Today at Stonegate Institute (via RaymondIbrahim.com), I discuss what got the MSM so upset, and what many Muslims -- not to mention Americans -- believe: the idea that Obama is a Muslim:
Many in the media are indignant with Reverend Franklin Graham, head of the Billy Graham Evangelistic Association. Invited on "Morning Joe" last Tuesday to discuss Christian persecution, the hosts turned the focus to interrogating Graham on whether he thought President Barack Obama was Christian or not. Though the Reverend concluded that Obama "has said he's a Christian, so I just have to assume that he is," he appeared skeptical, suggesting Obama's policies disagree with Christian principles, and thus earning the full ire of much of the fourth estate.Read the rest.Intrinsically trivial on many levels, this incident nevertheless brings several important points to the fore.
First, Graham was absolutely right to say that, "under Islamic law, the Muslim world sees Barack Obama as a Muslim, as a son of Islam": according to Sharia, if one's father is Muslim, one automatically becomes Muslim. In fact, the reason behind last week's church attack in Egypt, when thousands of Muslims tried to torch a church and kill its pastor, is that a Christian girl fled her father after he converted to Islam: she did not want to be Muslim, and was rumored to be hiding in the church. (This would not be the first time in recent months that churches were attacked on similar rumors.)
Because of this automatic passage of Islam from father to son—with the death penalty for those seeking to apostatize, the condemned Iranian pastor being just the most visible example—and because Obama attended a madrassa (a Muslim religious school) during his youth in Indonesia, many Muslims are convinced that Obama is a "secret" Muslim. In a Forbes article, "My Muslim President Obama: Why members of the faith see him as one of the flock," writer Asma Gull Hasan elaborates:
[S]ince Election Day, I have been part of more and more conversations with Muslims in which it was either offhandedly agreed that Obama is Muslim or enthusiastically blurted out. In commenting on our new president, "I have to support my fellow Muslim brother," would slip out of my mouth before I had a chance to think twice. "Well, I know he's not really Muslim," I would quickly add. But if the person I was talking to was Muslim, they would say, "yes he is." …. Most of the Muslims I know (me included) can't seem to accept that Obama is not Muslim. Of the few Muslims I polled who said that Obama is not Muslim, even they conceded that he had ties to Islam…. The rationalistic, Western side of me knows that Obama has denied being Muslim, that his father was non-practicing, that he doesn't attend a mosque. Many Muslims simply say back, "my father's not a strict Muslim either, and I haven't been to a mosque in years." Obama even told The New York Times he could recite the adhan, the Islamic call to prayer, which the vast majority of Muslims, I would guess, do not know well enough to recite. [Read the entire article, which is more eye-opening than the author probably intended.]Another reason why many Muslims believe Obama is Muslim (a reason Ms. Hasan's article understandably omits) is that, under the Islamic doctrine of taqiyya, Muslims are permitted—in certain contexts even encouraged—to deny being Muslim, if so doing secures them or Islam an advantage. Accordingly, Islamic history is full of stories of Muslims denying and publicly cursing Islam, even pretending to be Christian, whenever it was strategic...
Because of this automatic passage of Islam from father to son— .......
Original sin proved!
Question to Robert Spencer
"Is Obama a Muslim?"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z3rh-LDXDVY
Scorcher, Buraq.
In Christianity, our yes is to be our yes, and our no to be our no, Matt. 5:37; James 5:12.
In the case of Obama, I'm from Missouri, Show me. "By their fruits shall ye know them." Matt, 7:16.
And I ain't be shown.
Shari'ah the Threat - Team B II Report
taqiyya: A Concept of Deceit that Security Professionals Must Know
"The rationalistic, Western side of me..."
-- Asma Gull Hasan (quoted by Raymond Ibrahim above), a basically irshan-manjiesque type "Moderate Muslim" (though decidedly less grotesque looking than the more famous spiked-and-henna-haired lesbian), in this Tariqian slip revealing (one half, the less important but unfortunately more distracting half, of) her unavoidable uniquely Islamic schizophrenia.
There is more to the honesty question than just "IS he muslim?" He has also said that he "has never been" muslim. Yet, we know that he studied in special classes for serious islamic students in Indonesia and that he was listed in the school records as a muslim. It is only natural, knowing that he lies about his past, to believe that he is lying about the present.
You simply cannot trust any Muslim. We must confront that fact. Our civilized countries are infiltrated by Fifth Columns. Gird thy loins.
Actually, the only Muslim in BO's family was grandfather, Hussein Obyango, and he was something of a jack Muslim at that. He converted to Islam because he considered the traditional animist faith to be backward and impotent in the face of Western colonialism. He also considered Christianity to be unmanly and dishonorable. So he picked Islam and its fierce, uncompromising rituals and laws because he thought it would make him the best and strongest Luo tribesman he could be.
