Libya: Protesters decry attack on U.S. Embassy, take over headquarters of Islamic supremacist group

If the government and mainstream media narrative about Islam being a Religion of Peace that has been "hijacked" by a Tiny Minority of Extremists were true, we would be seeing this kind of thing frequently: Muslims not only registering their public disapproval of those who riot and murder in the name of Islam, but taking real action to stop them. Instead, there are only a handful of such stories, at best, since 9/11. Now, why is that? The learned analysts dare not ask that question, or answer it.

"Decrying attack, protesters overtake Islamist group's HQ in Benghazi," by Arwa Damon for CNN, September 22 (thanks to all who sent this in):

Benghazi, Libya (CNN) -- Ten days after four Americans were killed in their Libyan city, hundreds marched in Benghazi and took over the headquarters of a radical Islamist group tied to the attack.

Thousands of protesters had taken to the street earlier Friday, loudly declaring that they -- and not those behind last week's deadly attack -- represent the real sentiments of the Libyan people.

"I am sorry, America," one man said. "This is the real Libya."

In the evening, an offshoot of several hundred people then headed toward the headquarters for Ansar al-Sharia, a loosely connected radical Islamist group.

As militia members fled, the protesters torched a vehicle and took over the group's building without firing a single shot. Some of those involved claimed to have freed at least 20 captives held inside, and expressed their intent to assume control over other Ansar al-Sharia buildings.

Army General Naji al-Shuaibi said the citizens, whom he referred to as "revolutionaries of the February 17 uprising," later asked that the Ansar al-Sharia headquarters be handed over to the Libyan army.

"Indeed, we rushed here and we will now take it over," said the general. "There are also other places that we intend to take over (which belong to armed groups) if the revolutionaries and the people allow us to do so."

But some of the protesters gathered at locations that house forces loyal to the national authority, he said, including the headquarters of the Rufallah al-Sihati battalion. Gunfire could be heard at the headquarters, but it was not initially clear who was responsible.

Mohamed al-Magariaf, president of Libya's General National Congress, thanked the protesters for helping evict "armed groups. He also said the Rufallah al-Sihati brigade was actually "under the command of -- and committed to -- the national authority," the case appeared to be one of mistaken identity. Magariaf asked demonstrators to stop their activities and go home....

Initial reports indicated that, ahead of the consular attack, Ansar al-Sharia had organized a protest to decry an inflammatory film that mocks the Prophet Mohammed and also protest the United States, where the film was privately produced.

On Thursday, Libyan Prime Minister Mustafa Abushagur said eight detained in connection with that assault include members of Ansar al-Sharia, though he added that not all the attackers came from one specific group.

Responding to the report from Benghazi, U.S. Sen. John McCain applauded the citizens' efforts Friday and said it represented the true, freedom-loving Libya that he and other U.S. officials involved in the country knew.

"Somewhere Chris Stevens is smiling," the Arizona Republican said. "This is what we knew ... about Libya."

We'll see.

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"Somewhere Chris Stevens is smiling," ---

Because all he ever wanted was to get raped and massacred? ok...

These stories are so rare and unusual, that when I see a headline like that my eyes open wide and I can feel my jaw drop a little. Seriously, that's what happened when I read the headline. Remarkable.

Sorry, but I’m not buying this for one minute. Pure Taqiyya.

Sen. John McCain applauded the citizens' efforts Friday and said it represented the true, freedom-loving Libya that he and other U.S. officials involved in the country knew.

McCain, you’re an idiot who is going to get us all killed.

"I am sorry, America," one man said. "This is the real Libya."
...........................................

I agree with "Abraham Lincoln"—this is virtually a "man bites dog" story in its rarity.

And even here, three were many times that number rioting against America and freedom of speech.

More:

In the evening, an offshoot of several hundred people then headed toward the headquarters for Ansar al-Sharia, a loosely connected radical Islamist group.

As militia members fled, the protesters torched a vehicle and took over the group's building without firing a single shot. Some of those involved claimed to have freed at least 20 captives held inside...
...........................................

Wait—this Islamist group was *holding captives*—either without the knowledge or with the approval of the Libyan authorities? That's a pretty terrifying situation in an of itself.

