Pamela Geller: Confronting the Huffington Post

In PJ Media today I wrote about the mainstream media's eagerness to carry water for Islamic supremacists, and have noted several times recently the tendency of Ahmadi spokesmen in the U.S. to defend those who are persecuting and killing their people in Pakistan and Indonesia. This story combines both: a clearly unscrupulous and dishonest Ahmadi, Harris Zafar, attacking not the persecutors of the Ahmadis, but Pamela Geller and me in the Huffington Post, which of course eagerly gave him space, but when Geller sent in a rebuttal piece, the HuffPo, true to form, dragged its feet about publishing it and finally put it up today only as an addendum to Zafar's dishonest screed, and only after receiving an avalanche of tweets and emails from Atlas Shrugs readers.

The whole incident is typical of the Leftist media's and the Ahmadiyya's odd and ultimately suicidal willingness to front for Islamic supremacists and jihadists.

"Confronting Harris Zafar," by Pamela Geller, Huffington Post (via Atlas Shrugs), July 16:

The Huffington Post received a response to Harris Zafar from Pamela Geller, which was published below in full on July 16, 2012.

Confronting Harris Zafar

By Pamela Geller

Typical of the dishonesty and disingenuousness of Harris Zafar's attack piece on me in the Huffington Post is his opening claim that "Geller takes exception with Islam's acceptance of the prophethood of Abraham, Moses and Jesus Christ." He complains that "paradoxically, her ignorance has no problem granting Christians the right to invoke Moses and Abraham without delegitimizing Judaism." He does not mention that while Christianity acknowledges the Jewishness of Moses, Abraham, and the other Jewish prophets, Islam denies it: "No; Abraham in truth was not a Jew, neither a Christian; but he was a Muslim and one pure of faith; certainly he was never of the idolaters." (Quran 3:67).

Zafar never explains that Islam doesn't just "accept the prophethood of Abraham, Moses, and Jesus Christ," but completely recasts them as Muslim prophets who decisively rejected the basic tenets of Judaism and Christianity: the Quran even depicts Jesus rejecting the core Christian belief of the divinity of Christ (5:116). Islam thereby completely delegitimizes Judaism and Christianity and presents itself as the true religion of the Biblical prophets -- but instead of admitting this, Harris Zafar blames me for noting it.

And in the rest of his piece, he doesn't get any more honest. While affecting a posture of wounded sanctimony, he levies vicious attacks against my work ("mostly outrageous and irrational") and claims to know my motives: "Geller searched for reasons to loathe the Islamic faith." He is no more objective regarding others he identifies as my influences, particularly the world-renowned historian Bat Ye'or, whom he characterizes as "a Jewish-Egyptian French writer who imputes Christian and Jewish suffering to the theological beliefs of Islam," without mentioning that the Muslims who cause Christian and Jewish suffering invoked the theological beliefs of Islam to explain and justify their actions.

