime'? - stating to a bunch of Mohammedan witches who were pressing her to convert to Islam, that she liked Jesus better than Mohammed. For that, she is to be *executed* for 'blasphemy'.
And in Egypt and in Pakistan gangs of Mohammedan males are wont to snatch the wives of Christian men, and rape them, and declare them to be 'converted' to Islam; and the Mohammedan gangs seize unmarried Hindu and Christian girls, some of them minors, and rape them, and terrorise them, and 'convert' them to Islam, and the authorities *side with the kidnapper-rapist-pimps* and *will not* return the girls - some as young as ten or twelve or thirteen - to their frantic parents. Why? Because the girls are not Muslim, they are nothing more than prey animals, objects, things, and the Muslims can do what they damn well like to them. One girl was stolen from her family home, at gunpoint.
Let's reserve our anger and our psychic energy for what really matters: figuring out how to stop this utter sh*t from going on, and figuring out how to stop it from spreading and taking root in *our* countries.
No, I like pork, particularly BLTs and North Carolina BBQ. Thought you'd like to know. That's all.
Robert confronts lies ALL of the time, and that's exactly what I did with you, so I'm certain that Robert will agree with me; and if you choose to see confronting lies as a personal attack, then so be it. Knock yourself out.
I totally agree with you … I hope everyone have some heart and stop the harsh wards to one anther …
i am sure islam lovers readers, having nice time smirking in satisfaction at the fight between you
there is nothing wrong in ….''to agree not to agree''.
Thomas_h ...
I thought that you should know that on another thread "misspiggy" is on a smear campaign spreading lies about you and I. Here is the comment @5:35PM:
"If when*pigs*fly happens to read this,
I just want to say THANK YOU for your courageous comments yesterday (on a different thread). I know exactly how unpleasant it is to deal with such hateful homophobes as thomas_h or champ. Don't waste your precious time or energy on arguing with them. Their hypocrisy and hatred are evident for any intelligent person."
Here's the thread:
http://www.jihadwatch.org/2012/01/uk-muslim-arrested-for-distributing-literature-calling-for-hanging-of-gay-people-says-he-was-just-do.html#comments
I reported this abuse to Robert already ...also, I know that many of you do not approve of smear campaigns, so please support Thomas_h and I by speaking up. Thank you.
Agree with dda - this has gone way too much off-topic. Sorry to see I've been a part of "fanning the flames". This discussion should go to another website - maybe not a neo-nazi or Islamist one, but perhaps a religious one, or the website of a political party that likes to talk about these things (I can think of a few in both USA and Poland).
Can we all take a deep breath and think of one of the subjects of this report - Asia Bibi - in her cell in Pakistan? Is the cause of her and others in similar situations (including gays) being helped by this in-fighting??
champ,
Thank you for making me aware of the duo's polluting new thread with their vulgar lies.
I reported the Polish language collection of obscenities vomited by Misspiggy on this thread to Robert S. and I see it has been removed.
For a short while I thought of posting the google's translation of it into English, but simply was too embarrassed to do it. It was too dirty and revoltingly vulgar for me to touch. Incidentally, it illustrated the extent of her moral decay and the putrid state of her mind. Never in my life I heard a woman spewing such filth. Well, no wonder. Practicing a perversion perverts.
take care, Champ
Thomas
Dear Thomas_h ...I'm glad that you reported "Miss Piggy" to Robert and that he removed those egregious comments, but I'm a little surprised that he didn't ban her for it. Oh well, she's certainly on his radar now, so her time here will probably be short lived, since she doesn't appear capable of self control. And I'm sorry that you were dealt such obscenities. Wow, they must've been pretty gross - I can't even imagine. And after all the things that shes written about you and I it seems that she needs to sit down in front of a mirror and have a good, hard look. Everything she leveled at us is NOT true, but ironically very true of herself.
Oddly, these same discussions occur with certain muslims where the only tools in their bag-of-tricks are lies and insults to protect islam, which is the greatest of all lies, right? Obviously the same holds true for this poster. All she has to work with are lies and nasty insults - ironically, she uses these same tools to protect the lie that homosexuality is somehow normal and okay, but of course God's word states otherwise. Take good care, dear friend :) ..Hugz to you!