Pamela Geller: Darkness descending in England

The other alternative is that freedom-lovers will dig in their heels and start a civil war against the leftists and muslims.

When you take away people's democratic rights and freedoms, all they'll have left is respond with violence.

Your policeman friend may have a point -- I have read that Moslems in Europe are leaving Islam at the rate of 2000/day. But his assimilation can only work if further Moslem immigration is halted, giving European culture and society time to "digest" those already there. As it is, the continued massive Moslem immigration is flooding Europe with new militants faster than the seductions of Western ways can integrate them.

You wrote - "the power of the Muslims to police themselves [within non-Muslim societies] and attack apostates."

That is why campaigns like the Barnabas Fund has been running - the last one involved raising awareness (among our politicians) of the apostasy law of Islam, and the current one is a petition called 'Proclaim Freedom' which draws attention to the lack of religious freedom in many countries (and the vast majority of the offenders are Islamic countries), are so important.

Churches and other bodies - hey, even the Atheists and Agnostics Society - need to *know* the risks that Muslims run when they leave the Mohammedan Mob and embrace another faith, or no faith (as Ibn Warraq and Ayaan Hirsi Ali have done). They need to be 'on the ball' to provide protection for these fugitives from the Mob, and to *demand* that serious protection be provided by law enforcement.

*Any* Muslim or group of Muslims, within the non-Muslim world, who is caught advocating the execution of 'blasphemers' or of apostates, or threatening it or attempting it or - worse - carrying it out, has to be heavily punished...and, ideally, deported to dar al Islam, never to be permitted to return. Same deal for anyone advocating/ attempting/ practising forced and/ or child marriage, or FGM, or 'honor' murders of uppity women.

Make it clear that if a Muslim girl wants to leave the Mob, apostasise, and marry a non-Muslim, then she will be *safe*; that she will be *protected*.

It's got to be made easier and safer for people, within the West, to publicly leave Islam. That means our police, our women's shelters, our schools, our churches and other religious and cultural/ intellectual bodies, need to *know* about the apostasy law of Islam, and how powerfully entrenched it is, such that someone ven an apparently lax semi-observant 'westernised' Muslim family, may find him or herself in mortal and immediate peril the moment he or she announces their apostasy.

Let's try to get it through people's heads that **the Ummah is like the mafia or any other seriously dangerous criminal gang** - you're not allowed to leave it except in a box. If more people knew *that*, I think we'd also get somewhat fewer idiots *converting* to Islam...

I have had similar conversations with people who believe that the effects of Islam will not be as strong on subsequent generations of migrants if we just stop criticising Islam. I am not convinced of that argument.

As much as I do NOT want it to happen, I think there will most likely be civil wars in the future in Europe, starting in France somewhere like Marseilles which is currently 35% muslim.

"eventually Muslims in the West would see how much better Western ways were and become "less Muslim""

The problem with assumptions such as the above is that, the data to back such things simply does not exist.

Let us assume for a second, the above were true, than at least some of the following would have to be true:

1. Muslim minorities in some significant yet non-muslim country would have become more peaceful over time.

But, such examples do not exist. Even amongst peaceful Buddhist populations, Muslims over generations have not given up their aggressiveness or their habitual criminal behavior. Examples of Thailand and Burma, demonstrate this.

2. Second or third generation Muslims from Pakistan in the UK (and similarly in other countries) would be less aggressive and less prone to crime and violence.

But, at least from whatever little I have seen and read, this is not true in the UK - with second and third generation Pakistani Muslims, being far more violent and aggressive

3. The overall population growth of Muslims, through birth-rates and immigration would be dented significantly by conversions and reduced birth rates.

This again is not true. even at 3% or 4% birth rates amongst Muslims and reasonable immigration rates, Muslim population growth in the UK far exceeds the 100,000 or so who may (at most) convert any year [although, I think the 100,000 per year for the UK is too high].

So, what is the basis for such assumptions - other than rancid political correctness.

Read G K Chesterton.

http://www.worldinvisible.com/library/chesterton/everlasting/part2c6.htm

And: I know plenty of English people - some of them post here, some post elsewhere - who are certainly not throwing in the towel.

For example:

http://lawandfreedomfoundation.org/

(Put a donation in their tip jar and help Stop a Mosque).

So if folk like them are refusing to despair or submit, and steadfastly putting up a fight, what qualifies *you* to look down your nose at them from outside, and prematurely write the epitaph of the Three Kingdoms?

......may I add here that they are very skillful at "lawfare" against anything in our America which these Muslims here already perceive to be potentially anti-Muslim......keep an eye on the progress for/against that mega-mosque planned in Middle Tennessee in anticipation of further Muslim growth there.....in our "Bible Belt"....

These Muslims are a burrowing, infiltrating formidable enemy....we Americans have yet to wake up to that fact.

I'm interested in putting out your leaflets, Davegreybeard. Robert has my email addy if you want to make contact.

Back to the topic of the article, I do commiserate with Tommy, Kevin, Paul & their concerned loved ones. . . However, I am optimistic for the future despite the fact that these heros are bearing their crosses at the present moment. The law is on our side, and we shall prevail.

Jim, please email Robert Spencer director@jihadwatch.org and let him know that we would like to exchange email addresses. I did this, and Robert replied back to me that he can no longer see poster’s email addresses. He said would facilitate our contact if you emailed him.