  • Zafar then offers a list of what he calls my "outlandish statements," which he makes outlandish by misrepresenting, distorting, and outright lying about.
  • "She has falsely claimed that President Obama is a Muslim with the aim of fostering America's submission to Islam": actually, I have never claimed Obama was a Muslim, and just recently published an article in which I pointed out that "the reason why people think Obama is a Muslim is because of how he acts" -- in other words, because of his policies, which have been consistently pro-Islam, not because of his personal faith.
  • Zafar says I claimed that "Arabic is not a language but 'the spearhead of an ideological project that is deeply opposed to the United States.'" In reality, I have never said that "Arabic is not a language"; Zafar has to resort to outright lies to make his case that my work is "outrageous and irrational." Here is the actual quote: "Arabic is not just another language like French or Italian, it is the spearhead of an ideological project that is deeply opposed to the United States." And who said it? Not I, but Mark Steyn. That's right: so desperate is Zafar to smear me that he is attributing statements by other people to me.
  • Zafar claims that I say that "Hitler and Nazism were inspired by Islam (therefore 'devout Muslims should be prohibited from military service')." In reality, that quote comes from an article I wrote that touched on the Fort Hood jihad murderer and the devout Muslim faith of jihadists worldwide. Never do I say that devout Muslims should be excluded from the military because of Hitler, but because so many devout Muslims commit violent attacks against infidels without any warning.
  • And were Hitler and the Nazis inspired by Islam? Don't believe me, believe Eichmann's assistant, Dieter Wisliczeny, who testified at Nuremberg that the Mufti of Jerusalem was a central figure in the planning of the genocide of the Jews: "The Grand Mufti has repeatedly suggested to the Nazi authorities -- including Hitler, von Ribbentrop and Himmler -- the extermination of European Jewry. ... The Mufti was one of the initiators of the systematic extermination of European Jewry and had been a collaborator and adviser of Eichmann and Himmler in the execution of this plan."
  • Zafar says that I say that "Islam is the most anti-Semitic, genocidal ideology in the world." Maybe Zafar can name another ideology whose founder, leader and guide said something as anti-Semitic and genocidal as this, but I can't top this from Muhammad, Zafar's beloved prophet: "The last hour would not come unless the Muslims will fight against the Jews and the Muslims would kill them until the Jews would hide themselves behind a stone or a tree and a stone or a tree would say: Muslim, or the servant of Allah, there is a Jew behind me; come and kill him." (Sahih Muslim 6985).
  • Zafar says I "called for the removal of the Dome of the Rock from the Temple Mount in Jerusalem," and I stand by that. But once again he doesn't give you all the information: I never said it should be removed by violence, and I said this in response to repeated jihadi attacks on Muslims at the Temple Mount. Zafar never bothers to condemn those attacks or even mention them.
  • Zafar says I "bought bus ads offering Muslims an opportunity to leave Islam." In reality, my bus ads offered help to ex-Muslims threatened with death for leaving Islam -- help Zafar's group has never offered, despite his claim to reject Islam's death penalty for apostasy.
  • Zafar says I "called for boycotts of both Campbell's soup and Butterball turkeys for offering a certified halaal food line." In reality, I called for the Campbell's boycott not because of that halal line as such but because Campbell's was using a Hamas-linked Muslim Brotherhood group, the Islamic Society of North America (ISNA) to certify its halal line. Regarding Butterball, my complaint was that all its turkeys are halal, but aren't labelled as such, so consumers can't make informed choices.


After all those distortions, fabrications, and lies about my writings and activities, it's no wonder that Zafar says that my "claims are so bizarre that one struggles to understand whether they are worthy of a response." But only by dishonesty can Zafar get there.

Zafar then goes on to claim that "one common allegation the two [Robert Spencer and I] have advanced together is that Islam prescribes a death penalty for apostasy" -- as if we made this up. Then he claims that "there is nothing contained within the Holy Quran -- the highest authoritative source in Islam -- that sanctions any punishment for apostasy," and that "the Quran contains at least 10 verses about those who leave Islam, none of which sanction death in response." He never mentions that all the schools of Islamic law mandate death for apostasy, and that many Muslims base this on Quran 4:89, which tells Muslims to kill those who "emigrate in the way of God" -- that is, become Muslim and move to a Muslim land -- "if they turn their backs," i.e., leave Islam.

Then Zafar claims that "Muhammad never ordered any person to be killed for apostasy," but ignores that Muhammad said "Whoever changes his Islamic religion, then kill him" (Bukhari 9.84.57). Nor does Zafar mention that in one tradition, a Muslim leader, Muadh Jabal, refused to sit down until an apostate brought before him had been killed "in accordance with the decision of Allah and of His Apostle." He doesn't mention the Tafsir al-Qurtubi, a classic and thoroughly mainstream exegesis of the Quran, which says:

Scholars disagree about whether or not apostates are asked to repent. One group say that they are asked to repent and, if they do not, they are killed. Some say they are given an hour and others a month. Others say that they are asked to repent three times, and that is the view of Malik. Al-Hasan said they are asked a hundred times. It is also said that they are killed without being asked to repent.

