UK: Pharmacist who made sexual remarks to female colleagues let off because of his “restrictive Muslim background”

Now wait a minute. Islamic supremacists, as well as their media enablers, constantly tell us that Muslims are outraged by Western immodesty and licentiousness, whereas they are all-holy, pure, spotless, and above all that. And so how is it that Khalil Jamil’s behavior doesn’t constitute sexual harassment just because he came from a “restrictive Muslim background”? It looks much more likely to me that he believes all non-Muslim women are whores who will have sex with anyone and everyone, and was trying to get in on the action.

More in the mind-numbing and endless March of Dhimmitude in Absurd Britannia: “Pharmacist asked colleague about her favourite love-making position ‘because he came from a restrictive Muslim background,'” by Kerry Mcqueeney in the Daily Mail, August 31 (thanks to David):

A pharmacist who made crude remarks to three of his female colleagues has escaped with a warning after a panel heard he came from a ‘restrictive Muslim background’ and was unaware of the offence his conduct had caused.

Khalil Jamil asked one of the women about her favourite love-making position and quizzed another about the mating habits of her horses – but a professional panel ruled his behaviour was not sexually motviated [sic].

The General Pharmaceutical Council panel found Jamil acted inappropriately by making the comments and standing too close to his assistants.

However, they accepted that his background in a strict Muslim community meant he was unfamiliar to working in such an open environment with women and his basic social skills meant he lacked understanding of appropriate conduct.

Note the paternalism. Once again we see the hidden ethnocentrism of the avowedly multicultural.

As the remarks were not sexually motivated the panel cleared Jamil of misconduct and gave him an official warning.

It also took into consideration the fact that Jamil had remedied his actions by attending a ‘dignity at work’ course.

Panel chairman Patrick Malmo QC said: “˜He felt the source of this behaviour in 2009, was that he comes from a very restrictive background, with little social life, and none at all outside of his own community.

“˜He lacked social skills, and had little knowledge of how one should be when working with colleagues.

“˜He was unable to distinguish between friendliness and over familiarity.”

Mr Malmo added: “˜We do not think there is a serious risk of this kind of conduct being repeated.

“˜Although we do not find the registrant impaired, we have the ability to issue a warning, and given the circumstances of this case, we believe it is necessary to do so.”

In a statement read to the hearing one of Jamil’s colleagues, referred to as CH, said she was working with Jamil at the Cooperative Pharmacy in Fauldhouse, West Lothian, in July 2009, when he asked: “˜Do you have a boyfriend? Do you want a boyfriend?”

She said: “˜Whenever it went quiet he came back to me and stood close again. He asked me if I was into sports, I said “No”.

“˜He said he was into boxing and said feel my stomach. He grabbed my wrist and tried to get me to touch his stomach.’

Jamil had told the hearing that he had no desire to be in a relationship with the woman saying: “˜I suppose I was showing off, at the time, that I train, I work hard.’

He made similar remarks to another assistant, referred to only as SS, while he was working as a locum at a Morrisons pharmacy in St Andrews, Fife, in November 2009.

The pharmacist approached her while she was at the computer at and asked her if she had a boyfriend and how she liked to have sex with him.

A similar incident occurred the following week in which he put his arms around her waist.

A third woman, known as SR, was working at the same pharmacy when Jamil stood close to her that as she bent down to pick up some prescriptions, she could not help but back into him.

She added that he had asked if getting her horses” castrated had affected the animals” sex drives and whether it would have the same effect on a man.

He had admitted that all the incidents took place but denied any possible sexual motivation.

Speaking afterwards Graham Edwards, said on behalf of Mr Jamil: “˜I think the panel’s decision was overall correct….

“˜The duration of the inquiry into these matters, being three years, has caused Mr Jamil and his family to be emotionally damaging, at a great deal financial of cost.”

The poor fellow! “Islamophobia” claims yet another victim!

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Comments

  1. says

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  2. says

    On the blog site “Answering Muslims,” this little gem was posted yesterday, and it goes right along with this article.

    “Anjem Choudary Calls for More Muslim Babies . . . in Order to Take Over Great Britain
    Hmmm. If I say, “Islam commands its followers to take over the world, and some Muslims want to do so,” I’m immediately labeled a racist, a hate-monger, a bigot, and an Islamophobe. And yet we find Muslims around the world saying the exact same things that I say. Are they Islamophobes too?”

    This is just another snap shot of the down fall of England. England is doomed … and I don’t say that with glee, I say that with great, great saddness.

    America is right behind her …

    Aprilyn

    the web address is,

    http://www.answeringmuslims.com/2012/08/anjem-choudary-calls-for-more-muslim.html?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+answeringmuslims%2FynNl+%28Answering+Muslims%29

  3. says

    Apparently they haven’t discovered that Muslim anti-semetic types, stoners, head choppers, rapists, and other Sharia law enforcers also come from ‘restrictive Muslim backgrounds’.

    It’s clear they haven’t done their homework on Islam..

  4. says

    Panel chairman Patrick Malmo QC said: “He felt the source of this behaviour in 2009, was that he comes from a very restrictive background, with little social life, and none at all outside of his own community”….”He lacked social skills, and had little knowledge of how one should be when working with colleagues” – precisely why these wild beasts should never be allowed to live amongst civilized people to begin with

    “He was unable to distinguish between friendliness and over familiarity” – This malmo moron hasn’t got a clue about how sexually depraved muzlum men are; he obviously hasn’t heard about the muzlums sex grooming gangs of young British girls.

    He also sounds guilt of the soft bigotry of low expectations…

  5. says

    If he was a non-muslim they wouldn’t be diverting attention with ridiculous verbiage like that, they would be calling him a sex offender, sexual harasser, creep, predator, would-be rapist, sexist, pig, misogynist…. etc. but just because he’s a pedohammedan, he’s just a victim… a victim of circumstances, islam and its views, teachings about women had nothing to do with it.

