Leading U.S. Muslim jurist: Female genital mutilation an "honor" in Islam

How is it that Dr. Hatem al-Haj, a fellow at the American Academy of Pediatrics and a leading Muslim jurist, misunderstands Islamic law so severely as to think that this purely cultural practice has something to do with Islam? Surely it can't be that the mainstream media and Islamic leaders in the U.S. have been lying to us, and FGM really is justified in Islam, could it? Naaah.

"AMJA Senior Committee Member: Female Genital Mutilation Is 'an Honor' per Islam," from Translating Jihad, April 27 (thanks to all who sent this in):

A couple of weeks ago I posted a translation of a paper by Association of Muslim Jurists of America (AMJA) senior committee member Dr. Hatem al-Haj, PhD, MD, in which he warned American Muslims against working in law enforcement in our 'infidel' nation (see here for more details). Now in my latest translation, Dr. al-Haj explains why female circumcision is recommended and even 'an honor' for women....

Below is my excerpted translation of the 41-page Arabic-language paper by Dr. Hatem al-Haj entitled "Circumcision of Girls: Jurisprudence and Medicine" (see the original here and here):

The ruling on circumcision: Scholars have differed on the ruling on circumcision. They have agreed on its legitimacy for both sexes, but beyond that they have differed. Some--most famously the Shafi’ites--believe that it is obligatory for both sexes. Some believe it is obligatory for men only, and some believe it is recommended for both. At the very least it can be said that for women it is an honor, and for men it is sunnah [i.e. it is in accord with the tradition of Muhammad].

There are many hadiths on circumcision, some of which will be presented here along with the commentary of some scholars:

From Abi-Hurayra, who attributed it to the Prophet: “Five (acts of) al-fitrah [Islamic law or way of nature] are circumcision, shaving pubic hair, plucking armpit hair, trimming fingernails, and clipping the mustache.” Also from Abi-Hurayra: “The Messenger of Allah said, ‘Abraham was circumcised when he was 80 years old’.”’ Allah said: “So We have taught thee the inspired (Message), Follow the ways of Abraham the True in Faith” [Qur’an 16:123]. Also recorded in a hadith is the saying of (Muhammad) to a man who converted to Islam: “Remove your infidel hair and be circumcised.”

Muhammad also said regarding circumcision: “If you touch the two circumcisions, you must wash.” Here is evidence that women were circumcised, and therefore any of the hadiths on circumcision which do not specify men or women, can be assumed to apply to both.

From Sa’id bin Jabir: “Ibn ‘Abbas was asked, “How old were you when the Prophet (PBUH) died?" He replied, "At that time I had been circumcised. People (in those days) did not circumcise men until they reached puberty.” From the hadith of Umm ‘Atiyah--who used to circumcise girls--the Messenger of Allah said to her, “Reduce it, but do not remove too much, because it is more beautiful to behold and better for her husband.” This is the most explicit evidence in the hadiths of Muhammad for female circumcision being legitimate and even recommended. From Ibn ‘Abbas, attributing it to the Prophet: “Circumcision is sunnah for men and an honor for women.” This was narrated by al-Bayhaqi, and its attribution is weak.

Ibn al-Mundhir narrated from Abi-Barza: “We asked the Messenger of Allah (PBUH) about an uncircumcised man making pilgrimage to the Ka’aba. He replied, ‘No, not until he’s circumcised’.” This was considered a weak hadith by Ibn al-Mundhir and others.

There’s no doubt that among these hadiths there are those which are sound but do not explicitly command or urge women to become circumcised. There are also those which are met with disagreement by scholars, and these hadiths are more explicit in confirming the legitimacy of female circumcision. But the hadiths on the laws of al-fitrah which mention circumcision--and these are sound--do not mean that it is done on men only and not women. It is certain that circumcision includes both men and women, as is clearly stated in the hadith about touching the two circumcisions.

Below are words from scholars on the ruling on circumcision:

The Hanafis: Al-Zayla’i said: “The general ruling is that circumcision is sunnah, and is one of the trademarks of Islam. In fact, if the people of Egypt or some land decided to abandon its practice, the Imam would make war against them, for it cannot be abandoned except by necessity... Female circumcision is not sunnah, but it is an honor for men because it is more pleasing during sex” [ellipses in original].