The idea behind the leaflet is that it should be only one, double sided page, so that it can be easily carried and distributed. It conveys as much information as possible about the life of Muhammad (murders, assassinations, rapes, lies, etc) with all facts taken DIRECTLY from The Quran, the Hadith of Sahih Bukari and Sahih Muslim and the “Sirat Rasul Allah”. (These information sources are noted at the beginning of the leaflet) I have worked on this piece, on and off, for about two years or so, tweaking, revising, etc. to try and make it as effective as possible. (Amazing how much time it takes when you have a lot of information, to fit in a limited space)

I look forward to hearing from you – but you must email Robert to make that connection.
Dave

I have to admit I have been absolutely stunned by this. I had thought I was pretty knowledgeable about dhimmitude in the UK, but I have to confess I had *no idea* that Britain was as far down this road as they clearly are. This is *terrifying*.

Chris wrote:

I once had a conversation with a now-retired policeman which may explain the attitude. I should say though that what he said was his own opinion and I have no idea of how widely held it was.

I asked him about Islamic terrorism, and he told me that yes, Islamic terrorism was a problem - and at the moment many Muslims were influenced by it. However he thought that eventually Muslims in the West would see how much better Western ways were and become "less Muslim"...
........................

A *lot* of clueless Westerners believe this. You hear the absurd assertion all the time that there is a moderate "American Islam"—whereas, the only reason Muslims in America are somewhat less Jihad-minded is because they are still a small percentage of the population—although, this is changing fast even as we speak.

But even if your policeman friend *were* correct, it would be completely unconscionable to so grotesquely violate the rights of peaceful protesters like Tommy Robinson.

That he—and those like him—are so deeply in denial makes this all the worse. They are not only violating the rights of these good British citizens, they are preventing anyone from raising the alarm about supremacist Muslims.

Madness, and suicidal madness.

I'm wearing my Poppy with pride today, in solidarity with Tommy who leapt over the barriers to confront the poppyburners, and in Rememberance of them Good Old Boys & Girls who stood for Freedom.

solidarity with Tommy who leapt over the barriers to confront the poppy burners

Lucky cool heads prevailed, that irresponsible action of jumping the barriers could quite easily have kicked off a small riot. Not the sort of thing you want on remembrance day.

You write: " that irresponsible action of jumping the barriers could quite easily have kicked off a small riot".

A small riot by *whom*, pray?

By the members of the Religion of Perpetual Outrage, who only last month carried out a near-riot in the centre of Sydney, complete with the black flag of jihad waving arrogantly and threateningly all over the place, and a massed threat display (bums in the air, noses to the ground) in Hyde Park, and cute lil kids and sweet hijabettes holding up signs saying 'Behead Those who Insult Islam!' "Behead those who Insult the Prophet!', and who were prevented from running amok only by a concerted display of overwhelming force by the kuffar police?

What Tommy Robinson did, pulling down the black flag of Jihad, was a *good* thing, because it was profoundly non-dhimmi.

That ugly black rag with the white squiggles on it deserves no more respect from those whom the Mohammedans fully intend to force-'convert', enslave or exterminate, than the Swastika got during WWII from those who were on the receiving end of Third Reich aggression.

And I think that *burning* the black flag of Jihad - which is an act *no different* from burning a Swastika banner - is a good thing for Infidels to do, from time to time, just to let the Mohammedans know that we defy the Jihad and do not intend to be Subdued.

This report, by a very sensible and sober person, states that the black flag of Jihad was burnt, in London.

http://www.newenglishreview.org/blog_direct_link.cfm/blog_id/44648
Saturday, 27 October 2012
Whatever happened to Free Speech? Cf UAF in Walthamstow and EDL in Westminster -

She states plainly that ". The black flag of jihad was burnt."

And why should it not be burnt?

And the Caliphate flag - which declares an intention of subjecting all of humanity to the hideousness of life under Sharia - ought to be burnt, too, somewhere, and the videos put up on youtube.

And come the Fifth of November, I'd be delighted to see videos appearing in which Osama Bin Laden's be-turbanned effigy, and the effigies of assorted other vile jihad gang bosses, both living and deceased, were seen in the ceremonial bonfire, burning merrily back-to-back with the traditional effigy of 'the Guy'.

Bottom line: keepiing our heads down and not lifting a finger or letting out a peep,..in case the Mohammedans start a riot! ... is...dhimmitude.

First, the article by Esmerelda Weatherwax is great, as you must know she has written quite a lot of great and informative articles here, it is always a pleasure to read her stuff.

You fail to see my logic.

Lucky cool heads prevailed, that irresponsible action of jumping the barriers could quite easily have kicked off a small riot. Not the sort of thing you want on remembrance day.

He will win who knows when to fight and when not to fight. Sun Tzu

On the day this happened, the muslims where greatly outnumbered, so they would not have kicked off, the chances where other EDL members could have followed Robinsons lead. There was no need for Robinson to jump the fence. The police had the muslims under control and the MSM where photographing the disgraceful poppy burning. Robinsons actions where a distraction from the event of the poppy burning. Had a riot broken out, EDL would have been blamed regardless.

More Sun Tzu

There are five dangerous faults which may affect a general:
Here are three which Robinson is guilty of
Recklessness, which leads to destruction;
a hasty temper, which can be provoked by insults;
a delicacy of honor which is sensitive to shame;

These are three of the besetting sins of a general, ruinous to the conduct of war.

When an army is overthrown and its leader slain, the cause will surely be found among these five dangerous faults. Let them be a subject of meditation.