It bears repeating as often as is necessary: so many apologies and promises of trial and punishment are validating a process which, for many of its backers, can only rightly end through retribution in blood, and even that will not be the end.
Nothing will never be enough, because the response, a lethal orgy of destructive rage, has not been rational in the first place, and therefore has no rational end point.
"Afghan clerics demand punishment for Koran burners," by Hamid Shalizi for Reuters, March 2:
(Reuters) - Senior Afghan clerics said on Friday the burning of Korans at a NATO base last month was an "evil act" that must be punished, a demand that could deepen widespread public anger over the incident."The council strongly condemns this crime and inhumane, savage act by American troops by desecrating holy Korans," members of a council of clerics said after meeting President Hamid Karzai, according to a statement issued by his office.
"The council emphasized that the apology for this evil act can never be accepted. Those who committed this crime must be publicly tried and punished."
Despite the apology from U.S. President Barack Obama, the desecration of the Korans at Bagram air base ignited a wave of anti-Western fury across the country. Muslims consider the Koran the literal word of God and treat each book with deep reverence.
At least 30 people were killed in the protests.
The Korans had been confiscated from prisoners at the base and mistakenly discarded in an incinerator, U.S. officials said. Afghan laborers found charred remnants.
The Koran burnings have hurt a U.S. campaign to win the hearts and minds of Afghans in order to weaken the Taliban and force the Muslim militant group to negotiate an end to the war now in its eleventh year....
I happen to agree with the clerics. punishment for this vile act is due and it is called: B52 bombers.
m
How the heck can one be "inhumane" to an inanimate object such as a book?
Buffoons!
"......winning the hearts and minds of the (afghan) people......" Excuse me?
I submit that "winning the hearts and minds" of the "devil" is probably NOT a productive endeavor.
The only person dumber than the military planners who believe this crap is the Commander in Chief who demanded it, and then bowed and scraped to Lucifer when it didn't work.
Wake Up America.
The Koran burnings have hurt a U.S. campaign to win the hearts and minds of Afghans ...
What hearts? What minds?
You can't win the hearts and minds of the heartless and mindless.
For a bunch of copies of $1 worth book called Kuran, at least 30 people were killed in the protests. The yucking morons escalated that worthless piece of news into a mega international crises. If the Islamic region is not the most intolerant and volatile region in the World, then I don't know how else anyone can describe it. If the origin of the crises is not the Kuran then I can't imagine how else anyone can honestly describe it.
It is Kuran stupid.
From the article:
"The Koran burnings have hurt a U.S. campaign to win the hearts and minds of Afghans in order to weaken the Taliban and force the Muslim militant group to negotiate an end to the war now in its eleventh year...."
Eleven years. Truth be told....it's a war that has been raging for far more than eleven years.
As long as the Koran is not seriously challenged in a conclusive summit by non-muslim leaders, non-muslim nations will continue to endure attacks carried out by the true followers of Islam - who pose a genuine threat to their survival.
To beg forgiveness (apologize) to murderers - is a sin.
There's only one solution, get out as soon as practically possible and leave the best of people to wallow in their own filth.
Win the hearts and minds...They have been playing that tune for ten years now with no let up, and look how far we have gotten...We played the same tune in Iraq, and now they laugh..and flirt with Iran...I think they should change that tune to The Battle Hymn of the Republic...if that fails try 'Home sweet Home'...
Diana West had a further helpful article on this point,
Islamic Rages Aimed at Enslaving the West
http://townhall.com/columnists/dianawest/2012/03/02/islamic_rages_aimed_at_enslaving_the_west
Quotes,
I could continue, but I think the pattern is clear. Critical discussion or representation of Islam -- including stated facts; satirical, political or religious commentary; or acts deemed by Islam to be "blasphemy" or "desecration" -- spur Muslims to violence. This violence spurs Westerners to apology. But apology is always an act of dhimmitude: submitting to Islamic definitions of crime or grievance that only under Islamic law require contrition.
Meanwhile, the chorus for punishment grows. "After the first step of a profound apology, there must be a second step ... of disciplinary action," Jan Kubis, the United Nations representative in Afghanistan, said this week. "Only after this, after such a disciplinary action, can the international forces say, 'Yes, we're sincere in our apology.'"
Or, rather, yes, we're sincere in our dhimmitude.
Demonstrating his own "sincerity," Kubis continued: "We deeply, deeply, profoundly respect Islam. ... We were very hurt that the international military allowed the desecration of the Quran. We rejected and condemned this act; it doesn't matter that it was a mistake."
Kubis' example is most instructive. Speaking for the United Nations, he mimics the aggrievement of Islam. Indeed, Islam's aggrievement becomes the United Nations' own as it draws power from the demonstrably more kinetic Islamic position.
