Lara Logan: Obama lying, al-Qaeda and Taliban stronger than ever

A reporter who actually reports the truth: what a rare commodity these days. "Reporter Lara Logan brings ominous news from Middle East," by Laura Washington for the Chicago Sun Times, October 7 (thanks to all who sent this in):

This was no ordinary rubber chicken affair. That was my reaction to the extraordinary keynoter at Tuesday’s Better Government Association annual luncheon.

Lara Logan, a correspondent for CBS’ “60 Minutes,” delivered a provocative speech to about 1,100 influentials from government, politics, media, and the legal and corporate arenas. Such downtown gatherings are a regular on Chicago’s networking circuit. (I am a member of the BGA’s Civic Leadership Committee, and the Chicago Sun-Times was a sponsor).

Her ominous and frightening message was gleaned from years of covering our wars in the Middle East. She arrived in Chicago on the heels of her Sept. 30 report, “The Longest War.” It examined the Afghanistan conflict and exposed the perils that still confront America, 11 years after 9/11.

Eleven years later, “they” still hate us, now more than ever, Logan told the crowd. The Taliban and al-Qaida have not been vanquished, she added. They’re coming back.

“I chose this subject because, one, I can’t stand, that there is a major lie being propagated . . .” Logan declared in her native South African accent.

“There is this narrative coming out of Washington for the last two years,” Logan said. It is driven in part by “Taliban apologists,” who claim “they are just the poor moderate, gentler, kinder Taliban,” she added sarcastically. “It’s such nonsense!”

Logan stepped way out of the “objective,” journalistic role. The audience was riveted as she told of plowing through reams of documents, and interviewing John Allen, the top U.S. commander in Afghanistan; Afghan President Hamid Karzai, and a Taliban commander trained by al-Qaida. The Taliban and al-Qaida are teaming up and recruiting new terrorists to do us deadly harm, she reports.

She made a passionate case that our government is downplaying the strength of our enemies in Afghanistan and Pakistan, as a rationale of getting us out of the longest war. We have been lulled into believing that the perils are in the past: “You’re not listening to what the people who are fighting you say about this fight. In your arrogance, you think you write the script.”

Our enemies are writing the story, she suggests, and there’s no happy ending for us.

As a journalist, I was queasy. Reporters should tell the story, not be the story. As an American, I was frightened.

Logan even called for retribution for the recent terrorist killings of Christopher Stevens, the U.S. ambassador to Libya, and three other officials. The event is a harbinger of our vulnerability, she said. Logan hopes that America will “exact revenge and let the world know that the United States will not be attacked on its own soil. That its ambassadors will not be murdered, and that the United States will not stand by and do nothing about it.”...

| 72 Comments
del.icio.us | Digg this | Email | FaceBook | Twitter | Print | Tweet

72 Comments

| Leave a comment

Good for this Lara Logan. The more truth that is applied to Islam the more it will benefit the forces of freedom. Conversely, to say that Islam would ever benefit the forces of freedom doesn't even pass the laugh test.

Islam or freedom. Can't have both.

Thumbs up for Lara...She has earned them...

"she told of plowing through reams of documents" "The Taliban and al-Qaida are teaming up and recruiting new terrorists to do us deadly harm, she reports."

She could have found that info, in hundreds of articles, right here at JW.

Years ago.

Nonetheless, I'm glad "the cat" is finally getting out of the bag.

I am very surprised by her statement,she must be studying the danger that is Islam and Islamism.Here is an article on "Reza Aslan and his unscholarly hiding of the true cause of the Sepoy Mutiny of 1857 in India.

He wants us to believe it was the West's fault.

http://www.antisharia.com/2011/08/10/proof-reza-aslanmuslim-intellectual-from-iranis-no-realhonest-scholarpart-5/

AND ALSO

"Tipu Sultan (1750-1799) of India,Cruel Persecutor of the Hindus and St.Thomas Christians of Southern India"

http://www.antisharia.com/2012/10/08/tipu-sultan-1750-1799-of-indiacruel-persecutor-of-the-hindus-and-st-thomas-christians-of-southern-india/

Lara Logan, wasn't she the one that got some pedohammedan "Arab Spring" "love" in Tahrir Square?.

Yep...the reality of Islam, up close and very personal...

G-D BLESS HER FOR SPEAKING THE TRUTH!

Castle Obama continues to crumble and yet, in the midst all the continued disintegration of traditional America, the nay-sayers party on as did the care free Germans of the Weimar Republic. Obama's leftist fantasies and his zombie-like cult followers must be relegated to history's dust-bin....or else! Our future rests on the upcoming political election (or worse).

What will be the final frontier- at what point does civilization say... enough, one more atrocity, one step closer to a Caliphate & we will be forced to use the ultimate deterrent??

Sorry Lara, way too little, way too late. Where’s your apology to us for your ‘Arab Spring’ BS? This woman is a complete loser. F her. Until she speaks out against Islam as a whole, and Muslims as a whole, I have no sympathy whatsoever for her.

*spit*

It appears that Lara Logan learned the hard way about islamic attitudes during her experience in Tahrir Square. Unlike poster Fihq Al-Matter, I applaud this woman for realizing, however late, the threat that islamic ideology poses to the West, and to civilization in general.

Like Eric Allen Bell, she's apparently changed her mind; something that a logical and thinking individual when faced with evidence that they've been completely wrong should be praised for. I forgive her for the pablum she spewed about the "Arab Spring" at the behest of her bosses previously; she now knows that the "Arab Spring" is really an "Islamic Drain" sucking the entire region down into the 7th century. I just glad that she sees it for what is really is now.

Lara has paid a terrible price extracted on her naivette of before. She has learned much, and yet may be moved to learn much more. She may, and certainly has, the ability to become a warrior for Libertad.

She is an American, not the enemy, although she had before been at least weak on the enemy. We are America, yet, and our history and tradition, is to accept, enfold, and understand the wounded, who are we. Even to give medical care to our enemy, if safely possible. That is a part of civilization called mercy, real mercy, not the mercy of the enemy gang of islam, who calls mercy killing "mercy"! She is wounded, angry, hurt, and wishes to set the record straight, and I suspect, do heroic things. We owe her welcome, and thanks, and understanding. Not now derision, the time for that is well past, for her, as she has well above demonstrated!

