"Obama, if he is reelected, will make Netanyahu pay"

Salah wrote:

The Iranians' No 1 ennemy is not Israel, it's not the US: it's Saudi Arabia. I say let them have their nukes, sit back and enjoy the fireworks!
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Salah, Iran has repeatedly threatened to "wipe Israel off the map"—they have never threatened Saudi Arabia—or any other other Sunni-majority nation—in such a manner.

It is common to the point of cliché that Iranians scream "Death to America!" and "Death to Israel!". While Shi'ites clearly hate Sunnis, there is nothing similar aimed at Saudi Arabia.

While Shi'ite Iran is clearly jockeying for power and influence with the Sunni world in the Middle East, it is doing so by funding Hizb'allah and Hamas, whose main target is...Israel.

If Iran does develop viable nuclear weapons, I doubt very much that the Saudis will be their first targets.

"If anyone wonders why the West is on the brink of collapse, the fact that Americans have no qualms about leaving their dignity at the door and committing themselves to the security of a petulant Asian state is surely the biggest clue."
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Boy, you sure seem sure of yourself in regarding all of us Americans as being stupid and having no qualms whatsoever about abandoning our supposed "dignity".

I suppose that "petulant Asian state' you refer to is Israel, though you sneakily attempt to conceal it.

You're a Muslim. Admit it and I'll argue your faulty premises. Don't admit it and I'll tear your "theory" to shreds anyway.

Have at it, Mohammedist!

"Death to Israel" and "Death to the US" is the motto of every Muslim country. Deep down, they hate each other much more than they hate the West.
Remember: 19550 islamic deadly attacks since 9/11, most of the victims are Muslims!!!

You're a clown! A buffoon, no less. You say that because Israel has a state-run healthcare and a state-run public transport system, they are socialist.
In that case, every country in the world is socialist, you nincompoop. Medicare, Obama's health policy, is socialist. But, like America, Israel has a private health care system, too.
And I suppose, like the good Samaritan, Israel's policy of extending free health care to Gazans who are treated at the expense of the Israeli state is something bad!

Your black and white caricature of a free-wheeling libertarian economy shackled to a socialist state which is bleeding the US white is rubbish!

The US is being bled white by failed Muslim states. The US has just cancelled a $1 billion dollar debt that the Muslim Brotherhood should be paying.

No! We're not shackled to Israel, we're shackled to the failed, insh'allah Muslim economies whose incompetent, corrupt leaders couldn't organize f*** in a bordel!

Clown!

cheers to you as well!!! it is so ironic, that all muslims like you have the same thinking. I remmember when I was a kid, all they said was the US was a paper tiger!!! it is still here. 50 years later!!!! the more I read your post, the more I am convinced that you are just a troll. at first I thought you had a muslim back ground, but I am no longer sure of it. so going forward f...off!!!
M

Ya Habibi, you missed out the collectivist agriculture. That, presumably, isn't socialist either?

As to the Gaza strip, I couldn't give a damn if Israel provides the odd cancer-stricken Palestinian with healthcare. I'd just as soon they didn't. It's a disgrace that the butchers of Hamas prioritise the perpetuation of their own inept government over the provision of services to the people they claim to represent. In any case, it doesn't address my point, does it?

You might want to avoid getting yourself into a state of apoplexy about 'black and white caricatures' at a venue like Jihad Watch. It'll make Spencer blush.

As to Egypt, I don't think they should take a penny of American aid. It's a disgrace they take it and it's a disgrace that Washington hands it out. But, silly billy, you surely realise that aid to Egypt is merely a welfare payment to US arms manufacturers, since Cairo is a faithful customer of theirs?

And we're in agreement about inept and corrupt leaders in the Arab world.

The Iranians' No 1 ennemy is not Israel, it's not the US: it's Saudi Arabia

Sorry! The biggest enemy we have is us. Ignorance, complacency, liberals and their media machine against freedom and our way of life are the real enemy to fight.

DB: see my comments to AN below.
M

Ya Mariouma! Exclamation marks, sadly for you, do not a valid point make.

