Sam Harris: "I am not proposing a mere correlation between extremist Islam and suicidal terrorism. I am claiming that the relationship is causal."

Because the conclusion - that is it Islam itself that is evil - is something they do not want to hear. so it becomes an exercise in overt denial. The problem is "extremists" (and ALL religions are plagued by that, right???) and not Islam itself.

It's as if one wanted to make the case that Nazism was just benign German nationalism and pride, but got "hijacked" by a few "extremists."

Islam_Macht_Frei:
It's as if one wanted to make the case that Nazism was just benign German nationalism and pride, but got "hijacked" by a few "extremists."

Good analogy!
We all know that Hitler really loved Jews and what he said about them in Mein Kampf was taken out of context by a few radicals in the Nazi party.

I said "benign" - of course nationalism and pride can also be ugly malignancies, as they were in Nazi Germany.

Sam Harris, famous as an articulate and rational atheist, offers special criticism for Islam. He is no enabler of it.

As for Obama, I have to disagree with Robert and other bloggers here - while Obama may naively regard Islam as a "great religion" or some such claptrap, he is no worse than other US politicians (Bush etc) in this respect and he has drawn a line on a nuclear Iran and continues drone strikes in Pakistan. He got us out of the sewer in Iraq with Afghanistan to follow. All fine with me. Not to mention OBL, who now sleeps with the fishes.

Obama is no friend of Islam, even if he could be a much stronger foe.

"Obama is no friend of Islam, even if he could be a much stronger foe. "

Correction: Obama is no friend of a tiny, eensy-weensy Minority of Extremists Who Are Hijacking The Great and Noble Religion of Peace Which Has Given Science To the World and Whose Hauntingly Beautiful Azhan Call to Prayer Still Gives Him Goosebumps of Awe and Admiration.

Obama is very cleverly planning and executing surgical strikes with drones and a commando mission or two on this eensy-weensy Minority, meanwhile he drones on at length (as at Cairo or in Istanbul) to Muslim audiences televised to the world how wonderful Islam itself is and how equivalently worse the West is (a paradox only the PC MC can manage to juggle in mid-air).

I.e., Obama is, with laser-like precision, assassinating a few of the Bad Cops, while otherwise massively enabling, nourishing and supporting the far more numerous Good Cops and their grand infiltration of our society.

This by itself doesn't terribly distinguish him from a Bush or a McCain or a Romney, et al. What does distinguish him is his deeper, darker hatred of America, which augurs ill for his ultimate motives.

I see you fired up the old random phrase generator again...you sure seem to like that thing..

I watched the entire nine minutes, fifty-eight seconds which you provided the link for. Yes, I listened to Dr. Zakir Naik for his almost ten minute speech. Wow. The guy played word games with words like "fundamentalist" and "terrorist." And you think this guy is enlightened? Pathetic.

Look, the vast majority of those who post here regularly are way beyond what you think passes for truth. If you can't do any better than the link you provided above, give it up. No wonder Robert Spencer ignores you. He's light years ahead of you. After all, why waste time with the completely ignorant. The half-ignorant maybe, but the completely ignorant, what the hell is the point? Perhaps you could graduate to half-ignorant status if you really applied yourself. Then maybe Robert Spencer might reply to you. Go for it.

zakir naik is an islamic supremacist a**hole, nothing more, nothing less. One might as well listen to a donkey bray than listen to this islamic idiot.

All Muslims are liars and hypocrites and that sums up Rauf and all other Muslims' behavior!!

D, Have you heard of Occam’s razor?
In other words, have you considered the most obvious possibility that the reason R. Spencer is “not replying to a single of your posts” is because he can’t be bothered talking to an idiot? If you haven’t considered it this proves you must be one.

And then you “hope everyone ignores the BULL CRAP Robert Spencer is spouting and watch Dr Zakir Naiki lecture” instead. Well, not surprising. Idiots tend to cherish idiotic hopes.

The only violence Spencer does with his writings, lectures and debates is to the fictions, falsehoods and fairy tales of Islamic supremacism. Perhaps the hatred and violence you wrongly accuse him of intentionally inspiring toward Moslems is a projection of your feelings toward him.

BTW, I once suggested to Danios of Loonwatch who for years has been fruitlessly challenging Spencer to a debate that posting critical comments on this site might be a way to provoke him. I don't know if D is Danios. But as a last resort I imagined him doing it.

