Dead child cradled by Egypt’s PM was killed by Hamas

Pallywood and its spin machine are working furiously these days, with the willing cooperation of the mainstream media: “Dead child cradled by Egypt’s PM was killed by Hamas!,” from Elder of Ziyon, November 17 (thanks to Inexion):

The Mirror (UK) on Friday published this, as did many other newspapers:

Egypt’s Prime Minister wept today as he kissed the forehead of a boy killed in an Israeli airstrike on Gaza.

And here is how CNN reported the child’s death:

CNN takes it as a given that young Mahmoud Sadallah (Sadhala) was killed by an Israeli airstrike.

Only one problem: he was killed by a Hamas rocket that fell short in Gaza.

There is a lot of evidence for this. Read the New York Times’ account of his death:

The Abu Wardah family woke up on Friday morning to word that a hudna “”
Arabic for cease-fire “” had been declared during the three-hour visit of
the Egyptian prime minister to this embattled territory. So, after two
days of huddling indoors to avoid intensifying Israeli air assaults,
Abed Abu Wardah, the patriarch, went to the market to buy fruits and
vegetables. His 22-year-old son, Aiman, took an empty blue canister to
be refilled with cooking gas. The younger children of their
neighborhood, Annazla, in this town north of Gaza City went out to the
dirt alley to kick a soccer ball.

But around 9:45 a.m., family members and neighbors said, an explosion
struck a doorway near the Abu Wardah home, killing Aiman Abu Wardah as
he returned from his errand, as well as Mahmoud Sadallah, 4, who lived
next door and had refused his older cousin’s pleas to stay indoors.

It is unclear who was responsible for the strike on Annazla: the damage
was nowhere near severe enough to have come from an Israeli F-16, raising the possibility that an errant missile fired by Palestinian militants was responsible for the deaths. What seems clear is that expectations for a pause in the fighting, for at least one family, were tragically misplaced.

The IDF did not launch any airstrikes in Gaza while Egyptian PM Kandil was in Gaza.

Read it all.

Hamas to Israelis: "We've missed the suicide attacks. Expect us soon at bus stations and in cafés"
Savagery thwarted: Iron Dome intercepts jihad rockets over Tel Aviv
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Comments

  1. says

    The boy was murdered by the psychotic hatred of the Jews, not by anything else. When this bizarre hatred is replaced by the desire for peace, no more children need die because of Islam’s hard-wired hatred of the Jews.

    It’s as simple as that!

  2. says

    Dogs of War

    The Israeli Defense Forces are to be commended for their accuracy and concern with minimizing civilian casualties.

    However, that begs the question: in an all-out war for survival, there will be civilian deaths and atrocities. In fact, there may be actions which we would officially consider to be war crimes: mass movements of populations, and multiple civilian casualties.

    Israel is in a fight for its survival. The strategy of the Islamists is to maintain a series of pinprick probes which make it impossible for a civilized society to function in security. The threat to Israel is not simply from the Gaza strip, which is bad enough, but from Hezbollah in the north, in Lebanon, which has also amassed tens of thousands of rockets. They are simply waiting for an opportune time. If Israel becomes embroiled in the Gaza strip, and Egypt becomes involved, Hezbollah may decide it’s time for a major attack on northern Israel.

    At that point, Israel’s neighbor, Jordan, still an Islamic state despite the western appearance of is rulers, might decide to join in the attack. They did in 1967. Iran may or may not become involved. My guess is that they won’t, for that might trigger a US attack, which would actually be focused on cleaning out the Iranian nuclear facilities. The Iranians are laying low until they actually complete a nuclear weapon.

    So, any sign of weakness on the part of Israel immediately becomes an existential threat. I would say that in such a circumstance, with a three-front war and Egyptian involvement, Israel should clean out the Gaza strip altogether, and move the population into Egypt. This would be considered a war crime, but essential to Israel’s continued survival and well-being.

    The fact is, the concept of a just war, and war crimes, were developed without regard for the reality that such actions might be necessary for the survival of a country and community.

    There still should be the concept of war crimes, but it should apply to such actions as the Rape of Nanking, where a major part of the civilian population was slaughtered after surrender to the Japanese forces, for no other reason than to intimidate the rest of China. This was gratuitous slaughter, not related in the least to any military action or need for survival. Another example might be the relocation of the Cherokee nation in the 1830’s, which was done for commercial reasons. The Cherokees were peaceful and prosperous. The US simply wanted their lands.

  3. says

    Dead child cradled by Egypt’s PM was killed by Hamas

    “Small boy caught in Mideast crossfire”
    …………………………

    I hate the murderous, cynical Muslims and the enabling Western press. The clueless populace eager to believe this meretricious manipulation is not blameless, either.

    Generally, I am a pretty optimistic person, but this is both appalling and all too predictable.

    It was Islamic Jihad that killed that little boy, just as much as if he’d been a Jewish child.

  4. says

    “When Hamas launch rockets from beside a pram with a baby in it – as they do – they know that the Israelis have two options: they must either allow the rocket-launcher to remain in place to fire more rockets into Israel, or they must hit the site and risk killing the baby. For Israel these are two terrible options. For Hamas it is a win-win. If the Israelis do not strike, then Hamas can fire more rockets at Israel. If they do hit, then Hamas have another dead child they can hold up for the cameras and weep fake tears for. Hamas know that these pictures will travel round the globe and bring the anger of much of the civilized world against Israel. For Hamas, the child is worth it, for the child is a tool of their war.” Douglas Murray

  5. says

    More/same:

    “Comment is Free’ contributor: Israeli leaders murder Palestinian children to score electoral points

    Up to 37,000 people (mostly civilians) have been killed in the Syrian civil war since an uprising against President Bashar al-Assad’s regime erupted 20 months ago.

    During the Libyan Civil War, roughly 15,000 were killed.

    At least 846 Egyptians (mostly civilians) were killed during the Egyptian revolution – the 3 week uprising which toppled Hosni Mubarak. Many were killed by police forces “shooting protesters in the head and chest with live ammunition.”

    Around 219 were killed during street protests in Tunisia.

    The death toll thus far in operation “Pillar of Defense’ has been 40 Gazans and 3 Israelis.

    But, guess which country Egyptian “Comment is Free’ contributor Ahdaf Soueif demonizes as vicious killers of Arabs?

    In “Gaza is no longer alone”, Soueif not only advances the insidious narrative that Israel’s operation “Pillar of Defense’ was launched by Netanyahu to win an election (a meme parroted by Guardian journalists Harriet Sherwood and Simon Tisdall) but characterizes the conflict as a “killing spree” inspired by Zionist blood lust.

    Soueif writes the following, in a post which was highlighted at the Guardian’s “live blog’ on the conflict:

    “Israel has always sold itself to the west as a democracy in a sea of fanaticism. The Arab spring has undermined that narrative, possibly fatally. So Israeli politicians have been pushing hard for a war against Iran and, in the interim, they’ve gone on a killing spree in Gaza.

