Coptic Pope Shenouda III dead at 88

A sad day in an already dark time for Egypt's Christians. There will likely be Islamic supremacist attempts to capitalize on this period of uncertainty and vulnerability within the Coptic Orthodox Church. "Pope of Egypt's Coptic Christian Church dies," by Aya Batrawy for the Associated Press, March 17:

CAIRO, Egypt (AP) — Pope Shenouda III, the patriarch of the Coptic Orthodox Church who led Egypt's Christian minority for 40 years during a time of increasing tensions with Muslims, has died. He was 88.

The state news agency MENA said Shenouda died Saturday after battling liver and lung problems from several years. A Coptic Church TV station ran a picture of the pope, with a running feed reading, "The Coptic Church prays to God that he rest in peace between the arms of saints."

The patriarch, known in Arabic as Baba Shenouda, headed one of the most ancient churches in the world, which traced it founding to St. Mark, who is said to have brought Christianity to Egypt in the 1st Century during the reign of the Roman emperor Nero.

For Egypt's estimated 10 million Coptic Christians, he was a religious thinker and a charismatic leader, known for his sense of humor — his smiling portrait was hung in many Coptic homes and shops.

Above all, many Copts saw him as the guardian of their minority living amid a majority Muslim population in this country of more than 80 million people.

Shenouda sought to do so by striking a conservative balance. During the rule of President Hosni Mubarak, he gave strong support to his government, while avoiding pressing Coptic demands too vocally in public to prevent a backlash from Muslim conservatives.

After Mubarak's fall a year ago, Christians grew increasingly worried over the rising power of Muslim conservatives. Islamic hard-liners carried out a string of attacks on churches, and their clerics gave increasingly dire warnings that Christians were hoarding weapons and seeking to take over the country. Christian anger over the violence was further stoked when troops harshly put down a Christian protest in Cairo, killing 27 people.

In an unprecedented move aimed at showing unity, leaders from the Muslim Brotherhood along with top generals from the ruling military joined Shenouda for services for Orthodox Christmas in January at Cairo's main cathedral.

"For the first time in the history of the cathedral, it is packed with all types of Islamist leaders in Egypt," Shenouda told the gathering. "They all agree ... on the stability of this country and in loving it, and working for it and to work with the Copts as one hand for the sake of Egypt."

Still, a sector of Christians — particularly among youth who supported the revolution against Mubarak — grew critical of Shenouda, saying his conservative approach was not doing enough to stem what they saw as growing anti-Christian violence and discrimination against their community.

In recent years, the aging patriarch traveled repeatedly to the United States for treatment. Yasser Ghobrial, a physician who worked at a Cairo hospital when the pope was treated there in 2007, said he suffered from prostate cancer that spread to his colon and lungs.

The pope, who rose to his position in 1971, clashed significantly with the government once: In 1981 then-President Anwar Sadat sent him into internal exile in the desert monastery of Wadi Natrun, north of Cairo, after Shenouda accused the government of failing to rein in Muslim extremists. Sadat, who was assassinated later that year by Islamic militants, accused Shenouda of fomenting sectarianism. Mubarak ended Shenouda's exile in 1985, allowing him to return to Cairo.

But the incident illustrated the bind of Egypt's Christians. When they press too hard for more influence, some in the Muslim majority accuse them of causing sectarian splits. Many Copts saw Mubarak as their best protection against Islamic fundamentalists and the Muslim Brotherhood — but at the same time, his government often made concessions to conservative Muslims to keep their support.

During the 1990s, Islamic militants launched a campaign of violence, centered in southern Egypt, targeting foreign tourists, police and Christians until they were put down by a heavy crackdown. Pope Shenouda managed to contain the Coptic community's anger over the killings.

But in the past six years, Muslim-Christian violence has flared repeatedly. On the eve of New Year's 2000, sectarian battles killed 21 Copts and a Muslim in the southern village of el-Kusheh. The northern city of Alexandria twice saw sectarian bloodshed recently — in 2005 when Muslims rioted over an anti-Islamic play put on in a church, and again in early 2006 when Christians rioted over a series of knife attacks at Coptic Christian churches....
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"When they press too hard for more influence, some in the Muslim majority accuse them of causing sectarian splits."

"Press too hard for more influence" or for equal "rights" and general "equality" with Muslims as citizens of the same state, something which (devout) Muslims cannot abide and which Islam does not sanction (or tolerate).

"his conservative approach was not doing enough"

And they are absolutely right. Dealing with Islam, we need to be on the offensive.
This man, Ahmad Abaza, is doing just that. An ex-muslim who runs a Christian arabic channel aimed at unveiling Muhammad and the filth of Islam. Here is the link for those who understand arabic:
http://www.truthsat.tv/viewpage.php?id=65

And of course, we won't forget our super hero: Father Zakaria Boutros.

That's the way to deal with Islam, calling it what it is: Satanic!

RIP Pope Shenouda III ,you will always be in my heart

Coptic Pope Shenouda III dead at 88
..............................

