Vatican spokesman calls for end to offenses against Islam, does not condemn jihad murders; bishop in Libya calls for blasphemy laws in the West

Sometimes it seems as if the world has lost its collective moral compass. Lombardi's statement keeps going on about "respect" -- that is, the respect that we all must have for Islam. But about the lack of respect that the Muslim murderers showed to Ambassador Stevens and the others he says nothing.

These prelates are playing a dangerous game. Perhaps they are unaware of the history of dhimmitude, and the reality that the dhimmi laws are still part of Sharia. Perhaps they think life for Christians in the Middle East will go better if they toe the Islamic supremacist line. But they will eventually discover that the Qur'anic mandate to make war against and subjugate unbelievers extends even to those who readily give Islamic supremacists whatever they want.

It is also doubtful that they realize that the imposition of blasphemy laws upon the West would allow the Islamic jihad an unfettered hand to expand its activities in Western countries, and no one would be allowed to speak out in opposition or resistance.

Nor do they realize that calling for censorship in the wake of violence and murder will only get them more violence and murder -- because the murderers see that their tactics work.

"Vatican spokesman, responding to Libyan violence, decries provocations against Islam," from CWN, September 12:

Responding to mob violence against US embassies in Libya and Egypt, which led to the deaths of four American diplomats, the director of the Vatican press office released a statement condemning “provocations against the sensibilities of Muslim believers.”

The statement by Father Federico Lombardi did not include a condemnation of the killings in Benghazi, Libya, or the burning of American flags in Cairo. Instead he focused on offenses against Islam. The Muslim mobs were reportedly outraged by reports of a film, produced by an obscure American, that criticized Islam.

With Pope Benedict XVI preparing to travel to the Middle East this weekend amid mounting tensions in the region, the papal spokesman stressed that the Pope would bring a “message of dialogue and respect for all believers of different religions.” The statement from Father Lombardi, in its entirety, read:

Profound respect for the beliefs, texts, outstanding figures and symbols of the various religions is an essential precondition for the peaceful coexistence of peoples. The serious consequences of unjustified offence and provocations against the sensibilities of Muslim believers are once again evident in these days, as we see the reactions they arouse, sometimes with tragic results, which in their turn nourish tension and hatred, unleashing unacceptable violence.

The message of dialogue and respect for all believers of different religions, which the Holy Father is preparing to carry with him on his forthcoming trip to Lebanon, indicate the path that everyone should follow in order to construct shared and peaceful coexistence among religions and peoples.

From Libya, Bishop Giovanni Martinelli, the apostolic vicar of Tripoli, told Vatican Insider that Western countries should have the “courage” to ban “all blasphemous projects” and establish “a policy that is respectful of religion.”

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That's the prudential judgment of (a spokesman of) the Holy See and is not binding on the consciences of you or me.

What on earth did you expect him to say? The Vatican cannot protect Christians in the ME, it can only avoid antagonizing Muslims. Do you expect the Pope --from the safety of Rome-- to sacrifice the lives of people in Tripoli and Cairo for the sake of boldly defending principles of free speech recognized in neither place? Do you expect the bishop of Tripoli to fall on his sword when Obama won't even draw one?

Again, tactics correct, strategy wrong.

You have absolutley right "...they cannot refute us (the Islam critics)" so they want us to shut down

"...bishop in Libya calls for blasphemy laws (i.e. end of freedom of speech) in the West"

Q. 5:73 Allah hates Trinitarian (i.e. Christians) & free speech

http://schnellmann.org/hr-resolution-16-18-criminalisation-of-criticism-of-islam.html

Pamela Geller "Why can't we say negative things about Islam?

…free speech protects ALL speech, Michael, ALL SPEECH. Not just the ideas what we like. Because that’s easy. I mean the ideas that we don’t like … who decides, what’s good & what’s forbidden? The CIAR? The government? The OIC? This is a very dangerous territory.

…And as long as my ideas are heard, I believe the truth will out. The bottomline is: THERE IS A WAR ON THE TRUTH”


One thing the Church is upset about is the Reformation and the Enlightenment that was spawned on the basis of the doing away with theocratic laws.

There is it seems a kind of a residual snub aspect still present.

In light of religious law - there is possibly a longing for the return of those days!

You can't only protect Islam!!

But this statement issued by the Church doesn't seem anything to do with that - it seems almost a Communist read out.

And the Church has been good at bringing awareness to the Christian plight in that region.

::

And where are all the Christians in Libya and across North Africa and the Middle East?

They gave into the Islamic demands no doubt for the jizya and other subjugating measures - they endured restriction on marriage which forced them to convert to Islam and still today in Egypt Christian children [and even adult ones] who's fathers converted to Islam are forced to become Muslims - by the courts - where they are sentenced to time in prison [for not practising their Islamic faith] - reducing the Christian numbers further as Muslims rejoice at their ever expanding flock. Nevermind the relaxed manner in which Muslim nations allow non-Muslims girls - in Egypt and in Pakistan to be abducted an forcibly converted to Islam - in these sham marriages. Arresting the girls parents for trying to retrieve them and backing the kidnappers - at all levels - from the local police to the nation's courts.