    If they had wanted to instigate violence against themselves they could not have done better than to assassinate Ahmed al-Jaabari, the Hamas commander who’s prevented attacks on Israelis for the past five years. With his killing they’ve raised the probability of these attacks resuming, as is happening now. They can then try to hijack the narrative of the Arab spring and wind the clock back to “Islamist terrorists v civilised Israelis”. Meanwhile, they take the heat off Bashar al-Assad’s murderous activities in Syria – and, of course, score hawkish points for Binyamin Netanyahu and Ehud Barak before the coming elections.

    But they have served to remind the world that Israel is a democracy where politicians may order the murder of children to score electoral points. [emphasis added]

    So, for Soueif, murdering Palestinian children is quite popular among the Jewish electorate.

    The enormity of this smear – a staggering moral inversion which evidently was unchallenged by Guardian editors – is difficult to even fathom.

    Speeches which literally call for the murder of “every last Jew on earth” have been made by Hamas leaders and other leading Islamist figures – calls for genocide which can be found on several reputable websites.

    And, such extreme, homicidal antisemitism isn’t confined to Palestinian leadership, as suicide bombing, for instance, against Israeli civilians remains disturbingly popular among the Palestinian electorate.

    In fact, after Palestinian terrorists from the West Bank butchered five members of the Fogel family in 2011 – brutally stabbing to death parents Udi and Ruth and their children aged 11, 4 and 3 months – there was celebrating on the streets of Gaza.

    source: http://cifwatch.com/2012/11/17/comment-is-free-contributor-israeli-leaders-murder-palestinian-children-to-score-electoral-points/

    (be sure to read the whole article, and check out the sources that are linked)

  6. says

    Q: Why do the (Left) Media so readily side with Hamas against Israel?
    A: The Left, Hamas, Islam and the Media are all under the control of Hell.
    You may think that is a bit histrionic. Well let me remind you that visitors to such places as Dachau and Auschwitz and similar, have told of how they felt they were in the presence of some terrible evil. Do we not feel the same when we hear of a muslim mother who pours acid over her daughter?
    And the blindness of the Media? 12,000 rockets in past decade fired from Gaza into Israel and Israel responds and Israel is the bad guy, as always.
    For me, this all has the stink of Hell about it.

  7. says

    The Guardian Teacher Network is a site dedicated to helping UK teachers find jobs, focus on a career path and gain resources and ideas to assist in their overall professional development. They even have suggested lesson plans, sample tests and other classroom aids to help teaching professionals with day-to-day challenges.

    Here’s an entry, written by Emily Drabble (a contributing editor to the Guardian teachers network), to help teachers explain to their students the current conflict in Gaza … which is followed by quite a few “helpful’ links:

    Israel’s assassination of Hamas’ top military commander this week has triggered fears of a whole new surge of violence in Gaza and the Middle East. The Israeli air strike on the Ahmed al-Jabari’s car – which also killed a six-year-old girl and an 11-month old baby – was just the first step in a new Israeli military operation to eliminate militants and weapon sites in the Gaza Strip.

    Ground troops could follow and Hamas’ armed wing warned that Jabari’s assassination “had opened the gates of hell”. At the time of writing this round-up a rocket strike on southern Israel had killed three people.

    In this links bucket we pick out the best news stories, interactives, videos, websites and teaching resources that will help you deal with the issues in class.

    Drabble’s contention that the Israeli strike on Jabari “also killed a six-year-old girl and an 11-month old baby” is not correct. The specific strike on Nov. 14 she’s referring to killed only Jabari and his bodyguard, even according to reports by Hamas. Drabble is conflating the strike against Drabble with another attack that day which, at least per the Hamas-run Health Ministry in Gaza, resulted in the deaths of a six year old and a baby.

    Finally, note that the strap line for the teacher’s blog post reads as follows:

    With fears of fresh conflict in Gaza after the assassination of Ahmed a-Jabari, we uncover the best news, teaching resources and websites to help you explain the issues to your students

    Not only does the Guardian continually feed their adult readers false information about Israel and the Palestinians, they also inculcate children with such ideologically driven, and often ahistorical, “news” on the Middle East.

    Please consider emailing the Guardian’s readers’ editor, Chris Elliott, at reader@guardian.co.uk to seek a correction.

    source: http://cifwatch.com/2012/11/18/the-guardian-preaches-propaganda-about-gaza-war-to-teaching-professionals/

    (be sure to read the whole article)

  8. says

    More here, h/t to Pam Geller & Atlas Shrugs:

    http://atlasshrugs2000.typepad.com/atlas_shrugs/2012/11/cue-the-dead-baby.html

    Bloggers Spot More Dead Child Fakery by Hamas; CNN Fooled (thanks to Dan F)

    (Breitbart) – Hamas has once again apparently been caught faking an image of a dead Palestinian child–this time using a child likely killed by its own rocket fire and claiming that an Israeli attack was responsible. CNN’s Sara Sidner ran a full report on the child’s death, strongly implying that an Israeli bomb had been responsible.

    The dead child was paraded before the cameras during the visit of Egyptian prime minister Hisham Kandil, who kissed the dead child in the presence of Hamas prime minister Ismail Haniyeh. But even the New York Times was suspicious.

    Bloggers such as Elder of Ziyon quickly pieced together the evidence of Hamas fakery:

    The IDF did not launch any airstrikes in Gaza while Egyptian PM Kandil was in Gaza…

    If it was an Israeli missile, you can be sure that it would have been shown to the media! Furthermore, PCHR, which is keeping track of everyone killed in Gaza (and which admits that most of the dead have been “militants,”) did not list Mahmoud Sadallah or Aiman Aby Wardah in their list of victims of Israeli airstrikes, although they even include one person who died of a heart attack.

    Put this together with the fact that Hamas and other terror groups were firing rockets throughout Friday morning while the IDF did not, plus the fact that over 100 rockets have fallen short in Gaza (both using past performance and IDF statistics as proof), and the fact that the shrapnel in the video matches almost exactly the shrapnel damage we have seen from rocket fire into Israel, and it is very clear: this child was killed by Gaza rocket fire, not by Israel.

    Hamas has a well-established pattern of faking civilian deaths in Gaza, even as it seeks civilian deaths in Israel (and fakes that, too, pretending it is firing at military targets). Last week, Breitbart News caught Hamas using a month-old photo of a dead Syrian boy and claiming he had been killed by Israel–a double irony, since the Assad regime that killed the boy hosted Hamas for years before the outbreak of the Syrian civil war.

    The international community has reinforced Hamas’s pattern of fakery by applying a double standard to Palestinian civilians killed by Israel and Palestinian civilians killed by Hamas. When Israeli artillery inadvertently killed civilians in Beit Hanoun in 2006, the world sprang into action with accusations of “war crime”; when errant Palestinian rockets have struck civilians in Beit Hanoun, the world has said nothing at all.