More:

Responding to the report from Benghazi, U.S. Sen. John McCain applauded the citizens' efforts Friday and said it represented the true, freedom-loving Libya that he and other U.S. officials involved in the country knew.

"Somewhere Chris Stevens is smiling," the Arizona Republican said. "This is what we knew ... about Libya."

We'll see.
...........................................

Yes, we will. Personally, I hope John McCain isn't holding his breath here...

Signs of intelligent life in Libya.

=============

That said, we should have been there ourselves as soon as the attack began.

Rashid, the Al Ansar cell commander at the doorway, seeing the crowd of Muslims advance: "What are you doing? Are we not on the same side? For Islam?"

Hamid, Leader of the Muslim crowd: "No, we are ashamed of what you did to the Embassy, we love America and Coca-Cola, now we want to show the world -- and this AP journalist from Reuters -- that not all Muslims are like you!"

Rashid notices something strange about Hamid. He seems to have a tic in his eye. "Hey, habibi, is there something wrong with your eye?"

Hamid goes on, ignoring him. "You and the Al-Ansar group must stand down, the voice of the Libyan people has spoken!"

Rashid, still concerned, reaches his hand out. "Really, habibi, you should have a Jewish optometrist take a look at your eye, it's seriously not right...!"

Hamid with an angry scowl contorts his features and leans very closely to Rashid's ear, and whispers urgently.

"I'm winking at you, you fool! Our demonstration here is all a charade, to fool those stupid Infidels! Now brace yourself and curse me afterward -- it will play well for the digicams."

Hamid jerks his head back and strikes Rashid across the cheek.

"You radical extremist! I want nothing to do with you!"

Rashid sobs and buckles to his knees. "I'm so sorry...! Please forgive me...! I will try to be less ... radical extremist from now on...!"

"I am sorry, America," one man said. "This is the real Libya."

I tried to tell you. The vast majority of Muslims reject violence, reject Sharia law and, without really realizing it, reject Islam. All they need is a little help from the Free World. Islam is DYING.

http://crossmuslims.blogspot.com/2010/05/dying-islam-lislam-mourant.html

for a change ihave access to a computer this weekend. there are a lot of people out there like them. most of them however dare not to speak because they will get killed. this was very unusual
m

I say wait and see. Maybe there is a reaction against the Salafists brewing. Maybe it's Taqiyya. I just don't know.

robert spencer wrote:

"Instead, there are only a handful of such stories, at best, since 9/11. Now, why is that?

let's restart the clock. let's start counting after the arab revolts. because now everything that's good, bad, and everythig in between has freedom to act. unlike before. and let's take it on a case by case basis.

"As the militia members fled" - to where?

This is the same militia who destroyed the Sufi mosque in broad daylight. While the Libyan forces were powerless [or not sufficiently motivated] to act against them.

And this is where the US government must have known there were serious issues with security. And the question still remains - even if they were rioting about the film - how is it that they were able to kill the Ambassador.


In Europe for example many people have been to the Islamic world - because of its proximity - so it is not that they are necessarily worried about every Muslim individual.

But religiously motivated people - who act in ways that are contrary to our beliefs - can be an issue - and people making demands on our freedoms/or rights that we can't give - is the issue here.

And Obama is leading on - as if he can give it to them.

::

Good for the Libyan people on this small victory - if they can decide for themselves how they want to live - that would be a first in the Islamic world.

But very likely these bullies will be back in one form or another - telling women how to dress, telling newspapers what to print....

::

- Under Gaddafi - a man spent some eight years in prison - who was found to have received Christian material in the post.

- It is a 5 year prison sentence if one is found carrying more than one Bible in Algeria.

- In the Maldives - tourists' luggage is checked for Christian or other non-Muslim material - and confiscated on entry. Where there is a 3-5 year jail term for talking about your non-Muslim faith to a Maldivian - where leaving Islam means losing one's citizenship and building houses of worship for other faiths - is banned.

I think the Muslim world has some house cleaning - before they can tell us what to do!


**Would not it be nice if Muslims could one day chase off Islamic rule!! And they were free to think and do as they reasonably pleased!**

I'm dubious. Could just be an example of trying to save one's ass as well as making sure Western money keeps flowing in. The smarter Muzzies know only too well that demographic jihad will prove to be far more effective than your standard blow-everyone-up jihad. Besides, Islam can't be reformed, no more than can Marxism or Nazism. If all this comes across as too harsh to some, so be it. Echoing Luther, here I stand, I can do no other.

