Egyptian Muslim Brotherhood cleric: "The day will come when we will be masters of the world"

indeed. if egypt won 1973, there would not be exited israel. this guy is a lunatic, who distorts the definition of peace.
this what majority voted for or perhaps MB paved the way through forging counts

Yes, it looks like denial, fantasy and distortion of history is the name of the game when it comes to Islam.

I agree with you thoroughly. Frankly, I do like war at all. I have seen something of the aftermath of Cambodia's long struggles; and the last serious work I did for the State Department was chew up, digest, and regurgitate in manageable form the reporting out of Rwanda in 1994--and what I dealt with made me sick even while sitting in an air-conditioned office 7,000 miles away. But I accept that now and then, the state may wage war with just cause.

Were I the president or a majority of Congress, I'd ensure that the next time we go to war, we inflict as much damage as possible on whoever picks the fight with us. The whole Islamic world, with which we seem to be blundering into conflict after conflict, seems so cocksure that the USA is a gigantic sucker and desirous of a fight that, should another confrontation with it prove necessary, our government would have the sense to hit them with everything we've got.

@counterjihad2012:

The Philistines lived along the southwestern coast of 'Eretz Yisroel, not by the Jordan River. The reason why the Greeks and Romans named the whole of the place after them is because they were the first inhabitants of 'Eretz Yisroel anyone approaching from the West, via the Mediterranean, would encounter. Also, given that pottery similar to Mycenaean ware from Greece appears in the 'Eretz Yisroel archaeological record about the time that the Philistines invaded and settled the land, it may well be that they were an ancient Aegean people themselves.

You're a loon, an ignoramus and a hater and you will only convince other loons, ignoramuses and haters. Frankly, people like you have, effectively, lost their humanity. Now, go away, because you will convince no normal, informed human being of any of the rot your warped mind thinks is true.

P.S. On the off chance that you really don't believe the garbage you spout and are, instead, a comedian trying out new material, give up this career and seek another. Quick like.

'D' for Detritus .....?
Among the pile of garbage you wrote, there was this: 'Israel is now isolated,.......'

I'd say that Islamic states and their proxy armies are surrounded by Israel! Remember when Kissinger went down on his bended knees and begged Israel to give water to the defeated Egyptian army baking to death in the desert?

Well, the same thing will happen again if any of you genocidal scum try to attack the boy, David! You talk big, but you turn tail and run when Israel gets going. That's why that piece of camel snot, Nasrallah, hides in a bunker and never makes a live broadcast. He knows the IDF are just waiting for him to show himself and he'll be reduced to an Al Wacky-type DNA sample.

By the way, your hackneyed argument that The Bible and Al Qur'an are both full of violence, slavery etc, is so old and has been dismantled so many times, I won't waste my time dismantling it again.

You're a red-nosed, baggy-trousered, wire-wigged clown!

Naseem? Is that you?

Love

nabi ZK (pbum)

...your true nabi, total nabi of mohametan trolls and clowns....

The Quran is a dark fairy tale whispered into the ear of a psychotic Arab, by an incoherent angel named Gabriel...

"I'd say that Islamic states and their proxy armies are surrounded by Israel!"

I suggest you take a look at a map, Israel is nothing without the Shah of Iran, Mubarak in Egypt their previous ties with previous secular goverment in Turkey etc. Egypt on its own would give do a lot of damage to Israel that's without the help of Syria, Saudi, Iran, Turkey, Pakistan, Lebonan etc

"That's why that piece of camel snot, Nasrallah, hides in a bunker and never makes a live broadcast. He knows the IDF are just waiting for him to show himself and he'll be reduced to an Al Wacky-type DNA sample."

Yeah that must be the reason why he came on tv a couple of weeks ago on Quds day LoL, why doesn'y Natenyahu and Peres travel to Lebonan if they're as brave as you say they are. Heck Natenyahu wouldn't even dare travel to Turkey or Egypt now unless he want to end up like Saddat.

"By the way, your hackneyed argument that The Bible and Al Qur'an are both full of violence, slavery etc, is so old and has been dismantled so many times, I won't waste my time dismantling it again."

Yeah you mean that "Quran is perscriptve and the bible is descriptive" bullshit, you see I'm not an English literature professor but any 10 year old child could tell you that the bible declaring that you may beat your slave to death as long as they die after 2 days and you'de be justified is perscriptive. If U can't see this then might I suggest you contact your family doctor ASAP so he can give you an IQ test and see if you could score even 1/200.

"The only thing that this pedohammedan 'D' forgot to say is that Jesus was a pedophile who raped a 7 year old girl named Aisha."

You do realize that pedophelia is a mental condition which causes a person to be attracted to underdeveloped girls. Out of his 12 wives Aisha was the only young wife that he married and he stayed by her side untill he died and she was then 19 years old. The fact that the prophet remained with her and never ever replaced her with a "child bride" proves that he wasn't a pedophile. Muhammed was in his 50's when he married Aisha, he could have married many other younger girls by that time but his first marrige was to a 40 year old businesswomen when he was in his 20's. The prophet was ordered by Allah to marry Aisha, it wasn't his personal choice and even after the marrige at the age of 6 he waited till she reached puberty and maturity which was at the age of 9 when she left the house of her parents and moved in with the prophet. 1400 years ago this was perfectly normal and his marrige wasn't criticized by any arab at that time neither his friends or his enemies . 200 years ago the age of marrige in the US was at 10 in a few statesd even 7! Marrige may only be consumated at puberty according to the shariah this is agreed upon by all four scholars of the 4 different mathabs.