Anybody who claimed decades ago that America was a paper tiger were of course wrong. But it wasn't just some Muslims who made that silly claim. It was also a favourite of the Chinese. Your point is meaningless. More exclamation marks, perhaps?

And yes, the US is still here, 50 years later. Rotting on the vine. Your cities falling into ruin. Your constitution shredded and used for toilet paper by the Democrats and the Republicans alike. Your rights have gone. The Patriot Act and other disgraceful legislation makes a mockery of your country.

No matter. Do like Romney. Simply 'believe' in America and perhaps the rot will cease...

A better idea though would be to bring your troops home and abandon Israel to its fate.

"ArabNationalist" wrote:

I love it. If anyone wonders why the West is on the brink of collapse, the fact that Americans have no qualms about leaving their dignity at the door and committing themselves to the security of a petulant Asian state is surely the biggest clue.
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Of course Muslims see it as "petulant" for Jews to want to survive.

As for Israel being "Asian", surely you use that to make them as "the other". Nice trick—in Britain, where you allegedly have taken up residence, "Asian" is often code for "Muslim".

The fact is that Israel often appears with Europe, rather than the Middle East or Asia. And this makes sense, since she is in every moral sense a Western nation.

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The obsequiousness of Spencer and other right-wingers is surely embarrassing to true conservative Americans who embody true libertarianism.
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What could be more truly conservative than abandoning your democratic allies in favor of her barbarian neighbors? sarc/off Nice try...

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And you will find, among the dreary and simplistic American right, no issue with the fact that Israel is an absolutely socialist state. From their state-run healthcare, their state-run public transport to their collectivist kibbutzim and moshavim, the American 'right' is in thrall to a socialist ethnic-supremacist state that lives on US welfare. Spencer would no doubt sell his own eyes if it bought him favour with the Israeli establishment he is so in awe of.
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Actually, Israel has sharply moved away from the gloss of socialism that characterized Israel in her first years. Today, she is a vibrant capitalist state.

But from the very beginning, she was *far* more democratic than any of her Muslim neighbors.

As a self-described "Arab Nationalist", you must be fully aware of the dismal state of Muslim Arab nations, none of which have ever been democratic or free. they were bad enough under the motley assortment of dictators and tin-pot hitlers, and now many of them are even worse, and headed for full Shari'ah in the wake of the "Arab Spring'. Are you claiming that any of these present a more civilized model than Israel?

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Enjoy your crumbling infrastructure, the transfer of your manufacturing abroad and the death the American dream while the Israelis live high off your dime.
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Laughable coming from a Muslim whose coreligionists live off unearned oil wealth, "foreign aid". Jizya, tribute, ransom, and the fruits of caravan raiding.

The "Prophet" Muhammed had the greatest disdain for farmers and anyone else who actually worked for a living and tried to build something without resorting to robbery and slaving.

Nothing much has changed.

And you will find, among the dreary and simplistic American right, no issue with the fact that Israel is an absolutely socialist state. From their state-run healthcare, their state-run public transport to their collectivist kibbutzim and moshavim, the American 'right' is in thrall to a socialist ethnic-supremacist state that lives on US welfare.

Israel is not a perfect nation. Neither is the US, for that matter. But the point is that both Israel and the US are based on the same ideological principles -- Western, Judeo-Christian values. This is a struggle between Western free people and Islamic fascists, and whatever comparatively minor disagreements we might have regarding domestic management must take a back seat in the face of this challenge if our civilization is to survive. The same is true for European countries. There are things I would tweak about them as well if I could. But nonetheless, they share our common Western Civilization foundation, and we are on the same side. The brave work of the EDL is testimony to this.

What I personally find far more frustrating than Israel's socialist tendencies is Israel's almost sucicidal passivism. They seem to never fight back unless it is absolutely necessary at the very last minute. I would like to see both Israel, and the US, go far more on the offense.

(Sorry for any spelling errors. I just had to do a full system recovery, and I don't have anything with a spell checker re-installed yet.)

(Oh yeah, and that "ethnic-supremacist state that lives on US welfare" stuff is just nonsense.)