I'm so sorry to hear this—it seems that Pope Shenouda always did what he could to protect his people fro Muslim depredations.

This is one of the worst possible times for the Copts to have uncertain leadership, given Egypt's sharp turn toward Shari'ah law in the wake of the "Arab Spring". I hope Pope Shenouda's successor will be a strong figure.

More:

There will likely be Islamic supremacist attempts to capitalize on this period of uncertainty and vulnerability within the Coptic Orthodox Church.
..............................

I'm afraid we can count on that.

More:

CAIRO, Egypt (AP) — Pope Shenouda III, the patriarch of the Coptic Orthodox Church who led Egypt's Christian minority for 40 years during a time of increasing tensions with Muslims...
..............................

More weaseliness from the MSM. Those "increasing tensions with Muslims" are due to Muslims burning down Coptic churches; kidnapping, raping, and forcibly converting Christian girls; and running Copts down in the streets who were demonstrating for an end to their oppression.

My prayers go to Pope Shenouda, his successor, and the Coptic people.

From whatever little I know of copts, I too have sympathy for them. They seemed to me rather like Parsis who had to escape Iran and came to India. Fine people with tremendous capability but no political power at all.

Hope that their presence and welfare will be strengthened though there are little signs of that till now.

Sanjay

R.I.P. Pope Shenouda

The way AP wrote this article - there is no sense of outrage at the killings of the Christians - only that they remained calm after the fact!

Interesting they report 1 in 8 people in Egypt are Copts - but they have virtually no influence.

This is AP -

"When they press too hard for more influence, some in the Muslim majority accuse them of causing sectarian splits."

So that not only can the Copts be readily killed - their demands for 'more influence' is seen as causing sectarian strife!

Does AP have a sense of humanity any more when reporting the news - except to promote Islam!!

::

..in 2005 when Muslims rioted over an anti-Islamic play put on in a church...

Was it an 'anti-Islamic' or was it 'deemed' an anti-Islamic play?

And by whom??

We are to gather that this outrageous attack on a church - was somehow 'justified' - as it was an "anti-Islamic" play!!

At the very least they try to minimize - reason for the attack - as well as the means by which the attack took place - the Muslims - rioted!!

::

Orthodox Christmas in January at Cairo's main cathedral.
"For the first time in the history of the cathedral, it is packed with all types of Islamist leaders in Egypt," Shenouda told the gathering. "They all agree ... on the stability of this country and in loving it, and working for it and to work with the Copts as one hand for the sake of Egypt."


Here were Shenouda speaks to Muslim leaders at the Christmas service - but between the fine words, you can almost hear him saying - that Copts don't feel a part of Egypt or its process.

And that's a sad note.

The next Pope will have to deal with this upping of the Islamic ante.

My condolences to the Coptic Christians and my sympathies to any family he may have...

"his conservative approach was not doing enough"

And they are absolutely right. Dealing with Islam, we need to be on the offensive.
This man, Ahmad Abaza, is doing just that. An ex-muslim who runs a Christian arabic channel aimed at unveiling Muhammad and the filth of Islam. Here is the link for those who understand arabic:
http://www.truthsat.tv/viewpage.php?id=65

And of course, we won't forget our super hero: Father Zakaria Boutros.

That's the way to deal with Islam, calling it what it is: Satanic!

You have so little understanding what going on. It the Coptic christian where to take up armed against the moslum and government they will be wipe out.

The proportion of Copt Christians to Egyptian Muslims is 1:8.When Muslims in Britian,who hardly form 3% to the total population wield so much power and have their own Ghetoes in certain portion of Britain where in, no body can enter(called 'no go' areas).With Islamic Brotherhood having so much power in Egypt, Copts are sidelined in every aspect. It is better for them to have certain portion of Egypt exclusivly earmarked only for Copts-just like Sudan.

"In recent years, the aging patriarch traveled repeatedly to the United States for treatment." ...

Perhaps he traveled to the US for treatment for fear that someone would kill him if treated in his own country due to a rise in violence towards Christians from muslims in Egypt in recent years. My condolences to those that loved Coptic Pope Shenouda III ...and I pray that 10 more men would rise up in his place as guardians for the minority Christians living there. Love and prayers to my precious brothers and sisters grieving the loss of a great warrior for Christ ...

"DefenderofIslam" wrote, quoting Salah:

"his conservative approach was not doing enough"

And they are absolutely right. Dealing with Islam, we need to be on the offensive.

This man, Ahmad Abaza, is doing just that. An ex-muslim who runs a Christian arabic channel aimed at unveiling Muhammad and the filth of Islam. Here is the link for those who understand arabic:

http://www.truthsat.tv/viewpage.php?id=65

And of course, we won't forget our super hero: Father Zakaria Boutros.

That's the way to deal with Islam, calling it what it is: Satanic!

You have so little understanding what going on. It the Coptic christian where to take up armed against the moslum and government they will be wipe out.
........................................

Notice what the vile and appalling "DefenderofIslam" is doing here.

He is taking Salah's examples of brave Infidels and apostates strongly speaking out against the depredations of Islam, and pretends that he is calling for Copts to "take up armed against the moslum and government".