It was never a full conversion to an Islamic identity, as evidenced by the fact that his son, BO, Sr was not required to be a Muslim himself, which he wasn't. He was a Marxist and atheist
My gut feeling tells me he is a muslim.
And my guts are NEVER wrong
Remember when obama slipped and said "my muslim faith" during an interview with George Stephanopoulos?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XKGdkqfBICw
Him being a muslim is just one more reason why I despise the ignorant P.O.S.!
(calm down, EZ......calm down)
I remember that interview.
How effortlessly that comment, my muslim faith, flowed from his lips.
I am incredibly skeptical as to his professions as to his being a Christian.
I watched the entirety of this interview, it may not be possible to witness a clearer example of a modern day inquisition, this time around with the examiners and accusers belonging to the loony msm ‘left’ ganging up on their outnumbered victim Reverend Graham, who by the way, elicited their visible and hardly contained ire as he responded with the heretical truths of obozo’s actions versus his rhetoric demonstrating something other than a Christian belief or virtue. You will notice for example how his media propagandists all completely remained silent, did not respond , just starred in a daze, the times reverent Graham mentioned things such as all the killing and murdering by mulsims right now taking place all across the globe and obozos to date, silence and strange paralysis in any attempt to help these Christians. See the video for yourselves that testifies to the depth of crassness if not complicit evil these obozo propagandists exhibit as they indoctrinate the American public with their secular leftist religion.
http://www.youtube.com/user/islamkillsAmericans?feature=mhee
AT THIS MOMENT THE MOST DANGEROUS PERSON TO AMERICA, ISRAEL AND WESTERN CIVILATION IS = OBAMA. IF MUSLIM, THE DANGER WILL MULTIPLY THOUSANDFOLD. IF RE-ELECTED (VERY POSSIBLE), GOODBYE USA.
"...he appeared skeptical, suggesting Obama's policies disagree with Christian principles, and thus earning the full ire of much of the fourth estate."
Reverend Franklin Graham makes a good point as to why obama may not be a Christian--so it's no surprise to me that he appeared skeptical ...
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
But Reverend Don Hamer, on behalf of the Christian Anti-Defamation Commission, gives 7 good reasons as to why obama is NOT a Christian:
Reason #1: http://www.christianadc.org/resources/seven-reasons-campaign/62-reason-1
Reason #2: http://www.christianadc.org/resources/seven-reasons-campaign/63-reason-2
Reason #3: http://www.christianadc.org/resources/seven-reasons-campaign/64-reason-3
Reason #4: http://www.christianadc.org/resources/seven-reasons-campaign/65-reason-4
Reason #5: http://www.christianadc.org/resources/seven-reasons-campaign/66-reason-5
Reason #6: http://www.christianadc.org/resources/seven-reasons-campaign/67-reason-6
Reason #7: http://www.christianadc.org/resources/seven-reasons-campaign/68-reason-7
Here: http://www.christianadc.org/resources/seven-reasons-campaign
~~~~~~~~~~
Even if you are not a Christian, you will find these 7 short videos informative about our president; especially with the upcoming election.
I don't believe Obama is a Muslim.
Remember when he first came in - he said that his father thought Islam was hocus-pocus - but with the even more severe politically correct atmosphere - you probably would not hear that coming out of his mouth now.
I think he is trying to use normal western logic - when dealing with Islam - and so many people fall into that trap.
As a Muslim person is as normal as anyone else - it can be difficult to comprehend - that Islam could teach its believers so many reprehensible things - as standard - especially if compared to Christianity.
Islamic Spain
As far as things being Islamic - look at Spain - people in North Africa - and the same sentiment is expressed in Muslims across Europe - believe that because Spain was Islamic - that it still is - an Islamic territory.
The Slavery of Islam
Like there is the concept of ownership of women, there is also the concept of ownership of people and as with Spain - of places.
Obama travelled to Egypt - we know that if he had lived in that country - he in his adult years would have been imprisoned for going to church - having had a Muslim father - even an absent one. As there [2008] two 30-something year old Christian sisters were imprisoned - for 3 years each, their marriages to Christian men annulled and their children and their children's children the court told them would all be Muslim - who's father converted to Islam when they were little and concealed the fact - for a quickie divorce.
Others with Muslim lineage
The London mayor's great grandfather was of Turkish origin - and apparently knew the Koran by heart - who is now married to a half Hindu woman.
Somewhere in there we are going to have to put the impolite gestures up to Islamic law.
But I think Islam has seriously met its match with the west.
What does Obama see in Islam
Truth be told - I do think Obama sees some weird value in the Islamic religion - for example - Islam is supposed to be presented as for the knowledgeable - obviously knowledge gained through conquest - and held over the less knowledgeable - or ignorant others - that today looks like an out of day encyclopaedia - which perhaps can still be admired but is of little or no use.
He could be somehow attacked to the supposedly higher knowledge of Islam - which has swindled many intelligent man.
I think he is terribly idealist when it comes to Islam - but I think he would do well to remember what his father said about it.