Spencer wrote:

"Muslims not only registering their public disapproval of those who riot and murder in the name of Islam, but taking real action to stop them. Instead, there are only a handful of such stories, at best..."

Actually, there is only one such story. This one here from Libya.

And for anyone who believes it (and even a pitiful paltry few additional ones that could possibly be cobbled together and dusted up with fragrant talcum powder) proffers hope for a sign that all Muslims are not our enemy, I have some premium swampland in south Florida I'd like to sell you, for a song, I tells ya! Stop by my office, just off the Interstate. If I'm not there or busy taking calls in the john, just tell Babs at the front desk I senchya! Hope to do business with you real soon, partner! Itchy-kitchy-koo!

check out this VIDEO DOCUMENTARY"No Excuse for Terror":

"Documentary about the Double-Standards of Many Leftists,not All,regarding the Palestinian Terrorists and Suicide Bombers"


http://www.antisharia.com/2011/06/11/documentary-about-the-double-standards-of-many-leftistsnot-allregarding-the-palestinian-terrorists-and-suicide-bombers/

AND ALSO

"Rabbi Shmuley Boteach and Michael Brown(believer in Jesus),both Jewish,in Sid Roth’s (a Jewish believer in Jesus)Program “It’s Supernatural”"

http://www.antisharia.com/2012/08/07/rabbi-shmuley-boteach-and-michael-brownbeliever-in-jesusboth-jewishin-sid-roths-a-jewish-believer-in-jesusprogram-its-supernatural/

I HOPE it's true.
I hope Islam is dying.
I have my doubts, however.
God works in mysterious ways....

Likewise, Wellington, and Lemon Lime, I regrettably personally think it is a typical islam “war is deceit” trick, "allah is the best of deceivers", etc. I have to wholly subscribe to your versions, in some form together, or either. 14 centuries as a spotted leopard with the devils horns, does not a horn or a spot change, suddenly.

For my knowledge of islam, deep as yours, you both put it spot on, as the likeliest situational awareness-analysis.

The universal devil of islam is the universal devil of islam--submission--it is all that 99% know. The other 1% are thinking of becoming apostates, because they can think, because in any group, there are always a few outliers, who can think, for themselves, and don't fall for the sucker line of the majority, the 1% who display uncommon knowldedge, intelligence and thoughtfullness......

Those few are like the Oskar Schindler's, and so many others under nazism and under so many other despot ruled groups, the Solzhenitsyn’s, the Pasternak’s, ......It takes uncommon heroic thinking and and being in touch with deeply ingrained morality, from good DNA, or whatever, to be such heroes, including in many places, to become apostates.

Even Kemel Attaturk, took steps, heroically revolutionary in scope and speed, in such direction as secularizing formerly calyphate ottoman Turkey, now with shame, and weakness, returning to islam institutionalization, for the vanity of the ego.

With the behavior of many in America, and the West, increasingly, the heroic Robert Spencer’s, (witness Australia and Geert Wilders!) and the company of hundreds and thousands of others, including even all we who comment on blogs and sites and emails, are increasingly entering the dangers of Constitutional storms, as well as the enemy's storms. Thus the very troubled times in which we live, where far too many of little education or moral and ethical qualities, create dangers to both country and individuals, fully meant to be permanently forbidden, by our exceptional Founding Fathers, through our Founding Documents!

"I am sorry, America," one man said. "This is the real Libya."
That's good. Problem is when people say "That is not the real Islam".
Those people who say "I am sorry, America," need to reject Islam. The problem is Islam. Islam is the problem. They can still believe in God. But they need to separate out belief in God with belief in Islam. Once they have learned to do that they can reject the BS of Mo and his successors without rejecting their personal faith in a Supreme Being.
Then also, they would be able to dialogue with others who acknowledge a Supreme Being without violence.

Of course in hindsight reconsideration of my remarks regarding Attaturk, if one considers the revisionista thought of hussein obama, the pretender potus, 'Attaturk didn't build that, other's did'!!!!! So goes the pretenders to greatness, "not".........