What a clown you are!

The Bible describes the history of the Middle East around 2,000 to 2,500 years ago. It is basically an historical document. Al Qur'an declares itself relevant for all times and places; therefore, prescriptive because it tells Muslims what to do now!
So, the two are totally different. There is no comparison.

And in the West, we've had this event called The Enlightenment. In short, secular governments replaced kings and queens (who represented God's Will on Earth)and religion became only one aspect of society. That's why there are no Christian Theocracies anywhere in the world.

However, as Islam has not experienced any Enlightenment, it is still stuck in the darkness of the 7th century with its brutal Sharia legal system. And that's why there are Islamic Theocracies that threaten to murder every Jew on the planet, simply because Al Qur'an commands it.

As for Nasrallah's very rare public appearance, the Israelis would not kill hundreds of civilians just to get Nasrallah. But he does record all his speeches because he knows that if he goes live on air in his underground bunker, the radio signal will be picked up and he'll be zapped by a rocket out of the sky.

And as for doubts about my IQ; If you're so smart, why are stuck in a failed so-called religion like Islam. A winner would ditch Islam. Islam is for psychos and losers! Anyway, the main difference between me and you is that you are a slave, I am a free man!

"The arabic version of Mein Kampf a.k.a. Quran!."

What about the Hebrew version of Mein Kampf a.k.a. Bible!?

D, Your explanation of Mohammed's, peace be upon him, marriage to Aisha is so logical and touching that it makes me want to convert back to the Religion of Peace again. However, you will be better served in a site with other muslims concocting delusional stories to justify your belief to a BLATANT LIE = ISLAM

D, now tell the truth, come on.

Had Aisha reached puberty at age 9 when Muhammad, in his fifties, consummated the marriage with her? No, she had not. Core Islamic texts say that

1) dolls are only permitted to prepubescent children; and

2) Aisha's dolls were with her when she was taken to Muhammad's house as a bride

1) Dolls are permitted only to prepubescent children:

From Sahih al-Bukhari, a canonical hadith collection:

Volume 8, Book 73, Number 151:

Narrated 'Aisha:

I used to play with the dolls in the presence of the Prophet, and my girl friends also used to play with me. When Allah's Apostle used to enter (my dwelling place) they used to hide themselves, but the Prophet would call them to join and play with me. (The playing with the dolls and similar images is forbidden, but it was allowed for 'Aisha at that time, as she was a little girl, not yet reached the age of puberty.) (Fateh-al-Bari page 143, Vol.13)

(The parenthetical statement is not mine -- it's in University of Southern California's Sahih al-Bukhari online, as you can see by clicking on the link above.)

2) Aisha's dolls were with her when she was taken to Muhammad's house as a bride:

From Sahih Muslim, a canonical hadith collection:

Book 008, Number 3311:
'A'isha (Allah be pleased with her) reported that Allah's Apostle (may peace be upon him) married her when she was seven years old, and she was taken to his house as a bride when she was nine, and her dolls were with her; and when he (the Holy Prophet) died she was eighteen years old.

So true, Wellington! A clown of the devil's disciples.

Seems the new mark of the devil is not just horns, but more stealthily, the mark of the head bangers, the zabiba, who try so hard and long to meld with the dirt. They nearly never learn, until a few decide not to fight stupidity and become apostates, and they, the so called "clerics", (really fake clerics) really do convert out, I know of a couple, through friends.

By the way, slightly off topic, but related to the never learning crap, is a very important piece of knowledge of the enemy gang of criminal islam, which is: ...'MMA to gain specific goals' 6 listed goals or steps to conquering, from within: at this URL:

http://frontpagemag.com/2012/jamie-glazov/huma-abedin-and-the-saudi-king%e2%80%99s-manifesto/

The goals delineated herein this reveal, supportive of and parallel to the MB stealth jihad goals and plans show an even more insidious subversive plan, that is aimed to prevent imported or domestic muslims from recovering from the extensive brainwashing from reality, and remain brainwashed muslims. This is a must read main reference piece of information, for all Americans.

With this piece of info as part of the big plan, one can see why so many mosks, in America. And the likelyhood, if they are allowed their way, of many times more....

'The doctrine of Islam is that if you build a mosque in a non-Islamic country, you own that country. That country after that is an Islamic country.'
— Daniel Shayesteh, ex-Extremist

And with the above quote, further explanation for such quiet mosk building, all of which supposedly can never be torn down.

Moreover, this explains why the Saudi King's manifesto stated we and the world are already “The whole of humanity is a Muslim Nation”, Huma Abedin and the Saudi King’s manifesto, courtesy of Walid Shoebat's recent translation of an obscure arabic document directly connected to Huma A. and her subversive activities, along with Shrillary.

http://sheikyermami.com/2012/08/14/the-whole-of-humanity-is-a-muslim-nation-huma-abedin-and-the-saudi-kings-manifesto/

This ought to throw a few fears into We, The People, of the West and America. And help show why Allen West, Michelle Bachman and the four friends, and Peter King are indeed additional heroes, like Robert......

Bottom line is if there existed no support structure, 'centers, educational programs, mosques and organizations like ISNA and MSA in order to stop Muslim assimilation in non-Muslim host nations' more and more muslims would convert, that is assimilate into the non-muslim nations they have depradated to.

That is why the fight we are fighting is more difficult, given the obvious evil alien brainwashed nature of the gang of islam.