  6. says

    So Jamil said none of his actions “had a sexual connotation”…. Really?

    Putting his hand around a coworker’s waist, asking another to feel his stomach, or standing so close to a third as she bent over that she had to back into him had no sexual meaning????

    O, I get it! He was really not thinking of the woman coworker, but rather of a camel, or a donkey, or a young boy from Paradise, or maybe a 9 year old minor child-wife….. Well in that case, it must be all right. Bravos to the non-judgemental English law system!

    (Of course…. all Jamil’s terrorist friends are not really terrorists must also merely lack his social skills… )

  7. says

    Instructive how many times Islam functions as an excuse for gross or slimy behavior by Muslim men which is then exculpated by useful idiots. Ah, the burden which is Islam marches on, aided by obsequious dhimmis.

    Well, seems until Muslim men are told in no uncertain terms not to act like pigs (yeah, ironic, no?) non-Muslim women will continue to be treated basically like hookers. Disgusting but oh so very Islamic.

    And as an aside, I might add were I a woman and know as much about Islam as I do, Muslim men would be a group of men I would not want to spend any time with. Indeed, I’d go out of my way to avoid them if at all possible. Am I prejudiced for saying this? You bet I am. I’m also prejudiced against, let’s see, Neo-Nazis, Maoists, Satanists, KKK members and, at least in the Fall, Baltimore Ravens fans.

  8. says

    @londonjim – yes indeed this Malmo needs to read up about how not only in Malmo but all over Sweden pervert muzlum men make native Swedish girls’ lives miserable with sexual harrassment and rape

  9. says

    Seems to me that the given explanation makes sense. I have met immigrant males who were more assimilated than this guy who were so soxially ‘awkward’ in matters relating to sex and women that it was absurd. It would be very easy for someone like this to simply be having trouble coping as an adult with things that Westerners deal with by the age of 12 or 13.
    Give him the benefit of the doubt and see what he does in the future; with this on his record if he gets written upo again he will have no excuse left; if he does not re-offend then an immigrant Muslim is on his way to assimilation. Either way it is more just than ruining his career while pretending to be outraged.
    Come on Robert, think about some of the things you surely did or said between 10 and 14 and give the guy a break… unless he shows no reform.

  10. says

    Hang on – why would someone’s “strict Muslim background” result in such sexually harassing behaviour? It should make the Muslim more modest and respectful, not less, surely?! Or is the court, with this judgment, implying something else here??

  11. says

    She added that he had asked if getting her horses’ castrated had affected the animals’ sex drives and whether it would have the same effect on a man.
    She should taken that as an invitation and provided him with empirical proof.
    [snip, snip]

  12. says

    The “restrictive muslim background” excuse has been used before: Daily Telegraph Dec 6th 2011

    A gang of Somalian women who repeatedly kicked a young woman in the head walked free from court after a judge heard they were “not used to being drunk” because they were Muslim.
    The four women – three sisters and their cousin – were told the charge of actual bodily harm, which carries a maximum sentence of five years, against 22-year-old care worker Rhea Page would normally land them in custody.
    However, the judge handed the women suspended sentences after hearing that they were not used to alcohol because their religion does not allow it.
    Miss Page said Ambaro Maxamed, 24, Ayan Maxamed, 28, and Hibo Maxamed, 24, and their 28-year-old cousin Ifrah Nur screamed “Kill the white slag” while kicking her in the head as she lay motionless on the ground.

  13. says

    I am reading an interesting book by the author of ‘Devil in the White City’ Erik Larson. The book is called ‘In the Garden of the Beasts’ it is the true story of the US Ambassador to Hitlers’ Germany in 1933. The change in Am. Dodd’s family from being willing to give Hitler a chance and how Dodd felt a good talking to Hitler would change the way the nazi’s behaved toward Jews. (Dodd was a professor before being an Ambassador.) It is so uncanny that the believe of giving peace a chance and the assurances of Germany’s polictico of ‘we really want peace’ fooled the rest of the world into giving Hitler time. The three monkeys of hear no evil, speak no evil and see no evil were at play in 1933. And today.

  14. says

    “However, they accepted that his background in a strict Muslim community meant he was unfamiliar to working in such an open environment with women and his basic social skills meant he lacked understanding of appropriate conduct.”

    Did they accept that he never watched television, listened to the radio or read the newspapers during his entire stay in England? That he never saw a poster campange against sexual harrasment while on the public transport?

    Because that is the only way he could have not known what he was doing.

    His employees are lucky he never drank around them. That would have allowed him, according to British “law”, to beat the crap out of them and get away with it.

  15. says

    As a Muslim, how is it that he’s working–and in such close proximity–to women to which he is not related?

  16. says

    I am shocked! that his muslim culture taught him this kind of crude behavior towards women–especially since the quran is HOLY, right? Wrong! …the quran actually encourages men to be sexual predators like this dirtbag.

  17. says

    Just another reason not to hire barbarians. Warning to Muslim barrows who believe they might try this with any woman in my family or circle of friends. DON’T.

  18. says

    That excuse is moronic. Such an excuse would make sense if he came from a completely opposite upbringing: if he lived in a whorehouse filled with drug dealers and non-stop orgies. In that situation, a person could be somewhat excused for not knowing how to properly treat women.

    But for a guy raised in an ultra-orthodox, sexually-conservative culture, where sexual comments are forbidden absolutely? This type of person would be conditioned to dance around such issues and be prudish in his approach to woman and sexuality. That judge is an idiot.

  19. says

    @IstanbulChick, Wellington, and others.

    This post and other remind me of my college days. I can’t say I was the most gentlemanly native-born American male back in those Sillier ‘Seventies, but the behavior of those guys from Islamic countries was utterly appalling, especially–forgive me, Miriam Rove–the Iranians and Saudis. Back then, I decided that if I ever had a daughter, and I heard she was dating a Muslim, I’d have her invite the guy over and I’d be sure to be cleaning my shotgun and sharpening my bowie knives when he showed up, and tell him we were serving hog’s testicles which I’d just whacked off.

