Chag Pesach sameach

Wishing a sweet Passover to all Jihad Watch readers tonight.

Yes, as always, this year once again I mean all of you, not just Jewish readers, although to them the greetings are of course particularly directed. Israel remains on the front lines of the global jihad, and is increasingly isolated and vilified as that jihad advances everywhere. As such, we are all Jews, in the sense that we stand with the Jews and with all who are on the side of humane values and civilization that allows the human spirit to flower.

It is more necessary than ever for all free people to stand with the Jews and with Israel on the front lines of the jihad. The fact that there are fewer of us this year, and more and more are giving up and capitulating in various ways to the forces of oppression and darkness, makes it all the more important for those of us who remain to stand, and to stand firm with all we’ve got.

Stand with Israel and all Jews worldwide against the jihad and Islamic supremacism! Stand with Israel for human rights! Stand with Israel for freedom!

Chag Pesach sameach! Am Yisroel chai!

FacebookTwitterLinkedInDiggBlogger PostDeliciousEmailPinterestRedditStumbleUponPrint

Comments

  1. says

    Hi ppl – this is my first post on Jihadwatch. Happy passover all. In Christian tradition today is Good Friday. I bookmarked Jihadwatch some time ago because I detest Arab tribalism and barbarity – which goes under the name Islam. But I did not realise that Jihadwatch is a particularly Jewish thing. I am athiest – but Islam affects my world as badly as it does yours. Just as you say we are all semites – (and I am semite here) – so also you should accept that this aint a strictly Jewish concern. Where do you say “happy Easter”? Do Christians not count in the equation against arab extremism? Then I must ask you – do Palestinians’grievances not count either? Is Israel as blameless as the Evangelical crazies of America? Where is God in all this? Nowhere. This hatred is purely manmade – and Israel is no angel in this mire. So I say to all my Jewish neighbours, Happy Passover, and I will add an athiest Irish traditional blessing – “may your every child know only smiles”. Just remember, on this day you call sacred, Palestinians have children also, and no child wears the guilt of the parent, at least not in my athiest, religion-free, rational world.

  2. says

    Jews enlighten the world. Muslims darken it. To the extent that one disagrees with this assessment, then I would vigorously argue that in direct proportion to the extent one disagrees with me here, then to that extent, on this particular issue, one is either ignorant or malevolent or both.

    One of the two intellectual cornerstones of Western Civilization is Jewish theological thought, the other being ancient Greek philosophical thought. The Islamic world, at best, preserved here and there a portion of these two great intellectual traditions, but really added nothing of substance to either (even Avicenna and Averroes, as Bertrand Russell noted in his history of Western philosophy, couldn’t touch the originality of mind possessed by a Christian thinker like Thomas Aquinas). Islam certainly never realized that both the Jewish and Greek traditions superseded it most effortlessly. In short, Islam was, when even in optimum mode, a transmitter and nothing more. How fitting and ironic in this respect, Islam being a glorified servant and that’s all, since all the while, through the ages, Muslims have thought of non-Muslims as the inferior ones. Can’t make this stuff up.

    There is absolutely nothing good in Islam which can’t be found elsewhere, and yet there is so much wrong in Islam that is hard to find anywhere else. In any case, a memorable Passover to Jews across the world. Jews have obliterated Muslims in the sheer number of human accomplishments achieved by them through the ages, even though Jews have always formed only an extremely small percentage of the Homo sapiens species compared to Muslims. All of this, of course, is part of the reason why Jews are so hated by the deluded followers of that malevolent seventh-century Arab con artist who goes by the name of Mohammed.

    There are other reasons why Islam is so deeply anti-Semitic. Muslims, after all, are masters at finding reasons to hate, be it Jews, or other non-believers, or even fellow Muslims. But Jews, consistently outperforming and outthinking Muslims, have driven Muslims nuts from Mohammed onwards, and this is a major source of Islam’s profound antipathy towards Jews, the People of the Book taqiyya notwithstanding.

    What a legacy Islam has left and is still leaving to all the world. Sick of this legacy. Most everyone should be by now. No good comes from totalitarian thought, which is antithetical to the best of the human tradition. Always has been. Always will. That’s why humans like Marx, Hitler and Mohammed should always be confined to the ninth circle, whether figuratively or literally. They so richly deserve it.

  3. says

    In my very meagre understanding of Judaism – and can we agree here that Jesus – as far as he ever existed – was a Jew – said “let he who has not sinned cast the first stone”. So like it was okay some time in Jewish history to stone women? Where did Mohammed get that practice from? And another thing – clarify for me – who invented algebra? Who invented today’s western alphabet? Peace be upon you.

  4. says

    You call me miserable – I am who I say I am – I am no troll – I seek only to better understand – so why do you feel the need to denigrate me with terms like “miserable”. Was I not sufficiently respectful in my first post? Am I wrong to think of Palestinion children? Can you tolerate no criticism?

  5. says

    Okay Wellington – no response to my last post. Can I ask who on earth do you imagine yourself to be that you decide on whether or not my posts pass some quiz in your head? Now I will become a regular commentator on this site. Now I will react determinedly as devil’s advocate on this site. Now I will take every opportunity to brush aside your unthinking, unfeeling arrogance. Are the Jews God’s Chosen? Every religion, Abrahamic or otherwise, calls its club members the Chosen. The planet is riven by religious dogma – would you have us all subscribe to the Torah? The Muslims want to convert the world to Islam – just as Christians in their turn wanted to convert the world. Perhaps you, if you are Jewish, consider that Jews are a superior race – that essentially anyone who isn’t Jewish is essentially damned. Judaism is the birthplace of the three primary Abrahamic religions – which of those religions gave most to modern science? Who gave us algreba? Ooh yeah it wasn’t a religion – it was in fact the arabs – nothing to do with religion at all in fact.

  6. says

    Wellington – did you just say that the western alphebate originated with the Egyptans? Arabs – my point ecactly. But please don’t think I wish to seem an apologist for Muslim terrorism – I condemn it as any sane person does – but in your first post that Arab societies have contributed nothing to modern life – don’t you wanna include the Egyptans? And who yet as denied above that it was the arabs created algebra? I don’t seek to apologise for Islam – as an athiest I pray for its demise, just as I pray for the demise of all religions – I take the word “pray” from you – and pray to 21st century common sense.

    Ooh and boneshack – I have a degree in English literature from Keele university in the UK – so somebody likes my English :)

  7. says

    The Pharaoh is back, only this time he’s a member of the Muslim Brotherhood. Now for some plagues from the counter-jihad…
    Thanks to the staff at JW and Happy Easter to you!

  8. says

    Wellington – you are a new experience for me. I am a 54 yr old father of three kids living in Plymouth England. Believe you? What is your problem with believing me? I did not seek to decieve – I spoke the truth but you deny my sincerity. How can I argue with that? I guess the world is big enough for your paranoia, my sincerity, and even perhaps the view expressed by exsgtbrown above, who chooses to regard all Palestinian children as destined to slaughter jews. That opinion is so monstrous. What is the Jewish resolution with the Palestinians – give them a scrap of desert and tell them to die happy? WW2 was never a reason, nor justification, for the Allies to stake out Palestine and call it Israel. Jerusalem does not belong to the Jews – by this simple yardstick – if it is truly a seat of God – then it belongs to all men – and women. You may disagree with my opinion Wellington, but one of us is grievously wrong. You say I am a deceiver – I say I am sincere. Just think how wrong that makes you if I am in fact sincere :)

    Apologies to others posting if I seem to be hogging this subject but hey – there were no comments before me :)

  9. says

    Boneshack – masterful bullshit on your part. Is the word “ALGEBRA” a Greek word? Look it up. And who the hell is Fjorman? I will have to look up this master. What university – what century – what discipline – any information you can provide me will help me to read up on this master(bator).

  10. says

    Happy Passover! Long live Israel! I hope its still their next year.

    I come here to see what the very sophisticated and informed have to say about Islam and I’m never disappointed but the ignorant and posers are cool too.

  11. says

    oops sorry boneshack I forgot to ask – are Egyptians not arab? Do please elucidate. I don’t profess to know all but hey – I’m sure you can tell me – is not the culture that is Egyptian Arab?

  12. says

    God bless Israel.

    A sweet Passover to all Jewish participants in this forum, both posters and lurkers.

    May the Holy One be a wall of fire around Jerusalem and may He be the glory in her midst. (Zechariah 2: 5). And may He, indeed, be a wall of fire all around the people of Israel.

    The West owes the Jews. The world owes the Jews.

    Anyone who wants to find out just how much, I advise you to read Tom Cahill, ‘The Gifts of the Jews’ – chapter two, ‘The Journey in the Dark’ and chapter three ‘Egypt: From Slavery to Freedom’.

    In that second chapter – ‘So, wayyelekh Avram’, Avram went – two of the boldest words in all literature. They signal a complete departure from everything that has gone before in the long evolution of culture and sensibility. Out of Sumer, civilised repository of the predictable, comes a man who does not know where he is going, but goes forth into the unknown wilderness under the prompting of his god.. Out of Mesopotami, home of canny, self-serving merchants who use their gods to ensure prosperity and favour, comes a wealthy caravan with no material goal. Out of ancient humanity, which from the dim beginnings of its consciousness has read its eternal verities in the stars, comes a party travelling by no known compass. Out of the human race, which knows in its bones that all its striving must end in death, comes a leader who says he has been given an impossible promise.

    “If we had lived in the second millennium BC, the millennium of Avram, and could have canvassed all the nations of the earth, what would they have said of Avram’s journey? In most of Africa and Europe…they would have laughed at Avram’s madness, and pointed to the heavens…His wife is barren as winter, they would say, a man cannot escape his fate…The early Greeks might have told Avram the story of Promethius…Do not overreach, they would advise; come to resignation. In India he would be told that time is black, irrational and merciless. Do not set yourself the task of accomplishing anything in time, which is only the dominion of suffering…”. – Gifts of the Jews, pp. 63-64.

    And then, discussing the release from Egypt:

    “It is Pharaoh’s pretense to a dominion that he does ot own…that is mocked in Exodus, that gives the narrative is satirical edge…when a human being arrogates to himself the role of God, he must fail miserably.

    “The implications of this lesson were radical in their time, since there was no political edifice that did not claim to be founded by a god. In one fell swoop this subversive narrative delegitimizes all political structures claiming a god as their author – delegitimizes in fact all the political structures of the ancient world.” – p 117

    and in the fourth chapter, ‘Sinai: from Death to Life’, Gergen drives home one of his central contentions:

    “For the ancients, the future was always to be a replay of the past, as the past was simply an earthly replay of the drama of the heavens: “History repeats itself”, that is, false history, the history that is not history but myth.

    “For the Jews, history will be no less replete with moral lessons. But the moral is not that history repeats itself, but that it is always something new: a process unfolding through time, whose direction and end we cannot know, except insofar as God gives us some hint of what is to come. The future will not be what has happened before; indeed, the only reality that the future has is that it has not happened yet. It is unknowable; and what it will be cannot be discovered by auguries…We do not control the future; in a profound sense, even God does not control the future, because it is the collective responsibility of those who are bringing about the future by their actions in the present. For this reason, the concept of the future – for the first time – holds out promise, rather than just the same old thing.

    “We are not doomed, not bound to some predetermined fate; we are free.

    “If anything can happen, we are truly liberated – as liberated as were the Israelite slaves when they crossed the Sea of Reeds.

    “This marvellous new sense of time did not descend upon the Israelites all at once.

    “What began as the call of Avraham to leave his place and people and set out for an unknown destiny blossomed into the vocation of Moshe to lead his enslaved people out of the god-haunted ambience of cyclical Egypt, where everything that would be had already been and all important questions had been answered, already set in stone like the staring, immobile statues of Pharaoh…

    ‘Taken together, these two great escapes give us an entirely new sense of past and future – the past as constitutive of the present, the future as truly unknown”.

    – Gifts of the Jews, ppl. 130-131-32

    http://www.pbs.org/newshour/gergen/july98/cahill_7-23.html
    ANCESTRAL APPRECIATION

    “…DAVID GERGEN: So how would you summarize then “The Gifts of the Jews” to the way we think and live?

    “THOMAS CAHILL: Two clusters of ideas and feelings that we all have and which we couldn’t live without-namely our approach to time and especially our idea about the future-and secondly our idea of individuality, but the third thing, which we don’t talk about that much, is the Jewish idea of justice, the idea that we each have a responsibility to other human beings, particularly to human beings who have less than we do. That really is the original idea that the Jews had that say that even the Commandment against murder was really a Commandment against injustice, that you had no right to pass by someone who didn’t have enough to eat if you had more than enough to eat.
    You had a responsibility toward that person. This Jewish idea of justice never existed before the Jews. You can find nothing like this anywhere..”.

    And then there is this: the Sinai Covenant, which should properly be called the Sinai Revolution, for its implications – ‘unpacked’ slowly over time, both by Jews and then by Christians also – are at bottom more revolutionary than the Magna Carta or the Declaration of Independence, and neither Magna Carta nor the Declaration would, I submit, exist, had Abraham never left Ur and had Moses and the people of Israel never left Egypt…had the House of Israel never existed.

    http://www.azure.org.il/article.php?id=131
    “God’s Alliance With Man”.

    Excerpt:

    “Whereas much scholarly discussion has focused on the idea of the people of Israel as a collective, and the covenant referring to an entire nation as such enjoined in a covenantal bond with God, I will argue in what follows that within the covenantal narratives human kingship is bestowed not only upon the entire Israelite polity, but upon each individual member of that polity as well. God is a king who enters into a treaty not only with the Jewish people as a lesser king, but with each individual Jew, subordinate yet possessing honor and standing in his own right.

    The implications of this claim- that subordinate kingship devolves upon the individual no less than the people-may extend far beyond the scholarly debates. The idea of covenant may in fact be indicative of a profound revolution which biblical thinking represented in the ancient world, a revolution which is with us to this day.”

    And what is fascinating in the Orthodox Christian scholar David Bentley Hart’s three great works – Beauty of the Infinite, Doors of the Sea, and the less fortunately named ‘Atheist Delusions: The Christian Revolution and Its Fashionable Enemies’ (he should just have called it ‘The Christian Revolution’) – is that the ‘Christian revolution’ that he magnificently describes and analyses should really perhaps be called ‘the Biblical revolution’, because in every particular it is in deep continuity with the prior cataclysmic reframing of man, cosmos and divinity that happens in the life of Israel and is recorded in the Hebrew scriptures.

  13. says

    “Can you tolerate no criticism?”

    I’d like to ask YOU that question, Mark. And who are YOU to waltz in here from the blue, make statements, and expect them not to be examined and critqued?

    “Are the Jews God’s Chosen? Perhaps you, if you are Jewish, consider that Jews are a superior race”

    That’s funny, Mark, but I see don’t see those statements made here by anyone. Help me out, Mark, show me where that was said. Mr. Spencer greeted Jewish folks on their holiday. He will do the same for Christians on Sunday. You either know NOTHING about this site–or perhaps you have a little problem with Jews?

    “Palestinians have children also, and no child wears the guilt of the parent…”

    Well, Mark, I say they they do wear that guilt. They are taught, systematically, from an early age, to hate infidels, but especialy Jews. It’s right there in the Koran! As a result, they are ALL potential terrorists and enemies. That it’s not their fault doesn’t change this reality.

    “The Muslims want to convert the world to Islam – just as Christians in their turn wanted to convert the world.”

    What a non-starter! The issue is not their goals–it’s their METHODS! Over 18,000 Jihad attacks since 9/11/2001–how many Christian attacks? Jewish attacks? Buddhist attacks?
    And you wonder why Wellington calls you miserable? Duh!