The Malikites: From al-Kharshi’s brief summary of Khalil: “Its ruling (i.e. circumcision) is that it is sunnah for men, and it cuts off the foreskin. It is recommended for women, and is called khifad [reduction].”

The Shafi’ites: From [Asna al-Mutalib]: “Circumcision is obligatory (at puberty). The reasoning for this is the saying of the Almighty: “So We have taught thee the inspired (Message), Follow the ways of Abraham the True in Faith” [Qur’an 16:123]. In Abraham’s religion, circumcision was present. Also in the two Sahihs: “He was circumcised when he was eighty years old.” In Sahih Ibn Hibban, and in al-Hakim it was said 120 years, and it was also said 70 years. Also it was narrated by Abu-Dawud: “(The Prophet) (PBUH) ordered a man who converted to Islam to be circumcised.” They said that since he cut off a member which could not be replaced, it had to be obligatory like cutting off the hand. Since the man was injured during the process, he feared it. If it were not obligatory for him, then it would not have been permissible. This is unlike the circumcision of little boys, crazy people, and those who cannot endure it, because the first are too young to be required to do anything, and the last are harmed by it.” Al-Nawawi said in al-Majmu’: “Circumcision is obligatory for our men and women. This was stated by many of the salaf, as al-Khatabi relates. Ahmad was one of those who said it was obligatory. Malik and Abu-Hanifa said that it was sunnah for everyone. This was related by al-Rafi’i. He also related that (circumcision) is obligatory for men and sunnah for women. These were the two approaches of Shadhan, and of the sound and famous school of thought which was penned by al-Shafi’i, in which the multitude of scholars declared that circumcision is obligatory for men and women.”

The Hanbalis: From Ibn Muflih’s Furu’ [body of rules and regulations for man’s behavior]: “(According to Ahmad), circumcision is obligatory on all but women, for whom it is recommended. Our Shaykh said, ‘It is obligatory because cleanliness and prayer are obligatory’.” Ibn Qudama said: “Circumcision is a duty for men, and for women it is an honor, but it is not obligatory. This has been stated by many scholars.” Ahmad said: “The man is more difficult, because if the man is not circumcised, then the skin dangles over the [penis] and cannot be cleaned. But the woman is easier.”

The al-Mawsu’a al-Fiqhia (“The Encyclopedia of Jurisprudence”) summarizes scholars’ opinions on circumcision as follows:

“The ruling on circumcision: Scholars differ on circumcision as follows: First, the Hanafis and Malikites--and very rarely the Shafi’ites--hold to the opinion of what Ahmad said, that circumcision is sunnah for men but not a duty. It is one of the acts of al-fitrah, and one of the rituals of Islam. If the people of a particular land decided together to abandon its practice, the Imam would make war against them, just like if they abandoned the call to prayer. This also represents what the Malikites think about circumcision of women. Hanafis and Hanbalis consider female circumcision to be an honor and not sunnah. It is said by some Hanafis that it is also sunnah for [women], and some say that it is recommended. … Second, the Shafi’ites and Hanbalis, as is also stated by Sahnoun from the Malikites, believe that circumcision is a duty for both men and women. … Third, this is written by Ibn Qudama in al-Mughni, that circumcision is a duty for men, and for women it is an honor but not a duty” [ellipses in original].

Assessment

It appears that for male circumcision the most correct view is that it is obligatory, owing to the saying of Muhammad to the man who converted to Islam: “Remove your infidel hair and be circumcised.” This was obligatory--there was no alternative.

Regarding women, perhaps the most correct view is that it is recommended, however there is consensus that it is (at least) legitimate. Muhammad also endorsed it, as was narrated in the hadith of Umm ‘Atiyah, who used to circumcise girls. He said to her: “Reduce it, but do not remove too much, because it is more beautiful to behold and better for her husband.” He also said, “If you touch the two circumcisions, you must wash.” This shows that female circumcision was prevalent during his day, and he did not repudiate it. Nor did he stipulate anything else regarding female circumcision.

Perhaps the saying that it is (only) recommended is due to the pain women must go through to carry out the acts of al-fitrah, such as circumcision, as stated in the sound hadith. But as we mentioned, this is not evidence of it being confined only to men. The term circumcision was used for both men and women during Muhammad’s time. But it is clear that performing circumcision must be preferable to not performing it, especially when one considers that circumcision includes both pain and revealing one’s nakedness. Thus if there was no benefit to it, the Messenger of Allah would not have agreed to it. However there is still no evidence for making it obligatory. The fact that the Messenger of Allah agreed to it despite the pain and discovering one’s nakedness is not evidence for making it obligatory. Instead, this is evidence for preferring the action over not doing it, as we stated. (Muhammad’s) command to Umm ‘Atiyah is not a command to all women to (be circumcised), but rather he was regulating its practice. He was not telling her not to do it, he was telling her not to go too far and injure the women.