  9. says

    One more for the road, h/t to American Thinker:

    Bias by the Numbers

    Pick up the Sunday, Nov. 18 edition of the Washington Post and you’ll find a lengthy, front-page wrap-up about Israel’s antiterrorist counteroffensive in Gaza — with three perfect examples of pro-Palestinian, anti-Israel bias. all within eight paragraphs of each other …

    Brulliard and Hauslohner devote half a dozen paragraphs to a heart-tugging, up-close and personal account of two Gaza teachers awakened by the family’s windows shattering and their walls bursting open. The house next door, which belonged to a Hamas commander, sustained a direct hit. One of the teachers “frantically dug his five children out of the rubble.” The other teacher “rushed from room to room, crying and gathering her children’s clothing, school bags and dolls.” The Post quotes her as saying again and again, “Where are we going to go? The Israelis are responsible. They are the enemy of God. What did we do? Did we carry any missiles? Did we launch any rockets?” All very poignant. But what about similar scenes in Israel, where Hamas rockets by the hundreds have been pounding civilian targets from Ashkelon, Ashdod, and Netivot to the proximity of Tel Aviv and Jerusalem? Do Brulliard and Hauslohner devote as much space to cameos of Israelis, especially children, suffering from shock and post-traumatic stress? Does their suffering also rate half a dozen paragraphs of sympathetic coverage? If not six paragraphs, how about three… or maybe just one paragraph? Or a single despairing quote? But in the entire Post article, there isn’t a single sentence depicting Israelis frantically rushing to shelters as sirens blare at any time of day — or the traumas left in their wake. Nothing, nada.

    Read more: http://www.americanthinker.com/blog/2012/11/bias_by_the_numbers.html#ixzz2Cc6YzECW

  10. says

    Notwithstanding Hamas’ strenuous efforts to peg their collateral damage attacks on the IDF, there are still cases like this:

    http://www.haaretz.com/as-idf-strike-kills-entire-family-in-gaza-israel-is-starting-to-get-in-trouble-1.478879

    Not that this is from the ISRAELI press. And conspiracy-mongering about ‘Pallywood’ is laughable. If anything, the coverage in the U.S. mainstream press is slavishly pro-Israel, with even the Israeli press running critical coverage of Israeli policies that the U.S. press won’t touch:

    http://www.haaretz.com/news/diplomacy-defense/former-u-s-officials-say-cia-considers-israel-to-be-mideast-s-biggest-spy-threat-1.454189

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/mj-rosenberg/suppression-the-israeli-g_b_1457189.html

    While rightfully criticizing Islamic terrorism and the many very negative aspects of Islamic culture, the people on this site are also turning a blind eye to other issues. First of all, ignoring the demographic reality that Gaza/Palestine are majority-Arab areas, that self-identify as ‘Palestinian.’ This is the accepted ethnonym among 99% of the world, INCLUDING Israel. Israel is a majority JEWISH country, which has not been particularly tolerant of Christians in the region:

    http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2012/09/09/vatican-official-blasts-extremists-in-israel-after-monastery-attack.html

    http://972mag.com/israels-not-so-stellar-record-on-treatment-of-christians/43325/

    http://mondoweiss.net/2012/03/the-myth-of-israels-favorable-treatment-of-palestinian-christians.html

    As a Christian (Roman Catholic), why should I support Israel? There is no such thing as ‘Judeo-Christian’ civilization. Israel is an avowedly JEWISH state, and the West has a majority CHRISTIAN population. Aside from a tiny (~5M) Jewish population that mostly votes Democrat, and a lunatic fringe of millenarian Evangelicals, there is no deep-rooted support in America for Israel. Israel has no strategic importance to the West–no natural resources, an economy largely dependent on foreign investment (e.g., that Intel plant, that the Haredim hate), and a military that can NOT survive with massive foreign aid and arms sales.

    And America is NOT going to get dragged into another war in the Middle East, having just come out of Dubya’s trillion-dollar misadventure in Iraq, with over 4,000 U.S. soldiers dead. America’s Federal budget is swimming in red ink, and the economy is too fragile to survive another Arab oil embargo. In terms of foreign policy, the narco-war in Mexico is far higher on the list of priorities than Israel. If an all-out regional war breaks out between Israel and its neighbors, they are on their own. And this is not 1973. Egypt and other regional powers have vastly improved militaries, as well as the donations and volunteer cannon fodder of countries from Saudi Arabia to Malaysia at their disposal.

    In the short term, taking out the rocket batteries is an appropriate response by the IDF. But a long term security strategy for Israel will need to involve things that the Netanyahu government finds unpalatable. There needs to be a marginalization of the Haredi element, dismantling the settlements (and, on the Palestinian side, withdrawing ‘right of return’), Palestinian statehood, AND an international (KFOR-type) robust peacekeeping force in Palestine, as it transitions to a secular democracy. While some nutbars here are advocating scorched-earth policies and ethnic cleansing of Gaza (something that is a jailable offense in most Western democracies), the international community–INCLUDING the United States–would not tolerate this. Nor would Israel’s conscript army have the stomach to carry such a policy out. The Israelis made a mistake by electing a hawk, and this reality is sinking in:

    http://www.nytimes.com/2012/11/17/opinion/hope-for-a-peaceful-israel-dwindles.html?_r=2&

    http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/headlines/2012/11/israels-netanyahu-takes-heat-after-obama-victory/

  11. says

    The ultimate responsibility for the death of this innocent child lies squarely in the hands of those adults who have numerously instigated Israel leaving her no choice but to defend herself.
    There is no question that what is responsible for elevating the grievance of the “palestinians” from the ordinary to their blinding insane rage is their mohammedan indoctrination.

    It is a hard thing to accept that despite all the best and reasonable efforts you make to live in peace with some, there are those who in the end will never seek the same . This has been the stark, harsh , unmitigated, scientific reality which we as Westerners deny and seem incapable of accepting.

    So what’s left? No more begging for peace. Do the zombies a favor and wake the few you can with a whopping dose of BOOM. Make them pay for every life they have taken. Start with 10 square miles for every irreplaceable soul they have murdered. There is no future in Jerusalem for those who love death more than life. For that matter, the same truth hold’s for America.

    islam is the enemy, it is at war with America, I’m at war with isalm.

