What the campaigns to criminalize "Islamophobia" and "hate speech" are really all about

Also, "whom" not "who". Otherwise, great thought.

I agree about "whom", though French doesn't have that distinction; it would be qui in both phrases.

I also agree that the precise source should be pinned down -- particularly for such a trenchantly important quote as this, which acquires and delivers added verve and authority by emanating from such an august historical personage. The same quote wouldn't have quite the same punch if it was attributed to "Joe the Plumber" -- or even to Robert Spencer (and even worse, if, say, Goebbels had said it). The Internet has reinforced way too much casualness and sloppiness with regard to source attribution. Here, where it counts, we should pin down the precise work by Voltaire where it may be found, along with a specific edition in French, with precise (and need it be added? accurate) page numbers ascertainable online.

Alas, if I had a nickel for every "should" that never became realized on the Net, I'd be as rich as Bill Gates's Honduran gardener.

Champ,

It could also be said about the God of Christianity that a person who is truly good, powerful and in charge doesn't need his followers to hunt down and punish those who "insult" Him. There's an old proverb that a truly just and powerful king doesn't need to prove himself by punishing verbal dissent; it's only the king insecure about his power who does that -- and a king insecure about his power is usually that way because, like Allah, he hasn't rightfully earned it.

So true, Buraq ...

And Jolene is angry because I've exposed her for what she truly is: a mohammedan troll, which is why she responded in such a vile manner. And she's been commenting off 'n on for quite some time on Jihad Watch, and it's always the same ole nasty garbage coming from her.

Hi, LemonLime ...

You wrote:

"It could also be said about the God of Christianity that a person who is truly good, powerful and in charge doesn't need his followers to hunt down and punish those who "insult" Him. There's an old proverb that a truly just and powerful king doesn't need to prove himself by punishing verbal dissent; it's only the king insecure about his power who does that -- and a king insecure about his power is usually that way because, like Allah, he hasn't rightfully earned it."

Very true, LemonLime! ...and the Bible supports your comment, as well ...

~~~~~~~~~

Mohammed's disciples killed for the faith; Christ's disciples were killed for their faith (Acts 12:2; 2 Timothy 4:7).

Mohammed promoted persecution against the "infidels"; Christ forgave and converted the chief persecutor (1 Timothy 1:13-15).

Mohammed was the taker of life; Christ was the giver of life (John 10:27-28).

Mohammed and his fellow warriors murdered thousands; Christ murdered none but saved many (compare John 12:48).

Mohammed's method was COMPULSION; Christ's aim was voluntary CONVERSION (Acts 3:19).

Mohammed practiced FORCE; Christ preached FAITH (John 6:29, 35).

Mohammed was a WARRIOR; Christ is a DELIVERER (Col. 1:13; 1 Thessalonians 1:10).

Mohammed conquered his enemies with the sword; Christ conquered his enemies with another kind of sword, the sword of the Spirit which is the Word of God (Hebrews 4:12; Acts 2:37).

Mohammed said to the masses, "Convert or die!"; Christ said, "Believe and live!" (John 6:47; 11:25-26).

Mohammed was swift to shed blood (Romans 3:15-17); Christ shed His own blood for the salvation of many (Ephesians 1:7).

Mohammed preached "Death to the infidels!"; Christ prayed "Father, forgive them, for they know not what they do" (Luke 23:34).

Mohammed declared a holy war (Jihad) against infidels; Christ achieved a holy victory on Calvary's cross (Colossians 2:14-15) and His followers share in that victory (John 16:33).

Mohammed constrained people by conquest; Christ constrained people by love (2 Corinthians 5:14).

~~~~~~~~~~~

And more comparisons between Jesus and Mohammad can be found here: http://www.666soon.com/Jesus%20Vs%20Muhammad.htm

ps ...

I especially like this point from the list:

>>Mohammed and his fellow warriors murdered thousands; Christ murdered none but saved many (compare John 12:48).

Unfortunately, there will never be a troll shortage.

Nicely done, Champ. :)

Islam: where freedom ends and slavery begins.

You know this or should know it.

She is too stupid to know and too arrogant to know she should know. An attention seeking swollen-headed village idiot.

"I think I am safe in saying ALL OF US are "stalking" you because we remember your previous muslim-fascist lunatic fringe posts."

Exactly, Istanbul_Chick! ...and thank you!

And thank you, Wellington and PGuud! ...all you guys rock!