In "DefenderofIslam's" world, merely decrying the savagery of Islam is tantamount to armed resistance. And he is not alone—most vicious Muslims think like this. This is why Copts were massacred by the Egyptian army for daring to peacefully protest the violence against them.

OT, but have you seen where George Clooney and his Dad were arrested for their protest at the Sudanese embassy over the killings of the Nuba and South Sudanese?
It's almost man bites dog when Hollywood denizens champion a good cause, and for victims of the Sudanese Islamofascist regime of Omar Bashir.

The anti Islamic play being put on in a church? The passion story most likely.

In the earliest Muslim biography of Muhammad, pages 511-517 (758-766 in the Arabic) we learn how in Khaybar Muhammad ordered the torture of a man in order to get hold of a treasure, then beheaded the man, and how that night Muhammad took into his private tent for consummation of "marriage" the tortured man's widow, Safiya, whose father and other male relatives Muhammad had just killed:

Kinana b. al-Rabi', who had the custody of the treasure of the B. al-Nadir, was brought to the apostle who asked him about it. He denied that he knew where it was. A Jew came (Tabari says "was brought") to the apostle and said that he had seen Kinana going round a certain ruin every morning early. When the apostle [Muhammad] said to Kinana, 'Do you know that if we find you have it I shall kill you?' he said Yes. The apostle gave orders that the ruin was to be excavated and some of the treasure was found. When he asked him about the rest he refused to produce it, so the apostle [Muhammad] gave orders to al-Zubayr b. al-'Awwam, 'Torture him until you extract what he has,' so he kindled a fire with flint and steel on his chest until he was nearly dead. Then the apostle delivered him to Muhammad b. Maslama and he struck off his head in revenge for his brother Mahmud. [-- page 515 (763-764 in the Arabic)]
...The apostle took captives...among whom was Safiya d. Huyayy b. Akhtab who had been the wife of Kinana b. al-Rabi’ b. Abu’l-Huqayq, and two cousins of hers. The apostle chose Safiya for himself. [-- page 511 (758 in the Arabic)]
When the apostle married Safiya in Khaybar or on the way, she having been beautified and combed, and got in a fit state for the apostle by Umm Sulaym d. Milhan mother of Anas b. Malik, the apostle passed the night with her in a tent of his. Abu Ayyub, Khalid b. Zayd brother of B. al-Najjar passed the night girt with his sword, guarding the apostle and going round the tent until in the morning the apostle saw him and asked him what he meant by his action. He replied, ‘I was afraid for you with this woman for you have killed her father, her husband, and her people, and till recently she was in unbelief, so I was afraid for you on her account.’ They allege that the apostle said ‘O God, preserve Abu Ayyub as he spent the night preserving me.’ [-- page 516-517 (766 in the Arabic)]

The Pope's successor will have no foreign allies thanks to the state of affairs in Western Civilization.

UK Jewish students withdraw speaking invitation to supporter of besieged state of Israel.

http://www.thejc.com/news/uk-news/65165/jewish-students-cancel-controversial-lawyers-invite

Syrian revolutionaries: "The people want the Caliphate re-instated.", on March 12th (Aleppo) and 13th (Binshiye).

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-DLSNxGgsh0

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_kwXkzBfd3Y

Sadly, yet another blow for Coptic Christians. RIP.

Scott Descartes wrote:

The anti Islamic play being put on in a church? The passion story most likely.
...............................

Scott, I was able to track down some news about the Muslim violence following the release of DVDs of the performance of the play—but not much about the nature of the play itself:

"Egyptian Christians insult Islam; Muslims riot"

http://www.jihadwatch.org/2005/11/egyptian-christians-insult-islam-muslims-riot.html

Poster waterdragon52 wrote this about the play in the comments:

"So the Muslims feel their religion was "mocked" because the Copts produced a play about a Christian who was given financial inducement to convert and changed his mind."

He didn't offer a link to this information, but it may be accurate.

Here's more:

"Copts Release Video of Mass Rioting, Destruction of Churches and Bibles: Fear impending ethnic cleansing of Christians in Egypt"

"The protestors say the play blasphemes Islam. According to recent statements by the Coptic Church, however, the play does not defame Islam...

"In addition to the protests, the Egyptian newspaper, El Fagr, published threats made by Muslim radicals against the Coptic Pope Shenouda III. According to this report, Muslim radicals publicly announced their threats through mosques in the outskirts of the city of Alexandria and were calling for the death of the Pope in revenge for an alleged insult to Islam's prophet."

http://www.jihadwatch.org/2005/10/copts-release-video-of-mass-rioting-destruction-of-churches-and-bibles-fear-impending-ethnic-cleansi.html

There was an article on the incident by R. Moger and J. Ehab. (2005). "All over a play: Sectarian riots leave three dead and more than 100 injured". Cairo Magazine.

Unfortunately, Cairo Magazine no longer seems to be maintaining its website.

Whatever the nature of this play, though, I'm sure that the crazed Muslim violence that followed it was—to put it mildly—hardly warranted.