The fact is, this whole affair, like those that preceded it, is a power play. Feigned victimhood becomes a trap for the "perpetrator" -- in this case, the U.S. military. Falling for the trap means submitting to violent Islamic dictates for exactly the same reason a co-dependent family member submits to dictates of a mentally ill relative -- to stop the outburst, to make it all "better," even if "better" is only a lull before the next power play.
Your stupid remarks, and this one is as typical as they come, make you look foolish, add nothing of insightful value, and are a waste of readers' time.
"Afghan clerics: Obama's apology can never be accepted" -
It looks like we are preparing to support an imminent Israel strike Iran. Hence, we are looking for support, at least blessings, from some of our unsavory friends like Turkey and Saudies or whoever is in the vicinity. I see Obama's apology is tactical not serious. For the clerics, they could not tell the difference - they hate us. Why?
For all this mess, we all have to thank Koran.
Don't think you know MR - your posting was clearly provocative and added no real positive value. Don't you think so?
what are you saying here exactly and I not asking about my stupid remarks I am asking about your post.
M
You obviously don't know that Miriam is an apostate from islam and a regular contributor. He is neither foolish nor stupid. His son is an American patriot and has served in that shithole called Afghanistan.
Furthermore, I think his suggestion of sending in B52 bombers is far more practical than wasting 10 years, billions of dollars, and countless American, Canadian and other allied lives.
On the other hand, I would prefer the C130 gunships to B52s.
Ima
Islam does terrible things to the mind (to many bodies too) and inappropriate and excessive apologizing to Muslims by American officials, including the American President, does terrible things to the American Republic and to the truth. The great irony in all this is that the Islamic world owes a gigantic apology to the non-Islamic world for producing the most wretched religion ever devised by man.
God, how I have come to despise Islam. There's nothing I despise more. And if Islam is the true religion, which I'd bet my life on is not the case, then this is a very creepy universe and God's a jerk. The only thing left to human beings who cherish liberty if such is the case is to refuse to be a slave of Allah and, like Prometheus, defy a twisted higher power in order to do what is right. One will go down into the pit before such a warped deity, but when the fall is all there is it matters how you go. Never a slave I say. Never. Such is the lot of lesser human beings.
what do you know about Islam and Islamic countries? just that you know I was born and raised in Iran and I have been to afghanistan. they are animal living in the 10th century. I know the evil called Islam first hand. My own son is a marine who served a year in afghanistan and just got back last august. and guess what he just called me last week and said:dad I am going on a mission for three month and I asked where and guess what he said: I can not discuss it. he is a sniper, where do you think they are going to send him in order for him to take out a douch bag? what if he gets killed by an afghan ary solder who are supposed to be on our side. what do you think of the families of those solders who got killed intentionally by a supposed friend? and if this happens to my son what do you think I should be thinking of? we should have gone into afghanistan without a doubt but we should have never stayed there. we should have gone in 0n 10-11 and bombed the hell out of them leveled the f...ing country and left on 11-11.
m
Your son is very brave and you must be so proud of him. I pray that he will return home safely, miriam.
Hmm... Seems like I was right.
Miriam, I echo the thanks of others here for your son's service, and beg you to extend them to him at the first possible opportunity. He has my [Christian] prayers for a safe return, along with the safe return of all of his comrades.
And I echo yours and others' point that the US intervention in Afghanistan is producing diminishing returns, and should be ended ASAP now that Usama Bin Laden is dead.
MR - my posting is aimed at Franklin. You didn't need to explain to anyone who you are, especially not to me. I've read about you, let me guess, a couple of years back give or take. It is always interesting to read your posts. I think Franklin got his knickers in the twist- he didn't return till now.
I think we're all on the same page here and that this particular dispute is a tempest in a teapot. Well, taking on Islamic dysfunctionalism can sometimes lead to honest errors among those who recognize Islam for the monstrosity which it is. Now, if I may suggest, back to the real fight.
"The council emphasized that the apology for this evil act can never be accepted."
----------------------------------------
The [obama] apology should have never been given. But I guess that sort of appeasment comes with the appeaser.
I’ve often wondered why it is that conservatives are called “Right”
And liberals are called “Left”.
Ecclesiastes 10:2 reads:
“ The heart of the wise inclines to the right,
but the heart of the fool to the left.”
Food for thought!
The last 4 letters in American - “I can.”
The last 4 letters in Republican - “I can.”
The last 4 letters in Democrats - “Rats”
Test to follow in November 2012
Now, if I may suggest, back to the real fight.