  12. says

    CNN criminals. English media criminals. The lies they disseminated worldwide about “the Serbs killing Bosnian Muslim civilians” at Markale market and at a bread queue in Sarajevo, whipping up hate toward the entire Serb people. Now, it is known as a fact in both incidents those civilians were killed by Bosnian Muslim mortars. But no retractions, let alone apologies from our cowarly Western media criminals. And the lies about 200,000 (250,000, 300,000, and so on) Muslims killed by “the Serbs”. Now, even some of those media liars admit “all those figures were made up at press conferences”. And a lot worse on Kosovo: ALL 100% allegations of “Serb atrocities in Kosovo” were bold-faced lies by the genocidal Kosovar Albanian KLA terrorists, the Western democracies and the Western media. And how many times had our abominable media played that infamous Palliwood video of “the little Muhammad al-Durrah huddled behind the barrel with his Dad before he was killed”? How many times? More than they played the “beating of Rodney King” video, that’s for sure. And the lies by the English media about “Jeningrad” in Jenin in April 2002, about “6,000 Palestinian ciilians killed by the Israelis”. And after this evil anti-Jewish hate hysteria had already done great damage globally, the facts emerge: 54 Palestinians killed n Jenin, all but 2 of them genocidal Islamic Jihad terrorists. And 109 hard-core Islamic Jihad terrorists captured. The Balkans or the West Bank,or Lebanon, our cowardly American, English, Norwegian, Swedish and other Western media Goebbelses are consistent: aiding and abetting Islamic jihadis everywhere. To keep their own asses alive. To be personally safe every time they visit a terrorist country, be it Pakistan or Gaza. The evil those criminals do around the world out of base, primitive, physical cowardice. A Nuremberg trial is in order to hold them accountable for actively aiding the genocidal Global Jihad.

    Ruslan Tokhchukov, EnragedSince1999.

  13. says

    “Do the zombies a favor and wake the few you can with a whopping dose of BOOM. Make them pay for every life they have taken. Start with 10 square miles for every irreplaceable soul they have murdered.”

    @Wakingwest,

    Advocating ethnic cleansing is illegal in most countries. And collective punishment is illegal, under international law. Your venom is just the mirror of the Islamist crazies who want to push Israeli Jews into the sea.

    Since the Rabin assassination, no Israeli government has been serious about any sort of peace deal, or Palestinian statehood. This is actually the opposite of what most Israelis want. The big stumbling block is Israel’s proportional representation voting, which ensures shaky coalitions propped up by fringe parties like Shas. Israel needs to dump its PR system, which is fracturing the country. Note that the ultra-orthodox loonies not only dodge conscription, but many are ANTI-ZIONIST (they consider the Israeli state to be illegitimate). Unless the settlements are dismantled AND Palestinian right of return is off the table, peace is impossible.

    Bibi really f&%#ed up. He made a big mistake, by shamelessly bashing Obama during the U.S. campaign (backing birthers, and whatnot). He allowed Mossad to continue spying on the U.S. And he gambled with allowing more settlement construction, basically thumbing his nose at the U.S. And there are no longer the Realpolitik-practicing Mubarak government in Egypt, or Kemalists in Turkey. Like all gambling, this finally is catching up with him. The problem is that the Israeli population has to live with the fallout.

    Western Christians have zero interest in Israel. This is, first and foremost, NOT a Christian country, and Israel’s treatment of the Christian Palestinian minority (or even Christian clergy) has been appalling–not as harsh as Muslim behavior, but hardly the love fest that Israeli apologists make it out to be. Israel has no natural resources. Most Americans really would rather leave Israel to fight its neighbors than see an Arab oil embargo inflate fuel prices, and wreck the economy. Not to mention the fact that there is ZERO appetite in America for another war in some Middle East sandpile. People like yourself may live in delusion that Israeli and Western interests are joined at the hip, but most of us aren’t drinking that Kool-Aid.

  14. says

    “The lies they disseminated worldwide about “the Serbs killing Bosnian Muslim civilians” at Markale market…”

    @Engagedsince1999,

    Your handle speaks volumes. The only people who denied Serbian atrocities against civilians were crusty old commies and Slavophiles, like Michael Parenti. The slaughter of Bosniaks was forensically documented, as were the rapes and ethnic cleansing in Kosovo. Yes, there is plenty to criticize about Islam. But it’s pathetic, really, when people become so ideologically blinded that they won’t admit that atrocities occurred. Thus, we have the commies who deny that millions starved in Ukraine, Islamists who deny that the Holocaust happened, and people like yourself.

    As someone once said, keeping track of atrocities isn’t a matter of double-column book keeping. And one shouldn’t ignore the crimes practiced by one’s own ‘side.’ I’m Roman Catholic, but won’t deny the crimes committed by the IRA, Croatian paramilitaries in the Medak Pocket, Catholic participation in the execution of the Holocaust, or child-raping priests. A little even-handedness here, please. To their great credit, the Israeli press has done an excellent job of balanced coverage.

  15. says

    @duh_swami,

    I am not a fan of ‘hate speech’ laws, but they are a reality in most of the world. And these sorts of comments are still up, in some archived Jihad Watch posts. At any rate, advocating the expulsion of a group from a territory–as is repeatedly done here–is morally reprehensible, and not the answer to any military, or terrorist provocation.

    And I don’t know why so many supposedly Christian conservatives idolize Ayn Rand. The woman was a bitter shrew and militant atheist, and her ‘objectivist’ ideology is 180 degrees out of sync with Christian values. Objectivism is a foul ideology that belongs in the 20th Century dung heap, along with communism and fascism. You cannot be an ‘objectivist’ and a Christian, any more than you can be a Marxist and a Christian.

    “Israel has recently discovered HUGE deposits of oil and natural gas…”

    So why is Israel importing fuel from its neighbors? Israel imports virtually all of its oil and gas, and 90% of this is Caspian oil. While Azerbaijan (a Shi’a Muslim country) has excellent relations with Israel, Iran (Azerbaijan’s enemy) most certainly does not, and this oil flow still must pass through Turkish-controlled transit points. Israeli-Turkish relations have deteriorated since the Gulenists took over the country. And, in such a volatile region, developing offshore reserves is just too risky for investors. People can daydream all they want, but the current reality is that Israel needs to import oil AND things like food, and its neighbors can easily choke supply lines off.

    And pro-Israeli commentators here are seriously misreading the public mood in America, as well as economic and geopolitical realities. If the Gulf States threaten another oil embargo, the United States and the rest of the West (including oil-exporting Canada) WILL capitulate, with popular support. Even the Harper Conservative government in Canada has tempered its usually very pro-Israeli statements. The economies here are very shaky, and cannot withstand the shock of massive increases in oil prices. Neither would any politician in the United States commit political suicide by involving America in another costly and bloody war in the Middle East. Israel is very low on the list of international priorities, especially with Mexico teetering on the brink of failed statehood. Now THAT’S something that keeps the State Department and most Americans up at night.

    My point, here, is that Israel can no longer count on unconditional support from the United States, nor anything more than moral support–especially if this conflict blows up into an all-out regional (Egypt, Iran) war. Unlike the Yom Kippur War era, the regional powers are no longer secularists (Ba’athists, Kemalist Turkey), Egypt’s military capability is vastly improved, and there is a number of quite wealthy Islamic states (Saudi Arabia, Malaysia) that would provide materiel and warm bodies for some sort of anti-Israeli jihad. This is not a militarily solvable conflict, and Israel needs to look at other options.

