Palestinians enraged that Romney told truth about their lack of interest in peace, call him "ignorant" and "prejudiced"

Heavens above! Another slippery troll on the loose, like chowching!

You wrote, disarmingly, you thought: 'The UN is headed to a way where the Christian extremists will jump in the bandwagon along with the Mohammedans in this blasphemy law......'

The old 'moral equivalence' ploy.

Listen Chimera; there is absolutely no comparison between Imam Rauf's invention of Christian extremists and the millions of swivel-eyed slaves of Allah leaping over the nearest western compound wall with Kalashnikovs to murder the infidel occupants inside. Absolutely none!

Clown!

Have you read my other posts? Obviously not. Heck, I even agree with Sam Harris, an atheists that it is the Christian extremists who see the evils of Islam.

Unfortunately, if the Islamic proposal for blasphemy laws be passed in the UN, it is very likely that Christian extremists will DEMAND the same. To think of it, it is unfair that Islam followers get special privilege but followers of Christianity and other religions don't right? I even sort of feel bad that it is okay to mock Christians but not to mock Mohammedans.

But like what Bill Maher says, Christian extremists are more "evolved". The best thing they can do when offended is very vocally protest and burn stuff(not people) that offends them.

Let's just do a little "equivalence experiment," shall we? In fact, part one of the experiment is already complete. We had--on public display as art--a figure of Jesus in a jar of urine. Lots of people were offended over that; NOBODY died over it. So, now let's move to part two; let's drop a figure of Muhammad (I like the one with the dynamite turban)into a jar of urine and put it on public display. Perhaps we could start a pool on the final death toll?

And that's about what any attempt at equivalence between islam and Christianity amounts to--a jar of urine...

A jar of urine? whose urine?

"The urine of the Prophet is better than your prayers."
Asna al-Matalib 1/56 أسنى المطالب

"The whole body of the Apostle is pure even his human waste."
Dr Ali Gomaa, the Grand Mufti of Egypt

http://crossmuslims.blogspot.com/2010/11/glory-of-muhammad.html

Silence! I KEEEEEEL you! LOL!

the un is a joke to say the least! I will not worry about them tioo much
m

Ah, the typical "my religion is better than your religion".

Do not forget the Christian history of witch burning just because one was suspected practicing "witch craft".

This is the problem with Christians: they are forgetful of history.

It is good AND bad.

They forgot that it used to be very dangerous for scientist to present their new scientific evidences...

They forgot that they were burning Jews and heretics for hundred of years

On the other hand: They forgot what their series of Crusades were for. I believe that without it, Western Europe would eventually have been Islamized, therefore dooming democracy, secularism. Without the Crusades, Europe would have been like what the the former Persia and Byzantine is now today.

I think people here are confusing what I am saying with moral equivalence.

But this is what I am saying: Shall the Islamic anti-blasphemy law pass the UN, it will pave way for Christian extremists (e.g: Creationists who hate evolution -- see South Korea, the Christians there want evolution banned from public schools, anti-gay rhetorics). Therefore, ultimately paralyzing freedom of speech.

While I admit that Christian extremists are more evolved than even Muslim moderates, it is no excuse for anti-blasphemy laws. And this is what should be avoided. (BTW, I never said that Christian extremists of today kill unbelievers, what I am implying is the death of free speech. Christians may not kill those who offend them but definitely, free speech will be killed because people are not allowed to question the holy books or what the pope says.

Do not forget you owe the authentication of some places in your holy book to free speech.

Christian extremists?

Now who are these Christian Extremists?

Or, adhering to which one of the 10 Commandments makes Christian extreme?
"Thou shall not murder"? "...not steal"?"...not lie"?, "...shall not covet your neighbour's wife"?...

I hope you can agree that what makes a mohammedan extreme is the faithfulness with which he follows the example of his "prophet" muhammad. The more faithful the more extreme.
Osama Bein Laden and thousands, if not millions, of his murderous imitators come to mind.

But by the same token the "extreme Christian" must be one who tries to follow the example and the commands of Christ. I should think Mother Theresa must, therefore, be extremely extreme Christian. How come that, somehow, I am not terrified by a thought of thousands of Mother Theresas in our midst?

Is that perhaps that the concept of extreme, or fundamental, as applied to mohammedans must mean something inherently different and diammetrically opposed to "extreme" when applied to Christians?

This website is called jihadwatch, not extremechristianitywatch for a reason that it watches jihad - not Mother Theresa and her imitators. You are of course free to flash your contempt and hostility toward Christianity. But if you can't control them you should seek other websites. Seriously, you are making nuisance of yourself. Could you please try to get lost?

Anti-gay rhetorics from Sodomy talks in the bible, you forgot? (Really, god hates fags?)
The anti-evolution, pro Creation because it is incompatible with the book of genesis.
How about the anti-feminists movement? the catholic church does not even allow women to be priests or pope.
the anti-birth control in many catholic countries
the anti-divorce movements

Extremism = taking the supposed holy book all too literal.

Christianity is not Jainism

The more moderate face of Christianity and Catholicism today was brought about by Vatican II which happened in the 1960s. The pre-Vatican Catholicism was pretty muhc intolerant.

Wait a minute...

You're slippery as an eel, aren't you? I didn't say I was a Christian. I didn't apologize for the history of Christianity. And I surely as hell didn't come out against free speech!

What I said was that the ultimate "blasphemy," placing a figure of Christ in a jar of urine, has already been done here. And, NOBODY was murdered over it. And I invited you to try the same with a figure of Muhammad--and suggested that there's likely to be a death toll involved. I missed your answer to that?

The simple point (not so simple for you, apparently) that I made was that Christianity has evolved, and is part of what we know as the civilized world. Islam didn't have much to start-with, has not evolved from the 7th Century, and exhibits no signs that it ever will.

Oh, and please--I don't need any lectures on freedom-of-speech, thanks. I make no apologies for being an American and treasure my rights and freedoms--rights and freedoms that muslims--not Christians--despise and would joyously take away from me...

When did I say you were Christian? But then, I think you admitted it in this line:

"The simple point (not so simple for you, apparently) that I made was that Christianity has evolved, and is part of what we know as the civilized world."

I was pointing out the typical anti-gay, anti-science rhetoric usually found in the Christian extremist groups.

While it is true that Christianity has sort of evolved, it did not completely. There is still an anti-gay, anti-science attitude primarily because these people take all too literally what the bible says. It is even hard to for Christians, Catholics especially to allow equality for women. No female pope, no female priests.Just nuns.

Stem-cell research would have benefited a lot of cancer patients.

Pro-gay attitude would elevate further equality (why are Christian extremists scared of gays? Are they gonna eat you?)

But I agree that Christians, even the extremists are more evolved than the Muslim moderates, but still that does not excuse the Christian extremists.

Are you American?

Well, you guys need to catch up with news around the world!

http://www.nature.com/news/south-korea-surrenders-to-creationist-demands-1.10773

"Antipathy to evolution

In a 2009 survey conducted for the South Korean documentary The Era of God and Darwin, almost one-third of the respondents didn’t believe in evolution. Of those, 41% said that there was insufficient scientific evidence to support it; 39% said that it contradicted their religious beliefs; and 17% did not understand the theory. The numbers approach those in the United States, where a survey by the research firm Gallup has shown that around 40% of Americans do not believe that humans evolved from less advanced forms of life."

South Korea has quite a large Christian population. Or do you think South Korea is entirely Buddhist (do you interchange South Korea with North Korea?)

The Christian dogma has still many conflict with the modern world.

I don't see Gay rights and stem cell research reconciling with the Christian doctrine.

You wrote: '...it is the Christian demagogues who sees the true nature of Islam.'

A demagogue or rabble-rouser is a political leader who appeals to the emotions, prejudices, and ignorance of the poorer and less-educated classes.

So, a back-handed insult to Christian leaders. You're a troll, for sure. I can see that others on JW have spotted you on the radar.

Of course, rabble rousing is an Islamic characteristic, as we have seen over the past few days.

A few points, Chimini, if you don't mind.

First, "Christian extremists" (your term, not mine), are not that plentiful and even these do not threaten harm or death for mocking or disagreeing with them, contra Muslims. They pose little or no threat to liberty while Muslims pose a huge threat to freedom.

Second, the European heritage is very much in part Judeo-Christian. The two intellectual cornerstones of Western Civilization are Greek and Jewish thought. Simply because Judaism and Christianity technically did not emerge in Europe but rather in a portion of the Asian continent is of no more consequence in typing the Judeo-Christian tradition European than is the fact that the Greek alphabet emerged from that of the Phoenicians who were themselves, of course, not of Europe.

Third, Judaism and Christianity at their best do not simply demand obedience. Doubt is a major feature of the Jewish and Christian intellectual inquiry into the nature of the cosmos. As David Hume, the great Scottish philosopher, shrewdly observed, the finest Christian is a skeptic.

Fourth, while I retain a great deal of admiration for ancient Rome, the Romans never had a democracy, even during the Early and Middle Republics (c.509-133 B.C.), the way certain ancient Greeks, particularly the Athenians, did. So, attributing democracy to the Romans is simply an historical error.

Fifth, in the fight against Islamic supremacist designs, we need as broad a coalition as can be obtained. Insulting a portion of that coalition makes no sense. I hope you'll see the wisdom of this once you reflect upon it.

Sixth, as for pre-Vatican II Catholicism being "pretty much intolerant," I do not share your assessment here. Strict, yes. Intolerant, no. Are you aware, for instance, that it was the Catholic Church that was the first major Christian sect to accept the teachings of Charles Darwin? Pope Leo XIII (1878-1903) did so in a roundabout, Vaticanese kind of way by indicating that there was no reason for religion and science to be at odds with one another. This was done as far back as the 1890s.

Yeah, I missed the news that the South Koreans were hanging gays from construction cranes, a la the Iranians? I missed the news that Christians and Jews were stoning people to death for adultery, murdering people for changing faiths, forcing women to cover themselves, honor-killing their daughters--and, how about all those Christians hijacking airliners and flying them into buildings?

I see your problem: You have a hard-on for Christianity. Hey, whatever blows your skirt up. But, as thomas_h reminded you, this is Jihadwatch, not anything-else watch.
I'm sure there are places where your Christian-bashing will be well-received--you could try Loonwatch or the Huffington Post, for instance. But you're wasting time and bandwidth here. But no more of mine, though!

