Muslims persecuting Ahmadis...in the UK

Yet in the U.S., Ahmadi spokesmen like the execrable Harris Zafar carry water for the same Islamic supremacists who would cheerfully slit his throat if they were both back in Karachi, and instead targets those who stand up for the Ahmadis and decry their persecution.

"Ahmadi Muslims in UK call for urgent action against hate," by Haroon Siddique in The Guardian, October 7 (thanks to Lachlan):

Members of a Muslim sect persecuted in Pakistan have called for action to prevent groups from peddling hate against them in the UK.
The Ahmadiyya community in the UK says it is being targeted through various media and in mosques and conferences by behaviour that it says amounts to religious hatred but is not caught by the definition of that offence under UK law.

The community moved its headquarters to the UK in the 1980s after the Pakistani government passed a law forbidding Ahmadis from calling themselves Muslims and curbing their religious practices.

They were also hounded in Pakistan by Islamic groups that have set up UK satellite offices and are doing the same here, according to Naseer Din, president of the London Ahmadiyya community. "They are advocating sectarianism in Pakistan and creating hatred," he said. "These [same] groups are coming here and creating the same hatred … There is indoctrination going on in the Muslim community."

One anti-Ahmadi group is Khatme Nubuwwat, whose UK academy is in Forest Gate, east London. Its website variously describes Ahmadis as "traitors", "double faced", "dangerous" and engaged in a "conspiracy against Islam".

The Liberal Democrat peer Lord Hussain appeared at a Khatme Nubuwwat conference in Luton in July, an event Din said Hussain should not have been supporting.

A leaflet distributed in Wandsworth, south-west London, this year, attributed to a group called Aalmi Majlis Tahaffuze Khatme Nubuwwat, states: "Qadianis [a pejorative term for Ahmadis] are apostate ('Murtad') … He should be given the punishment of a Murtad which is capital punishment." It later makes clear: "Individuals cannot and should not administer this punishment."

Khatme Nubuwwat means "finality of prophethood", a reference to the fact that, unlike other Muslims, Ahmadis do not believe Muhammad was the last of the prophets.

This view has also prompted opprobrium on Asian community TV channels operating out of the UK. In May this year the media watchdog, Ofcom, found the Manchester-based Asian television network DM Digital to be in breach of rule 4.2 of its broadcasting code, forbidding abusive treatment of religious views, after an Islamic scholar on one of its programmes stated that the late founder of the Ahmadiyya community was "an apostate and one who deserves to be killed". Takbeer TV has also been censured by Ofcom.

Din said: "We don't want to stem …true discussion and scholarly debate but it mustn't be played out in a climate of hate … Where there's a history of a certain type of person or movement, like Khatme Nubuwwat preaching at conferences, in mosques … someone needs to look at it. The government needs to act before it gets out of hand."

Last month, three Ahmadis were reportedly shot dead in 10 days in Karachi in suspected hate crimes. The most notorious attack against Ahmadis came in 2010 when co-ordinated assaults on two Lahore mosques killed scores of people. Din warned: "It's only a matter of time until an atrocity is carried out against someone in our community here."

Akber Choudhry, a former Ahmadi from the Khatme Nubuwwat academy, said the group merely sought to help people confused about Islam by the Ahmadiyya community's teachings. "The hype [about persecution] is worse than the fact. No one in the UK wants to hurt, hate or harm the Ahmadiyya community." "Some of our [the UK's] imams are firebrands, but that doesn't have anything to do with the academy."

Choudhry promised to remove any offensive content on the academy's website drawn to his attention, but said some offending words were down to "cultural differences". "If there's something that is considered inflammatory, that should not be there," he said. "We call [the Ahmadiyya] a cult, which may be inflammatory."...

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17 Comments

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salah | October 8, 2012 9:23 AM | Reply

"..behaviour that it says amounts to religious hatred but is not caught by the definition of that offence under UK law."

One might wonder if this video-taped "behaviour" against Ahmadis in Indonesia is an "offence" under UK law!!!

http://crossmuslims.blogspot.com/2011/02/indonesia-lynching.html

miriam rove | October 8, 2012 9:44 AM | Reply

th government in UK is doing its own people in, in favor of the islamists.
M

Dsinc | October 8, 2012 10:57 AM | Reply

"We call islam a cult, which may be inflammatory."...

WhupTdue | October 8, 2012 12:29 PM | Reply

Ironically, it is the Calgary Ahmadiyya community which threatens to go door to door to "explain" why the film "Innocense of Muslims" is so offensive.

These folks leave their native communities reportedly due to physical and societal oppression yet dare to bring their own brand of oppression to the places in which they feel protected.

Yet another example of the dualistic nature of Islam.