His command to the man who converted to Islam does not apply to women. Even though the principle is that “women are men’s sisters”, and women are often included when addressing men and vice versa, that only applies when there is no reason to differentiate between them. Here the issue is different for men and women. The man’s foreskin could trap urine at the end of it and affect his cleanliness. The issue is not the same for women. Therefore it is appropriate for this to be stressed more for men, and this is apparent in the words of scholars and the works of the ummah.

I have summed up the words of Muhammad and of scholars to show that circumcision is legitimate, and that the principal issue in the study is the limits of circumcision.

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Very good - this article finally plugs in the holes about what the Malikis believe. Only thing missing is what do the various, or leading Shia schools have to say about it.

Is Abu Dawood the only hadith that has anything about this, or are there others - particularly in Bukhari or Muslim?

P.S. I haven't noticed Marisol post for several weeks now. Has she left?

Dr. Hatem al-Haj is a fellow at the American Academy of Pediatrics?

Oh dear, oh dearie me.


This same type of crisis for muslims in Canada wanting the FMG legal has been gone unchecked because the Liberal white-guilt has lowered the bar for msulims as if THOSE-people are like that and can't help but be misogynistic and oppressive.

Doctors in Canada also fear opposing Shariah for fear of attacks or having their Clinic's bombed by terrorists.

Muslim now know that Terrorism works .

Male circumcision doesn't mutilate the penis nor does it interfere with sexual pleasure (I believe it is also the case that penile cancer, an extremely rare form of cancer to be sure, has only ever been detected in noncircumcised males, thus there is arguably a sound medical reason for circumcision). Female circumcision, by contrast, most definitely involves mutilation and almost certainly does interfere with sexual pleasure (and has no medical benefit whatsoever). The differences are so stark that it is an example of word travesty to refer to both procedures by the same name.

Why is this barrow still a member of the American Academy of Pediatrics?

Hey Mamode, I suppose you're going to tell us that Muslim women demand to undergo FGM, just like they march in defense of and demand to wear the slave rag. Hard to march though, when your private parts have been hacked away.

FGM is just one more way for Muslims to humiliate, degrade and dehumanize their women. Why should she be allowed to experience sexual pleasure? I think Allah blew it on this one though. Why give women the ability to enjoy sex if they are not allowed to enjoy it? Or was that one more way for insecure Muslim men to feel superior in the world.

I'm noticing a pattern here: with Muslims, whoever the opposing party is, they must suffer extreme pain in the presence of a Muslim. I was reading about the battle of Malta last night and when Mustapha finally conquered St. Elmo he was so exasperated at the Christians' resistance that he tore the beating hearts out of the wounded knights chests. Very charitable. Very Muslim. There is also Halal slaughter which causes immense pain to the animals who have their throats cut and are then hung up and left to bleed to death. That's a Muslim thing, isn't it? I guess in the Muslim world, it's very insecure men can't function properly unless something around them is in severe pain or is dying. Que that Louis Armstrong song.

Just like it was an honor for child Aisha to be molested and raped by Muhammed, I suppose?

He is a pediatrician??? Ugh, wonder how mant little girls he has been doing this too in his office?

Some one needs to alert Obama! He's got two young daughters he should want to get on that operating table soon for this Islamic honor of having their genitalia cut on. I know he respects Islam highly and wants us to also, and he needs to set an example.

The American Academy of Pediatrics needs to be held accountable for having this barbarian in its organization. Talk about devaluing an institution.

Great work by Translating Jihad.

Some commenters above have mentioned the American Academy of Pediatrics (AAP). This organization itself was reportedly recommending an accommodation of female circumcision, allowing a minor "nick" or "pin prick," just a couple of years ago.