Toodles!

"A demagogue or rabble-rouser is a political leader who appeals to the emotions, prejudices, and ignorance of the poorer and less-educated classes.Oh please, did you not see Pastor"

Which is common in many different Christian sects.

Just look at those who preach that being a homosexual is a sin and will burn in hell.

You have not really reading, have you?

One: I credited Christian extremists being more evolved that even Islamic "moderates". However, that does not excuse Christian extremists from being homosexual bigots and anti-science, and covertly anti-female(still don't want a female priest?).

Two: I am critical of many religion particularly the organized religion that usually encourages herd mentality.

Three: I never said nor implied that South Korean Christians were blowing up people. What I was trying to say, there are still many Christians who are still in their "regressive mode". Banning evolution...seriously. So old school!

Thank you for your reply.

When I say Christian extremism, I do mean to imply it in the same manner as Islamic "extremist". I acknowledge that they are centuries ahead of even the "Islamic moderates". But the Christian extremists can be a powerful POLITICAL force, varying from country to country that impedes progressive thinking.

In the Philippines, the Catholic church is very influential and has the ability to influence politics over there. The Philippines does not have a divorce law nor a reproductive health bill because the Catholic Church over there have been threatening professors and politicians of mass civil disobedience. It never encouraged dialogue.

And the Catholic Church over there (sanctioned by the Vatican) have been threatening professors that are pro-reproductive health and even threatened the current president of excommunication. That is intolerance at its core and encouraging herd mentality just like the case in South Korea.

While I will say that there are Greek philosophy remnants on the Christian theology (well, more of like Catholic), Europe at its core, Greco-Roman. Much of the values are rather derived directly from Pre-Christian Europe. Many European values which made what Europe is today came from the ancient Philosophers when there were no Christians in Europe and there were no Jews in Greece. Back at the time when a lot of Greeks and Romans believed in their "pagan gods". The curiosity about nature and reality did not stem from the Judeo-Christian theology. It predates it.

If an anti-blasphemy law in the UN will be passed in the UN, it will be the rise of "Chrislam" theocracy because, not only in the Muslim world but also in "Christendom" especially in non-European part of Christendom where the Christian sects and Catholic church encourage herd mentality.

Since I mentioned the non-European Christendom, if one has noticed, there aren't many Christian thinkers from those places...as compared to Europe. I "theorize" it's the absence of the understanding of the Greco-Roman core.

Dear Chimini,

No educated person can honestly say that christianity has been depressing science. Have you seen this list? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Christian_thinkers_in_science

You are wrong also if you claim that christianity plays down equality of genders:
http://www.religioustolerance.org/cfe_bibl.htm

I believe you are still underestimating the Judeo-Christian tradition. As an example, once the ancient Jews in their religious development made God a purely spiritual phenomenon, rather than a divine entity like those of ancient Egypt and Greece who still inhabited a physical world, this served as a precursor for using nature to man's advantage, including the understanding of it intellectually rather than treating with it mystically, as something which is ultimately the domain of the gods, this in turn functioning as a prerequisite for developing the scientific method.

As another example of what I believe is your hostility to the Christian tradition, you seem oblivious of the extraordinary artistic legacy of Roman Catholicism, arguably the greatest artistic legacy of any religion in the history of man (e.g., Gregorian Chant, Gothic cathedrals, Italian Renaissance painting and sculpture, Baroque architecture, etc.)

Finally, I appeal to you again to understand that in fighting the menace which is Islam we need as many people as we can gather for this fight---Christians, Jews, Buddhists, Hindus, Sikhs, agnostics, atheists, etc. Why go after a portion of a coalition that is fighting the good fight against the truly awful phenomenon which is Islam? One fight at a time is always the best policy unless it is absolutely necessary to engage in more than one fight. I submit to you that right now it most definitely isn't.

You say that 'rabble-rousers' are common in Christian sects. Yeah? How many of them reach the front page of Newsweek, hyperventilating about whatever offends them?

If you want to see 'rabble-rousing', check out the 'Friday prayers' syndrome where crowds exit mosques at a gallop the world over, searching for victims to murder.

That NEVER happens in Christianity. Never!

You're a clown!

Indeed! It was the understanding that the Universe is Rational (historially, from Plato and Aristotle then (eg)Augustine and Aquinas. Thus there are "Laws of Nature" that can be investigated. This thinking is abscent, even discouraged in Islamic cultures for instance) that provided the fertile ground where Science could flourish: ie Judaeo-Christian Europe and NOWHERE else!

Wellington's right, Chimini. It's extremely unwise to split a "coalition of the willing" into squabbling factions before the threat is dealt with. Even you will no doubt agree militant Islam is FAR more dangerous to world peace and civilization than the Christianity you seem to despise just a little bit less. When Hitler was the main problem, Canada and the USA didn't start fighting over free trade disputes.

It's really not useful to talk about historical crimes, and hold them up today as current event problems. Yes, the Catholic Church did a lot of crappy things in the past, but let's move on, shall we? Today's problems are today's problems, let's leave out the sins of the fathers on both sides.

You complain of the similarly-intolerant actions of the Catholics in places like the Philippines and South Korea, and their "intolerance" of activities like divorce and homosexuality. Has it escaped your comparative radar that these Christian authorities are threatening excommunication, and not execution? Even you must admit the inherent difference in pacifism between Islam and Christianity.

You may not agree with the Catholic Church's opinion on what comprises immoral behavior (and I'm guessing your main beef with them is their homosexuality stance), but as long as they do not threaten your rights, who are you to tell them what they should believe is right and wrong? Vegetarians tell me all the time it is evil and WRONG for me to eat meat, or to fish and hunt. Do you think it is wrong for them to lay their morality judgment on me? Does it make them as bad as Iranian mullahs hanging people from cranes in soccer stadiums?

Fanatical intolerant Islam is the problem. Let's keep our eye on the ball. Plenty of time to hash out MINOR squabbles once the primary threat is dealt with.

Clarification.
"the Universe is Rational"...ie is created by a rational Creator and therefore it exists according to and manifests the rationality of its Maker. The Universe can then be examined in order to understand, as far as we are able, the rules by which it operates. It was precisely this belief in an "ordered" Universe that fired scientific enquiry.

I used a crap link, here's better:
http://godswordtowomen.org/jesus.htm
That is quite comprehensive.

But all these are a bit offtopic..

Goerge: I agree with you.
M

Hi Miriam!

I keep hoping defender of islam will weigh-in so you can give him your famous 2-word response! Hope all is well for you and I am raising a glass of Scotch to your brave son!

Geo

Hey Troll, why do you keep raising this issue of Christianity? No one cares. If we want to rationalise islam we should talk about islam not Christianity - and for a good reason.

Deadly Christian attacks since 9/11: Zero
Deadly Muslims attacks since 9/11: 20,000

There is no reason to fear Christian violence today in the same way there is no need to fear violence by Roman soldiers - they still exist, but they just don't do what they used to do.

There are more deaths by tortoise attacks since 9/11 than by Christians.

But the reason YOU aren't a concern to me is that there have NEVER been ANY deaths by TROLL attacks ever.

You, my friend are merely a nuisance.

Simply start your own blog and call it Christian Watch ...and good luck finding daily headlines to support your unjust cause because you'll need it.

Chimini is right

The only coherent, if totally absurd, claim in your endless, jumbled and desperately boring ranting.

You wrote:

"However the anti-Jewish racism that is integral in the tenets of the religion Christianity" ...

Integral? By definition "integral" means this:

in·te·gral/ˈintigrəl/Adjective: Necessary to make complete; essential or fundamental

Prove it! ...provide chapter and verse to support your preposterous claim: that anti-Jewish racism is an essential and fundamental tenet of the Christian faith. I challenge you to provide even ONE such passage. You can't, because they aren't any. Therefore, you need to retract this lie and pronto, pal.

The crisis of secularism
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NyrbslXx7

Evangelical leaders see secularism as a greater threat than Islam http://www.voanews.com/content/evangelical-leaders-see-secularism-as-greater-threat-than-islam-124364574/173523.html

Ten Commandments Judge Roy Moore: Secularism leads to sharia law
http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2012/05/29/ten-commandments-judge-roy-moore-secularism-leads-to-sharia-law/

Pope warns bishops about secularism
http://www.voxy.co.nz/national/pope-speaks-nz-bishops-about-impact-secularism/5/111358

Pope: New evangelisation needed to counter crisis of secularism
http://www.catholicculture.org/news/headlines/index.cfm?storyid=10494

Cardinal warns of 'aggressive secularism'
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/apr/24/cardinal-keith-obrien-aggressive-secularity

----

The current attitude and behavior of Protestant Mainline Christian Churches toward Israel and the Jewish people:

http://www.google.com/search?q=site%3Acamera.org+mainline

http://www.google.com/search?q=site%3Afrontpagemag.com+mainline+chrisitan+&num=100

----

"Vergognosi gli attacchi a Israele", by Orianna Falaci

http://www.oerby.dk/sider/Oriana%20Fallaci.htm

"...I find it shameful that the Catholic Church should permit a bishop, one with lodgings in the Vatican no less, a saintly man who was found in Jerusalem with an arsenal of arms and explosives hidden in the secret compartments of his sacred Mercedes, to participate in that procession and plant himself in front of a microphone to thank in the name of God the suicide bombers who massacre the Jews in pizzerias and supermarkets. To call them 'martyrs who go to their deaths as to a party'. ..."

"...I find it shameful that the Roman Observer, the newspaper of the Pope--a Pope who not long ago left in the Wailing Wall a letter of apology for the Jews--accuses of extermination a people who were exterminated in the millions by Christians. By Europeans. I find it shameful that this newspaper denies to the survivors of that people (survivors who still have numbers tattooed on their arms) the right to react, to defend themselves, to not be exterminated again. I find it shameful that in the name of Jesus Christ (a Jew without whom they would all be unemployed), the priests of our parishes or Social Centres or whatever they are flirt with the assassins of those in Jerusalem who cannot go to eat a pizza or buy some eggs without being blown up. ..."