First what this Pope did was correct like the Pope in Rome durning WWII didnot directly take action against Hilter but subly did take action in secert. But like now the best couse of action is to lay low and be quiet.
The Pope in Rome have than 100 men army from Swizzland that do have modern mitialy arms, but to fight than large army like Germany have is fighting than lost cause.

CONGRESSMAN ALLEN WEST CO-SPONSORS THE OPEN FUEL STANDARD ACT, A WAY TO BRING DOWN THE PRICE OF GAS AND BREAK OPEC's POWER OVER THE U.S. TRANSPORT SECTOR:

By asking your representative in the U.S. House of Representatives to help pass the bill H.R. 1687 -- the Open Fuel Standard Act -- you do something very practical to resist sharia and jihad.

The bill currently has 25 Republican and Democratic co-sponsors in the House of Representatives, including Allen West! Get your rep to co-sponsor it too! H.R.1687 is also supported by Brigitte Gabriel.

The Open Fuel Standard Act-HR 1687 would require a rapidly increasing percentage of new cars sold in the U.S. to include a small change that would cost $100 or less per car. The fix would allow cars to run on various fuels and any mix of fuels (including methanol, ethanol, bio-diesel, or gasoline). The fix would break OPEC's power over the price of transport fuel and drive down the price of gas. It would create price competition among fuels and increasingly allow drivers to choose at the pump which fuel they want to buy. The Open Fuel Standard Act (HR 1687) is supported by a coalition of strange bedfellows who normally might not agree with each other: former national security officials, environmentalists, military bigwigs, evangelicals.

To see why to support the Open Fuel Standard Act (HR 1687), check out this video featuring Frank Gaffney, Robert McFarlane, James Woolsey, Anne Korin, and others:

America's Fuel Choice: Breaking Oil's Monopoly on the Transport Sector

And check out this website: http://www.setamericafree.org

Set America Free is a coalition including Daniel Pipes of the Middle East Forum; Frank Gaffney of the Center for Security Policy; former National Security Advisor Robert McFarlane (under Ronald Reagan); former CIA head James Woolsey (under Bill Clinton); former secretary of Energy Admiral James Watkins; former commander of the U.S. Pacific Fleet Admiral James Lyons; Orson Swindle, Former Commissioner of the Federal Trade Commission and Vietnam POW; and others.

See also this website: http://www.openfuelstandard.org

You can contact your representative to support the Open Fuel Standard Act (H.R. 1687) by email if you go here:

http://www.actforamerica.org/index.php/contact-congress

But a thousand times more effective than email is to telephone your representative.

1) Click here to get your representative's phone number:
http://www.congress.org/congressorg/directory/congdir.tt

2) When you get to that website, just put your zipcode in the box, hit enter, then images of your representative (and your two senators) will appear.

3) Then click on your representative's picture, and several tabs will appear, including a "contact" tab.

4) Click on the contact tab and you'll see phone numbers for your representative.

If you telephone, politely ask the name of the staffer who handles flex fuel issues or energy issues, then ask to speak to that staffer. Politely tell the staffer you support passage of the Open Fuel Standard Act (HR 1687).

And have a look at this page: How to Influence Your Representative.

Some useful articles:

Why You Should Support the Open Fuel Standard Even if You Are Against Mandates in Principle

Question: Shouldn't We Keep Government Out of This and Let Market Forces Determine What Happens?

Does a Federal Open Fuel Standard Violate Free Market Principles?

BHO's cancellation of the Keystone Pipeline should cost him re-election. He talked about integrating Continental infrastructure, and then he subverts it and alienates America's largest oil supplier: Canada.

BHO rolled with public opinion against the pipeline, after celebrities pandered the public with false information. Now the President is prisoner of his rhetoric.

As for the issue of low sulfur oil; maintenance of supplies and relatively stable costs, have to put "clean oil" policy implementation on the back burner. In any case, further regulation of catalytic converters could be an effective substitute for insane supplier alienation.

BHO bowed to saud terrorists; he could at least listen to those who pay his unearned wages.

While Africa is in the news, see this 40 minute video on the 17,000,000 Black slaves seized by the muslim enemy over 14 centuries.

http://www.mrctv.org/videos/roots-arab-slave-trade-english-subtitled

Most of the 11 million enslaved in the West, were liberated; most slaves to the arabs were murdered after they were no longer useful.

One would think that BHO wouldn't bow to murderers of his own kind (actually he is half-white). BHO has chosen to criticize Jews and Christians alone. He has shelled out billions of dollars, wasted on the carpet humping swine in the islamonazi entities.

"DefenderofIslam" wrote:

First what this Pope did was correct like the Pope in Rome durning WWII didnot directly take action against Hilter but subly did take action in secert. But like now the best couse of action is to lay low and be quiet.
........................................

Don't you like the way "DefenderofIslam" is openly admitting that his vicious coreligionists are just like the *genocidal Nazis*?

Quite an admission, "DefenderofIslam"...with "defenders" like you, Islam hardly needs Taqiyya artists...