    As for Roman Catholicism, there is no unconditional support for Israel, from the Vatican, and the Holy See supports a two-state solution:

    http://www.jpost.com/International/Article.aspx?id=223517

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holy_See_attitude_towards_the_Arab-Israeli_peace_process

    http://catholicknight.blogspot.ca/2011/05/israeli-palestinian-conflict.html

  16. says

    “I’ve never seen any calls for genocide or ethnic cleansing in any Jihad Watch comments.”

    http://www.jihadwatch.org/2012/11/savagery-thwarted-iron-dome-intercepts-jihad-rockets-over-tel-aviv.html

    “I now long to see Gaza leveled, its inhabitants resettled in Egypt, and its land repopulated with peaceful, creative, productive Israelis and Jews from the Diaspora.” — @mike_ryan

    That statement is actually completely illegal in most Western countries, and could result in prison time. Not to mention the moral implications of advocating the forced expulsion of an ethnic group. This is a population that has lived in the region for millenia.

    “As to his constant assertion that “Israel has no natural resources”…”

    Again, why Is Israel importing over 90% of its fuel, and most of its food, if it’s so self-sufficient?

    http://www.haaretz.com/print-edition/opinion/food-troubles-are-here-to-stay-1.245149

    “The United States has quite an abundance of natural resources, and is quite affluent.”

    The U.S. imports ~140,000bbl/a from OPEC countries. Remember that Venezuela, which is in the anti-Israel camp, is an OPEC country. And the U.S. economy is barely crawling out of a major recession, with huge Federal budget deficits. The situation in European countries is worse. The West is very vulnerable to oil price shock at this point, and OPEC countries WILL leverage this.

    “Israeli BRAINPOWER is their most valuable resource…”

    ‘Brainpower’ won’t gas up Merkavas and F-16s, or feed the country. And it won’t make up for the vastly larger armies it’s enemies can field, which would include volunteer jihadi cannon fodder from a host of Muslim countries.

    “Israel”with the same semi-arid climate as her Muslim neighbors”has *flourished*.”

    Most of Israel’s vaunted agricultural boom comes from water diverted from the Jordan–another point of contention with its neighbors. The fact of the matter is that the entire region is grossly overpopulated, in terms of what the local ecosystem can support, For example, Egypt needs to mnport 60% of its food.

    “Who do Americans overwhelmingly support?”

    Americans ‘support’ Israel in the most facile way: offering moral support, but unwilling to commit more billions in aid, or American troops to fight for that distant and really very unimportant country. And Americans won’t sacrifice their economy, or even a few more bucks at the pump, if OPEC threatens to turn off the taps. Israelis are on their own, if they decide to go down the road of a broader regional war.

  17. says

    @DDA,

    ‘There are intelligent de-dhimmified *Hindus*, in India, who support Israel; one sees them posting in the comments threads of English-language Israeli news outlets; and there has been something of an official-level rapprochement between Israel and India, in recent years; trade, business investment, that kind of thing’

    Indo-Israeli relations are more than that;

    1.In the 1999 kargil war,Israel’s weapon-locating radars helped India to soften-up the paki artillery on the higher reaches/hi-ground,along with the French emergency[spares] supplies for fighter-planes.this opened the flood-gates for israeli defence companies.now India is the 2nd largest importer of Israeli arms after China.

    2.both are working on Barak-NG anti-missile system,funded by India.

    3.India was preferred by Israel to launch its spy satellite,due to location & cost.

    4.Agricultural co-operation with Israel makes India’s Thar desert bloom,making farmers rich.
    Israel’s exprtise on irrigation techniques,droght-resistant crops etc help us to fight poverty & hunger also.In fact,many consider this as the cornrer-stone of our ties.

    5.there is collobaration in diamond cutting & polishing industry too.[out-sourcing from Israel,i suppose.]

    6.A 2 billion $ indian pharma firm,where i worked,bought an Israeli generic major Taro phamaceuticals.

    7.Israel army’s new recruits, after 2 years of training,come to Indian state of Himachal Pradesh for its cool climate & easy availability of hashish,a cheaper alternative to switzerland.

    8.during my high-school days i read on Israel’s offer to blast paki’s nuclear plants to PM Morarji Desai, who self-righteously spurned the offer.Gen,. zia-ul-huq honoured Desai with ‘Nishan-e-pakistan’meaning saviour of pakistan,its highest national award.
    no doubt,Chou-En-Lai called Nehru’s [era] indians
    as ‘useful idiots’. Morarji was one of them.

    9.diplomatic relations with Israel helped thousands of Indian chritians to undertake pilgrimage to the holy-land.

  18. says

    Look at the first picture again. The Egyption PM is not cradling the boy. If he is he has a thumb on the the wrong position on the hand. And has no black sleave on his suite jacket on the other arm.

    Look closely at the picture again.

    I don’t believe the boy was killed be the Israelis. I believe it is a show, for pittys sake. I believe the militants and their nieghbors are liars searching for public sympathy be clever use of the news media….

  19. says

    The relocation of the Cherokees, while wrong and very badly done, was not engaged in by the US to terminate the lives of the Cherokees but rather to remove them to other lands because the prevailing opinion then, RonaldB, was that whites and Indians simply could not live together. The Rape of Nanking was slaughter for slaughter’s sake, pure and simple. Therefore, equating these two is at best simplistic and at worst malicious.

  20. says

    “Therefore, equating these two is at best simplistic and at worst malicious.”

    Wellington, I was trying to define reasonable bounds of wartime behavior apropos to the survival of a country like Israel.

    The wholesale uprooting of a peaceful people, while clearly not as serious as the wholesale slaughter of Nanking, is nevertheless an unjustifiable government action. I am not equating the two, just by calling them both a war crime, than I would equate a burglary with a murder, just by calling both a felony.

    The fact is, should Israel engage in large movements of the Gaza population, there is no question whatsoever that Europe and the Islamic countries would join together in a very serious attempt to initiate a crippling boycott or embargo of Israel, similar to what was done with South Africa. The only thing blocking this will be the firm opposition of the United States.

    It will therefore be beneficial to refer to a code of ethical behavior which actually takes into account the survival of a country. The current assumption is that Israel must tolerate a hostile civilian population next to it that supports constant attacks against Israel. Is it not important to show that ethical conduct still exists, while not applying the standards of criminal judgement to wartime actions?

    These are real issues. The government of the US, under Clinton, bombed the Serbs for moving hostile Muslim populations, populations which had supported militia attacks against Serbian areas. The West will be its own worst enemy if we don’t use a reasonable standard by which to judge the conduct of countries.