----

Some examples of the actions and attitude of the Christian Church and Christians toward the Jewish people throughout the past two thousand years:

1st c. CE: The European people the Romans commit genocidal mass-murder against the Jewish people ("First Jewish War")
2nd c. CE: The European people the Romans commit genocidal mass-murder against the Jewish people ("Second Jewish War")

The Romans adopt the religion Christianity

Tenets of the religion Christianity: Belief that the Jewish people killed the deity of the Christian religion (who, according to the religion Christianity, was a Jewish (Yehoudi) man named Jesus (Yeshua -- a Hebrew common Jewish name at the time that he was alive), who, in fact, was, like hundreds of thousands of other Jewish people, killed by the European people the Romans; Belief that the Jewish people are evil and "guilty" for Jewish people not believing in the Christian belief that that Jewish (Yehoudi) man, Jesus (Yeshua), was the son of the deity of the ancestral religion of the Jewish people, and that that Jewish man was the deity of the ancestral religion of the Jewish people

3rd c. CE: (Saint) Ambrose issues a call to burn all the synagogues; many synagogues are burned
5th c. CE: The Jewish people in Alexandria are massacred
11th c. CE: The crusaders massacre Jewish communities in the Rhineland
12th c. CE: The crusaders (once again) massacre Jewish communities in the Rhineland
12th c. CE: The Jewish people are accused of killing Christian European children and using their blood to make the unleavened bread (matza) that is made and eaten as part of the celebrating of the Jewish holiday Passover (Pesah)
13th c. CE: The Jewish people in England are expelled from England
13th c. CE: Fourth Lateran Council 1215 has several anti-Jewish rules, e.g. the wearing of the yellow role
13th c. CE: Forced conversions of Jews to Christianity all over Europe
14th c. CE: The Jewish people are blamed for the plague ('Black Death'). Some 300 European Jewish communities are wiped out. Massacred in Seville. pogroms all over Iberia
15th c. CE: The Spanish Inquisition. Many Jewish people are murdered. More than 150,000 are expelled from Spain.
16th c. CE Protestant anti-Judaism: Martin Luther 1543 “The Jews and their lies”; therein, and therefore, the included, and resultant, beliefs and propositions: "Jews do not work (they prefer leisure time)", suggesting to set synagogues on fire, etc.
16th c. CE: The Inquisition becomes a pan-European phenomena
17th c. CE: The Inquisition continues
18th c. CE: The Russian Czars begin a process of slow genocide against their Jewish subjects
19th c. CE: The rise of “modern” anti-Semitism 1) race theories, Gobineau, Chamberlain 2) term anti-Semitism; most popular first user: Wilhelm Marr 1879 3) Conspiracy theories; Dreyfus-affair in France 1894-1906; most important: The European racist hate-inciting propaganda fictional anti-Jewish book "The Protocols of the Elders of Zion", first edition in Russia in 1905, today reprinted in many Muslim countries, second best selling book, after the Qu'ran
19th c. CE: Huge pogroms (pillage and murder) against the Jewish people in Eastern Europe
20th c. CE: Huge pogroms against the Jewish people in Eastern Europe
20th c. CE: The mass-murder of approximately six million Jewish people in Europe -- almost all of the Jewish people in Europe -- by the Nazi regime of Germany and by thousands of the millions of Christian European and Christian Western non-European supporters of the Nazi regime of Germany.

And now there is, and for the past approximately ninety years there has been, a Western -- Christian culturally Christian-European, and culturally Christian-European post-Christian -- racist intendedly genocidal sophisticated propagandic and diplomatic and espionage war against the creation of, and, subsequently, against the existence of, the newly re-founded liberal democratic very small sole nation of the Jewish people, Israel.

----

All of this is just a small sample of what those of us who are Jewish have to endure from the millions of people such as yourself.

And the malicious perverse comment that you wrote to me is an example of what those of us who are Jewish have had to endure from the millions of people such as yourself.

How do you think I feel?

How dare you?

Hypocrite, you, and many others such as you, demonstrate that you, and such other people such as yourself -- Christians -- are not friends to the Jewish people nor to anyone else.

Hi, Champ, hope you're well !

Chimini is doing what so many trolls attempt to do: wrench the discussion thread away from the topic; in this case, Chimini doesn't want us to think about the truth of what Mr. Romney said, that 'palestinians', soi-disant, are **not** interested in peace with Israel.

''In his private remarks to donors, Romney said the Palestinians are committed to Israel's destruction and elimination.''

The truth of this is self-evident, in Hamas's very own charter, the koran, the statements of the muslim brotherhood, and the hysterical shriekings of innumerable 'sheiks', and 'imams'.

My take would be is that Chimini is, if not a mohammedan dementor in a mask, is at least a lefty, obama supporting, useful idiot, islamic supremacist enabler. He/she doesn't want us to think too much about the implications of Mr. Romney's truthful comments, hence the all too predictable, and boring, assaults on Christianity. I wonder why ? (sarc !) off.

Daniel, you are out of order here.

I know you have OCD, so I'm cutting you some slack because of it.

As Champ says, there is nothing in the Bible that justifies anti-semitism. Any anti-semitism evinced by Christian Churches, or individual Christians, is **against** the fundamental tenets of Christianity.

The vast majority, in fact, I would say **all** of the regular commenters at JW are pro-Israel, and on the side of the Jews. Your blanket condemnation of Christian Westerners, and commenters on this site, as anti-semitic is blatantly unfair. Have a stroll through the archives, and see how many JW articles have been in defence of Israel, and against the hatred of the muslim world.

Look at how many commenters, whether Christian, atheist, or agnostic, have defended Israel's right to exist, and evinced admiration and warmth for the Jewish people.

The only anti-semitic feeling on this website comes from mohammedan trolls, or leftist useful idiots, or mohammedan apologists.

I can understand, and make allowances for, your OCD, and your feelings of anger at how **some** in the West are prepared to throw Israel under the bus for their own selfish and reprehensible reasons, but this does not include the Christians, agnostics, and atheists who comment here at JW, and it **certainly does not** include Mr. Spencer himself, who has never wavered in his support for Israel.

How do you think I feel?

I don't know, beats me... Like an idiot? If so, you are to be congratulated as that would be an indication you may one day start reassessing your analytic and writing talents and stick to comments about, for example, weather. Just don't do it on this website. Maybe in your local paper. And if your repetitive verbosity makes them to politely decline your offer then print it as leaflets and hurl it from your balcony. If you don't live in a cellar, that is.

How dare you?

Oh, Bielak, Your Majesty - that was absolutely unintended. As I was skipping past your essay (I never read them, really) my eye spotted a single, detached from the rest of the text, sentence consisting of less than your standard 50-80 words, paragraph-long gibberish. I, stopped, I simply HAD to read it. And, to my great astonishment and delight, I understood it completely in one single reading. No going back to beginning, loosing track, extracting sense, yawning, falling asleep...none of that. As I remember correctly now the sentence was profoundly moronic, but it was superbly readable. And THAT was my point, your Bielak Majesty. I was actually complimenting your Majesty and I regret being so utterly misunderstood.

How do you think I feel?

I don't know, beats me... Like an idiot? If so, you are to be congratulated as that would be an indication you may one day start reassessing your analytic and writing talents and stick to comments about, for example, weather. Just don't do it on this website. Maybe in your local paper. And if your repetitive verbosity makes them to politely decline your offer then print it as leaflets and hurl it from your balcony. If you don't live in a cellar, that is.

How dare you?

Oh, Bielak, Your Majesty - that was absolutely unintended. As I was skipping past your essay (I never read them, really) my eye spotted a single, detached from the rest of the text, sentence consisting of less than your standard 50-80 words, paragraph-long gibberish. I, stopped, I simply HAD to read it. And, to my great astonishment and delight, I understood it completely in one single reading. No going back to beginning, loosing track, extracting sense, yawning, falling asleep...none of that. As I remember correctly now the sentence was profoundly moronic, but it was superbly readable.
And THAT was my point, your Bielak Majesty.
I was actually complimenting your Majesty on tremendous progress in coherency you have demonstrated through turning off in that short moment your otherwise quite unintelligible, numbingly tedious ranting.
I deeply regret being so utterly misunderstood.

But seriously now. I really think you are a pompous, deadly boring, confused, long winded, hysterical fool.

Hypocrite,

You wrote:

"As I was skipping past your essay (I never read them, really) my eye spotted a single, detached from the rest of the text, sentence"

You obviously view me as being "a whiny obnoxious little Jew" who is not worth even being accorded the normal human courtesy of being listened to.

That way in which you obviously view me is the typical way that Christian and culturally Christian people view whom they as being "uppity Jews".

I, and other Jewish people, outnumbered at least 50 to 1 by people such as you have no choice but to endure such evil from such people such as you.

Read, and comprehend, my previous message to you.

Rather: my previous message to you.

Are you really implying I am an antisemite, because I think you are a fool?
If so, then you are not just a fool, but a nasty, dishonorable fool.

Please go and do your whining somewhere else.

You wrote:

"Please go and do your whining somewhere else."

I'm not your servant, hypocrite.

You may go to hell.

Or you may read and comprehend my previous message to you.

You may go to hell.
Or you may read and comprehend my previous message to you.

LOL. Having been exposed previously to the endless dreariness of your prose it could be tempting to try the Hell for a change.

Jan,

I've appreciated your support of Israel and of the Jewish people and of me.

However,

What you wrote to me in your previous message is wrong.

As part of that, you wrote:

"As Champ says, there is nothing in the Bible that justifies anti-semitism."

Jan, that is not true. I'm sorry if my telling you this feels offensive to you, but saying that there is nothing in the Bible that justifies anti-semitism is absurd.

I don't have the wherewithal right now to look up and post passages from the Christian Bible, the New Testament, that vilify the Jewish people, but, before you or any other Christian or other culturally Christian person may accuse me of "not putting up", I'm almost certain that others can look up and post such passages from the Christian Bible, the New Testament.

I think that if you or any other Christian or culturally Christian person truly would want to look into this honestly, without bias, you or any other Christian or culturally Christian person could find and list and recite such passages from the Christian Bible, the New Testament.

"The perfidity" of "the Jews"...

"The Jews" killed "Christ"...

"The Jews" this... "The Jews" that...

etc.

I've read such quotes from the New Testament, the Christian Bible.

I've read such quotes, in, among other places, text comments posted by Christian vicious overtly ideologically -- genocidally -- anti-Jewish racists on pro-Israel videos on YouTube (videos which refute lies that vilify Israel).