I do not say this in anger at you, FM, as I understand your position, just sayin' as a reminder to all, most who understand. I contain satisfactory anger, at left liberals, and especially the enemy gang. I well understand the enemy in our own backyard, and his movements. But for the most part, I know who is the enemy.

"Logan *even* called for retribution..."
The writer is a child. Does she think what was done to Stevens should be forgiven and forgotten?

Greetings:

Interesting how that "native South African accent" was remarked upon. A little damning with faint praise, I suppose.

Yes. Considering what the writer says about what a journalist "should" be, she hardly lives up to the objectivity she apparently feels is appropriate, and there is too much of herself in this story.

Appropriate lyrics to the situation, including the larger situation, here:

http://lyricstranslate.com/en/mi-libertad-my-freedom.html

And a very wistful rendition of a quitly moving song of Freedom, sung here:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-CusCZ6Yijo

It could well be our motto, those loving civilization, and Liberte!

Sorry Lara, way too little, way too late. Where’s your apology to us for your ‘Arab Spring’ BS? This woman is a complete loser. F her. Until she speaks out against Islam as a whole, and Muslims as a whole, I have no sympathy whatsoever for her.

I agree, for the most part. Not only is Lara Logan guilty for whitewashing the Arab Spring, this latest supposedly no-nonsense missive is only about "Al Qaeda" and the "Taliban" -- as though that's all we have to worry about. Holy crap, that's so 2002. We in the Counter-Jihad sure must be desperate for the odd crumbs that fall from the Mainstream Table above our pathetic heads down here, to be satisfied and not demand more.

You don't get progress by lapsing into an enervated satisfaction with mediocrity. You press, you demand more, until you get the truth.

Sure, this is better than the crap the Mainstream regularly flings our way for us to slop up; but that's hardly an endorsement.

I guess we'll just have to wait for hundreds of thousands of us to get mass-murdered. By Muslims. There doesn't seem to be any sign that anything else will dislodge the majority somnambulists out there throughout the West from their golden slumbers.

I agree with you Fiqh, and concur with Hesp's follow-up.

I have never trusted her, and will continue my dislike for her until she says these two magic words:

"Islam sucks!" (or something else to that effect.)(or is that "affect"?)

Lara, you approaching the edge of the cliff; now, just get closer to the edge and jump! You'll be free then.


"I applaud this woman for realizing, however late, the threat that islamic ideology poses to the West"

There's no indication from the article that Lara Logan thinks "islamic ideology" is a threat -- only Al Qaeda and the Taliban: aka the "Tiny Minority of Extremists" ("Tiny" relative to 1.3 billion Muslims).

The last few sentences....

That is what Israel does not USA.

USA is the weak in terms of what people in Pakistan and Afghanistan and the rest of Middleeast think.

No one wants a war but if the message that you do kill ambassadors does not get out you are seen as weak.

Can't understand why anyone wants to diss Lara after what she endured at the hands of the enemy in Tahir Square. She is certainly a better sort of African-American than that toadying ignoramus in the White House.

She said: ..they are just the poor moderate, gentler, kinder Taliban,” she added sarcastically. “It’s such nonsense!”

Nonsense?
Check out this video, THIS is the gentler, kinder side of the intrepid Taliban. They're so sweet!

http://crossmuslims.blogspot.com/2011/05/fly-over-talibans-nest.html

Well, Lara's growing up, it seems. . .one day she could turn out to be a Lara Croft. . .let's hope so.

Huh? This is the woman who after her return blamed men, not Muslims or Muslim men, for her horrific rape in Cairo. I don't suddenly see her as a hero just b'cos she looks like talking some sense here.

One more case of a Liberal mugged, or more precisely raped, by reality.

Maybe someone here might get in touch with her and encourage her, gently, to read John Roy Carlson's 'Cairo to Damascus'.

After her experience in Tahrir Square Carlson - be sure to tell her he was the son of Armenians who managed to escape the genocide in Turkey in the early 20th century - might be able to get through to her. On at least two occasions *he* was very nearly murdered by rabid Muslims who thought he was a Jew; he escaped, each time, by the skin of his teeth. One of those occasions was in Cairo; and one in the hills of Judea.

The chapters of 'Cairo to Damascus' that are entitled 'The Moslem (Black) Brotherhood", and "World of the Koran: Islam Ueber Alles" are most immediately relevant. But there's lots, lots more.

And perhaps she could be encouraged, also, to read that other great journalist, Oriana Fallaci - Fallaci's interviews with Yasser Arafat, Qaddafi, George Habash and Ayatollah Khomeini, and then the books 'The Rage and the Pride' and 'The Force of Reason'.

After Lara's experience in Tahrir Square, she might be receptive to comprehending Fallaci's spine-chilling description (in 'The Rage and the Pride') of Muslim ritual mob violence in Bangladesh: a crowd of thousands shouting 'allahu akbar' as they trampled the bodies of a couple of young men who had been executed on a charge of homosexuality.

