U.S. troops punished for Qur'an-burning

If any U.S. troops lose rank or pay because of the burning of the Qur'an, it would be one of the worst capitulations to Sharia of the entire Obama Administration, which has been full of them. Burning a Qur'an is not a crime in American law. And these Qur'ans weren't even burned maliciously (not that that should make a difference -- again, Qur'an-burning is not a crime): they were burned because jihadists were using them to pass messages to each other.

These troops should not be punished in any way. If they have been, that is the only criminal act in this entire sorry episode.

"U.S. troops punished over Koran burning, urination video," by Phil Stewart and David Alexander for Reuters, August 27 (thanks to David):

(Reuters) - The U.S. military said on Monday it was disciplining U.S. troops over two incidents that provoked outrage in Afghanistan early this year, one involving a video depicting Marines urinating on corpses and another over burned copies of the Koran.

But the administrative punishments fell short of criminal prosecution and it was unclear whether they would satisfy Afghan demands for justice.

No, it's quite clear: the Afghans will not be satisfied. (Not that what they want is justice.)

Afghan President Hamid Karzai branded the Marine's actions in the video as "inhuman," and he initially called for a public trial for the soldiers over the Koran incident.

The military did not disclose precise punishments for the troops but Army and Marine Corps spokesmen said they fell into a category that includes administrative sanctions, like a reduction in rank or forfeiture of pay.

The Marine Corps announced three Marines had pleaded guilty to charges over the video, which was widely seen on the Internet in January and showed Marines urinating on the corpses of what the Marine Corps said were dead Taliban fighters. One can be heard saying, "Have a nice day, buddy."...

Also on Monday, the Army announced that six soldiers received administrative punishments over an incident in which copies of the Koran and other religious material were removed from a prison library and sent to an incinerator to be destroyed. Four of the individuals involved were officers and two of them were non-commissioned officers, a spokesman said.

The incident in February touched off several days of rioting and attacks on U.S. troops after local workers found charred copies of the Koran among the trash at the incinerator at the Bagram base north of Kabul.

At least 30 people died in the violence that spread across the country after the incident. Shortly after, two American officers were shot dead in a secure area of the Afghan interior ministry, a crime that remains unsolved.

U.S. officials at the time said some of the religious material had been removed from the prison library at Bagram because of concern that it was extremist in nature and was being used to pass messages among prisoners. Details of the investigation were expected to be released later on Monday.

Reaction to the incident prompted President Barack Obama to write to Afghan President Hamid Karzai to apologize.

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This is entirely in line with what can be expected when you are not allowed to name the enemy. The enemy, it should be crystal clear by now, is Islam. All of it.

Oh yeah, all of it--------even the wimpy, parasitical, not-too-knowledgeable, so-called moderate and "nice" Muslim element. And so, let the games continue. I have no doubt they will for the short term. If they do for the long term, well, it's gonna' be a problem for things like liberty, equality under the law, women's rights, a Golden Rule for all and, arguably most distressingly, the production of good beer.


As I have stated out here many times, the koran has but one legitimate use in our world.

When you run out of these:

http://www.scottbrand.com/products/toilet-paper/1000-count

Then you can use these, (soft paper edition).

http://www.lib.byui.edu/exhibits/Archives%20website/koran.html

Our leaders are wimpy cowards! They punish their own rather than face the enemy head on!!

All Americans should be outraged that the powers that be are "disciplining" the troops for insulting muslims. If anyone is "derelict in their duty" it's obama and his minions , the military "leaders".

No, it's quite clear: the Afghans will not be satisfied. (Not that what they want is justice.)

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

I am thinking what shariah compliant Islam considers justice with respect to speech or criticism of religion, etc., is very different from what those who adhere to a Judeo-Christian ethic consider justice.

"At least 30 people died in the violence that spread across the country after the incident."

If that's their standard response to burning Korans, maybe we should start burning them by the truckload, and watch Afghanistan implode. Problem solved.

Punishing soldiers in combat zone crap like this? The upper brass have become more politicians than soldiers. Get our boys out of Afghanistan there is no one leading them.