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/05/07/health/policy/07cuts.html

"...Most forms of FGC are decidedly harmful, and pediatricians should decline to perform them, even in the absence of any legal constraints. However, the ritual nick suggested by some pediatricians is not physically harmful and is much less extensive than routine newborn male genital cutting. There is reason to believe that offering such a compromise may build trust between hospitals and immigrant communities, save some girls from undergoing disfiguring and lifethreatening procedures in their native countries, and play a role in the eventual eradication of FGC. It might be more effective if federal and state laws enabled pediatricians to reach out to families by offering a ritual nick as a possible compromise to avoid greater harm."

http://www.circumstitions.com/AAP.html

They reversed this decision shortly thereafter due to opposition from anti-fgm activists:
http://www2.aap.org/advocacy/releases/fgc-may27-2010.htm

"Our Shaykh said, ‘It is obligatory because cleanliness and prayer are obligatory’."

Cleanliness?
According to Muhammad, stinky water containing menstrual discharge and dead dogs is clean and pure and Muslims are allowed to use it for Ablutions!!!

http://crossmuslims.blogspot.ca/2010/04/muhammad-and-menses-mahomet-et-les.html

Female genital mutilation(circumcision) is a crime in Canada and probably in the USA as well. This "fellow" of the American Academy of Pediatrics should be kicked out for this outrageous argument!
I shall contact the AAP re garding this.

"almost certainly does interfere with sexual pleasure"

ALMOST? Removal of the clitoris is exactly akin to removal of the penis. Could a male POSSIBLY experience sexual pleasure without a penis entirely? (I suppose in a wet-dream type of scenario, assuming that the testicles were intact.)

This type of butchery is abominable. I suggest that we contact the AA of Pediatrics to complain about this butchery-advocate.

Anyone else willing?

john, post your letter and the contact info so that we can all join in!

Thanks, you ROCK ! ! !

I'm not very facile with computers (one finger type etc) but I went to goole "American Acadamy of Pediatrics" and found the email contact site for "polcy statements" and sent my concerns so it should be addressed now and if the above article IS by him then he will disciplined/ removed from the AAP.

Typical domestic violence abuser behavior, condition the victim to take total responsibility for their own abuse (so the abuser can get away with it). In Islam, the male and his ego are to be protected at any cost, including killing (and mutilating) women who challenge him. According to the Qur'an (chapter 4), wives are fields to be plowed as the man sees fit and captives of jihad can be sex slaves. Rape is thus sanctioned under Islam. So, women necessarily have to be conditioned to accept rape and to not expect sex to be a pleasant experience for them. So, they are mutilated to lessen the pleasure of sex for them (no doubt the scarring from rape continues that lessening). And, if sex is not pleasurable for women then perhaps they will not be as dissatisfied with a man's performance and deflate his fragile, macho ego. They will also be discouraged from seeking fulfillment elsewhere (although this is bogus as women typically seek affairs for the emotional attention, men for the sex) if sex with ANYONE is bland because they have been mutilated. Such is the sick and perverted reasons for FMG in Islam.

go to: Medical Boeard of caliphrnia. I too am not a computer person. but you can clearly see a coplait section. I am on the phone calling them now talking to them. 916-263-2382. I am on hold. she did not know what FGM was until I told her.
M

I am now being transfered to the enforcement dept. her name is sara peters.
M

Correction; please excuse my typing errors. The above comment should read the APP "will consider" disciplining and removing Dr Hatem Al-Haj from their rolls.(as I have no control over the AAP)

i just called ama. there is not much the can do. it is a state thing. 800-633-2322

John, to which email address did you send?

GUYS, I JUST FOUND OUT THAT THIS FREAK WORKS IN MINNESOTASTAN FOR THE MAYO CLINIC ! ! !

PLEASE JOIN ME IN CALLING AND WRITING TO PROTEST ! ! !

I'm on the phone right now - I'll get back to you all as soon as I have contact info.

Please call the main number:

1-507-284-2511

and ask for Public Affairs, Kim Drysdale of Chris Gade.

No email contact yet.

Still waiting to hear back from Mayo.

You can call the Medical Center where he works directly though:

1-507-373-2384

Ask for Virginia Larson at the Albert Lea, MN Medical Center.

Mayo - Rochester is getting back to me with contact info for the greater organization.

More going on at an activism site - will post later.

hi cgw! I just called this number and they do not have his name.
M

miriam, I'm having difficulty with them - they are not getting back to me in a timely manner.

Here's the guy's own website - check out his "qualifications".