"The Bible describes the history of the Middle East around 2,000 to 2,500 years ago. It is basically an historical document. Al Qur'an declares itself relevant for all times and places; therefore, prescriptive because it tells Muslims what to do now!"

A historical document you say, do you have any evidence to back this up or are you talking out of your ass again. Christians claim that the bible is the word of God, so if jesus says that You may beat your slave than that;s it. By the way are the 10 commandments also descriptive (0nly for the people who lived at that time) is salvation also descriptive?? Give me a fucking break Jesus himself says:

18 For truly I tell you, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished. 19 Therefore anyone who sets aside one of the least of these commands and teaches others accordingly will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever practices and teaches these commands will be called great in the kingdom of heaven. 20 For I tell you that unless your righteousness surpasses that of the Pharisees and the teachers of the law, you will certainly not enter the kingdom of heaven.(Mathew 5:18-21)

"And in the West, we've had this event called The Enlightenment. In short, secular governments replaced kings and queens..............."

Jesus clearly states not a single stroke of the law shal be changed and those who go against the commandments will not enter heaven. So as far as Jesus is concerned your western enlightenmet bullshit and secular bible reform crap will land you in hell!

"are Islamic Theocracies that threaten to murder every Jew on the planet, simply because Al Qur'an commands it. "

where does the quran command muslims to kill ALL and I repeat ALL Jews????

"As for Nasrallah's very rare public appearance, the Israelis would not kill hundreds of civilians just to get Nasrallah. But he does record all his speeches because he knows that if he goes live on air in his underground bunker, the radio signal will be picked up and he'll be zapped by a rocket out of the sky."

Israel has killed 1.5 million Palestinians from 1948 to 2012 why would they give a shit about killing civillians now. Israel killed lebenese civillians and wounded over 4000 during the 2006 war.

"And as for doubts about my IQ; If you're so smart, why are stuck in a failed so-called religion like Islam. "

At least I'm intelligent enough to understand that a creator of the universe would be intelligent enough to understand morality, the universe is estimated to be around 13.7 billion years old so if God's word needed an "enlightment" don't you think he would have made this "enlighment" millions of years before we even came into existance.

Okay My first post will be regarding Aisha playing with her dolls:

He said:

"It would make sense that an adult woman capable of understanding such things would be forbidden from having things like dolls which are small replicas of humans and other creatures, just as the statements made in this hadith reiterate:

Narrated 'Aisha: I used to play with the dolls in the presence of the Prophet, and my girl friends also used to play with me. When Allah's Apostle used to enter (my dwelling place) they used to hide themselves, but the Prophet would call them to join and play with me. (The playing with the dolls and similar images is forbidden, but it was allowed for 'Aisha at that time, as she was a little girl, not yet reached the age of puberty.) (Fateh-al-Bari page 143, Vol.13)

Reply:

There is no evidence that during this time, the marriage was consummated. Regarding dolls: For people below puberty, they can play with dolls which have a face. For post pubertal people, the can play only with those dolls which do not have faces.

"With regard to those in which the shape is incomplete, in which there is only a part of the limbs or head, but the shape is not clear, there is no doubt that these are permissible, and these are like the dolls with which 'Aa'ishah used to play. (Narrated in al-Bukhaari, 6130; Muslim, 2440).

But if the shape is complete, and it is as if you are looking at a person - especially if it can move or speak - then I am not entirely at ease with the idea of them being permissible, because this is a complete imitation of the creation of Allaah. It seems that the dolls with which 'Aa'ishah used to play were not like this, so it is preferable to avoid them. But I cannot say that they are definitely haraam, because there are concessions granted to young children that are not granted to adults in such matters. It is natural for young children to play and have fun, they are not obliged to do any of the acts of worship so we cannot say that that they are wasting their time in idle play. But if a person wants to be on the safe side in such matters, he should cut off the head or hold it near the fire until it softens, then he should press it until the features disappear." (Majmoo' Fataawa al-Shaykh Muhammad ibn 'Uthaymeen (may Allaah have mercy on him), 2/277-278, cited here)

It is possible these dolls which Aisha played with were shaped in a way that it wasn't haram for an adult to play with them. Ibn Abbas stated:

"What constitutes the picture is the face so if it were to be removed then it is not a picture anymore" [Sheikh Albani declared this narration to be authentic in Silsilah Al-Saheeha, Hadith no. 1921].

Now lets analyze a hadith which shows the types of dolls Aisha played with:

"Narrated Aisha: As the Messenger of Allah (pbuh) came after the expedition to Tabuk or Khaybar, the draught raised an end of a curtain which was hung in front of her store-room, revealing some dolls that belonged to her. He asked: What's this? She replied: My dolls. Among them he saw a horse with wings made of rags, and asked: What is this I see among them? She replied: A horse. He asked: What is this that it has on it? She replied: Two wings. He asked: A horse with two wings? She replied: Have you not heard that Solomon had horses with wings? She said: Thereupon the Apostle of Allah (pbuh) laughed so heartily that I could see his molar teeth." (Abu Dawud, Number 4932 - Source).

As you can see the dolls which played with were made out of RAGS and therefore they were not considered to be idols.

Now this hadith shows that Aisha played with her dolls even when she was 14 years of age:

"Abu Dawud and Nasaai have reported that Aishah said:" The Messenger of Allah came back from the battle of Tabuk or Khaybar and he looked into my doll cabinet and asked, "What are these oh 'Aaishah?" Aisha said: "These are my dolls. Aisha was at the battle of Khaybar about 14 years old and at the battle of Tabuk doubt over! " (Ibn Hajar Asqalani - Fathul Bari - Source).