    “Peace be upon you.”

    Is that right? Is your real name Muhammad-something?

    If you’re going to be the devil’s advocate here, you’d better have more than you’ve shown so far. The regulars here will carve you up like a Christmas Goose–and you’ll DESERVE it!

  14. says

    Guys,check this out:

    “Video by Muslim Liberal Irshad Manji where she says it is OK to Question the Koran”

    http://www.antisharia.com/2012/04/07/video-by-muslim-liberal-irshad-manji-where-she-says-it-is-ok-to-question-the-koran/

    AND ALSO

    “Navas de Tolosa,in 1212,the Epic Battle that Saved Spain from becoming another 100% Muslim Country like Morocc”

    http://www.antisharia.com/2011/10/03/navas-de-tolosain-1212the-epic-battle-that-saved-spain-from-becoming-another-100-muslim-country-like-morocco/

    “Egypt Brotherhood candidate says sharia is main goal”

    http://www.maghrebchristians.com/2012/04/05/egypt-brotherhood-candidate-says-sharia-is-main-goal/

  15. says

    Guys,check this out:

    “Video by Muslim Liberal Irshad Manji where she says it is OK to Question the Koran”

    http://www.antisharia.com/2012/04/07/video-by-muslim-liberal-irshad-manji-where-she-says-it-is-ok-to-question-the-koran/

    AND ALSO

    “Navas de Tolosa,in 1212,the Epic Battle that Saved Spain from becoming another 100% Muslim Country like Morocc”

    http://www.antisharia.com/2011/10/03/navas-de-tolosain-1212the-epic-battle-that-saved-spain-from-becoming-another-100-muslim-country-like-morocco/

    “Egypt Brotherhood candidate says sharia is main goal”

    http://www.maghrebchristians.com/2012/04/05/egypt-brotherhood-candidate-says-sharia-is-main-goal/

  16. says

    Jee McCafferty – who are the ignorant and the posers? I aint been long enough on this site to learn your discernment. Does nobody on this site accept sincere criticism?

  17. says

    Although it was purposely written for Christmas, i think the central message of this excerpt is valid for any season and should be upheld by anyone who is on the side of humane values, freedom of speech, freedom of conscience and civilization that allows the human spirit to flower.

    “So this Christmas, may all of us whose conversion, subjugation, or death is envisioned by the adherents of Sharia stand together. Let us stand together as Jews, Christians, Hindus, Buddhists, atheists, secularists, what have you, and stand up against those who would kill us or subject us to institutionalized discrimination because they find our beliefs offensive. For be assured: if we do not stand together, they will prevail. And if they prevail, then all the richest manifestations of the unfettered human spirit, from Theophanes the Cretan above to the fashioners of the Buddhas of Bamiyan, from the Hagia Sophia to the temple of Keshava Rai at Mathura, from the works of Socrates and Aristotle to those of Moses Maimonides and Dante Alighieri and Winston Churchill and Oriana Fallaci, will be trampled into the mud, destroyed, exploded, ruined, effaced. We will all be the poorer. Our children will be the poorer. It is time to fight for our life.”

    by Robert Spencer

    Happy Passover! God bless Israel!

  18. says

    Euskalherria – apologies for my spelling. I am dyslexic – does that diminish me in your mind? Try to focus on my meaning – and not nitpick my keyboard skills

  19. says

    Just a final comment before I retire. As boneshack already noted, anyone thinking the ancient Egyptians equivalent to Arabs is so profoundly ignorant (or tendentious) that they need not be listened to. Not at all. It is not the truth such people seek—only propaganda to further their particular point. How patehtic. How misinformed. But how so very Islamic.

    Really, to equate the ancient Egyptians, from Menes to the Thirtieth dynasty, as Manetho under the Ptolemies chronicled in the third century B.C.,as an Arab phenomenon, is to be either so profoundly ignorant or mendacious that such a person henceforth should have no credibility whatsoever. None.

    “Mark Dask” is either a Muslim troll or a super useful idiot (my money would be on the former). Either way, he’s of no consequence and should, in the future, be ignored, though I suspect this person will, after a certain interval, reappear under a differnt name proffering his nonsense and/or deception. If he’s extra silly (which is certainly possible), he will continue in efforts under “Mark Dask” to put forth further rubbish which in no way will accord with the truth.

    Now it’s bed time for an old guy. So long to all reasaonable persons out there, and to those who aren’t, up yours.

  20. says

    Further – Euskalherria – I read the rest of your post – thank you for your very considerate expression. I know of, and respect, Pamella Geller. I need nobody to tell me that Islam is the worst social infection that has ever struck mankind.I have been arguing right from the start, however, that it is REASON that will eventually extinguish this virus, whereas the various religions other than Islam are screaming MY god will save you. Every religion/belief system regards Islam as the definitive poison – but I, as an athiest argue, it is the very concept of religion that is the poison – the muslims just happen to be the most extreme. Try this. I have known many Jews in my 54 year life and I have never known an intolerant jew in that time. Similarly I have known Jainists, Sikhs, Buddhists, Hindus, Christians of many flavours, and we all live together almost entirely harmoniously. Only Islam is violently opposed to communal living. But consider – will you extinguish Muslim intolerance by war alone? Or do you accept the 21st century, RATIONAL, approach? Teach the children – breed the htred out of these people. It is working in Northern Ireland and Bosnia. Do we seriously benefit as a species by hating Palestinian children? Thank you for your post

  21. says

    Mark Dusk, if he is not a Mohammedan in a mask playing faux-naive, needs to do some homework, fast.

    This sums the whole ‘Middle East’ thing up in a few pages of which every word and stated historical and textual reference is accurate and verifiable. The ‘arab’ war upon Israel is a classic Jihad, waged not just by the local Arab Muslims but by the entire Ummah, against not only the Jewish state of Israel but, ultimately, all Jews everywhere (as we saw in Toulouse, when an Arab/Berber Muslim of North African extraction, Mohammed Merah, seized a tiny Jewish elementary-school pupil, Miriam Monsonego, by her ponytail and shot her point-blank through the head).

    http://www.americanthinker.com/2010/06/why_islam_will_never_accept_th.html

    Why Islam Will Never Accept the State of Israel

    By Steven Simpson, THE AMERICAN THINKER June 30 2010

    And this does it in a nutshell.

    http://drybonesblog.blogspot.com/2011/01/repackaging.html

    I will add a further point: Mark Duse seemed to think, above, that ‘Egyptians’ are (or always were) ‘Arabs’.

    ROFLMAO.

    I’d like to see him trying to persuade any Copt, of the remnant of the pre-Islamic indigenous people of Egypt, that he or she is an ‘Arab’. Let’s hear what Coptic-American scholar Raymond Ibrahim – or any of the other Copts who contribute here – have to say on the subject…

    I’d also like to see him ‘prove’ that the Coptic language – which they only stopped speaking because the invading, occupying Arab Muslims suppressed its use with extreme cruelty, for example by cutting out the tongues of Coptic women caught speaking it, so that they could not teach it to their children – is identical with Arabic. No serious linguist would entertain that idea for a millisecond.

    Egypt is currently inhabited by two major populations. There are those, who over 1200 years have steadily become the majority (by all sorts of underhanded methods, including the wholesale seizure and rape of minor girls from the subject population) who identify as Arab, either because they descend from the Arab Muslim invaders and occupiers, or because they have long forgotten their Coptic ancestors who were either forcibly converted and, so to speak, ‘memory-wiped’, or else foolishly or wickedly or with spirits broken by the grinding misery of dhimmitude, ‘willingly’ became Muslim and then were culturally and linguistically Arabised.

    And there is that ten percent of the population, almost all practising Christians, who call themselves Copts, and maintain an unbroken cultural and historic continuity with the pre-Islamic population of Egypt, all the way back through Byzantine and Greco-Roman times, to the pharaohs.

    The Copts now suffer as the Hebrew slaves suffered long ago, but in their case they are not in exile, rather, they are in their own ancestral homeland which now swarms with Mohammedan barbarian thugs who trample daily upon the human rights of the Copts, destroying life and property.

    What the Muslims do to the Copts today (and worse; they have done worse in the historic past) is what they fully intend to do to the Jews of Israel also, if they can – for it is what they did to the Jews who *used* to live in Egypt (and who had lived there since the time of Jeremiah, and since the time of Greek and Roman Alexandria where the Septuagint was translated, centuries before the invention of Islam and the invasion by Muslims), and what in fact they did over and over to the Jews who lived within ‘Arab’/ Muslim lands, all the way from Morocco to Afghanistan.

    (See Bostom’s The Legacy of Islamic Antisemitism, for more; see also Martin Gilbert’s ‘In Ishmael’s House’, and Stillmann’s ‘The Jews of Arab Lands'; and see Bat Yeor, ‘The dhimmi: Jews and Christians under Islam’, and her searing essay on the history and sufferings of the Copts under their Muslim overlords, “A Christian Minority: The Copts in Egypt’, in Mr Spencer’s anthology ‘The Myth of Islamic Tolerance’).

  22. says

    Gee I am a brand new person to this sitend seem to have generated a lot of hostility -hard to keep up with.

    George – I have seen muslim/palestinian children learning by rote to hate and kill Jews. I know that hatred is being inculcated in Palestinian children – its sick – but I ask you as one civilised person to another George – what is your resolution to these hating children? Do you choose to reeducate such children? Or do you teach your own children to hate in kind?

    Let me remind everyone – I am an athiest Irishman of 54 years age. I have never known an angry Jew – until I came on this site. Chill out ppl – I am not a jihadist – I just wanna know – do any of you perceive any possibility of peace beyond total obliteration?

  23. says

    Euskalherria – my apologies if you thought I was being obscene when I referred to “Ffjordman” as a master(bator). I thought that counted for adult wit. But obscenity aside – who is he? Discipline – century – notable works – legitimacy as an authority of any kind?

    What makes him a master of anything? Why is he quoted as a “Swedish master”? Bullshit is bullshit no matter what choice of dress.

  24. says

    Ariel VII – I love the fact that you got the spoonerism – markdask – darkmask. No I am not satan – I represent yin and yang – the sad and happy faces of the universal clown – the two faces of the BAFTA awards – but if you want to know why I chose the name Markdask – you should find my page on wikipedia. There I explain how the name markdask is associated with Danish princes – shakespeare – but that association might fly clean over the heads of those who condemn me on this site. Happy passover

  25. says

    @Mark Dask

    >i’m an atheist
    >So like it was okay some time in Jewish history to stone women? Where did Mohammed get that practice from? And another thing – clarify for me – who invented algebra? Who invented today’s western alphabet? Peace be upon you.

    Cool taqiyya bro!.

  26. says

    A gut yomtiff! Happy Passover.

    This year, the beginning of Passover corresponds with Good Friday. And here is a text for this time of year, albeit one that is not usually associated with it:

    “Now shall the prince of this world [Satan] be cast out.” (John 12:31).

    Usually, Good Friday is associated with sorrow and tragedy. However, no Christian should forget that in giving His life for our sins, Jesus overthrew Satan. By making atonement for his people on the cross, Jesus rendered them safe from Satan’s accusations against them.

    After all, what is “Shatan” but the Adversary, the prosecuting attorney who lays before God the Judge of all the various sins which should justly condemn us to Hell? But what charge can this prosecutor lay to those whose sins have been borne by the Messiah, God Incarnate, and left behind in the grave when Jesus rose from the dead?

    “For Christ our Passover is sacrificed for us.” (I Corinthians 5:7).

    Christ’s blood marks the doors of His people, so God’s wrath passes over them.

    This is a key place where Muhammad and the Qur’an completely miss the point and show themselves infinitely inferior to the Word of the Gospel. The writer of the Qur’an mistakenly believes he honors the Messiah by denying his death on the cross; when nothing could be more dishonoring to God and truth. But it is in that sacrificial death on the cross that “the LORD laid on him [Messiah] the iniquity of us all” (Isaiah 53:6, cf. I Peter 2:24, Mark 10:45).

  27. says

    Mark Dask, some commenters at Jihad Watch definitely get too hostile too fast. Even the slightest challenge is sometimes taken as an affront. That’s not a reasonable response. I don’t agree with a number of things you’ve said, but I don’t see any reason yet to assume you an insincere person, or of ill will.

    There are a range of views here about what should be done about Islam’s totalitarian threat. Probably it would be good to keep in mind most of all what the leader of this site thinks. Spencer seems to me scrupulously loyal to Western human rights values, including in how he proposes to deal with Islamic totalitarianism.

  28. says

    Ole Hartling – thank you for your kindly welcome. I aint arguing any religion – I am arguing none. I don’t care how many thousands of years old your handbook is – I only see the child – the future of humanity – being scrapped over by a bunch of mysogenist old men – virtually all of whom came from desert. Forget who invented what – what should rule today is a child’s smile – the same smile that is tickled by the Mars rover. Should we judge each others’ children by ancient hatreds? Or should we feel sneakily jealous of the vast future our children can look forward to – after we and our old laws and hatreds are dust? I vote for the future – when hatred is consigned to the dusty old opinions from whence they arose.

  29. says

    Choi – to quote you – “to what do your malevolent presence here?” Where did the word malevolent come from? What is malevolent about greater understanding? What is malevolent about beseeching extremistists like yourself to hold back? What is malevolent in asking all religions to put your children – your future – first?
    What have I said that is malevolent? I have said no word against any man or culture. I have only said that Islam is a virus, destructive, hateful, abhorrent in the extreme – but I say we can no more condemn the diseased than we can condemn the disabled in our own communities. To hate Islam is to compromise our own virtue – by hatred. Now what is malevolent in that?

  30. says

    Dumbledoresarmy – how dare you suggest that the Toulouse tragedy was entirely Jewish versus Muslim. It may have been the intention of that monster to offend Judaism specifically, but do you not accept that the entire world was offended by this outrage – irrespective of religion? Merah offended ALL precepts of decency – and religion in the matter is irrelevant.

  31. says

    Remember, folks, when someone comes here and criticizes or challenges, it means many, many more comments. Isn’t that far better for Jihad Watch than that there be only 10 comments after a story, and only people preaching to the choir?

    So we should welcome controversy here, and learn to meet it with grace, kindness, logic, and facts. We should not assume that someone is a deceiver or malicious simply because they come here disagreeing. A lot of people sincerely disagree, really don’t understand. They need to be met with the best possible arguments and facts.

    C.S. Lewis says somewhere that “Opposition is true friendship.”

  32. says

    Actually, it was William Blake who said “opposition is true friendship.” C.S. Lewis’s colleague Owen Barfield, in dedicating a book to Lewis, employed that William Blake quote to characterize his (Barfield’s) friendship with Lewis.

  33. says

    Cool boneshack – you call me a leftard – kinda borrowing from AronRa’s word “creatard”. Since when did you begin to rely on athiests to define your use of English? Creatard – I thought this site was primarily about Jewish expression – but no way are you Jewish – in my experience it requires personality to call yourself Jewish. You – boneshack – are an embarrassment

  34. says

    Dear Kepha – you are very kind to go into such detail in your explanation – but I am genuinely worn out by the shock reaction from this site regarding my simple comments. I need to sleep. I will comment tomorrow. Thank you again for your kindness

  35. says

    Mark Dask, I hope you realize that Robert Spencer is part of a “Melkite Greek Catholic church” which is connected with various eastern Catholic churches, and is fully part of Catholicism, but is not specifically Roman Catholic. Spencer is not Jewish. Jihad Watch does not proselytize Christianity. Its central focus, as you will see over time, is to criticize the aspects of Islam that are inimical to basic human rights like freedom of speech, freedom of conscience, freedom of religion, and the equality of dignity of all peoples. Islam’s core texts are strongly against all of that.