Zafar claims that "no punishment exists for apostasy" -- in other words, he thinks that all the schools of Islamic law and all the sects of Islam other than Zafar's own Ahmadi sect, which is violently persecuted as heretical by Muslims in Pakistan and Indonesia, got Islamic teaching on apostasy wrong, and only his group has gotten it right. He claims that the death penalty for apostasy is an example of "radical interpretations of Islam" and implies it originated with the twentieth century Islamic leader Maududi -- but he must know about these traditions of Muhammad and understandings of the Quran, even if he rejects them. Thus this is more evidence of his dishonesty.

By now it is clear that Zafar's words on taqiyya, Islamic religious deception, can't be trusted any more than the rest of what he claims. He again acts as if I have originated the idea that it is "the practice of lying to non-Muslims in order to advance the cause of Islam" and claims that "no verse from the Quran is provided" in my writings or Spencer's "as a clear instruction for this practice." In reality, Spencer has written this:

Qur'an 3:28 warns believers not to take unbelievers as "friends or helpers" (َأَوْلِيَا -- a word that means more than casual friendship, but something like alliance), "unless (it be) that ye but guard yourselves against them." This is a foundation of the idea that believers may legitimately deceive unbelievers when under pressure. The word used for "guard" in the Arabic is tuqātan (تُقَاةً), the verbal noun from taqiyyatan -- hence the familiar term taqiyya.

The renowned Qur'an commentator Ibn Kathir says that the phrase "unless (it be) that ye but guard yourselves against them" means that "believers who in some areas or times fear for their safety from the disbelievers" may "show friendship to the disbelievers outwardly, but never inwardly. For instance, Al-Bukhari recorded that Abu Ad-Darda' said, 'We smile in the face of some people although our hearts curse them.' Al-Bukhari said that Al-Hasan said, 'The Tuqyah [taqiyya] is allowed until the Day of Resurrection." While many Muslim spokesmen today maintain that taqiyya is solely a Shi'ite doctrine, shunned by Sunnis, the great Islamic scholar Ignaz Goldziher points out that while it was formulated by Shi'ites, "it is accepted as legitimate by other Muslims as well, on the authority of Quran 3:28." The Sunnis of Al-Qaeda practice it today.

After that, Zafar's hit piece gets really bizarre: he likens Robert Spencer and me to Abu Lahab and his wife, early foes of Muhammad "driven by their fiery hatred of Islam and its Prophet." Zafar says that "fittingly, Chapter 111 of the Quran (entitled al-Lahab) predicts that the plotting of such nefarious enemies of Islam would appear but ultimately fail miserably, and their wealth will not avail them." Once again, he whitewashes Islam: Zafar doesn't mention that that chapter says that Abu Lahab and his wife are burning in hellfire.

Zafar ends his crudely deceptive and dishonest screed by claiming that I am "practicing deception" and saying he wants to debate me. The worst part about his piece is that Zafar's Ahmadi brethren are being viciously persecuted by Muslims who deem them heretics. I have spoken out in their defense, and instead of thanking me, Zafar sides with his persecutors. He should be debating the mainstream Muslims whom he claims have misunderstood Islam, not me. But clearly he is suffering from a bad case of Stockholm Syndrome.

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Excellent rebuttal, Pamela. as far as Zafar wanting to debate you is ill-advised on his part, because Islam itself prevents a winning argument unless obfuscation is fully employed as a defense.

I wonder if he has ever offered to debate Robert? I would suspect not.

I think there's a typo: the jihadi attacks on the Temple Mount are on Jews, not Muslims.

"there is nothing contained within the Holy Quran -- the highest authoritative source in Islam -- that sanctions any punishment for apostasy,"--Huffington Post using Zafar as their hand-puppet to promote Islam and fool the non-Muslim public (or is it the other way around, with Zafar using the H Post as his propaganda jihad megaphone? Perhaps a combination.)

