Leftist film producer Tommi Trudeau joins Nonie Darwish and Evan Sayet on the gang “” and voices a curious prediction.
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If China ever wanted to crush Islam, they’d have done it! To an extent, they have – like in Tibet, they’ve flooded Xinxiang w/ Han Chinese, and made the Uyghars a minority out there. Unlike the Soviets, for whom Russians weren’t the most preferred people, the Chinese have no problems w/ Han domination.
However, the Chinese have been squarely on the same side as Russia on issues such as Iran, Syria, and they’ve even been a long term ally of Pakistan against India. Some of that may have cooled down due to the Jihadi connections of Uyghars in Afghanistan, but Beijing knows that it has good control of Islamabad – why let that go?
Only thing I can imagine – if any Jihadi movement captures power in Kyrgyzstan or Uzbekistan and tries infiltrating jihadi fighters into Xinxiang, the Chinese could respond ruthlessly. But I think before Beijing, even Moscow would do anything to prevent jihadi regimes from sprouting anywhere near its borders – the last thing that they want is an Afghanistan like country in Kazakhstan and their people spilling into Russia.
I normally enjoy these Glazov Gang videos. But I don’t get this one.
With the exception of Nonie, I don’t know who the other two are or what their expertise on this (or any subject) is.
Is a “Conservative Comedian” a good choice for a debate / discussion on China and Islam?
And who would give any credibility to an effeminate guy (?) who brings a stuffed bunny rabbit to a serious debate?
Also, the topic appears to be “China’s Rise vs US’ Fall”.
Maybe the latter part of the discussion centers on China’s strategy against Islam, but I gave up out of boredom, as the discussion was predominantly centered on personal viewpoints of individuals I can’t recognize as experts on anything. (i.e. the comedian and the bunny lover).
I’m with Stephen Dvd here. Apart from Nonie Darwish, I didn’t see any serious thinking. Tommy Trudeau’s history is also screwy, since FDR didn’t bring us out of WWII, but died some months before it ended, leaving the job of bringing us out to Harry S. Truman–and that of presiding over an incredible postwar prosperity to Eisenhower.
I didn’t sense serious expertise or even more than superficial interest in China. While Sayet is probably right in being suspicious of Chinese educational accomplishments, since Communist regimes have long been notorious for Potemkin statistics, and I myself was shocked in the 1990′s when I found that numbers of people from southern China cannot speak the national language, I still would not be surprised if there aren’t a lot of countries that beat us in reading skills–and now I hear an unwelcome voice suggesting that maybe we ought to bring back the Jim Crow era literacy test and such things.
I certainly believe that a China achieving the military posture it would prefer, and unworried about a US presence in the Western Pacific, would probably be pretty rough on the “Stans” if they got out of line. Further, the thug regimes of the Islamic world respect China, for it is a better established thug regime than their own. But we also have the problem of every Chinese province as a “Greece”, sitting on tons of bad debt because the center has demanded that certain targets be met. This is what one of Hong Kong’s prominent economists warned a meeting of China’s top economic planners when he thought nobody would let the news out of the room.
However, one plus that China does have is that back during the Great Proletarian Cultural Revolution, they did kill off a generation or two of Leftist intellectuals. This probably aided the post-reform growth of China immensely. It’s too bad that official America allows people of the same ilk to serve as a public conscience.
And I sure would’ve loved to have heard more from Nonie Darwish.
Is Trudeau for real? Or is he sort of like so-called “pro-wrestling”, where the whole thing is really make-believe? The positions he was taking seemed — at the end anyway — like an act, a routine, like he was ribbing everyone, much like the “pro” wrestlers.
Umm Don’t underestimate China: they have more people buying up critical assets (rare minrerals for a start 62% of world supply already) and are bullish re oil. They make India look like a schoolchild. China will first continue to do what she has always wanted to do: establish China as the world power and destoy/undermine western power.
Once the west is no real threat(and thanks to industrial and other espionage and the world’s greatest bank of PC savvy hackers it wont take long) and the oil starts to not matter you can expect many of the ‘stans to suddenly have proChinese leaders and repression of all Islam.
The west has been usings its manufacturing and intellectual superiority to lead the wold for a long time but China knows how to work against capitalism by playing that game also, only better. As China will have no problems in killing off all rebellions internally, I see no choice other than the above events as the west is cutting its own throat fincially while still throwing good money in lunatic directions:Palestine, Pakistan, Egypt
IMHO the west will get what it deserves. I see no way out unless Communist China turns into a moral state? She never has been.
BTW did any of you see the results of the wargame scenario off Taiwan? Sorry but I don’t have the URL but IIRC the result was quite scary.
Zathras, I wouldn’t underestimate China, but I wouldn’t overestimate it, either.
And, as for the wargane scenarios off Taiwan, I do not doubt that a determined Communist Chinese offensive could overcome the island’s defenses before US power could intervene. However, I wouldn’t underestimate the Taiwanese, either. Among other things, I could see a long, bloody pacification by attrition following a PRC victory. There’s both a bitter anti-Communism AND a nasty separatist stance that’s picked up the anti-Communist one (since the Free Formosa crowd discovered to its dismay that the PRC is even less sympathetic to them than the Guomindang) which could easily cause the deaths of many of Mainland China’s only sons before going down.
And I would also not underestimate the PRC’s ability to make an arrogant miscalculation, too.