  36. says

    Hi Istanbul_Chick!
    Maybe you’re right.

    But I read him as merely a little provocative at times, and a little misinformed about this and that. Which is how most of us are now and again. I also read him as capable of learning and contributing here at some point, because he has some major common ground with this site. He’s made it clear he sees that Islam is a huge threat, and that it’s not equivalent to the other religions. In a way, that’s the main kahuna, to see that, and the rest is details. He’s also shown that he is capable of a little bit of vulnerability, a certain honesty, and that takes a little courage sometimes. A lot of his posts seem to be genuinely appealing to other commenters for a bit of understanding and friendliness, in a way that seems the opposite of a manipulator.

    I could be misreading him of course, but I think he’s probably quite okay and just needs to be part of the discussion for a while to get up to speed.

  37. says

    Here’s the main reason, perhaps, I see Dask as genuine. He said:

    I have known many Jews in my 54 year life and I have never known an intolerant jew in that time. Similarly I have known Jainists, Sikhs, Buddhists, Hindus, Christians of many flavours, and we all live together almost entirely harmoniously. Only Islam is violently opposed to communal living.

    It’s true that Dask has a lot of views that are, from my perspective, misinformed. But if he’s saying in the above quote what I think he’s saying, then he gets the main point. He just needs a lot of fine tuning. 😉

  38. says

    Mark Dask,
    You must be a little overwhelmed with everybody at you.

    You said

    I only see the child – the future of humanity – being scrapped over by a bunch of mysogenist old men – virtually all of whom came from desert.

    It turns out that Abraham was not from the desert. The evidence, according to historian Paul Johnson, is that he came out of a sophisticated urban setting. The same is true for Christianity. It did not emerge from the desert. It came out of a Mediterranean and urban setting. Further, it is quite arguable that ancient Greek civilization was more misogynist than was either Jewish or Christian culture. In fact many historians have presented evidence that both religions were significant liberators of women over time, as compared with other civilizations.

    As I see it, it’s a mistake to assume that atheism is necessarily and always good, and religion is necessarily and always bad. That position is not discerning enough. Because in fact some forms of atheism, in some settings and times, are mostly destructive, while some atheisms in some circumstances are mostly creative and liberating. The same is true of religion: some forms of it in some circumstances are liberating, some forms of it are destructive.

    I don’t mean to suggest that it makes no difference if one is an atheist or religious, and that both ways of seeing can be equally true. It does make a difference, and I don’t think both positions can be equally true. But at the moment I’m less interested in that question than I am in simply pointing out that the notion that all atheism is good and all religion is bad is inaccurate, indiscriminate, and uninformed about history.

  39. says

    @ Daft Mask, or however he calls himself

    You wrote: ‘ I represent yin and yang – the sad and happy faces of the universal clown ..’

    Well, I’m glad we agree that you’re a clown! But seriously….

    You bust down the door of JW while everyone is enjoying a soothing moment to celebrate the Jewish Passover and start picking fights with everyone. Then you claim that you’re the victim, a very Islamic thing to do, because long-time posters here get a mite tetchy.

    Advice: Learn some manners, take time to read around JW’s archives, and catch up with the sharpest, most accurate critiques of Islam’s bogus claims. Then come back, introduce yourself politely and join in the civilized conversation.

    Of course, this advice will be useless if you are a Muslim troll masquerading as an atheist. We’ve had a few of these recently!

  40. says

    I agree with Wellington, boneshack, Istanbul Chick, and everyone else who sees this ‘mark’ as the latest mohammedan/leftist troll.

    Reasons:

    1. He states he’s ‘bookmarked’ the site, but then describes JW as a *Jewish* site. What, he bookmarks, but doesn’t read the articles ? And he chooses *Passover* to make his first post, referencing the plight of *palestinian* children, but makes no reference to a mohammedan who murdered 3 little Jewish children in cold blood, and *filmed* himself doing it, whilst shrieking ‘allahu akbar’.

    2. He uses the usual mohammedan attempt at grabbing kudos for inventing algebra etc, no matter how many times that’s been shot down by scholars everywhere. (I bet he loved that video claiming Moses was a mohammedan.)

    3. Wellington told him his first *post* had failed miserably – he immediately twists that around to accuse Wellington of calling *him* miserable – again, typical mohammedan/leftist tactic of imputing personal insult to a criticism of a stance.

    4. He says: ”Now I will become a regular commentator on this site. Now I will react determinedly as devil’s advocate on this site. Now I will take every opportunity to brush aside your unthinking, unfeeling arrogance” Oh boy, mohammedan aggression and projection, as soon as their idiotic ‘arguments’ are called out.

    5. The nauseating ‘peace be upon you’ reminds me queasily of Walid and Baklava with their ‘good mornings’, and ‘sweetness’ – yuk.

    6. ”Ooh and boneshack – I have a degree in English literature from Keele university in the UK – so somebody likes my English :)” : Keele is a redbrick bastion of leftist moral equivalency, so no great kudos there ! And if he’s dyslexic as he claims, I hope in his next post (but I sincerely doubt there will be one, he’s been so comprehensively reamed.), he will explain what methods he used to take his finals.

    7. ”K so are you retired now Wellington? Goodnight and sleep well. Rest easy I will be here tomorrow for you to hate.” They just keep coming and coming. Every leftist I’ve ever known, and every mohammedan, immediately starts calling one a ‘hater’ as soon as their ridiculous deceptions/arguments are challenged.

    8. ”To hate Islam is to compromise our own virtue – by hatred. Now what is malevolent in that?” His illogicality is *glaring*; first he says he agrees with JW’s stance that islam is inherently vicious and evil, and now he’s saying we mustn’t hate it ? Right, it’s really *bad* to hate viciousness, cruelty. We should just lay down in front of it and let it roll over on us, right, ‘mark’ ?

    9. He tries to say the murderer mehra’s actions had nothing to do with islam – even though the scum was shrieking ‘allahu akbar’ while he was murdering innocents, and *filming* himself doing it.

    10. He slinks off, after taking the typical victim stance – we’re all meanies and ‘haters.’

    Yep. For me, ten very good reasons to see this creep as either a mohammedan in a mask, or a vulgar little leftist enabler, here to bait and provocate, on *Passover.* My bet is he won’t be back. Or if he is, as Wellington says, he’ll be wearing another mask.

  41. says

    Have a great and happy Passover …and a Happy Easter.

    After reading through all those Dask posts, I almost forgot the topic…Reminds me a little of Larry King when he says…’What’s yer point’? Whatever his point was, it got lost in the shuffle…Maybe he will show up and get a better start…

  42. says

    When I saw the high comment count, I suspected it had to be due to one or both of the usual suspects: either religious versus non-religious dispute, or pile-on response to an Islamic polemicist provocateur. Mark Dask looks like a combination of both.

  43. says

    For all those who think Mark Dask should have been cut some kind of break, I refer you to Robert Spencer’s own April 7th 5:34 A.M. post here on this thread which supports completely Jan’s detailed and well thought out 4:22 A.M post. Enough said except to Rich I’d like to say that, oh yes, I certainly keep my mouth shut when you’re around. Yep, you put the fear of God in me. Oh brother.

  44. says

    Actually, Christians say “Peace be with you.” Muslims say “Peace be upon you.” It isn’t the same thing, either in English or in Arabic.

    Cordially
    Robert Spencer

  45. says

    Mark Dask = Mike Cee = Ole Fartling

    see 4-6 7:30 post.

    At first I thought the congratulatory and supportive commentary amongst them was motivated from their anti-Christian, gay, left on everything except right on islam rarefied political sphere. But upon seeing “Mike Cee’s” slip, aka Ole Fartling which he made on his 7:30 post, we can see how easy it is to post under several names in an effort to strengthen what are usualy secondary agendas acting as parasites sucking the energy away form the important work to be done here at JW.
    Early on, heavy weight Wellington made mince meat of this troll, unfortunately the reconfigured, just curious, wanting to learn, open for reasonable troll evidently has suckerd many into eating mouthfulls of his bs.

  46. says

    Good riddance to bad rubbish! ..darkmask is gone!

    It writes:

    “I love the fact that you got the spoonerism – markdask – darkmask. No I am not satan – I represent yin and yang – the sad and happy faces of the universal clown” …

    Yin and yang? Sad and happy? No, you represent bull & shit …

    Glad you’re gone, you evil troll.

  47. says

    If Dask is a Muslim troll, he’s a Machiavellian one. He said

    I have known many Jews in my 54 year life and I have never known an intolerant jew in that time. Similarly I have known Jainists, Sikhs, Buddhists, Hindus, Christians of many flavours, and we all live together almost entirely harmoniously. Only Islam is violently opposed to communal living.

    That seems an odd thing for a Muslim troll to say. Based on other comments of his here, I thought he was just someone with some leftist and atheist prejudices.

  48. says

    Oookay… a simple post by Spencer wishing Jewish members well on their holy day has garnered 129 comments as of now. Now why would that be, I wonder ….? Let’s see.

    Gives the thumbs up to the man on the deck of the boat to pull the cable to my scuba-geared self upward to the top of the comments, whence I may submerge and immerse myself in the comments more slowly, at a reading rate.

  49. says

    Next Year in Jerusalem!

    I don’t know why some people have such an issue admitting that Jerusalem belongs to Israel/Israelis. Jerusalem is the capital of Israel! It can be denied, but it doesn’t make it any less a fact, or any less true. When Jerusalem was occupied by Islam they didn’t seem to respect the city or believe it was very special- it was just another conquered city. No Arab leaders visited or made pilgrimages to Jerusalem, it was never made the capital of any Arab land. Today, like thousands of years ago, Jerusalem is once again the capital of Israel!

    Also, I find it amusing and disturbing when the term ‘chosen people’ is somehow likened to a superior race. Do some research- this is not at all what is meant by the term chosen. Being chosen is not about arrogance, but rather humility. We were chosen to be close to G-d and to share his message with the world- which is exactly what Jews have done and continue to do today. It is not about elitism, it is all about ethics, values and morals.

    On a lighter note, Happy Passover/Easter to all!

  50. says

    Well, when I first dove in out of curiosity, and sank straight down 129 leagues (or comments) beneath the sea in order to deposit my own comment announcing I would then resurface in order to dive back down at a slower rate to read through more carefully, I figured there was a troublemaker generating much of the commentage (if I may coin a term); and so I was right.

    Along the way, on my way to the depths below the initial 129 to a bathymetric reading of 141 of another unusually long comments thread, I found many interesting and educational comments — none, of course, penned by “Mark Dask”; which has been my usual experience when imps like him drop into a comments section on JW. Soon enough, in such all-too familiar circumstances over the years on comments sections at JW where an imp has intruded, I find myself completely ignoring what the imp himself writes (since it’s always approximately the same, with perhaps a few perverse variations that may be of interest to the amateur psychiatrist), and just rather sit back and enjoy the usually incisive and well-written ripostes from others here to his (as Champ put it so well) “bull & shit”.

  51. says

    The Inquisition was quite rational. In the medieval period heresy was looked upon as something which could damage not only the individual soul but also society at large and even the entire state. Moreover, as the medieval and early modern Western mind saw things, it was far better to punish the body if any chance of redeeming the soul by doing such might occur. I would assure anyone that individuals like Pope Innocent III, who was instrumental in putting things into motion which eventually led to the original Inquisition in the 13th century, and King Ferdinand of Aragon and Queen Isabella of Castile (the latter two being ultimately responsible for the institution of the Spanish Inquisition in 1480) were highly rational human beings. That they had a different mindset from that of the modern mind or even that they were wrong does not make them irrational. If one is going to travel back into the past, it is best to take this journey as unencumbered as possible with one’s own set of priorities.

    LemonLime has been eminently correct here in characterizing the Spanish Inquisition as rational, though by no means does this mean that I think the Inquistion was not capable of error. Being rational and being right are often two very different things. Aristotle, possessed of about as brilliant a mind as ever possessed by anyone, was as rational as one could be but he was wrong when he supposed that the reason why worms appear after it rains is because the rain turns into worms. Really, I am often chagrined by how little logic and proper thinking exist in this modern world in which we live. In some respects mankind has actually gone backwards.

  52. says

    PETER, interesting details you managed to dredge up. The more I learn of this Mark Dask character, the more I can imagine him getting along famously in a soirée with Bono, Julian Assange, Sean Penn, and… perhaps Eric Allen Bell.

  53. says

    Dask is not a Muslim. If you look at Dask’s tweets, and the list of people he’s following through Twitter, and his work on Wikipedia, there’s no indication whatsoever of any connection to Islam, Muslims, or Muslim organizations. He’s under the influence of some cliches about religion and atheism, and he’s a bit provocative and argumentative. That’s it.

  54. says

    As I’ve said before, Wikipedia isn’t bad if you want to look up the mating habits of the platypus, or perhaps the full name of the 19th-century “mad king” of Bavaria, Ludwig II); but beyond that, for anything remotely touching on sociopolitical issues, it’s unreliable except as fodder for Leftish sophistry and agitprop.

    Further Reading:

    Primary Sources and why Wikipedia should be renamed “Pseudopedia”

    Primary Sources and Pseudopedia revisited

    Recyclopedia: Factoids in the Blogospheric Echo Chamber

  55. says

    I certainly wouldn’t advocate reviving in our time the Spanish Inquisition as it was, lock, stock (pun intended) and barrell. Albigensians and Cathars are not ramming planes into our buildings, blowing up our trains and planes and planning additional terrors and horrors throughout the West, and the Rest of the world.

    Interesting fact: Apparently, in its 350 years in existence, that Catholic institution sentenced approximately 3,000 people to death (contrary to the myth, they didn’t do the executing, but handed the accused over to the secular authorities).

    So, on one sunny day (with about a decade of planning), 19 Muslims managed to do what took the Spanish Inquisition 350 years to do.

    My point is two-fold:

    1) the alacrity with which modern Westerners swallow and regurgitate givens about what is “shameful” about ourselves (our list of “shame” is long, whereas Muslims apparently have nothing at all to be ashamed of in their history) is a cultural and psychological phenomenon directly related to the obstinant myopia of PC MC that is now keeping us half-asleep concerning the metastasizing danger of Muslims

    2) Muslim infiltration is a metastasizing problem with deadly consequences, and the longer we wait to deal with it, the messier, costlier and bloodier will be the results. The forensic methodology of the Spanish Inquisition in this regard would be useful — though we don’t have to adopt it to a tee (i.e., our aim would not be to ferret out and punish “Christian heresy”, but rather that which defines Islam: the deadly sedition against all non-Islamic polities).

  56. says

    I didn’t ban Dask. He was being so magnificently exposed, there didn’t seem to be any need for me to do so. He just stopped coming around. Although Weddle may be Dask indeed.

    Cordially
    Robert Spencer

  57. says

    Almost by accident, as I was browsing from among my copious bookmarks, I came across a link to a long discussion in a Jihad Watch comments thread back from 2009, a thread amounting to 138 comments — the length caused by yet another troll, one “Styrer”.

    Someone should put together a glossy coffee-table book of “Jihad Watch Trolls Over the Years” — there’s certainly enough material for one.

    http://www.jihadwatch.org/2009/10/uk-muslim-protesters-threaten-geert-wilders-well-have-his-head.html

  58. says

    I hardly know where to begin except to say that you have failed miserably in your first post here at JW. For instance, where in the hell did you ever get the idea that JW is a “particularly Jewish thing?” Furthermore, your mentioning of “Evangelical crazies of America” types you as either a troll or a highly clueless moral equivalizer. Oh yes, Presbyterian suicide bombers are all over the place; Catholics taking hostages a regular event; and Baptists threatening death for criticizing or mocking their religion an everyday occurrence. Get real.