A rare commodity indeed. And she had learned about the Muslims the hard way, by actually being in their hands, literally. On Feb. 11 last year, the day Mubarak fell, CBS sent her to the Tahrir Square to broadcast the victory celebration by the "pro-democracy" revolutionaries. With totalitarian unanimity, CBS an ALL other Western media, and ALL Western democratic governments were glorifying the "Arab Spring" they aided. The revolutionaries mugged for Logan's camera crew, flashed victory signs, jubilantly cheered, while Logan kept praising them as "heroes of democracy" and conducting fawning interviews with them. But as soon as the shooting stopped and the camera was loaded back into the van, the whole crowd of heroes had violently assaulted her, tore her clothes off, and for the next 40 minutes brutally crowd-raped her. Then, as she later recalled, several of them grabbed strands of her hair and tried to scalp her. Others grabbed her arms and legs and began pulling in different directions, trying to literally tear her apart, with her desperatelly straining the muscles of her arms and legs to keep them from having her quartered. At that time, waves of other Egyptian Muslim males who did not get to rape the white woman, began protesting and pushing in, demanding that she be given to them intact, so they could rape her on. All tried to grab her from each other, not unlike the traditional Afghan sport of Buz Kashi, with 2 competing teams of horsemen jostling and fighting for a carcass of a goat, each trying to wrestle it from the others and ride away with it. Suddenly, she literally flew through the air and landed on the lap of a rag-coccooned female sitting nearby. At that time, Logan's crew, who had been desperatelly pleading with the apathetic Egyptian soldiers to rescue her, were finally able to convince them to intervene and pull her out of the "pro-democracy activists'" hands.
This incident had apparently traumatized the entire CBS News personnel into Stockholm Syndrome, because on April 22 this year, a bizarre CBS "60 Minutes" "story" aired, accusing Israel (!) of driving Christians out, and threatening the extinction of the Christian community there. The truth, of course, is that Israel is the only country in the region where Christians are safe, where everywhere else in the Middle East they are under assault by the Muslims, with the most horrible catastrophe befalling the ancient Christian community of Iraq "liberated" by our United States of America.
On Logan herself, however, it had the opposite effect. From that ordeal emerged a stronger, more courageous, more truthful Lara Logan. And, surely, she had learned the futility of trying to win the Muslims' good graces with friendly words and favors.
She should be encouraged to join Robert, Pamela, Jamie Glazov and others in the Resistance, and add to her education on Islam. She can be an asset in creating Resistance media. And also, we should give a thought to creating a courageous, truth-telling Zionist motion picture industry, as I had suggested here before.

Ruslan Tokhchukov, EnragedSince1999.

You guys seem to have a short memory; I guess April of 2011 is too long ago to make a difference -- long enough to forget, and long enough for rose-colored optimism to believe Lara Logan has changed sufficiently.

http://www.jihadwatch.org/2011/04/lara-logan-they-really-enjoyed-my-pain-and-suffering-it-incited-them-to-more-violence.html

Read through the comments; the vast majority were suitably cynical of Logan. And many admired Debbie Schlussel's take on it -- no holds barred, take no prisoners, enough bullshit analysis.

http://www.debbieschlussel.com/36514/lara-logan-liar-claims-she-didnt-know-muslims-abuse-women-300-muslims-raped-me-w-their-hands-for-40-mins/#more-36514

Jihad Watch readers are a strange bunch; they keep lurching one step forward, two steps back. I don't get it.

Laura Washington makes me queasy -- she's a die-hard Obama supporter. Look through anything she's written, and try to find anything even remotely critical of Obama. Her relationship with Obama is one of hero-worship, and not of objective impartial journalism that she claims to support.

http://www.suntimes.com/news/washington/index.html

Compare and contrast with the risible Mona Eltahawi who was also raped and mauled in Cairo.

Eltahawi first off describes her attackers as beasts yet after a suitable period of post rape contemplation is straight back into the fold as if her ordeal counted for naught.

Have the ever convoluted machinations of serpentine Islam convinced her that, hey, it wasn't so bad, boys will be boys and if that's what the scriptures tell them who am I to argue with our glorious prophet?

Is this a great example of the, through hoops, brainwashing which is needed to keep Muslims on message?

Logan has no such baggage and her objectivity thankfully has risen to overcome what pre rape sympathy she may have had for Islam.

The rose tinted spectacles once removed cannot hide reality and that reality, as we're seeing here in Britain is that Muslim males have a propensity to rape, especially if the victim happens to be a white unbeleaver.

They're seeing it in Scandinavia where for instance, every violent rape in Oslo over the last four years has been committed by a Muslim .

The odds that those rapists will be first generation immigrants, living off the teat of the state are overwhelming yet their thanks is to sexually assault the local Nordic women.

We are living in a time of the lie where political correctness has advanced so thoroughly that even when Muslim males pass thirteen year old girls around as sexual punchbags, authority will turn a blind eye.

Logan’s Dasmascean moment has thankfully disabused her of such obscene pandering and, at last here’s a first hand witness unafraid to tell the truth.

@Lemonlime (and others): Before I'd get too hard on Lara Logan, consider that, as a journalist, she must report to editors and publishers. Perhaps her pre-rape writing on the Arab Spring came from her own naivete about revolutionary situations (and about Islam); perhaps it was the "line" her superiors told her to follow if she wanted to keep her job.

Methinks the reported talk is the real Lara Logan. Yes, this may be a case of a soft Leftist being mugged by reality. But Uncle Cephas has decided that better late the never holds. Or, perhaps, the cruelties of this Vale of Baca in which we live have a way of stripping away illusions.

While I'm at it, I think that if the Libyans don't find and execute Ambassador Stevens' killers, her call for retribution makes eminent sense.

Robert Spencer, would you debate me on 911? No? I didn´t think so. Jesus and our Prophet are the same. Same Gender, dress the same, love the same God or father in heaven, only our prophet got married 11 times, Jesus got married 7 million times. Debate me on Islam then. Al Qaeda is sronger than ever? So George wasted everything he´s got and America´s got to do 911.www.muslimsdefend.com

I'm not Robert, even so, I don't imagine that he would wince at the prospect of debating a scallywag such as yourself.

"Jihad Watch readers are a strange bunch; they keep lurching one step forward, two steps back. I don't get it."

Cool it, LemonL.
Please, save the display of your exasperation with "not getting it" for the readers of your own blog - (all two of them on the best day). You sound silly doing it here

This person calling her/himself sharida abdoel does not have to debate anybody about 9/11;instead should go to any alqaeda website and read binladin's confirmation that he and alqaeda were behind 9/11.
As far as her/his claim that Jesus and Mohammad were the same; it's an absolute lie and confirms the Bible 1John2:22 which defines the Liar the Antichrist as the one that denies the Father and the Son. How can the Christ and the Antichrist be called the same.
The very concept of some angel bringing messages is not in the Bible; no one from Moses to Jesus said that what they are saying e.g.today is brought to them by an angel and what they said e.g.yesterday they made that up all by themselves so call one quran and the other hadith. It is very obvious that Moses, Jesus and other prophets of the Bible have absolutely nothing to do with allah, mohammad, islam and muslims and that they are all Liars.