Skeptics have argued that if Islam teaches that consummation comes after puberty, and Surah 33:49 states there's no iddah if the female is divorced before consummation, yet Surah 65:4 states there is an iddah for the pre pubescent if the divorce is before consummation, that means there is a contradiction regarding as to whether or not there is an iddah for the pre pubescent divorcee.

The answer to this is that Surah 33:49 is a general statement stating no iddah, while Surah 65:4 gives the exceptions as to when iddah is to occur for what types of divorcees. Tafisrs like Qurtubi's, Tabari's etc mention the pre pubescent divorcees do have an iddah period.

Some might argue that if the portion in Surah 33:49 "before ye have touched them" means consummation and sexual intercourse, then it allows for a prepubescent to have sex then get divorced. However, this is prohibited because as already shown, both consummation and sex can't occur till the prepubescent becomes pubescent. The Prophet's marriage with Aisha is an example for us, plus it wasn't until she reached puberty when the Prophet consummated the marriage.

You have to understand that different verses and Surahs were revealed at different times, the earlier verse being a general statement while the later verse showing the exceptions.

They said:
"If a woman who has not been used for sex should not have to observe any Iddah at all, as mentioned in 33:49, what is the reason for the prescribed Iddah for those women who have not yet menstruated?"

Reply:
Iddah for the pre pubescent would give time for the other party and their family to reconsider as to whether or not he is ready to conduct a marriage contract with the prepubescent. It also gives the pre pubescent's family more time to decide as to whether or not they should really conduct a marriage contract at all at that age, in view of a divorce just taken place. If a typical adult female is divorced before consummation, the emotional load on the family wouldn't be as high as it would be if a pre pubescent was divorced, because the family have greater responsibility over the pre pubescent and her future, than the adult female. Keep in mind that the pre pubescent lacks experience, never lived with a husband, etc so the waiting period stops emotions in both sides from running high, and gives crucial family time to make decisions.

"With regards to the wedding-party of a young married girl at the time of consummating the marriage, if the husband and the guardian of the girl agree upon something that will not cause harm to the young girl, then that may be done. If they disagree, then Ahmad and Abu 'Ubaid say that once a girl reaches the age of nine then the marriage may be consummated, but that does not apply in the case of who is younger. Malik, al-Shafa'i and Abu Hanifa said: the marriage may be consummated when the girl is able for intercourse, which varies from one girl to another, so no age limit can be set. This is the correct view. There is nothing in the hadith of Aisha to set an age limit, or to forbid that in the case of a girl who is able for it before the age of nine, or to allow it in the case of a girl who is not able for it and has reached the age of nine. Al-Dawudi said: Aisha (may Allah be pleased with her) reached physical maturity (at the time when her marriage was consummated)." (Imam Nawawi's: Sharh Sahih Muslim - Book Of Marriage - Source).

Some scholars even stated it's not recommended to marry before pubescent, unless there is an Islamically valid reason or valid opportunity:

وَاعْلَمْ أَنَّ الشَّافِعِيَّ وَأَصْحَابَهُ قَالُوا : وَيُسْتَحَبُّ أنْ لَا يُزَوِّجَ الْأَبُ وَالْجَدُّ الْبِكْرَ حَتَّى تَبْلُغَ ، وَيَسْتَأْذِنُهَا لِئَلَّا يُوقِعَهَا فِي أَسْرِ الزَّوْجِ وَهِيَ كَارِهَةٌ ، وَهَذَا الَّذِي قَالُوهُ لَا يُخَالِفُ حَدِيثَ عَائِشَةَلِأَنَّ ؛ لِأَنَّ مُرَادَهُمْ أَنَّهُ لَا يُزَوِّجُهَا قَبْلَ الْبُلُوغِ إِذَا لَمْ تَكُنْ مَصْلَحَةٌ ظَاهِرَةٌ يَخَافُ فَوْتَهَا بِالتَّأْخِيرِ كَحَدِيثِ عَائِشَةَ ، فَيُسْتَحَبُّ تَحْصِيلُ ذَلِكَ الزَّوْجِلِأَنَّ ؛ لِأَنَّ الْأَبَ مَأْمُورٌ بِمَصْلَحَةِ وَلَدِهِ فَلَا يُفَوِّتُهَا . وَاللَّهُ أَعْلَمُ
JJMans2012 is offline

Surah Nisa 4:6:

"Make trial of orphans until they reach the age of marriage; if then ye find sound judgment in them, release their property to them; but consume it not wastefully, nor in haste against their growing up. If the guardian is well-off, Let him claim no remuneration, but if he is poor, let him have for himself what is just and reasonable. When ye release their property to them, take witnesses in their presence: But all-sufficient is God in taking account."

From this verse, we can see that there is an age limit of marriage in Islam. The Arabic word used in this verse is "alnnikaha," (*) which some translators have translated as "puberty."

Surah Nisa 4:6: Shakir:

"And test the orphans until they attain puberty; then if you find in them maturity of intellect, make over to them their property, and do not consume it extravagantly and hastily, lest they attain to full age; and whoever is rich, let him abstain altogether, and whoever is poor, let him eat reasonably; then when you make over to them their property, call witnesses in their presence; and Allah is enough as a Reckoner."