Will you continue helping with this if I provide enough info? I'm on this - I'm not going to let it drop.

http://www.drhatemalhaj.com/about/

I'm considering contacting the State Police for an investigation since, as I've stated repeatedly here at JW, I have info that muslim doctors in this area have been performing FGM "under the table" to evade the potential complications from employing the usual razor-blade-at-home method and to evade prosecution by authorities. It's a dirty, nasty little business.

Can I count on you?

miriam, note from his info page:

Currently, Part-Time Attending Pediatrician, Mayo Clinic Health System – Albert Lea.

miriam:

Found him! His pen name is a pseudonym.

http://mayoclinichealthsystem.org/find-medical-staff-results

Please call about him using this name.

Thanks.

Leading U.S. Muslim jurist: Female genital mutilation an "honor" in Islam

How is it that Dr. Hatem al-Haj, a fellow at the American Academy of Pediatrics and a leading Muslim jurist, misunderstands Islamic law so severely as to think that this purely cultural practice has something to do with Islam?
...........................

**Oh my God**—this is an *American doctor*. Or, I should say, a Muslim doctor practicing in the United States, because there is noting *American* about the vile Dr. Hatem al-Haj, whose very name marks him as a pious Muslim who has made the Hadj to Mecca.

More:

Surely it can't be that the mainstream media and Islamic leaders in the U.S. have been lying to us, and FGM really is justified in Islam, could it? Naaah.
...........................

Muslims are becoming much bolder throughout the West. I know many Anti-Jihadists applaud their "honesty"—but it may be tht they are just feeling their strength to such an extent that many Muslims feel that the time for Taqiyya is past.

Or it may be that because Dr. Hatem al-Haj was writing in Arabic, he simply didn't believe that the Infidel would ever find out what he was advocating.

More:

The Hanafis: Al-Zayla’i said: “The general ruling is that circumcision is sunnah, and is one of the trademarks of Islam. In fact, if the people of Egypt or some land decided to abandon its practice, the Imam would make war against them, for it cannot be abandoned except by necessity...
...........................

Muslims are willing to *make war* in order to enforce the mutilation of girls. This is pretty clear...

That this vicious creep is a practicing pediatrician at the *prestigious Mayo Clinic* is just unbelievable. I wonder if he has performed illegal "under the table" mutilations of girls here?

He *needs to be removed*—from the clinic, from practicing, and—if possible—from the United States.

sorry cgw! I am in the 1950's technology! I just clicked on him on the link and II do not see him. can you kindly let me know how to do this?
M

This just in from Chris Gade at Mayo:

Hi – thanks for your note and phone call.

We are responding fully. We appreciate your outreach.

Thanks, Chris

PLEASE - ALL:

JOIN THIS EFFORT ! ! !

Extremely urgent and important:

http://www.change.org/petitions/fire-dr-hatem-elhagaly-and-revoke-his-certifications

I wrote "almost," CGW, for two reasons. If not all of the clitoris is removed sexual pleasure is still possible and because of that mystery zone called the "G spot," which would arguably not be affected by female circumcision. But look, these are gynecological (and Masters and Johnson) technicalities. I'm with you 100% that female circumcision to any extent is barbaric and should be condemned by any sensible human being. It's just the lawyer in me that is usually inclined to conditionalize things and refrain from absolutes. Take care.

I getcha, W, but [unfortunately] from the research I've done, USUAL practice is to not only remove part of the clitoris but to "dig it out, down to the bone". (Practitioners will insert a finger into the hole to make sure that they come in contact with bare bone.)

As for the "G" spot, although pleasurable, its stimulation is not responsible for orgasm - that's the domain of the clitoris alone.

Please consider signing the petition, my friend.

I'm on the warpath about this today and I'm going to post about it ad nauseum until I get results.

Very Best Regards to you and yours.

all right boys and girls! here is what it is. I just called and the head of the foundation is John Noseworthy
200 1st St. SW
Rochester, MN 55905
you could send him a leeter there.
M

I phoned the Minnesota State board of Medical Practioners, the licencing authority in Minnesota when I found a Sheik
Hatem Al-Hiaj listed in Minnesota and referrd them to the JIHAD WATCH web site. BUT they have no one with that name listed as being licensed in Minnesota as an MD.

CGW and Wellington,

The former writes "but [unfortunately] from the research I've done, USUAL practice is to not only remove part of the clitoris but to "dig it out, down to the bone"."