In have been fighting these buggers all day...is it ok if I take a ten minute break?
sorry blue raven. I did not realize it. it was menat for the other guy. I got really agitated by him remarks. it is really cold today in NYC. time for a ciger and a stiff scocth!
M
Afghan clerics: Obama's apology can never be accepted
...............................
Well, *of course not*. Even burning down the White House and hanging American generals—as recommended by our good freinds the Iranians—would not be enough.
Because *nothing* would ever be enough. All the bowing, and scraping, and cringing apologies, and mountains of aid is never enough, nor could it ever be enough.
Both the nature of Islam and all this appeasement just makes their demands more and more outrageous.
More:
Reuters) - Senior Afghan clerics said on Friday the burning of Korans at a NATO base last month was an "evil act" that must be punished, a demand that could deepen widespread public anger over the incident.
"The council strongly condemns this crime and inhumane, savage act by American troops by desecrating holy Korans," members of a council of clerics said after meeting President Hamid Karzai, according to a statement issued by his office.
...............................
An accidental tossing of a few books into the wrong bin is an "evil act" that is "savage" and 'inhumane", while butchering people who had nothing to do with it in response gets a tepid cautioning a best. At worst, it is considered a reasonable reaction from the "Noble People of Afghanistan" for having their "religious sentiments" hurt.
More:
"The council emphasized that the apology for this evil act can never be accepted. Those who committed this crime must be publicly tried and punished."
...............................
This is what they really want: for us to sanction our service mean and women be *subject to their howling mobs*.
This—for something that would not even be considered a crime outside a Shari'ah court.
I will also like to be excused to take a little afternoon nap.
No worries.
thank you.
m
thank you. you have no idea how unnerving this is. not to know the where abouts of you kids. while you know they are out there but no communication. my son and bands of Marines joined the corp while there was/is a war. this is a sacrifice. I do really well so it was not for financial reason it is for the love of the country and then get killed by the same people who are supposed to be on our side? there is nothing good comes out of islamic countries .
Where there is no love and no rationale or reason!
::
We always talk of being made dhimmis - but I think the Muslim is the first dhimmi - in the overriding or subjugation of self.
In this sense they are doing unto others as they do to themselves.
::
If the child loses something or it's broken - the parent tries to replace it - the US government can easily replace these Korans. But obviously this is logical. It uses reason. All suppressed - in the fanatical Muslim psyche.
Here - to reject an apology is to reject - the idea of forgiveness. For hate and supremacy - in the diminishment of others.
It's the Dark Side of belief.
::
Like the filmmaker, making a documentary on the opposition to the Tenn. mosque - had a chance meeting with a Coptic Christian cab driver in New York [only in NY] - which is similar to Obama's - reaching out to the Muslim world - and getting his hand chewed off - because he has inadvertently become like Pastor Terry Jones.
Sometimes things are meant to move in different direction....
You fully deserve a ten-minute break, duh_swami. May I suggest it be accompanied by something very un-Islamic---a good beer, or maybe two or three, which might stretch it out to a thirty minute break or more, but what the hell. Islam can be put on hold this long. Actually, I wonder if we could finagle Islam being put on hold forever? It's a beautiful thought, no?
Indeed Wellington.
If Allah were a true divine deity, Muhammad a prophet to be emulated and Islam a valid religious ideology, I for one would opt for eternity in hell-fire.
Thank goodness that aforementioned premise is beyond preposterous to suggest.
Nothing good comes out of Muslim countries? Well, Miriam, you're a good enough American, it seems, yet you came from Iran.
That MR's son is in the military is a credit to that person and no one else.
That someone is an apostate from Islam living the USA indicates simple common sense, not intellectual prowness.
Aerial bombardment, even if done carpet-style, will never achieve an objective of subduing an enemy. That objective can only be accomplished when combined with land invasions. If mere aerial tactics were sufficient, German brautwurst would have replaced fish-n-chips on the streets of London.
The better solution is to strive for "victory" (a word never uttered by US commanders since 1945). To this end the military and their civilian superiors, Obama, Panetta, DOD, DOJ, would immediately rescind/release our military from the self-handicapping Rules of Engagement.
And, yes, B52 bombing is in and of itself a stupid idea, though I do take note of your observation on how dollars could have better spent.
Franklin Amman said,
"Aerial bombardment, even if done carpet-style, will never achieve an objective of subduing an enemy."
-------------------------------------------------
Maybe not.........But it's a damn good start!
Sir,
I fail to see how "fish n chips" or "Brautwurst" could ever be used in military tactics.
"I have been fighting these buggers all day...is it ok if I take a ten minute break?"
_________________________
Yes, damn it, yes! Take as long as you like, swami - I'll wait for your next, excellent post!
LOL!
You mean you really didn't get the satire? Did you really think that the Luftwaffe might have dropped baloney sandwiches!