It is surely not petulant of Jews to want to survive. It is petulant of Israel (as opposed to the lazy blanket application of 'Jews') to demand that America hand over tax payer money in return for, quite literally, nothing - other than, of course, the mantra of being a 'staunch' ally. But repeat that mantra. Do it over and over again and see where it gets the United States.

And, as an Arab Nationalist, I am indeed aware of the failures of the Arab regimes. How can I not be? You are silly - as people who take Jihad Watch seriously must surely be - to assume that my criticism of the US and Israel must also go hand-in-hand with some sort of sanction for the decrepit and corrupt regimes of the Arab World. It does not. I eagerly await and encourage a return to Arab Nationalism, which I see as the only viable ideology in the Arab World. I wait eagerly for the whoremongers of Saudi Arabia and the other petty kingdoms of the region to join Gaddafi, Ben Ali, Mubarak and soon, Assad, either in death or in disgrace.

I am pleased, for example, by the reaction of the Libyan people against Salafists who are attempting to demolish the Sufi heritage of the region. I am pleased that the Muslim Brotherhood (el-ikhwaan el-Muslimeen) are popularly derided by Libyans as 'el-ikhwaan el-mufsideen'. Islamism will have its day in the Arab World but since the Arab Spring was brought about by grinding poverty and spiraling unemployment, I am confident that the Arabs will realise that frenzied piety will not improve their lot.

Unfortunately the secularists distinguished themselves by robbing the Arab World blind. New secularists will have to prove that they can run a country with transparency.

All of this is secondary, however, to America's untenable support for the State of Israel which bleeds you dry for naught.

Free yourself, GravenImage. Don't believe the Israeli narrative that you are a worthless Goy whose only purpose is to serve them. Cut Israel off. Send them on their way. Love your own country. Not theirs, or mine. Read the Federalist again. It's a book I love.

you what you are right. you have a pint here. President Obama and I went to school together. I will call him now and ask him to bring the troops home ASAP and throw the Israel and the Israelis under the bus. I cant beleive I did not think of thei solution myself!! Damn!! AN! you are so smart! I got to handed to you! if Obama agrees to this, would we then stop rotting to vine? I just want to make sure before I ask him. Please let me know.
M

arabs come together? thought you stopped beliving in fairy tales when you turned 10. No? let's examine the arb states:

Egypt: raw sewege
Yemen:cesspool
Hamas: terrorists
PLO: Pathetic
Syria:state sponsored terrorism
Joradn: a kingdom with no income
Somalia: Pirates
Sudan: war mongers

How do you suppose these countries can unit?
M

You talk of Arab countries uniting!

I lived and worked in Saudi Arabia during the 1990s. The Arab League used to meet in Cairo once in a while to 'unite'. Within ten minutes of meeting, the foreign ministers of the 20 or more Arab countries meeting in The Hilton were throwing chunky, glass ashtrays across the table at each other.

Blood flowed, insults were exchanged, not handshakes and promises of goodwill.

The only thing that keeps Arab countries united is their collective hatred of Israel. If Israel did not exist, Arab countries would be attacking each other constantly.

Arab nationalism! Don't make me laugh!

Miriam Rove was possessed of more balls last week than you'll acquire in a lifetime, little man. He had the good sense to leave the Islamic cesspool that is Iran, and further, overcame his early islamic programming and enjoys a good life--in the West--where a good life is possible. Oh, but you're an "Arab Nationalist," which is SO much more high-minded, right? Riiiight!

And, despite your arrogant rhetoric, the mechanics here are not complicated: Israel is a nation which shares our essential values and principles. It only makes sense that we should support her. Of which islamically-dominated nation can we say the same? Not ONE!

Arab Nationalism? I'm all for it! Nothing could make it more certain that these states will continue to exist in poverty, corruption, ignorance and internecine violence. Just as they are today!

Hey, is this really Reza Aslan? Cone on, fess-up--and say hi to Imam Feisal!

No one really cares what you think, troll...