And just the fact that the religion Christianity, as a tenet of the religion, accuses the Jewish people of killing the figure that the religion Christianity holds as being the deity of the religion Christianity -- a figure who was a Jewish man who, in fact, was killed by European people (the Romans) who committed genocide against the Jewish people and who then subsequently adopted the religion Christianity -- is, in itself, racist anti-Jewish.

And, moreover, what Christian Europeans have done to the Jewish people continuously throughout the past two thousand years (which is part of what I referred to, and partially listed, in my previous comment) speaks for itself.

However,

I do appreciate people who are Christian and who truly do support the Jewish people and Israel, and who truly are not malicious racist anti-Jewish -- people such as Robert Spencer and many of the Christian posters on this web site. I've expressed this before.

However, I'm frustrated and dismayed and vexed that so many Christians and other culturally Christian people refuse to acknowledge the pervasive anti-Jewish racism that is part of the culture of Western -- culturally Christian-European -- Christian and formerly Christian -- societies which is based on the anti-Jewish tenets of the religion Christianity and which has existed in extreme forms throughout the past two thousand years, and which is causing the Western libeling of, and belief in absurd perverse imbecilic malicious lies, about Israel -- the newly-re-founded very small sole nation of the Jewish people.

Much of the belief in absurd perverse imbecilic malicious lies, about Israel it is simple ignorance. But the core of it is caused by the propagation of lies by the members of Western governments, and by Western journalists, and by Western academics, etc. -- members of Western governments, and Western journalists, and Western academics, etc. who are propagating such lies out of what is mainly Western anti-Jewish racism.

And, of course, much of that libeling of Israel has been engaged in by ethnically Jewish people -- ethnically Jewish people who are experiencing, to severe degrees, the deep complex form of Stockholm Syndrome that most Jewish people are experiencing to various degrees.

And that Stockholm Syndrome has been caused mostly by what Jewish people have experienced throughout the past two thousand years and by what Jewish people are experiencing at the present time.

What the commenter "thomas_h" did to me in this blog post is a demonstration of this Western anti-Jewish bigotry.

And the comments by Christians and by other culturally Christian people, including comments by you, such as your comment to me, in response to comments which point out the anti-Jewish racism of Christianity and which point out some of the massive detrimental racist anti-Jewish actions by Christians and by Christian religious establishments are an example of the more common, less severe, form of that Western anti-Jewish bigotry.

You wrote:

"I don't have the wherewithal right now to look up and post passages from the Christian Bible, the New Testament, that vilify the Jewish people, but, before you or any other Christian or other culturally Christian person may accuse me of "not putting up", I'm almost certain that others can look up and post such passages from the Christian Bible, the New Testament."

You don't have the wherewithal? No, you don't have any PROOF! ...that's the bottom line.

And going foreward, no one should take anything you write seriously since you have perjured yourself most profoundly.

Thank you for proving my point ...

Champ,

No, I don't have the wherewithal. I'm exceedingly distressed, and I'm overwhelmed, and I'm not familiar with the Christian Bible, the New Testament, and I don't know where to start.

But, now, after getting your reply to me, I'm going to try do it anyway.

And did you read all of what else I wrote in my most recent comment? And did you read all of what I wrote in my other previous comments in this blog post?

What the hell is your problem, Champ? I didn't feel any personal antipathy toward you. I actually felt affection for you and appreciation for you -- just as I have felt for Christians who I though trully supported Israel and the Jewish people. I didn't even write any comments to you on this blog post. And I just wrote facts in comments that I wrote on this blog post. Facts. And how I feel. What the hell is wrong with you?

This demonstrates what I wrote about Western -- culturally Christian-European -- Christian and post-Christian -- anti-Jewish racism.

What the hell is wrong with you guys?

Hi, Jan! ...I'm doing well, thank you; and I hope the same for you and yours, my dear friend :)

You wrote:

"My take would be is that Chimini is, if not a mohammedan dementor in a mask, is at least a lefty, obama supporting, useful idiot, islamic supremacist enabler. He/she doesn't want us to think too much about the implications of Mr. Romney's truthful comments, hence the all too predictable, and boring, assaults on Christianity. I wonder why ? (sarc !) off."

Great observations, Jan, and I completely agree. Yes, it's very telling of those who have responsed so negatively to Romney pointing out the obvious; seems they prefer to keep the truth hidden perhaps so not to ruffle any muslim feathers. And they may have other reasons ..but it doesn't matter, since speaking the truth is a Change America needs, right now. Yeah I really Hope that Romney wins!

You're wondering why I'm confronting you? Wow, you can't possibly be that obtuse ...

Hey you leveled quite an inditement against Christians, Daniel, so of course I'm going to take issue with these charges; whether directed at me, or not. I mean that's how it works around here, dontchaknow. This is an open forum so what are YOU talking about.

And it's hard to reason with someone carrying such a huge chip on his shoulders ...try removing it because it's a barrier to honest debate.

Daniel,

You wrote:

"However the anti-Jewish racism that is integral in the tenets of the religion Christianity" ...

I still stand by my above response to this comment of yours ...

Furthermore, you didn't just offer your "opinion", but you charged Christian DOCTRINE with anti-Jewish racism when you claimed that anti-Jewish racish is somehow an "integral / tenet" of the Christian faith. By leveling such a claim, the burden of proof now rests on your shoulders to provide said "tenets", as you put it, or passages from the Bible, to support this charge. It is incumbent upon YOU to prove these charges; or retract them, which you promptly failed to do. Instead you're detracting from the main point with all this other nonsense that you don't enough time or wherewithal; oh, and that you don't even know the New Testamet well enough to produce such verses. Well, then why are you stating THIS? ...

That "anti-Jewish racism is integral in the TENETS of the religion Christianity" ...unquote.

And as you should know, a tenet is a specific DOCTRINE (or passage); and in this case, from the Bible.

It's so painfully clear that you don't have any proof to your claim against Christian DOCTRINE. You may dislike Christians, which is certainly your choice, but don't expect people to sit idly by when you make false claims against what it written in the Bible--not unless you're willing to take responsibility and back up your claim.

"Please go and do your whining somewhere else."

Yes, I think that Thomas_h stated it best ...

And I don't care whether you still have warm feelings for me, or not. What I care more about is defending the TRUTH; especially when it comes to defending my Christian faith.

Champ,

My initial comment on this post barely even mentioned any of this topic -- the topic Christianity. What I did mention of the topic of Christianity in my initial comment was just a response to people who apparently are Christian and who, in at least in one case, is not Christian but but who is culturally Christian, attacking another commenter who brought up certain issues about the Christian church and about Christians and about Christianity.

And what I wrote in my initial comment about the topic Christianity referred only to the anti-Jewish racism of Western culture and the anti-Jewish aspect if the nature of the religion Christianity. That Western anti-Jewish racism is a deeply engrained part of Western culture is a fact. And although, now, many Christians are supportive of Israel and think of themselves as being pro-Jewish, and are not malicious anti-Jewish racist, the religion Christianity, for approximately two thousand years, as practiced by most Christians for most of those approximately two thousand years, has been explicitly and overtly racist anti-Jewish, and the religion Christianity is inherently, by its very nature, racist anti-Jewish. And, also, additionally, I am almost certain that there are statements in the Christian Bible, the New Testament, that explicitly vilify Jewish people -- statements that refer to the Jewish people as being "perfidious", and other statements such as that.

I still don't feel any personal antipathy toward you. And I still feel affection for you. And I still want to be friends with you.

Will you please read all of this comment that I wrote in response to this personal attack against me by the commenter "thomas_h"?

Will you please read all of this comment that I wrote -- which was part of what I wrote to which the commenter "thomas_h" wrote that initial personal attack against me?

And will you please read all of this comment that I wrote to Jan?

Will you please try to understand how I feel?

Will you please try to understand how I feel in my experiencing being Jewish in the world?

Will you please try to understand how I feel in my having been personally attacked in the way that I was attacked here?

Danial,

You wrote:

"And what I wrote in my initial comment about the topic Christianity referred only to the anti-Jewish racism of Western culture and the anti-Jewish aspect if the nature of the religion Christianity."

No, that isn't true, Daniel ...

And I just addressed this issue in my above responses to you.

You didn't just explain that anti-Jewish exists within the "Western culture", but that anti-Jewish racism was an "integral / tenet" ;or DOCTRINE, and that it exists within the pages of scripture!

C'mon, now you're trying to soften the edges of what you initially wrote. I'm sorry, but the proof is right there for all to see. Okay now you look foolish and appear to be lying.

As far as how it feels to be Jewish ...

Well, now that's an entirely different matter. You are free to express those feelings, but you not free to level charges against Christian DOCTRINE that isn't true. Understand?

For what it's worth, I LOVE the Jewish people, and I especially LOVE Israel!! I even own a Jewish flag and I hang it outside of our home during special events in support of Israel; and I also have a bumper sticker on my car that reads "I Stand With Israel" ...which is a small thing, I know, but at least it's something. I openly love the Jews and Israel, so I want you to know that. And I have nothing against you personally; nor do I have any interest in what others have written to you specific to this thread. They have their opinions, and I have mine. I was merely confronting your false claim against Christian doctrine.

Take care ...

Champ,

Thank you for replying to me.

You wrote:

"Danial,

"You wrote:

"'And what I wrote in my initial comment about the topic Christianity referred only to the anti-Jewish racism of Western culture and the anti-Jewish aspect if the nature of the religion Christianity.'

"No, that isn't true, Daniel ..."

This following is what I wrote about the topic Christianity in my initial comment:

"Chimini is right.

"But, also, as CornHolio expressed: It's not beneficial to 'split a 'coalition of the willing' into squabbling factions before the threat is dealt with.' ... 'Fanatical intolerant Islam is the problem. Let's keep our eye on the ball. Plenty of time to hash out MINOR squabbles once the primary threat is dealt with.'

"However the anti-Jewish racism that is integral in the tenets of the religion Christianity and which has been an intense and prevalent part of Christian European culture for approximately two thousand years, and which is a deeply engrained part of the culture of culturally Christian-European -- Christian of formerly Christian -- societies, is a core factor of the Western attack on Israel, and, as part of that, the Western collusion with the contemporary Islamic supremacist political movement, and needs to be acknowledged and countered and dispelled."

Again, I ask you to read all of what I have written in the comments that I have written on this blog post, and I ask you to read all of the comments that have been written to me on this blog post.