    Be advised. Regular commenters here at JW are very sophisticated and informed. You will make no headway here at all if you are either ignorant or posing as someone you aren’t. Right now you’ve flunked your first quiz. Care to proceed or do you want to drop the course?

  59. says

    It’s your first time here.
    And to what or whom do we owe your malevolent presence to?
    You were ASSIGNED here by your Lefty Organizers to find something to ATTACK Robert on and YOU FAILED!
    You are a FAILED TROLL!They’ll still pay you though.
    Easter is not until Sunday.
    Passover started at sundown.
    Robert is Christian, and he KNOWS Easter is Sunday.
    It isn’t Easter until 1 second after midnite tomorrow

  60. says

    I don’t often comment here, but I want to speak in defense of Mark Dask. The man is very obviously not a useful idiot or a troll. He is simply expressing what a lot of us here at Jihad Watch believe — that Islamic supremacism is the main threat, but many evangelical Christians in America, and even certain Jews in Israel, also represent a menace to humane liberal civilizational ideals. And I personally take offense to the attacks that were made on him for merely daring to recognize the humanity of the Palestinians and their children. Yes, they’ve been corrupted almost beyond repair — yes, their influence in world affairs is baneful, they’re raised on genocidal bloodlust, on and on. But they are human and it’s not good to see them suffer house demolitions, air-raids, accidental civilian deaths etc. I hold them responsible for the lion’s share of the conflict but expressing sympathy for them should not be beyond the pale. It is against the spirit of Jihad Watch to categorically deny the human suffering of anybody, and it sucks to see so many of you just acting like Palestinian pain counts for nothing.

    Welcome Mr. Dask. This place is not a Jewish or Christian sectarian site, it is open to everybody who seeks to defend human rights against the jihad, including atheists, Muslims of conscience, and anyone else. Robert Spencer is a tireless voice for real, universal human rights and values. Don’t let the chauvinism, bigotry and knee-jerk paranoia of some of the commenters around here make you give up on Jihad Watch. This place is indispensable.

  61. says

    Mark Dask, welcome to Jihad Watch, from one of the resident “Evangelical Crazies”. Don’t worry, I don’t take offense, for people far closer to me have called me much, much worse. I suppose traeh and a few others have hashed out that we’re actually a pretty diverse lot here.

    BTW, not all of us who identify as Evangelical (the Gospel, or evangellion, rather than the right organization and channel, is God’s instrument to save people) are necessarily uncritical supporters of modern Israel. Among Confessional Reformed (“Calvinist”) people such as myself, for example, the chosen people of God are found gathered about God’s Anointed Messiah (Jesus Christ) rather than in a piece of Mediterranean real estate. We tend to support Israel because it is a country with a far better record of respecting minority rights than any of its neighbors; and can’t help respecting how it has made no-questions-asked citizens out of so many descendants of Iraq, the Maghreb, Yemen, Egypt, and Syria while Arabic-speaking Muslims from between the Jordan and the Med remain stateless down to the fourth and even fifth generations in their countries of first asylum. And if we are respectful to Jews elsewhere, let us say that we recognize that their position vis-a-vis Christians is very unique compared to adherents of other non-Christian religions (with whom else, for example, do we share four-fifths of our sacred Scripture?).

    Now, I’ve learned a lot since coming here, and I’ve learned much of it from people who come from a direction that differs from my own. I hope you do the same. Robert, our Blog Host, is a very gracious and patient person, as well as learned.

  62. says

    Mark
    I have no idea why you would think Jihadwatch is a particularly Jewish thing. I’m the only resident Pagan here myself it seems. Happy ostara to you. Your post comes across as extremely negative, everybody counts who speaks out against the evil ideology known as islam that is actively seeking to take over the world. I have my issues with christains,just not on this forum though. Here we are united against the greatest evil of our time. If you do some research you will find that the Palestinian grievances are all freshly minted. There never was a state of Palestine, nor were there ever a Palestinian people until Arafat & co made them up in 1967 for political purposes. http://youtu.be/TRRq82u5C0E
    The history of Israel goes back thousands of years before the master of lies was born. You say Israel is no angel. Can you tell me how many Israeli rockets are fired into Gaza and the West bank to deliberately target civilians day after long day? Here’s a clip showing what the Palestinians think of their children: http://youtu.be/NYh4IVB0jJo
    The Israelis have made concession after concession since 1948. How many concessions have the ficticious palestinians made? Absolutely none.
    I think that maybe you need to study islam a little more before you come on this channel making sweeping generalisations about a subject whose surface you have merely brushed upon. Look up Pat Condell on youtube. You could learn a lot from him for starters. Also you might like to consider: http://britishfreedom.org/ where you may find some of my posts/comments. BTW, I have also witnessed firsthand Irish tribalism and barbarity, although this is not the issue here.

  63. says

    You call me miserable – I am who I say I am – I am no troll – I seek only to better understand – so why do you feel the need to denigrate me with terms like “miserable”.

    Wellington did no such thing. You’re English reading comprehension is either way below room temperature, or you are being overly sensitive.

    Fail #2.

    But please stay onboard with us, Mark; open your mind, and pay attention. You’ll get the very best education on Islam right here on JW.

  64. says

    No, you weren’t sufficiently respectful. You were, however, sufficiently deceptive. Believe me, you are fooling no one here at JW.

    Palestinian children (assuming here that the term “Palestinian” should be used to designate Arabs living in the area which is now called the West Bank and Gaza) could have been leading productive, model lives from 1948 onwards, and in their own independent state, but Muslim hate denied any possible Jewish state (the dar-al-Islam and dar-al-harb nonsense once again coming to the fore to disallow complete human dignity) and this hate continues to this day and has been the source of the tragedy and useless wasting of lives, compliments of the Muslim mind-set which thinks of Jews and all other Muslims as inferiors in this world and who (such human beings) are never to be accorded equality and be extended to them a true Golden Rule (shame on Islam for all eternity for setting up a Jim Crow system based on belief—you either understand what I mean here or you don’t; either way you’re deficient).

    Look, I know you are a deceiver. Give up the stupid game. I’m done here for now. I have history to read and beer to drink. I will let other capable, regular commenters here at JW take you on if they so wish. I suspect they will.

  65. says

    If you’re so “concerned” about “Palestinian Children”,LECTURE their parents NOT to BREED GENOCIDAL HATE-FILLED MURDERERS.
    And if you really gave a damn about children,you would tell your “Palestinians” to STOP ATTACKING ISRAELI CHILDREN and STOP HIDING AMONG WOMEN & CHILDREN!
    Now STOP acting like the LEFTY FOOL you are and go back to the LEFTY Blogosphere were you’ll be more welcome with your nonsense.

  66. says

    The Western alphabet? It came from the Egyptian alphabetic portion of its Hieroglyphic writing system. The Phoenicians isolated the alphabetic portion of this and thus produced the world’s first alphabetic orthography. Then the Greeks adapted the Phoenician alphabet to its own magnificnet language. Following that, the Romans adapted the Greek alphabet to their own impressive language and created the Roman alphabet. The final form of the Roman alphabet, that has been adopted throughout the West, was developed during the Carolingina Renaissance and is called Carolingian miniscule.

    But I don’t think you care about all this. No, I don’t. What I think you are up to is to muddy the waters, to extend to the Muslim world far more achievements than it deserves and, by extension, to pull down Western Civilization as much, in your own limited way, that you can. You don’t fool me and you won’t fool many others here at JW. Be gone.

  67. says

    Ooh and boneshack – I have a degree in English literature from Keele university in the UK – so somebody likes my English :)

    Good for you. You want a Gold Star for having a degree in English Lit from some podunk university?

    Why are you harping on the arabs and “algebra”? They (the arabs) did not invent it.

    Read this masterful piece from the Norwegian scholar Fjordman:

    Fjorman: A History of Algebra

    ::

    Wellington – did you just say that the western alphebate originated with the Egyptans? Arabs – my point ecactly.

    Egyptians = Arabs? Really? I think you ought to request a refund from Keele University for that bogus degree. Clearly, history was part of your curriculum.

    Good-bye, and be gone!

  68. says

    Mark:

    You state that you have a degree in English literature. Therefore I would expect you to be proficient in the English language. Please work on your spelling (“alphabet”, “exactly”, “want to”, “atheist”, “Arabs”,
    “University”, “Egyptians”).

    Unfortunately, you seem to know very little about Islam and its fundamental nature; it is a belief system of tyranny and intolerance incorporating Sharia Law, and it is in this respect the antithesis of the other World Religions. In this, you share the same faulty reasoning as many other Liberals (and many Conservatives) who have a problem with moral equivalence, believing that all religions are rife with intolerance, they all share unsavory supremacist teachings, thay all attempt to impose their beliefs on “the others”, and so forth. I suggest you read Robert Spencer’s several leasrned books on Islam, as well as the writings of Bat Ye’or, Pamella Geller, Brigitte Gabriel, Raymond Ibrahim, and others.

    I also suggest you read “America Alone” and “After America” by Mark Steyn; he predicted the rapid Islamization of Europe in 2006, and he also warned against the same plague starting to infest the United States.

    I urge you to read the following article about Robert Spencer’s interview with Nicolai Sennels; it will give you a good idea as to how Islam makes moral and intellectual cripples out of its members, and why it is unique among the world’s major religions in this respect.

    Good luck on “getting up to speed” on Islam…

    http://www.jihadwatch.org/2012/04/robert-spencer-interviews-nicolai-sennels-muslims-are-taught-to-be-aggressive-insecure-irresponsible.html#comments

  69. says

    “Mark Dask” (Dark Mask) wrote, among reams of other verbiage:

    But I did not realise that Jihadwatch is a particularly Jewish thing.
    ………………………….

    And it isn’t. How did a wish for Passover lead you to believe it was? of course, there are many Jewish contributors, readers, and posters here, but Jihad Watch is not a “particularly Jewish thing”.

    More:

    so also you should accept that this aint a strictly Jewish concern. Where do you say “happy Easter”?
    ………………………….

    Right here:

    “Happy Easter!”

    http://www.jihadwatch.org/2012/04/happy-easter-2.html

    Of course, this is assuming that the above were legitimate queries, rather than nasty hints of antisemitism…

    More:

    Do Christians not count in the equation against arab extremism? Then I must ask you – do Palestinians’grievances not count either? Is Israel as blameless as the Evangelical crazies of America?
    ………………………….

    Where to start? “Mark Dask” has here gone from a supposed concern over inclusion at JW for Christian holidays to slamming Israel and the “Evangelical crazies of America”, all while touting the “grievances of Palestinians”-all very odd for someone who–supposedly”believes that “Islam affects my world as badly as it does yours”.

    More:

    Just remember, on this day you call sacred, Palestinians have children also, and no child wears the guilt of the parent…
    ………………………….

    Perhaps you need to take that up with “Palestinian” parents, who are force-feeding their children hatred of Infidels, particularly of Jews.

    In addition, it is often Jews who have concern for Muslim children, whereas Muslims are teaching their children that the greatest thing is for them to die as a “Martyr” in suicide bombings.

    More:

    In my very meagre understanding of Judaism – and can we agree here that Jesus – as far as he ever existed – was a Jew – said “let he who has not sinned cast the first stone”. So like it was okay some time in Jewish history to stone women? Where did Mohammed get that practice from?
    ………………………….

    Jews haven’t stoned anyone to death in well over a thousand years. In fact, the “Prophet” Muhammed *revived* the grim practice of stoning.

    From the Hadith:

    Narrated ‘Abdullah bin Umar:

    The Jews brought to the Prophet a man and a woman from among them who had committed illegal sexual intercourse.

    The Prophet said to them [the Jews], “How do you usually punish the one amongst you who has committed illegal sexual intercourse?” They replied, “We blacken their faces with coal and beat them,” He said, “Don’t you find the order of Ar-Rajm (i.e. stoning to death) in the Torah?” They replied, “We do not find anything in it.”

    ‘Abdullah bin Salam (after hearing this conversation) said to them. “You have told a lie! Bring here the Torah and recite it if you are truthful.” (So the Jews brought the Torah). And the religious teacher who was teaching it to them, put his hand over the Verse of Ar-Rajm and started reading what was written above and below the place hidden with his hand, but he did not read the Verse of Ar-Rajm.

    ‘Abdullah bin Salam removed his ( i.e. the teacher’s) hand from the Verse of Ar-Rajm and said, “What is this?” So when the Jews saw that Verse, they said, “This is the Verse of Ar-Rajm.”

    So the Prophet ordered the two adulterers to be stoned to death, and they were stoned to death near the place where biers used to be placed near the Mosque.

    I saw her companion (i.e. the adulterer) bowing over her so as to protect her from the stones.

    Bukhari, Volume 6, Book 60, Number 79

    And Muslims are the *only* people calling for stoning today.

    There are victims on death row in Iran under sentence of stoning, coupled have been stoned to death in Afghanistan and Pakistan, and a little 13-year-old *rape victim* was stoned to death recently in Somalia.

    More:

    Wellington – did you just say that the western alphebate (sic) originated with the Egyptans? (sic) Arabs – my point ecactly (sic).
    ………………………….

    “Arabs” had nothing whatsoever to do with the development of Egyptian hieroglyphics. Arabs had no presence in Egypt at all until the invasion of the Muslim hordes in the 7th century CE.

    More:

    But consider – will you extinguish Muslim intolerance by war alone? Or do you accept the 21st century, RATIONAL, approach? Teach the children – breed the htred out of these people. It is working in Northern Ireland and Bosnia. Do we seriously benefit as a species by hating Palestinian children?
    ………………………….

    Who here ‘hates Palestinian children’? No one here said anything like that. Also, you claim that “breed[ing] the htred (sic) out of these people” is “working” in Bosnia is grimly hilarious. Bosnia”far from becoming more “moderate”, is fast Islamizing.

    “Radio Vatikan on Bosnia and the ethnic cleansing of Catholics”

    http://www.jihadwatch.org/2012/02/radio-vatikan-bosnia-the-ethnic.html“Bosnia moving toward Sharia law”

    “Bosnia moving toward Sharia law”

    http://www.jihadwatch.org/2011/12/bosnia-moving-toward-sharia-law.html

    There are many, many similar stories.

    More:

    Let me remind everyone – I am an athiest Irishman of 54 years age. I have never known an angry Jew – until I came on this site. Chill out ppl – I am not a jihadist – I just wanna know – do any of you perceive any possibility of peace beyond total obliteration?
    ………………………….

    This is grotesque projection on your part. No one here is advocating the “total obliteration” of Muslims”anymore than someone seventy-five years ago concerned over the rise of Nazism would perforce be advocating the “total obliteration” of Germans.

    More:

    Dumbledoresarmy – how dare you suggest that the Toulouse tragedy was entirely Jewish versus Muslim. It may have been the intention of that monster to offend Judaism specifically, but do you not accept that the entire world was offended by this outrage – irrespective of religion? Merah offended ALL precepts of decency – and religion in the matter is irrelevant.
    ………………………….

    Firstly, Mohammed Merah acted very much in the name of Islam both in his waging of violent Jihad and in his choice of victims.

    As for the claim that “the entire world was offended by this outrage – irrespective of religion”, this is simply false.