Robert,

I hate to disrupt the mourning, but is there any substance to the reports that Shenouda gave antisemitic sermons? My main source is not (by a long shot) one of my favorite people, but sometimes Debbie Schlussel gets it right. At any rate, this is not farfetched: One of the most common ways that Middle Eastern Christians try to endear themselves to their Muslim overlords is by expressing their hatred for Jews (Then again, Debbie is known to regard almost anyone who does not agree with her as a Jew-hater!). I sincerely hope she is wrong, but I want to know the truth.

Egypt is lost to Islam. Same goes for Tunisia and Libya. In fact all of North Africa is soon to be what looks like permanently going down the Mohammedan drain...

We ex-Muslims living with Islam's formal and informal death penalty for apostasy know for certain that Islam is evil both in-part and on the whole.

>>>

The Slaves of Allah

Qur'an 006.018

He is the Omnipotent over His slaves, and He is the Wise, the Knower

In the backward religion of Islam, the greatest success that a Muslim believer can achieve in life is being a slave.

Muhammad told his blind followers that they must become the “slaves of Allah” or be tortured in hell fire for eternity. He also promised them plenty of booty in both this life and the next.

Fortunately, the Muslims are slowly beginning to accept the fact that there IS NO cruel Islamic god named Allah and that they are in reality simply the SLAVES OF MUHAMMADS CULT.

If Islam were a peaceful and respectable religion that was a benefit to humanity, there would be nothing wrong with dedicating ones life to it. But of course this is not the case. In reality Islam does not ultimately produce good results for Muslims or anyone else.

In fact the Islamic religion without exception produces certain collective disaster for the Muslims. Islam has always failed Muslims, and it will always fail Muslims for as long as the followers of this pathetic cult continue to practice and enforce its cruel dictates. Islamic ideology produces the worst end result that one could possibly imagine. Islam is a vicious cult that creates a blinding slave mentality among Muslims.

As stated above, Muhammad has in reality made the Muslims HIS slaves. From the grave this evil mad man still has control over the minds of Muslims. Muslims live in fear of his most evil book the unholy Qur'an. Many things are ass backwards in the world of Islam, and the Qur'an is no exception. The Qur'an is the most harmful and corrupted book in existence, and yet brainwashed Muslim believers still think it pure and perfect. If the Qur'an is the unblemished word of god then gasoline is inflammable.

Muslims can never be free and know what it is to be fully and truly human. In fact Muslims do not want to be free. They want to be slaves.

Muslims hate freedom and want to deny it to themselves and others. For the end goal of Islam is to submit totally to Islam and become THE PERFECT SLAVE OF ALLAH.

If Muslims could only see that Islam/Allah is nothing more than Muhammad’s 1400 year old lie that he used to enslave them with and turn them into his personal band of thieves and killers they would walk away from this twisted cult in a heart beat. And fortunately for both Muslims and non-Muslims this process is well under way. Muslims have now rightly become ashamed of Islam and their criminal prophet.

I wish, Saleem, that most every Muslim on earth would come to their senses as you have and become, like you, an ex-Muslim. One thing I have become certain of and that is there is no reforming Islam. Oh yes, you may have this or that Muslim who is completely peaceful, but the problem remains twofold: 1)the theological blueprint of Islam, which is a prescription for violence and intolerance wherever Islam is dominant and even where it isn't and 2)the totally unacceptable and repulsive character of the founder of Islam. Can't change either of these and that's why Islam will never become benign or enlightened. Hope you're doing well, my friend, and thanks for your continued perspective on Islam which only an ex-Muslim can have.

Pope Shenouda III, RIP. Condolences to the Copts.

One thing that I hope - that his successor tones down the tendency of Copts to be Judeophobic to please their Muslim overlords. That sort of grovelling has never worked w/ anybody, and never will. As long as Copts continue to harbor Judeophobic sentiments, they'll remain unworthy of much sympathy, at least from those of us who frown on anti-Semitism. If Muslim anti-Semitism is worth condemnation, which it very much is, I see no reason why anti-Semitism of other groups should be given a pass.

Yes, the Coptic Christian religious leadership has been ideologically anti-Jewish. I don't know for how long this phenomenon has existed. The holding and propagation of racist bigoted religious ideological wrong views about the Jewish people has existed among the religious leadership of all Christian denominations throughout much (most) of the past two thousand years.

However, I feel sympathy with Coptic Christians now, and I support Coptic Christians now.

In the following video, Ashraf Ramelah, who is Coptic Egyptian, and who immigrated to Italy, and who then immigrated to America, and who now lives in America, and who, I think, is now an American citizen, lists the ideological anti-Jewish bigotry that has existed among the Coptic Christian religious leadership and denounces this ideological anti-Jewish bigotry that has existed among the Coptic Christian leadership, and says that, after Israel was re-founded, the Coptic Christian religious leadership advocated anti-Israeli/anti-Jewish views in order to try to ingratiate themselves with the Muslim majority in Egypt.