Whom is it from? It's really a great quote.

It's possible, LL, that there are two Jolenes, but I doubt it.

The syntax of the anti-jihad and pro-islam posts are strikingly similar.

I recall that the "other Jolene" posted some tentatively anti-jihad (think recent poster chowching: islam is bad buuuuttt....)posts some time ago. In the same thread she launched into the same manner of personal attacks on someone else. I believe it was Courragesw.

"The other Jolene" in that thread also went through the same typical bully stance of claiming victimhood after getting her arse handed to her by everyone.

There is a "Jolene" who posts on atlasshrugs who does the same passive-aggressive flip-flopping song and dance routine as well.

I'll stick with the belief that there is one Jolene who is a typical schizophrenic muslim/apologist.

Hi, LemonLime ...

You asked:

"Are there two 'Jolene's?"

There might be; but like Istanbul_Chick, I don't think so either ...

And I found another one of her snide comments from January, as well, here:

http://www.jihadwatch.org/2012/01/our-teachers-gave-us-a-much-edited-version-of-the-holocaust-putting-the-entire-blame-on-the-jews.html

Jolene wrote the first comment on that thread, and if you click on her moniker, you can see that it's the same person with the same design picture. In that first comment she tries to undermine "Liberated" by questioning whether or not she's for real.

Over the years I have read nothing but put down's from Jolene towards Robert and those he supports, and she also puts down other posters in the anti-jihad movement. Boy, if she's writing supportive comments, then that's news to me!

Also, note what she wrote on THIS thread ...and remember, this is the SAME Jolene that wrote that other comment undermining "Liberated" back in January. She wrote:

~~~~~~~~~~

#11 comment:

>Truth from JihadWatch

Great quote, Patricia. And those who will tolerate no criticism aren't always brown and of a strange religion.

Sometimes they are brite-white J. Edgar Hoover homeboys who have had free reign, with much unsolved bloodshed, for too long.

~~~~~~~~~~

The "#11" is her eleventh comment (if you count to eleven, then that's her comment). Not sure what THAT is suppose to mean, but it must have some abstract meaning for her. Anyway, pay close attention to her next sentence ...

">Truth from Jihad Watch"

Okay normally one would take this as a compliment, but coming from Jolene--who enjoys putting Robert down--and given the remainder of her comment, then this is NOT a compliment; this is Jolene being snide and MOCKING Robert and Jihad Watch! And she thinks she's being clever, but I caught it right away -- which is why I posted her remark about Robert and Pamela being "fear-mongering town criers", because I know her to be against Robert. And we're talking about THIS Jolene, not some other (maybe) Jolene from the past; but the one, the only, Jolene!

And you have to connect the dots to figure out her motives more clearly because she plays these clever little verbal games. But if you know and understand the history of her comments, then the dots are easier to connect. Lastly, she writes this little gem:

"And those who will tolerate no criticism aren't always brown and of a strange religion.

Sometimes they are brite-white J. Edgar Hoover homeboys who have had free reign, with much unsolved bloodshed, for too long."

Can you say sarcasm?!! ...whoa her comment is loaded down with sarcasm and it's directed at Robert and Jihad Watch! C'mon it's so obvious! At least that's what I see, and it chaps my hide when she does that. I'm sick of it. It should chap all our hides. And then she has the nerve to lie and claim that she's changed her mind about Robert. What a crock! The very comment she offered today clearly mocks Robert--again.

ps ...

And I'm not talking about constructive criticism or challenging questions directed at Robert and Jihad Watch ...no, that isn't what she does. I'm talking about hateful comments and mind games; the exact same thing that Istanbul_Chick pointed out: that Jolene is passive-aggressive and at times sends mixed messages. And stating that Robert and Pamela are "fear-mongering town criers" goes beyond the pale. I'm sure you would agree. Take care.

I wholly agree with you, Istanbul_Chick ...your entire comment is so spot on! I've observed the same thing, as well. Take care :)

Admirable summary, Kepha. My compliments.

Champ,

Yes, I noticed that one too. About the prose of Shakila, the Muslima who had decided to apostasize and wrote about her experiences and thoughts & feelings about that in pieces featured on JW, Jolene made a snarky comment:

indoctrinating...mustered...fortitude...pernicious

I find myself wondering whether dumbing down the vocabulary a peg or two would help believability.