  21. says

    Anyone reading through all your BS deserves the head ache they will get…
    I recommend readers not go to any web site recommended by a Mahoundian or sympathizer…Even the most innocent sounding often have bugs that jump…
    Finally…You are ill equipped to take on ‘Enraged’, your knowledge next to his pales by comparison…You need to do a little more inner struggle jihad before you try to take on adults…

  22. says

    It seems like every time ppl in the comments provide proof, chapter & verse, that what Robert Spencer has presented is true and accurate, some yahoo shows up to say “Ya, but …” & then try to change the subject, quickly, to something completely unrelated.

    Do you really think you are fooling anyone? Changing the subject is NOT an legitimate argument; it is running from one, one that you have lost, and you KNOW you have lost.

    Your red herrings, smoke screens, false analogies, and false equivolencies both sicken and sadden me. Isreal may not be a perfect country – nor is the USA – but both Israel & the USA are head & shoulders above the next in line. The difference bewteen good & evil is simple and easy to spot. Good ppl tell the truth. Evil ppl lie. Good ppl target combatents and avoid civilians. Evil ppl target civilins and name their streets, schools, and public buildings after suicide murders. The difference is as clear as night & day … except to those who are actively blowing smoke into the discussion.

    You say that, “Western Christians have zero interest in Israel. … Most Americans really would rather leave Israel to fight its neighbors than see an Arab oil embargo inflate fuel prices, and wreck the economy. Not to mention the fact that there is ZERO appetite in America for another war in some Middle East sandpile.”

    My reply is, “The spread of evil is the symptom of a vacuum. Whenever evil wins, it is only by default: by the moral failure of those who evade the fact that there can be no compromise on basic principles.” –Ayn Rand (1905 – 1982), Capitalism: The Unknown Ideal, 1966 (hat tip Atlas Shrugs)

    You say, “Since the Rabin assassination, no Israeli government has been serious about any sort of peace deal, or Palestinian statehood.”

    I say you are not just wrong, you are peeing on our shoes & telling us it’s rain:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MlgTkTEVcaQ&feature=player_embedded

    I could go on, but I think I have already made my point, that your arguments are as invalid as they are worthless. You are at best misguided, and at worst a sabatuer-provacatuer trying to whitewash the sick, twisted evil of Hamas and the Gaza Palestinians in a case that, according to the evidence, is open & shut … or would be, if the media treated both sides equally and fairly, instead of stacking the deck with false logic as you have done above.

    Ppl like you are a vexation on the soul, and a pebble in the shoe. You contribute nothing of worth, and are best removed and discarded as soon as conveniently possible.

    There is, however, one point on which you and I do agree. There are (and have been) a small but vocal minority in the comments that express their anger, indognation, and frustration thru calls for violence, genecide, and so on. They sicken me as well. If a person lowers themselves to the level of their adversary, they become that which they rail against. “We have seen the enemy, and he is us.” I have hesitated to post anything in these comments for over a year now, as I am uncomfortable sharing a common cause with such barbarians. Venting steam in such ways is the counter-jihad equivolent of shooting yourself in the foot, and I truly wish Robert Spencer and the other major contributors to these comment forums would stand up against suck opinions, whenever they are expressed. “Qui tacet consentire videtur” (He who is silent is understood to consent).

  23. says

    a small but vocal minority in the comments that express their anger, indognation, and frustration thru calls for violence, genecide, and so on.

    JW has a policy of removing such comments whenever they are noticed or someone alerts Robert…Regular posters here avoid such writing because they know this site is monitored by the enemies of freedom, who will hold Robert responsible for what appears here in spite of his disclaimer…If you read something like that, alert Robert through the contact link, and he will remove it…

  24. says

    I’ve never seen any calls for genocide or ethnic cleansing in any Jihad Watch comments. And I’ve been reading these for about 6 years now.

    This yahoo would have to cite at least 10 such comments to prove his point (since he claims that a “minority” of JW commenters do this, and there must be at least JW regulars), from 10 different nicknames, over a period of time — but not too long a period of time.

    Given the obtuseness of these yahoos, their proof must be rigorous. Recently, one of them characterized my advocacy of repatriation/deportation of Muslims as “ethnic cleansing”, and I proved him wrong with a conventional definition of ethnic cleansing as including offensive violence and terrorizing, which my position did not include.

  25. says

    You’re a bit like your savage friends in Gaza. You fire your rockets, but they miss their target.

    And so you’re back to repeat the same nonsense as you have done several times before: viz, Israel is broke without America, has no natural resources, Israelis don’t really want to have another war, America is looking for a way to back out of supporting Israel, etc…

    All of which is verifiable nonsense!

    Obama is on record as saying that Israel has every right to defend herself, financial aid only accounts for 3% of Israel’s whopping 245 billion dollar yearly GDP, oil and gas are oozing out of the ground and platforms in the Med are tapping billions of dollars’ worth of gas and Iron Dome has intercepted 90% of the Iranian rockets fired at defenceless civilians in Israel.

    All your lies are easily exposed! You’re a clown!

  26. says

    I am so sick and tired of your repetitive, factitious posts. You make the same points over and over, but no one here is buying – we’ve all been studying this issue for years, at least as long or longer than you have, and we have come to completely different conclusions. Two of your “talking points” are particularly egregious:

    1). You continuously state that Israel has “no natural resources”, when it has been pointed out to you numerous times that Israel has recently discovered HUGE deposits of oil and natural gas that will actually come to benefit US in the near future. Also, sheer Israeli BRAINPOWER is their most valuable resource, IMO, some thing that the ENTIRE muslim world lacks entirely and utterly.

    2). Your irritating statement that “advocating ethnic cleansing is illegal in most countries,” (and designating comments here as such is an exaggeration at best and a calumny at worst) is completely beside the point and is intended purely to intimidate. Who gives a f*ck what other countries deem legal or illegal? Lots of other countries have ridiculous, restrictive laws on what can be said but we live in the greatest nation on Earth and you will not intimidate us out of exercising our First Amendment Right to free speech.

    You can croak all you want but your faulty premises won’t get much traction here. You neglect to mention in your analyses that the “occupied” land upon which settlements are being built is land CONQUERED BY ISRAEL IN A WAR OF AGGRESSION BY TWO ARAB COUNTRIES. They started it and Israel finished it, period. The former Jordanians who now live in the West Bank and the former Egyptians who live in Gaza can call themselves “palestinians” until Doomsday but that won’t make it so. (And Doomsday is coming sooner than they think!) There will be no “return to the 1967 borders” unless those groups are willing to re-integrate with the populaces of their original homelands. “palestine” is a made-up entity with ZERO legitimacy and it will NEVER, I repeat, NEVER, be allowed to be sovereign.

    You keep speaking for “most of us”, but I know vast numbers of individuals who are diametrically opposed to your views and are totally in sync with us here at JW – roughly 50% of the nation. You’ve outed yourself as a Leftist Loon, and you’re about as Roman Catholic as Louis Farrakhan.