"I am sorry, America," one man said. "This is the real Libya."

It's very interesting that a number of people here, including Robert Spencer, seem to have interpreted that as "This is the real Islam."

It's also interesting that CNN seems to have deliberately avoided describing the current protesters as Muslim - which they almost certainly are, given that Libya is 97% Islamic. It's as if CNN doesn't want to report on another Muslim mob in Libya roaming the streets and taking over buildings at will. I'm fairly certain that had the protesters been Christian, that fact would have been included in the article, ad nauseam. Combined with the recent "ahem" events on the Erin whats-her-name show it seems pretty obvious that CNN is doing CAIR's bidding once again.

An outbreak of Islamistphobia? Good to see that not all Libyans hate America.

RR wrote:

let's restart the clock. let's start counting after the arab revolts. because now everything that's good, bad, and everythig in between has freedom to act. unlike before. and let's take it on a case by case basis.
...................................

Whatever are you talking about? The evenhanded Robert Spencer has *always* taken things on a case by case basis, and has diligently chronicled every possible case of Muslim moderation.

And this has always been drowned out by the rising tsumani of Jihad horrors.

What's changed since the "arab revolts"? Almost everything that has occurred has been very much of a piece with what preceded it, from 9/11 and before.

Even if Jihad Watch—in some indefinable way—decided to "restart the clock", we would soon have another growing mountain of Jihad horrors.

It sounds like mere Taqiyya from you—a hope that Anti-Jihadists will simply be swayed by the rhetoric of the "Arab Spring".

But isn't this even less plausible than it was a year and a half ago, when the "Facebook revolution" first began?

Since then, we've had more and more calls for Shari'ah law, and now the savager murder of our ambassador and consular staff. Nice try...

Excellently said, gerard. Well done. It surely is the problem of the requirement of emulating the behavior of "perfect example" mo, that is at the core of the most heinous criminal gang in the history of man (250,000,000 souls murdered), far surpassing thuggees (2 million souls murdered), and nazis (8-10 million souls at least, murdered). The real God, has no such devilish mortal failures as exemplified by mohammad, and his parnter al, the worst ghouls of imagination.

It is essential that a complete and unconditional rejection of all of islam be proclaimed, and practiced, individually, without exception, and if or when wished, the acceptance of a loving and guiding Supreme Being be accepted, who shows Light, to His creation, with foregiveness, in his Wisdom, of humanity's imperfections or failures, resulting from the freedom of choice as each one lives, to live in the full glory of the Enlightened Light of His Success. The real God provides a Good Goal, and the opportunity to find your own way to that Good Goal. How you accomplish or fail, is within the final Judgement, and is His Pervue. The scales will be weighed, regardless...

It's always handy, in situations like these, to bring out the Nazi analogy.

Imagine in 1943 we'd seen a story say, in Nazi-occupied Denmark, Holland or France, where a group of "moderate" Nazis demonstrated against the "hardline" S.S. -- and the Allies got the news of this, but the S.S. didn't do anything about it. Who except for utter dolts would have believed in such a report -- let alone that those "moderate" Nazis were really "moderate"?

Generally speaking, the only people within the loosey-goosey ambit of the Counter-Jihad who entertain such silly notions about "moderate Muslims" are

1) those non-Muslims who still have too much of the PC MC toxins in their liver and who therefore need to undergo some detox therapy;

and

2) ex-Muslims who still retain sentimental nostalgia for their Muslim nana's home cooking, not to mention probably still have some friends and family who remain Muslim, and instinctively recoil from the horror, the "full catastrophe" (enunciate that richly as did Anthony Quinn as Zorba the Greek) that Islam means for the hearts and minds psychologically and culturally of all -- not most, not many, not some -- FREAKING ALL -- Muslims.

P.S.:

There's always a flaw with every analogy ("analogiae claudicant") -- and the only flaw with mine is that Islam is far, far, far worse than Nazism.

Well, maybe there are Libyans who are grateful to the USA for being hostile to Qaddafi. The man did take power by violence, and was rough on his own people.

But I still say "wait and see".