    Well, God did not bless us with a daughter.

    But, what shocked me all the more was that when the Pahlavi regime started to crumble, every leftist fearsome feminist in America was out there supporting those rapist wannabes as they called for the overthrow of the very regime that was paying for their graduate educations.

    The article posted makes me sigh to realize that once-Great Britain is now going down the tubes. I have some fond memories of a vacation spent in England; and, as a history buff, I tend to be respectful of the older Britain hated by every IRA-supporter in the American Northeast.

  20. says

    UK: Pharmacist who made sexual remarks to female colleagues let off because of his “restrictive Muslim background”

    Now wait a minute. Islamic supremacists, as well as their media enablers, constantly tell us that Muslims are outraged by Western immodesty and licentiousness, whereas they are all-holy, pure, spotless, and above all that. And so how is it that Khalil Jamil’s behavior doesn’t constitute sexual harassment just because he came from a “restrictive Muslim background”? It looks much more likely to me that he believes all non-Muslim women are whores who will have sex with anyone and everyone, and was trying to get in on the action.
    ……………………………………..

    Very, very true. Betty Mahmoody”and many other Infidel women in Dar-al-Islam”tell of Muslims assuming they would f*ck any and all Muslim men because they were “Kaffir whores”.

    This is appalling enough in the Muslim world”now, apparently, decent Infidel women have to deal with this filth in the civilized world, as well.

    Just like the rape statistics in the West”in the past five years, *all* stranger rapes in Oslo have been committed by Muslims.

    More:

    More in the mind-numbing and endless March of Dhimmitude in Absurd Britannia: “Pharmacist asked colleague about her favourite love-making position ‘because he came from a restrictive Muslim background,'”
    ……………………………………..

    More of that Islamic “elevation of women”, apparently…sarc/off

    More:

    A pharmacist who made crude remarks to three of his female colleagues has escaped with a warning after a panel heard he came from a ‘restrictive Muslim background’ and was unaware of the offence his conduct had caused.
    ……………………………………..

    Wouldn’t that make him *more* chivalrous toward women? sarc/off Even the dhimmis realize what rot this is”but this doesn’t stop them from allowing Muslims to use it as an excuse…

    More:

    Khalil Jamil asked one of the women about her favourite love-making position and quizzed another about the mating habits of her horses – but a professional panel ruled his behaviour was not sexually motviated [sic]…

    In a statement read to the hearing one of Jamil’s colleagues, referred to as CH, said she was working with Jamil at the Cooperative Pharmacy in Fauldhouse, West Lothian, in July 2009, when he asked: “Do you have a boyfriend? Do you want a boyfriend?’…

    “He said he was into boxing and said feel my stomach. He grabbed my wrist and tried to get me to touch his stomach.’…

    The pharmacist approached her while she was at the computer at and asked her if she had a boyfriend and how she liked to have sex with him…
    ……………………………………..

    What could *possibly* be sexually motivated about these statements? sarc/off

    More:

    “The duration of the inquiry into these matters, being three years, has caused Mr Jamil and his family to be emotionally damaging, at a great deal financial of cost.’

    The poor fellow! “Islamophobia” claims yet another victim!
    ……………………………………..

    Harassing women: not sexually motivated, and not serious. Being investigated for harassing women: emotionally damaging.

    Have the “politically correct” ever stopped to think about the “brave new world” they are making here? I shudder to think…

  21. says

    As I’ve said before, the PC MC respect for Muslims trumps all other PC MC respect for various other privileged groups — in this case women (feminism).

    We’ve seen plenty of evidence over the years of this tendency with regard to putting Muslims before gays & lesbians; blacks; non-white and/or non-Western Christians; Jews; and… who am I leaving out? As I noticed years ago, Muslims have become for PC MC the #1 Privileged Minority, and every other minority (forget about the Western majority) has to be thrown under the bus if they come in conflict with Muslims.

    This wouldn’t be much of a problem, of course, were PC MC not the mainstream sociocultural worldview throughout the West.

    Note for newcomers: PC MC does not denote “Leftism”, but rather a worldview derived from Leftism that is sufficiently decaffeinated and diluted of its Leftist roots such that — at least with regard to the problem of Islam — the vast majority of conservatives, centrists and the comfortably apolitical/irreligious swallow and regurgitate it, all day long.

  22. says

    There should now be PSA’s for all females in the West who go about without burkas and hijabs and niqabs and anything else that would indicate that she is non-muslim: if a muslim male speaks to you about boyfriends, sex and other sex-related stuff…be prepared. He may get away with it. He may get away with touching and grabbing and sexual harassing speech. If he can convince enough people in positions of authority that he wasn’t “thinking” of sex and “not wanting a relationship” he may keep his job…sitting, standing and working right next to you…or attending school, etc. Be prepared, have a plan of action.
    Each day…more disturbing accounts. Where are Adams, Jefferson, Franklin? Gone.

    But for those who believe: call on God for help against this plague.

  23. says

    Well, turns out a work colleague who likes boasting about his travels has decided to embark on a trip to….. Iran!!

    On a previous trip to Pakistan, he talked of his sister – who he took with her – “almost being raped” while on a train… he said it as calmly as if he was talking about drinking a cup of tea!

    This time, the group going to the Islamic Republic will contain a blonde chick. More – a stunning blonde chick. Wonder how that’s going to work out… Any guesses???

  24. says

    So I take it from the story that this yahoo never got “lucky” with any of the infidel women he was harrassing? Since his family was reported to have endured anguish, was that including his wife?

  25. says

    Why are there so many Asians in pharmacies anyway and is it another profession almost totally taken over by them similar to the IT industry where British engineers are on the dole while Indians are employed in vast numbers?

  26. says

    Hijab alone is not sufficient to deter a predatory muslim male. It is also necessary for a muslim woman outside of her home to be accompanied by her husband or mahram.