I was a Navy Chaplain and got out just before the PC police made it unlawful to say "Jesus" in public. I was once reprimanded for writing an article for the base newspaper about Christmas that was "too Christocentric". How do you wtite about Christmas without mentioning Jesus? No such nonsense about Islam. They can say "Allah" any time they want.
I'm afraid this is just another illustration about the fall of the West and the rise of Dhimmitude.
My prayers are with the brave men and women who are being charged with a crime. And yes, I will offer my prayers in Jesus' name.

Would any troops be disciplined for burning a copy of the Bible, or the Book of Mormon, or any of L. Ron Hubbard's works?

Possibly OT. I have a new neighbour renting the house opposite me.
He happens to be a serving, ranking, British soldier recently repatriated from Germany after tours of duty in Afghanistan.
His wife is suffering alopecia (hair loss) because of the stress.

He told me that the Ministry of Defence, responsible for finding homes when none are available on camp, first tried to place him next door to a muslim family. He apparently went ballistic and pointed out that leaving home in uniform, next to a muslim family IN ENGLAND would make him a target. IN ENGLAND for God's sake but he was SO on the button. HE is an indigenous Somerset Englishman. WHO are the muslims? NOT indigenous English.

I happen to have signed the Official Secrets Act which would guarantee prison for me if at anytime in my life I ever reveal anything I discovered, at any time, during my public service, and later government contracts, and work with police.
My new neighbour is probably also so restricted.
When I suggested that British troops were less than well he paid he differed but he isn't right.
When I suggested that rules of engagement in Afghanistan were somewhat stupid and put troops in danger he changed the subject.
I think that I KNOW the truth. I also think that even I would be somewhat tempted to piss on dead taliban. Indeed I would make sure that they were buried in pigskin.
IF I had access to a koran I WOULD burn it as the most disgusting book in history - even worse than the Old Testament. There I said it. So Reza come looking. I'll be ready for you.

@Bewick114. You don't have to have access to a koran to burn it. Just print out some pages from the koran and burn it. It doesn't matter what page(s), all of it is vile filth.

I am sick of obama demonstrating such poor leadership by kissing-up to the afghans. Soldiers are dying in that hellhole because of it.

Jeez obama apologizes to karzai for something he has no business apologizing for, yet he makes no apology for destroying America from within, makes you go hmmmmm ....

Yeah we cannot afford 4 more years of this evil man!


Some time after the Washington Post published Diana West's "Gonzo Gitmo Charade" article concerning Centcom’s directive mandating that non-Muslim United States military personnel must wear clean, white gloves in order to touch/handle Qur'ans provided by American taxpayers to the Muslim "detainees" in their charge, I called the Army's Chaplaincy command to find out how and why such an idiotic directive had been concocted and promulgated.

The Chaplain I spoke to—can’t remember his rank—told me that such a procedure met the definition of "a reasonable religious accommodation", comparing it to not letting just anyone handle THE Torah.

I talked to a Senior Chief RP at the Navy's equivalent program command who didn't have the slightest idea why such is the case.

Neither my former of current congressmen, nor the Senator to whom I wrote about this expressed the slightest moral outrage—or the courage—to help put a halt to it. Each, instead, offered their support, and their excuses, for its continuance.

As a military retireee, I am disgusted by all of this.

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2005/jun/09/20050609-092940-3178r/

So Gen Allen didn't back up the officers and NCOs involved in the koran burning? My, my, what a surprise.

Soldiers are trained to be soldiers, not diplomats. The Obama administration is deliberately hampering the effectiveness of the U.S. Army. If U.S. soldiers burn Korans, then so what?
Obama is a seditious, calculating enemy of the United States. His administration is deliberately attacking and weakening U.S. defense. He got into the White House via false pretenses. He is an Indonesian citizen who should never have become President of the United States of America. His presidency is illegal. I hope that one day he is brought to trial and justice is served.