You're absolutely right, the problem is Islam. Nevertheless, by saying "I'm sorry America", this guy is probably risking his life. It's a small step forward, but a very positive one. Muslims everywhere are leaving Islam by the millions, you'll never hear about it on CNN.
Here is what a lybian muslim scholar had to say about this subject (on al Jazeera tv):
"This Christianization movement is too big to be dealt with, even by all arab countries combined."
http://crossmuslims.blogspot.com/2010/05/dying-islam-lislam-mourant.html

"I'm fairly certain that had the protesters been Christian, that fact would have been included in the article, ad nauseam."

And, the media would have done this even if it put those Christians at risk of retribution.

Wow.

If the Counter Jihad still has this obstruction in its bowels, how is Western society at large ever going to evolve to rationality about the problem of Islam?

Exactly so.

There will be no grounds for blaming dictators allegedly beholden to the western powers.

They're on their own. Let's see how they handle it.

I'd make you a bet, but you wouldn't take it.

Things will be getting worse from here on out.

And while I'm here, thanks for everything you do.

That's true - this is the ONLY such story I've read. And I agree w/ LL and disagree w/ Sen Jihad McCain - more likely this is a ruse, or this reaction would have been as spontaneous as the reactions to both the Mohammed movie as well as the Charlie Hezbo cartoons.

In which case, it could have been filed under 'Man bites dog'. Or more precisely, 'Mohammedan bites dog'.

I tend to agree w/ ya here

Finally Islamophobes somewhere are getting favorable coverage by the press. It's to the credit of Maummar Kaddafy that his 42 year reign appears to have liberated a significant number of Libyans from Islamic supremacism. But, as Robert infers, Libya is an isolated case.

" It's to the credit of Maummar Kaddafy that his 42 year reign appears to have liberated a significant number of Libyans from Islamic supremacism. "

Q(K)a(d)daf(f)i(y) did no such thing. What a silly notion. And aggrieving to keep bumping into such sentimentalist crap in these hallowed halls of Jihad Watch comments -- one of the few places where a guy can think he can get some Goddamned sanity rather than the usual PC MC insanity.

No. Q(K)a(d)daf(f)i(y) was just another bloated tin-pot Islamic dick-tator who clamped down with an iron fist on jihadists (i.e., normal Muslims who feel motivated to get off their ass and stop smoking water pipes and jacking off with their boyfriends and do some jihad) -- only because they were trying to overthrow him for years; and they were doing that only because Islam inculcates psychologically a diseased fanatical need for ever more "pure" Islam.

There is nothing good about Islam, Islamic society, Islamic culture, Islamic psychology, or Muslims. Nothing. The whole enchilada -- every last bit -- is a hideous grotesque ghoulish -- when not blackly comical -- welter of the darkest most hellish side of human nature.

Kudos to Robert for at least putting this up and exhibiting some real balance of coverage.

The actions of these Libyans does not seem all that surprising. I'd imagine that any sound polling done of Muslims worldwide would find more support for the disapproving Libyan Muslims than the Libyan Muslims who attacked the embassy and killed the US ambassador.

By the way, since Robert brings it up, I can't say that I've noticed Robert taking much of any real, clear, public, forceful action to reign in the countless evils that fellow Western secular liberals have stood for and engaged in over the past 11 years.

Now, why is that?

Kaddafy was to Middle East despotism what Frederick the Great was to European monarchism: an enlightened despot. Like pro-Western autocrats such as Mubarak and Sadat Kaddafy wasn't trapped by the Islamic past and was somewhat of a progressive secular ruler especially on woman's rights. Hated for his progressivism by the Islamic establishment, and blasphemous claims to being "greater than Mohammed," Kaddafy's 42 year reign made possible the recent electoral triumph of secular Libyans over the jihadists. Was Kaddafy a sick detestable human being? Absolutely. But he obviously did some things right or else the Libyan elections would have had a different outcome. This isn't PC bs, this is reality. Hopefully these westernized (or half westernized) Libyans can thoroughly route the jihadists and setup a modern democratic state that "Islamophobes" like us can point to as a model for the Moslem world.

I have to agree with the cynics here.

If they are the 'real' Libya, where were they when ambassador Stevens and his security team were being sodomized, tortured, and murdered ?

''Kudos to Robert for at least putting this up and exhibiting some real balance of coverage''

Why the snide 'at least' ? Mr. Spencer has *always* exhibited balanced coverage.