The Arab League has always been a disgrace. You are right. That organisation says nothing about Arab Nationalism. It says, in fact, a great deal about the tendency of dictators to place their rule first and the welfare of the people a very distant second (if it features at all). Of course the Saudis and others would not want Arab unity. Arab unity would endanger their fiefdom and their access to billions of dollars to continue their gambling and whoring. Of course Gaddafi didn't want a union with any other Arab country. He and his family owned Libya in its entirety. He couldn't give that up... Voluntarily ;)

But, your comment says a lot about you. You hate the Arabs. Your hatred of Islam is a mere excuse. You hate the idea of the Arabs prospering and succeeding. Even if that meant a settlement with Israel - which I condone entirely - and an end to the conflict and the death of Islamism (which I would love) you would still find satisfaction in the suffering of the Arabs and other Third World peoples.

George S. Patton

George Smith Patton, Jr. (1885 – 1945 AD) was a United States Army officer most famous for his leadership commanding corps and armies as a general in World War II.

To me it seems certain that the fatalistic teachings of Muhammad and the utter degradation of women is the outstanding cause for the arrested development of the Arab.

He is exactly as he was around the year 700, while we have kept on developing.[35]

@gravenimage
I think Salah has a point.

Shia Iran fought an eight year war with Sunni Iraq that cost both sides a million casualities, where both sides used poison gas and where the Iranians forced children to walk through mine fields to clear those fields for the army. After all this the war ended in a draw and the following quote about sums up Iran's bitter resignation at how the war ended.
"As the costs of the eight-year war mounted, Khomeini, in his words, “drank the cup of poison” and accepted a truce mediated by the United Nations. "
http://www.newworldencyclopedia.org/entry/Ruhollah_Khomeini

Shia Iran and Sunni Saudi Arabia are potentially mortal enemies.
The important question is this?
Why should Israel, at great cost to itself, do the Saudi's work for them?
If Iran and Israel go at it, the Saudis can sit back and see both it's enemies destroy themselves.
Iranian nuclear weapons are an existential threat to the Saudis and Saudi Arabia should be the one to bear the cost of defanging Iran.
At the very least, Israel should not attack Iran before getting very great concessions from the Saudis.
If Israel was smart it would be Israel that gets to sit back and watch Iran and the Sunnis go at it.

@arabnationalist

You sound more like a Ron Paul Libertarian than an Islamist.
And I don't think anyone at JW hates Arabs, many of us object to Islam, not Arabs.

No. I am not Pam Geller. how about the answer to my question?
M

No,Arab Nationlist will be CELEBRATING his BS Nakba.
That's what JEW-HATRED and GREED have BOUGHT THEM.
DENY another people their RE-BORN ANCIENT STATE and wind up like the FAKE "Palestinians".
The ONLY TRUE Palestinians are Jews born there during the period leading up to Israeli Independence.
"Palestinian" Arabs should RETURN to Arabia.

Au contraire, we LOVE Christian Arabs here. Unfortunately, due to islam's bloody, barbarous history, there are all too few of them.

Having visited the Ha'aretz site, I can't help but note that the tone was disapproving towards the vandals and that Netanyahu, no friend of the Roman Catholic Church, also condemned the attack. How doe this compare with Egypt, where the kidnapping of Coptic Christian girls is scarcely mentioned as a problem? Or Pakistan (admittedly non-Arab), where the treatment of the Hindu and Christian minorities is an ugly travesty, and where the Jew-hatred is downright pathological?

And you will find, among the dreary and simplistic American right, no issue with the fact that Israel is an absolutely socialist state.

Justness of America's support for Israel would not suffer even if Israel were a socialist state.

In a conflict between civilized people and savages America is rightly supporting the civilized party. What else?

It is true that in the most recent past America has foolishly taken sides in conflicts between savages - in Libya, Egypt, Tunisia and now Syria. But that has little to do with America and everything with American socialist president and his administration.

Jewish people, in general, in Israel and outside of Israel, would like to help Arab people, and would like to be helped by Arab people, and would love to be friends with Arab people.

Jewish people, in general, in Israel and outside of Israel would love to have nothing to do with Arab (moslem) people.

I base my opinion on the assumption that Jewish people, in general, are normal people.

"Jewish people, in general, in Israel and outside of Israel would love to have nothing to do with Arab (moslem) people."