In any case, I appreciate your support of Israel and your affection for the Jewish people. Thank you for supporting Israel.

Dan

You wrote:

"And, also, additionally, I am almost certain that there are statements in the Christian Bible, the New Testament, that explicitly vilify Jewish people -- statements that refer to the Jewish people as being "perfidious", and other statements such as that."

Almost certain? Well, Daniel, c'mon ..you need to be absolutely "certain" before leveling such false charges against Christians and the Bible on Jihad Watch--or expect being confronted by others. I mean the choice is yours. You can't expect people to let you get away with these false claims; especially since said tenets, or doctrine, do not exist anywhere in the Bible.

Hey you're entitled to your own opinion, but not your own facts. You need to do your homework, first, before writing such outrageous and false claims against Christians and the Bible.

Correction:

I now realize that my writing "Chimini is right" encompassed more than the topic of the anti-Jewish racism of Western culture and the topic of the anti-Jewish aspect of the nature of the religion Christianity.

However, my writing "Chimini is right" certainly did not warrant the vicious response that I got.

And the malicious attacks against Chimini were not warranted.

And I understand to be true what Chimini wrote.

I also understand to be true other things that I wrote, such as:

"But, also, as CornHolio expressed: It's not beneficial to 'split a 'coalition of the willing' into squabbling factions before the threat is dealt with.' ... 'Fanatical intolerant Islam is the problem. Let's keep our eye on the ball. Plenty of time to hash out MINOR squabbles once the primary threat is dealt with.'"

Champ,

I was almost certain that, and I still think that, there are such explicit racist derogatory remarks about the Jewish people in the Christian Bible, the New Testatment. However, I don't know for sure whether or not there are. But I think that there are.

And, related to this, it is my understanding that the phrase "perfidious Jews," was in the Catholic Christian "Good Friday liturgy", but was removed at some time in the mid-1900's.

But why are you focusing on that specific thing that I wrote?

It has been understood by adherents of the religion Christianity for two thousand years that the religion Christianity accuses the Jewish people -- or at least what the religion Christianity defines as being a subset of the Jewish people -- of being those who the religion Christianity accuses of being responsible for the death the deity of the religion Christianity.

And there is the case of all of the other things that I wrote about the situation that Jewish people have been in, and are in, because of that belief and because of the actions of the leaders of what have been the main denominations of the Christian church toward the Jewish people.

Again, I don't have anything against Christians who are truly supporting Israel and who don't feel antipathy toward the Jewish people. I actually feel affection for Christians who are truly supporting Israel and who don't feel antipathy toward the Jewish people. I especially feel affection for Christians who feel affection for the Jewish people.

And I appreciate Christians who support Israel.

I appreciate all people who support Israel.

Daniel,

You wrote:

"It has been understood by adherents of the religion Christianity for two thousand years that the religion Christianity accuses the Jewish people -- or at least what the religion Christianity defines as being a subset of the Jewish people -- of being those who the religion Christianity accuses of being responsible for the death the deity of the religion Christianity."

You mean, Jesus, right?

Who crucified Jesus, Daniel? Wasn't it the Jews? And no one "accused" the Jews of crucifying Jesus ...this is what happened. Stating this as an accusation implies that someone else MAY have killed Him. Sorry, but those are the facts as they stand--the Jews crucified Jesus. Or do you disagree with the history books?

BTW, Jesus laid down His OWN life, as the Bible explains; but then you would know that if you read the New Testament.

Here it is in the gospel of John 10:18:

"No one takes it from me, but I lay it down of my own accord. I have authority to lay it down and authority to take it up again. This command I received from my Father."

>>>He is of course referring to laying down His own life.

Again, who crucified Jesus, Daniel? ...what does history tell us?

Champ,

You wrote:

"Who crucified Jesus, Daniel? Wasn't it the Jews? And no one "accused" the Jews of crucifying Jesus ...this is what happened. Stating this as an accusation implies that someone else MAY have killed Him. Sorry, but those are the facts as they stand--the Jews crucified Jesus. Or do you disagree with the history books?"

Now you have finally expressed the Christian racist anti-Jewish tenet that is the belief that "The Jews" crucified Jesus.

No, Champ, "The Jews" didn't crucify the Jewish man Jesus (Yeshua) who the religion Christianity worships as a deity.

The European people the Romans, who were militarily occupying and governing the nation of the Jewish (Yehoudi) people, Yehouda, crucified that Jewish man Jesus (Yeshua). Just like they crucified several thousand other Jewish people.

And what "history books" are you referring to? Roman Christian "history books"? Writings of the Roman Catholic Christian church? Writings of organizations of other denominations of the Christian church?

----

You have repeatedly accused me of lying.

I didn't lie. I expressed what I understood to be the case.

And I told basic truths about the situation that the Jewish people are in, and have been in for two thousand years, as a result of the religion Christianity. And I told basic truths about, as part of that, the nature of Christianity as it has been practiced for the past two thousand years. And I told basic facts about the past actions of very many Christian Europeans toward the Jewish people, and about what have been the past, and, moreover, *contemporary*, actions of the the main denominations of the Christian church toward the Jewish people.

And, I was viciously verbally attacked for doing that by people who apparently are Christian.

And I didn't even initiate this topic. I just merely briefly referred to it in my initial comments in which I talked mainly about other aspects of the situation that the Jewish people are in. And the topic of detrimental aspects of Christianity was started here by someone else who was attacked for doing that by Christians and by other culturally Christian people.

And after I made my brief remark in which I stated that I understood the comments by that person who was verbally attacked to be right, I expressed my understanding that also it's not good to cause discord among those who are opposing the current Islamic supremacist political movement.

Champ,
You have demolished D. Beilak thoroughly and in a masterly manner.
Well, you were armed with Truth and he only had lies at his disposal. He never stood a chance...

Daniel,

Your answer is terribly flawed since it is incomplete ...

The Jews crucified Jesus THROUGH the Romans. At the time of Jesus' crucifixion, the Romans had conquered all the area in which Jesus lived and taught. The Romans allowed the Jews to continue with their Sanhedrin (their government), but the Romans took away capital punishment from the Jews. In order to have Jesus crucified, the Jewish leaders had to manipulate Rome into doing it. First, the Jewish leaders had to lie--make up false charges against Jesus. Then the Jewish leaders persisted in their demands for crucifixion.

True, New Testament writers charged the Jews with having crucified Jesus, but this is historic fact, not "anti-Jewish racism", as you falsely allege. You are twisting doctrine and facts to suit your own viewpoint, and in an attempt to turn Christians into anti-semitic haters. But facts are facts--the Jews killed Jesus. Hey sorry if the truth hurts. Oh, and I'm not falling for your stupid trap, either.

Also, remember this, the Jews were given a choice of who they wanted crucified: Jesus or Barabas, and THEY chose Jesus, not the Romans soldiers. I'm certain that the Roman soldiers would have been just as happy to crucify Barabas. It didn't matter to them.

Again, your facts are flawed since they come up short, and now they are beyond repair.

That said ...

Should "Jews" today be punished? No. Not only that, but all of us are sinners--both Jews and Gentiles--and all in need of God's grace. So, in a sense, each of us, including both you and I, are responsible for Jesus' crucifixion: as an atoning sacrifice for our sins.

You wrote that you didn't read all of what I wrote.

And yet you viciously verbally attacked me for my having stated facts.

And you wrote:

"Champ, You have demolished D. Beilak thoroughly and in a masterly manner. Well, you were armed with Truth and he only had lies at his disposal. He never stood a chance..."

I didn't tell lies.

I told facts of the past actions of the Christian European world toward the Jewish people for throughout the past two thousand years. And I listed information about the *current* actions toward the Jewish people and Israel by the organizations of what have been the main denominations of the Christian religion.

And, also, I was distressed and overwhelmed (I am distressed and overwhelmed and ) by the perverse hypocrisy of Christians who were attacking people who me, and I expressed things about what I thought were specific statements in the Christian Bible which, with malicious epithets, referred to the Jewish people, but which I'm now not sure are in the Christian Bible, but whose being in the Christian Bible or not being there is irrelevant to the fact that the doctrine of the religion Christianity as it has been understood and followed for the most of the past two thousand years is racist anti-Jewish and has caused extreme harm to the Jewish people.

And I didn't even bring up the issue of Christianity.

And my initial main point was not about the doctrine of Christianity.

And what "truth" has Champ expressed that you have referred to?

Perverse hypocritical false accusations.

How did Champ "demolish me"?

By propagating the typical Christian form of hypocritical obfuscation and racist false accusations against an overwhelmed distressed Jewish person defending his libeled vilified wronged besieged endangered small-numbered people.

----

Since you have continued to pursue this issue of Christianity and the Christian church and Christian doctrine:

"...I find it shameful that the Catholic Church should permit a bishop, one with lodgings in the Vatican no less, a saintly man who was found in Jerusalem with an arsenal of arms and explosives hidden in the secret compartments of his sacred Mercedes, to participate in that procession and plant himself in front of a microphone to thank in the name of God the suicide bombers who massacre the Jews in pizzerias and supermarkets. To call them 'martyrs who go to their deaths as to a party'. ..."

"...I find it shameful that the Roman Observer, the newspaper of the Pope--a Pope who not long ago left in the Wailing Wall a letter of apology for the Jews--accuses of extermination a people who were exterminated in the millions by Christians. By Europeans. I find it shameful that this newspaper denies to the survivors of that people (survivors who still have numbers tattooed on their arms) the right to react, to defend themselves, to not be exterminated again. I find it shameful that in the name of Jesus Christ (a Jew without whom they would all be unemployed), the priests of our parishes or Social Centres or whatever they are flirt with the assassins of those in Jerusalem who cannot go to eat a pizza or buy some eggs without being blown up. ..."

-- Orianna Falaci, Vergognosi gli attacchi a Israele
http://www.oerby.dk/sider/Oriana%20Fallaci.htm

Israel as the Ram in the Thicket, by Dexter Van Zile,

http://mfnklst.blogspot.com/2010/07/israel-as-ram-in-thicket.html

http://blog.camera.org/archives/2010/07/israel_as_the_ram_in_the_thick.html

"In the course of my work, I have become increasingly worried about the message offered by mainline Protestant churches (and some quarters of the Roman Catholic Church) about the Arab-Israeli conflict. Not only is the narrative offered by these institutions distorted, it has a negative impact on the safety of Jews throughout the world. ..."