Unfortunately, as gravenimage remarked, this is a ''man bites dog'' story, in the sense that there is very little *positive* to relate about mohammedans and their foul cult. I suggest you take a stroll through the archives.

''By the way, since Robert brings it up, I can't say that I've noticed Robert taking much of any real, clear, public, forceful action to reign (sic) in the countless evils that fellow Western secular liberals have stood for and engaged in over the past 11 years''

The word you want is ''rein''. ''Reign'' is what Kings and Queens do.

Did you notice the logo at the top of the home page ? This is **Jihad Watch**, not ''Countless evils that fellow Western secular liberals have stood for and engaged in over the past 11 years Watch''.

If you want to discuss the 'countless evils' that 'Western secular liberals' have 'stood for and engaged in over the past 11 years' (what are they, by the way ?) knock yourself out and start your own blog, or relieve us of your presence and bugger off to the Daily Kos, or the Huffington Post, or the sly and meretricious 'loonwatch'.

I am sure you will find many like minded twats like yourself to engage in slamming and bitching about Western civilisation, which, whatever its mistakes, and wrongdoings, has never, to *my* knowledge, flown jets into buildings thereby murdering 3000 innocent people, ordered people to strap on explosives to murder *more* innocents, blown up airliners in midflight, blown out the brains of little seven year old girls, severed the head of a month old baby, raped women and then stoned them to death for adultery, all in the name of **religion**.

There are plenty more iniquities perpetrated by these mohammedans and their religion, which you would like Mr. Spencer and the rest of us to be so nuanced about. Look through the archives, and then come back and babble about the evils of the West.

Oh, and 'Western secular liberals' haven't tried a 14 year old illiterate girl with Down's Syndrome, for blasphemy.

What they *have* done is protest in their millions about it, such that the Pakis haven't been able to just try, and then murder the poor child. Not exactly ''standing for, and engaging in'' evils, is it ?

Because of 'Western secular liberals', the Pakis have been forced to protect the child and her family, and carry out a proper police investigation, which, setting aside the utter outrageousness of a blasphemy law in the first place, has found no evidence that Rimsha burnt a koran, but *has* found evidence she was set up by a *mohammedan 'cleric'*, who deliberately put burned pages of the koran in her shopping bag.

Those that pray five times daily would love to get the chance to behead those that do not pray at all. The only way an infidel can survive among a Muslim community is to pay dues called Jizya. It is against the wishes of Allah to slaughter an infidel that is paying Jizya. The protest in Libya was against those that murdered the Jizya paying Americans.

Among other nonsense, you wrote: 'I can't say that I've noticed Robert taking much of any real, clear, public, forceful action to reign in the countless evils that fellow Western secular liberals have stood for and engaged in over the past 11 years.'

Can you cite a few of the 'countless evils'?

Clown!

"Kaddafy was to Middle East despotism what Frederick the Great was to European monarchism: an enlightened despot. "

He (not Frederick the Great) in 1989 ordered the mass-murder of 270 innocent Westerners (including 189 US citizens -- the smattering few from South America, the Caribbean, or the Philippines, or India all count as honorary Westerners as long as they were not Muslim) by his direct linkage to the Pan Am 103 terror attack (not to mention his strong-arming the UK and Scotland (whose incidental sordid greed and/or stupidity in the affair is irrelevant to our topic) to release the mass-murdering jihadist responsible for perpetrating that attack, Al-Megrahi (who of course turned out to be not only a hero of the Libyan people but -- duh! -- a hero of the same revolution that then toppled Kaddafy's regime and then lynched him to a death as ignonimous as that of Mussolini, a slightly apter comparison than Frederick the Great, but even that oily demagogue from the Better Riviera for all his mediocre bluster was light years beyond the Mohammedan barbarian of Carthage).

He (not Frederick the Great) likely if not certainly (according to the Reagan administration) ordered the attack in 1986 on the Berlin discotheque (an attack carried out by a Lebanese-born German Muslim, his German wife (if not a revert, then a Stockholm Syndrome zombie), a "Palestinian" Muslim, and others) with the intention of killing far more than the two American servicemen he did kill (also killing a Turkish woman, and injuring over 200, including nearly 80 Americans).