"He [Sam Harris's detractor] suggests that intuition is nothing to base security on."

When you have a population of 1.2 billion spread out across the world in nearly every nation on Earth, and increasingly infiltrating and amassing throughout the West -- a population out of which pullulates the metastasizing terrorists who base their mass-murderous fanaticism on the same Islam that animates and inspires those 1.2 billion, then there is a level on which we only have intuition on which to base our security; and there are two types of intuition in this regard:

1) the intuition that the danger of terrorism is not systemic, but limited to a tiny minority of extremists, whose distinction from the mass of the majority of Muslims around the world is solidified by an intuitively believed wall;

2) the intuition that the danger of terrorism is in fact systemic throughout Islamic societies, and that the crucial aspect of this presents as a problem of our inability to tell the difference between putatively harmless Muslims and the deadly Muslims from whom it is our security's #1 job to protect our societies.

Which of the two types of intuition are you going to choose? There is no third alternative, no magical key that can identify with sufficient reliability which Muslim is harmless and which is deadly. And there are mountain ranges of data -- of which Mt. Jihad Watch is merely one mountain (and it's damning enough) -- to indicate that the second intuition is the more accurate inference.

I know I care enough about the safety of our societies not to play Muslim Roulette. I go for Door #2; even if the prettier hand model stands alluringly by Door #1.

Me too.

He made his points really well, and what everyone keeps missing (as well as Bruce S.) is that his argument was that the TSA wastes time, money and is needlessly invasive in its searches of what common sense dictates are harmless people.

And it does.

ApolloSpeaks,

Spencer actually accepted a debate with Danios, who backed out:

UPDATE: "Danios of Loonwatch," a purveyor of pretentious puffery at the Islamic supremacist hate site Loonwatch, saw this post and, after several days, finally got around to acknowledging that I had actually accepted his debate challenge. Then, however, consistent with his previous cowardice, he made a number of demands and stipulations. He wanted to make the debate center on the flimsy, windy and irrelevant tu quoque arguments he advances at his hate site. I countered with other proposals. Rather than continue the discussion and negotiation, however, he retreated and resumed his smears. Apparently I was supposed to play the compliant dhimmi and accept all his proposals without question. Not surprising.

And still it remains so: Leftist and Islamic supremacist enemies of freedom fear to debate me, not because I am such a formidable debater, but because I tell the truth, and they know it. Defamation is all they have, since they can't counter the truths I tell.

http://www.jihadwatch.org/2012/01/why-cant-muslims-debate-again.html

“I hope everyone ignores the BULL CRAP Robert Spencer is spouting and watch Dr Zakir Naik's lecture on Terrorism and Jihad:”

I watch Dr Zakkir Naik’s lecture, jus’ like you say, D.

I watch audience falling asleep during lecture.

Why dey so drowsy during terrorism lecture, D?

Dey wake up some when Dr. Z talk bout Muslims terrorizing “anti social elements”.

Whaz up wid dat, D?

Do we Infidels be “anti social elements”?

More wild, swinging punches threshing the air from D.

C'mon D, give us one example, just one, which proves your false accusation that Robert Spencer's "..site's main goals are to spread hatred and encourage violence against Muslims."

To spread awareness of Islam's violent ideology of jihad, yes, but to incite hatred against 1.5 billion people enslaved by Islam, no.

You're a clown!

You wrote: 'Hitler thought that the end justified the means, and one of those means to the end of ridding Germany of leftist cancer was the extermination of all Jews - most of which were leftist.'

Just one massive gap in your 'logic'. Hitler was a Socialist. Remember, the Nazi Socialist Party. The Left talk airily about the Nazis as the 'extreme right'. Nonsense, Hitler was a Socialist!

Back to your racist drawing board, Nykos! Clown!

I noticed it, dumbles. You are right on target as usual, calling him out and calling everyone’s attention to it.

Not only do we have Islamists and leftists here, every once in awhile a stray Nazi sneaks in.

As I have said before, there are excellent reasons for America always maintaining the capability of fighting a two front war.

RON B: DANIOS

Wasn't aware of it. So what it boils down to is this:

Danios the Bold, the tireless defender of Islam from Islamophobic loons and goons, proves in the end to be a big mouth Moslem girlie man bringing dishonor and shame on his God, the prophet and Koranic faith.