Jihadists say: "Accept our belief system or die."

boneshack says "Lara, you approaching the edge of the cliff; now, just get closer to the edge and jump! You'll be free then."

So, now you want her dead because she doesn't hold to your views? In what way are you any different from our jihadist enemy?

"Jesus and our Prophet are the same."

Don't you dare compare the Holy One with your filthy self proclaimed prophet.
I'm not Spencer and I won't debate you, I'll let your own Islamic texts do the job:

http://crossmuslims.blogspot.com/2011/05/saint-and-sinner.html

"This woman is a complete loser. F her."

Now that's what I call a truly insightful, intelligent and articulate comment to make about a woman who was gang-raped in the line of duty. That's exactly how the Muslims who gang-raped her were thinking.

At first, I thought your screen name was a clever comment about Islamic law, but I'm beginning to wonder whether it actually better describes your post.

This is the woman who after her return blamed men, not Muslims or Muslim men, for her horrific rape in Cairo.

Yep. She also described the environment in Tahrir Square the night that she was raped as “like a Super Bowl party.” That’s Liberal code for “Conservative.” Liberal elitists like her operate with a stereotype in their minds of Conservatives as beer-swilling, football-watching, Confederate-flag-decorated pickup-truck driving, illiterate yahoos. In other words, it wasn’t Muslims that raped her, it was Conservatives. It’s the same kind of thinking behind the cases when liberal journalists report (albeit rarely) on atrocities committed by, for example, the Saudi government, and they use some description to explain it like “the intensely conservative Kingdom.” As if Conservatives everywhere are stoning adulterers and chopping off the hands of thieves.

She sees as the problem with Al Qaeda and the Taliban not that they’re comprised of Muslims, but Conservatives. And she’s reinforcing the “tiny minority of extremists” meme while she’s at it. One of the very memes responsible for the overall Western stance that facilitated her rape in the first place.

She’s as big a moronic, myopic, liberal culture warrior as she ever was.

She’s also complicit in helping the media to bury the fact that her rapists were chanting “Jew, Jew, Jew” while they were raping her. Doesn’t that fact by itself merit great focus? In that shameful 60 Minutes interview that she did afterward, her disgusting interviewer, Scott Pelley, even went so far as to try to paper over this detail by implying that they mistook her for an “Israeli.” He went out of his way to insert that term. As if there was an almost-understandable political motivation. As if, had she actually been an Israeli, the rape would have been justified.

Disgusting. The woman is a total disgrace.

That's exactly how the Muslims who gang-raped her were thinking.

No they were not. As you must surly know, they were operating in accord with Islamic law. According to Islamic law, the rape of captive non-Muslim women is perfectly permissible. You are making a common mistake that many in the West make. You are projecting the assumption of a Western mindset onto Muslims. You imagine that my quote must be how gang rapists in the West think, and so you assume that must be what the Muslims thought. In reality, they were being quite pious in their savage treatment of her.

I think you’re just having a less-than-rational reaction to a strongly worded criticism of this woman. But I make no apology for denigrating traitors. Especially one this stupid. We’re not going to win this war by being merciful.

@Fiqh,

mostly your views were a few lines & so i didn't imagine you would back them up forcefully, yet factually.

a superb answer to moralistic morons all over the world.
actually i feel you've stolen my words.so

fiqh you!

You were right to take me to task about Lara Logan. I had forgotten who she was and just read the article above which does not allude to what happened to her before. That's why in my post above I referred to "this Lara Logan," forgetting as I did what had happened to her previously and her reaction to it.

Now, it is possible that she has learned. Based on what is reported she said in this article, one could arguably conclude this. But who knows? She could still be suffering from Stockholm Syndrome at times while at other times seeing things clearly. I do not have enough information about the woman to know one way or the other. For her sake, and for the sake of the truth, I do hope she has seen the light completely. Probably not, but perhaps she has---or will. Of course, only when a person, any person, grasps that Islam itself is the root of the problem and not just some practitioners of it have they seen things the way they really are.


OT DDA:
So good to read you once again. I wish you a speedy
recovery from your eye surgury.

Best regards, Paul R.

So, now you want her dead because she doesn't hold to your views? In what way are you any different from our jihadist enemy?

No, I don't want her dead. What I said was a metaphor. To jump off the cliff of ignorance and seek the pure truth about islam.

My fault for not making that abundantly clear.

Now why can't all Jihad Watchers write uncommon sense like this post of Figh's? What's wrong with them? After all this time, and all these thousands of articles below them on Jihad Watch that positively scream for them to stop their prevaricating vanilla fudge doughy Gumby-like softness, they persist, perversely; then take offense when someone like me points it out. I was tired of this five years ago. I was angry three years ago. Now I'm near apathetic.

And "American Exceptionalist" takes the laughable stance (masquerading as an argument) that the mere fact that Lara Logan was gang-raped automatically confers upon her position cogency and thus inexorably demands respect and support from us. He's never heard of a person being victimized yet persisting in holding grievously wrong views about their victimizers, I suppose. Stockholm Syndrome, it's called. Only with Ms. Logan, it's a twist on it. She thinks she can exorcize the demons inside her and begin to find closure from the atrocity of her assault, by being "tough" on Al Qaeda and the Taliban, when in fact the way that "toughness" is framed is precisely to perpetuate her DENIAL of the actual perpetrators of her rape -- MUSLIMS -- and their actual motivation -- ISLAM.

Enough crumbs. You guys can continue being whores for crumbs, if you want (mmm, this dried-up crouton that fell today looks tasty!). I'm going on a hunger strike.

"Please, save the display of your exasperation with "not getting it" for the readers of your own blog - (all two of them on the best day)."

Ah, I see. Numbers = Truth.

Ah, I see. Numbers = Truth.

No, you see wrong.
"Numbers = Interesting" is, what I hinted at. This is not always applicable, but in most cases quite reliable indication of how important a site is.