Surah Nisa 4:6: Khalifah:

"You shall test the orphans when they reach puberty. As soon as you find them mature enough, give them their property. Do not consume it extravagantly in a hurry, before they grow up. The rich guardian shall not charge any wage, but the poor guardian may charge equitably. When you give them their properties, you shall have witnesses. GOD suffices as Reckoner."

Tafsirs of this verse inform us:

Ibn Kathir's tafsir - Surah Nisa 4:6:
"(until they reach the age of marriage), the age of puberty, according to Mujahid."

Jalalayn's tafsir - Surah Nisa 4:6:
"...until they reach the age of marrying, that is, until they have become eligible for it through puberty or [legal] age..."

Ibn Abbas' tafsir - Surah Nisa 4:6:
"(Prove orphans) test the intelligence of orphans (till they reach the marriageable age) the age of puberty..."

Dr F Ajmeri - Dawat-Ul Quran - Volume 1 - Page 241:
"To reach the age of marriage means to be adolescent. According to Shariah, it is fixed on the manifestation of the natural growth of the human parts of the body. It means that according to Quran the age for marriage of a boy or a girl is on his or her reaching the age of adolescence."

Maulana Muhammad Taqi Usmani - Ma'ariful Quran - Volume 2 - Page 323:
"Along with the injunction of maturity (bulugh) in this verse, the Holy Qur'an has also answered the question as to the 'age' when a child would be taken as mature (baligh) by saying: اذا بلغوا النكاح translated as 'until they reach marriageability'. Here, it has been indicated that real maturity is not tied up with any particular count of years. Rather, it depends on particular indicators and signs experiences by adults entering the threshold of adulthood. When, in terms of these indicators and signs, they would be regarded to marry, they would be considered mature, even if their age does not exceed thirteen or fourteen years."

Sayyid Qutb - In The Shade Of The Qur'an - The Islamic Foundation - Volume 3 - Page 35:
"The test, therefore, to make sure that the orphan has reached the age of puberty, which is referred to in the Qur'anic text by the term "marriage", is the function that can be fulfilled only after the attainment of puberty."

Moreover, Imam Qurtubi stated that marriage is at puberty (Qurtubi's tafsir - Surah 4:6 - Source). Zamakhshari stated a similar thing in his tafsir of Surah 4:6 (Source) and so did Tabarsi (Source).

"According to Shariah, engagements and marriage can be done as soon as they reach maturity and puberty." (Sheikh Abdur Raheem Abu Nauman - Source).

We also read in the following verse that marriage is a strong promise/covenant according to:

Surah Nisa 4:21:

"And how could ye take it when ye have gone in unto each other, and they have Taken from you a solemn covenant?"

From these 2 verses in combination, we understand that marriage is a agreement between men and women at the age of maturity where they can make good judgments. When a person reaches puberty, he/she can decide to get married if he/she wants to. If you marry someone before puberty, the marriage is NOT complete till both reach puberty. You cannot have intercourse with the person you marry, till the marriage is completed (which is at puberty). No-one can force you to marry, or stay married. We see that there is no specific limit to when a person can complete the marriage, because puberty can start earlier for some people and late for others. Interestingly, in the USA 100+ years ago, people could participate in sexual activity, at the age of 10.

Sahih Bukhari, Volume 1, Book 8, Number 465:

"Narrated 'Aisha:(the wife of the Prophet) I had seen my parents following Islam since I attained the age of puberty. Not a day passed but the Prophet visited us, both in the mornings and evenings. My father Abii Bakr thought of building a mosque in the courtyard of his house and he did so. He used to pray and recite the Qur'an in it. The pagan women and their children used to stand by him and look at him with surprise. Abu Bakr was a Softhearted person and could not help weeping while reciting the Quran. The chiefs of the Quraish pagans became afraid of that (i.e. that their children and women might be affected by the recitation of Quran)."

Notice the above narration states Aisha had reached puberty while she was still living with her parents. So, before Aisha moved in with the Prophet and before the marriage consummation occurred, she had reached puberty.

Zonie

you observed: "Notice how he says, on one hand, that he is a man of peace and only wants what is rightfully his, but on the other hand, the goal is to rule the whole world."

Precisely: because in their advanced condition of malignant narcissism, convinced Muslims firmly believe that the **whole world**, all of Planet Earth, is rightfully theirs. While we dirty kuffar qua kuffar have no right at all to our lives, liberty or property. Our bodies, our children, everything we have built and produced or invented, and every place where we live, is viewed by the greedy, resentful, envious Mohammedan Mob as being **theirs**...for the taking, as and when they think they are strong enough. If they can manage to get these things from us without having to actually fight, that's fine by them; but if we won't hand over the dibs when the lordly Mohammedthugs make the demand, then...the Mohammedans in the usual blame-shifting of a bully and Abuser will view *us* as being responsible for the mass-murderous Jihad that will then be waged.

D, present your casuistry to the famous mainstream Islamic authorities who disagree with you. Present it to Ibn Kathir, Islam's most respected interpreter of the Qur'an, and to Muhammad's companion, Ibn Abbas. Tell it to Maududi.

Maududi put it this way:

Here, one should bear in mind the fact that according to the explanations given in the Quran the question of the waiting period arises in respect of the women with whom marriage may have been consummated, for there is no waiting-period in case divorce is pronounced before the consummation of marriage. (Qur'an 33:49). Therefore, making mention of the waiting-period for the girls who have not yet menstruated, clearly proves that it is not only permissible to give away the girl in marriage at this age but it is also permissible for the husband to consummate marriage with her. Now, obviously no Muslim has the right to forbid a thing which the Quran has held as permissible.