Remember, guys, the emendation by Mark Durie of the approved Muslim translation of The Reliance of the Traveler -- that manual of Islamic law certified by Al Azhar university.

The Islamically approved translation (by Nuh Ha Mim Keller, of Al-Azhar University) of the relevant passage on female circumcision reads:

"Circumcision is obligatory (O: for both men and women. For men it consists of removing the prepuce from the penis, and for women, removing the prepuce (Ar. bazr) of the clitoris (n: not the clitoris itself, as some mistakenly assert). (A: Hanbalis hold that circumcision of women is not obligatory but sunna, while Hanafis consider it a mere courtesy to the husband.)" -- 'Umdat al-Salik e4.3

Mark Durie objects to that insertion, which I have bolded, and maintains, knowing Arabic himself, that not only is no such mitigating stipulation implied in the text, it is actually a reversal of what the text says, which he renders thusly (bold emphasis added by me):

“Circumcision is obligatory (for every male and female) by cutting off the piece of skin on the glans of the penis of the male, but circumcision of the female is by cutting out the clitoris” (section e4.3).

See: http://www.andrewbostom.org/blog/2008/01/22/clarification-of-islamic-law-support-for-female-genital-mutilation-by-dr-mark-durie/

That aforementioned Muslim translator, Mr. Keller (no relation to the famous deaf and blind author and political activist Helen, one suspects), in his blatant taqiyya, was practicing jihad bil qalam ("Jihad of the Pen"), doing as much cruel damage to women as any rusty knife could do.

Isabellathecrusader still thinks this is a male Muslim problem.

"Hey Mamode, I suppose you're going to tell us that Muslim women demand to undergo FGM, just like they march in defense of and demand to wear the slave rag."

Actually, most FGM is inflicted on little girls by the elder women of the tribe -- mothers, grandmothers, and probably older sisters helping out, to hold down the screaming little girl while they cut, slice, hack and gouge with rusty knives, shards of glass, or whatever is to hand.

CGW

That petition names the doctor as "Hatem Elhagaly" whereas Spencer's article and the report from the blog Translating Jihad both spell it "Hatem al-Haj". This may be confusing for readers, as well as the officials we would be appealing to with this petition. (No doubt the two names are equivalent permutations of each other, as is typical of the Arabic language, where words and names seem to wriggle and convolute into each other like a swarming mass of serpents in intercopulation.)

One thing is can take away from this is that Islam is neutral on FGM, which means that pre Islamic practices in places such as Africa were permitted to continue and continue to this day

On the other hand, the most drastic form of FGM, infibulation, which some conservatives believe is sanctioned by Islam isn't sanctioned at all and is probably, at the very least, makruh - as this practice tends to create unsanitary conditions for the vagina, and in the words of Mo himself "isn't pleasing to the eye"

LL, I posted above that Al Haj is a pseudonym and gave a link to the correct name a couple of times.

His real name is Hatem Elhagaly.

Do you have any suggestions on how I can further clear this up for people? Perhaps Robert would agree to insert his real name in the above article.

Thanks for the above, BTW. I enjoy when you so helpfully flesh things out with super-accurate, factual info. It makes the picture so much clearer!

"a swarming mass of serpents in intercopulation"

My, I wish I had your way with words. Such vivid imagery. Kudos.

CGW, thanks for posting that petition!

I'm having an odd technical problem, though—while you can scroll down on the right side of the page, you can't scroll down on the petition itself. My screen isn't *that tiny*, but while I was able to fill out the petition, I couldn't send it.

Is anyone else having this problem?

CGW,

Thanks for your compliments. One thing that could be done is simply have the person who created the petition insert after his name ("AKA Al-Haj").

By the way, I signed the petition two hours ago, but my name does not show up on the list.

I believe that Wellington was talking about male circumcision, which is the removal of no more than the foreskin. His comment about penile cancer is that it seems to affect mostly the uncircumcised (although I suspect there are probably also unhygenic behaviors which may also contribute to it).

Many, many, many American males, Jewish or not, are circumcised for either religious or health reasons. It was pushed widely by the medical profession between the 1940's and 1970's, and encountered very little resistance. Since it is usually done shortly after birth, the trauma is something from which the vast majority recover; and I'm sure that you could find many a large family in America whose paterfamilias is circumcised (and not just among Brooklyn and Nawt Joysey Chassidim).