  27. says

    Green Infidel and somehistory, thanks for your personal insights into your “learning curve” on Islam.

    A couple of years ago, under another name (a nickname that apparently still lives in infamy among some here), I posted a long comment (I titled it “Mt. Jihad Watch”) about my own odyssey toward increasing Islamoliteracy:

    http://www.jihadwatch.org/2010/08/jihad-watch-hotter-than-hot-air.html#comment-703103

    Some day (one hopes soon), a mainstream news venue will do a profile of the types of people who are “in the counter-jihad” in order to show not that they fit a monolithic stereotype of the redneck troglodyte, but rather that they are a varied demographic from a variety of backgrounds and with a variety of social and political views defying any easy categorization.

    I don’t know what it is that distinguishes “Us” (we who “get it”) from “Them” (they who don’t); if we were all right-wing yahoos, that would explain it. But we’re not. And, in fact, there are quite a few right-wingers, Tea Party types, who don’t seem to get the problem of Islam — at least not beyond any understanding more or less framed by the TMOE paradigm (the “Tiny Minority of Extremists”).

    So I wonder what makes us different. It doesn’t seem like we’re different. Most of the people, in the West, who don’t get it (yet) are reasonably, relatively decent and intelligent people, ranging on a spectrum from liberal to conservative (as well as many reflecting that vast uncounted swath of a demographic, the complaisantly apolitical), and there’s nothing much I can tell that differentiates us from most of them (not talking about the actual Leftists, who I maintain are a minority in the West)… So why do we get it, but they don’t?

  28. says

    another thing to consider is this: western women are always depicted as being loose. I for one was under this impression before I came to the states. I remmeber there was a soap, I/we used to watch. it was called Payton’s Place. I am not sure if anyone remmbers this soap. because the sexes are so segregated there, when I was watching it it was like all these women jump from one bed to another. so my thinking was the same way until I came here. It was wishful thinking!!!! the tragedy here is these muslims when they come here, they are too blided by their religion to see that is not how it is. This bastard knew exactly what he was saying and what he meant to say. as usual, mulims get away with it.
    M

  29. says

    “another thing to consider is this: western women are always depicted as being loose. I for one was under this impression before I came to the states.”

    Miriam, I’ve often wondered how many times you got your arse handed to you by angry, offended American women before you realized that all you’d “learned” in dar al islam about Western women was utter nonsense. :)

    I handed more than my fair share of arses back to piggish, thuggish Turkish muslim supremacists.

    I remember years before going to Turkey the company I worked for hired a young Moroccan and deemed it wise to make me his mentor. After a week working together mo junior (who BTW WAS named mohammad) took it upon himself to grab my shirt (a typical button up business style blouse)while he was standing over me as I sat at my desk and make some comment about how women should not expose themselves like that and make men look at them lustfully.

    Before he could finish his woman hating islamic “culture” fueled attack on my person I had his thumb in a bent back position and him on his knees and told him in no uncertain terms did any man have any right to grab a woman like that and NO ONE told him to or invited him to look down my blouse. One of my male (American, real male, not some weak egoed muslim supremacists) stepped in, took the muslim supremacist aside and explained to him about American culture, American women in general and THIS American woman in particular. The little creep left spewing the typical muslim threats and insults at all of us in the office.

    He never returned to work.

    This, of course, was during the Reagan era before the twin evils of PC/MC reared their ugly heads. Had it happened today, no doubt, I would have been terminated and sued and accused by cair, aclu, splc, and every leftist twit on twitter of being a racist islamophobe.

    Unfortunately at the time I was absolutely a brainless, clueless moral and cultural relativist who was too stupid to make the connection between his unacceptable behavior and his “culture” (islamic). I chalked it up to him being a jerk.

    Fortunately I’ve learned that islam and the cultures it has tainted consistently and without fail produces jerks by the boatload.

  30. says

    Your post amounts to: Look, we all make mistakes. Give the guy a break.

    But the article isn’t about a guy who has made a mistake. It’s about a dhimmi system that refuses to understand that this Muslim’s apparent social ineptitude was caused by a ‘conservative’ Muslim upbringing: ‘conservative’ meaning that sex and how to deal with the opposite sex was missing.

    Crap! He, like all Muslim men, has been brought up to believe that every infidel clitoris on the planet is up for grabs. And infidel women can be asked how they have sex with their boyfriends simply because they are infidel women!

    Think about it; if Muslim women can be honor-murdered, beaten and have acid thrown in their faces, then what can infidel women expect?

    It’s about an attitude ingrained by a so-called religion that is unfeeling, brutal and brutalizing.

  31. says

    i got my ass kicked a few times!!!!!!!!!just kidding!! a coleague of mine here who is a beatiful woman decided to take a trip to Tunesia with her husband 5 years ago. I told he to be careful. at first she thought I was talking about jewelery etc… and then i said no. be sure to dress up modestly and becareful where not to go. she went and came back a few days cutting her trip short. I asked why and she said every where she went men pinched her ass!!!!!!!!!!
    M

  32. says

    I think I understand what you’ve written fairly well, Kepha And thanks for it (particularly the “hog’s testicles” part).

    Islam and its stupid friend, modern leftism, are arguably the worst twin idiocies in all of history. Can’t think of a worse combination, though I guess the Nazi/Imperial Japan one can give it a run for its money. But the heinous German/Japanese alignment was destined to be short term, while the Islam and modern leftism combo looks like it has much more staying power, hence my conviction that this wretched matching is the worst “combo” of all time (thanks for nothing once again, clueless leftists).

    Hope you and yours are well. Will look forward to more enlightened posts by you. Take care, my friend.

  33. says

    Slightly OT but Aprilyn you wrote ” down fall of England. England is doomed “. These events actually happened sadly in Scotland which is not now or ever been a part of England.The word England is not interchangeable with the word Britain

  34. says

    tommo

    The point of this story is not about ‘Asians’ versus ‘British’, nor even about pharmacy as a profession.