The World Council of Churches Broadcasts a Lethal Narrative, by Dexter Van Zile

http://www.camera.org/index.asp?x_context=7&x_issue=37&x_article=2127

The Mainline Protestant Churches and Israel, by Joseph Puder
http://frontpagemag.com/2012/joseph-puder/the-mainline-protestant-churches-and-israel/

Mainline Christian Churches Respond to Hamas and Hezbollah Aggression, by Dexter Van Zile

http://www.camera.org/index.asp?x_context=7&x_issue=61&x_article=1159

Mainline Churches Embrace Burge's False Narrative, by Dexter Van Zile

http://www.camera.org/index.asp?x_context=7&x_issue=21&x_article=1356

Mainline Christian Anti-Semitism, by David Meir-Levi

http://archive.frontpagemag.com/readArticle.aspx?ARTID=9303

Dining with the Devil, by Faith McDonnell

http://archive.frontpagemag.com/readArticle.aspx?ARTID=32434

"The leadership of the Presbyterian Church recently decided to encourage its governing body to promote divestment from companies that do business with Israel. Shortly thereafter, the Anglican church, the Lutheran church and the World Council of Churches (WCC, with 347 member denominations world-wide) followed suit with the explanation that divestment "(is) a new way to work for peace, by looking at ways to not participate economically in illegal activities related to the Israeli occupation." These churches are among those often referred to as 'mainline' churches.

"The most problematic issue of this new “mainline” posture is that it is clearly intended to support the Arab terror war against Israel; and to justify that support, church spokespersons make use of false information about the conflict.

"A review of factual information about the conflict and the nature of divestment reveals that the mainline churches have stood up in favor of a process that is illegal, irrational, immoral, biased against Israel and in favor of Israel’s enemies, and consciously oblivious to the transparent lies of divestment proponents. ..."

----

Israel’s Peculiar Position, by Eric Hoffer, May 26, 1968

"The Jews are a peculiar people: things permitted to other nations are forbidden to the Jews. Other nations drive out thousands, even millions of people, and there is no refugee problem. Russia did it, Poland and Czechoslovakia did it. Turkey threw out a million Greeks and Algeria a million Frenchman. Indonesia threw out heaven knows how many Chinese and no one says a word about refugees. But in the case of Israel displaced Arabs have become eternal refugees. Everyone insists that Israel must take back every single Arab.

"Arnold Toynbee calls the displacement of the Arabs an atrocity greater than any committed by the Nazis.

"Other nations when victorious on the battlefield dictate peace terms. But when Israel is victorious, it must sue for peace. Everyone expects the Jews to be the only real Christians in this world.

"Other nations — when they are defeated — survive and recover, but should Israel be defeated it would be destroyed. Had Nasser triumphed last June he would have wiped Israel off the map and no one would have lifted a finger to save the Jews. No commitment to the Jews by any government, including our own, is worth the paper it is written on.

"There is a cry of outrage all over the world when people die in Vietnam or when two Negroes are executed in Rhodesia. But when Hitler slaughtered Jews no one remonstrated with him. The Swedes, who are ready to break off diplomatic relations with America because of what we did in Vietnam, did not let out a peep when Hitler was slaughtering Jews. They sent Hitler choice iron ore and ball bearings, and serviced his troop trains to Norway.

"The Jews are alone in the world. If Israel survives it will be solely because of Jewish efforts. And Jewish resources. Yet at this moment Israel is our only reliable and unconditional ally. We can rely more on Israel than Israel can rely on us. And one has only to imagine what would have happened last summer had the Arabs and their Russian backers won the war to realize how vital the survival of Israel is to America and the West in general.

"I have a premonition that will not leave me; as it goes with Israel so will it go with all of us. Should Israel perish the holocaust will be upon us."

Thank you, Thomas_h :) ...

Daniel is such a liar (yeah, I'm talkin' to you "friend"), that it boggles the mind. Boy he sure isn't shy about twisting facts to suit his own pretzel-logic and hatred for Christians. And he has some nerve giving us his false anti-semitic presentation, when all the while he's been gearing up to set a trap so that he can hate on Christians, unabashed. He probably thought that if he could get the negative attention onto Christians--even if he has to lie to achieve that--then no one might notice HIS own hatred for Christians. Well, guess what, we did notice ..and how!!

Daniel, you are profoundly uneducated in this department ...

I almost feel guilty arguing with you since this isn't even a fair fight.

Look out, Thomas ...

Daniel has now loaded you down with numerous links and mass quantities of copy-paste material ...oh no, how will you survive?!

Christians sanctimoniously discussing that Jews "should not be punished"?

Christians sanctimoniously discussing that Jews "should be forgiven"?

With what Christians have done to the Jewish people for the past tow thousand years.?

And Christian people doing so while smugly and glibly collectively attacking an overwhelmed distressed Jewish person who is defending the Jewish people against libels?

Disgusting. But typical.

And you wrote:

"The Jews crucified Jesus THROUGH the Romans."

Yeah, just like the Judenrat committed genocide against the Jewish people in Europe approximately seventy years ago.

That is: They did not.

What makes you believe all of the things that you believe about what the narrative of the Christian religion says about what happened in Yehouda two thousand years ago?

What makes people believe in the "Palestinian narrative"?

You ask:

"What makes you believe all of the things that you believe about what the narrative of the Christian religion says about what happened in Yehouda two thousand years ago?"

The Bible is a book of history, so the New Testament is a historic document. Besides, there are numerous other books that document the life of Jesus--so these events weren't just recorded in the Bible and witnessed by Jesus' followers.

For example ...

And you love links, so here's one for you to check out:

http://www.pleaseconvinceme.com/index/pg79644

Scroll down to the section entitled "Hostile Non-Hostile Pagan Witnesses" for a list.

“And yet you viciously verbally attacked me for my having stated facts”.
A lie.
I didn’t attack you. In fact I congratulated you for finally producing a simple, coherent sentence as contrasted with your standard clumsy, overloaded and numbingly repetitive ranting. The fact that the sentence was perfectly idiotic was of secondary importance since most of what you write is plain stupid - there was nothing new about it. Therefore, I only referred to it with one word; “absurd”.

And I didn't even bring up the issue of Christianity.
A lie.

YOU started it and you continue spilling your anti-Christian hatred even to this very moment. A small surprise that you should side with another Christianity hater, the mohammedan zombie chimini.

I am not going to waste my time with you as it is a thankless drudgery to debate you. Face it man, you are pathetically boring and there is not one ounce of wit about you. Also it is 2:40am here (Copenhagen)

But before I quit I would like to tell you that quite early in my long life I realized that there are two types of liars. Liars who produce factual lies, I mean total fiction - like for example the Protocols of the Elders of Zion and there are liars who do their trade by juggling indisputable, but selective facts while hiding and ignoring or distorting uncomfortable facts.

You are not as good a juggler (in fact you are embarrassingly clumsy) as for example the boys from CAIR, or Moslem Brotherhood, or the Iranian prime minister, or your “president”, but you absolutely belong in their category. On the very bottom of it.

I am done with you. Good night.

Why is this important to you!?

Why is this abstract religious concept that involves believing that Jewish people participated in the Roman killing of a now-worshipped Jewish man in the then-occupied traumatized nation of the Jewish peopel two thousand years ago important to you!?

Look at what the situation of the Jewish people is! Now! At this time!

Stop it!

Why have you seized on this particular thing that I have referred to among all of the other things that I have written in comments on this blog post?!

Why are you attacking me about this issue and about Christian religious doctrine!? Christian religious doctrine has cause the continuous persecution and repeated mass-murder of a small ethnic group for for throughout the past two thousand years -- by the adherents of Christianity -- Europeans.

I don't care what the doctrine the Christian religion is! Just as long as Christians are not attacking the Jewish people! And the organizations of denominations of the Christian church are attacking the Jewish people!

But the main point -- and the main point that I was bringing up when I mentioned Christianity in my initial comment -- which I mentioned in response to the attacking of another person who brought up Christianity and the Christian church -- and which was not the main issue of the whole situation that I talked about in the series of my initial two comments -- is that there is much anti-Jewish bigotry in the West and that there is much anti-Jewish bigotry in the West almost entirely as a result of what has been the doctrine of Christianity for the past two thousand years. Look at what Christians have done to the Jewish people for throughout the past two thousand years! And the Western racist war against Israel and the Western collusion with the Islamic supremacist political movement is caused largely by Western anti-Jewish bigotry.

You've subverted what I meant to talk about. And you've called me a liar while doing so. And you've done so because some of what I wrote felt offensive to your ego -- your ego which is caught up in believing a religious abstract narrative which accuses the Jewish people of killing the deity of the religious ideology that you believe in.

The Jewish people are in trouble. The world is in trouble.

The Jewish people are being libeled and are under siege and you've attacked me and slandered me because you felt your ego offended.

Please stop it.

Daniel, you appear to be deep in denial. Your position is wholly flawed, and I think that I've established that. And it's my impression that you have been fed these lies about anti-semitic Christian doctrine perhaps all of your life, I don't know, but repeating them here in no way suddenly make them true.

You desperately need to rethink your very flawed position ...

Quite the contrary. As a Christian, I know my history for good and ill quite well, including that the 20th century along put more people to death over the proper interpretation of Marx than suffered over the wrong interpretation of the Scriptures during the 15 centuries between the conversion of Constantine and Napoleon's shutting down the Spanish Inquisition. It seems to me that the evolutionary materialists are the ones who are amnesiac about what their ideology launched.

Speaking of which, in Spain itself, the Inquisition actually killed about 4000 people tops in the four centuries of its operation. That's about a year's body count in the intramural struggles of the Spanish Left during the 1930's. Yet I was taught that the struggle against Franco was noble, and even had older people near and dear to me who wanted to join the Abraham Lincoln Brigade when young. BTW, as a Christian of the Reformed (Gereformeerde) persuasion with Sephardic Jewish ancestors, I do not harbor any special soft spots for the Roman Catholic Church in Spain and Portugal.

Further, as long as it allows me to note that most modern "atheisms" are in fact disguised idolatries, I prefer the First Amendment to an international blasphemy law.

Thomas wrote you:

"YOU started it and you continue spilling your anti-Christian hatred even to this very moment. A small surprise that you should side with another Christianity hater, the mohammedan zombie chimini."