    If you insist on posting here in the future, PLEASE get some new material. It seems that you just copy-and-paste whole paragraphs from previous posts into new ones repeatedly. It got BORING quite a while back. And since you seem to be new here, I will tell you what JWers do when posts start to get repetitive – they skim past as soon as they see the poster’s screenname. Why, BTW, are the Israel-vs-jihad thread the only ones upon which you post? Don’t you have any other invaluable insight to share on other matters relating to the jihad? How about FGM?

    Please get some new schtick, or just go away. You need to stay fresh to keep up here.

  27. says

    Correction to my last post:

    “(since he claims that a “minority” of JW commenters do this, and there must be at least 100 JW regulars)”

  28. says

    Above, YGM hissed and spat: “…advocating the expulsion of a group from a territory–as is repeatedly done here–is morally reprehensible, and not the answer to any military, or terrorist provocation.”

    One must assume, therefore, that he also regards the removal/ retreat/ expulsion of the Indonesian Muslim military and of many Indonesian Muslim colonists, from East Timor, after the thirty or so years that they spent (in a leisurely sort of manner) exploiting and abusing the native non-Muslim inhabitants, as morally reprehensible. And presumably the military defeat and retreat of the Muslim Sudanese, and the rise of non-Muslim South Sudan, is a deplorable instance of ‘ethnic cleansing’. And one must assume that he views the expulsion of the German army and associated German occupiers from France and from Poland, at the end of WWII, as constituting ‘ethnic cleansing’…? And presumably the driving out of the Japanese invaders and colonists from Korea, which took place at the end of WWII, must also be condemned; and the driving out of the Japanese military and imperial occupiers from a large swath of south east and east Asia, from Papua-New Guinea and Indonesia and Singapore and Malaysia and Burma and China and the Philippines, was *also* an immoral act of ‘ethnic cleansing’, being also ‘the expulsion of a group from a territory’.

    And presumably he thinks it a dreadful shame that the Spaniards and Portuguese, the Bulgarians and Greeks and Serbs and Hungarians and others, drove out all (or in the case of the Balkans, most) of the Muslims from their territories…never mind that through the entire period of the occupation of those lands by invading Muslim imperialists, the Muslim behaviour toward the indigenes was *exactly* that of an invading army, complete with periodic rapine, pillage and mass murder. I deplore the expulsion of the Jews from Spain – *that* was a *real*, morally wrong, ‘ethnic cleansing'; but NOT the expulsion of the Muslims, Spain could not have survived if it had left the Muslims in situ, the jihad would have restarted the instant any group of Muslims felt strong enough.

    As far as I am concerned, the dismantling of an enemy military base right on one’s border, that has been the source of repeated acts of aggression striking deep into one’s home territory, and the expulsion – from one’s territory, or from that borderland, of those resident within that enemy military base: of an enemy army together with its associated support personnel and camp-followers, as well as all Fifth Columnists identified as their fellow travellers – does not constitute ‘ethnic cleansing’.

    Jihad Armed Camp Gaza is a giant forward military base of the Ummah, or Mohammedan Mob, the Army and Empire of Islam, which has *global* ambitions exceeding even the megalomaniacal dreams of the Comintern or of the Third Reich.

    Dismantling Muslim Military Base Gaza and razing it to the ground and soundly defeating and causing to retreat into Egypt its jihad gang bosses and their troops and the many camp followers and support personnel, is not ‘ethnic cleansing’. It’s called ‘defeating an enemy army and causing it to retreat’.

    It’s not ethnic cleansing any more than the expulsion of the Japanese Army from the Philippines was ethnic cleansing.

  29. says

    https://me.yahoo.com/a/jn3RbDthtvWVAf4SjINGi9CXvxDuiL5_YGM-#76700 is back yet again, slyly urging us to abandon our ally Israel to the Muslim barbarians.

    He claims bit to like Jihad aggression, but his *only* comments here have been slamming the civilized Israelis.

    As to his constant assertion that “Israel has no natural resources”, I don’t find this so much in need of refuting”which it certainly can be, as other posters have done”as to ask why *that* should be an issue in the first place.

    Whether or not a nation has a wealth of natural resources will tell you little about its success or the character of her people.

    The United States has quite an abundance of natural resources, and is quite affluent.

    But many of the countries of central Africa”including basket-case Zimbabwe”are even richer in natural resources. This hasn’t kept them from being failed states and kleptocracies.

    Saudi Arabia has a wealth of oil, and yet this nation is ruled by the bedouin House of Saud, has no freedom, is a Shari’ah state, convicts people for *witchcraft*, doesn’t allow women to drive, practices crucifixion, and regularly beheads people.

    Conversely, nations like Japan, the Netherlands, and Britain lack most metals and gemstones, and Britain has only fairly recently been found to have oil reserves in the north sea. And yet, these nations are vibrant, innovative states and solid democracies.

    Would readers here rather live in the Netherlands or in Zimbabwe? Do I even have to ask?

    By this string of yahoo letters “reasoning”, the United States should have abandoned Britain and Western Europe during WWII because those nations lacked sufficient natural resources.

    This poster is an ass”and worse, an enabler of savagery.

  30. says

    And, pursuant to the above, Israel stands solidly among the civilized nations. As CGW notes, Israel’s greatest natural resource is her citizens’ brainpower.

    Israel is a state with an excellent education system, strong links to other fine colleges and universities throughout the West, and institutions both public and private that encourage R & D.

    Israel”with the same semi-arid climate as her Muslim neighbors”has *flourished*.

    Access to natural resources can be a boon, everything else being equal.

    But in every single case, it is freedom and a philosophy that favors life-affirming values that trumps the mere factual presence of natural resources every single time.

    And it is well to remember, in any case, that beyond arable farmland, “natural resources” have no *intrinsic* value.

    The vast oil reserves of the world, after all, were nothing but a curiosity until great minds developed the internal combustion engine, the electric light, and all the other things that run on oil and gas.

    Infidel inventions all…

  31. says

    Forced expulsion is neither “genocide” nor “ethnic cleansing” according to conventional definitions of both terms. Whether it’s “illegal” depends on context. Muslim countries have indulged in forced expulsion (even of fellow Muslims) many times in recent, and not so recent history. When a modern Western democratic country does it (like Czechoslovakia in 1945-6, or the other examples dumbledoresarmy gave), it does it for a damn good reason: the ones being expelled pose a mortal violent seditious threat to the existence of the expellers (not to mention, to the existence of others).

    So from now on, if you want to be accurate, just say, “A tiny minority of Jihad Watch commenters advocate forced expulsion of Muslims.”

  32. says

    Here you go again with the broken record . . .