Faith Under Fire: Ashraf Ramelah
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XuSVHw6C7ys

"Faith Under Fire: The Global Threat to Religious Freedom conference took place in metro Chicago on March 10, 2012."

This video was posted by:

Center for Security Policy
http://www.youtube.com/user/securefreedom

----

danielbielak.blogspot.com

Israel - A Brief Summary of the History of the Situation

Haj Amin al-Husseini - The founder of the 'Palestinian movement'

Israeli life and culture, and the Islamic Jihad
www.youtube.com/danielbielak

I apologize for the anger that I felt when writing my previous comment, and that I expressed in my previous comment. The anger that I felt when writing my previous comment, and that I expressed in my previous comment, was not toward any Copts. The anger that I felt, and that I expressed, was anger that arose in my mind toward what arose in my mind as the concept that I viewed as being Western Christian religious establishment members, and toward what arose in my mind as the concept that I viewed as being the members of the governing social classes of Western societies.

I don't feel any anger at all toward Copts. I hope that Copts may be safe. I hope that Copts may be happy.

I regret that I expressed anger. I apologize for expressing anger. I'm in a difficult situation, and anger arose in my mind. I'm sorry. I apologize.

I wish all the best to the Copts.

The talk by Ashraf Ramelah which I listed in my previous comment was part of a conference about the plight of religious minorities in Islamic countries.

The following is information about, and links to videos of, the conference:

Faith Under Fire: The Global Threat to Religious Freedom

"Faith Under Fire: The Global Threat to Religious Freedom conference took place in metro Chicago on March 10, 2012.

Please join us for this eye-opening Chicago-area conference on the worldwide crisis in religious freedom. We will examine the plight of persecuted religious minorities in Islamic countries as representatives of these communities offer riveting testimony. Key members of the U.S. Congress will discuss the latest legislation and actions intended to prevent genocide. Recognized international and national experts will offer insightful analysis of policy issues and the global threat to religious freedom."

Faith Under Fire: Cynthia Farahat
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cqH_UAH-yYc

Faith Under Fire: Ashraf Ramelah
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XuSVHw6C7ys

Faith Under Fire: Juliana Taimoorazy
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qto-g8mGBTw

Faith Under Fire: Q+A Background Testimony on Indigenous Communities
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RAv8TxuBfak

"Panel: Testimony from the Region and Background on Indigenous Communities

-Cynthia Farahat Egyptian political activist
-Ashraf Ramelah founder and President of Voice of the Copts
-Juliana Taimoorazy founder and President of the Iraqi Christian Relief Council"

So Pope Shenouda, what I call a CAP (Christian Apostle of Peace- I've seen them up close and personal, since my deceased wife was a member of a 'mainstream' and politically correct/liberal U.S. Protestant denomination, and I attended church many Sundays after her death since I made a pre-nuptial- spiritual, not legal, there was no paper signed enforcing it by law, but I keep my commitments- agreement to raise our son in her religion and I kept my promise after her death, attended to church to ensure our son was safely 'confirmed' in the Protestant faith- and so I got to see up close and personal how several CAPs signed on to and endorsed and frequently brought up how Israel is evil, and illegitimate, and the source of all bad things in the ME and the world, and 'oppresses' the Palestinians, and Mearsheimer/Walt are correct in depicting an evil Jewish cabal dictating US foreign policy, etc., ad infinitum, ad nauseam, so that I'm sure my Latvian immigrant grandfather is spinning in his grave forever- and yet these chasuble-clad CAPs think they are pure, white-gown-clad apostles of peace- ick, it makes me want to throw up whenever I think about it) with a particularly strong line in particularly virulent and vocal Jew-hatred, Pope Shenouda is dead- ironically, the same day that murderer John Demjanjuk, who tried to deny his Nazi crimes right to the end of his long, long life- tell me, please tell me good Christians, how many tears am I supposed to shed? How many? More than I shed for Demjanjuk, who also thought of himself as a good Christian, or less, or the same? Please give me a break.

Among the saints, O Christ,
give rest to the souls of Your servants,
in a place where there is no pain,
or sorrow, or sighing,
but life everlasting.

Given the credible evidence of this late pope's antisemitism I have no sympathy for those who mourn his death. By referring to Jews as "Christ-Killers" he sold his soul to score points with his overlords.

The fact that he may have done this to better improve the survival of the Copt community in Egypt is no excuse whatsoever. The fact that they are being persecuted with more zeal than ever today is another example of THE WAGES OF APPEASEMENT.

I am sorry for what is happening to the people who are identified as Copts, but those who shared this man's bigotry or did nothing as he railed against Jews need to do some serious soul searching.

Finally, the fact that antisemitism has been widespread in many Christian churches throughout history does not in any way exonerate him. All mainstream churches have overcome this. We should not expect less from such a large church in Egypt. It was appeasement pure and simple.

An Egyptian Christian friend of mine, who fled Egypt in the 90s to escape islamic oppression and terror, became a Coptic priest and had been ordained by Pope Shenouda, when the Pope visited he US.

RIP Your Holiness. Go to your reward, your watch is over.