Well, at this point, I think that that may be partially correction to a certain degree (as in: "Leave us alone! Leave me alone!"). However, I think that very many Jewish people -- most Jewish people, I think -- (still) do feel affection for Arab people, and (still) would like to be friends with Arab people.

"ArabNationalist" wrote:

It is surely not petulant of Jews to want to survive.
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Really? Perhaps you should take that up with your genocidal coreligionists, who seem to have other ideas...

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It is petulant of Israel (as opposed to the lazy blanket application of 'Jews') to demand that America hand over tax payer money in return for, quite literally, nothing - other than, of course, the mantra of being a 'staunch' ally. But repeat that mantra. Do it over and over again and see where it gets the United States.
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You would have us throw our ally under the bus...but don't worry, it is for our own good, because you care so much...sarc/off

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Islamism will have its day in the Arab World but since the Arab Spring was brought about by grinding poverty and spiraling unemployment, I am confident that the Arabs will realise that frenzied piety will not improve their lot.
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Why will Islamism "have its day"? Perhaps because your pious coreligionists are so married to the barbarism of Jihad and Shari'ah. Certainly, Islam does *nothing* to improve a nation's economy-the whole idea is laughable.

In fact, Egypt has virtually destroyed its tourist industry, one of the very few sectors of the economy that was booming until the "Arab Spring".

Mali is even further along in the same process, and is now not only destroying their own UNESCO sites, but are amputating the limbs of petty thieves and stoning women to death in the public square.

In fact, the most Islamic of nations are the most impoverished—Yemen, Somalia, and Afghanistan—despite all that Western aid—come first to mind.

And I don't know what leads to your confidence that Muslims "will realise that frenzied piety will not improve their lot", when few believers have *ever* realized this.

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All of this is secondary, however, to America's untenable support for the State of Israel which bleeds you dry for naught.
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Really? Of course—how could the barbarism of over a billion Muslims *possibly* compare to the US having the temerity to send foreign aid to the Jooooos? Oh, the humanity!

As for our "untenable" support for an ally, of
proposed U.S. assistance for 2012, almost two-thirds is earmarked for Muslim nations and one-third goes to Arab countries. This completely dwarfs what is sent to Israel.

Most of these countries range from ambivalent to the United States to outright hostile, and things have generally gotten even worse in the wake of the Islamist revolutions across the Mahgreb.

In contrast, Israel, which receives about $3 billion a year, is—oh, no, there's that phrase again!—a staunch ally.

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Free yourself, GravenImage. Don't believe the Israeli narrative that you are a worthless Goy whose only purpose is to serve them. Cut Israel off. Send them on their way. Love your own country. Not theirs, or mine.
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"A worthless Goy whose only purpose is to serve them"—hmmmm, a bit of projection, I believe. This is how most Muslims look at Infidels, as a matter of fact.

Oh, and the fact that our "freeing" ourselves from supporting Israel would embolden Jihad is just a nice side effect of your "concern" for Americans...

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Read the Federalist again. It's a book I love.
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Is it now? Indeed, you must be a purist, since no one else has referred to these essays as anything other than the "Federalist Papers" since, oh, the 19th century...

That such an admirer of democracy as yourself would seem incapable of recognizing that Israel is the only democracy in the Middle East is a deep puzzle, however...sarc/off

More, replying to Buraq:

But, your comment says a lot about you. You hate the Arabs. Your hatred of Islam is a mere excuse. You hate the idea of the Arabs prospering and succeeding. Even if that meant a settlement with Israel - which I condone entirely - and an end to the conflict and the death of Islamism (which I would love) you would still find satisfaction in the suffering of the Arabs and other Third World peoples.
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What utter rot. No one here has any problem with Arabs as such one way or another.

And most Jihad Watch readers would have been *thrilled* if the "Arab Spring" had really led to any sort of prosperity and success for the Arab world—we just realized that this was highly unlikely in Dar-al-Islam.

And what sort of "settlement" would you like to see with Israel? For most of your coreligionists, this seems to involve genocide and the destruction of Israel. Is your vision any different?

And if you would really like to see the "death of Islamism", shouldn't you take that up with your fellow Muslims, rather than spending your time slyly trying to convince good Infidels to abandon Israel?