It's talismanic - rabbit's foot faith, which focuses almost entirely in on itself - to bring advancements - but in actual fact gained virtually everything that was added to it through conquest.
Its the Wizard of Oz. People make the pilgrimage to Islam - in all seriousness - to get what they already have.
Converts from Islam on the Rise
In future there are going to a lot of people leaving the religion - and I think there should be respect for them. In Iran people are leaving it. Look at the forums, people are secretly leaving it. And the Christian satellite broadcasters, say that there are many more people tuning in than there are reported Christians - in the Middle East.
::
I'm holding out!!
I don't think Obama knows how to be a Muslim - he doesn't know how to see himself as superior for one.
What is on display is more idealism than supremacy.
People believe Obama is Muslim because he was a practicing Muslim. This matters because Obama is now what Islamic law calls a murtadd (apostate), an ex-Muslim converted to another religion-- who (under sharia law) is subject to the most severe penalties. Obama's apostate status clearly has enormous implications for his relationship with the Muslim world.
Confirmed: Barack Obama Practiced Islam
http://www.danielpipes.org/5354/confirmed-barack-obama-practiced-islam
In sum: The cited evidence demonstrates that Obama was an irregularly practicing Muslim who rarely or occasionally prayed with his step-father in a mosque. This precisely substantiates the assertion that Obama for some years had a reasonably Muslim upbringing under the auspices of his Indonesian step-father.
Therefore, what Quislings consider a media falsehood is in fact confirmed by evidence as truthful and accurate. The fact that so few understand this about Obama is a testimony to the Obamedia puppets disinformation and denial campaigns.
Denying Obama's Muslim heritage is in itself a falsehood.
Since Obama's father was a Muslim, his son becomes a Muslim by birth. This is why it is halal for a Muslim man to marry a kuffar woman while it is haram for a Muslim woman to marry a kuffar man.
It is similiar to Obama's dual citizenship. His father was a British citizen (Kenya had not yet become a independent country) and so, at birth, Obama possessed both British and American citizenship.
According to Jewish law, if one's mother is Jewish, you are a Jew even if you are a non-practicing Jew or an atheist; you are still a Jew. If a Jew converts to Christianity, he or she is still a Jew. He is an apostate Jew.
According to Islamic law (as R. Ibrahim wrote) above, a man whose father is Muslim is himself a Muslim, even if like Obama he is a non-practicing Muslim. Obama is a Muslim. Christians do not hate Israel, nor do they seek Israel's destruction, because they worship the Holy One of Israel. Christians believe God will establish His throne on Mount Zion in Jerusalem, at one point called the City of David. It will not be a mosque. Allah is not the God of Israel.
I do not believe Obama's professions to have converted to Christianity. I do not accept that his twenty year spiritual mentor, the racist proponent of Black Liberation Theology, Reverend Wright is a Christian. Mr. Obama's June 2009 speech to the ummah at Al Azhar University (Cairo, Egypt) - where he repeatedly referred to the "holy" Qur'an, where he boasted of having known Islam on three continents before coming to the place where it was first "revealed," where he blessed (he said PBUH) Jesus as one of the dead prophets, etc. - was further confirmation Obama identifies with Islam and not Christianity.
Mr. Obama knows the Athan?
That is incredibly revealing...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wz_EGqmxmuU
"Allahu Akbar, Allahu Akbar, Allahu Akbar, Allahu Akbar. Ashhadoo an la ilaha illallah, Ashhadoo an la ilaha illallah, Ashhadoo anna Muhammadur Rasulallah, Ashhadoo anna Muhammadur Rasulallah, Hayyaa' as-Salat, Hayyaa' as-Salat, Hayya al-Falaa' Hayya al-Falaa', Allahu Akbar, Allahu Akbar, La ilaha illallah."
Sounds like a Muslim to me... Mr. President.
Don't you know calling him a Muslim makes you a racist and a bigot. The MSM and the followers of NUTTimes(actually NYTimes) will raise such a hue and cry to make you and out caste. Morons they are and they will remain so. They cannot investigate any aspect of big O and really give journalism a bad name!!
"Oh, the shark has pretty teeth dear
And he shows 'em, pearly white"
Obama's destructive policies which have directly or indirectly led to the enslaving of millions of people and the deaths of thousands (women primarily, religious minorities secondarily) are the result of left wing naivety and political correctness. With those intellectual deficiencies comes a willful ignorance with regards to human nature and the #1 enemy the free world faces.
No muslim tag is required to explain everything he has done. And last I checked, in America you are free to choose whatever religion you choose to believe in or no religion at all. It's called freedom.
The reason why the tag "Muslim" is being applied to him is common sense. One who is born to a Muslim is a Muslim. Those that say the Shahada are Muslims.
He claims he recited the Azaan which contains the Shahada in it. It is thus reasonable to tag him with the label Muslim, becuase the Shahada, which he proclaimed, entails one's profession of faith in Islam.