I can imagine the hell we are putting our troops through, having to fight for a hopeless cause, all because we WILL NOT name our enemy.

It turns my stomach.

Shut the fuck up Wayne.

You are an idiot and have no value here.

Bewick114,

If you haven't already done so, please read the book, America Alone, by Mark Steyn.

http://www.steynstore.com/product28.html

This book goes a long way to explaining why things are the way they are today, and why things will get worse unless western civilization wakes up to the world wide islamic threat.

R/

Paleo

G.W. is long gone. Nobody cares what he did or didn't do, because there is nothing to be done about it anyway.

What is your point, fool?

The dhimmi top brass responsible for betraying these soldiers are guilty of treason and cowardice in time of war. They should be given a drumhead court martial, then taken out and dispatched in the traditional manner. All the way up the chain of command.

I repeat - we cannot afford 4 more years of this evil man obama! That's my story and I'm stickin' to it ...

Besides, he makes G.W. look like an angel; and to think otherwise proves how utterly blind you are to the TRUTH about obama.

*NOBAMA 2012*

And Daveygreybeard is right, G.W. is looooong gone, so your point carries zero weight.

Hey I suggest that you grow a brain and stat, pal.


What is your point, fool?

Being a fool is his point.

As your link shows, it was the Washington Times, not the Post, that published Diana West's article. The Post wouldn't touch her with a ten-foot pole; and even the "conservative" Times has distanced itself from her in the past year or two.

If that weren't bad enough, even the few papers (all "staunch Republicans") that would accept her no-nonsense anti-Islam stance and publish her articles have since refused to publish her articles about the Eligibility problem with Obama.

Pakistan is considering what to do with a mentally disabled 12 year who burnt pages of the Koran - as with the US troops - the books had also been discarded - thrown in the trash.

In both cases the 'infidel' or the 'unclean' touched the Koran.

Perhaps the current US administration might seek guidance from Pakistan on what to do in their case!!!


Yes, thanks for the correction.

I had also seen a post of yours about her recent poor treatment by the Times.

OK...over there in the sandbox...the boys have been pissin on things and burnin kurans (spelled that way on purpose) since we started goin over there. Problem lies with the camera guy...put it in the rucksack. We all know that there is and always will be some bleeding heart that wont tolerate
conduct they consider to be "unethical" in a war zone. Its politics and ya cant escape it...if we think this is the only time this was done over there...well then get your head outa the sand!! Keep doin what your doin boys/girls cuz it is difficult fighting.

Bewick

you wrote - "I have a new neighbour renting the house opposite me.
He happens to be a serving, ranking, British soldier recently repatriated from Germany after tours of duty in Afghanistan.
His wife is suffering alopecia (hair loss) because of the stress."

My heart goes out to them.

Bewick - have you gently mentioned jihadwatch to them? And Spencer's books?

Or the New English Review?

http://www.newenglishreview.org/

You could always invite them round for tea and have one or two of Mr Spencer's books - or perhaps Patrick Sookhdeo's 'Faith, Power and Territory', or his other book on Islam, 'Global Jihad' - lying on the coffee table where they can be seen.

You obviously are suffering from a pretty bad case of BDS---Bush Derangement Syndrome. And, oh by the way, Davegreybeard is certainly no idiot but calling him such is idiotic.

Marine urinators’ BIG mistake?

Neglecting to apply for an NEA grant for performance art.

ACLU clergy will never forgive that heresy.

A Thought Experiment: Recall, devout Muslim scholars have no qualms proudly declaring the salutary effects of drinking prophet urine.

Sheik Ali Gomaa: Urine Fatwa

According to Egypt’s Grand Mufti, Sheikh Ali Gomaa, drinking the urine of Muhammad is deemed a great blessing.

[Remember, Muhammad never claimed that he himself was divine—so why does his piss have magic properties?]

Source: “A Fatwa Free-for-All in the Islamic World”, New York Times, Michael Slackman Published: Monday, June 11, 2007

Meanwhile, our ACLU clergy insist that serial Gitmo semen/piss/feces cocktails are merely a case of "misunderstanding" Islam.