    The point of this news story is that a MUSLIM employee in a pharmacy (and he might have been employed in a hospital, and harassing nurses, or been employed in a supermarket and been harassing the checkout chicks whilst engaged in stocktaking and shelving) was vulgarly ogling and harassing his NONMUSLIM female colleagues. For all we know, one of the women thus harassed might have been a Hindu of Indian ethnicity, one might have been ‘white’ nominally-Christian British, and one might have been black, fervently Christian, and of West Indian ancestry.

    *The* thing that defined them as Prey, in this creep’s mind, was that they were not Islamically dressed, not wearing the Slave Rag; they were Kuffar women, and therefore – up for grabs. Or so he thought.

  35. says

    *The* thing that defined them as Prey, in this creep’s mind, was that they were not Islamically dressed, not wearing the Slave Rag

    I was pondering that as well. Didn’t Ayaan Hirsi Ali once say that a woman who wears the burqa sees all males as potential rapists? By that account, and by a Quranic verse (I forget which one) that says that a woman should wear the veil (for two reasons: to protect herself against rape, and to prevent males who she might like being attracted to her), isn’t it clear that the Burqa is a sort-of garment to protect against rape – and that, conversely, any woman not wearing the Burqa is vulnerable to rapists?! In which case… could it not be used, in infidel countries, to identify which women are, and which aren’t, fair game for the Mohammeddan hordes?!

    Sort-of like, during pogroms and ethnic riots in days-gone-by, houses belonging to the ethnic group to be attacked were often earlier painted with a sign – then during the riots, those houses without such paint were left untouched… except in this case, the opposite is true – those women wearing the sign (the Burqa) are left alone. All others are open to being preyed on in the sexual harassment Jihad.

  36. says

    I agree with you that PC/MC should not be any kind of code for Leftism, but as you noted it has its origins in Leftist thought and has filtered through society extensively so that many moderates and conservatives, often times without even realizing it, adopt it in their thinking processes, though I’m a little more sanguine than you respecting the number of conservatives who have seen it for the nonsense that it is. You see a smaller number and I see a larger one, and it is growing.

  37. says

    Look up the group “Ni poutes ni soumises” (“Neither whores nor submitters”), a feminist group in France who’ve had enough of the sexual harrassment and rapes that go on in Muslim neighborhoods, where the men target un-hijabbed women, and even non-Muslim women feel they have to don a scarf just to go to the store, to be safe.

    Three years ago, I had a little “epiphany” about this, which I wrote about on my blog:

    The Hijab: A License to Rape

    Supposedly, Abu Bakr (the immediate successor to Mohammed) ruled that non-Muslim women (i.e., slave women) should not wear hijab, and only Muslim women should. This comes from a Koran verse (33:59):

    O Prophet! Tell your wives and daughters and the women of the believers to draw their cloaks closely over themselves…

    (the word used being jal�bīb , plural of jilb�b, which is a wrap that covers a woman totally).

    A tafsir by al Jalalyn on that verse notes:

    “That makes it likelier that they [Muslim women] will be known, to be free women, and not be molested, by being approached. In contrast, slavegirls did not use to cover their faces and so the disbelievers used to pester them.”

    Yeah, right — like non-Muslim men were the problem! Al Jalalyn got it half right, no doubt.

    http://www.ahlus-sunna.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=81&Itemid=146

    For related matter, see Misunderstanding Islamic Sexual Mores

  38. says

    Dumbledore’s Army wrote:

    *The* thing that defined them as Prey, in this creep’s mind, was that they were not Islamically dressed, not wearing the Slave Rag

    Green Infidel wrote:

    I was pondering that as well. Didn’t Ayaan Hirsi Ali once say that a woman who wears the burqa sees all males as potential rapists? By that account, and by a Quranic verse (I forget which one) that says that a woman should wear the veil (for two reasons: to protect herself against rape, and to prevent males who she might like being attracted to her), isn’t it clear that the Burqa is a sort-of garment to protect against rape – and that, conversely, any woman not wearing the Burqa is vulnerable to rapists?! In which case… could it not be used, in infidel countries, to identify which women are, and which aren’t, fair game for the Mohammeddan hordes?!
    ………………………………..

    This is *exactly* the case. In Oslo”astonishingly”every last case of stranger rape in the last five years was a Muslim-on-non-Muslim crime.

    There are similar statistics from all over Europe.

    This is also why Infidels in Muslim areas are themselves being virtually forced to don the Hijab out of fear.

    While wearing the Hijab is *not* proof against rape, Muslims go for “uncovered meat” every time, considering unveiled women legitimate targets.

    That is, essentially, what happened in this case. This Muslim scum considered unveiled Infidel working women to be fair game for his harassment. And now the General Pharmaceutical Council of Britain has shown it basically agrees.

    Madness, and suicidal madness.

  39. says

    Wellington,

    One’s appraisal of the learning curve of conservatives I suppose is subjective and relative to how one measures “too slow” and “fast enough”, as well as “slow, but hopefully picking up pace”, etc.

    Keep in mind that by PC MC in this regard I am only referring to the problem of Islam, not the whole galaxy of Tea Party conservative values unrelated to Islam.

    And when I say it “derives” from Leftism, I am not excluding other derivations — such as Graeco-Roman Judaeo-Christian virtues, which is precisely why PC MC is so broad-based. Unless the West is thoroughly idiotic and/or wicked, a worldview could not have gained this much mainstream dominance without it containing much good in it. Thus it’s that much more difficult to extricate, since the bad is tangled up and raveled with so much good.

    The fact, for example, that the Tea Party has never had the problem of Islam on its platform, let alone its front burner, indicates that dismay, not hope, is in order.

