"if you don't stop chatting shit I'll personally come to america and deal with you"

I lived around Muslims all my life and one thing I can attest is that in most cases they know they live in a lie but too scared to acknowledge it. Their assumed prophet Mohamed's life has always been a big secret and a taboo subject until the Internet evolved and Great apologist like mr spencer, David wood, abnsat scholars, Ann coler few to mention.... Brought us the real truth behined muhammed .. Western civilizations also now showing interest in the religion of peace and with gods grace the true truth behined the Arab spring will be revealed soon I pray.

God bless you Robert spencer and abnsat scholars for all your great work.

yes, NICOLE, lies & fear. sad, it is like having a mean crazy cousin running loose and everyone wishes his DAD would lock him up in the attic! keep him home, which would keep the rest of us safe! but oh no, "he's got his rights!" do you see my eyes rolling around in my head?

Wellington,

"Islam indeed can't handle the truth. If it could, why is it so defensive respecting those who question it? "

If you meant this rhetorically, then I have no disagreement; but to the extent you were genuinely posing this literally, I think it misses the point. To impute that the defensive prickliness of Muslims when challenged or criticized reflects that they are consciously defending a weakness in Islam (and hence are aware of that weakness) I think gives them too much credit, and also (or perhaps consequently) tends to Westernize them into comprehensively manageable shape, doing intellectual violence to their Orientally jagged edges, so to speak, in order to make them fit our understanding.

My sense of what is going on with their defensive prickliness is that they are reacting on a more primitive level: they are lashing out against an offense they perceive against their sacred totem and -- simultaneously -- they are lashing out against the Enemy that has been identified for them precisely in this Violator of their sacred totem.

Only a very few of them have managed to undergo the long arduous journey of climbing out of the welter of evil darkness that lies as a deep existential pit in their limbic system in which they are trapped, slowly groping up toward the light where actual defensive awareness of their whole worldview's weakness and depravity even begins to impinge on their consciousness -- that long stage in the process through which an ex-Muslim-to-be remains for sometimes years, persisting in one way or another to defend Islam from attack even if he seems to be critical of more and more parts of it, as he slowly disengages from the Hell of his identity which is his whole world and meaning. And some ex-Muslims, I've noticed, haven't fully escaped from the State of Mind of Islam; even if they think they have and even if many in the Counter-Jihad congratulate them with premature enthusiasm and unalloyed trust.

This is the key to Muslim behavior: FEAR. Their insane ideology is all they have to define themselves; threaten that in any way, including "insults", and they experience a terrifying sense of loss of self because they have no real self, only what LemonLime calls their "sacred totem" of Islam, in which it is forbidden for any part of the self to exist apart from its sumbission to Allahoochiecoochie.

This is yet another argument against accommodation and other signs of dhimmitude which only reinforce that false sense of "self" that an unchallenged Islamic mileu provides. Just as a cult member being "deprogrammed" must be separated from everything that provides a link to the cult, so Muslims in the West must be prevented from re-creating the cocoon of Islam through such means as the establishment of Sharia and enforcement of bogus "hate speech" laws preventing criticism of Islam.

Wellington, yes, I agree with your comments. Occasionally I come upon info like this former Iranian muslim girl, currently an atheist, delivering a 15 minute lecture, followed by half hour of interesting additional comments, and opinions, at last year's global atheist convention (didn't know they had one). And her father, she says, is a mullah, and some other relative is an imam. Towards the end, she speaks of internal Iranian attitudes of the people on the street. Very interesting, and provides encouragement, in spite of Pew pols of muslim nation's attitudes.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=1sivAkHdV4Q

And for whatever reason, the top personal photog, for the top leader of Iran, defected, with loads of imagery, smuggled out of Iran at the recent UN baloney. He had already gotten his family out on a trip, as he had been loyal for years, previous. It is considered a major coup, certainly would be even more so if we had an American potus, in every way. The imagery is of recent imagery of all nuclear installations, secret matters, etc.

Smerdyakov wrote:

So we are to ask "Tom from Luton" as to how far reaches the rage of the frothing Rage Boy de jure?...

So it is perhaps redundant to point out that there are lots and lots of Toms in Luton...
..............................

There are indeed many Toms in Luton, Smerdyakov. But as I noted above, I believe rage boy here is referring to the intrepid Tommy Robinson of the EDL, which is based in Luton, and has stood up to violent Muslims like Abdinasir many times.

"Just as a cult member being "deprogrammed" must be separated from everything that provides a link to the cult..."

Yes, but to the 10th power. At the very least. Perhaps to the power of infinity. Islam's disease is unique. We can't reduce it to what we comfortably know from our world.

"I don't mean to sound like a broken record here, but what is it going to take to get people to wake up and realize mainstream muslims are nothing like us? "

Apparently, unfortunately, grimly, tragically, nothing less than too many of us are going to have to be mass murdered (and tortured) by Muslims in various places throughout the West over the coming decades.

I just hope that after we wake up and take care of the problem, we will convene a "Nuremberg 2" to put on trial and punish (with fines, prison time, and for certain egregious lapses, worse) those whose stupidity merged with a suicidal recklessness that endangered (and resulted in the deaths of) their fellow citizens. If only for the principle.

"in most cases they know they live in a lie"

A good friend of mine in Birmingham, UK, knows a Pakistani apostate who runs an off-licence (liquor store to our American friends). I was up visiting my friend, and we went to the store to buy some beers. The owner told me that around half his customers are Muslims.

Nice to see hypocrisy alive and well in the muslim community.