Then a JW commenter "greenpen" responded:

Don't you think your comment might be seen as a tad pedantic? It seems obvious to me that liberated is a highly literate individual. It's what she says that counts, not what words she may choose to use, surely?

And Jolene's snarky retort:

pedantic...

I had to look that up, too.

What made these comments disingenuously snide was that many of Jolene's other posts clearly show her to be intelligent enough to know all these words. So why doesn't she just come out and say what she's really thinking and present a reasoned argument defending it? Instead, she remained snippy and kept her accusation against Shakila (and Spencer, who vetted her) veiled.

Champ,

The "#11" is her eleventh comment (if you count to eleven, then that's her comment). Not sure what THAT is suppose to mean, but it must have some abstract meaning for her. Anyway, pay close attention to her next sentence ...

What's strange is that Jolene didn't use that numbering system in any other previous comments I've seen. That numbering system, by the way, was quite prevalent on Little Green Footballs (that site, as you know, that some time ago a grotesque 180 away from the Counter-Jihad to stepping on the gas of its green monster truck headed straight for the Counter-Jihad hell bent on vehicular homicide); for what that's worth.

P.S.: I should add, for readers who may not know, that the "green monster truck" of the LGF site to which I alluded has long since petered out, out of gas on the side of the road, rendered irrelevant to anything except its own asylum patients.

"Yes, I've enjoyed hospitality and friendly treatment at Muslim hands..."

I don't doubt that many Nazis would show hospitality and friendly treatment to a person who doesn't insist on "blaspheming" their Fuhrer. Hospitality and friendly treatment by Muslims is not only utterly irrelevant, it is dangerously misleading to mention in the way Kepha does.

"...and would not urge a full-fledged inter-civilizational war."

Our only response, given our reasonable suspicions and profound misgivings about the deadly danger of Muslims --whether or not they show "hospitality" and "friendly treatment", is not automatically and inexorably "full-fledged inter-civilizational war." It could be rounding them up and deporting them (which of course may entail a certain scale of violence depending upon the degree of their resistance; but an overwhelmingly stronger and more socially and psychologically mature and patient people can conduct such a project reasonably ensuring a minimum of violence and not any excesses -- for we are heirs not to Hitler, Mussolini and Stalin, but to those who valiantly gave their lives to fight against them and then went on to progress socially and liberally as never before (cf. civil rights, women's increased rights, etc.).

"But there are dimensions to Islamic doctrine and law which are fiercely supremacist and violent, and go far in explaining why Islam's civilizational borders are extremely bloody."

It's not some "dimensions" to Islamic doctrine and law which are the deadly, unjust and evil problem besetting millions of innocent Buddhists, HIndus, Christians, Jews, pagans, and various agnostics and atheists aruond the world -- it's much more accurately to say, it is Muslims following Islam -- following it doctrinally, legally, culturally, socially, psycho9logically -- following it every way that humans can when they have internalized the Double Totalitarianism of the evil, injustice and hatred with which all of Islam, not just "dimensions" of its "doctrine and law" are replete and saturated and seething.

So no, Wellington, I don't find Kepha's summary "admirable". Just look a couple of stories up from where we sit now:

"Bangladesh: Muslims torch Buddhist temples & homes in rage over photo of burned Qur'an"

Yet again, another example of the evil insanity and sociopathic monstrosity of not "dimensions of Islam" but of Muslims -- after literally hundreds of thousands

Great comments, LemonLime. Perhaps she/he/it (duh_swami could be right, lol!) is an ole LGF lounge lizard given the #11 clue? ..so good catch; and I do recall the dramatic brouhaha over Charles Johnson a couple of years back. At any rate, Jolene's comments are very cloak 'n dagger.

I have to agree with you on your assessment of Kepha's post.

I too was treated with "hospitality" and "kindness." But looking past the window dressing I could see that it was all a facade, an act.

I was also bright enough to know that this "hospitality and kindness" was conditional and would disappear in a whiff of smoke should I stop nodding my head in agreement with their continuous nasty and racist comments on America, Americans, Israel, Jews, Africans, and non-muslims.

The smiles became snarls as soon as I pointed out the skeletons in their government's closet. The generosity turned to veiled and literal threats against my person when I refused to swallow the "group think" kool aid and defended as politely as possible the lies against my country, my government, my religion, my people, and my culture. A good or honest host would want to know if the conversation is making the guest uncomfortable. muslim hosts are neither honest nor good. Their guests, especially of the non-muslim persuasion, are quite literally a captive audience.