    Many Muslims consider the vile child killer Merah to be a great hero:

    “Muslims try to leave flowers on jihad mass-murderer Muhammad Merah’s doorstep”

    http://www.jihadwatch.org/2012/03/muslims-try-to-leave-flowers-on-jihad-mass-murderer-muhammad-merahs-doorstep.html

    “Algerian Muslim cleric misunderstands Islam, defends jihadist Jew-killer Merah”

    http://www.jihadwatch.org/2012/04/algerian-muslim-cleric-misunderstands-islam-defends-jihadist-jew-killer-merah.html

    More than 3000 Alahu-Akbaring Muslims came out for this Jihadist’s funeral. Again, there are many more of these grim stories.

    More:

    Peace be upon you.
    ………………………….

    Just something that the average Anti-Jihad Irish atheist says on a regular basis…sarc/off

  70. says

    “and even perhaps the view expressed by exsgtbrown above, who chooses to regard all Palestinian children as destined to slaughter jews. That opinion is so monstrous

    It’s not opinion..It’s fact…

  71. says

    Let me just say that you got a rough start here on JW. Wellington should have known better, usually he does, than to attack your person instead of your arguments.

    As fighters for freedom of expression every argument should be allowed here. JW is not a religious community but most of the regular commentators are Christians, and they are rather sensitive to criticism of their religious beliefs. However, Wellington is not a theist but rather deist or agnostic like myself. All religions should of course be criticized, as all irrational beliefs should, but the focus here is the danger Islam pose to all other civilizations and has done from even before its foundation as an independent religion in the eleventh century.

    In his comment boneshack made the same reference to the history of algebra as I planned to do, to document that you are misinformed about history and especially about the contributions made by Muslim scholars to science, philosophy, logic, algebra or geometry. The truth is that hardly none of them were noteworthy, except for a few made by recent Christian (mostly Assyrian) converts to Islam.

    Read Fjordman’s well documented article – also the one about history of science – closely, and you will realize just how mistaken you are.

    I believe that you are not a deceiver but rather someone who has been deceived by the wast amount of anti-Zionism, anti-Israeli propaganda and Jew hatred combined with pro-Palestinian and Islamic whitewashing propaganda which has flooded Europe since the political, economic and cultural alliance with the Arabs created in the wake of the Oil Jihad in 1973 – a project officially named “EURABIA” in French and British publications from 1975.

    For a closer analysis of this history I would rcommend the book “Eurabia – The Euro-Arab Axis” (2005/6) by the eminent historian and scholar about Islamic history – Bat Ye’or. The book will reveal just how and why the Europeans have been decieved and who is responsible for the deception.

    Wellington is dead right on one thing: The regular commentators are very knowledgeable about Islam, Islamic theology and history. It is almost impossible to fool them. Believe me, I have tried. 😉

    So welcome, it is always nice and a challenge to have new views presented for discussion.

  72. says

    The correct spelling is “Fjordman”. And your crude obscenity is unbecoming an alleged scholar.

    “Algebra” is derived from two Arabic words meaning “The Cipher”. Islam is eminently anti-intellectual; therefore those few Arab intellectuals were rare exceptions to the rule. There are about 15 million Jews in the world, yet they have contributed immeasurasbly to the sciences, mathematics, medicine, and science and technology in general, far dwarfing the accomplishments of some 1.3 billion Muslims.

    Islam is an Inshallah, fatalistic belief system which discourages learning and original thinking, and Muslim scholars will inform Muslims that all Human learning is encompassed by the Qur’an, and they look with grat suspicion on free inquiry…

    Islam is expert in claiming to be the center of all knowledge, and freely claims that all scientific discoveries are either of Islamic origin or are somehow ensconced in the Islamic religious texts…

  73. says

    Boneshack – masterful bullshit on your part…

    I’m so glad to know the truth eludes you, and that you did not read the linked article.

    And who the hell is Fjor[d]man? I will have to look up this master. What university – what century – what discipline – any information you can provide me will help me to read up on this master(bator).

    Nice insult. But we here have done our homework.

    I suggest you do the same.

  74. says

    Happy Easter fellows of JW.

    I thought Wellington was a female – when did the gender change took place?

    MD – “And who the hell is Fjorman? I will have to look up this master. What university – what century – what discipline – any information you can provide me will help me to read up on this master(bator).”

    You stated you have a degree in Eng. Lit. from a Uni in the UK. You appear to be an internet user. You know the most famous search engine, Google. So, what is your problem Mark? Why are you provoking people with abusive use of the language?

    In general I can agree to you that the Pali children are like any other children, however, if you allow me the correction “the Pali children should be like any other children”.

    The problem is in the difference between the words “are” – which they not, and “should be”. If they were like other children, I think we will all support them.

    These children are taught to hate infidels, that includes me, Wellington, you and whoever is around to tell them they should stop hating the Jews.

    You said you are Irish – didn’t the Pali’s supply weapons to the Irish against the British in 60s and 70s? Do you have Pali friends that you trust? I am a little curious to figure your angle of thoughts.

    Peace.

  75. says

    Egyptian=Arab???

    Mmhhh….

    1. Who are the Coptic Christians and what is their history?

    Raymond Ibrahim:

    The Copts are the indigenous inhabitants of Egypt, before the Arab/Muslim invasion around 641 A.D.. The the word “Copt” simply means “Egyptian”; however, because all Egyptians were Christian in the 7th century”Egypt was a major Christian center, so much so that Alexandria vied with Rome over ecclesiastical leadership””Copt” also became synonymous with “Christian.” In short, the word Copt is similar to the word Jew: both words convey a people and a religion. Tradition teaches that St. Mark, author of the Gospel of the same name, proselytized the pagan Egyptians of the 1st century; by approximately the 3rd century, Christianity was the dominant religion; and by the 7th century when Islam burst into Egypt, Christianity was THE religion.

    2. When did persecution of the Copts begin and why?

    Raymond Ibrahim:

    Muslim persecution of the Copts begins with the Islamic invasion. It is true that, at the time, the Copts were already under nearly a decade of persecution by the Byzantine Empire over doctrinal disputes. However, with Islam’s entry, the persecution took on a different shape, and grew steadily worse, until the modern era and the age of colonialism. At first, and because the Copts were the majority people of Egypt, they were merely deemed a subject race, to be heavily taxed and kept in line by their Muslim overlords. Over the years, however, their subject status came to be codified in what is seen as Islam’s divine and immutable law, or Sharia.

    :>

  76. says

    I just wanna know – do any of you perceive any possibility of peace beyond total obliteration?

    Obliteration of what? Western society?

    The onslaught of the muslim, islamic creed (deen) will bring upon all mankind a darkness not seen since the emergence of man 5m years ago.

    Yeah, but I do have a solution. But you, being a Leftard, will not like my idea.

  77. says

    Certainly there should be reeducation. Lots of people do that through missionary work and NGO influence with modernity and neat toys that the poor ignorants have never seen.

    Do you know what they do to missionaries now?

  78. says

    You have repeatedly asked, rhetorically I assume, why we ‘hate’ muslim children residing in the stateless region known as Palestine. Who among us has expressed hatred for the poor, pitiful, future jihadists attending Hamas-sponsored kindergarten classes in the perpetual refugee camps of Palestine? Who among us has advocated the total annihilation of these innocent babes?

    We do not ‘hate’ muslims; we hate islam. If we could stroll into this hell on earth and forcibly impose re-education programs on the entire population, it would do no good unless we shut down all the mosques and locked up the malevolent imams, because islam is the source of their corruption. The poor, pitiful, perpetual refugees squatting in Palestinian refugee camps where their every need is supplied by the U.N. have so little to do, so little to worry about, that the men manage four wifes and countless spawn. When they aren’t engaged in the obscene act of procreating more refugees, they congregate to lament their pathetic plight and plot to destroy Israel and the Jewish people, convinced that their demise would miraculously solve all of their self-inflicted problems.

    Where are the social engineers who have been harping on population control for thirty years when you need them? They have convinced Western people to stop having babies in order to save the planet, yet these worthless savages reproduce like rats and nobody says a word. I have not once ounce of compassion or sympathy for these deranged, dysfunctional, utterly evil people. They are a scourge worse than the plague and it would be a blessing if they were all sterile.

    Yes, it is regrettable that they teach their children to hate and encourage them to become ‘martyrs’ for allah, but that’s what they do and the civilized world continues to provide them with food, medicine, and money for weapons and bombs. They do not want ‘peace’ with Israel; they want to destroy Israel and annihilate the Jews. They have been plainly stating their intentions for over sixty years; different terrorists, same message. How could anyone support the genocidal ambitions of the muslim barbarians?

  79. says

    Well Said – Ole Hartling.

    I really think some people have been a bit rough with their comments on Mark Dask’s posts.

    Though i dissagree with some of his comments, i think JW readers need to be more gracious and give people more time to understand the issues of jihad.

    Our job is educate and persuade nicely, attacking people (with text) only pushes them away and is detrimental to the cause of JW.

    Let me just say that you got a rough start here on JW. Wellington should have known better, usually he does, than to attack your person instead of your arguments.

    As fighters for freedom of expression every argument should be allowed here. JW is not a religious community but most of the regular commentators are Christians, and they are rather sensitive to criticism of their religious beliefs. However, Wellington is not a theist but rather deist or agnostic like myself. All religions should of course be criticized, as all irrational beliefs should, but the focus here is the danger Islam pose to all other civilizations and has done from even before its foundation as an independent religion in the eleventh century.

    In his comment boneshack made the same reference to the history of algebra as I planned to do, to document that you are misinformed about history and especially about the contributions made by Muslim scholars to science, philosophy, logic, algebra or geometry. The truth is that hardly none of them were noteworthy, except for a few made by recent Christian (mostly Assyrian) converts to Islam.

    Read Fjordman’s well documented article – also the one about history of science – closely, and you will realize just how mistaken you are.

    I believe that you are not a deceiver but rather someone who has been deceived by the wast amount of anti-Zionism, anti-Israeli propaganda and Jew hatred combined with pro-Palestinian and Islamic whitewashing propaganda which has flooded Europe since the political, economic and cultural alliance with the Arabs created in the wake of the Oil Jihad in 1973 – a project officially named “EURABIA” in French and British publications from 1975.

    For a closer analysis of this history I would rcommend the book “Eurabia – The Euro-Arab Axis” (2005/6) by the eminent historian and scholar about Islamic history – Bat Ye’or. The book will reveal just how and why the Europeans have been decieved and who is responsible for the deception.

    Wellington is dead right on one thing: The regular commentators are very knowledgeable about Islam, Islamic theology and history. It is almost impossible to fool them. Believe me, I have tried. 😉

    So welcome, it is always nice and a challenge to have new views presented for discussion.

  80. says

    First, welcome.

    Second, why the need for profanity?

    Third, the reason Robert can call us and we can call ourselves jihadwatchers is that we know what to look for. To that end, we read. We read and read and read and watch video and engage. We surf boards, we listen at coffee shops. We know what cars are parked where.

    We fan out at the malls, the universities, the government centers, the elementary schools and grocery stores, and the bigger, sexier places that you have to get on a plane, as Robert does at great expense, to confront those beguiled and beguiling of Islam, in public, with cameras.

    We educate. We are sad that we cannot often use our own names, and for that, I apologize, but we have families and many of us live very near the heart of several beasts.

    I am glad you say where you went to school and where you live. I hope you and your family are well and not living in one of cherished England’s no-go enclaves.

    But it now makes it clear: Just because Egyptians are brown, does not make them ethnic Arabs. The actual Egyptians, as if blood or genetics matters at all, which it doesn’t, are more likely to be the Copts, of course, and Greeks, many many Greeks, than the Muslim Arabs. Of course, since no Muslim woman may marry a non-Muslim man, and the children are Muslim, without discussion, I can see how certain people in certain circumstances might conflate the two.

    About those circumstances. Post-war second-gen boomer raised to walk on eggshells so that all of Europe might “get on well.” Schools omit and whitewash and you have four whole television stations, all run by the same state. Even Russia has more news and media options. Despite the desperately frightening moral equivalency our treasured brothers the Brits have shown by inviting such an anachronistic population that less than three hundreds years ago were sharpening their scimitars on the steps of their cathedrals and looking for that last chance to push north and finally gain Dar al Harb, and, after wiping the blood of on the front lawns in Austria had to pick up their prayer mats and go home, vowed to just keep taking people as they wished by force from the ocean and on the shores of the Mediterranian (See Mozart, Wolfgang Amadeus “The Abduction from the Seraglio,” even he knew the danger and scourge of the centuries of the million European citizens snatched into slavery and sexual servitude).

    Churchill knew this. So did John Adams, John Quincy Adams, Washington, Jefferson, and many others, including you.

    But I hope you can begin to separate that we do not favor peoples because of race or ethnicity. I’m sorry that this has been the paradigm in U.K. and much of Europe, but we judge cultures and groups on their actions, not their ethnicity or race or even whether they were historically good people or what have you.

    We think globally: what is it that will elevate the human race more? What ideologies are worth lauding? Who will have the strength and courage to condemn those which are not worthy of laud. What can we do to learn history and language and art and architecture and military history and the origins of science and my God, how sorry I am that these things are not available to you.

    Feel free to stay, of course, but please dial it back. Read, ask questions, if people offer you articles, it is not spam, and it is often not a quick read. You are looking for weapons, no? What you entered with was worse than an empty quiver. It was blowdarts poisoned on the wrong end.

    Good luck, and happy Easter anyway, because what’s wrong with having a great day?

  81. says

    On the surface, your reasoning seems quite logical. There is one major problem, however: The spiritual and cultural leaders of Islam will not tolerate their children being taught anything but what Muhammad and the Qur’an and the Hadiths explicitly posit. It is as fruitless to try to revamp Islam as it was to get Nazism and Communism to change their spots. It MUST be defeated or contained…

    As you may in some small way realise, it is haram to criticise any aspects of Islam or its prophet, and any Muslim attempting to do so will be in danger of his or her life. As you should realise, it is fruitless to reason with Islamic scholars, since they regard all non-Muslims as inferior beings, useful only as tools to be used to spread Islam, to later be dominated and treated as second-class beings, with Jews being singled out for annihilation. Christians and all other religious believers, as well as all atheists and agnostics, are only slightly higher on the scale of humanity.

    It is quite naive to believe that reason and conciliation will change devout Muslims. The sad truth is that resolute resistance to and education of all non-Muslims is the only solution, in the near future.

    The lives of all Muslims are strictly circumcised, and those attempting to change Islam or to apostatise put their lives at great risk.

  82. says

    “Euskalherria – apologies for my spelling. I am dyslexic – does that diminish me in your mind? Try to focus on my meaning – and not nitpick my keyboard skills.”

    Right.

    A dyslexic English Lit. graduate who doesn’t know how to use spell check and makes crude sexual reference jokes.

    More like an obfuscating, madrassa student who expects all of the JW users to be as obtuse as himself.

    I’m sure the Greeks are fairly tired of hearing their history being usurped by Arabs, as well as the Romans and the Naqadas who were the indigenous people of North Africa from the neolithic period to the dynastic period. This is proven through phenetic affinity, dental anthropology, and root morphology all of which are far more reliable methods than “because some guy wrote a book that claims Arabs were Egyptian.”

    Similar scientific methods, as well as records, provide ample evidence that Arabs did not invent algebra either. English borrows many words from other languages. As an alleged English Lit. graduate you very well should be aware of it. Borrowing words does not denote ownership. Diophantus ring any bells, mohammad? He was not Arab.

    No one is biting and everyone sees through your smoke screen, mohammad.

    How arrogant are the thugs of islam who cannot and will not admit defeat (or being caught for what they are)and continue to march headlong into the abyss all the while claiming their own victory.