That is what has happened to them - and while they hang on in their beleaguered numbers - as if they caught the Islamic flu virus - delusional - some hope that this compromise which calls for adherence to Islamic laws - will somehow improve their conditions.

::

In truth what happened in the west needs to happen in the Islamic world - they need a reformation - they need an enlightenment. They need to reduce the power of the clerics and the religious authorities.

But the fear of violence Muslims live under makes change difficult - let alone the mere suggestion of it.

::

In Europe one Catholic Priest remarked - that the burqa should not be banned - or such things Muslims want - that we should allow "Muslim Rights" - because otherwise we may face attack.

If we say we are living in fear of Islamic attack - they can demand anything from us!!

This doesn't stop with the blasphemy laws.

"One thing the Church is upset about is the Reformation and the Enlightenment that was spawned on the basis of the doing away with theocratic laws...There is it seems a kind of a residual snub aspect still present."

It may be true, but the Church has been fully committed to democracy in the secular arena for decades now (not in its own governance, of course), so this is not as strong as we may think. There are two other factors which are likely stronger, which I offer as explanations, certainly not as excuses.

========================================

One factor is the assaults made by atheists on the Church in recent decades. These (non-violent) assaults have unnerved many. And guess what? Whenever Christians publicly protested against things like the "Piss Christ" art exhibit they found Muslims demonstrating peacefully at their side. There is even a book about this apparent affinity called "Ecumenical Jihad" by Peter Kreeft, a Boston College professor who has been opposed in debate by Robert Spencer.

Most such Christians are totally unaware of the threat of stealth jihad, and fail to see that Western pluralism cannot overcome the negative view of Christianity held by most Muslims.

========================================

The second factor is a rather blase view of martyrdom. We see this over and over as Church leaders beg the Christians who live in Muslim-dominated lands to stay there and not emigrate to the West. Why shouldn't people who want safety for their children leave? Church leaders understand this desire, yet they ask people to put themselves at risk by staying so that 'Christianity will remain in the lands of its birth' and to 'be a witness to Muslims'. Laudable goals yes, but at what expense? That expense is never fully and publicly acknowledged.

http://www.bic.org/statements/eliminating-religious-intolerance-0

Eliminating Religious Intolerance
Statement to the forty-fourth session of the United Nations Commission on Human Rights
17 February 1988
Geneva

.....
In the Baha'i­ view, a crucial means for implementing the 1981 Declaration is the development of tolerance among individuals and the abolition of religious exclusivity and fanaticism. Dr. Ribeiro has rightly pointed out that intransigent attitudes, the claim of religious believers to an absolute and exclusive hold on truth, and the denial of the right of everyone to be different are root causes of religious discrimination.

Indeed, human beings have a tendency to view their own beliefs as right, and all others as wrong. They have, we suggest, erroneously interpreted the tenets of their own faiths as advocating such exclusivity, and sometimes as giving them the right to persecute others under the banner of upholding their version of truth. The Baha'i­ writings admonish humankind to abandon such intolerant attitudes and replace them with mutual respect and forbearance.

How can religious dogmatism be banished from human minds and hearts? In the first place, we believe that all the world's major religions have proceeded from the same Source, worshipped alike by Baha'i­, Buddhist, Christian, Hindu, Jew and Moslem, as well as members of other religions. The core teachings of every religion -- for example, the teaching to love one's neighbor - are essentially the same, and we submit that they reflect one universal truth.

Understanding of this point will enable each individual, whatever his or her religion, to view other religions with due respect. This perspective fosters tolerance among people of various beliefs, despite the differences that may exist in their outward religious practices. For this reason, we welcome Dr. Ribeiro's suggestion that interreligious dialogue should be fostered and that such discussions should aim at "emphasizing the similarities among various religions and beliefs rather than their differences."

==============================


And people wonder why I keep bringing up the baha'i

It is quite strange to learn this from Vatican. The ideal would have been to condemn both sides and exhort peace in the region. Of course,the entire world is aware of the culture of Islam and its war on non-muslims.

I hope the forthcoming pastoral visit of Pope Benedict XVI starting from tomorrow, presents a balanced view, exhorting both sides of the group to peace. The Christians are the worst sufferers over there, especially the Coptic Christians. Let's see what the Pope is going to speak in his visit, significantly in the wake of attack on US embassies, the confused statement from the Vatican spokesperson and the colossal massacre of Christians in the region by the Islamic culture.


One of the problems with the idea of "we must show respect" is that it is a moving target definition. So, no matter how much is shown, it can be defined as "not enough".*

And, who decides on the definition - how would that be decided?

If they cannot decide (between the various factions of Islam) why on earth would our government think they could come to a decision which would please people who practice Islam?