A-HA!!!
Ima
Here's a thought: Obama really doesn't know what he is. He's shallow enough (yes, he's shallow and this is the real key to understanding him I believe) to think he can probably be both a Muslim and a Christian or, even worse (yes, even worse), "spiritual" rather than religious (don't you just want to wretch when someone tells you they're a spiritual person but not religious?).
Do not overestimate this man. He is clever in a tactical, Chicago-politician kind of way, but there are vast expanses of his mind which are devoid of significant knowledge and wisdom. Remember, he said he didn't know what the term is in Austrian (yes, he thinks Austrian is a language---YouTube it); said that Lincoln was a founder of the Republican Party (no he wasn't; he didn't leave the dying Whig Party and join the Republicans for some two years after the Republican Party was founded); confused Memorial Day with Veterans Day before a stunned audience of veterans in New Mexico in 2008; stupidly commented on the Professor Gates case before all facts were in, which led to the hurried beer summit; had to have what the capital gains tax really was explained to him by the moderator in the 2008 Presidential Primary debate held at Drexel University in Philadelphia; referenced the "57 states (oh yeah, this one's a winner); called the Nittany Lions the "Nittaly Lions" (again, you can YouTube this one) and on and on and on.
With due deference to what Benjamin Disraeli said about one of his political opponents, I would assert that Obama has a dearth of ideas, none of which are original and almost all of which are wrong. Whenever you're tempted to think there's more to Obama than meets the eye, think exactly the opposite, that there's less, and you'll be pretty close to home plate on this one. Count on it.
And so I'm fully sympathetic to Franklin Graham's uncertainty about exactly what Obama is religiously since even Obama really doesn't know.
From Ibrahim's article:
"...the hosts turned the focus to interrogating Graham on whether he thought President Barack Obama was Christian or not. Though the Reverend concluded that Obama "has said he's a Christian, so I just have to assume that he is," he appeared skeptical, suggesting Obama's policies disagree with Christian principles, and thus earning the full ire of much of the fourth estate."
Ibrahim says:
"Intrinsically trivial on many levels, this incident nevertheless brings several important points to the fore."
Intrinsically, yes, but much can be explained extrinsically, which provides us a window into something not trivial, but monstrously important, and central to understanding the man called Hussein.
1.) It is indeed, trivial, whether or not we, or Rev. Graham, or the Water Carriers at Morning Joe, or "lax Muslims", or anybody else believe Obama is a "secret" Muslim (and whether or not those nominal Muslims believe it to be true or not). In the context of "Morning Joe" mentality, the meme is to discourage and villify any talk of Obama being a Muslim, or for that matter (and on the same contextual level) being ineligible for the Presidency for supposed reasons of birthplace/naturalization. That "question, itself, is trivial, as well. The ganging-up-on of Graham is standard "Group Alinsky Think". And that is not, extrinsically trivial, at all. It is plain to see that the hosts are attempting to set a trap for the Reverend - a cynical, posturing, Supremacist/Statist trap.
But why? Well, that's easy. And again, we simply have to look at the extrinsic effect to comprehend:
2.) Obama is in deep, practicle (not religious, or supposed religious) trouble, politically. He stepped into a hornet's nest when he became President and was confronted with the harsh demands of dealing with American armies involved on two fronts in the Middle East. His campaign for the Presidency hinged greatly on promises of ending the wars.
But we may "know" him by his deeds...drones. Obama is not a secret Muslim anymore than he is an-empty-suited Black Liberation Theology "Christian".
What Obama is, is a complete Political Animal.
While I believe his policies and statements are heavily lacquered in Black "Theology", and ought to be considered extrinsically, as part of the sum of his present standing -what is more crucial to see, is that Obama will use, reject, co-opt, boondoggle and claim anything that will keep him in power. He, himself, doesn't care whether he is Muslim, Christian or Caveman - as long as he geets re-elected and sets the statist wheels deep enough into the ditch to "transform America".
He is the most "consummate" political animal in history, besides perhaps Julius Caesar, who mastered the craft, but failed miserably at the art of Politics.
_______________________________________
Obama is not a Muslim (except according to Sharia - grandfather, father = Obama the son), nor is he a Christian. He is neither/nor, depending on the prevailing winds...
we must both be psychic...wow! just wow!
The question Rasool Obama would stand on his head not to answer...'Do you believe Allah is God, and Mahound his messenger?
Not only Barack Obama Senior was of Muslim background - Barack Obama Jr's stepfather Lolo Soetoro was a Muslim - and Obama Jr was enrolled into Jakarta's Fransiskus Assissi Catholic primary school, with his religion noted down as "Muslim". One of Obama's half-brothers in Kenya is also a strict Muslim with 3 wives... where did he get his religion from if not his father?!
yet despite all these gaps of knowledge, President Obama can recite the Azaan (Islamic call to prayer) in perfect Arabic.