While I'm hospitable to people I don't like or agree with when I'm forced to I never give them the impression they're welcome. Nor do I make a big production of them being in my home. Just ask the cow that married my brother and her nasty little daughter. As much as I dislike them, their behaviors, and their comments I would never threaten them or throw them out. They are also free to speak their minds without fear of retribution. Rebuttal, yes. Retribution, no. The same cannot be said for "hospitable muslims."

I just shake my head in disbelief and frustration whenever I hear Pollyannas wax poetic about how "kind and generous" and "how much they're just like us" muslims are (what's that "rebuttal" always thrown out about painting and a broad brush). I want to scream "NO they are not not kind and generous! You didn't get to know them like you would a normal human being. You simply smiled, nodded your head and sipped the chai then promptly forgot all of the hateful, racist, bat crap crazy conspiracy nonsense you were forced to listen to about your country, your culture, your religion, your government and your people!"

Ted Bundy (woman hating serial killer)was charming, intelligent, flattering, and by all appearances "just like us." Appearances is the key word here. He faked injuries (broken arm, broken leg) to lure in his victims.

When there's a big production made out of any behavior it's only to cover something less than appealing.

Muslim hospitality is nothing more than a Broadway, Las Vegas, larger than life production, but the cast, crew, and outcome are below B-list.

The same can be said for muslim moderation.

Also, LemonLime, I fully expected Jolene to attack me the way that she did, and right before I hit the "Publish" button on 9-29 @2:39PM, these thoughts ran briefly through my mind ...

Okay you know that confronting Jolene is like stepping on a really old and reeeally pissed-off rattle snake, right, so you might get bit ..are ready for this? So I thought about it for like FIVE seconds and realized, well, yes! I am ready for this, since I can only get bit if I LET her bite me. Well, you saw what happened ...true to form she sprung into action hissing and spraying her venum in a wild snake attack ..but she missed me; since I was ready and I jumped out of the way. Yeah the poor thing ended up biting a nearby cactus plant instead, so she's still recovering from those wounds.

Isn't that what you saw happen?

Superb comment, Istanbul_Chick, and thanks for helping me see I'm not freaking alone -- and thanks to Champ on this point too, which you've shared before, about your anecdotal experiences with Muslims (funny how the positive anecdotal experiences seem to have more weight for people like Kepha or Daniel Pipes, but not the negatives ones...).

Istanbul_Chick, I'd like to cut out your comment and pin it to the door of the Jihad Watch community refrigerator with a magnet, so every time one of our fellow JWers goes there to reach in for the "I've known nice Muslims, don't say they're all bad, most are just ignorant of their own Islam, of course you can't deport them are you nuts" Kool-Ade, they can at least read a bit of sanity before they replenish their crypto-dhimmitude.

Hi Champ, I wasn't clear the first time around what Jolene was on about, all I noticed was some flurry from others. Since I trust you implicitly, I just assumed you were correct in your comments to Jolene at the time, but I didn't linger long to focus on it, as I was distracted by a couple of other issues, and actually eventually spent more time researching her old comments than scrolling up to review. Then I took a long break, did some errands, took a nap, and when I opened up JW again, I noticed this thread had lost considerable weight. I was just going to review Jolene's comments to see what you meant about your interaction a few minutes ago, and saw that even the slimy trace of the rattler is gone. Oh well.

Istanbul_Chick,

You wrote:

"While I'm hospitable to people I don't like or agree with when I'm forced to I never give them the impression they're welcome."

This is an excellent point which may go unnoticed by many readers of your comment. It highlights the obvious: the "hospitality" of Muslims (which also impressed even Geert Wilders when he visited Egypt as a student, so he insisted in one of his speeches) is most likely feigned and calculated -- and for good reason: it apparently works. Look at all the gullible dupes, many even in the Counter Jihad, who assume they must be genuine.

Psychologically, two things may be going on here:

1) a person doesn't like to think he's not a good judge of character generally speaking, and doesn't like to think he's been fooled;

2) to the extent a person, even in the Counter Jihad, still has the PC MC virus (if only in the form of persistent sniffles and a tickly throat), he is deep down, semi-consciously afraid of what it might mean to think that all Muslims are duplicitous, deadly snakes -- so he or she grasps desperately at indications that Muslims must be human like the rest of us. Well, they are human. Just not like the rest of us.

Thank you for responding, LemonLime! ...and you're right, this thread has lost considerable weight :-D