BTW, I've noticed that since January Danios's output on Loonwatch has dramatically decreased; he's posted less than a handful of articles. I guess after punking out with Spencer the less seen the better.

D:

Are you the same D who posted the link to the article on the differences between sharia law and the US constitution?

If so, are you schizophrenic? Or perhaps you suffer from multiple personality disorder?

As far as I can figure out, we have had three entirely different posters each manifesting as a 'D'.

Each is a completely different poster.

One is a sensible member of the Resistance; one is a Nazi; one is a Mohammedan.

One of them - the Mohammedan, when accused of being the Nazi, ironically enough - claimed that 'D' was what happened when he posted using google. Or something like that.

I would advise the sane Islamoresistant 'D' to use a distinctive nom de plume *within* his postings, whenever he posts, so as to reduce the confusion. Or else to sign in using a different method, so as to manifest with a proper - and distinctive - nom de plume.

Don't forget V33:50 - allowing Muslims to take female prisoners of war as sex slaves.

O Prophet, We have made lawful for thee thy wives whom thou hast given their wages and what thy right hand owns, spoils of war that God has given thee, and the daughters of thy uncles paternal and aunts paternal, thy uncles maternal and aunts maternal, who have emigrated with thee, and any woman believer, if she give herself to the Prophet and if the Prophet desire to take her in marriage, for thee exclusively, apart from the believers -- We know what We have imposed upon them touching their wives and what their right hands own -- that there may be no fault in thee; God is All-forgiving, All-compassionate.

I can imagine how this verse shaped the Pakistani "British" culture that bred those perverted rape gangs preying on infidel females.

Yes I'm also "D", I'm David in Australia & on your side, this other D is an embarassment. I'll have to start signing off as David to distinguish myself from the other fool.

"The term "extremist" unnecessarily qualifies "Islam," and is redundant. I'm disappointed that Harris fell for that one."

I would have been stunned and fallen into paroxysms of spastic shock, knocking over furniture left and right, until emergency care was called and a doctor ordered my condition to be alleviated by massive intravenous dosea of Ativan STAT, had Sam Harris not shown any such signs of the nearly universal disease of PC MC.

"Actually Sam Harris does mean ALL of Islam. If you've seen as much of his interviews (like with Bill O'Reilly) and lectures as I have, then you'd know that as well."

First of all, Harris does use the locution "extremist Islam" in his first paragraph. Then we do see him speaking merely of "Islam" without qualifier in a couple of places in the rest of his response. The question is: which is synechdocal for the other? A similar question arose with regard to Brigitte Gabriel way back in 2008, whom one would think is less vulnerable to the PC MC virus than the more mainstream Harris (his iiberalish and science-minded proclivities also augur ill for his resistance to the virus), where she literally salted and peppered an essay about the problem with various paddings of qualifiers, where what we need more than ever now is rhetoric that is ruthlessly straight no chaser about Islam FULL STOP and Muslims FULL STOP. (And, if one wants to go the extra mile and actually add opposite qualifiers (like "mainstream Islam" and "ordinary garden-variety Muslims"), that would be mighty swell and appreciated.)

Also, given Harris's unacceptable retardation on the Learning Curve about the problem of Islam, having woke up what, in 2007 or something? (unacceptable, given his intelligence), it is more likely he has that deep need which is so prevalent in our PC-MC-saturated Western culture to cushion Islam, and to cushion all Muslims, from the aweful consequences of the logical conclusion about which their own data, churning grotesquely out by the minute with blood and carnage and fanatical hatred and supremacism, screams for dot-connection -- cushions which are really calculated, ultimately, to save ourselves from our irrational fear of ourselves "going down the slippery slope" to "genocide" against Brown People.

Anywhoosits, if you, fitna, have some evidence for your claim that Sam Harris "means Islam" straight no chaser, I'd appreciate your providing it so I may review it and become persuaded. A vague allusion to your perception of his interviews and lectures is not adequate for that purpose.

Fitna,

I have just read your comment and proceeded directly to LemonLime’s reply to it. I think he addresses your disagreement with my dismissal of S. Harris exhaustively and eloquently, and although there may be a thing or two I could add, I first need to recover after 12 hours sailing tour.

It is past 10 pm here (Copenhagen), and although I usually have no problem staying awake well past midnight I simply couldn’t manage it today.