Anyhow, yes the Quran does imply earthly punishments for apostasy in particular and for disbelief in general. The Quran is adamant that the disbelievers will be punished in this life, will have no protectors in this world, will not escape on the earth, and that Muslims should not relent in pursuing them. Pamela cited 4:89 (indeed the whole passage through 4:90 and 91 confirms that, while some are allowed to repent, at least some apostates are to be killed (i.e., those who don't repent or who don't surrender to the Islamic authorities). The passage 9:12-14 also calls for the killing of apostates (those who broke their oaths), blasphemers who "revile" Islam, and the leaders of disbelief, among others. Moreover, some of the people to be killed under the directive in 9:5 were apostates. Verse 5:54 calls for mighty/harsh jihad against apostates, and 9:123 calls for killing disbelievers in general who are in close proximity to Muslims. Verses 5:32-33 allow for killing those who spread corruption/mischief, and there is no more dangerous form of this according to Islam than spreading disbelief (i.e., public blasphemy and apostasy and advocating apostasy). According to the Quran, disbelief (kufr)--specifically learning of Muhammad's message and rejecting it--is the worst crime and thus deserving of the harshest penalty.

The Quran itself however is not explicitly clear on the matter. There are a number of important distinctions and issues that simply aren't dealt with in the Quran because it is such a crude, badly written, fragmentary, incomplete and inadequate book. While there are plenty of grounds for the death penalty or at least some earthly penalty for apostasy, the Quran does not come right out and order the execution of mere apostates per se (i.e., people whose only "crime" is to announce or otherwise indicate overtly that they have left Islam), as it, for example, calls for cutting off the hand of the thief or the lashing of the fornicator. (Muhammad in the hadith is of course explicit and sweeping in his command to kill those who leave Islam).

Another useful reference point, for comparison, is 9:29 which mandates slaughter and warfare against and subjugation of disbelievers, including the People of the Book, simply on the grounds that those non-Muslims don't follow the formulae of Islam and Muhammad. With 9:29 in mind we can ask: If this is the policy toward people simply for being non-Muslims, would not the penalty for apostasy be at least as severe as this? The answer to such questions need not be left to the reasoning of the individual Muslim; that's what the Hadith are for. The hadiths tell us that the first rightly-guided caliph Abu Bakr waged deadly warfare against numerous Arab tribes who had apostatized after Muhammad's death. Muhammad himself had threatened to burn down houses on top of those inside them who merely failed to attend prayers.

There are numerous hadiths that indicate the death penalty for apostasy. Pamela has cited two of them. Here is another one of the major ones:

Sahih Bukhari Volume 9, Book 83, Number 17:
"Narrated 'Abdullah: Allah's Apostle said, "The blood of a Muslim cannot be shed except in three cases: In Qisas for murder, a married person who commits illegal sexual intercourse and the one who reverts from Islam (apostate) and leaves the Muslims.""

According to Islamic jurisprudence, the penalty for apostasy is death:

“Muslim jurists are unanimous that apostates must be punished, yet they differ as to determining the kind of punishment to be inflicted upon them. The majority of them, including the four main schools of jurisprudence (Hanafi, Maliki, Shafi`i, and Hanbali) as well as the other four schools of jurisprudence (the four Shiite schools of Az-Zaidiyyah, Al-Ithna-`ashriyyah, Al-Ja`fariyyah, and Az-Zaheriyyah) agree that apostates must be executed.” --stated by Yusuf Qaradawi in 2006.

Over a dozen Islamic countries today have the death penalty for apostasy, and most have some legal punishment for apostasy, not to mention the threat from Muslim vigilantes. Polls indicate that a very large minority of Muslims worldwide--perhaps about 40% (though much higher in some countries)--think apostates in general should be put to death. The level of support for killing adult male apostates specifically is probably higher than this, because some Muslims think women and children who leave Islam should be given punishments other than death. The level of support would be higher still among Muslims if they had been asked if there should be at least some legal penalty for apostasy; I suspect such a proposition would have majority support. This inference is supported by other data which indicates that about 58%-78% of Muslims in the West want those who criticize Islam to be criminally prosecuted and punished. The support is likely to be higher in the Islamic world. This relates to apostasy because apostasy is similar to if not practically the same as a Muslim blaspheming. Thus, because the vast majority of Muslims worldwide want those who criticize Islam to be criminally prosecuted and punished, it stands to reason that they would similarly want to punish those who blaspheme in the act of announcing their apostasy.