  83. says

    Mark Dask, the argument here of religion versus non-religion has been had many times. In a nutshell, the conclusion I have always seen emerge from a lot of hashing things out back and forth is that when you look at a wide range of facts, irreligion is not necessarily better than religion by any measure of civilization, liberty, reason, or humanity. Also, that some religions are definitely a whole lot more humane, reasonable, creative, libertarian, and civilized, than others. The same is true for atheisms: some are far more civilized than others. Communist atheism murdered huge numbers of people, and did so in the name of atheism. Atheism has not always been associated with good things. Eugenics programs and other forms of biological determinism — movements utterly antithetical to human freedom, ultimately — have sometimes been closely associated with atheism, haven’t they?

    dumbledoresarmy posted an excellent comment quoting Thomas Cahill’s Gifts of the Jews. You might do well to have another look at that and consider whether some of the greatest cognitive gifts given to humanity have not been mediated via religion. According to Cahill, and some other important historians, like Eliade, the Judeo-Christian tradition mediated a clearer and more definitive perception of non-cyclical time, i.e., linear, open-ended time whose future is not a mere repetition of the past in an endless cycle. That means that the Judeo-Christian tradition played a very important role in mediating nothing less than individualized time, the very possibility of individuality itself. Other religions have mediated other cognitive gifts. Some religions — and here I include Islam — have mediated little but an obstacle in humanity’s way, an obstacle perhaps needed to make humanity work and overcome and advance.

  84. says

    I would agree with you, Traeh, had dask simply disagreed. Instead his first post was full on provocative.

    Pleading for the “poor Palastinian children” on a thread acknowledging our Jewish JWers’ holiday is almost as tasteless and repulsive as the musloids in France crying about “backlash” and “islamophobia” days after one of their co-cultists murdered in cold blood, in the name of their cult, three Jewish children.

    His follow up post was simply a lead in to run of the mill “muslims invented everything” and moral equivalency:

    So like it was okay some time in Jewish history to stone women? Where did Mohammed get that practice from? And another thing – clarify for me – who invented algebra? Who invented today’s western alphabet? P

  85. says

    Thankyou Funky child for your words of support. I’ve only been on this site a matter of hours and it seems I created a firestorm. Why don’t the average Joe put the child before the hatred? Makes no sense to me. Thanks again

  86. says

    Funky Child, you said,

    I don’t often comment here, but I want to speak in defense of Mark Dask. The man is very obviously not a useful idiot or a troll.

    I agree with you. Though time might yet prove us wrong.

    You said,

    He is simply expressing what a lot of us here at Jihad Watch believe — that Islamic supremacism is the main threat…

    Hear! Hear!

    …but many evangelical Christians in America, and even certain Jews in Israel, also represent a menace to humane liberal civilizational ideals.

    It’s impossible to object to the statement that “certain” Jews in Israel are a menace to humane liberal civilizational ideals, since your statement could mean that there are only two fanatical miscreants somewhere among the Jewish population in Israel. I’m sure that’s not quite what you meant. But you do seem to mean that the number of fanatical Jews in Israel is a minority. And I certainly agree with that.

    As to your statement that the main threat is Islam, but that “many” evangelicals pose some sort of threat to liberal civilizational values, I would disagree with that modifier “many.” I’m convinced that only a truly minuscule minority of Christians of any sort seek theocracy, i.e., to eliminate freedom of speech, freedom of religion, or democracy. At most, some might seek to shift things somewhat at the margins — but that’s what almost everyone does in a liberal democracy: Try to shift things somewhat at the margins in a preferred direction, without any intent to bring in dictatorship. Further, theocracy runs directly counter to the whole spirit and even the letter of Jesus’ teachings. Even in medieval times, Christian theocracy was always destined to be an impermanent and unstable affair, because even at times when theocratic tendencies waxed full, there always remained at least a latent and confused sense that there were supposed to be two distinct realms, that of Caesar and that of the Church. That distinction is straight from the mouth of Christianity’s prime exemplar. I’m convinced that 95% of the supposed evidences of theocratic leanings on the part of evangelicals are in fact merely opponents’ misconceptions of what the evangelicals mean. In that light, Funky Child, I wonder what you think of Robert Spencer’s book Religion of Peace: Why Christianity Is and Islam Isn’t. In that book Spencer does many things, but one is that he looks at the various books and claims purporting theocratic leanings among large numbers of Christians. And Spencer tests against the facts those allegations of theocratic intent, and demonstrates persuasively, I think, the conclusion that 99% of the allegations are due to misunderstandings and prejudices on the part of those who make the allegations.

    You said,

    And I personally take offense to the attacks that were made on him for merely daring to recognize the humanity of the Palestinians and their children. Yes, they’ve been corrupted almost beyond repair — yes, their influence in world affairs is baneful, they’re raised on genocidal bloodlust, on and on. But they are human and it’s not good to see them suffer house demolitions, air-raids, accidental civilian deaths etc.

    I was with you totally, though had some questions about the last sentence there, but then the next thing you said removed my objections:

    I hold [the Palestinians] responsible for the lion’s share of the conflict but expressing sympathy for them should not be beyond the pale. It is against the spirit of Jihad Watch to categorically deny the human suffering of anybody, and it sucks to see so many of you just acting like Palestinian pain counts for nothing.

    Hear! Hear! Well said. (Though an erstwhile commenter known as Hesperado who has an interesting blog would perhaps tear out his hair for my saying that.)

    Welcome Mr. Dask. This place is not a Jewish or Christian sectarian site, it is open to everybody who seeks to defend human rights against the jihad, including atheists, Muslims of conscience, and anyone else. Robert Spencer is a tireless voice for real, universal human rights and values. Don’t let the chauvinism, bigotry and knee-jerk paranoia of some of the commenters around here make you give up on Jihad Watch. This place is indispensable.

    Hear! Hear!

  87. says

    Sorry about the cut-off, Traeh.

    So dask started off pleading for the Palestinian children on a thread about Passover and ran full steam into baiting the conversation towards the tall tales of Arab/musloids inventing everything.

    As you can see from his latest post he is STILL mewling about JW being “I thought this site was primarily about Jewish expression.”

    You are a gentle soul, Traeh. While I appreciate your effort to stop the sniping and snipping going back and forth I simply do not see dask’s postings here as mere controversy.

    I read them as nothing more than provocation and baiting.

  88. says

    Stop your lefty crocodile tears over the “poor Palestinian children”.
    They are CONCEIVESD & BRED to be HOMICIDAL MANIACS and if you have any complaints,address them to the parents of these 21st Century Hitler Youth and the “Palestinian” Terrorists who send them to do murder ,and HIDE behind them,in order to have a propaganda device.
    You do NOT show an ounce of concern for Israeli children who are constantly forced into shelters while YOUR “poor Palestinians” FIRE ROCKETS at them.

    SHAME ON YOU!

  89. says

    CHOI, the Israelis themselves show far more compassion for Palestinian children than you are showing. Like Funky Child, I give the lion’s share of the blame for the conflict to the Palestinians, but yet at the very same time one can have compassion for Palestinian children, who are VICTIMS of their parents’ insane ideology. (Notice, I said victims of their parents. I did not say victims of Israelis.)

  90. says

    Hi Istanbul_Chick, I agree with traeh about dask, specifically about dask vs Wellington. I had a run in with Wellington once – I forget about what, but he tends to be a bit imperious and intolerant. He tried to have a go at me once but I told him where to get off and now he keeps his mouth shut when I’m around.

    dask is right about the Jewish laws on stoning adulterers – they are the laws of Moses, in case people didnt know adopted nearly in toto by the Muslims, since the Quran is woefully short on specifics.

    He is wrong when he implies that we got algebra or our alphabet or in fact anything of scientific value from Islam. The little “Islamic” science from the so called Golden Age of Islam came from people who were mostly non-Muslims and entirely from civilisations cannibalised by the early Muslim conquests.

    When the conquests dried up so did the “Islamic” discoveries and science.

  91. says

    PS In case dask didnt know true “Islamic science” is found in the Quran, which has discovered the Earth is flat and the Sun is a small object that “swims” around the Earth and sets in the Earth in a muddy spring. That there are 7 layered heavens on on top of the other and that the stars are placed in the nearest heavens and the Sun and the Moon are further from the Earth than the stars. That the semen emanates from between the backbone and the chest, that there no sexless organisms and many other amazing scientific discoveries.

  92. says

    “Merah offended ALL precepts of decency – and religion in the matter is irrelevant.

    That’s not quite true, Merah took his Islamic religion very seriously…A great many Muslims are praising his actions and praising Allah at the same time..

    As reported in an earlier report on Jihad Watch:

    ” In fact, however, Muhammad Merah’s murders had everything to do with Islam: he claimed affiliation with al-Qaeda and may have trained with the Taliban, both of which are explicitly and ostentatiously Muslim groups that justify all their actions by reference to the Qur’an and Sunnah. He claimed to be a mujahid, which is a warrior of jihad, which is an Islamic theological and legal concept. He killed Muslim soldiers who fought in the infidel military — something that only someone who considered one’s loyalty to the umma to trump all other loyalties would have done.

    Indeed, so grounded is Merah’s massacre in Islam that it is virtually inconceivable that he would have carried it out had he not been a Muslim. And so Sarkozy is, like every other leader in the Western world today, whistling in the dark, trying to pretend that there is no problem when there is a huge problem, and basing the future of his nation on the fantasy that the overwhelming majority of Muslims in France do not believe the same things Muhammad Merah believed.”

    Read more: http://www.americanthinker.com/blog/2012/03/the_toulouse_massacre_more_jihad_denial.html#ixzz1rKTa3XNv

  93. says

    Mark

    You chose a peculiar occasion/post to make your appeal for Pali children, and a peculiar viewpoint in assuming that just b’cos this site wishes its Jewish readers well, it must be a Jewish site.

    About your rejoinder to DDA, when you say ‘entire world’ as opposed to Jewish, are you including in that ‘Islam’ or Muslim world as well? If you are, I agree w/ others that you’re trolling here. Mohammed Merah declared that his motivation here was jihad, and he did everything he did in the name of islam, and following his death, muslims in Paris and elsewhere are honoring him. So his act was certainly not an affront to the Muslim world. If you are saying that this was a Humanity vs Muslim, fine, but you’d have to then demonstrate that Jews have allies. Right now, anti-Semitism is back in fashion in ways that only people old enough to recall Nazi Germany can fathom. That would not have been possible had Muslims not taken the lead in driving and owning that movement.

  94. says

    (I bet he loved that video claiming Moses was a mohammedan.)
    That one had me in stiches, claiming that Moses led the muslims into the wilderness. Do they seriously believe people will fall for that guff? What’s next? Will they claim that the Israelites are a manufactured people?

  95. says

    Jan is absolutely right in every detail.

    Come on, people! (I am addressing those who read this site every day.) You should have been on to this guy from the first! An obviously deceptive Muslim troll!

    Cordially
    Robert Spencer

  96. says

    It’s late and I’m tired, but if I were not I would put forth an enthusiastic agreement with what you said.
    In short, well said!

  97. says

    Jan, you’ve brilliantly noted and detailed every red-flag I saw in dask’s posts but was too lazy and tired to make not of in my post to Treah.

    We both, however, forgot the reference to sex; calling Fjordman a Master(bator) AFTER accusing Wellington of personal attacks. Typical mohammadan male mentality; hypocrisy and argue with sexual insults or threats.

    If people weren’t convinced, till that point, that dask was a mohammadan provocateur, THAT should have been enough to catch their attention. He practically threw a flaming red brick with “I’m a slave of allah!” with that one.

  98. says

    The word ‘Muslim’, was in use prior to Mahound, and meant anyone who believed in one supreme god…Or at least that’s what Mahoundians have told me…So Adam and Eve were Muslims and all their children were Muslims, and so Moses was a Muslim leading a large group of other Muslims…But it does not stop there…Everyone is born a Muslim to this very day…According to them…But I think ‘them’ are full of stuff and nonsense…to put it politely…

  99. says

    “The word ‘Muslim’, was in use prior to Mahound, and meant anyone who believed in one supreme god…Or at least that’s what Mahoundians have told me..”

    Do not believe what Muslims tell you. Actually there was no Muhammad, no Qur’an, no Islam and consequently no “Muslims” until the ninth century:

    “… In other words, the first two “Islamic” centuries lie in the shadows of history, and it remains inexplicable how the development of a large Islamic empire could have left behind no witnesses whatsoever, even among groups from whom we might expect such traces, such as the enemies of the Arabs, the many Byzantines known for their literary skills and output, and the Jews and Christians living under the alledged Islamic authority.

    With help from a few datable and localizable extant witnesses, nemely, coins and inscriptions, the contributers to this volume undertake the task of explicating the contours of this development in the first two centuries. It will b proven that the numismatic discoveries from this period, as well as the inscriptions on the Dome on the Rock, actually concern CHRISTIAN texts and symbols, which document Syrian-Arabian theological ideas: that God is one and single, and the the one he has sent (Jesus) is to be praised (Muhammad).

    Such statements were aimed at demarcating the text´ communities from Byzantine conceptions of the Trinity and of Christology. They document the proud attempts of an Arabian Christianity and the empires shaped by it to create and defend their own identity. In addition it will become clear that, long before the appearence of the idea of a Hijra, there was an Arabian-Christian reckoning of time, which began with the year 622 and was only later “converted” to a Muslim meaning. Until approximately the end of the eighth century, so it seems, Arabian-Christian tribal leaders governed the regions of the Near East and of North Africa – indeed, the Umayyad leaders end even the early Abbasids were Christians. …”

    (Karl-Heinz Ohlig in the foreword to “The Hidden Origins of Islam”, 2010).

  100. says

    the high comment count …

    lol, yes: I come from another net discussion on one of Robert Spencer’s books. The resident Muslim Troll had tried to pull a fast one with “that context thing”, only to be told very robustly that the context Ayahs proved him wrong.
    He immediately accused everyone of being ignorant haters and walked off, slamming the door.

  101. says

    Being a horror writer, I love dark and evil fairy tales Swami, however nobody I know has ever been killed or driven from her/his country because of one.

  102. says

    “The regulars here will carve you up like a Christmas Goose–and you’ll DESERVE it!”

    Ahhh, dinner is served!

  103. says

    “Peace be upon you.
    Did he forget himself when he let that one telling phrase slip out?”

    I almost jumped on that one too, until I remembered saying that at Church as a child.

    Roman Catholics shake hands and declare “peace be with you” to their neighbours during mass. It could be a slip of the tongue, another provocation or nothing at all.

    However, everything else he stated, as noted by Jan above, is very, very telling. That he declared islam is a dangerous ideology is a non sequitur. I’ve personally witnessed many, many musloids declare themselves to be atheist or “secular humanists,” claim that islam is a problem in the ME then in the same breath engage in full on dawa about what a great man mohammad was.

    But, what do we know? We’re just “knee-jerking islamophobes.” 😉

  104. says

    Ariel VII, I believe you nailed the crux of the issue right on, as did Wellington and others. “Dark Mask” was the original concept, to stir up the hive and have some devilment, was likely the motive, probably for personal entertainment of the mask, and his gang. And as Robert said, Jan elicited the best ten tells to put the nail on his coffin of typical taqiyya, kitman, and such.

    A bit late, I assuredly wish all who celebrate, a very Happy Passover, and a very Happy Easter. May G_d bless and keep Israel in his hands, as an exemplar of intelligent good, strong and true, in this world. Shalom, Jeshurun!

  105. says

    I almost jumped on that one too, until I remembered saying that at Church as a child.

    I have to plead ignorance to that one as the sound of church bells and the thought of walking on constipated ground is supposed to drive off people such as myself:-)

    But, what do we know? We’re just “knee-jerking islamophobes.” 😉

    Well of course, but sooner that than islamonazis methinks.