Cheers,

Thomas

Thanks for the explanation! Thought I was going senile or something.

denimman,

Please do relax. By "call again" I mean "try again" (when you have something interesting to say.
Sam Harris is a cautious bore - very much like Daniel Pipes, who thinks, or at least says, that moderate Islam is a solution to the problem of radical Islam. Well, goodnight now.

"Sam Harris is a cautious bore - very much like Daniel Pipes..."

More or less, it seems (though I am still open to changing my mind upon the proffering of that strange thing called "evidence").

There must be a scientific law analogous to this peculiar -- though, alas, all too common -- phenomenon: whereby a mainstream individual's tepid, gingerly, pallid, lukewarm, meticulously eggshell-avoiding "condemnation" of Islam becomes transformed (even in the ears of many Jihad Watchers) into a bold denunciation deserving the highest praise coupled with scolding rebukes to any who would dare question it.

Are we still, over 10 years after the grotesquely obscene atrocity of 911, that desperate for crumbs from the Mainstream Diners at whose boots and knees we cringe down below amongst the Mainstream Table Legs?

"Hitler was a NATIONAL Socialist, emphasis on the NATIONAL. He was more of a patriot than the slimy, suicidal Republicans..."

Hitler's "nationalism" was about as "national" as Nasser's or Saddam's or Khaddafi's. I.e., it masked a trans-national supremacist expansionism bent on the conquest of a world in his paranoid fantasy perennially inimical to him (which, in reality, became inimical to him only because he provoked them repeatedly and outrageously -- just as Muslims are constantly "offended" and "defending" themselves from the peoples all around them they repeatedly and outrageously attack).

That's not the nationalism of a people simply standing up for the house and property, so to speak, of their country.

“I bet there are more than a few posters here who would have no trouble if the same happened to Muslims today. After all, the world would be a better place without Muslims, right? - I hope we can agree on that.”

No agreement, and no quarter to you AND your Nazi bullshit nykos.

What we can all agree on is that Islam and by extension, Muslims, are are the enemy of freedom.

Apparently, YOU seem to think that this means people who round up masses of humanity including women and children and murder them (Nazis) are our friends – or at least we should adopt their methods.

Brutal totalitarians come in all shapes sizes and colors. ALL must be fought, by honest men, if they would be free. Muslims, by their ideology and actions, have made the “enemies of freedom” list. And so it seems, YOU also, are contending for a spot on that list by your open advocacy of a Nazi style holocaust – welcome to the club, blood sucker.

"Actually I think Sam Harris's solution to radical Islam is no Islam at all."

That's not a solution; it's a hypothetical goal allegedly advocated -- with zero mention of how to get there (perhaps a magic wand...?).

"That's not a solution; it's a hypothetical goal allegedly advocated -- with zero mention of how to get there (perhaps a magic wand...?)."

Yep, exactly why Sam Harris is mostly boring.

Not only does he want to use his magic wand on Islam, he wants to use it on all the rest of the religions also. A non solution to a non problem, solved by a fantasy.

I don't think Typekey allows multiple e-mail logins to have the same ID. In my early days here, I tried using just the name 'Infidel' to tie w/ my login, and was told that it was already taken.

Of course, if Typekey has since changed, that would be different.

nykos wrote, replying to Islam Macht Frei:

"It's as if one wanted to make the case that Nazism was just benign German nationalism and pride, but got "hijacked" by a few "extremists.""

Nazism did mean nationalism and pride, something which most diaspora Jews found (and still find, given most Jews in the US voted for Obama) abhorrent. Most Jews today are very leftist, and in Hitler's day even more of them were. The Holocaust did not happen in a vacuum, but as a consequence of Jewish leftism. Hitler thought that the end justified the means, and one of those means to the end of ridding Germany of leftist cancer was the extermination of all Jews - most of which were leftist.
...................................

What absolute, repulsive crap. The virulent, genocidal antisemitism of the Holocaust mentioned Jewish leftists only occasionally. The genocidal Jew-hatred was far more existential than that.

In fact, the most common reason given for the mass murder was not ideological, but was "racial purity". This explains why Gypsies and Slavs were also targeted by the Nazis for liquidation.

And it sounds as though you are calling for a second Holocaust here—which places you in bed with the Jihadists.

By the way, the utter tone-deafness of replying to a poster with the username "Islam Macht Frei"—which explicitly links the barbarism of the Holocaust with the barbarism of Islam—is quite notable, as well. The infamous sign over the main gates of Auschwitz read "Arbeit Macht Frei".