You are picking on the irrelevant for the essence of message, which still is: "Cool it, LemonL" "You sound silly..."

As if you don't know...

I agree with Papa. Lara Logan gets it now. A change might be in the wind press core. We need her to keep speaking out. Let's not turn against one another here. Divided we fall.

Gets "what" now?

I understand your point, LL, but I would ask you if half-getting something, when previously you didn't get that same something at all, isn't evidence of a positive rather than a negative?

It was clear to me, boneshack.

She's come part of the way, but isn't there yet. I wonder if she thinks the mohammedans that raped and man-handled her in Tahrir Square were Taliban or Al-Quaeda ?

She needs to take that extra step, and understand in her bones, that those men did what they did because of **islam**, and no other reason.

@ Wellington: I'm with you, buddy. Uncle Kepha has reached the position that it's better to have someone "get it" at least partly than not at all--although, while I also took LL to task, I somewhat understand where he's coming from.

@Aziz Tayyab: Indeed, the Bible teaches us that Satan disguises himself as an angel of light; that if even an angel should preach a different Gospel, let him be anathema (and how much more a mortal man!); that the true work of angels is to help those inheriting salvation (which is given only through Jesus Christ).

@Sharida Abdoel: You say Jesus got married so many times, please inform me of your source. I doubt you're old enough to have lived in the times between King Herod of Judaea and the procuratorship of Pontius Pilate. And, for fair warning, I'm sure Mr. Spencer (like a lot of the rest of us) have read Ahmed Deedat and find him wanting. Quite a few of us here probably also have a more longstanding familiarity with the Old and New Testaments and the study of comparative religion than you.

Thank you, Jan, and all other fellow JWers who understood my point.

It seems our friend American_Exceptionalist doesn't understand the nuances (and vast literary repository) of the English language.

The voice of the civilized who has survived the savage. We can't ignore it.

Thank you, Lara Logan. May you have a long and happy life.

About a week ago I wrote a, probably overlong, comment here on Jihad Watch on the historically proven impossibility of foreign influences taking hold in Afghanistan, and now proving to again be true. In view of the terrible loss of U.S. and International troops being murdered by Afghans who are turning on their Allied military instructors, my opinion is that we should abandon these training programs, and if forced to remain in Afghanistan until 2014, should continue only with direct military interventions serving some directly military purpose related to our reasons for being there.
If fear of terrorist and anti-Western forces in Pakistan are the main concern of our administration, then our military counter-terrorism, SEALS, and undercover forces should be judiciously employed in Pakistan as deemed necessary.
My previous comment was wiped off and not printed.

Though the three posts I am commenting upon (Wellington, Jan, and Kepha) are contiguous, I can't do that linking thing for all three; but they are close enough above my head here for readers to see.

The common thread (pun intended) linking all three (pun intended) is this idea that "getting it" about the problem of Islam is strictly (and apparently completely) a quantitative process.

Two things wrong with this idea:

1) it fails to factor in the complex ways which the PC MC paradigm resists the force of data and dot-connection: a PC MC more often than not will show more stamina than Gene Kelly and Gregory Hines combined in their dancing evasions in this regard when presented with a long list of increasingly screamingly cogent dots and data about Islam & Muslims;

and, closely related to #1

2) the partial "getting it" of the problem of Islam & Muslims does not usually function rationally, as you three seem to think, as a stepping-stone to the more complete "getting it" which we Jihad Watchers all take for granted: in fact, it tends to function precisely the opposite way -- as a reinforcement of the TMOE meme (the Tiny Minority of Extremists): a meme that has had (and continues to have) amazing resilience in fending off mountains of dots and oceans of data that overwhelmingly refute it.

Not only does #2 indicate the related problem of the stubborn resistance to change on the part of PC MCs; it furthermore tends to reinforce the dangerous idea that there exist multitudes of harmless Muslims, even though we have no way of concretely pinpointing who they are or where they are at any given time, for the purposes of our self-defense against a danger that only continues to metastasize with horrific potential.

So the scales fell from Lara Logan's eyes, and now she has "graduated" to the wisdom of George Bush in 2002. Wow, we really must be desperate to find this comforting.

Why this TMOE meme enjoys the amazing ability for resiliency it does is a complex issue, involving several distinct and interlocking factors, which I have analyzed many times on my blog. But I do admit, it's better and easier on the nervous system (not to mention the digestive system) to consider the Problem of the Problem (i.e., the West's persistent myopia to the primary problem, Islam & Muslims) as a simple, rather than as a complex, problem. I wish I had the capacity some seem to have to settle for the more simplistic explanation; but I'm cursed with an inability in that regard.

If "half-getting" Islam does not lead to "fully getting" Islam, then it's not much good, a little perhaps but not much. But a lot of folks, and perhaps Lara Logan, will take that journey that leads from no understanding to half-getting things to full comprehension of Islam. We can only hope so even though so much is still put in the way of understanding Islam correctly.

You know, LL, what paradoxically slows you down in understanding where mankind is headed with Islam is your impatience with not getting to where we need to be faster.

Lara Logan: Obama lying, al-Qaeda and Taliban stronger than ever

A reporter who actually reports the truth: what a rare commodity these days.
................................

And very, very different from that other victims of sexual Jihad attack in Tahrir Square, Mona El-Tahawy, who has been actively enabling Jihad ever since.

And Logan is right—even if we were to myopically regard Jihad as just al-Qaeda and the Taliban, they are indeed stronger than ever—or in the case of the latter, at least stronger than at any time since they lost control of Afghanistan. Ominous—but accurate.

More:

“There is this narrative coming out of Washington for the last two years,” Logan said. It is driven in part by “Taliban apologists,” who claim “they are just the poor moderate, gentler, kinder Taliban,” she added sarcastically. “It’s such nonsense!”
................................

Absolutely. As absurd as much of the nattering about "moderate Muslims" in general might be, the willful denial involved in believing there is a "moderate Muslim Brotherhood", or—perhaps even more insane, given their history as having run the most horrific Shari'ah state of modern times in Afghanistan before 2001, complete with women being stoned in the streets—a "moderate Taliban", is even more ludicrous.