  106. says

    Istanbul_Chick noted:

    Roman Catholics shake hands and declare “peace be with you” to their neighbours during mass. It could be a slip of the tongue, another provocation or nothing at all.

    The telling difference was Dask’s use of “upon” instead of “with”. May seem like a trivial difference, were it not for that damned “U” we’ve become accustomed to in that acrid acronym PBUH.

  107. says

    Thank you Robert. I daresay Christains mean it when they are talking to non Christains, but I question whether muslims also mean what they say when they are talking to non muslims? I’ll stick with “Blessed be.” if it’s all right with you?

    Regards
    Greenpen

  108. says

    He has promised to come back tomorrow, metaphorically bloody but unbowed. Something for the regulars of this small but important part of the antiislamofascist resistance movement to look forward to, no doubt?

  109. says

    Wellington, I have always enjoyed your posts and your name is among the ones that I search for immediately when I read the posts for any article.

    I think you outdid yourself today. To paraphrase Churchill, this was your finest hour. In my estimation you cut the Mask off of Dark like a surgeon and, despite his complaints to the contrary, you did it as civilly as possible. Your dissection was almost exciting and I couldn’t wait to get to the next episode of your thread.

    Kudos man! You rock!

    Actually, Jan, if you read this response I say the same to you. I don’t know if this was your finest hour but if it isn’t it has to be pretty darn close.

    I think we all owe Dark Mask or Mark Dask or Darth Invader a debt of gratitude for giving the the Jihad Watchers who posted an this thread an opportunity to show off their talents.

    By the way, can anybody figure out whether MD’s first post was an example of tawriya as described by Raymond Ibrahim in a recent Jihad Watch article? [ http://www.jihadwatch.org/2012/02/raymond-ibrahim-tawriya—new-islamic-doctrine-permits-creative-lying.html ]

    Example 1) “I detest Arab tribalism and barbarity – which goes under the name Islam.” Notice, he didn’t say he detests Islam per se. He approached the topic obliquely and said he hates something masquerading as Islam. The phrasing seems puposely done to allow it to be a double-entendre. Actually it may be a triple-entendre if he subscribes to the Islamic myth that the Jewish prophets, and their followers, were Muslims; but Muslims who eventually strayed from the true religion to become a false Islam. If so, MD is actually saying he hates Judaism. That part, at least, is self-evident.

    Example 2) “I am athiest”. Most people, I think, would word that as “I am an atheist”. The ommission of the indefinite article is significant (to me) because it conveniently allows the phrase to be used as a double-entendre (and a pun) when spoken. The second meaning is “I am a theist, which, according to the American Heritage dictionary, means: “Belief in the existence of a god or gods, especially belief in a personal God as creator and ruler of the world.”

    Example 3) “Islam affects my world as badly as it does yours” well that is a double-entendre if I have ever heard one. Actually it may be a a triple-entendre or an n-entendre in which case it has no meaning whatsoever but it does have a use. If taken at face value it would wrongly lead the listener or reader to conclude that the author has a bone to pick with Islam when the opposite may be true. The fact that MD did not cite one thing in all the threads to show he was badly affected (as we use the word badly) indicates he intended ‘as badly’ to mean ‘not badly at all’.

    I admit that the above logic may be stretched and tawriya is only apparent to someone who thinks (misthinks?) as I do.

    Does anyone have any idea whether I am off the mark about tawriya?

  110. says

    I have noticed what you say, it’s sort of like guerrilla warfare, a little incursion here , a little sabotage there, all in the hopes of finding fissures within JW to divide and to conquer.
    Truth has reality as an ally, a liars armor is heavy to it’s bearer, yet transparent to it’s foe.

  111. says

    Thank you for your kind words, Peter. I smelled a rat right from the get-go as did others on this thread. Really, if provocateurs are going to try to disrupt things here at JW, I wish they would at least be sophisticated provocateurs and thus make it something of a sport in outing them. Right now it’s no sport at all but rather like just shooting fish in a barrel.

    And I agree with you that Jan quite admirably summed things up in his 4:22 A.M. post. Kudos to him. He laid it all out quite well. Thanks too for your reference to that Raymond Ibrahim article. I think you’re on to something. My best to you and to those whom you hold most dear. Happy Easter and Happy Passover.

  112. says

    Wellington,

    “One of the two intellectual cornerstones of Western Civilization is Jewish theological thought, the other being ancient Greek philosophical thought. ”

    Actually, I’d say there are four cornerstones (or pillars I like to call them): The two you mentioned, and their respective historically and culturally symbiotic partners: for the Greek contribution, we must add the Roman — hence Graeco-Roman; and for the Jewish contribution, of course, we must add the Christian — hence Judaeo-Christian.

    These four pillars, or this pair of twinned pillars, constitute(s) Western Civilization (where Secularism or Modernity I would say is not some new development, but rather a phase in the natural organic evolution of that civilization — not without considerable flaws and faults, to be sure, about which we needn’t remind ourselves as, alas, they are all too self-evidently annoying us quite prevalently and regularly with regard to the issue about which this site concerns itself, not to mention a few other important issues as well; but which do not vitiate the continuing and overall greatness, beneficence and superiority of that civilization).

    Wishing you a Happy Easter!

  113. says

    You don’t have to descent to the ocean bottom to find the trolls, they come onto the shore line along with the scum at low tide.

  114. says

    According to Encyclopedia Britannica, “Algebra” comes from the word “al-jabr,” which Enc.Brit also tells us was was part of the title of a book of basic algebra: al-KitÄ�b al-mukhtaá¹£ar fÄ« ḥisÄ�b al-jabr waʾl-muqÄ�bala (“The Compendious Book on Calculation by Completion and Balancing”)

    According to this site, Al-jabr means “the completion,” or “the restoration.” Not “the cipher.” The al-jabr part of the book title refers to the part of algebra where one “restores” the side of an equation that had something removed (subtracted) from it. Thus if x – 2 = 6, al-jabr would mean to “restore” what is missing (subtracted) from the left side of the equation: 2. So add 2 to both sides and get x = 8.

  115. says

    “dask is right about the Jewish laws on stoning adulterers – they are the laws of Moses, in case people didnt know adopted nearly in toto by the Muslims, since the Quran is woefully short on specifics.”

    Islamic law (which, by the way, = Islam, for Islam is a psychopathically litigious and Pharisaic religion) is based on not merely the Koran, but also, and far more copiously and specifically, upon the Sunna (primarily the Hadiths).

  116. says

    Huh, BlueRaven, the gender change never took place (except in your own mind). If you have been regularly reading my posts over the years, I have no idea how you could have ever assumed that I was of that mysterious and, in many ways, better gender. For instance, I have on occasion made reference to my wife, especially in the context of her recovering from cancer (with resilience and great courage I might add). Gotta’ ask, where have you been?

  117. says

    traeh explained:

    Al-jabr means “the completion,” or “the restoration.” Not “the cipher.” The al-jabr part of the book title refers to the part of algebra where one “restores” the side of an equation that had something removed (subtracted) from it.

    I almost thought that word was the same as another I had learned, but see it’s probably not a variant, but simply a different word:

    gibr al-Tariq — which is the island that helps to bridge the distance between the western extreme of North Africa and the southern coast of Iberia (modern Spain): elided into “Gibraltar”. It translates literally as “rock of Tariq” (after a famous Berber convert to Islam, Tariq ibn-Ziyad, who no doubt played a major role in the violent invasion of Spain by Muslims in the 8th century which they tried to expand to include all of Europe through France, but were thwarted at the Battle of Tours in 732 among other battles, and which inaugurated a brutal, oppressive, hostile, intolerant occupation of what is known now as Spain for a good 800 years (with some complex waxing and waning and changes of dynasties from century to century), until finally the West got its shit together enough to booty-whoop the Muslims out definitively by 1492, and proceeded to apply the rational institution of the Inquisition on the many Muslim double agents reasonably suspected to be remaining in hiding).

    Ain’t Islam grand?

  118. says

    My apology Wellington, I crossed the wires at some stage and mixed you up with someone else. I am truly sorry to read about your wife. I hope she is recovering well. My wife also went through and took a heavy doze of chemo. After ten years she is living a relatively normal life (she coughs each morning and can’t do any sport any more. We were both sport fanatics, especially skiing and crazy climbing!).

    I have missed several posts. Where have I been? A good Q – I travel a little and do not get to the Internet and sometimes I am a little lazy or tired to go upstairs and log on. I enjoy reading your posts and responses whenever I can.

  119. says

    No apology necessary, BlueRaven. None whatsoever. I was only amused and perplexed by how you came to think of me as part of that better gender.

    I’m sorry to hear that your wife has also suffered from cancer. The word “cancer,” for my money, is the single ugliest word in the English language (though words from Islam like “Koran,” “Mohammed” and “Sharia” make this a close call).

    May your wife and you enjoy many more happy and fulfilled days together. Life is so precious and fleeting. All the more reason why a waste of life (e.g., believing that a seventh-century Arab psychopath is the final messenger sent from God) is so tragic. My best to you and to your wife. Happy Easter.

  120. says

    greenpen,

    “You don’t have to descent to the ocean bottom to find the trolls, they come onto the shore line along with the scum at low tide.”

    True; though in terms of conceiving of a long comments thread as a depth of ocean water, where the last comment is bottomwards, and the first up top is the surface, one has to plumb down, for the sea troll usually attempts to descend way out of his depth as he keeps digging himself deeper in (to mix metaphors) — and besides, as I mentioned in my previous comment, such sea creatures often trigger some interesting discussions from the readership which, in turn, stirs up some thoughts I’d like to express as well.

    Once down in that deep, I rarely continue reading the sea troll himself, but enjoy the intelligent ripples from among the other sea life which his flotsam and jetsam, unnaturally submerged as they are down there, generate; for it is not advisable to find one’s heart rate accelerating and one’s blood pressure boiling at such a depth — which is all that reading him would be good for. In such a circumstance, at any rate, the JW readership rarely let me down, such that I may succumb to my anomie and ennui (existentialist sea creatures resembling deep sea coral or spiny urchins) and find myself losing hope at the hadal bottom reduced to a pair of ragged claws/Scuttling across the floors of silent seas. Soon enough, I manage to get my bearings at an Octopus’s Garden, where a friendly and Yellow Submarine hails me aboard for my trip back on high.

  121. says

    and proceeded to apply the rational institution of the Inquisition on the many Muslim double agents reasonably suspected to be remaining in hiding).

    I fail to see anything rational about the Spanish inquisition, Did you really mean to say that?

  122. says

    Soon enough, I manage to get my bearings at an Octopus’s Garden, where a friendly and Yellow Submarine hails me aboard for my trip back on high.

    Did you also manage to get their autographs while you were on board?:-)

  123. says

    I was thinking the exact same thing– I have never heard anyone call the Spanish Inquisition a ‘rational institution’. Scary!

  124. says

    You are welcome Wellington and I am definitely looking forward to a time when you and Jan outdo yourselves. If you do, that will be something to behold.

    Also, thanx for the holiday wishes and a reminder. Although I have said Happy Easter to Jihad Watchers in a previous posting, I never mentioned Pesach which is strange because I was getting ready for the second Seder as I was reading the threads on this article. So, Happy Pesach everyone. Happy Easter everyone.

    Now that I am back from the Seder I have had time to do a little research on Darth Invader and I think traeh has taken his pulse the best.

    Some of the research was confusing to me because I don’t know anything about twitter and I wasn’t sure how to interpret the tweets I found.

    Our visitor even has a Wikipedia entry which explains his call name and it accords with Ariel VII’s assumption that it is an intended spoonerism:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Markdask

    You may note that this entry doesn’t tell us much about him. I thought that strange but not particularly dark (mask or otherwise).

    He also has an entry at linkedin but the personal bio at that site had nothing on him except he is from the UK. Even I provided more info in my bio for linkedin. Again, curious but not nefarious or even dark.

    It appears that he has something to do with editing or possibly deleting Wikipedia entries:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Markdask&useformat=desktop

    I am not a twitter user but I did find his twitter page. It’s at: http://twitter.com/#!/markdask. His photo is found here.

    I’m not sure how to interpret the list of tweets on the right hand side of the twitter screen. They make no sense on their own and I can’t seem to find any way to link them to something with substance. Maybe twitter members at Jihad Watch would be able to interpret the import of all of this for me.

    In any case, I worked with these tweets as much as I could and found nothing about Islam or anything we usually analyze at Jihad Watch. So at the moment I’m not sure what to make of him (if anything).

    I did find something disturbing (to me) but I couldn’t tell whether this was attributable to Mark Dask or someone who sent him a message.

    Specifically, in the tweets there are multiple references to something called Kony12. Also, there are multiple references to a terrorist group called LRA (Lord’s Resistance Army) about which I know nothing. Wikipedia describes it as a Christian terrorist organization based in Uganda. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lord's_Resistance_Army

    I found it interesting while reading the above article, that the LRA is accused of the very human rights violations that I associate with Islam. That doesn’t necessarily make it Islamic but it may mean that the LRA is involved in a tit-for-tat war with Islam. Anyone have better info than Wikipedia on the LRA?

    The link to Kony12 (below) gives access to a video (also on Youtube) that appears to be an example of community organizing at its best and possibly at its most profitable:

    http://www.kony2012.com/

    Now, I’m definitely not averse to fighting terrorism in any of its forms but the documentary at this link disturbed me because a careful analysis revealed its leftist agenda.

    Its real purpose is (in its own words) to ‘move communities’ to action. This is very Saul Alinsky in my books. It is especially so at the 4:30 mark when a school teacher in the documentary says: “the global community is literally in their backyard”. My feeling is this project, however benign it appears on the surface, is intended to pervert kids into becoming future leftist activists, possibly at the global level.

    The producers were obviously clueless about Islam and the inhuman conditions enforced within its ambit because at the 4:38 mark of the video they have a Muslimina saying: “It becomes our duty as humans to spread awareness of inhumane conditions in the world, anywhere.” If the producers believe what they scripted this woman to say, they would be going after Islam first because compared to it the LRA is small potatoes.

    Now MD may be involved in this project or he may be deeply sympathetic towards its goals at some level of his understanding of it. This may explain his visit to Jihad Watch in part but there is obviously a lot more to his story.

    So for the moment, I’m still convinced we’ve got this guy’s pulse right. He may not be a Muslim but everything that has been pointed out about him indicates he thinks, phrases, reacts and argues like them. I almost feel like telling Jamie Glazov that he might have underestimated the Muslim and Left connection in his book United in Hate.

  125. says

    I don’t know if anyone will still be reading this thread, but if they are, thanks for the kind words. As you say, Wellington, it is rather like shooting fish in a barrel. By the way, you’ve made the same mistake with me, as BlueRaven did with you – I’m a woman, not a man ! Happy Easter, Passover etc. to all. My best to you and yours, also.

  126. says

    Wellington,

    It’s also a basic principle of logic that all human institutions and endeavors are never free of error (except perhaps certain string quartets playing Mozart). The question thus is not whether the Spanish Inquisition was free of error or not, but rather 1) what errors did it commit and 2) did those errors render their agenda and methods with regard to Muslims permissible and effective, or impermissible?

  127. says

    The Spanish Inquisition was instituted to search out, torture, and kill converts from Judaism who secretly clung to their Jewish beliefs. No other group was mentioned or targetted as heretics in the royal decree- just Jewish converts. If the Inquisition was really to rid Spain of heretics- why was no other group mentioned?

  128. says

    Mark dask has me thinking, trying interpret his entrance statements.