More, replying to Dumbledore's Army:

"I don't know whether the rest of you noticed this, but the poster calling himself 'nykos', in his posting above, essentially claimed that all the Jews of Europe, all six million murdered people, were primarily responsible for the Shoah"

Try some reading comprehension lessons sometime, OK? I said that the LEFTIST Jews and their anti-German, communist militancy were the cause for the tragedy that came upon ALL Jews.
...................................

Notice nykos' use of the passive voice, as though the existence of some leftist Jews led inexorably to the butchery of *six million Jews* through no human agency.

The fact is, it is clear that DDA understands *all too well* what you were saying.

More:

If you believe that the ends justify the means and collectivism - like Hitler, that's the solution: kill them all. I bet there are more than a few posters here who would have no trouble if the same happened to Muslims today. After all, the world would be a better place without Muslims, right? - I hope we can agree on that
...................................

Sick. Decent Infidels are concerned about the threat *from* aggressive Islam. To imply a concern *about* genocidal savagery—Jihad—is the moral equivalent *of* genocidal savagery is grotesque beyond words.

More, replying to Buraq:

"Just one massive gap in your 'logic'. Hitler was a Socialist. Remember, the Nazi Socialist Party. The Left talk airily about the Nazis as the 'extreme right'. Nonsense, Hitler was a Socialist!"

Hitler was a NATIONAL Socialist, emphasis on the NATIONAL. He was more of a patriot than the slimy, suicidal Republicans...
...................................

Excuse me—**are you insane**? Hitler was no "patriot"—even leaving aside his aggression toward his neighbors, his vision for civilized Germany itself was murderously ugly..

I would support *any* Republican—and yes, I am fully aware of how bad they can get—if the alternative were *Adolph Hitler*—and so would pretty much everyone else here, I imagine.

Dumbledore's Army, Buraq, LemonLime, and Davegreybeard have called you on your Fascist bullsh*t, and you can add my name to the list.

"D" wrote:

What a coward Spencer is, posting away his retarded thread, not replying to a single of my posts. This guy needs to br tries for Islamophobia and hate speech his site's main goals are to spread hatred and encourage violence against Muslims.
...............................

What crap. Robert Spencer is not obligated to respond to any poster here. He keeps the comments section open as a courtesy.

And note: this Muslim wants to see Spencer *tried* for his entirely factual statements. This is straight Shari'ah, where no one—infidels least of all—is allowed any criticism of Islam or Muslims.

And his claim that Jihad Watch, in reporting violence *by* Muslims, is encouraging violence against Muslims is just false. Robert Spencer has *never* called for violence against Muslims.

More:

I hope everyone ignores the BULL CRAP Robert Spencer is spouting and watch Dr Zakir Naik's lecture on Terrorism and Jihad: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5N-6XHlLDmE
...............................

Why do you assume that JW readers are not aware of Zakir Naik's tedious Taqiyya? This has been floating around for at least four years now, and was just a tired retread of Muslim apologia at the time.

You can find more here:

http://www.institutealislam.com/islam-and-terrorism-by-dr-zakir-naik/

Naik reiterates such bs as the claim that "Islam means peace"—actually, it means "submission"—and the claim that Islam itself was the 'real victim' of 9/11, since Infidels have "misconceptions" about Islam being violent.

We are supposed to ignore the avalanche of Islamic atrocities all over the world just since 9/11, and believe that the true meaning of Jihad terror is...crime-fighting. Ridiculous.

Most Jews in Europe were unpatriotic and "anti-German"? No.

Most of the Jewish people in Europe who were not impoverished peasants, such as most German Jewish people, were fervently patriotic to the countries of their birth -- especially German Jewish people. That's why most Jewish people in Germany refused to leave Germany, and refused to believe that their Christian European German neighbors and Christian European German so-called "friends" would do to them what their Christian European German neighbors and Christian European German so-called "friends" eventually did to them.

Most Jews in Europe were "Leftist"? No.

Most of the Jewish people in Europe who were not impoverished peasants were classically liberal (classically liberal like Mark Twain (Samuel Clemens) (who was not Jewish)), and most of the Jewish people in Europe and Russia who were impoverished peasants were mainly just concerned about where their next meal was coming from, and about the reality of their being hated by, and about the reality of the constant possibility of their being murdered by, the members of the Christian European huge majority population of the country where they were born.