So which is it? Blessing? Or mere misunderstanding?

Why aren't our micturating Marines treated as mere “misunderstanders” of devout Muslim observance, too?

For all who seek a deeper understanding of Obama and WHY he acts the way he does, I would highly recommend the movie “2016 Obama’s America”.

It is a very well done documentary - not what some might expect.

Agreed! ..hubby and I saw the movie, "2016: Obama's America", and it's an awesome eye opener!!! ..and everyone applauded when the movie was over. Hey glad you liked the video :)


Bewick; I read your post with interest and I too think that
the Koran richly deserves to be pissed upon and buried in
pig dung. However, I am puzzled by your line: "even worse
than the Old Testament".

What am I missing here? Are you comparing the Koran to
the O.T.? Are you also comparing Judaism with Islam?

If indeed you DO make such comparisons, then you & I
are enemies. I am most anxious to read your response.
Thank you (I think).

Peace, Paul R.

US troops lose rank for burning the Qur'an (perhaps because it was packed with garbage they were ordered to incinerate?)? Well, I hope that if Khaled Sheikh Muhammad is found guilty of masterminding the 9/11 attacks, he gets the death penalty for burning people--especially when they were at peace with him.

Paul, Bewick's explanation would be interesting, as previously he has defended the Anglican church, which apparently indicates he's Anglican. An Anglican who thinks the Old Testament is so horrible, it's almost as bad as the Koran. Hm... Unfortunately, there are quite a few Christians of various flavors out there who have been similarly benighted by the modern Enlightenment.

And by the way, one will never find a Muslim anywhere who thinks their holy book is bad at all, let alone as ghastly as Bewick considers the Old Testament -- unless that Muslim is a de facto closet apostate, of course (which means he would not be a Muslim).


Bewick: I would appreciate if you would please respond to
my query above [12:19pm]. I don't recall having seen your
handle on JW previously. Are you a new poster to this site?


Davegreybeard: The vast majority of the posters on this site
have one thing in common; to wit: they despise, detest, hate
Islam for the hateful, murderous ideology that it really is.
We also understand the danger that Islam presents to ALL
civilized nations.
There certainly is room for criticism herein, but please,
let us not needlessly bash those others who oppose Islam.
In my most politest language, let us shit on Islam and
NOT on one another.

Peace, Paul R.

My suspicion is that Wayne R is either a far left liberal loon or perhaps a Mohamedan troll.
I caught Wayne’s incoherent Bush rant at as I was reflecting on the absolute psychological hell that our troops are being forced to suffer in Afghanistan – and their attendant suicide rate.

As one who has been in similar, though not nearly as severe conditions, I am highly attuned to their probable state of mind and it is unpleasant in the extreme. So, at that moment, my patience for fools was nonexistent and I admit that I was quite short with Wayne.

Having said that, any rational person who is paying the slightest attention to the actions of Obama, must recognize his overarching sympathy for Islam and Muslims.

So, one who claims to be against Islam, yet rabidly supports Obama, is lying.

Hello LemonLime;
As usual you've come up with a likely answer to a
question, thank you. I too have my suspicions about Bewick
but I give him the benefit of doubt plus every opportunity
to express his true feelings/opinions.
If Bewick has the courage of his convictions he should
proudly state and defend that position. We will see if he
will infact respond like a man.
Best regards & peace, Paul

Hi Davegreybeard:
Thanks for your response. I too have a great deal of
empathy & support for our troops. Nuff said.
Peace, Paul

An ethical dilemma:
Would it be right to piss on a burning koran?

Tom

fascinating question.

I've an idea: why don't you go over to one of the Islamic forums - such as 'Ask the Imam' or 'Islam Q and A', I gather there are heaps of such sites where anxious Muslims ask all sorts of bizarre questions - and pretend to be a Mohammedan and ask that very question, in all innocence.

See what kind of answer you get.

Should be...interesting.

If the United States keeps treating our military like the bad guys it wont be long and they'll have to start the draft again.

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