For now though, in the West, some Muslims such as Zafar believe that propaganda jihad (jihad of tongue and pen) against blasphemers and apostates suffices.


I just finished the first leg on my legal case against my ex-employer that is quietly funidng a pro-hamas group via their Charity-Foundation where I uncovered how they divert some Share Holders profits to this Pool of Money in the "Foundation" which is then Meted-out to various casuse to improve the Corporate Image.
Not only does some of the money endorse and enable the pro-Hamas islamists in canada and their Brothers murdering of momosexuals in gaza and lebanon/iran/saudi Arabia...but, they also fund a Quasi-peopdhilia Group that gets away with being naked in public in front of little girls as the Police stand by and allow it.

it's a sick and upside-down World we have, and my ex-Employer's Legal Counsel submitted a file with so many half truths and lies about me that it's obvious they want to drag this out the case to keep it out of the MSM.
They even tried to buy me off in the last 20 minutes of the 3 1/2 hour hearing, but I stoood my grounds to protect chidlren abd gays in gaza and iran even if canada is now a pro-pedophilia and pro-Misogyny nation bowing to the islamic-supramacy goons in Toronto and Ottawa.

The Canadian Revenue Agency (CRA) allows for the Charity-Status to Corp.'s to set-up Foundations to use for PR to give back to the Community, BUT....this is a Publically listed Corporation in Canada and the USA on both Stcok market Exchanges.
This now violeate the Security Laws too for knowingly aiding a Terrorist group , or, failing to alert Share Holders that some Profits are going to a religious group to promote Jihad and the Murdering of Homoseuals along with supporting females and children being used as Suicide Bombers.

It's not my fault if the Corporation has Lawyers too stupid and lazy to do their Research for where the monry goes and which Community Group they support. The Corporation had also started a new Policy in 2009 that forced employees to morally and Financially support these crimes or homophobic groups with donations or to take part in the public events with Corporate Logos on.

Pam is going through the same smear campaign i just went through , but the Judge finally heard my side of the story and now knows that I have documents and public evidence that the lawyers can find just a easy as I did for $3.00 at a Internet Cafe to browse the WWW.
I will make my ex-Employe and Legal Firm rue the day they tried to pay me for a foll to be bought off with bobbles and a small bag of money.

It's really sad that radical pro-shariah imams can spew hatred and call for the death of homoseual with not one peep from the leftist/liberals or MSM to condemn them, BUT, when I speak up over my employers support for it I'm the one demonized for being critical and that I should just drink the Kool-ade and sing from the Corproate hymm book and get along.
Toronto canada is still a magnet for pedophiles and pro-shariah islamic supremacy thugs that can freely support hamas and iran as the Police stand by and provide security for their free-speech to spew hate and homophobic rants to murder gays.

Again, truely a sick and twisted upside-down World.








BTW

Michael Coren jsu came across this same issue for Child-abuse and quasi-pedophilia where there is now a Vdieo fo the police attacking a pro-Child protestor that objected to the child-abuse and pedophilia by naked males allowed toexpose their penis at little girls on Yonge Street in Toronto.

The Police Boards PR person said they were not aware of this child-abuse or overt nudity by men at little girls. The Sgt. that did the assualt on a citizen is now in damgae control and claims that SOME child abuse is allowed and that SOME quasi-pedophilia acts are allowed in special cases.
My GAWD, SOME child-abuse is allowed???????? SOME pedophilia is legal??????

Michael said he will not let this go and I hope he has one of the pro-pedophilia Cops on the explain
why they collect a salary to watch chidlren being abused in public. The Sgt. ( Schultz) should be grilled just are tough as Imam rauf was to answer for why he believes that SOME child-abuse is legal and SOME pedophilia is Legal in special cases.
Politicians have also endorsed this child-abuse to get votes and they stay mute on the pedophilia to not offend thier pro-pedophile voter pools in Toronto.

Go get him Coren because people need to know that Sgt.'s are getting about $90'000.00 ayear to do their jobs , and yet, if tolerating child-abuse and pedophilia is in the books as legal for some minorities, it's time to clean house and get rid of the PC hiring system that tried to reflect all cultures and forms of sexual preferences.