"57 states"
-I don't know if this has been noted elsewhere, but 57 is the number of Islamic states in OIC. (56+Palestinian Authority)
Kinda shows where Hussein's thinking is.
Yes, David, we seem to be on the same grey matter wavelength respecting Obama---and other things. Hope you're doing well.
Well, Green Infidel, even idiot savants can impress at times.
Thanks Cole - this is one of the more rational responses to the question that seems to obsess so many Americans. From everything that has been reported of Obama on the subject, my overall impression is that he is not a Muslim per se but, at best, an indifferent Christian. Apart from Obama's usual spin for public (political) consumption, I don't think religion is that important to him - or if it is, he rarely gives voice to his personal beliefs. As Graham claims, he has said he is a Christian, but he hasn't been exactly convincing about it either.
For the record Obama was NOT enrolled in a Muslim school (known as 'pesantren') in Indonesia. In the 1970s he was enrolled in a Catholic school in Java - not unusual at the time as many wealthy Muslim Indonesians sent their children to Christian-run schools if they could afford it. It's nothing remarkable as all European or mixed race kids (with wealthy parents) in Indonesia attended such schools - not the Muslim pesantren.
Obama also regularly attended the mosque with his Indonesian stepfather, Santoro, who also enrolled him at school and filled in the form claiming young 'Barry' to be Muslim. Given he was 11 or 12 with a Muslim 'dad' it would have been assumed that he was a Muslim too. At the time this too is a pretty typical attitude for Indonesian (Muslim) males - they are just a tad misogynistic - as Obama's mom soon found out. Since returning home to Hawaii with mom when he was about 15, there is no record of Obama ever attending another mosque let alone a Muslim school.
While Obama can recite a number of Muslim prayers - I would think it no different to any of us being able to recite the Lord's Prayer etc, after attending church or Sunday School at the same age - hardly evidence of his 'real' religion!
These are simple facts and quite separate from the issue of whether Obama gives Islam and the often outrageous behaviour of Muslims a free pass. Maybe he thinks his own experience of Islam gives him some special knowledge or appreciation of Islam and that he can appeal to or even reason with Muslims, as his actions on so many occasions seem to indicate.
But of course the readers of Jihad Watch know that the belief you can treat with Islamic supremacists or even 'moderates' (whoever they are!) - is just wishful thinking if not pure fantasy.
As if the US President bending over backward to please Muslim supremacists would ever get any concessions from them! As we are now all too familiar, such actions are usually viewed as a sign of weakness. But Obama won't be told 'cos he ain't listenin' - he KNOWS Islam right?
And that's his major fault, not being born to a non-practicing Muslim deadbeat father who abandoned him as a infant or being raised for a while by another whose treatment of his mother caused her to flee back home when he was still a teenager. In light of those facts, I would argue that questions about Obama's religion are largely irrelevant.
Nicely done, DD, you nailed it. Barack's a real nowhere man. Sitting in his nowhere land.
Making all his nowhere plans. For US, his victims!
Sorry, Green Infidel got it right - Obama's Indonesian stepfather was Seotoro, not Santoro. And it was the Dutch Catholic St Francis of Assisi school he attended.
"He's shallow enough (yes, he's shallow and this is the real key to understanding him I believe) to think he can probably be both a Muslim and a Christian..."
Remember the report of the Episcopalian minister from Seattle who thought of herself as "both Muslim and Christian" (reported on Jihad Watch back in June of 2007, relaying a story from The Seattle Times) -- roughly the same PC MC disease, I'd say.
"...or, even worse (yes, even worse), "spiritual" rather than religious..."
The two sets of promiscuities would go hand in hand, more often than not, as they both derive from the same primeval soup of PC MC -- always served fresh and a la carte at the Comparative Religions Cafeteria, and the most popular item (no doubt full of organic ingredients supporting local farmers as well as beans from distant El Salvadorean farmers oppressed by the CIA).
"...(don't you just want to wretch when someone tells you they're a spiritual person but not religious?)."
To my Left-of-Center friend's credit, when he heard my other friend, a flaming Leftist (don't ask me why I have so many Leftist friends) but paradoxically also a devout Greek Orthodox, remark "I would say I'm religious, not spiritual" -- he responded "That's so refreshing! You never hear that these days! You always hear the opposite!"
To be clear, when I referred to the two "promiscuities" (Muslim/Christian, what's the difference?) and "spiritual"/"religious", it must be kept in mind that all those idiots who think "spiritual" is somehow okay while "religious" is bad are only thinking of White Western Religion. When, however, religious is perceived to pertain to a preciously Ethnic People (and the most precious in our time is that of the Muslims), it suddenly acquires a glow of admirable qualities and inviolable respect.
Even sans the Muslim angle, innumerable Western PC MCs who scowl and snarl at the Catholic Pope suddenly get all warm and tingly at the Dalai Lama, even though he's the head of a Religion with more religious claptrap (both liturgical and symbolic) than nearly any other religion on Earth.