    Or that out of 242 Republicans in the House only 4 saw fit to support Michele Bachmann’s concern about Muslim Brotherhood influence in American government (and her own Presidential campaign manager, Ed Rollins (former assistant to Ronald Reagan), castigated her for her effort, in a public letter writing “Shame in you!” and likening her concern to “McCarthyism” (as though that’s a bad thing) — and what have we heard from all the Republican Senators on this? All I’ve heard are crickets; unless you know otherwise.

    Yes, there is progress on the learning curve of conservatives with regard to the problem of Islam: approximately at the pace of a garden snail oozing across moss-covered stone steps on a lazy day in early Autumn.

  40. says

    The “epiphany” to which I referred in my previous comment was a shift in my view from the idea that in Islam the hijab makes the Muslim covered women “off limits” to seeing the flip side of the coin: The vulnerability to rape on the part of uncovered women is not merely a by-product of the hijab ruling — it’s actually one of its two prime motivations. Just as covered women in Islam are marked out, officially, as being off limits to rape; so too the uncovered women are marked out, officially, as being okay to rape. This was why, I’m convinced, Abu Bakr made that policy, to forbid the hijab among all female slaves.

  41. says

    Loved the metaphor about the snail. And yes, I agree with you that PC/MC crap did not come out of only things negative, but then that is why it is more powerful than it is. As the Judeo-Christian world has maintained for centuries now, part of the reason why Satan is powerful is precisely because he tells the truth some of the time.

  42. says

    Wellington,

    One of my professors is an expert in identifying psychopathy. I told him some time ago about this guy I know. I wanted his assessment, as much as could be given without actually talking to the “subject.” I was trying to discern if my own assessment of the “subject’s” character.

    One of the things that happened with this guy, who lied as a matter of course in his life was that, once, after being challenged on something he had said as a lie, his response was, “I am a pathological liar.” That is one of the very few times he actually told the truth. That was also the one and only time he admitted that he ever lied.

    I always look forward to your comments, by the way.

  43. says

    Thanks for that, somehistory. What you narrated about truthtelling reminded me of an old challenge I came across long ago. Here it is: A man dies and finds himself at the crossroads to heaven and hell. One road leads to hell, the other to heaven and the man definitely wants to go to heaven but has to decide which road to take. There are two angels at the crossroads, one good who ALWAYS tells the truth and the other bad who ALWAYS tells a lie. The man can ask either angel just one question. He doesn’t know which is the good angel or which the bad. What is the one question he can ask either angel and know for certain which is the way to heaven?

    Answer: The man can look to either angel (again not knowing which one always tells the truth and which one always lies) and ask: If I asked the other angel which way to heaven, what would he say? Either way he’ll know for certain the road to heaven.

    Good hearing from you. Take care.

  44. says

    Thank you, and you too. And I’m glad I didn’t have to sort that one out. I might never have, so thanks for providing the answer.
    Liars can be awfully convincing at times, but they eventually trip themselves, ie: the tangled web (they)weave when practicing their deception ( Sir Walter Scott, Marmion, Canto vi. Stanza 17). The rest of us just have to pay more than the usual attention to what we hear(Apostle Paul to the Hebrews 2:1)in order to discern who is telling the truth and who lies.

  45. says

    “Liars can be awfully convincing at times, but they eventually trip themselves”

    No problem with Muslims. It’s our problem for believing any one of them. Once we get our collective head screwed on straight, and consider all Muslims dangerous liars, we’ll have solved that particular conundrum.

  46. says

    That is so true. I found that out some years ago…long before I knew of Mr. Spencer and this JW.(back in the ’90’s)
    I have met many, came to know some of them…saw actions speaking louder than their words. Men who mistreated family, women who were afraid of their own children and their mother’s-in-law as well as their husbands, and one young girl who told me that if her father knew she talked to me, he would kill her. One young man was in hiding because he converted to Christianity and his entire family was looking for him to kill him. He moved around a lot.

    So, I don’t trust any of them to tell the truth unless they are saying things like “kill infidels”…”take over the world,” etc.

  47. says

    LemonLime wrote:

    The “epiphany” to which I referred in my previous comment was a shift in my view from the idea that in Islam the hijab makes the Muslim covered women “off limits” to seeing the flip side of the coin: The vulnerability to rape on the part of uncovered women…
    ……………………..

    Very true, LemonLime. I came to this realization myself a few years ago.

    It also means that a further message of Muslimahs wearing the Hijab is not just “don’t rape me”, but, in essence, “rape her instead”. *Ugh*.

  48. says

    If you knew this in the 90s, you’re ahead of the rest of us; but we’ve (most of us) caught up. I had an intuitive suspicion about it through the 90s, and so it didn’t come as much of a surprise to me; though certain moments stand out — e.g. (to pluck one example from thousands out of a fez), when I read in 2002 about two Canadian Muslims who said they felt they had to travel to Afghanistan or Chechnya or whatever (does it matter?) for their “duty of jihad”… something in me went BOING!!!.

  49. says

    In those days, I had a Christian friend living in Indonesia who told me a lot of things. I had another friend from Malaysia who came to live in the U.S. and was also Christian. And because I lived in a university town, I worked with several muslim men and saw muslims everywhere, in businesses, on the street,and on my jobs, one of which involved children. And I talked to a lot of them and to others who had lived among them in other countries.

    But I still had a lot to learn. Close to the end of that decade, I began to see the violence and the dangerous attitudes. However, it has only been since taking anti-terrorism courses and reading here and other sites, books and talking to others that the danger to everyone has become evident to me. (And I never read any of the koran until I read it on these pages.) I believe that a part of this knowledge comes directly from the increasing activities from the muslims as opposed to what they were doing back then. 1993 did not stay in the news like 9/11 did.

    It’s like knowing a hurricane is coming, but until you feel the wind and rain, it doesn’t seem so urgent to respond to the news reports. Muslims everywhere are growing bolder, I believe. Just like the man in this account of harassment.