I meant my question in my post above rhetorically. Of course, there are some Muslims out there, still confused though they are, say an Irshad Manji or a Zuhdi Jasser, who will allow for some criticism of their faith without going hysterical, much as many Jews or Christians would of their faith, but the defensiveness of Muslims I was addressing was that of those who simply can't tolerate virtually anything being said which is negative about their religion, indicative to me of a deep-seated, subconscious denial of reality in favor of fantasy, and not a very good or healthy fantasy at that.

Wellington

this is offtopic, but I am currently reading through an earlier thread (4 October) and saw that you were wondering how my eye op (cataract removal and lens replacement) went. So I thought I would chip in here and bring you up to date.

The op was on 3 September and the recovery has gone well so far. I've been able to read and post though more slowly than usual: my brain is still adjusting to the drastic change in quality of input from the mended eye, that has radically shifted the 'balance' between the two eyes, right and left. Your dad the ophthalmologist might have mentioned this effect.

The main reason I've been less visible in the past couple of weeks, though, is that from Friday 21 September-Saturday 29 September inclusive I and my whole family were away on holidays (we have just had two weeks of spring school holidays, here in Australia) at a secluded location out bush where there is no internet access whatsoever (even mobile phone reception was decidedly patchy and chancy). So when I got back I had a full weeks' backlog of news and discussions to catch up on, not only here but at New English Review...as well as a mountain of family laundry and other chores to also get done.

Anyway, over the past week and a bit since I got back I've mostly been in the archives finding out what happened while I was away, adding a remark here and there, and of course squirrelling away copies of anything interesting in assorted e-clippings files. That's taken awhile. But I'm nearly caught up.

Thank you for your kind thoughts, sir, and my regards to you and yours.

Why should Hell-Her debate you about anything? Are you someone special?

For: dumbledoresarmy.....

I'll add my very best wishes....
.......I suspect that being away and out of range of these electronics may've been therapeutic of itself.....

I've had that surgery in both eyes and am now stable. Wear eyeglasses for reading.....these pages, and such.

sharida Abdoel, with a site "muslims-'demand'-.com" no need for any debate, you've just spoiled yourself.

I'm afraid you're right LemonLime. The West only acts when millions of people have already been slaughtered first by a fascist ideology.

I mean right now Muslims are actively killing, terrorizing and displacing thousands of people in countries few in the West take notice of like Myanmar and Thailand.

If we took Islam as seriously as we did Nazism, we'd realize we're already in a global war with Islam working to defeat it.

If the state is refusing to acknowledge and deal with the problem of Islam, then ultimately the responsibility for our defense will fall to our hands.

I have no intention of becoming a victim of the muslim horde when they come to destroy our towns and murder us-I'll go down fighting.

Which means that us 'aware' non-muslims need to get organized and prepare a counter-jihad, it's as simple as that. Muslims think they own our streets-as their thuggish, violent behavior in France and Britain demonstrate. We simply have to take them back, with force if necessary.

Seems to me WW3 will be a clandestine one fought within our own cities and neighborhoods and the media will say little to nothing about it-or worse completely take the muslims side as they are doing now.

What an ugly situation, both the media and state have failed miserably in their duty to inform and protect the masses of a grave threat to our civilization.

A major reason is that people still believe Islam is a religion and therefore off-limits to criticism and examination. These bad ideas are going to lead to a lot of death and destruction till we finally get it right.

yes. it is true. I am from Iran. only 1 1/2% of Iranians go to the mosque and they give a shitless about Islam. they are under the gun however, by Arabized Iranain Mullahs!! I was there back in July. the people hate the mulllahs!!!
M

A major reason is that people still believe Islam is a religion and therefore off-limits to criticism and examination.

That doesn't stands the examination. After all Christianity is a religion yet the media, politicians, assorted "artists" and millions of simpletons fancying themselves warriors for progress and enlightenment against the religious obscurantism are free to ridicule and deride, often in most vulgar and obscene manner, the Faith - especially Catholicism.

Think "Life of Brian" or Piss Christ.

Are these example of Christianity, being "off-limits to criticism and examination"?

Please do present one case in point to substantiate the claim.

We would do better to look for reason why islam is off-limits while our own native historical faith is not. Try to fathom this mystery and regardless whether you solve it you will stumble upon and awake many other questions while attempting to do so. They all need to be considered.

Dumbledore's Army, I'm glad you had a good trip.

I hope your eye operation was completely successful and that you are soon back up to speed.

I know I, for one, have greatly missed seeing your regular comments here.

sharida Abdoel wrote:

Pamela Hell-Her, don´t pay attention to him. You will destroy yourself. Your hatred is going a long way dragging a lot of people with you and that is the new America and the new American way.
.................................

Really, sharida, you need to keep track of whom your vicious coreligionists are threatening. Abdinasir, above, is threatening to "deal with" Robert Spencer, not Pamela Geller.

But don't worry, there are plenty of rabid Muslims threatening her, as well. You must be so proud!

More:

Please debate me anytime you like about 911 and I will be willing anywhere anytime.www.muslimsdemand.com
.................................

I looked back through your profile, and confirmed that you are a "Truther", and had posted this idiocy here before:

"Ground zero mosque, a second wave of 911? When was the first? The first was done by the Republicans..."

http://profile.typepad.com/6p0177443dc6c3970d

Not only is this grotesque calumny, it in no way explains the almost 2000 Jihad attacks all over the world since 9/11.

The fact that you mention in your profile that you "barely got through senior high" seems salient here.

The "Muslims Defend" site claims—bizarrely—that the United States is a "communist country" and that there "are no laws for Muslims"—that is, that America is not a Shari'ah state.

debate what? islam silencing free speech? or Islam supporting heterosexual pedophilia? which one?
M

So glad to hear from you, dda. May your recovery proceed optimally. And good to have you back here at JW. You've been missed. Take care, my friend.