*I call it "like swimming in a riptide" because you don't realize how far down the coast you have gone because you keep thinking "just a little more and everything will be ok" (usually in reference to being in an abusive personal relationship). It is only when you start comparing yourself to various landmarks that you realize how far you really have traveled.

Why say anything? Why not maintain a dignified silence in this instance?

Mr. Barile says:

"That's the prudential judgment of (a spokesman of) the Holy See and is not binding on the consciences of you or me."
___

That's right, John. I swear, however, that if we keep getting these types of dhimmified statements from the Vatican, I'm going to go back to being an Atheist.

Hope all is well with you and yours.


How insane it is that 6'000'000'000 non-muslims on Earth
can now be ordered to obey the Shariah Blasphemy laws as to not set-off the 1'000'000'000 potential Jihadists to murder and riot just from the slightest offense to islam or their misogynistic homophobic prophet muhammad.

The Quranic motto in the MADrassa's is

" Terrorism works , so we don't have to"

This reminds me of something "Uncle Joe" Stalin said during WWII. During a war council, one of his advisers brought up a possible negative reaction from the Pope. To which Stalin said:

"Oh, the Pope? How many divisions does he have?"

Or, as we say in the Western reaches, "Big hat, no cattle..."

I think the Holy See is pining for a return to the days when they could freely hang, burn or draw & quarter the heretics amongst them. Poor babies. Their solution quite predictably is to add more draconian laws to inhibit free speech and inquiry. Their god (much like the one in Islam) is too impotent to defend himself, so humans naturally must step in for the old, decrepit Geezer Up-On-High.

Or, as we say in the Western reaches, "Big hat, no cattle..."

So well said, George.....

The Catholic church can go straight to hell.

A million Americans should burn a page from a million korans everyday.

They can run their countries however they want. Islam is not a religion but a totalitarian government system with a religious arm. PUll our people out of Islamic countries, end all aid and let the muslims protest to their heart's content.

Freedom of speech forever, and they can shove it.

Islam has complete and eternal contempt for ALL religions other than Islam.

Until ALL other religions RE-understand this simple fact, the West AND East are doomed.

The Legacy of Jihad by Andrew G. Bostom MD
The Legacy of Islamic Antisemitism by Andrew G. Bostom

The Professors: The 101 Most Dangerous Academics in America by David Horowitz
Ivory Toweres On Sand: The Falure of Middle Eastern Studies in America by Martin Kramer

The Haj: The Birth of Israel and the Sham that is the Palestinian “Right of Return” by Leon Uris

Slavery, Terrorism and Islam: The Historical Roots and Contemporary Threat by Peter hammond

The Vatican News Service reports this:
DECLARATION CONCERNING ATTACK AGAINST AMERICAN CONSULATE
Vatican City, 13 September 2012 (VIS) - Given below is the text of a declaration made by Holy See Press Office Director Fr. Federico Lombardi S.J., concerning the recent attack against the United States consulate in the Libyan city of Benghazi.
"The very serious attack organised against the United States diplomatic mission in Libya, which led to the death of the ambassador and of other functionaries, calls for the firmest possible condemnation on the part of the Holy See. Nothing, in fact, can justify the activity of terrorist organisations and homicidal violence. Along with our sadness, mourning and prayers for the victims, we again express the hope that, despite this latest tragedy, the international community may discover the most favourable ways to continue its commitment in favour of peace in Libya and the entire Middle East".

i cannot respect the Allah god (unknowable; as imagined), which, through it's spokesman Muhammad (lately contrived), to bring in SHARIA (not inspired by the God of All Living), to enslave tongues to utter unwholesom praises and speak loathsome things with rage ... rage that comes from not being right in spirit

That's all we need...another confused old man running about the world with naive notions in his head. Why doesn't he stay home and solve his own internal problems.

This is the sort of response that is typical of the dhimmis in the vatican who can only condemn Israel for being in existence. The vatican is the oldest anti-semitic organization in the world and even precedes islam in its genocidal Jew-hatred. The comment from the vatican spokesman reveals absolutely no understanding of democracy and the right of freedom of expression. It should be ignored. islam is self-deprecating anyway.

So we are ignoring the Vatican statement condemning the attacks? And then spouting more pointless and wrong anti-Catholic sentiment? Apparently, there is a resurrected group of Know-Nothings or Klansmen here. Is the point here "jihad watching," or something else?

Chris

this website is not about hating on Catholics, even if there are some pretty strange comments above that smacked of some of the usual old anti-Catholic canards that some folks obviously still adhere to.

I would point out both to you, and to some who have posted above, that Mr Spencer himself is a devout, church-going, praying, practising Greek Melkite Catholic; that is, someone from that part of the eastern church that is in communion with the Roman church.

One of his earliest books on Islam, written in collaboration with Daniel Ali who converted from Islam to Catholic Christianity in 1998, was called 'Inside Islam: A Guide For Catholics'.

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