    I think he was so taken aback by the posting about something Jewish (i.e. wishing a happy passover) that was NOT SPITTING VENOM at Jews. Or I should say at “Jews” meaning at the mental bugbear that thrives in the minds of all who subscribe to that mental obsession with “Jews” popular with muslims and some others. It took him aback because the venom toward Jews is so ubiquitous, it is the mental water in which he swims, both when websurfing, and also much of the rest of the time.

    Is it possible that reference to anything pertaining to “Jews” provokes such uncontrollable feelings of hate, animosity, such a condemnatory pavlovian reflex, that he was – sincerely here- SHOCKED. Shocked to see a simple suggestion that some posters here might be Jews and not be immediately condemned (like in the Koran or in mosques, or on many musloid websites etc), but simply treated as human, and for the joyous Passover holiday, wished well? This can only be explained by JihadWatch being “a Jewish thing.” Only that could explain a mention of “Jews” without the mandatory expressions of hatred!

    “This can not be allowed!” he felt. Hence our musloid troll Mark Dask was moved by his ingrained mental tracks, and he took action. This he did by pissing all over the most innocent of blog posts with the thought forms of his twisted world.

    Never before has it occurred to me to try to peek into the mindset of suchlike. Abiding the horror of, wait for it, JEWS, which loom so gargantuan in the muslim mind, honestly SHOCKED him. Angered him. Upset him. Riled him. Pushed all his Islamicly-formed hate buttons.

    So now I am going to try to understand, by considering thoughtfully, what that might feel like. (I’m a Westerner, you see, who finds it expanding to sometimes look through other’s eyes, even if they are very misguided, just to understand.) I imagine, from the miasma of Islamic fear, coupled with the “bugbearism,” and seeing the bugbear I’ve been trained since perhaps age 2 to recoil from with horror apparently regarded with humanity by people apparently too ignorant to hate. And needing, needing to rectify this incomprehensible impropriety.

    God, it’s ugly. Tonight, I will pray for the dear deluded man who trolled today as “Mark Dask.” Perhaps some others here, if it feels right, also might.

    Happy Passover to Jews! (yes I know it’s over already :0)

    Happy Easter to Christians! :)

    Peace to all!

  129. says

    You seem to have missed my post on April 7, 2012 12:42 PM concerning http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Markdask. he’s a new page patroller and a user/fan of speedy deletion. I/E a bigger cheese in the wikipedia hierarchy that my humble self. He doesn’t appear to contribute, just to censor, although I haven’t yet done an in depth study of his input or lack of.
    I’ve found out. as a contributor to wikipedia. that it is crawling with lefties who pounce on anything which might show islam in a bad light. I updated the Anjem Choudary page a while back to bring it up to date. I entered references and made factual comments, all to no avail, It was deleted before I even finished editing. Same thing with the EDL page where I tried to put a factual piece concerning the 2011 Nov 11 remembrance Sunday arrests. Same thing again, they claimed my references were no good. Exactly the same when I started a British Freedom party page, deleted before I could get going. Next thing I knew somebody else had produced a page where lefties seem to have more say that the actual party members in the know. They tell me you can’t use original research. Yes, I’m pretty sure where Markdask is coming from all right. And the name is a pseudonym, not a real one. Nobody on wikipedia uses their own names as far as I am aware. You can find out what he’s involved in by visiting his talk pages.

  130. says

    Well, Jan, then things really did come full circle what with my assuming you were a guy. LOL. In any case, all along I wasn’t sure if Mark Dask was a Muslim or a super leftie but I knew he had to be one of the two. You made a great argument for the former and traeh, whom I also respect very much, has made the case for the latter. But either way Mark Dask is far, far from getting at the truth of things. And many times over. Take care, Jan.

  131. says

    Yes, LemonLime, you have stated it more accurately than I did. In any case, you are right about the SI being rational though I’m personally glad it’s still not around with me being hauled before it. Wouldn’t be a good thing seen from my perspective.

  132. says

    I’m trying to understand your reasoning in regards to the Spanish Inquisition…

    First you tell people they have to convert or die, then, when they do convert, you decide to kill them anyway because their conversions are not sincere.

    How is this rational?

  133. says

    greenpen,
    As you know, anybody can edit Wikipedia and delete things from it. So it might not be people up in the Wikipedia hierarchy who are immediately deleting you. I gather that when deletions and additions are disputed among visitors to the site, the hierarchy or mediators or whatever get involved to resolve the dispute. The material there on Islam is often dominated by Muslims and their enablers, certainly.

  134. says

    Yes, I did miss your post but not by intent. It looks like a timing issue. I was finishing up my comment to Wellington when your comment went on line. At that point I started research on my second post but had to leave for a Seder.

    I did check the last few posts when I got back and it looked to me like the Muslim theory might still be under discussion so I posted the results of my research on DM.

    You said I’ve found out. as a contributor to wikipedia. that it is crawling with lefties who pounce on anything which might show islam in a bad light.

    I’m sure glad you included that information and all the information that followed it. It is something I suspected should be happening at Wikipedia but I couldn’t point to anything that supported that suspicion.

    Now that you have provided some backbone to my belief I can fill things out a bit.

    In recent years I have been told by University students and recent graduates that they have been warned by their professors that they will be failed if it becomes evident that they used Wikipedia as a research tool. As I understood it, this wasn’t about plagiarism, this was about referencing an article or just using an idea that may have come from a Wikipedia article.

    The reason for this attitude I am quite sure is that Wikipedia is not a source of misinformation, it is a source of information and that information goes contrary to what the liberal left professors are claiming to be the truth.

    If the students go to Wikipedia they will discover that some of the things their professors claim to be fact are actually lies. Some of the braver students might even take their professors to task over the lies and that process, given enough time, could seriously damage the leftist cause. So, threatening a sanction against a student for accessing Wikipedia is a control mechanism directed towards a socio-political end.

    Now, the academia know that no manner of sanction will keep the free thinkers away from that site so the only recourse the left has is to infiltrate and control the content of Wikipedia.

    If they ever do get sufficient control of Wikipedia we may see the situation reverse where students are required to use Wikipedia as a resource because it has become, at that point, the biggest resource of leftist propaganda on the planet.

    So leftist control of Wikipedia has to be coming down the pipe as it would reinforce the control the left already has over the Universities. If any reader doubts the fact that the left controls the Universities, see the 10 part documentary on YouTube called “Indoctrinate U”. The first episode is found at:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EU7_Ju5QTyY

    By the way, I forgot to mention something in my haste to finish off last night. In one of the tweets for Dask I saw the following:

    Hey wtf! I just went back to the twitter page for Mark Dask to get the twitter quote in which I was interested and that page has been cancelled or deleted. I would presume that has been done by him or at his request. It looks like this guy likes cutting things out and not just at Wikipedia. This guy must have something to hide.

    I said in my previous post that there was something curious, but not necessarily dark, about this guy because he seemed to be hidding anything that could be considered biographical; well now I’m thinking this is closer to being dark than curious.

    Admittedly, some people like their privacy but the Wikipedia bio on him should have given at least some indication as to why he is qualified to be an editor/deleter/rejecter of its articles.

    I consider myself pretty well-educated and pretty-well informed but under no circumstances would I consider myself good enough to qualify as a Wikipedia editor. So what creditials does this guy have?

    Mark Dask’s editorship or whatever it is, reminds me of Obama’s editorship at, and presidency of, the Harvard Law Review. As far as I know, Obama never wrote a single article for this prestigious journal prior to these assignments so what were his credentials for being awarded such honours? I don’t think anyone knows.

    Obama, also goes out of his way to hide things. In Obama’s case it is very curious because he has written an autobiography so he should have no problems with making his educational qualifications public. Nope, they are sealed. Why? Possibly because they are mediocre enough to indicate his positions of honour at Harvard were unwarranted. The following link is to an article which shows what Obama has hidden or sealed. It also brings into question how the media can get their hands on another politician’s transcripts but not his.

    http://hotair.com/greenroom/archives/2011/08/14/media-unearths-rick-perrys-college-transcripts-in-nothing-flat-but-still-unable-to-find-any-trace-of-barack-obamas-existence/

    Well, getting back to Darth Invader or whatever he calls himself, the tweet I intended to use was a fairly old one and in it was a comment that suggested he (or whoever originated the tweet) was suggesting doing something about the content of advertising. I got the impression that the comment was about censorship of certain advertisments.

    When I read that tweet, I got a little concerned because I recalled the fact that this guy was editing (censoring?) Wikipedia articles. I started to wonder if that was his game in life and more importanly his game at Jihad Watch. Was he baiting Jihad Watchers into saying something nasty enough that he could use it as evidence of racism, or some other humbug that the left identifies as socially unacceptable? If yes, imagine his surprise when the tables were turned and Jihad Watcher were accusing him of this kind of behaviour. “Live by the sword Mark Dask, die by the sword.”

    I am sorry to hear that Wikipedia had gutted or prevented some of your articles. That must generate the same feeling as an author seeing one of his books being burned.

    I’m doubly sorry to hear that original research is being disallowed. I guess the Wikipedia censors would turn down Herodotus whose “Histories” were almost all original research. In fact, our word history comes from Herodotus’ use of the ancient Greek word ἱστοÏ�ία in the proem of his book. This Greek word merely means ‘a looking into’ or ‘ a research’. The classical Greeks would have understood the term to mean original research. Funny how the “Histories” is one of the most quoted works by academics of ancient history despite it being original research.

    Anyway, thanx for your comments GP. Sorry for missing your link. Sorry if I did too much soap boxing. Good luck with your Wikipedia problems and Happy Easter (what’s left of it. Nice talkin’ to ya.

  135. says

    PETER:

    Re: Mark Dask’s Twitter page vanishing. It’s just because when you originally linked to it above, you made the minor error of including a closing period in the link. When the reader clicks on it, it takes you to an error page. All you have to do then is go up to your URL and delete (backspace over) that final period in the address, click refresh, and you are back to his Twitter page, still there.

  136. says

    I agree with your praise of the comments from Wellington and Jan, Peter.

    In fact, excellent comments from yourself, also”as well as Traeh and Blue Raven.

    And great post from LemonLime on the troll phenomenon as seen here at JW.

    As for “Mark Dask’s” assertion that “Now I will become a regular commentator on this site”, I really doubt it. His comment stream on this thread had all the classic earmarks of being a one-time “drive by”.

  137. says

    Westward Ho wrote:

    Mark dask has me thinking, trying interpret his entrance statements.

    I think he was so taken aback by the posting about something Jewish (i.e. wishing a happy passover) that was NOT SPITTING VENOM at Jews…
    ……………………………………..

    I believe “Mark Dask””from everything I’ve read both here and elsewhere”is a hard leftist “multi-culturalist”. So when he hears *anything* about Jews, his first response is “what about the plight of the Palestinian children?”, and his second response is “all religions are equally bad”.

  138. says

    Hi LL thanks for the comments. You said:

    “The more I learn of this Mark Dask character, the more I can imagine him getting along famously in a soirée with Bono, Julian Assange, Sean Penn, and… perhaps Eric Allen Bell.”

    Geez, I hadn’t even thought about that but now that you bring it up I would agree. Actually, thinking about my comments to Greenpen (and some of his comments to me) Darth Invader may also be happy at a soirée with stranger and darker people than those you listed.

    Take care. Talk to ya soon

  139. says

    The Renaissance, greenpen, both the Italian and Northern, was steeped in religion. Christianity has only ever had to be true to itself and in doing so liberty would flow ineluctably from it. It’s only when Christians betrayed their own faith that problems resulted. But with Islam we have an entirely different kind of religion, one which is an enemy of freedom and so much else which bespeaks to the best angels of our nature.

  140. says

    Thanx for the kind words GI.

    I suspect he will be back but not as a regular as he promised (threatened?)

    My prediction is he will hide for a while and try studying up a bit. I think the knowledge of the posters here caught him by surprise. I think his lack of same also caught him unawares. For all his bluster, denials, etc. I think it was obvious to him that he was out of his depth at Jihad Watch and that he didn’t know as much as he thought he did.

    So we will see him again after he has ‘studied up’ on the issues intending to wow us with his newly found erudition (emphasis on the rude part of that word).

    If so, he will be in for an even greater ‘rude awakening’ the second time around. I suggest you take the torch from Wellington or Jan’s hand on that occassion. Darth Invader won’t know what hit him.

    Take care GI. Talk to ya soon

  141. says

    Yes, I did read the essay you linked. I don’t get my history from Monty Python or Mel Brooks. I don’t believe that Spaniards loved their inquisition- but rather feared it. I don’t believe that most conversos accused were let go- but rather were arrested and convicted without ever knowing the identity of their accusors. They were tortured until they confessed to being heretics. Once they confessed, they were killed. It didn’t really matter if they repented- they died either way.

    I don’t buy the Catholic Church’s attempt at diminishing the horror of the Spanish Inquisition- although I am not surprised that they try.

    Once Jews converted to Christianity they were afforded many rights both economically and politically. With these new rights they prospered. This evoked a lot of hostility from the Christians- nothing new there.

  142. says

    It’s simply not true that the Spanish Inquisition was only established to go after Jews who had converted to Catholicism,, i.e., Maraonos, and who had only done so formally. The SI was also set up to root out Moriscos who were not sincere, that is to say Muslims who had converted to Christianity. Also, even though the SI was set up three years before Martin Luther was even born, already there had been many Christian heresies that had to be dealt with and the SI was established for this also. John Wycliff and Jan Hus and their ideas were recent memory and the SI had to consider their ideological descendants as well. And if you don’t take into the account the single greatest phenomenon in all of Spanish history, the Reconquista, when assessing the SI, then fallacious assumptions will begin to pile on one another quite effortlessly.

    Moreover, in the thinking of the time, it was one king, one law, one religion. I’m not defending this but only trying to explain the mindset of the age. A solid case could be made for the argument that in the fifteenth and sixteenth centuries, religious diversity threatened the state. Protestant political entities, once the Reformation began, also were vigorous in rooting out Catholic sympathies. It was the way of the times. Fortunately, in free countries today this is no longer the case, but taking one’s own set of assumptions back into time and holding long dead people accountable for not having a modern mindset is the worse way to go about understanding the past with three dimensional sophistication. Following your line of thinking, why praise the Founding Fathers of America at all since most were slave owners? Really, if you can’t be better informed and more subtle in understanding history, give it up. Done here.

  143. says

    LemonLime wrote:

    Meanwhile, as dusk settles over Gotham, Mark Dask sits poised, reconfiguring to fight Commissioner Gordon another day, another way…
    …………………………..

    Brilliant, LemonLime. Sometimes these creeps do indeed seem all too much like comic book villains…

  144. says

    “Really, if you can’t be better informed and more subtle in understanding history, give it up. Done here.”

    I’m sorry but I have watched you all trash Mr. Dask (or whatever his name is) and others -I have to chime in on all of you learned scholars…

    So in 100 years your people going to look back at the child molester catholic priests (crimes that are CONDONED by the church) and say they were trying to “save the souls of these troubled young boys”?
    The damn muzzies learned a lot from the evil “SI” perpetrators. The same rationality applies to both & I don’t know which is more evil of the two.

  145. says

    How you moved from Dask, who deserved to be trashed, to future folks like so many of us condoning child molestation is a route that is a very weird one. Well, there’s no accounting for the reasoning power of loads of human beings. Like you.

  146. says

    Dan Weddle wrote:

    So in 100 years your people going to look back at the child molester catholic priests (crimes that are CONDONED by the church) and say they were trying to “save the souls of these troubled young boys”?
    ………………………………..

    Whatever are you on about? No one here excuses any sort of child abuse. What crap.

    By the way, “Dan Weddle” is also over on the “Robert Spencer: Juan Cole is as ignorant of Catholicism as he is of Islam”, with his same false claims.