  50. says

    LemonLime, somehistory. Yes, 9/11 undoubtedly made many more people interested in the subject. But for many others, it wasn’t the start… and – with political correctness on a far lower level before 2001, as well as lesser immigration (meaning less of those “nice Muslim friends” to tell uis about Islam meaning Peace), and greater religiosity (people took their own religion more seriously – and could make opinions of other religions without being ostracised) – perhaps people earlier could find it even easier to be against the Religion of Peace? I recall a BBC article on the subject on Islam from the year 1999. Before the era of Greg Dyke as its director general, and its transformation to a “peoples’ BBC”. The comments underneath the article – in the vast majority (and there were lots of them) exhibiting exactly the same concerns expressed here: about Muslim violence, aggression, demographics…

    In my teens, during the mid-90s, I remember my mother telling me about Muslims having more kids and Christians having less kids, meaning that they were growing in numbers rapidly. My father even once told me a theory he had about “the Arabs” putting something in the water supply to poison people, or make them less fertile. Although personally, with absolutely no Hijabs or Burqas around in the part of London where we lived, this was all hard to imagine. I thought all this concern was nuts and forgot about it. During a discussion at school during religion class about Mosque-building, I even took the side of the Mosque-builders, arguing that just because Christians weren’t allowed to build churches in Saudi Arabia, does not mean we have to be as bad as them.

    However earlier, when I was around 10, I watched the film Delta Force with Chuck Norris, which was running on British TV – about an airliner hijacked by the usual suspects. I taped the film, and rewatched it a lot of times. I especialy liked the scene with Chuck Norris, right at the end, fly-kicking the terrorist Muslim loads of times, then launching a rocket at his car while riding away on his motorbike. And there was a TV program that ran in Britain around 1993, talking about “the world in 1997”. It mentioned “Islamic fundamentalists” as one of the biggest dangers to be faced. It turned out they were only 4 years off.

    I also remembered something my mother told me earlier about a friend of hers married to a Muslim and trapped in a Muslim country – unable to escape. I thought that this was messed up, and I never wanted to hear such a story again. But I did. A lot. I now know of at least 2 girls personally who’ve had similar experiences (although luckily managing to escape).

    I read about Osama bin Laden and his Jihad after the Kenya bombings in 1998 – and after the WTC attack in 2001, I straight away said that it was him responsible. Naturally, at that point, after knowing about terrorism in the 80s, I knew it wasn’t something new, and that there was a problem. A big problem. In some ways I thought 9/11 might turn out to be something that finally gets us together to deal with it once and for all. But our media and fifth columnists among us had other ideas…

    Back then in 2001, I didn’t think anything close to “all Muslims” were bad, although did have some suspicions about “Islam”. I was just about the only one at my university to have any such suspicions. But since that time, I read stories that made me more and more suspicious… After finding Jihadwatch (by accident), I learnt about all sorts of other Muslim-related “problems” that I never knew even existed. Such as Taqiyya, and how Christians in the Middle East are treated. The excuses and ignoring of these problems elsewhere – on the BBC, Loonwatch or Muslim sites – merely confirmed my suspicions. So now nearly all the dots are joined, and I see Islam as a big ugly beast not too different from Communism or Fascism – apart from its more “constructive” use of women and infidel slaves (was it a bright idea by Hitler to put them in the gas chamber?!), and apart from the promise of paradise in the afterlife for the Jihadis among its followers (how much more motivated would German/Russian troops have been if they were given such a promise?!). But the appetite for world domination is every bit as big – if not bigger.

    And now – in 2012 – the Religion of Peace is a frequent topic not only among family, but many friends, and colleagues at work. I used to be the one starting discussions on the topic – now I’m the one listening, as others start by telling their own stories. Despite the propaganda, and the blanket misinformation by the mainstream media – the message is getting out. Our goal now has to be to act on that message – and spread it further. Before it’s too late.

  51. says

    Green,

    I agree. There were many people I knew in the 90’s that didn’t want to believe the things I brought up about those I talked to or saw doing things. It, even then, wasn’t *PC* to even think such things. And because many of the people I associated with thought at times that I was abnormal in some respects, I put most of it aside and just thought about what I knew and what I suspected. I knew ones who had been in communist countries and escaped and the stories they told about having to keep quiet unless they were sure of the person they told things and that affected me when others reacted to my accounts.

    One of the things that happened was one day when a new employee…a muslim from Egypt…was treating me to much of his anger, fuming over “Americans” who were using up the world’s resources, “living all alone in a big house or apartment while Egyptians lived 40 to a small apartment” and he told me how we were greedy for living like we do. His face was set in a permanent scowl and I was glad when the day was done.
    And the young muslim man dressed all in white who told me he taught at a boy’s school just down the street…and said it was good that I was *friendly* to him…and then later, to show how *friendly* he was, he broke my video recorder and tried to break my television…because I shouldn’t be watching movies and tv shows.

    But I do think the boldness that muslims have gained due to the increase in their populations all over the world…and the lack of appropriate responses to their calls for stopping information from getting out… have caused many non-muslims to begin to take notice. The persecutions of non-muslims is not being reported as much as one would think, but when it comes *home* that will be a different story.

    My family and many of my friends get tired of me talking about it. I’ve been told I read this site (and others) too much. But I have seen guys like the one about whom this article was written and would like as many as possible to be aware of what could happen here and to them.

  52. says

    I spent my early years in communist Eastern Europe – and remember well my family at home first complaining about Communism (it was the late 80s, and almost everyone was at it), then, when noticing I was within earshot, telling me to NEVER repeat what I’d heard when outside the house. Then aged 6, when in a holiday resort, I remembered one morning a mass of tanks on the street, possibly as a reaction to protests.

    When we came to the UK, I thought such things were now irrelevant, now that I was in a “free country”. Little did I know that in the following decade, something similar in nature would appear in the West itself – especially with regard to the police treatment of the likes of Fjordman, Geert Wilders, Elisabeth Sabaditsch-Wolf, the EDL and their leader, Tommy Robinson.