Thomas is spot on, Daniel ...

You definitely started this exchange with your lies and Christian bashing. And when confronted, you responded with even more lies and Christian bashing, so you need to own that; and then you continue to lie by claiming that you aren't lying. Well, your above comments serve as a record that you are lying. They clearly demonstrate that you've continued in this destructive direction. Yeah and you also agreed with Chimini's remarks, so that was very telling, as well.

You started these lies, so I recommend that you end them now ...

"Stop it, Daniel? ...but you started the attacks with your lies."

What lies, Champ?

I wrote two things which, in one case, I realize may not be accurate and which I thought was accurate when I wrote it, and which is what I wrote about the Christian Bible having derogatory statements that, with malicious epithets, refer to the Jewish people, and which, in the other case is my having written something inaccurate about what I wrote in a previous comment -- which I subsequently realized was inaccurate and which I subsequently corrected.

And when I wrote those two things I was overwhelmed and distressed and I was being attacked and, as a result of that, my mind was muddled, and I didn't intended to write something inaccurate.

Those things that that I wrote which, in one case, was inaccurate, and which, in the other case, I think may be inaccurate, were not lies.

And the one of those things that I wrote which I think may be inaccurate which is what I wrote about there being explicit derogatory comments about the Jewish people in the Christian Bible is irrelevant to the main point that I was trying to point out in my writing that. The point that I was trying to point out in my writing that is that the racist anti-Jewish tenets and narrative of Christianity are the racist anti-Jewish tenets and narrative of Christianity.

And I don't care about the doctrine of Christianity in and of itself. I care about Western anti-Jewish bigotry and about the Western racist war against Israel.

And the part of what I initially wrote about was not solely nor mainly about Christianity and Western anti-Jewish racism. The main part of what I initially wrote was a listing of facts that dispel the false "Palestinian narrative", and was a listing of information about the leaders of Israel most influentially propagating the false "Palestinian narrative" as a result of Jewish Stockholm syndrome.

And, in my third comment, I listed information about the Western -- culturally Christian-European -- racist war against Israel in response to a vicious perverse attack against me by the commenter "thomas_h". Look at all of what I've written in my first three comments. That is what is important. That is what is relevant.

You keep saying that I told lies when I haven't told lies.

The things that I wrote which, in one case, was inaccurate, and which, in other case, I think may be inaccurate, I wrote after I was viciously perversely attacked by "thomas_h" and then, to a less vicious, but equally perverse, degree, by you, and when, as a result of that, I was extremely distressed and overwhelmed and when, as a result of that, my mind was muddled.

What you have written that is not accurate is huge and blameworthy. You denied and obfuscated essential crucial facts that need to be known and understood and communicated in order to make the situation better.

Daniel,

You wrote:

"What you have written that is not accurate is huge and blameworthy."

Likewise ...

You have zero room to talk--in this regard--given the smear campaign you've launched here against Christians and Christian doctrine. Jeez, do you own a mirror?

At this point I can only conclude that you are a lost cause ...

g'bye!

This what I was referring to when I referred to the word "perfidious". This text turns out to not be in the Christian Bible. But it's representative of the nature of Christianity in it's relationship to the Jewish people. This text is even an expression of "Christian Love" for the Jewish people.

Good Friday Prayer for the Jews -- Traditional version

Let us pray also for the faithless* Jews: that Almighty God may remove the veil from their hearts (2 Corinthians 3:13-16); so that they too may acknowledge Jesus Christ our Lord. Almighty and eternal God, who dost not exclude from thy mercy even Jewish faithlessness*: hear our prayers, which we offer for the blindness of that people; that acknowledging the light of thy Truth, which is Christ, they may be delivered from their darkness. Through the same our Lord Jesus Christ, who liveth and reigneth with thee in the unity of the Holy Spirit, God, for ever and ever. Amen.

Note: * "perfidious"/"perfidity" used in other versions of the Good Friday Prayer for the Jews

---

In an alternate universe: An equivalent expression of "Christian Love" for the Inuit:

"Let us pray also for the faithless/perfidious Inuit: that Almighty Silla remove the veil from their hearts; so that they too may acknowledge Nanook Christ our Lord. Almighty and eternal Silla, who dost not exclude from thy mercy even Inuit faithlessness/perfidity"

Correction:

The link that I listed as being my initial response to thomas_h's initial comment to me is not a link to my initial response to thomas_h's initial comment to me, but, rather, is a link to my earlier second comment. But that comment contains important information. Other important information. Information which I think is more important, and is the one of the two main sets of information that I intended to write in my initially writing comments on this post, and is essential information -- crucial information. The other main set of information that I intended to write in my initially writing comments on this post is the information that I wrote, in my first comment, about who are the Arab people who are now called "The Palestinians".

And I apologize for, in my previous comment to which this comment is a correction, linking to thomas_h's initial comment to me. I didn't mean to link to thomas_h's initial comment to me. I think that my linking to thomas_h's initial comment may have rehashed some unbeneficial things, and I didn't mean to rehash those things. I just had that text posted in the text of my comment as a link previously -- as part of text which I wrote previously and which I used to write my comment. I apologize for making that mistake. I often make those kinds of mistakes. I suffer from severe OCD which makes it difficult for me to write (compose writing), and to type. And, as a result of that, I often make mistakes in writing (composing writing), and in typing, when I write things on the internet.

In any case,

Best wishes,

Dan

Hi, Daniel,

On a few of your points regarding Christian doctrine, I guess we will just have to agree to disagree; and for now, leave it at that.

Also, I would like to wish you and yours the very best.

Take care!

Sincerely,
Champ :)

I wrote "...and not a few".
It shoulld be " ...and not so few".

Thank you, Champ. :)

Kind regards,

Dan

Thank you, Jan.

And I appreciate your support of Israel very much.

Kind regards,

Dan

thomas_h

I appreciate your kind wishes to me in your most recent reply to me. And I wish you well, too.

However, you wrote:

"And remember that nothing makes life better than striving to know and then follow the truth."

Indeed.

Truth, which you previously refused (1) (2) to read:

The Christian Church -- Currently

The World Council of Churches Broadcasts a Lethal Narrative, by Dexter Van Zile
http://www.camera.org/index.asp?x_context=7&x_issue=37&x_article=2127

"...The WCC's obsession with Jewish sin can be seen in its commentary about the Arab-Israeli conflict. The World Council of Churches speaks about the modern state of Israel in a manner similar to the way Christians spoke about Jews in Medieval Europe – as a uniquely sinful nation worthy of contempt from all right thinking Christians. ..."

Vergognosi gli attacchi a Israele, by Orianna Falaci
http://www.oerby.dk/sider/Oriana%20Fallaci.htm

"...I find it shameful that the Catholic Church should permit a bishop, one with lodgings in the Vatican no less, a saintly man who was found in Jerusalem with an arsenal of arms and explosives hidden in the secret compartments of his sacred Mercedes, to participate in that procession and plant himself in front of a microphone to thank in the name of God the suicide bombers who massacre the Jews in pizzerias and supermarkets. To call them 'martyrs who go to their deaths as to a party'. ..."

"...I find it shameful that the Roman Observer, the newspaper of the Pope--a Pope who not long ago left in the Wailing Wall a letter of apology for the Jews--accuses of extermination a people who were exterminated in the millions by Christians. By Europeans. I find it shameful that this newspaper denies to the survivors of that people (survivors who still have numbers tattooed on their arms) the right to react, to defend themselves, to not be exterminated again. I find it shameful that in the name of Jesus Christ (a Jew without whom they would all be unemployed), the priests of our parishes or Social Centres or whatever they are flirt with the assassins of those in Jerusalem who cannot go to eat a pizza or buy some eggs without being blown up. ..."

Israel as the Ram in the Thicket, by Dexter Van Zile
http://mfnklst.blogspot.com/2010/07/israel-as-ram-in-thicket.html
http://blog.camera.org/archives/2010/07/israel_as_the_ram_in_the_thick.html

"In the course of my work, I have become increasingly worried about the message offered by mainline Protestant churches (and some quarters of the Roman Catholic Church) about the Arab-Israeli conflict. Not only is the narrative offered by these institutions distorted, it has a negative impact on the safety of Jews throughout the world. ..."

Dining with the Devil, by Faith McDonnell
http://archive.frontpagemag.com/readArticle.aspx?ARTID=32434

"The leadership of the Presbyterian Church recently decided to encourage its governing body to promote divestment from companies that do business with Israel. Shortly thereafter, the Anglican church, the Lutheran church and the World Council of Churches (WCC, with 347 member denominations world-wide) followed suit with the explanation that divestment '(is) a new way to work for peace, by looking at ways to not participate economically in illegal activities related to the Israeli occupation.' These churches are among those often referred to as 'mainline' churches.

"The most problematic issue of this new 'mainline' posture is that it is clearly intended to support the Arab terror war against Israel; and to justify that support, church spokespersons make use of false information about the conflict.

"A review of factual information about the conflict and the nature of divestment reveals that the mainline churches have stood up in favor of a process that is illegal, irrational, immoral, biased against Israel and in favor of Israel’s enemies, and consciously oblivious to the transparent lies of divestment proponents. ..."

----

The Western Mass Media -- Currently

Anti-Semitism 2.0, by Mudar Zahran, 'Palestinian' Arab writer and academic from Jordan who currently resides in the U.K. as a political refugee
http://www.gatestoneinstitute.org/1979/anti-semitism-20

"The concept of the 'evil Jew' has made a well-disguised comeback: Criticizing Israel and Zionists is now deemed a legitimate option to cursing Jews and Judaism. Not only is it open, socially acceptable and legal, but it can actually bring prosperity and popularity. This new form of anti-Semitism 2.0 is well-covered-up, harder to trace and poses a much deeper danger to the modern way of life of the civilized world than the earlier crude form of it, as it slowly and gradually works on delegitimizing Jews to the point where it eventually becomes acceptable to target Jews, first verbally, then physically -- all done in a cosmopolitan style where the anti-Semites are well-groomed speakers and headline writers in jackets and ties; and not just Arab, but American and European, from 'sanitized' news coverage of the most bloodthirsty radicals, to charges against Israel in which facts are distorted, selectively omitted or simply untrue, as in former President Jimmy Carter's book on Israel. ..."