Not to mention that he (not Frederick the Great) for decades fomented Islamic hatred of America, and of the West, such that he was for good reason officially a state sponsorer of anti-American (and anti-Israeli) terrorism worldwide -- largely a posture he increasingly adopted as a response to the US and American allies not putting up with his dangerously grandiose megalomania (not unlike a Saddam Hussein -- i.e., a typical Muslim Strong Man with Small Penis issues). This website has a densely copious summary of the copiously busy activities during that time not Frederick the Great, but of Moammar the Megalomaniacal throughout the era before he cleverly wised up to become our "ally" in the region -- an alliance we should only consider expedient in terms of weighing respective Devils).

Thus, the tin-pot despot variously known as Kadafi/Kaddafi/Kadaffi/Kaddaffi/Kadafy/Kaddafy/Kadaffy/Kaddaffy/Kadhafi/Kaddhafi/Kadhaffi/Kaddhaffi/Kadhafy/Kaddhafy/Kadhaffy/Kaddhaffy/Khadafi/Khaddafi/Khadaffi/Khaddaffi/Khadafy/Khaddafy/Khadaffy/Khaddaffy/Khadhafi/Khaddhafi/Khadhaffi/Khaddhaffi/Khadhafy/Khaddhafy/Khadhaffy/Khaddhaffy/Gadafi/Gaddafi/Gadaffi/Gaddaffi/Gadafy/Gaddafy/Gadaffy/Gaddaffy/Gadhafi/Gaddhafi/Gadhaffi/Gaddhaffi/Gadhafy/Gaddhafy/Gadhaffy/Gaddhaffy/Ghadafi/Ghaddafi/Ghadaffi/Ghaddaffi/Ghadafy/Ghaddafy/Ghadaffy/Ghaddaffy/Ghadhafi/Ghaddhafi/Ghadhaffi/Ghaddhaffi/Ghadhafy/Ghaddhafy/Ghadhaffy/Ghaddhaffy/Qadafi/Qaddafi/Qadaffi/Qaddaffi/Qadafy/Qaddafy/Qadaffy/Qaddaffy/Qadhafi/Qaddhafi/Qadhaffi/Qaddhaffi/Qadhafy/Qaddhafy/Qadhaffy/Qaddhaffy/Qhadafi/Qhaddafi/Qhadaffi/Qhaddaffi/Qhadafy/Qhaddafy/Qhadaffy/Qhaddaffy/Qhadhafi/Qhaddhafi/Qhadhaffi/Qhaddhaffi/Qhadhafy/Qhaddhafy/Qhadhaffy/Qhaddhaffy (hat tip to Lawrence Auster) only managed with a shred of shrewdness to exploit our need to keep a lid on the jihadism metastasizing already by the 90s; for, as I already said once before here, many of these Islamic tin-pot dictators have perceived a need to make a deal with the Great Satan, because the disease of fanatical purism -- the same monster supported by these Muslim dictators by being Muslim -- that breeds and percolates perennially in the Islamic psyche tends to bite anyone in power in the ass sooner or later, for Muslim polities resemble violent gangs where every leader, and every member, has to watch his back constantly against his own, for all are stirring the same sick, twisted, murky, grotesquely dysfunctional pot of hatred, paranoia and fanaticism simply by virtue of being Muslim.

Okay, enough with you. Basta.

Worse than Kaddafy was Anwar Sadat whose brilliant but unnecessary sneak attack on Israel in 1973 (to take back Sinai) resulted in the deaths of 8000 IDF soldiers and came close to defeating the Jewish state. Yet we rightly honor Sadat's memory today for splitting with the Soviets and becoming a critical US ally in the Cold War; and courageously deserting the Arab jihad against Israel and making peace-which he paid for with his life. Should we fault the later Sadat because of the evil, corrupt earlier one?

Kaddafy likewise reformed himself: he quit the jihad against America and the West, paid out billions for Pan Am 103, supported Milosevic against Moslems in Bosnia and Kosovo, gave up his nuclear weapons program and became a critical US ally in the War on Terror.

Many of us predicted that post-Kaddafy Libya would be an anti-American Sharia state. That it's not must be credited to Kaddafy's efforts to modernize the Libyan people, free them from the past (the Moslem middle ages) and teach them to respect American and Western values. That was quite a feat which Kaddafy should be honored for, not reviled.