Why do we care what sharia ruling is regarding obama's religion? We do not give a damn about the sharia or what muslims think about obama. Obama has stated that he is a christian. He attends church. His family attends the church. That should be good enough for us.
When so many people are apostatizing from islam why this urge to make a man who practices christianity a muslim?
Wellington, Wildjew, and Lemonlime:
As usual, I think that Wellington's comments on Obama's "shallow" characater and intellectual vacuity hit the nail on the head.
Wildjew, I've said many times before that Obama's use of "PBUH" after speaking of Jesus shows a fundamental lack of appreciation for fundamental Christian doctrine concerning the person and work of the Messiah.
Lemonlime, I also thought your comments on "promiscuities" was spot on.
Frankly, though, while I find the discussion insightful, we need to get the message out to a wider public. After all, the O has a very subservient and ga-ga media at his beck and call.
Kepha,
The problem is, the wider public contains millions who would, at worst, warm up to Obama's insidious insouciance, and at best, shrug their shoulders. For example, many of the objections which Don Hamer raises in the videos which champ linked above in her 12:10 PM post -- particularly what he objects to in videos #1 and #2 -- would make many people in America, and the West, go "So? What's wrong with that?"
For example, Hamer cites an interview in which Obama said "I believe that there are many paths to the same place". That kind of New Agey drivel has become unremarkably mainstream throughout the West. Then Hamel cites another Obama quote: "All people of faith -- Christians, Jews, Muslims. Animists -- knows [sic] the same God." Not only is this standard mainstream fare throughout the West, it also comports with official Catholic pronouncements made by the Pope during Vatican II, e.g.:
...the Mohammedans, who, professing to hold the faith of Abraham, along with us adore the one and merciful God...
I don't believe Obama is a Christian or a Muslim. He is an atheist just like all his friends on the left. Let me just through this out for consideration. There is a world leader coming according to Judeo/Christian prophecy who will bring great persecution upon the people of the book (Jews and Christians). Obama so far is filling these prophecies quite well.
back in 2008 I said here obama was a muzlum and got pummeled - just sayin'
Obama, muslim or milsum, is trying hard to turn all Americans to muslims and all muslims to Americans !!
I don't think Obama knows how to be a Muslim - he doesn't know how to see himself as superior for one.
Huh?! The arrogant prick thinks he is God! That sounds like a superiority complex to me. Obama is Satan incarnate.
"Son of Islam"...no...."Son of Satan".
Sired by a muz male = muz.
De jure status is not conferred under US law. But under sharia tyranny, Hussein Obama IS part of the muz horde.
"I on the other hand do not how belonging to any religion describes your morality or moral character."
What is your explanation for Muslims imprisoning and often killing Muslims who decide to change their religion?..
"I on the other hand do not how belonging to any religion describes your morality or moral character."
Correct with the exception of Islam.
Indeed, "good moslem" - I mean someone who love and worship and, whenever possible, follow the example of a sadistic murderer, rapist, pedophile, thief and liar must per definition be profoundly morally corrupted. He is filled to the brim with hatred of the Christian, Buddhist, Hindu and Jew, Hindu as he can't turn off that nagging awareness that in the eye of the Infidel his "most perfect man" is and always will be the most evil men that ever walked the surface of the earth.
There are verss which are deemed immoral because they harm other persons and are against human rights but that does not mean the entire Quran or Bible is immoral but only certain elemnts of it.
A follower of the Cult of Satan is making a judgment on morality of the Bible and, probably, expects to be taken seriously. Very silly, but not exceptional and quite safe.
What is exceptional is that F.M. avers the koran is not perfect as it contains certain immoral verses.
Wow! Although I don't really like you, F.M., I hope you are not going to share your opinion with a good moslem. You can't be THAT silly.
Cluebat: Obama's lies of omission are evil.
Q: Why can't Obama simply be honest about his murtadd status?
A: "War is deceit." Bukhari (52:269)
People believe Obama is Muslim because he was a practicing Muslim. This matters because Obama is now what Islamic law calls a murtadd (apostate), an ex-Muslim converted to another religion-- who (under sharia law) is subject to the most severe penalties. Obama's apostate status clearly has enormous implications for his relationship with the Muslim world.
Confirmed: Barack Obama Practiced Islam
In sum: The cited evidence demonstrates that Obama was an irregularly practicing Muslim who rarely or occasionally prayed with his step-father in a mosque. This precisely substantiates the assertion that Obama for some years had a reasonably Muslim upbringing under the auspices of his Indonesian step-father.
Therefore, what Quislings consider a media falsehood is in fact confirmed by evidence as truthful and accurate. The fact that so few understand this about Obama is a testimony to the Obamedia puppets disinformation and denial campaigns.
Denying Obama's Muslim heritage is in itself a falsehood.