Indeed, the only medical criticism I have heard of male circumcision is that the foreskin may come in handy if its owner should suffer serious burns somewhere and require a skin graft.

But, for reasons you mention, female circumcision seems a nasty business.

CGW ….Helo

I have just signed the petition … thank you for bring it to our attention

This fake doctor should lose his fake right to heal people … this barbaric way to cleanse girls has to stop … it ruins the lives of these girls when they grow up …

I have read Ayaan's book"' Infidel"" and that is exactly what happen to her in Somalia … except she had to endure 2 weeks of pure pain when she was stitched closed except for a small opening to urinate, no pain killer was used …

her sister had to go through it twice because the wound opened …. poor girls … I cried when I read that part …

You do not know how mush I want that sleazy Muslim monster to put be put out of business

Thank you

I've heard from reliable sources that muslim doctors in MN are performing FGM "under the table" to avoid complications inherent in the razor-blade-at-home method and to evade prosecution by the authorities - and also for the money. Is this guy one of those?

You remarked:

"Very good - this article finally plugs in the holes about what the Malikis believe. Only thing missing is what do the various, or leading Shia schools have to say about it."

Question: did Ayatollah Khomeini discuss fgm anywhere?

If there was anybody thoroughly versed in the Shiite version of sharia, whose works are likely to have been translated into French and/ or English, it's Khomeini.

Shoutout to our resident Iranian apostate, 'miriam rove' - do you know, or can you find out for us, whether the late unlamented Khomeini, in his voluminous and frequently appalling discussions of the ins and outs of what is permitted in the area of sex, discuss fgm?

We know he just loooved little, little girls, and encouraged Shiite daddies to marry off said little girls as early as possible, preferably before puberty.

But did he think little girls ought to have their clitorises sliced out?

Grotesque. It is just one more pc of evidence to prove that Islam has no place in a modern society.

CGW, petition signed. 'Hope you are well.

BTW, where's Mamode? Interesting how he was so passionate on the Jessica Mokdad thread but appears to have avoided this one like the plague.

Look at what this Hatem al-Haj has published, among other things:

'A Manual for Gender Interactions' [probably translates to : A Manual for Gender Suppression]
'Women’s Role in Society' [if any]
'Islam encourages proliferation and protects children' [I kid you not]

http://www.drhatemalhaj.com/about/

Guys, aside from the petition, there's a new link for Mayo, who employs him. here's the Latest response from Chris gade, public Affairs at the Mayo Clinic:


Thanks for your comments/questions. Mayo Clinic is actively investigating the concerns raised. We cannot share further details.

Please direct further correspondence to rstpublicaffairs@mayo.edu.

Thanks, Steffen. If it's not too much trouble, could you send an email to Mayo at the above address pointing out your concern about those articles?

CGW, I was able to sign the petition! Unfortunately, I had to forgo including a personal message, but that is a minor point.

Kudos to you for getting the word out!

And I'll be contacting the Mayo Clinic about the appalling Dr. Hatem al-Haj, as well. (Really, if one was *trying* to come up with a name for a Muslim villain, one couldn't do better than this...)

Dumbledore's Army wrote:

Question: did Ayatollah Khomeini discuss fgm anywhere?
..................................

I haven't found anything in his writings that specifically addresses FGM. Most of the cases of FGM in Iran seem to be in Sunni areas.

I don't claim this to be completely definitive, but it appears FGM may have been one of the *very few* abuses of girls and women that the vile Ayatollah Khomeini *did not* specifically condone.

At least one high-ranking Iranian cleric, Grand Ayatollah Seyyed Hossein Fazlollah, declared FGM to be "Jahiillya".

Still, "marrying" children as young a nine, "thighing" baby girls, and raping virgin girls scheduled for execution is all perfectly Islamic, so it's not as though the Ayatollahs are exactly "women's rights activists". It seems to be more yet another Sunni / Shi'ite bone of contention.

And it certainly doesn't appear that Iran has done much to end the practice there. Surprise, surprise.

http://www.gozaar.org/english/articles-en/Female-Circumcision-Elegy-for-a-Dream.html

Thanks, graven. When you contact Mayo, use his legal name (on the petition). Al Haj is a pseudonym.

I'd appreciate you forwarding the email I'm going to send you to friends as well. Every signature generates 6 new emails to inboxes.

CGW -- did you see my post where I told you I signed the petition, but still cannot see my name on the petition page?