(Correction: I wrote that the anger which arose in my mind was toward only the concept of Western Christian clerics and the concept of members of the governing social classes of Western societies and not toward any Coptic Christians. However that anger which arose in my mind was toward not only the concept of Western Christian clerics but toward the concept of racist anti-Jewish Christian clerics in general - including the concept of racist anti-Jewish Coptic Christian clerics.)

I think that the racist anti-Jewish bigotry of racist anti-Jewish Coptic Christian Clerics is not a result of their appeasing Muslims and is not from adopting anti-Jewish racism from Islam. The racist anti-Jewish bigotry of racist anti-Jewish Coptic Christian Clerics is from the anti-Jewish racism that is inherent in the religious ideology in which they believe.

That Christians who may even be Christians who claim to be friends of the Jewish people are expressing veneration toward a Christian cleric who held and propagated antipathetic racist religious ideological genocidal bigoted wrong views about the Jewish people is a demonstration of, and a manifestation of, the holding of antipathetic racist religious ideological bigoted wrong views toward the Jewish people that is a deeply engrained part of the culture of culturally Christian-European societies, and which was engrained into the culture of culturally Christian-European societies by the propagation of, and belief in, antipathetic racist religious ideological bigoted wrong views that are held, as tenets, by the religion Christianity, about the Jewish people.

I feel compassion for Copts. And I want Copts to be safe. And I wish Copts well.

However, I disapprove of anti-Jewish racism, including the anti-Jewish racism that is demonstrated by the venerating of a racist anti-Jewish Coptic Christian cleric by Christian Westerners.

However, because of the difficult situation that Copts are currently in, I feel patience with Copts who may feel veneration toward the person who has just recently died who was a Coptic Christian cleric and who held racist anti-Jewish wrong views. However, I hope that Copts may become more aware of what, in fact, is the case, and I hope that Copts will, therein, not hold antipathetic wrong views about the Jewish people.

May the Copts be safe. May Copts be well.

Correction:

I wrote:

"... However, I hope that Copts may become more aware of what, in fact, is the case, and I hope that Copts will, therein, not hold antipathetic wrong views about the Jewish people."

However, what I meant is:

"... However, I hope that Copts may become aware of what, in fact, is the case, and I hope that Copts will, therein, not hold antipathetic wrong views about the Jewish people."

May the Copts be safe. May Copts be well.

Hi Rod Dogg. Thanx for the suggestion on the documentary on the Arabic slave trade. It was an informative 40 minutes.

This video is also available on YouTube in 5 seqments. The advantage of it being on YouTube is that it can be downloaded so a permanent copy can be obtained.

The links to the YouTube version are:
Part 1: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fPfqQ9iGWbI
Part 2: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MfveaFRB3e8&feature=related
Part 3: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hOTZmOru7TE&feature=related
Part 4: http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=endscreen&NR=1&v=Jy42TP9E_wc
Part 5: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HAVCDXsnjco&feature=related

By the way, there is another video on YouTube that is quite chilling in its discussion of the Arab Slave trade. The video appears to be part of an interview of John Allembillah Azumah author of "The Legacy of Arab-Islam in Africa". This guy pulls no punches in his discussion of the culpability of Islam for the deaths of upwards of 100 million Africans over a 1400 year history of subjugating Black Africans.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pJhSejBDTPI

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8zM_MzkLKPY

Ooops. Sorry for providing a redundant link for the Azumah video. Either one points to the same video.

My prayer is that the Copts - the indigenous people of Egypt, who preserve significant elements of its pre-Islamic culture and are in continuity with its pre-Islamic history - may be delivered from the Predator Pit of dhimmitude that they currently inhabit.

I have to say I am terribly afraid that most of them will not be able to escape, and that we will witness a genocide exceeding in number of victims the Turkish Muslim mass-murder of the Armenians and even the Nazi-initiated Shoah of the Jews in Europe (a mass-murder partly inspired and encouraged by the Muslim killing of the Armenians - Hitler reportedly asked, 'Who remembers the Armenians?'); for there might be as many as ten million Copts in Egypt, and Muslim violence and hostility towards them seems to be increasing daily, and rapidly.

The Jews of Egypt were 'lucky' in that most of them seem to have got out alive; they were driven out en masse in the 1950s/ 1960s and were able to find refuge in Israel and other places.

I am not so sure the Copts will be able to get out as the Jews mostly did, or that the Muslims will even bother to drive them out rather than simply killing them.


Among the Jews whom the Muslims drove out of Egypt entirely in the 20th century was the woman who under the name Bat Yeor pioneered the historical examination of what was done to non-Muslims under Islam (at least in the western half of the area exposed to Islamic depredation; she did not have time or resources to explore the very similar - or even worse - experiences of the Buddhists and Hindus of Central and Southern Asia when Islam came howling over their horizons.

In Mr Spencer's excellent anthology "The Myth of Islamic Tolerance", there is a detailed essay by Bat Yeor which provides an overview of the history of the Copts' suffering under Islam.

It is called "A Christian Minority: The Copts in Egypt". Well worth reading. As also are her books "The Dhimmi: Jews and Christians Under Islam" and "The Decline of Eastern Christianity Under Islam".