Yemen: No law protecting children against early marriages

It was every little girl’s dream - she was to get a new dress, jewellery, sweets and a party for all her friends. What 10-year-old Aisha* did not know was that after the wedding party she would have to leave school, move to a village far from her parents’ home, cook and clean all day, and have sex with her older husband. “He took out a special sheet and laid me down on it,” Aisha told IRIN, wringing her small plump hands. “After it, I started bleeding. It was so painful that I was crying and shouting, and since then I have seen him as death.”

A bill passed in parliament in February 2009 setting the minimum age for marriage at 17 was rejected by the Islamic Sharia Codification Committee which said it was un-Islamic, according to local women’s rights organizations.

So, for now, there is no law protecting children against early marriages in Yemen.

”I don’t call it marriage, but rape,” said Shada Mohammed Nasser, a lawyer at the High Court in Sanaa. She has represented several child bride divorce cases in court, but admits she has lost most of them. Only a handful of child brides have successfully managed to divorce their husbands.

A girl can be married at just nine, but cannot legally seek a divorce until she is 15 or older. The money paid by the husband for his “wife” is a further obstacle to divorce, while the case can only be heard in a court in the governorate where the marriage took place...

(...)

No founder of a world religion has any business marrying a child and then screwing her. This escapes you completely.

As for Abu Bakr, he failed his daughter miserably. Well, for that matter, so have many Muslim fathers through the centuries, whether by way of child brides, honor killings, beatings for warped reasons of honor or other Muslim rot posing as something beneficial.

Islam is a perversion of what a religion should be. This will be a major reason why it eventually comes to be looked upon by mankind as one of the greatest errors in man's history. Loads of violence and intolerance unless Islam, just like a child, gets its way, with death and body parts aplenty, are yet other reasons. And there are many more reasons still, stupidity and silliness among them.

Face it, Islam is on the defensive just as you are. Get use to it. You want respect for Islam and Mohammed. Ain't gonna' get it. Ever. Count on this.

"observe that the Mohammedan poster 'D' above seems to think that Jews and Christians approach their texts in the same way as the Mohammedans approach Mohammedan texts."

The present day Jews and Christians seem to have this silly idea that THEY can decide what they must follow and what they shouldn't follow. I'm afraid laws don't work like that, I can't drive a car at 50 MPH when the signs says 40 MPH and later tell the police officer that those signs were "descriptive" only for when they were first put up. It's fucking bullshit, if you can't get away with it in life what makes you think you can get away woth it in the afterlife. According to the bible you can beat your slaves to deaath and you'de be justified. End of!

"Because he thinks that, he seems to think he can cherry-pick a few verses and use them to pull an Alinsky style trick on us."

Isn't that what Robert Spencer's sad career is all about, you really thnk he studied the entire Quran he just repeats a few verses over and over, heck he doesn't even speak Arabic so he can't have read the original form of the Quran. It's funny though how you don't wanna play when the ball is in my court and I'm the one throwing bible verses around and then pointing at christians for claiming that this book is the divine word of God.

"D, present your casuistry to the famous mainstream Islamic authorities who disagree with you. Present it to Ibn Kathir, Islam's most respected interpreter of the Qur'an, and to Muhammad's companion, Ibn Abbas. Tell it to Maududi.

Maududi put it this way:"

In Islam there are 4 main schools of thoughts known as mathabs. These schools of thoughts are: Hanafi, Shafi, Maliki and Habai. I suggest you read this again:

Malik, al-Shafa'i and Abu Hanifa said: the marriage may be consummated when the girl is able for intercourse, which varies from one girl to another, so no age limit can be set. This is the correct view. There is nothing in the hadith of Aisha to set an age limit, or to forbid that in the case of a girl who is able for it before the age of nine, or to allow it in the case of a girl who is not able for it and has reached the age of nine. Al-Dawudi said: Aisha (may Allah be pleased with her) reached physical maturity (at the time when her marriage was consummated)." (Imam Nawawi's: Sharh Sahih Muslim - Book Of Marriage - Source).

These are the top scholars in Islam, the leaders of the mathabs, they have more knowledge than any of the scholars that you've mentioned. the Imam malik was born less than a century after the death of the prophet Muhammed, his grandfather knew the prophet personally. I site you the 4 great scholars and you site me Abul Ala Maududi??? A scholar that was born in 1907, at the time MY OWN grandfather was born?? Are you having a laugh???

As for Ibn Kathir it's pretty clear what he thinks marrigible age should be:

Ibn Kathir's tafsir - Surah Nisa 4:6:
"(until they reach the age of marriage), the age of puberty, according to Mujahid."

Here is Ibn Abbas's tafsir:

Ibn Abbas' tafsir - Surah Nisa 4:6:
"(Prove orphans) test the intelligence of orphans (till they reach the marriageable age) the age of puberty..."

I don't really care what Maududi, believes when all the major scholars in Islam agree that marrige should be after puberty and consumation should most deffinatly occur after a girl or boy attains puberty.