Fayzal
Kindly take your head out of sand and try to see … really see … you know what that means
You actually have to open your eyes … FAYZAL … or may be you it not that … you just lying to server your e
You say; any president, does not matter what he believes in, could DO his job as a president according to all Laws WITH OUT THE EFFECT OF HIS PERSONAL BELIEVES …
THAT IS SO WRONG
And the biggest most stupid idea I have seen for a long time … and I have seen a lot … I was a Muslimah …remember that .
Do you see how the Ayatollahs and the kings of Saoudi Arabia and all the Muslim Kalifahs who rolled Muslim countries for 1400 years, how do they role and what the effect of their rolling …
Are they, or are they NOT applying * Islamic sharia *… *Islamic roles*
or at least Islamic mentality … the answer is *YES*
Humans are product of their believes and they will act according to their believes and you should know that …
Muslims are two kinds….
the clueless and the deceivers
Which kind are you Mr Fayzal ?….
@ Fayzal
You wrote: 'A persons morality or moral character is not determined by his or her religious beliefs or philosophical beliefs but rather by his or her actions.'
So, Mohammed attacking caravans, ordering his critics to be murdered, having sex with a child bride, overseeing the murder of around 800 bound prisoners, and other crimes, were actions that had nothing to do with his religious beliefs ....?!!
Are you being serious? Thousands of suicide bombers commit their grisly crimes as a direct result of their Islamic beliefs. There are videos left behind for all to see and hear of these guys explaining chapter and verse why they are going to murder innocent men, women and children in the name of Islam.
You're a clown!
Don't like Jihad Watch? ..then start your own forum.
Your "friends"? ...okay move away from the laptop and stat!
I observe our latest Mohammedtroll in a mask has refused to respond to the female apostate.
**She knows Islam**.
He hasn't got a hope in hell of fooling *her*.
"Reply - President Eisenhower during the Second World War commited a heinous immoral action of using an atomic bomb that reportedly killed over a million people. It is President Eisenhower that committed such a dastardly immoral act and not the nuclear bomb because such a bomb could be used peacefully or not used at all."
The two bombs may have killed a million people, but they -
A: Shortened the war by a considerable time and therefore reduced the inevitable casualties on BOTH sides by arguably more than died.
B: Were never justified using religious texts.
"Simalarly Mohammed is immoral to have committed all those crimes but the religion Islam is similar to the nuclear bomb, it could be used peacefully or not used at all."
Mohammed is meant to be the perfect template of behaviour for all of humanity according to EVERY school/sect/abberant offshoot of Islam. How could he misunderstand his own religion so badly as to use it in a way directly antithetical to it's intent? Unless of course it's intent was to empower his sexual, political and financial desires....
Yes, you could argue that ordering two blasts that killed a million people was immoral, or was it actually morally justified in that had the conflict continued, many many more lived would have been lost through conflict and the famine that had started to grip Japan?
You lose the argument when you claim that Mohammeds morality is separate from that of islam. Mohammed was actually responsible for an inordinate amount of immoral acts during his "prophetic career", inserting most of them into the quran, whereby they magically get justified as "moral" to those indoctrinated to believe that it is a divine revelation (surahs 2, 4, 5 and 9 are full of such examples). You cannot claim that a man writing a holy book is both الإنسان الكامل (perfect being) and yet capable of not following the morals being directly transmitted to him from a divine source.
From the lying, obfuscating Mohammedist troll:
"I think before you start with a knee jerk reaction to what I am stating please visit my first article on morality and thereafter see my analogy with Eisenhower and the nuclear bomb."
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And I think, before you spew anymore of your illogical claptrap abou American Presidents on this site, that you read a little history.
Eisenhower didn't use nuclear weapons on Hiroshima and Nagasaki - it was Harry S. Truman.
_________________________________
Now, begone, follower of the Son of Satan!
"Mr Sanity writing and ascribing a claim to me that I did not make is simply insane."
If you are a muslim, do you not have to ascribe to the fact that Mohammed is perfect? Otherwise why is any criticism of ANY his actions a capital offense under sharia and severly punished in every islamic country not run as a sharia state?
you stated that he committed immoral acts - true or false?
You also stated that someone's religion has no bearing on their morality... why then is ALL religion so damned critical of so many behaviours that hurt no one, including islam? Why is Mohammed the "prophet" of islam if he is so unable to follow the moral commands given to him by his imaginary friend in the sky? Your cognitive dissonance is showing quite badly.
Yes ...D R
I noticed, he ignored my post while he answered the ones above and after mine …
that is OK … it speaks for it self ….
Mr . Fayzal
How do you reconcile this in you brain :
Muhammad said that gargling and drinking humen urine is beneficial for humen health and it is away to lighten teeth … I will tell you which Bukari hadeeth says that .. later but now ...