More:

Logan stepped way out of the “objective,” journalistic role. The audience was riveted as she told of plowing through reams of documents, and interviewing John Allen, the top U.S. commander in Afghanistan; Afghan President Hamid Karzai, and a Taliban commander trained by al-Qaida. The Taliban and al-Qaida are teaming up and recruiting new terrorists to do us deadly harm, she reports.
................................

No. Logan just stepped out of the "disinterested" journalistic role. It appears to me that she is one of the few in the mainstream media who *is* being at least somewhat objective here.

As for all those above disgusted by the slow—nay, glacial—pace taken by those who even partially become aware of the Jihad threat, I fully share your frustration.

Yet it appears to me that our main objective at this point is to spread the word about the Jihad threat to those in the West. An even partial understanding of that threat—crumb though it may seem—is a step in the right direction.

It is also very true that not every glimmer of understanding leads automatically to a full realization of the threat we face. I was ruefully reminded of this fact recently: I had been quite heartened over über-liberal talk show host Bill Maher's comments on Islam over the past several years, only to hear him pronounce—astonishingly—that America had long since won "The War on Terror"—and this, on the *very same show* where he discussed the murder of Ambassador Chris Stevens in Libya.

Still, it is not only a matter of the evolution of these pundits as individuals, but also the fact that many of their listeners and readers may take a new look at Islam as a result of their words.

I do believe the West is sloooooooooowly waking up—but the pull of PC/MC—as well as garden-variety, head-in-the-sand denial—still remains the default position for most.

Dvora wrote:

My previous comment was wiped off and not printed.
.............................

Actually, Dvora, *very few* comments are removed by Jihad Watch—usually it has to be something particularly egregious, such as genocidal comments.

Sometimes a comment doesn't post immediately—try hitting "refresh", or open the page in a new window. A minor problem with TypePad is probably more likely than that your post was actually removed.

sharida Abdoel wrote:

Robert Spencer, would you debate me on 911? No? I didn´t think so. Jesus and our Prophet are the same. Same Gender, dress the same, love the same God or father in heaven, only our prophet got married 11 times, Jesus got married 7 million times. Debate me on Islam then. Al Qaeda is sronger than ever? So George wasted everything he´s got and America´s got to do 911.www.muslimsdefend.com
...............................

More crap from this meretricious Muslim apologist.

Adolf Hitler and Winston Churchill were the "same gender", as well, and both frequently wore suits, yet they could scarcely have been more different when it came to anything substantive.

Of course, sharida Abdoel here is likely making the common Muslim claim that Jesus—really, the Muslim "Isa"—are one and the same. But these figures could not be more different. Far from the savior, healer and peacemaker of the Bible, the main purpose of the Muslim "Isa" is to *kill Christians* in the last days. Not exactly the same...

And doesn't this idiot realize that the claim—made endlessly at the "Muslims Defend" site—that 9/11 was done by America herself only seems more and more ridiculous all the time in light of the unceasing savagery from Jihadists?

9/11 may have been larger in scope than most acts of Jihad terror, but that is the *only* real difference. There have been almost 20,000 Jihad attacks since 9/11, and many—including the Madrid Train Bombings, 7/7 in Britain, and the Mumbai Attacks in India—have been otherwise very similar.

Unless sharida would have us believe that all 19,000-plus atrocities, all over the world, were perpetrated by George Bush to "make Muslims look bad"...

"You know, LL, what paradoxically slows you down in understanding where mankind is headed with Islam is your impatience with not getting to where we need to be faster. "

I don't care if my understanding of where mankind is heading with Islam is slowed down, as long as we can minimize the number of mass murder victims of Muslims. If impatience like mine serves to hinder that goal of minimizing that number, then obviously it's a bad thing. I just don't think it does. Not everything is paradoxical.

If indeed your impatience would mitigate future casualities, I'd be right there with you. But I think it at best many times a neutral, even arguably a negative sometimes because lesser human beings than yourself can't grasp the truth of what you know and what you have tried to convey and thus, instinctively, recoil from your correct assessments.

Mankind, and especially the free portion of mankind, has to be talked into new ideas rather slow like. The idea (which is correct) that mankind could produce a major religion which is rotten to the core is going to take some time to sink into the collective psyche of the West (and other places). Your understanding of Islam is eminently correct but, as I've written before here at JW many times, it's not enough to be right, you must also know how to be right.

I'm with you in substance. Where we differ is on strategy and the amount of time it will take for the world at large to finally conclude that Islam really, really sucks. Yes, if more folks saw things as you and I do, much blood and tragedy would be avoided. But my studies of the past have led me to the conclusion that man ordinarily explores every possibility before adopting the right one. Patience, my friend, even though it's deuce difficult to maintain manh times.

"Mankind, and especially the free portion of mankind, has to be talked into new ideas rather slow like. "

It's actually an old idea; it's PC MC that's the new idea, only a fashion, a worldview that has held dominance for less time than the short-lived Soviet Union. I think a Breitbartianly aggressive approach is appropriate for such short-lived nonsense. And since hardly anybody tries it out (out of timidity), we don't know if your theory about its ineffectiveness is correct.

It's going to take some time, even without PC/MC delaying things even more, to convince mankind that mankind could get a major religion that is putrid from the get-go. It will eventually occur, and like you I wish it would occur sooner rather than later in order to avoid much bloodshed and expense, but it will, I'm convinced, take decades at least.

"It's going to take some time, even without PC/MC delaying things even more..."

I disagree. And the hypothetical test would be: If Islam were a White Power cult, and Muslims were whites expressing all their supremacist hatred against people of color, and perpetrating all their violence in the name of that racist hatred of people of color -- they would have been shut down long ago by a unanimous coalition of the free world along with a majority of nations allied with them.