    Islamists are on the rise – backed by the increasingly Communist tactics of their leftist allies. Websites like the one we’re on are few and far between – and get around 50,000 daily views from a worldwide audience. Compared to millions for the Guardian, BBC, NYT etc. Or even blogs like the Daily Kos. Websites which are largely not worldwide, but country-specific… Islam, considering its impact over the past decade, also (IMO) barely gets a mention in the mainstream media… so perhaps those who spend “too much” time on Jihadwatch-style websites are needed, to offset those who don’t do any Islam-related reading free from the PC-Marxist-Islamist mainstream media thought police?!

    The increased boldness of Muslims in the West has been noted by people I know who’ve visited after a long absence. Even the arrogance when they serve you, or take you in a taxi is something that would have been rare a few years ago.

    This of course is just a small step. In 20 years time the problem may not be merely arrogance, but something more akin to 1970s Lebanon-style civil war. Which in itself may be a small step to a Pakistan-style Islamic fundamentalist hegemony sometime in the future.

    I often heard from my family about their war experiences in occupied Poland, which include aircraft strafing civilians on the road, imprisonment by the Gestapo, or, as a small child, witnessing executions of civilians by the Soviet Red Army. If we don’t start organising, informing and taking PROPER action soon, something like this may visit us again. But this time with no allies at hand to help – they may also be facing their own Pakistans forming from within…

  53. says

    Hi LemonLime – thanks for the link to your (and dumbledoresarmy’s) “learning curve”. Interesting that for both your cases, interest in Islam only grew out of interest in another subject: for you, Orientalism. For dumbledoresarmy, evangelical Christianity… Is such a deep interest slowly developed over time the hallmark of (in the words of our detractors) “bigots who only want to hate”?

    I should add that my finding JW was very incidental. Following 9/11, and during the Intifada, I had been reading interesting snippets, usually on page 15 or 20 of UK newspapers, about Palestinians preaching Jew-hatred, being two-faced or indoctrinating children with hate. Some of these reports came from a website called “Palestine Media Watch”. I had also been reading other bits about violent UK rappers converting to Islam, gangs featuring a lot of “Mohammeds”, etc. I wanted to find a website which collected such stories – not just about the Intifada – in one convenient location, as opposed to being scattered deep inside some newspaper. So, remembering “Palestine Media Watch”, I googled Jihad Watch. The rest is history…

    But some crucial facts learned were:

    Muslim women not allowed to marry non-Muslim men. (when the opposite was FAR from the case)
    The doctrine of Taqiyya.
    A comment (from years back) featuring an article from the Irish Times about a Latvian girl in Ireland meeting an “Orthodox Greek”, who turned out to be a Sunni Lebanese – and a drug dealer (or similar). After he was released from jail, her body (and that of her child?!) was found in a river.
    The Holy Land Foundation documents about the Muslim Brotherhood staging a “civilisation Jihad from within”.
    A Youtube video of ex-BBC presenter Rageh Omaar doing a documentary about Mohammed – saying how he had “set out from these beaches to conquer the World”.
    Comments from various Muslims on Islamic websites – calling for boycotts of shops, only because they were owned by Hindus.

    I should add that the last 2 points did not come from JW. These, and many other facts, painted a very big, and scary, picture of a religious ideology hell-bent on using any method within its disposal to achieve world domination…

  54. says

    Lemon,

    I have been reading these pages much longer than I have been commenting, so I had read your “history” when you wrote it, although I cannot say that I recall every word, nor that I would have guessed that you were that poster with a different handle.

    I recall a song by Ray Stevens about Ahab and thinking it just another funny song by a seriously funny guy. I recall the story about the forty thieves and seeing old movies about the desert and people who were totally covered and the women who weren’t. I thought that the too much clothing, explained that it “kept them cool” in the heat, and those with “not enough” clothing seemed to be two extremes of one mental condition.

    In the 1980’s, I was reading about the origin of different religions and islam was included. It was totally outside anything I would ever have put faith in, but at that time, I did not know the physical danger believers posed to non-believers. The books I studied did not include that information.

    My contacts during the past thirty years have been one-on-one with muslims, “some history” of that being why I chose the handle. As I said earlier, I learned a whole lot more when I began to take anti-terrorism courses. One of the sites I found through my research for term papers was JW and I kept coming back and reading now and then. As I have seen the increase in the *mouth* of islam in the news, I have come back more often to the pages that arrive daily in my in-box. I don’t pretend to know everything, I find that many know a lot more than I, and I hesitate to post comments at times.

    So I look forward to learning even more in the days to come. I have to say, that although I would not be classified as belonging to any religion (I am spiritual and endeavor to copy Christ,tho), and no political party ever, I do recognize the dangers inherent in those who wish to force their views on every one else. And I will say what I can to whom I can as often as possible. And pray that God gives us answer soon.

    Thank you for sharing your’s and DDA’s accounts.

  55. says

    Green Infidel, somehistory, and LemonLime, thank you for the information about how you learned about the Jihad threat.

    I was increasingly alarmed about Islam”the hijackings, the attacks on the Marine barracks and the Cole, the first World Trade Center bombings, and the general terrible human rights record of the Muslim world”but like so many people, it took the horrific attacks of 9/11 for me to really study Islam in any sort of organized manner.

    And Green Infidel, it doesn’t surprise me that part of your being so prescient about the tyranny of Islam was your experience with the tyranny of communism growing up.

    Although it is hardly completely analogous, I found my own experiences of growing up in an abusive, criminal household meant that I was able to recognize a lot of the violent and oppressive aspects of Islam.

    At best, we learn from our experiences. We can say “Never Again”, and ensure that it is more than a feel-good slogan, and that we recognize the rise of evil, even when it takes a somewhat different form.

    I’ll look for further posts from all of you.

  56. says

    Truthiocity wrote:

    Actually I take the hijab in western countries to mean “I’m too good to be raped, but you aren’t.”
    ……………………………

    Agreed, Truthiocity.