"D, instead of trying to sell your delusions to gullible non-Muslims, why don't you present your sophistry to the 9-year old girls who find themselves married off to middle-aged men in, say, Yemen? Why don't you tell the jurists in Yemen who make it permissible to marry 9-year olds"

Then you go on to sell me some bullshit about the laws in Yemen. Yemen is A DICTATORSHIP ran by a bloodthirsty murderer called Ali Abdullah Saleh who orders his troops to shoot at peacefull protesters, his parliment is dominated by a party that stands for everything that contradicts the shariah, he is the puppet of the United States and sho is his Vice president Mansour Hadi who he haded power to not too long ago. If the prophet was alive today or any of his companians he would have sentenced the ENTIRE YEMENESE GOVERMENT TO DEATH BY STONING! Take it to the bank!

As for me reccomending an early age marrige why should I do this??? I don't live in 570 CE Arabia nor have any of my parents married at that age. It's not part of my culture, just like I drive a car instead of ride a camel. I also wouldn't marry a 40 year old when I'm in my 20's. Was I ordered by Allah to do so. In imam Shafi believes that marrying prebuscent child before she reaches puberty (even if the marrige isn't consumated) is not reccomended. Muhammad's marrige to Aisha was an exception because Allah ordered the prophet to marry her.

Some scholars even stated it's not recommended to marry before pubescent, unless there is an Islamically valid reason or valid opportunity:

"It should be noted that Shafa'i and his companions stated: It is mustahab (preferred) for fathers and grandfathers not to marry off the virgin until she reaches puberty and they ask her consent, lest she end up in a marriage she dislikes. What they said doesn't contradict the hadith of Aisha, since what they meant is that they shouldn't marry her off before she reaches puberty if there's no obvious interest to, that they fear will be missed out on if they delay it, as given in the hadith of Aisha. In that case, it's recommended to marry because the father is commanded to take care of his child's interests and not missing out."

وَاعْلَمْ أَنَّ الشَّافِعِيَّ وَأَصْحَابَهُ قَالُوا : وَيُسْتَحَبُّ أنْ لَا يُزَوِّجَ الْأَبُ وَالْجَدُّ الْبِكْرَ حَتَّى تَبْلُغَ ، وَيَسْتَأْذِنُهَا لِئَلَّا يُوقِعَهَا فِي أَسْرِ الزَّوْجِ وَهِيَ كَارِهَةٌ ، وَهَذَا الَّذِي قَالُوهُ لَا يُخَالِفُ حَدِيثَ عَائِشَةَلِأَنَّ ؛ لِأَنَّ مُرَادَهُمْ أَنَّهُ لَا يُزَوِّجُهَا قَبْلَ الْبُلُوغِ إِذَا لَمْ تَكُنْ مَصْلَحَةٌ ظَاهِرَةٌ يَخَافُ فَوْتَهَا بِالتَّأْخِيرِ كَحَدِيثِ عَائِشَةَ ، فَيُسْتَحَبُّ تَحْصِيلُ ذَلِكَ الزَّوْجِلِأَنَّ ؛ لِأَنَّ الْأَبَ مَأْمُورٌ بِمَصْلَحَةِ وَلَدِهِ فَلَا يُفَوِّتُهَا . وَاللَّهُ أَعْلَمُ

http://hadith.al-islam.com/Page.aspx?pageid=192&BookID=34&TOCID=623

Thankyou for asking me about my religion

Memo to D: Allah was Mohammed's sock puppet. There is no Allah. It's one of the greatest fictions in the history of man.

Hey, "D".

Actually, I AM a Literature Professor. So for today's lesson, I would like you to read again the words you wrote above:

" the universe is estimated to be around 13.7 billion years old so if God's word needed an "enlightment" don't you think he would have made this "enlighment" millions of years before we even came into existance (sic)."
______________________________

You know what, DMohammedist (cum Naseem?), this is one of the few times when I feel no need to rebut anything you've said. In fact, it would be impossible - since you're already intellectually dead. The evidence is above.

You are one, warped Mohammedist.

But hey! Why don't you wax wise a little bit more and tell us all about Jesus - the one you said was an imposter - the one you guys say wasn't crucified that afternoon at Golgotha.

Please! Educate us some more. Oh - and by the way - learn to spell, "prescriptive", ok? It's making me want to give you an "F" for the day.

BAD Mohammedist!!! Tsk, tsk, tsk!

D's discursus on dolls put me in mind of a couple of ideas:

For people below puberty, they can play with dolls which have a face. For post pubertal people, the[y] can play only with those dolls which do not have faces.

And not just the face matters, apparently:

"With regard to those in which the shape is incomplete, in which there is only a part of the limbs or head, but the shape is not clear, there is no doubt that these are permissible... (Narrated in al-Bukhaari, 6130; Muslim, 2440).

Why is this important? Because, without faces and/or without recognizably zoological formation, ...they were not considered to be idols.

"D" fleshes (pun intended) this out with his Muslim opinion:

But if the shape is complete, and it is as if you are looking at a person - especially if it can move or speak - then I am not entirely at ease with the idea of them being permissible, because this is a complete imitation of the creation of Allaah.

I've already been familiar with this idea of Islam forbidding idol-worship and images of living creatures; what interests me more here are a couple of things revealed in between the lines. For now, I'll just allude to these things for which I do not currently have links to sources that may verify whatever claims may be implied in my presentation.

1. A fairly common idea in ancient Gnosticism, also preserved (critically, not supportively) in medieval Rabbinic mythological speculation: the Satan figure (whether named or not) is also a "Demiurge" who competes with the true God by attempting to create living things which, because he's not God and does not have creative power, turn out to be half-formed, stunted, zombie-like creatures (the golem of medieval Jewish myth). Perhaps what's going on between the lines of the Islamic proscription of forms looking like truly living beings is the Satan-God Allah forbidding his minions from honoring the true God's creation in art and liturgy -- yet permitting such a possibility as long as the forms are defaced and deformed into their appropriately golem-like appearance, as would please the Demiurge (Allah).