Yeah, you're right about the White Power cult example but Islam slipped under the radar long ago as a world religion and this has given it great cover and it's why it's going to take extra time to talk the world into finally realizing it's something quite negative. There is also this: Something not entirely evil (e.g., Islam) as opposed to something transparently evil (e.g., a White Power cult) is actually more menacing, difficult and wicked. Islam does have some aspects and traditions to it (e.g., medieval Islamic architecture) which can't be described in negative terms, in fact quite the opposite, and this too masks the rot in Islam at times rather well. As I've written before here at JW, part of the reason why Satan in the Christian tradition is so powerful is precisely because he sometimes tells the truth.

I would change the term in my immediate post above from "not entirely evil" to "not obviously evil." I think the latter expression is more accurate.

'' ... part of the reason why Satan in the Christian tradition is so powerful is precisely because he sometimes tells the truth.''

So true, Wellington. Mixing truths with lies is the most powerful, and successful, form of propaganda.

One of the reasons, I think, that lefty useful idiocy and apologists for islam is so difficult for a lot of well meaning people to see through, is that there is no denying that white caucasians have, in the past, treated asiatics and semites badly. We in the West have a well defined bump of guilt and self-recrimination, combined with a lack of education in critical, historical thinking, which is very easy for malevolent people to play on.

Just to add to what you said, Jan, I would observe that all peoples, of whatever race or ethnicity, have blood on their hands, but no group of human beings more than whites in the West, and particularly white Western males, have apologized for their wrongdoings. In fact, it's sometimes overkill by Western white males respecting the apologia game, which respective group, I might add, quite arguably have contributed more to the advance of mankind than any other group of human beings.

One has to be very careful in the way one states this (I hope I have), but if you exclude from civilization that which white males have accomplished, I would argue, in spite of these politically correct times in which we live, you would exclude the greatest proportion of achievements in all of man's history. To the extent that one can't publicly state what I have just averred without charges of bigotry coming one's way, to that extent I would argue we still live in a phony and unfree world.

Hope you and yours are well, Jan. Take good care.

http://across.co.nz/SlaveTA.html

You said,

'' ... no group of human beings more than whites in the West, and particularly white Western males, have apologized for their wrongdoings.''

Very true. If you click on the link, you can see an excellent example of that ''overkill.''

You'll note there were no *Arab* apologists there, *or* any *Africans* whose ancestors had been complicit in the slave trade !

Thanks for that link, Jan. Wow. How pathetic can one get. Overkill indeed. And it flies in the face of every decent legal system that the sins of ancestors are not to be visted upon their progeny. Even if one's grandfather was a member of Hitler's SS, that doesn't make the grandson or granddaughter guilty in any way. And, as you mentioned, many, many Arabs and black Africans participated in the slave trade as well. There is also the fact that the major reason why the Atlantic slave trade was finally shut down was because of the efforts of the British Navy. It is often a phony and false world out there, that's for sure. Take care, Jan.

Leave a comment

NOTE: The Comments section is provided in the interests of free speech only. It is mostly unmoderated, but comments that are off topic, offensive, slanderous, or otherwise annoying stand a chance of being deleted. The fact that any comment remains on the site IN NO WAY constitutes an endorsement by Jihad Watch, or by Robert Spencer or any other Jihad Watch writer, of any view expressed, fact alleged, or link provided in that comment.







Not Peace But A Sword by Robert SpencerDid Muhammad Exist? The Muslim Brotherhood in America, by Robert SpencerIslamophobia: Thoughtcrime of the Totalitarian FutureMuslim Persecution of Christians, by Robert Spencer Obama and IslamThe Ground Zero Mosque: Second Wave of the 9/11 Attacks
The Complete Infidel’s Guide to the Koran


Stealth Jihad


The Politically Incorrect Guide to Islam


The Truth About Muhammad


What they’re saying about Robert Spencer
“My comrade-in-arms, my pal, my buddy.”
Oriana Fallaci

“Robert Spencer incarnates intellectual courage when, all over the world, governments, intellectuals, churches, universities and media crawl under a hegemonic Universal Caliphate’s New Order. His achievement in the battle for the survival of free speech and dignity of man will remain as a fundamental monument to the love of, and the self-sacrifice for, liberty.”
Bat Ye’or

“Robert Spencer is indefatigable. He is keeping up the good fight long after many have already given up. I do not know what we would do without him. I appreciate all the intelligence and courage it takes to keep going despite the appeasement of the West.”
Ibn Warraq

“America's most informed, fearless, and compelling voice on modern jihadism.”
Andrew C. McCarthy, Senior Fellow at National Review Institute

“Robert Spencer is the leading voice of scholarship and reason in a world gone mad. If the West is to be saved, we will owe Robert Spencer an incalculable debt.”
Pamela Geller, Atlas Shrugs

"The consummate Islam critic and expert." — Bruce Bawer

“Over the years, we have become friends, and I have received his assistance on several pieces of legislation I proposed.”
Former Congressman Tom Tancredo

“Few people are capable of applying scholarship, analytical reasoning, and objectivity to their topic -- while simultaneously being readable and witty -- as can Robert Spencer.”
Raymond Ibrahim

“A national treasure...The acclaimed scholar of Islam.”
Frank Gaffney, Center for Security Policy

“I am indeed honored to call him my friend.”
Brad Thor, novelist

“A top American analyst of Islam....A serious scholar...I learn from him.”
Daniel Pipes

“A brilliant scholar and writer.”
Douglas Murray

"One of my best teachers."
Ashraf Ramelah, Voice of the Copts

“Thank God there’s at least one man with balls left in the West.”
Kathy Shaidle, Five Feet of Fury

“I read people like [Mark Steyn] and Bob Spencer and the rest of them, and I say, ‘Boortz, you’re pretending you’re an author. These people really are. They really write some entertaining, some standup stuff.’”
Neal Boortz

“Robert Spencer is the Stephen King of Jihad.”
Chris Gaubatz, Muslim Mafia

“Armed with facts and fearlessness, Spencer stands up for Western civilization.”
Michelle Malkin

“Widely read in conservative foreign policy circles.”
New York Times

“Widely read in many quarters in Washington.”
Washington Post

“A canny operative who likely has the inside track on the State Department’s Middle East affairs desk should the tea party win the White House.”
New York Magazine