Do you care to tell us if you are a follower in the wisdom like teachings of M.D Muhammad, do you do [ drink urine] or you do NOT do that? and if you do not [ understandably ] …. why not? … after all ….if Muhammad did it … Muslim should fallow without questioning
regards to you, muslim from ex Muslimah fineliving56
BTW
about the islamic hadeeth of drinking urine for health benefits
It was the most authentic hadeeth of all hadeeths by Sahih Bukari V7,b71,N590
Apparently, according to Muhammad, Camel urine, is the best comparing to all kind of urines so that is why Muhammad says Muslims should drink camel URINE .
Now wighting teeth was a belief that was practiced long before Islam ever invaded the mind of Arabe … the acid that urine contains, thought[ wrongly] to have benefits of whitening teeth like Crest …..except it is not …
haha … Muhammad some times makes me laugh so much … reading hadeeth for all time sake makes me smile for the purity of absurdity of it.
Now I know Allah of Muhammad is stupid … but did YOU know he is THIS stupid ?
right, your atheism changes the tone a touch. Your name and the defensive tone you were taking implied otherwise.
The atom bomb was NOT dropped with religious sanction, Mohammed invented scripture in a convenient manner to justify rapes, thefts, murders etc. The two are not quite equal morally.
Dropping the bombs is most likely to have followed the old analogy of the runaway train aboput to hit 10 people, or you can hit a switch and only kill one person instead. Should you hit that switch, then the person who otherwise would have been ok dies. If you don't then 10 die. The bomb was that switch...
Fayzal
well ….then I owe you an apology if you are not a Muslim …
From your post I got the wrong impression that you are a Muslim and you are defending Islam
so are you an ex Muslim ?????
I think we should start to state in our post our stands on things before any misunderstanding happen … It happen to me one or twice …
You said what drinking urine has to do with morality?
It might look that it does not … but it does !! … let me explain
if a man who announce him self as prophet where no one sow any sign of that prophecy aside from what he said and done, then WHAT HE SAYS AND DOES IS VERY IMPORTANT TO OTHERS TO BRING THEM SELVES TO BELIEVE HIM …and if he says non sense like * drink urine * and he sleep with his dead aunt in her grave to see how it feels* and thigh little girls* and * says kufirs have 7 stomachs and Muslim have one stomach* and many more of backward pure ignorance … THEN logically we can not help but to question his morality due to his ridicules claims …
I mean the first thing moral thing is not to lie and if we know he is lying from that non sense I mentioned that he said … that tells me he no PROPHET .
About happiness … it has nothing to do with Islam … I am never happy when I have to talk about Islam … but I do grind my teeth and I cry some times when I have to remember my story with Islam and write about it ….but I want to keep going to help what ever small help that I can give to destroy Islam … I want to destroy Islam to save the new born Muslim girls that they must go through life with Islam otherwise.
peace
1: No, the bomb was dropped to end the conflict early and thereby reduce the overall suffering caused by the conflict. In and of itself it would be an evil act, but in the context of the conflict, it was less evil than continuing standard combat with a greater number of casualties from both sides. Civilian suffering through malnutrition was already starting to hit Japan by the point that the bombs were dropped.
2:Mohammed killed (or caused to be killed) thousands, including non-combatant civilians and nursing mothers without justifiable provocation. His acts were more evil than letting them go or ignoring petty insults.
3:Hitler killed (or caused to be killed) millions for no reason other than discrimination without legitimate basis. This was an evil act compared to not discriminating.
4:Stalin et al. killed (or caused to be killed) millions in the name of their state. This was more evil than allowing peaceful dissent or humane working conditions.
War distorts the boundaries of acceptable morality as every act of war could be regarded as morally inexcusable by your standards.
Fayzal
No … morality has nothing to do with drinking urine … but we are talking about Muhammad and his invented Islam … correct ?
This web site is strictly for the morality of Muhammad … the morality to stay a Muslim while one Know what Muhammad and what he caused DID and what … the Morality of make Jihad in the name of fake Allah against the innocents and not innocents without discrimination .
You are the one who is drifting and droning going off on unrelated subjects !!
If you want to talk strictly morality this is not the place … there are many web site, who do !!
BTW
Your last name is a neon sign [ Muhamad ] you were a Muslim …
.
I am also against wars, however Japan attacked the US without provocation, and therefore was justified in being retaliated against in order to make them stop their aggression. Truman made a decision to end the war early by extraordinary means to save Allied lives. This decision, coming in the context of a state of war against a beligerant aggressor cannot be equated morally with even a single unjustified killing by others. Saving the lives of the enemy at the expense of your own people is a far more unjustifiable decision.
Mohammed was most certainly not alone in history in committing evil acts, but he was unequalled in inspiring, or giving spiritual justification to others to also commit evil, except maybe by Marx.
The sum of his good and evil acts during his lifetime is not what the issue is with Mohammed, although his genuinely good acts seem to be the minority. Of course there were a number of worse people in history, Gilles de Rais for example, but none of them left a religion behind which explicitly calls for discrimination and violence against people simply for not believing the unbelievable.