Lan astaslem.

billposer | October 8, 2012 1:05 PM | Reply

It's an interesting question whether "hate speech" laws would have much of an effect on persecution of Ahmadis. It is a fact that Ahmadis believe that Muhammad was not the last prophet, so (other) Muslims are quite correct in regarding them as heretics. In a free society, people must have the freedom to promote their own religious views and criticize others, so orthodox Muslims should be free to condemn what to them is the Ahmadi heresy and urge Ahmadis to convert to what in their view is the true Islam. What hate speech laws can do is forbid explicit calls for the murder of Ahmadis and direct vilification of Ahmadis. But since any orthodox Muslim knows that the penalty for apostasy is death and that heresy is considered apostasy, much the same effect can be achieved merely by expounding on the truth that Ahmadis are, from an orthodox Muslim point of view, apostate. The threat is implicit, but nonetheless real. Is it realistic to think that prohibiting direct vilification and calls for the murder of Ahmadis would change much? I suspect that real change can only be effected by convincing Muslim bigots that people are entitled to hold whatever religious beliefs they wish without fear of persecution.

asz | October 8, 2012 4:12 PM | Reply

I totally agree with Mr.Din that this kind of hate propaganda should be stopped, before it turns ugly and the same kind of things start happening to Ahmadis in UK as are happening in Pakistan. This violence and propaganda will not only be against Ahmadis, but also against other sects, but it can be spread to other religions too. It should be strongly protested by the UK Govt and stopped before it goes any further.
These kinds of campaigns lead to activities which lead to violence. Ahmadis are peace loving community and have suffered enough in Pakistan at the hands of these so called Mullahs.
As far as believing in the Holy Prophet Muhammad saw, as the last Prophet is concerned, he(saw) himself said, in a Hadiz that there will be a prophet or Imam Mehdi after me. So people who donot beleive in what he said, should worry that they are denying what he said. Please go to alislam.org, if you want more info about Ahmadiyya sect.

Shahnaz Latif | October 8, 2012 5:37 PM | Reply

This is the time for UK government to control these kinds of campaigns, otherwise it lead to violence. These fanatic Mullahs will soon start their campaign against other Muslim sects. UK government should take action and learn lesson from the condition of Pakistan. Ahmadis are peace loving community and have suffered enough in Pakistan at the hands of these so called Mullahs. The Ahmadiyya Muslim Community is believed that the long-awaited messiah has come in the person of Mirza Ghulam Ahmad (1835-1908) of Qadian, India. He is the metaphorical second coming of Jesus of Nazareth and the divine guide, whose advent was foretold by the Prophet of Islam, Muhammad. Ahmadiyya Muslim Community believes that the Holy Prophet Muhammad (peace and blessing of Allah be upon him) is the last Law bearing prophet of God. Holy Quran is the last revealed book by God. The Ahmadiyya Muslim Community believes that God sent Ahmad within the fold of Islam. Ahmad’s advent has brought about an unprecedented era of Islamic revival. Please visit www.alislam.org to remove your misunderstanding about Ahmadiyya Muslim Community

SpeakUpForThem | October 8, 2012 10:14 PM | Reply

why isn't the quran banned as "hate speech"?

Diana Summers replied to comment from SpeakUpForThem | October 8, 2012 11:15 PM | Reply

why isn't the quran banned as "hate speech"?

For the same reasons that Exodus, Numbers, Deuteronomy, Joshua and Judges are not banned as hate speech. For the same reason that Mein Kampf is not banned as hate speech. You can't really condemn people for reading an incitement to violence that was written decades, centuries or millennia ago for other people in a different context.

Of course, there are a few people who take the book of Joshua or Mein Kampf absolutely literally as instructions for today. Those people are not well regarded in Britain.

When it comes to taking the hate speech in the Qur'an literally as an instruction for violence today - the Ahmadiyya don't. Many moderate Shia and Sunni Muslims don't. Even if they claim they do "take the Qur'an literally", they usually haven't read it.

Britain's hate speech laws simply haven't caught up with the reality that the Qur'an is the kind of text more likely than Joshua or Mein Kampf to be understood as a literal incitement to violence.

Dorith | October 9, 2012 2:23 AM | Reply

Just a little note - In Haifa (Israel) where Jews of various degrees of religious adherence, christian and muslim Arabs live together, there is also a neighbourhood where the achmadiya followers live. And of course we should not forget that Haifa is the world center for the Bahai faith.

We can live together peacefully!!

joeblough | October 9, 2012 9:34 AM | Reply

If England isn't going to defend its own people, I rather doubt it will defend the Ahmadis.

Roger Cole | October 9, 2012 12:55 PM | Reply

And I call Islam a cult, "which may be inflammatory."...

Roger Cole | October 9, 2012 12:58 PM | Reply

No we can't, not while Islam exists in the world, Dorith.

Muslimforpeace replied to comment from WhupTdue | October 9, 2012 2:02 PM | Reply

I m not sure how going door to door to explain is offensive ?

Muslimforpeace | October 9, 2012 2:06 PM | Reply

Ahmadis believe in peace, arguments based on reason and have motto of " love for all, hatred for none "
Find more at www.alislam.org

Option61c | October 9, 2012 3:54 PM | Reply

Ahmadis...Muslims...two sides of the same camel urine soaked coin.

Diana Summers replied to comment from Muslimforpeace | October 9, 2012 5:15 PM | Reply

Muslimforpeace, going door to door is not offensive of itself. However, it is offensive to use an emotive tactic (looming over the doorstep) to make Canadians at home in Canada feel they are somehow in the wrong to have a difference of opinion.

It is not of itself offensive to opine that "respect for religion" is more important than freedom of speech. But it is offensive to suggest that non-violent "disrespect for a religious leader" is the cause of violence. No, the cause of violence is the decision to act violently.

It is not of itself offensive to hand out pamphlets that share the story of Mohammed's life. But it is offensive to publish dishonest histories as if they were true. I haven't seen the pamphlet so I don't know whether it is dishonest. But I do know that the biography of Mohammed in the Innocence of Muslims trailer, though sensationalised, was more or less accurate. If the pamphet is going to "refute" this biography, it will be a deceitful document. If it is only going to tone down the exaggerations, it won't say very much that is worth reading.

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