The only way that Libya could revert to the past and become an anti-US/Western state (like Egypt's becoming) is if the minority of Libyan jihadists (supported by Morsi, the Brotherhood and Iran) become victors in a civil war and take over the country. None of us want this horrible thing to happen, right? We want the Libyan people to prosper in freedom, as we do all peoples everywhere.

"Kaddafy likewise reformed himself: he quit the jihad against America and the West"

No: he pretended to reform himself because he perceived that to be in his self-interest.

"Worse than Kaddafy was Anwar Sadat "

Perhaps. Islam is "not a monolith" -- there's always better and worse. Even Hell had levels, as Dante noted.

Devils have degrees and Kaddafy remained a devil until his death never making it into purgatory. Yet he must have undergone a significant change of heart raising him above the 9th circle somewhat. If not how then can we explain Kaddafy going against US/NATO policy and supporting Milosevic against Moslem rebels in Bosnia and Kosovo?

It's surprising but it does make sense. Benghazi is in the easternmost part of the country, Cyrenaica, known as a bastion of Senussi Sufism which has traditionally been a sworn enemy of Wahabbi jihadism, and the salafism of Egypt. The new Libyan flag is actually the old flag of king Senussi Idris, which was replaced by Gaddafi. So, the revolt against the militias, and Ansar al-Sharia especially, is not all that surprising. The surprising thing is that the jihadis ran away without putting up a fight.

R X wrote:

Kudos to Robert for at least putting this up and exhibiting some real balance of coverage.

The actions of these Libyans does not seem all that surprising. I'd imagine that any sound polling done of Muslims worldwide would find more support for the disapproving Libyan Muslims than the Libyan Muslims who attacked the embassy and killed the US ambassador.
..................................

Is that so? So far, most polling of Muslims seems to confirm that the majority want to impose Shari'ah and believe that apostates deserve to be killed.

Do you have any "sound polls" to the contrary?

More:

By the way, since Robert brings it up, I can't say that I've noticed Robert taking much of any real, clear, public, forceful action to reign (sic) in the countless evils that fellow Western secular liberals have stood for and engaged in over the past 11 years.

Now, why is that?
..................................

What "countless evils" would those be? Also, what do you mean by "fellow Western secular liberals"? Robert Spencer has never indicated that he considers himself a "liberal", and while he supports secular rights and the separation of church and state, he himself is a devout Christian.

In any case—as Jan ably notes—whatever the mistakes of Western secularists over the past 11 years, they absolutely pale beside the unending wave of evil from Islam.

What Western secularists have dome anything equivalent to waging Jihad terror, advocating slavery and child marriage, and attempting to impose the tyranny of Shari'ah?

The main issue I have with the mass of Western secularists, in fact, is that they haven't done enough to resist Jihad and Shari'ah.

What did *you* have in mind?

"how then can we explain Kaddafy going against US/NATO policy and supporting Milosevic against Moslem rebels in Bosnia and Kosovo?..."

An answer may be revealed in some Kosovar poodles:

Throughout the Yugoslav war years, Mr Qaddafi (senior) was staunchly loyal to the then Serbian leader, Slobodan Milosevic. He even aligned himself with the Orthodox Serbs against Bosnia's and Kosovo's Muslims.

...

...last year ...[President of Kosovo] Pacolli took a large party of Kosovars to Libya as part of his attempt to get Mr Qaddafi to abandon his pro-Serbian stance and to recognise the country. At one point the whole party was flown to the middle of a desert to meet the Libyan leader.

On arriving, Mr Gaddafi ordered them to sing and dance. When they ran out of tunes they were reprimanded by an aide. Eventually the good colonel told them they could stop, before dismissing them with words to the effect that he would never recognise Kosovo as long as their leaders remained American poodles. With that, the humiliated Kosovars were sent home.

As I mentioned in a previous comment, throughout the history of Islam, Muslims have often been at each other's throats in one way or another. Here, Goddawful chose to let his anti-Americanism trump an alliance with a couple of tiny Balkan Muslim polities.

An amusing story. But also disingenuous of Kaddafy whose opposition to Kosovo's independence antedates US/NATO intervention.

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