Australian Anglican clergyman Mark Durie, having assimilated and learned from Bat Yeor's work, and extended upon it with original research of his own, has written a study of the psycho-spiritual dimension of dhimmitude in a book called "The Third Choice: Islam, Dhimmitude and Freedom". It is a deeply distressing book to read, because it anatomises the massive damage that the dhimma system sets out to inflict upon the souls of the dhimmis. (Indeed the aim of the dhimma system is nothing less than what we might call 'soul-killing'; dhimmis are meant to have no real self any more; they are intended not only to submit, but to submit without a whimper; worse, to flatter and praise their abusers even as they suffer abuse from them).

Durie describes the cleft stick in which the Copts (and all other dhimmis of whatever faith) are trapped, in this essay:


http://markdurie.blogspot.com/2011/10/double-bind-upon-copts-dhimmitude-in.html

Monday, October 10, 2011
'A Double-Bind Upon the Copts: dhimmitude in action'

I will add that my constant prayer for the Copts and for other dhimmified churches - the Lebanese and Iraqi and Syrian Christians - is that they will be freed from antisemitism wherever it is present among them. I pray the same thing for other Christian churches currently outside the Muslim-ruled countries: most notably the Greek and Russian churches, but also quite a few among the western communions. It should be noted that within the West, it is those individual parishioners and clergy who are antisemitic who seem *also*, curiously enough, to be the ones most inclined to carry water for Muslims, to side with and befriend Muslims, to be susceptible to Muslim da'wa and Muslim nonsense and lies.

It is the task of philojudaic Christians like myself to refuse to let our antisemitic brethren - of whatever confession - persist in attitudes and practices that, to be blunt, totally contradict our Lord's counsels of charity and justice. Love requires us to prayerfully and relentlessly confront them with their failure in love in this particular area, and call them to repentance. We Christians who claim to worship a Jewish carpenter as saviour of the world ought *never* to hate or mistreat real live Jewish people in the here and now.

Antonio Chaves wrote:

I hate to disrupt the mourning, but is there any substance to the reports that Shenouda gave antisemitic sermons? My main source is not (by a long shot) one of my favorite people, but sometimes Debbie Schlussel...
....................................

I'm afraid this is true, Antonio. As poster Daniel Bielak notes, this is well documented.

More:

The fact that he may have done this to better improve the survival of the Copt community in Egypt is no excuse whatsoever. The fact that they are being persecuted with more zeal than ever today is another example of THE WAGES OF APPEASEMENT.
....................................

Mostly what is happening to the Copts today is the wages of Muslim aggression.

Dhimmis in Muslim countries *have to engage in appeasement* in order to survive. Certainly, their survival is not guaranteed even then—as all the murderous violence against Infidels in Muslim countries goes to prove.

Dhimmis *have to* practice appeasement—it can be sickening to watch, but it is understandable.

We in the free West do *not* have to practice appeasement—it is disgusting, indefensible, and weakens us—yet it is all too common, even here.

Antisemitism is, sadly, quite widespread among dhimmi Christians in the Mahgreb and the Levant. Some of this is endemic, and some of it is making a show for dominant, aggressive Muslims.

I do find this antisemitism deeply disturbing—as well as rather ironic, given that Muslims hate and despise Christians almost as much as they do Jews.

The one thing I can say in Pope Shenouda's defense is that he *never*—so far as I know—called for the harming of Jewish people. Would that we could say the same for Muslims.

Ultimately, It is easy to for us in the safety of the West to claim that there is "no excuse" for appeasement.

Pope Shenouda, like all of us, was a flawed man. But he did a great deal to keep one of the most threatened peoples in the world today somewhat safe, and did so at great personal cost.

I don't want to minimize or deny his shortcomings, but today I want to salute the good that he did.

Unsurprisingly, today's (Sunday) NYT did not mention a single word of Pope Shenouda's anti-Semitism in its encomium to the deceased Coptic spiritual leader. The NYT goes out of its way to avoid reporting Muslim anti-Semitism (it rarely or never mentions it when reporting on jihadists or other Islamists) and any Christian it deems politically correct. If a right-wing Christian, such as Pat Robertson, makes an anti-Semitic remark, you can bet the Gray Lady will be all over it. If someone involved in any politically correct movement, such as 'mainstream' (anti-Israel/'anti-Zionist') liberal Protestantism, does it, you can bet your bottom dollar the Times won't say a word. The NYT, owned largely by the Sulzberger family, which maintains its "we're not THOSE kind of Jews" attitude, just as it did back in the '30s and '40s when the Nazi phase of the Holocaust was raging (I call it the Nazi phase because it never ended; the Arabs and Muslims just became the main perps), and has proven not only that it has not learned from history, but is completely contemptuous of it: if there is anti-Semitism in the world, it's not our problem, it's not "fit to print," and anyway THOSE Jews caused it by being pushy, "too Jewish," etc. I hate the NYT more and more every day- and I still read it every day. What is the matter with me?

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