“A hero of the American right.”
Karen Armstrong

"The leading anti-Islamic intellectual in the United States....The go-to Islam expert for the right wing."
Salon Magazine

“Robert Spencer is an Edward Said turned upside down.”
Stephen Suleyman Schwartz

“One of the nation's most notorious Islamophobes.”
Hamas-linked CAIR

"Geller and Spencer are probably the most important propagandizing Islamophobes in the world. These people's voices speak very loudly — not just here in the United States but overseas."
Heidi Beirach, Southern Poverty Law Center

“Satanic ignoramus.”
Khaleel Mohammed

“The Likud anti-Christ.”
Dar al-Hayat newspaper (Saudi Arabia)

“Zionist Crusader, missionary of hate, counter-Islam consultant.”
Al-Qaeda’s Adam Gadahn, “Azzam the American”



Follow me on Twitter
facebook islam
RSS feed

Monthly Archives



Donate
Jihad Watch is a 501 (c) 3 organization. Donations are tax-deductible.


Robert Spencer debates on The Quran Teaches WarVideo: Robert Spencer on CPAC Breitbart News
SIOAFreedom Defense InitiativeJihad Watch VideosAmerican Freedom Law Center
Note: Listing here does not imply endorsement of every view expressed at every linked site.

» ACT for America
» Always on Watch
» American Center for Democracy
» American Coptic Association
» American Council for Kosovo
» American Freedom Alliance
» American Freedom Law Center
» American Islamic Forum for Democracy
» American Sheepdogs
» American Thinker
» Americans Against Hate
» Americans for Legal Immigration
» Amerisrael
» Amillennialist Contra Mundum
» Annaqed
» A New Dark Age Is Dawning
» Answering Islam
» Answering Muslims
» Anti-CAIR
» Apostates of Islam
» Aramaic Broadcasting Network (ABN)
» Armies of Liberation
» Assyrian International News Agency
» Atlas Shrugs
» Atour — The State of Assyria
» Australian Islamist Monitor
» Biafra Nation
» Blazing Cat Fur
» Bosch Fawstin
» Brad Thor
» Brussels Journal
» CAIR Watch
» Campus Watch
» Caroline Glick
» Christians Under Attack
» Citizen Warrior
» Coalition for the Defense of Human Rights
» Conservative Nation News
» Copts.com
» Creeping Sharia
» Daniel Pipes
» David Horowitz Freedom Center
» The David Project
» David Thompson
» David Yerushalmi Law
» D. C. Watson
» Dearborn Underground
» DEBKAfile
» Dhimmitude.org
» Dry Bones
» Ellis Washington Report
» Europe News
» Eye On Islam
» Ezra Levant
» Faith Freedom International
» Father Zakaria
» Federale
» Five Feet of Fury
» Foundation for Democracy in Iran
» Free Congress Foundation
» The Free Copts
» Freedom Defense Initiative
» FrontPage Magazine.com
» Geert Wilders
» Genocide1915.info
» Global Research in International Affairs (GLORIA) Center
» History of Jihad
» Hizb ut-Tahrir Watch
» Honest Reporting
» Honor Killings
» Human Rights Congress for Bangladesh Minorities
» India Defence
» Infidel Blogger’s Alliance
» Infidels Are Cool
» The Intelligence Summit
» International Analyst Network
» International Free Press Society
» Internet Haganah
» The Investigative Project on Terrorism
» IOwnTheWorld.com
» IranPressNews
» Iran va Jahan
» Islam Review
» Islam Speaks
» Islam Versus Europe
» Islam Watch
» Islamic Terrorism in India
» Islamist Watch — Middle East Forum
» Israel Matzav
» JihadOnBuddhists.org
» Kejda Gjermani
» KRSI: Radio Sedaye Iran
» Liberated
» Logan's Warning
» Looking At the Left
» Mahdi Watch
» Mapping Sharia
» Mark Steyn
» Martin Kramer
» MEMRI TV
» Middle East Facts
» Middle East Quarterly
» Middle-East-Info.org
» Middle East Media Research Institute
» Middle East Review of International Affairs (MERIA)
» Militant Islam Monitor
» Morning Star
» Muhammad Tube
» The Muslim Issue
» Muslim World Today
» Myths and Facts
» National Vietnam & Gulf War Veterans Coalition
» NewsReal Blog
» No Mosques At Ground Zero
» Nonie Darwish
» Northeast Intelligence Network
» Occidental Jihadist
» One Jerusalem
» Open Speech
» Operation Give
» Operation Gratitude
» Organiser
» Orwellian Culture
» Palestinian Media Watch
» PamelaGeller.com
» Panun Kashmir
» Pedestrian Infidel
» The People's Cube
» The People of the Book
» Persecution Project
» Political Islam
» Politically Incorrect
» Politiskt Inkorrekt
» Q Society of Australia
» Radio Farda
» Radio Jihad
» RAWA: Revolutionary Association of the Women of Afghanistan
» Raymond Ibrahim
» Red Alerts
» Refugee Resettlement Watch
» Religion of Peace
» Republican Riot
» Reuters Middle East Watch
» The “Reverend” Jim Sutter
» SANE: Society of Americans for National Existence
» The Second Draft
» Shire Network News
» SITE Intelligence Group
» Small Wars Journal
» Smoke-Filled World
» The Snooper Report
» Snow Report Blog
» StandWithUs
» Steve Lackner
» The Stiletto Blog
» STOP! Honour Killings
» Sultan Knish
» Tell the Children the Truth
» Terrorism Awareness Project
» Theodore’s World
» Tom Gross Media
» Translating Jihad
» Una via per Oriana
» Undaunted
» United States Central Command
» Urban Infidel
» Walid Shoebat
» Winds of Jihad
» Women Against Shariah
» World Council for the Cedars Revolution
» Yid With Lid
» Z Street
» Zilla of the Resistance
» Zionist Conspiracy
Crucified Again by Raymond IbrahimDavid LittmanOriana Fallaci Thousands of Deadly Terror Attacks Since 9/11The incredible Reza Aslan automated insult generator! iGoogle Gadget
Site Meter