Sick sick sick.

Any reasonable person can see that the Qur'an says Abraham, Moses and Jesus were prophets, but the Qur'an, having been written 600 years after Jesus, does not contain their teaching. Mohammad just summarized their lives. It is also apparent in haddiths that Mohammad deferred to the scriptures possessed by the Jews and Christians of his day. Mohammad also used Gnostic and Apocryphal (basically novels written from legends centuries later) gospels and pagan stories and characters of his time. Mohammad was not a scholar and was obviously not even very familiar with the teachings of Abraham, Moses, and Jesus. Any reasonable person can read the Bible and the Qur'an and see the disconnect.

It's worse than the Stockholm Syndrome, Zafar is also an idiot...Pam's rebuttal was concise and complete...But most likely it will go over Zafar's head...

If there's one thing I truly enjoy, it's the systematic and concise demolition, brick-by-brick, of any attempted muslim wall of lies. We're fortunate here to see that regularly from the likes of Gravenimage & DDA. But this one ranks right up there with the best of them. I don't think this fool should want any part of either Spencer or Geller. But one can hope!

Here is an article about what the Ahmadis believe:

"The Ahmadiyas,aTruly Peaceful and Progressive Group in the Muslim World,that is Rejected as being Muslim by the Sunnis and Shias"


http://www.antisharia.com/2011/06/02/the-ahmadiyasthe-only-truly-peaceful-and-progressive-group-in-the-muslim-worldthat-is-rejected-as-being-muslim-by-the-sunnis-and-shias/

AND ALSO ABOUT THIS AHMADI SCIENTIST

"Abdus Salam,said he was a Muslim, was the Only Scientific Genius from the Muslim World in 600 Years,and Rejected by Sunnis and Shias as a Muslim"

http://www.antisharia.com/2011/06/09/abdus-salamsaid-he-was-a-muslim-was-the-only-scientific-genius-from-the-muslim-world-in-600-yearsand-rejected-by-sunnis-and-shias-as-a-muslim/

This is from a speech by a peaceful Ahmadiyya leader advocating the destruction of Israel:

"We have received a tract which comprises an address of Al-Syed Mirza Mahmud Ahmad Sahib which he delivered in Lahore. In this address he has urged the Muslims to unite and has drawn attention to the need of solid and effective efforts towards rescuing Palestine from the grip of Zionist criminals and has asked the people of Pakistan to render immediate help to the Palestine Arabs. Reminding the Muslims of their common allegiance to the Holy Prophet, peace and blessings of Allah be upon him, and arguing from verses of the Holy Quran the speaker has urged them to organize themselves to with-stand the onsets of the Zionist criminals who are being supported by the United States and Communist Russia in pursuance of their interests and special purposes. He has asked the Muslims not to display weakness or distress, but to keep in mind their obligations of Jihad for the upholding of Islam and Muslims."

http://www.alislam.org/books/truth/israel.html

I understood Islam would like to hold debates with Jewish and Christian natiions. But beware everytime the debates begin another poon a martyar ends up blowing-up more civilian peoeple.

This ride is beginning to feel like the old ride. We are stuck in the mud and can't free our vehicle.

Thats because few Americians understand the ideology of Islam. Even fewer knowledge is known about how these boomsquad commando's get paid and get trained.

Their ideology is simple, they fully intend to subjugate the world by 2950. By 2020 there will be much greater numbers of Muslims in the United States. And their Sharia Law will be a regualar part of the courts mandates. Continuing with the appeasment of Islam try to reach them as a friend, and gain the trust. So that one day Muslims will be invited to the peace meetings.Islam is very stealth, its platoons travel very light, and don't make much noise doing it. Has anyone ever seen the Talibons military uniforms? I thought not, so everytime one of them is killed they can say we killed another civilian.

Wake-up American while you are still able to wake-up.

This is what every non-Muslim who cares about his/her way of life should do. Gavin Boby is a hero who empowers ordinary decent people to use the law to stop Islam, by stopping mosques being built:

http://www.faithfreedom.org/videos-features/gavin-bobby-an-honest-talk-about-islam-and-building-mosques/

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