What he means is that if Germany had won the Battle of Britain (1940) by means of merely bombing London, Coventry and other English targets, then the menus of London restaurants and pubs would today be German b/c the English would have be subdued.
At least the beer would have better.
Calls for carpet bombings and subsequent invasions, the word "invasion" itself belies something negative, and are best left unsaid in my humble opinion. They will certainly be used against the site's host by their detracters.
Fact-based, doctrinally supported education is the key.
Excellent article, that.
People - the article by Diana West, that Franklin Amman linked above, is well worth reading, if you haven't already checked it out.
To go with it, two classic articles by 'David Thompson' and another by 'Sultan Knish', both on the subject of Mohammedan grievance theatre and the absolute folly of any attempt to pander to Mohammedan 'grievance'.
1. It's OK to Dislike Islam
http://davidthompson.typepad.com/davidthompson/2007/03/intimidation_re.html
and 2. 'The Passive-Aggressive Jihad'
http://davidthompson.typepad.com/davidthompson/2007/03/the_passiveaggr.html
http://sultanknish.blogspot.com/2011/11/dangers-of-legitimizing-islamic.html
Sunday, November 13, 2011
The Dangers of Legitimizing Muslim Grievances
'There is no surer path to Muslim violence than through the legitimization of Muslim grievance.
'And once you accept the legitimacy of the grievance, then you are also bound to accept the legitimacy of the violence that follows.
' Violence begins with grievance.
'Grievance is the pretext for violence and the narrative for the violence...
'Grievance is the stories that Muslims tell themselves to justify their violence.
' To explain why they kill children and why they murder the innocent.
'The list of grievances is an endless as the violence.
'Every act of violence carries its own narrative.
'The endless Muslim conflicts throughout the world all carry their burden of history.
'But it isn't a history that can be resolved with a tolerance session.
'**Muslim grievances are the frustration of conquerors, the broken teeth of predators who weren't allowed to feed on the world until their stomachs burst** {my emphasis - dda}"...
'The fundamental Muslim grievance is that they are not in power, not just in Israel where the world has accepted their demand to be in power as a wholly moral and legitimate demand, or throughout the Muslim world where Western governments have helped bring the Islamists to power with bombs and political pressure.
' The fundamental grievance is that they are not in power... everywhere."
And another classic piece on the Religion of Perpetual Outrage, here.
http://www.jihadwatch.org/2006/10/fitzgerald-95-things-that-fuel-muslim-extremism.html
'95 other things that also fuel Muslim extremism'.
You said '' God I have come to despise Islam "
It looks like you joint the club named * I have come to despise Islam"
I belong to a different clube but have the same objective … It is named * I always have despised IS-LIME *
* Despise * is very inadequate word TO DESCRIBE my feelings toward Islam and Muhammad
I hope your son will keep safe, miriam.
Miriam Rove
I ad my wishes to all others to keep your brave son safe and I hope he comes home unharmed as soon as possible …
I agree with the others. After all I have learned and continue to learn about it, I also, have come to despise Islam.
Maryam, I hope that your soldier-son serves his tour and comes home safely.
These Afghan and other Muslim clerics are so perpetually unforgiving and aggrieved, so it's no wonder their lands are full of blood feud, rape (of either sex), thievery, and no end of trouble. They encourage children to kill themselves in order to kill others, and now rival camps of suicide bombers are killing each other the same way.
In August of 2011, most Americans believed that Islam is just another religion--possibly due to the presence of Muslim immigrants who simply went about their business, including quite a few for whom Islam was either cultural baggage, or something they were in the process of exiting. Now, a decade after 09/11/01, half of the American people sense that there is something radically wrong with Islam, mostly due to things which devout Muslims have themselves done; the other half is too cowed by the PeeCeeEmCee culture we've erected to dare to believe their lying eyes.
Actually, folks, I see Islam as a very large door to Hell itself.
The reason for going into Afghanistan was to capture or kill Osama bin Laden. Things became very complicated when we decided to 'democratize'and 'liberate' the country. What an unfathomable waste of lives and resources! Our adventures in Afghanistan and Iraq will make George Bush one of the most infamous Presidents we ever had. Not only was he directly responsible for these fiascos. His main legacy was giving us Barack Insane Obama, an evil even greater than any war, anywhere, anytime. His legacy may be the reason that this country finally disintigrates into moral turpitude and economic armageddon. Osma bin Laden must be exhulting in Hades, thinking that this final collapse of the US was triggered by 911. Even he could never have expected such an outcome from the collapse of two buildings and the death of 3000 people. I wonder if he will recognize that much of the credit for his triumph belongs to George Bush and to Barack Obama?