It's largely because of the expressing of perverse malicious bigoted wrong views about the Jewish people that people such as yourself have expressed that very many Jewish people in the U.S. refuse to look into the (classically liberal) actual ideas of the general contemporary "Conservative" political movement in the U.S.

For the past two thousand years, ethnically European, culturally Christian-European, people, in accordance with the religious ideology that they have held, the religion Christianity, have continuously held ideological perverse racist wrong views about the Jewish people, and have continuously falsely accused the Jewish people of horrific fictitious crimes, and have repeatedly mass-murdered the Jewish people, and have continuously made and enforced persecutorial unjust laws against the Jewish people, and have continuously expressed perverse intransigent contempt toward the Jewish people (expressed as: "I know you're guilty, you lying Jew/''Christ'-killer'/'Capitalist'/'Bolshevik'/'rootless cosmopolitan'/'Zionist'/Israeli"). And approximately seventy years ago, culturally Christian-European, Christian and post-Christian, European people, and the culturally Christian-European, Christian and post-Christian, world, as a whole, in some cases murdered, and in other cases, allowed to be murdered, almost all of the Jewish people in Europe.

Approximately seventy years ago, the vast majority of Germans -- the most "educated", and supposedly most "civilized" culturally Christian-European people in the world at that time, believed in Adolf Hitler, and supported Adolf Hitler, and complied with, and participated in, the murder of their Jewish fellow citizens of their country. And, now, most ethnically European, culturally Christian-European, Christian and post-Christian, people don't even actually care about that fact, and, moreover, most ethnically European, culturally Christian-European, Christian and post-Christian, people now, to protect the holding of the ego-worshipping, ego-protecting, self-identity wrong view that they hold, and to protect the perverse antipathetic racist wrong views that they resultantly hold about the Jewish people, even want to believe that fact to not be true, and even deny that fact, and, as part of doing that, even propagate vicious perverse intendedly genocidal racist libels against the Jewish people -- as culturally European people -- pre-Christian European (Greek and Roman), and culturally Christian-European, Christian and post-Christian, people -- have done for the past several thousand years.

It's largely because of Jewish people being psychologically besieged and overwhelmed by the vicious anti-Jewish racism that has been a deeply engrained part of European culture for several thousand years that some Jewish people -- Jewish people who are people of no integrity -- and who, as a result of that, have completely succumbed to Stockholm syndrome -- Jewish people such as Paul (Sol) of Tarsus (the ethnically Jewish inventor of the religion Christianity (a religious ideology which, in tenets of the that religious ideology, perversely cosmically libels and vilifies an actual living group of people -- the Jewish people -- the people whose ancestral religion, and whose cultural narrative, and even whose cultural identity, the religion Christianity utterly usurped)), and Theobald of Cambridge (the ethnically Jewish Christian convert who invented the murder-and-cannibalism-of-Christian-European-children libel (the "Blood Libel") that Christian European people propagated against the Jewish people for several hundred years), and Karl Marx (the ethnically Jewish-German, racist genocidally anti-Jewish, inventor of culturally Christian-European, post-Christian, modern totalitarianism (who was the son of an ethnically Jewish Christian convert)), and Noam Chomsky (an ethnically Jewish one of the most prominent "Leftist" propagators of libels against the liberal democratic, intendedly genocidally besieged, intendedly genocidally libeled, recently re-founded, very small nation of the Jewish people) -- have become anti-Jewish racists and have developed and propagated vicious perverse sanctimonious mutually contradicting racist anti-Jewish ideologies that have been widely adopted by, and further perversely modified by, and widely propagated by, ethnically European people.

The very many people such as yourself (including very many Muslims) are fortunate that Jewish people are not like the very many people such as yourself (including very many Muslims), and you, and the very many people such as yourself (including very many Muslims), know that. If Jewish people were like the very many people such as yourself (including very many Muslims), you would not dare to express the vicious evil perverse lies that you have expressed against the Jewish people.

"Western" culture -- the liberal democratic culture of culturally Christian-European, post-Christian, societies -- is based on the beneficial moral principals of Jewish culture. "Western" culture -- the liberal democratic culture of culturally Christian-European, post-Christian, societies -- is Jewish culture. However, most culturally Christian-European, Christian and post-Christian, people, in feeling the racist antipathy that they feel toward the Jewish people, perversely, even resent that fact, and, perversely, even wish to deny that fact, and, perversely, even try to deny that fact.