I guess using the handle "Anti-Semitic" would've been a little too obvious, right?

GravenImage

I agree w/ the rest of what you wrote, except the part about Israel being bunched w/ Europe. Israel is a Western Nation, but that doesn't make it a part of Europe. Those Jews who are native to Israel and didn't emigrate from anywhere are Asians - Israel falls within Asia every but as much as, say, Iran. And a good portion of their population are descendants from those who migrated to Israel from North Africa. Calling them Europeans is a stretch too.

Besides, the Europe of today is largely quite Judeophobic, who have thrown in their lot w/ the Muslims. It therefore doesn't do Israel any favors to call them an European nation. Asian countries, such as Japan, South Korea, Taiwan, Philippines and Thailand are a very good company for Israel to have. I think geography should be left altainted by politics. Otherwise, one could call Syria an African country, since for most of its history, it's been under the same government as Egypt.

Where is the evidence the vandalism of the Christian Church was carried out by settlers rather than by Arabs?

" Those Jews who are native to Israel and didn't emigrate from anywhere are Asians - Israel falls within Asia every but as much as, say, Iran."

Asia Minor, and the Mediterranean regions including North Africa was part of the West (by the industrious fait accompli of Roman expansion) for over half a millennium before Muslims stormed out of the desert and through violent rapine and pillage stole those lands from the West. Furthermore, Israel today represents in many ways one of the main foundations of Western civilization. No culture, no civilization, has boundaries set in stone; all cultural borders have a fungibility to them, historically.

Infidel wrote:

I agree w/ the rest of what you wrote, except the part about Israel being bunched w/ Europe. Israel is a Western Nation, but that doesn't make it a part of Europe...
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Your point is well taken, Infidel. Recall, though, I wrote, "The fact is that Israel often *appears* with Europe, rather than the Middle East or Asia. And this makes sense, since she is in every moral sense a Western nation". [emphasis added—GI]

What I meant by this was that Israel is often grouped with Europe in athletic events and intellectual conventions, either because the Muslim world will not appear with Israel in the case of sporting events, or has nothing to offer in the case of intellectual gatherings.

I did not mean to imply that Israel is actually a European country *as such*.

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Those Jews who are native to Israel and didn't emigrate from anywhere are Asians - Israel falls within Asia every but as much as, say, Iran. And a good portion of their population are descendants from those who migrated to Israel from North Africa. Calling them Europeans is a stretch too.
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You are right—but again, this is *not* what I meant to imply. I am well aware of Jews' historical roots in Israel, and how many Israeli Jews are Sephardic (Asian or North African) rather than Ashkenazi (European). In fact, many Muslims falsely claim that all Jews were actually European, and are thus a foreign transplant to the Levant and have no historic claim to Israel. I was *not* writing in support of that falsehood.

I agree with LemonLime's comments.

The Jewish world had Western roots—or, one might also well argue, that the Western world has Jewish roots. In any case, North Africa and even the Levant were not regarded as "the East" until invaded by Muslim barbarians.

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Besides, the Europe of today is largely quite Judeophobic, who have thrown in their lot w/ the Muslims.
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This is also true—to Europe's shame.

I just meant that I consider Israel and Europe to have common cultural and moral roots. That does not mean that they are identical today. I also consider the "Anglophone world"—the United States, Canada, Australia, New Zealand, as well as Great Britain—to have common roots with Europe, though they are not identical today. I consider all of the above, along with Latin America in many ways, to constitute "The West".

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It therefore doesn't do Israel any favors to call them an European nation. Asian countries, such as Japan, South Korea, Taiwan, Philippines and Thailand are a very good company for Israel to have. I think geography should be left altainted by politics.
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I agree that these democratic Asian nations are very good company for Israel—indeed, for the civilized world in general.

Certainly, Israel is, geographically, Asian. I never denied that, nor intended to.

But I consider Israel part of the West culturally despite her geography—just as I consider Australia and New Zealand part of the West, though their closest neighbors are Indonesia and Malaysia. But just like with Israel, those civilized nations have little in common with their barbaric Muslim "neighbors".

Infidel, I think our disagreement is more semantics than substance.