CGW

Well in my situation … I am afraid if I invite my friends [ which most of them Muslims] on Facebook I will be completely out of the closet for becoming an ex Muslim …

So far my immediate family have known … but not my extended family and friends here and back home …

I am limited to how far I could reach to invite people to sign the petition

any way … I will try to tell people personally or may be print it and distribute them and tell the cause to people I do not know …

Do you know what answer I get if I told people about this fake Muslim Doctor … they say all lies '' It is all jews propaganda to defame Islam and Muslims ''

Muslim Zombies

Yes, LL, I did. I'm going to ask the person who put up the petition whether or not all names are visible to her. It seems to me that there is always a display of only the last 10 names, and the average person cannot access hidden names. gravenimage initially had trouble signing - perhaps you could try again and see if it takes? In any event, i am tremendously grateful for your support. Do you have any friends that you could convince to sign? Each signature generates a flurry of protestational(?) emails to recipients.

Of course I understand, fineliving56, and I am completely grateful for your signature. Thank you for being brave. You could encourage people on whichever anti-islam forums you visit, if you would. But just the fact that you stood up for these poor little girls is commendable.

There is a large Somali community where this guy "practices", and I wonder whether or not he is one of those muslim doctors performing FGM "under the table". Ninety-eight per cent (98%) of Somali women have undergone the procedure. Who else is doing it statewide? (He is Egyptian - 90% of Egyptian women undergo the procedure, the same percentage as the muslim population.)

I have asked the MN Bureau of Criminal Apprehension and the MN Attorney General to investigate this case. No response thus far. I'll keep you posted.

LemonLime, she said to message her through the link on that page and she can download and print out a list of names and get back to you, but she can't just check it online.

I've signed the petition CGW. Hatem Elhagaly. Hate 'm he does - women and girls, that is.

It would be a coup if somehow, Elhagaly gets MSM attention - even if he is depicted as being singled out for being a Muslim, there is no way now that he can claim say that FGM in not Islamic. He has implicated himself.

Thanks for signing.

Various news outlets have been contacted, but I don't hold out too much hope that any of them will pick up the story.

Hi ala sux.

You said "This same type of crisis for muslims in Canada wanting the FMG legal has been gone unchecked because the Liberal white-guilt has lowered the bar for msulims as if THOSE-people are like that and can't help but be misogynistic and oppressive.

Doctors in Canada also fear opposing Shariah for fear of attacks or having their Clinic's bombed by terrorists.

Muslim now know that Terrorism works ."


What are you talking about this time ala sux?

It better not be about FGM in Canada. It is illegal for a doctor to perform any FGM related surgery in Canada except corrective surgery.

It is considered child assault and is prohibited under sections 267 and 268 of the Criminal Code of Canada. Section 267 deals with assault causing bodily harm and section 268 covers aggravated assault which includes wounding, maiming and disfiguring.

Doctors are required under law to report cases of FMG in cases of minors. Is is also the policy of the Canadian Medical Association to report such infractions. Failure to do so can result in the loss of a doctor's medical license.

http://www.huffingtonpost.ca/2012/02/21/genital-mutilation-canada-doctors_n_1292279.html

Also, what is this fear you are talking about. I worked in a hospital clinic for 5 years and saw no such fear. The clinic for which I worked even hired Muslim doctors from the Middle East. The clinic for which I worked is known around the world for providing top notch training to doctors specializing in liver disease.

If you have factual evidence to support your claims please provide it.

It would also be nice if you would clarify "Muslim now know that terrorism works."

Was there a Canadian medical clinic that was bombed recently? To what terrorist act in Canada are you referring? The closest thing I can think of is the bomb threat that delayed the Shafia honour killing trial at the end of January this year.


Islam has never respected women or their bodies - Islam is way more anti-female than Christianity - Islam is just another "Good old boys network" like the Roman catholic Church

Oh, and Muslims NEED to be banned from practicing medicine in the United States. ALL of them.

I find it unlikely that they could not find a muslim male attorney to take the case. That would have solved a whole host of problems.

Since muslim males consider females to be "deficient in intelligence" (as per their SCRIPTURES) the offenders can later claim incompetent counsel on that basis alone. Add that to the fact that they are also forbidden from associating with Infidels, and the whole issue becomes clouded.

I'd like to hear the opinion of so-called muslim "jurists" regarding the above.

Sorry, that post was meant for another thread.

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