2. Notice the references "D" makes to one way of rendering unfit dolls into permissible dolls: beheading:

But if a person wants to be on the safe side in such matters, he should cut off the head...

He also adds the luridly weird advice:

... or hold it near the fire until it softens, then he should press it until the features disappear." -- this, of course, having a source in an official (and officially insane) Islamic fatwa: "(Majmoo' Fataawa al-Shaykh Muhammad ibn 'Uthaymeen (may Allaah have mercy on him), 2/277-278, cited here)"

Thus, my second thought, expanding on the first: The Islamic penchant for beheading, and for rampant disfiguring of the enemy with knives (as well as with fire and acid, not to mention the stones that reduce women to a bloody pulp in stonings; or the savage clitorectomies that are, and have been for centuries, pandemic throughout the Muslim world) may well be an extension of the doll-defacing impulse: go after not merely artistic renderings of God's creation, but also attack God's artwork itself -- the creatures He has created, and try to destroy, decapitate, deface, disfigure them in your Satanic frenzy of obeying the evil Demiurge who throughout all history tries to compete with God but, knowing deep down he really can't, opts for lashing out destructively instead: "If you can't Create, Destroy".

And it's not just human creatures Muslims like to disfigure, but as this report indicates, animal torture is common among Muslims too:

http://www.jihadwatch.org/2012/08/afghan-soldier-ally-murders-two-more-us-troops.html

Aside from these general thoughts I had on reading the posts of "D", another one just occurred to me. If those hadiths are accurate, it seems that Aisha possibly demonstrated a pathology of arrested development, playing with dolls long past her appropriate age -- perhaps her confused way of trying to hold on to a lost childhood, violently and insidiously stolen from her by the rape and psychologically perverse seduction imposed upon her by Mohammed.

D, you pretend Yemen as a dictatorship is the exception among Muslim-majority countries. But Yemen is much more typical than not.

Human Rights and Islam

Check out these bar charts from the international human rights organization Freedom House. The bar chart for the Middle East/North Africa -- the core Islamic region -- shows it to be the most unfree area in the world.

Even Indonesia, sometimes touted as an example of Islamic freedom and democracy, has religious I.D. cards, prison terms for proselytizing the "wrong" religions, and Islamic law spreading in one of its major provinces.

muhammad (may he rot in the 7 Hells) was nothing more than a delusional coward, a pedophile, a flat-out treacherous murderer of children and those he claimed to be allies of and a textbook cult founder/leader.
It's all right there in the quran and hadith, folks, for ALL to see.

Messenger...that's a good one, he was nothing more than a messenger of intolerance, despotism, slavery and death.

D, you might be able to fool some folks, but those of us with functioning minds have read the quran and hadith for ourselves, and it's nothing more than a tome of atrocity, mindless hatred, intolerance and a blanket justification for it's own goals under the guise of 'allah' and service to that fictional entity.
There will be NO global caliphate, NO global shariah and we will take our nations back. Our forefathers fought, and if we must also, we will.
We're learning every day more and more about muslims like you, and how far you're willing to go--and as the saying goes, fight fire with fire.
70 years ago it was the Nazis, now it's islamism...same crapola, different wrapper--tyranny is tyranny.

YOU and your would-be world-conqueror muslim buddies brought this to our doorsteps and expect us to just show belly and kow to your insipid and utterly impotent god-figure, or you'll kill us?!?
Because 'allah wills it'?
We're supposed to kow because an impotent fictional entity 'demands' it???

For every apologist and PolCorr Liberal type that mindlessly mouths your praises and remains willfully blind to your bloodthirsty, tyrannical, cult that wrongfully seeks dominion over people's lives there are thousands of us who are willing to fight for our Freedom and for our future against 'the religion of peace'.
The ONLY 'peace' islam ever brings is the peace of the dead after to guns have stopped cutting down the usual targets--unarmed people.

And as for this dipwit fool, and I quote him below...

"Safwat Higazi: Absolutely not. It was the 1973 war that brought peace. If not for the Egyptian victory in that war, there would be no peace. How come there was no peace before the 1973 war?...
One of the tenets of the Muslim Brotherhood, which they cannot renounce, is the Islamic Caliphate and the ruling of the world. Yes. The day will come when we will be the masters of the world.

He's so deluded and dull-witted he thinks that it's going to happen. It won't, count on that.
The Nazis and others all felt the same way, 'Manifest Destiny' it's called, and a fave of megalomanics.
They all ended up the same way.
Failures.
DEAD failures.

Islam is a cult, like Jom Jones had, the Moonies, and so many others.
It exactly fits the paradigm and that's all there is to it, including how it so micromanages people's lives and dispenses harsh negative reinforcement for even the smallest infractions to the end of the people inside it can no longer think independently nor critically.
Just like any other cult that seeks total control of it's followers and everyone else.

We're Watching.
People Are waking Up.
Soon our politicians will have to do as we the people say, or they'll lose their positions and we'll vote in those who will help us in the battle against theocratical islam and islamism.

http://www.jihadwatch.org/2012/03/sion-to-hold-international-congress-and-media-workshop-to-address-islamic-supremacist-war-against-fr.html

We've Got Our Eyes On You.