Also, about Islam in China, I believe that too much attention is paid to Uyghur separatism while not enough is given to the grievances of Hui people inside “China Proper”. There is growing Islamic da’wa and devotion among them, which, I suspect, is symptomatic of the creeping delegitimation of Marxism-Leninism in China as a whole. While the Hui are not separatist and have a modern history of Chinese patriotism, they could easily link up with other disgruntled elements within the Han population.
And I would not make Mainland China the great anti-jihadi hope. It remains the last, best hope of 20th century totalitarianism, which, if anything, was more destructive and vicious than Islam.
I refuse to despair of ‘the West’. And I *also* refuse to see China, or the Chinese, as absolutely irredeemable, as an Eternal Enemy; precisely as I refuse to write off even Muslims as irredeemable.
And so i will continue, stubbornly, to pray, daily and weekly, for the Defeat of the Jihad and for the Conversion of Muslims (with some heartening evidence of a crumbling of Islam in the Maghreb and in Persia) and *also* to pray for the Redemption of China, and indeed, for the continuing growth – in numbers and in love and knowledge – and perseverance, despite all persecution, of the deeply-rooted indigenous Church within China – again, with a certain degree of hope, as anyone would have who read Brother Yun’s book ‘The Heavenly Man’, or even just Gladys Aylward’s Memoirs, and her account of how, at the end of her years in Yangcheng, the Mandarin of the town came to her and requested Baptism. Two hundred years ago, if you had told someone that one day the number of actively professing – in the face of stiff persecution – Christians in china would be counted in the scores of millions, you would have been laughed at. Not today.
I say these things, and I pray these prayers, not because I am some naive and starry-eyed Pollyanna but because I believe in the Holy One of Israel: the One Who raises the dead, heals the sick, and casts out demons.
And because I am enjoined, as a Christian, to refuse to succumb to Despair, which is classified as one of the seven deadly Sin and should perhaps be seen as competing with Pride for the position of Deadliest.
I share your misgivings about the Hui.
If they start becoming more fervently Islamic, they will be far more dangerous than the Uyghur, for the simple reason that besides being a large minority in certain provinces they also have what might be called ‘colonies’ all over China. I think there’s hardly a province or a major city that doesn’t have a population of Hui.
Furthermore (correct me if I’m wrong) they’re less ‘visible’ and are ‘flying under the radar’. Didn’t they rise up in massive Jihad in the past only to be violently and pretty thoroughly crushed? It may be that their past two or three centuries of relative Hui quiescence since that last bid for power should be seen as somewhat analogous to the centuries of relative Mohammedan quiescence and retreat in the west after their smashing defeat at Vienna.
To me, the aggressively-jihading Uyghur / smiling-and-accommodating Hui dichotomy looks almost like a reflex of the badcop/ goodcop extremist/ moderate game that the Ummah has always played to perfection. (Which is why I *also* have misgivings about the *other* Muslims in Thailand, the ones who don’t live in the obviously-Islamified southern provinces, the ones who have ‘got in everywhere’, the ones nobody worries about, because they don’t seem to be giving any trouble…not like those nasty Malay Muslims in the south…).
What happens if, while the Chinese post-maoist despots are focusing most of their energy upon keeping the Uyghur under control, the Hui – keeping their noses clean, smiling, bowing, yes sir, no sir – are quietly white-anting institutions and organisations?
Think of the Americans chasing the Taliban up hill and down dale, all the while the Stealth Jihad advances at a rate of knots on the home front.
As always, I appreciate comment from “Down Under”.
I’m another who refuses to despair, for the same reasons you refuse to. God has set his Anointed at his right hand, from whence he must reign until it’s time to overthrow death, the last enemy (Ps. 2, I Cor. 15).
However, my comments on the Hui are those of a former consular officer and traveler in the Far East noting things that are going on. But I wouldn’t despair of the Hui, either. For example, I understand that one of the most popular singers/songwriters among the House Churches of China is of Hui origin, and she is not the only Hui who has been attracted to Jesus Christ, either. As a minority religion in contact with other minority religions (including Christianity), the Hui have a lot more give-and-take with a non-Muslim environment than, say, the Balochi, Pathan, or Peninsular Arabs.
The real threat the Hui pose for the current regime would lie in the strong possibility that they might make common cause with other disgruntled people of “China Proper”–and China can no longer hide its undercurrents of dissent as it was formerly able to do. Most Hui, including the Islamically devout, identify with the Chinese state and nation, even if many may be disgruntled towards the Communist Party.
However, one plus that China does have is that back during the Great Proletarian Cultural Revolution, they did kill off a generation or two of Leftist intellectuals. This probably aided the post-reform growth of China immensely…
Kepha, I always look forward to your posts, but I couldn’t help but find this comment *deeply disturbing*.
For one thing, China didn’t just kill off her “Leftist intellectuals” during the brutal Cultural Revolution, but intellectuals, scientists, business people, and even doctors of all stripes.
In addition, recall that Mao wasn’t killing off Leftist intellectuals in favor of conservatives of some sort, but in favor of *hard-line Communists*. I have some issues with Leftitst intellectuals in the West myself, but they are a pretty benign bunch compared to *Maoists*.
Moreover, I don’t believe that the brutal horrors of the Cultural Revolution “aided the post-reform growth of China immensely”"rather, I believe this tyrannical savagery set China back decades. The same has been true in Russia and Cambodia.
But the main issue is that a nation *massacring* its own people is”or should be”regarded as *simply horrifying*.
Perhaps you were speaking tongue-in-cheek”I just don’t know…
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