----

Western Academia -- Currently

Johann von Leers and Walt/Mearsheimer, by Clemens Heni, German academic scholar
http://clemensheni.wordpress.com/2011/01/21/johann-von-leers-and-waltmearsheimer/

"Most people think that the book 'Israel Lobby' by Stephen Walt and John J. Mearsheimer was published in 2007 -- at the same time in the US and in Germany, by the way. Well, the first edition of that book was rather published in 1940 -- by leading National Socialist anti-Semitic publicist Prof. Dr. Johann von Leers. Von Leers published 'Kräfte hinter Roosevelt' ('Forces behind Roosevelt') in Berlin in 1940. ..."

Antisemitism in America - Yale Kills YIISA, by Clemens Heni
http://clemensheni.wordpress.com/2011/06/08/yale-kills-yiisa/

"... 'Yale University last week killed the Yale Initiative for the Interdisciplinary Study of Antisemitism — the only program of its kind in the country, an academically stellar one-stop anti-Semitism research shop. Worse, it almost certainly did so because YIISA refused to ignore the most virulent, genocidal and common form of Jew-hatred today: Muslim anti-Semitism.'

"If one is analyzing the most dangerous form of contemporary antisemitism, you are censored, defamed, bullied, and finally thrown out from campus: highlighting Muslim and Arab antisemitism is taboo.

"In that sense, American academe is like its counterpart in Europe.

"Analyzing liberal and left hypocrisy, YIISA Associate Professor Neil Kressel, already showed in 1992 that progressives aim at antisemites as long as they are right-wing or Nazis. Antisemitism from the Third World or from minority groups, including the left, have never been a topic for mainstream scholars and journalists in the US. Contrary to fantasies about a powerful 'Israel-Lobby' in the US, antisemitism is very strong among the elites in America. The recent Yale decision is proof for this. ..."

----

Western Government -- Throughout the Past Ninety Years, and Currently

The Secret War Against the Jews, by John Loftus and Mark Aarons
http://books.google.com/books/about/Secret_war_against_the_Jews.html?id=8n_HVSpOWHcC

"The authors demonstrate that numerous Western countries, especially the United States and Great Britain, have conducted repeated and willful spying missions on Palestine* and later Israel over many decades. While on the surface these two countries and others profess to be ardent allies of Israel, they work, in fact, through their intelligence services to betray Israel's secrets to the Arabs. Their motive: oil and multinational profits, which must be attained at any price through international covert policies. To understand the duplicitous nature of the West's diplomatic relations with Israel, the authors contend that one must understand the history that begins after the end of World War I with the sordid Mideast exploits of a British diplomat, Jack Philby. They then proceed into a detailed discussion of the boardrooms of American and English bankers and lawyers who had strong connections with Nazi leaders and Arab oil tycoons in the 1930s prior to the outbreak of World War II. Particularly intriguing is the information that the writers present to suggest an all-too-cozy financial relationship that existed between the Allied intelligence community and German banks even during the war."

America's Nazi Secret: An Insider's History, by John Loftus
http://www.amazon.com/Americas-Nazi-Secret-Insiders-History/dp/1936296047

"Fully revised and expanded, this stirring account reveals how the U.S. government permitted the illegal entry of Nazis into North America in the years following World War II. This extraordinary investigation exposes the secret section of the State Department that began, starting in 1948 and unbeknownst to Congress and the public until recently, to hire members of the puppet wartime government of Byelorussia—a region of the Soviet Union occupied by Nazi Germany. A former Justice Department investigator uncovered this stunning story in the files of several government agencies, and it is now available with a chapter previously banned from release by authorities and a foreword and afterword with recently declassified materials."

John Loftus was a U.S. Justice Department federal prosecutor who had above Top Secret security clearance in the U.S. government.

Is the US an ally of Israel? - A chronological look at the evidence, by Francisco Gil-White
http://www.hirhome.com/israel/hirally.htm

----

Background

1st-2nd c. CE: The European people the Romans commit genocidal mass-murder against the Jewish people and annihilate the country of the Jewish people (genocide which the Romans call "The First Jewish War" and "The Second Jewish War")

The Romans adopt the religion Christianity

3rd c. CE: Roman Christian "Saint" Ambrose issues a call to burn all synagogues; Christians burn many synagogues
5th c. CE: Christians massacre the Jewish people in Alexandria
11th c. CE: The Christian Crusaders massacre Jewish communities in the Rhineland
12th c. CE: The Christian Crusaders again massacre Jewish communities in the Rhineland
12th c. CE: Christian Europeans accuse the Jewish people of killing Christian European children and using their blood to make the unleavened bread (matza) that is made and eaten as part of the celebrating of the Jewish holiday Passover (Pesah)
13th c. CE: The English expel the Jewish people from England
13th c. CE: The Christian Fourth Lateran Council 1215 creates several anti-Jewish laws, e.g. the wearing of the yellow role
13th c. CE: Forced conversions of Jews to Christianity all over Europe
14th c. CE: Christian European blames the Jewish people for the plague ('Black Death'). Christian Europeans mass-murder 300 European Jewish communities -- Jewish people massacred in Seville -- Christian anti-Jewish pogroms all over Iberia
15th c. CE: The Spanish Christian Inquisition -- many Jewish people are murdered -- more than 150,000 Jewish peopel are expelled from Spain
16th c. CE: Protestant Christian anti-Judaism: Martin Luther, in 1543, writes "The Jews and their lies" -- "Jews do not work (they prefer leisure time)" -- suggesting to set synagogues on fire, etc.
16th c. CE: The Christian Inquisition becomes a pan-European phenomena
17th c. CE: The Christian Inquisition continues
18th c. CE: The Russian Czars begin a process of slow genocide against their Jewish subjects
19th c. CE: The rise of "modern" anti-Semitism 1) race theories are developed 2) term "anti-Semitism": first popularly used by German "Racialist" anti-Jewish racist Wilhelm Marr 1879 3) Conspiracy theories; Dreyfus-affair in France 1894-1906; The most influential European racist anti-Jewish conspiracy theory: The European racist hate-inciting propaganda fictional anti-Jewish book "The Protocols of the Elders of Zion", first edition in Russia in 1905 (today reprinted in many Muslim countries; today, in Muslim countries, the second best selling book after the Qur'an)
19th-20th c. CE: Europeans commit huge pogroms (pillage and murder) against Jewish people in Eastern Europe
20th c. CE: The hugely popular Nazi regime of Germany and thousands of the millions of Christian European supporters of the Nazi regime of Germany mass-murder approximately six million Jewish people in Europe -- almost all of the Jewish people in Europe.

Second, as regards the subject of antisemitism.

The two definitive - painful, searingly honest - 'classic' studies of 'christian' antisemitism were written by Christians - Malcolm Hay's 'The Foot of Pride' and James Parkes' 'The Conflict of the Church and the Synagogue'. The erudite James Parkes, a staunch Zionist, remained a devout worshipping Christian - indeed, he was an Anglican priest - to the day of his death.

Those here who can read French are encouraged to read Jacques Ellul, 'Un Chretien Pour Israel' (in particular, chapter one, 'de Foi' (of Faith), part 1 'Gospels and Epistles', part 2 'Theology' and part 3, 'Antisemitism and Anti-Zionism') and chapter 4, 'Jerusalem'; and 'Ce Dieu Injuste? - Theologie Chretienne pour le Peuple d'Israel'.

Jacques Ellul was a convinced Christian - passionately confessing Yeshua of Nazareth as the Son of the Living God, and believing firmly in his Resurrection and promised return), Jacques Ellul was *also* during WWII one of the Righteous, helping Jews in occupied France escape from the Nazis. In Un Chretien Pour Israel and in 'Ce Dieu Injuste?' Ellul carefully analyses various key passages of Christian scripture, showing that those texts do not in fact support - and should never have been made to support - traditional antisemitic assertions and practices.

The 'Jewishness' of the Gospels and the Epistles is, I think, largely invisible to the average Gentile... I have a friend who teaches comparative religion in an Australian university. Once, she had a class of students who were given the following assignment: go through the four Gospels and identify what is Jewish in them, and what is *non-Jewish*. One of her students was Jewish; a girl brought up in an observant - I think even an Orthodox - family. She had never read the actual Gospels before. Dutifully, she embarked upon her assignment. And some time before the due date, she came to my friend, and said: "I don't understand the assignment. There is nothing here that is *not* Jewish". That is: she honestly could not find anything in those four books that jumped out at her as being obviously of *Gentile* origin.

Tom Cahill's useful little book 'The Gifts of the Jews' reveals just how much 'the west' or 'christendom' owes to the House of Israel, that is, to the people now commonly called 'the Jews'. Christianity inherited and perpetuated a set of assumptions about God, man, ethics, time, and the world that - when seen in the context of the other belief systems, yes, even those of Greece and Rome, or of Egypt, or Babylon, or any others one might care to name - reveal themselves as downright *revolutionary*. The 'Christian revolution' that David Bentley Hart admirably describes, is easily classifiable as a continuation of what one might dub the 'Sinai revolution'.

And both Chimini and Daniel - like all of us - need to read Emmet Scott's 'Mohammed and Charlemagne Revisited', because judging from some of the reviews I have seen, this book shows just how much damage not only physical but (worse) spiritual, social and intellectual, was wreaked upon 'Christendom' (whether Eastern or Western) by ...Islam.

http://www.newenglishreview.org/blog_direct_link.cfm/blog_id/41348
Saturday, 31 March 2012
Mohammed & Charlemagne Revisited: The Epilogue

by Emmet Scott (April 2012)

http://www.newenglishreview.org/blog_direct_link.cfm/blog_id/42085
Friday, 18 May 2012
How Islam Killed Greco-Roman Civilization

http://www.newenglishreview.org/blog_direct_link.cfm/blog_id/43460
Tuesday, 14 August 2012
The Baron Reviews Mohammed and Charlemagne Revisited

We are the heirs of what could well be called, to borrow from V S Naipaul the title of his book about India (India as damaged by centuries of attack by Islam), a 'wounded civilisation'. Much of the worst of what our forebears have done and our contemporaries are doing, can be seen as a result of our culpable willingness to 'learn' from, and imitate, things that are proper to Islam, but which are *not* proper for us...There was no *necessity* for western and eastern Christians (individuals, groups, whole societies) to copy aspects of Islam - they would have been better off if they had NOT - but, alas, they did...The miracle is that though many were seduced, not all were; that some resisted the temptation.