However, it's a comfort to me that there are at least some people in this world who are culturally Christian-European who are not evil vicious imbecilic ego-worshipping hypocrites. That is: it's a comfort to me that there are at least some people in this world, such as many of the people on this forum, who are culturally Christian-European, Christian and post-Christian, who are not anti-Jewish racists.

However, I don't carry water for the evil perverse sanctimonious ego-worshipping, ego-protecting, ego-projecting, racist ideology Christianity.

However, I verbally defend, and wish the best for, all people who are Christian in the Middle East who are under siege from Islam.

I, like almost all other Jewish people, forgive those who do evil. However, I, unlike very many other Jewish people, don't coweringly bow toward evil that I see being done, in front of me, to my fellow human beings who are Jewish.

Every living being experiences, in their current birth, or in a future birth, the results of their own actions.

I apologize to everyone if my harsh stating of these truths is unskillful and unbeneficial. However, I am distressed and overwhelmed, and I feel compelled to state these truths, and I am stating these truths while being distressed and overwhelmed. I am only human. Just like all of my fellow human beings who are Jewish. And just like all of my fellow human beings who are not Jewish. I hope that all of my fellow human beings will understand that.

”And approximately seventy years ago, culturally Christian-European, Christian and post-Christian, European people, and the culturally Christian-European, Christian and post-Christian, world, as a whole, in some cases murdered, and in other cases, allowed to be murdered, almost all of the Jewish people in Europe.”

“And, now, most And, now, most ethnically European, culturally Christian-European, Christian and post-Christian, people don't even actually care about that fact, and, moreover, most ethnically European, culturally Christian-European, Christian and post-Christian, people now, to protect the holding of the ego-worshipping, ego-protecting, self-identity wrong view that they hold, and to protect the perverse antipathetic racist wrong views that they resultantly hold about the Jewish people, even want to believe that fact to not be true, and even deny that fact, and, as part of doing that, even propagate vicious perverse intendedly genocidal racist libels against the Jewish people -- as culturally European people -- pre-Christian European (Greek and Roman), and culturally Christian-European, Christian and post-Christian, people -- have done for the past several thousand years.

Well, I see that you don’t care much for Christians, and you really don’t have time for periods.

I’m an American Daniel, you know, the folks who fought and bled and died to save Europe from itself, TWICE.

And yep, we would be some ‘o them “European, culturally Christian-European, Christian and post-Christian, people” that you been ranting about. There is more to the world than Europe, and more to Christian ideology than what happened there.

Try to take a broader view, Daniel – and a deep breath once in a while.

The main thing is how the West (journalists, governments, academics, so-called "human rights organizations", populations who are believing lies) is treating/viewing (libeling and holding pre-conditioned racist bigoted antipathetic wrong views about) Israel.

It's that that's causing the Western collusion with the Islamic supremacist political movement. I've explained this more in the second one of my previous comments that I posted on this post.

And it's that that's a result of the deeply engrained anti-Jewish bigotry that is a deeply engrained (normal, "taken for granted" (and, therein, "invisible")) part of Western culture -- which is a legacy of Christian anti-Jewish racism which is held as tenets of the religion Christianity. But from where that bigotry comes from is, in itself, not the main point. The main point is how the West is treating/viewing Israel, and how that is causing the West to be colluding with the Islamic supremacist political movement -- and that is being caused by that bigotry.

Of course I know that many devout Christians (especially American devout Christians) are now defending Israel and the Jewish people (and that some of them are doing so for the right reasons -- moral ethical reasons) and that they don't hold antipathetic views about Israel and the Jewish people -- and I appreciate that. And of course I know that many American culturally Christian-European people (and, I think, many Canadian culturally Christian-European people, and, I think, some Australian, culturally Christian-European people) hold sympathetic views about Israel, and of course I know that most American culturally Christian-European people (and, I think, most Canadian culturally Christian-European people, and, I think, some Australian, culturally Christian-European people) don't hold severely antipathetic views about Jewish people -- and I appreciate that very much. But that factor is not the main point -- but that factor is an important factor that is good that can be part of making the situation better. The main point -- the main thing -- is how the West is treating Israel.