    Again, WHO CARES if calls for repatriation/deportation, which are NEITHER genocide nor “ethnic cleansing” and are, as mentioned by LemonLime, “for a damn good reason: the ones being expelled pose a mortal violent seditious threat to the existence of the expellers (not to mention, to the existence of others)”, are illegal elsewhere and could result in jail time in those countries? We are concerned with what we are doing HERE in the US of A, and the rest of them be damned. There is nothing illegal about mike ryan’s statement here, and that is what should concern him. Nor is his statement “morally reprehensible” as per the circumstances outlined exhaustively above; he speaks for many of us here, myself included.

    Don’t like it? Boo-friggin’-hoo. There are a great number of us all over the civilized West, and no amount of your high-and-mighty attempts at chastizing us for our supposed iniquity will make a dent – we are even more convinced of our viewpoints than you can imagine. You will not silence us, nor shame us into silence, with your ass-backward moralizing, especially not here, in the Land of the Free.

    As per Israel’s natural resources, you seem a little obtuse on that point. Yes, CURRENTLY Israel needs to import oil and gas, but its new discoveries will make it energy-sufficient and bring in wealth to boot, enough to rival the Arabs as our suppliers, in the near future. You balk at the prospect of investment? Watch and see how many trading partners would love to see an alternative to OPEC.

    I am not all that worried about the muslim armies – to be frank, they are all pussies, can’t fight worth a damn and run like cowards. If they could get their heads out of their collective islamic asses it might make a difference, but they are so undisciplined and unorganized by nature (as inculcated by their “religion” and culture) that they are constantly at a distinct disadvantage when faced with superior Western might, and that includes Israelis. Sure, they excel at teroristic, guerilla-type fighting, where they can hide, strike and then run away and hide among children, or fire from a hospital or mosque and then screech about the collateral damage that they themselves have caused when their fire is returned and civilians are killed.

    You seem to be saying that Israel has no right to divert water from the Jordan river. Now why would that be? Surely it has as much right as any other bordering nation, or do you disagree? The fact that Israel has accomplished what none of its neighbors have is a commentary on SOMETHING, don’t you agree? I wonder what that would be?

    Let’s just see how much Americans are willing to support Israel, shall we? I’m hoping that VERY SOON they’ll step up, do our dirty work for us and take out Iran’s nuclear program. You’re fooling yourself by underestimating broader American public support for Israel in such a scenario.

  33. says

    https://me.yahoo.com/a/jn3RbDthtvWVAf4SjINGi9CXvxDuiL5_YGM-#76700 wrote:

    The fact of the matter is that the entire region is grossly overpopulated, in terms of what the local ecosystem can support…
    …………………….

    Finally, this poster’s motivation in enabling Jihad is revealed!

    Wiping out the Israelis would be a blow for “sustainability”! Genocide is good for the environment…sarc/off

    Really, there’s no bs this Jihad apologist won’t try…

  34. says

    CGW

    seconding your critique (in your posting on November 18 at 3.58 pm, above) of the tedious and slyly nasty YGM 76700, above.

    He dismisses the topic of this thread in one airy line – “Notwithstanding Hamas’ strenuous efforts to peg their collateral damage attacks on the IDF” (refusing to dwell on what this sort of thing *tells* us about the Gazan Arab Muslims, the kind of people they are, the tactics they are using) and then proceeds to his usual tedious Bullshit (for the technical definition of which, see Harry Frankfurt, On Bullshit); which is so repetitiously predictable in style and content that it is essentially spam.

    Just for fun, since he likes to pretend that it’s only only a handful of fringe Christians in the USA who support Israel (never mind that I support Israel and I’m an *Australian*) and that good Catholics do not, I’m going to mention at least one very prominent convert to Catholicism – one Magdi Cristiano Allam – who wrote *a whole book* called ‘Viva Israele’, ‘Long Live Israel’.

    And there are totally nonreligious people, secular people, who support Israel. Hugh Fitzgerald, who used to post here a lot, is an atheist, and is one of the most passionately and intelligently pro-Israel people I know.

    I can think of two Catholic atheists, the Italian Oriana Fallaci, who was by the end of her life a passionate friend of Israel, and the redoubtable and fiercely anti-clerical Irishman, Conor Cruise O ‘Brien, author of ‘The Siege: The Story of Israel and Zionism’. And Geert Wilders, of Dutch Catholic upbringing, identifies as a ‘Catholic agnostic'; and is a firm friend of Israel.

    And how does YGM account for someone like Jacques Ellul, author of ‘The Technological Society'; French Reformed theologian and sociologist and academic? Ellul, French to the backbone, Righteous Among the Nations, and intelligent and prayerful friend of Zion that he became, doesn’t exactly fit into the ‘lunatic fringe of redneck American evangelicals’ box…

    John Roy Carlson, author of ‘Cairo to Damascus’, who writes with great love and admiration about Israel in the final chapters of that book, was Armenian Christian by upbringing, not ‘evangelical protestant’.

    There are intelligent de-dhimmified *Hindus*, in India, who support Israel; one sees them posting in the comments threads of English-language Israeli news outlets; and there has been something of an official-level rapprochement between Israel and India, in recent years; trade, business investment, that kind of thing.

    One thing I will say: I have come to the conclusion, over the past ten years and more, that people who support Israel are much nicer to be around, than people who do not; while the people who openly *hate* Israel, whether Muslim or non-Muslim, give me the creeps.

  35. says

    dumbles, I personally know a large number of Roman Catholics who support Israel wholeheartedly and would be entirely willing to see their tax dollars spent on insuring her security, especially if that meant taking aid away from the “palis”, Egyptians, Pakis, etc.

    Also, it is impressive how many ex-muslims are stepping forward and expressing their support for Israel. Freed at last from the demonic islamic mindset, they are clear and unequivocal. It’s refreshing.

  36. says

    Also, don’t you find it interesting that YGM was totally unfamiliar with your screenname? He/she just might be a mohammedan with a Western education.

  37. says

    I believe it is a show, for pittys sake. I believe the militants and their nieghbors are liars searching for public sympathy be clever use of the news media”

    I believe it’s worse than that.
    I believe the media is not a naive fool used by the Arabs, but a liar per excellence fishing for lies and encouraging the Arabs to supply more of them to be used in its hate-Israel show.

  38. says

    CGW, good posts and I agree with nearly everything you wrote, except one particular point:

    “I am not all that worried about the muslim armies – to be frank, they are all pussies, can’t fight worth a damn and run like cowards. If they could get their heads out of their collective islamic asses it might make a difference, but they are so undisciplined and unorganized by nature (as inculcated by their “religion” and culture) that they are constantly at a distinct disadvantage when faced with superior Western might…”

    You’re correct that Muslims are incapable of organizing an actual effective war (except against backward Third World peoples; e.g. Sudan, Somalia, and even in these places they seem unable to conquer as they did in their days of yore); and you’re correct that their guerilla warfare couldn’t stand a chance against us. And you’re correct, on one level, that they are “pussies”. However, there have been thousands of instances (successful, and intercepted) of terror attacks showing a psychology and culture of fanaticism that is insane enough to commit suicide in order to mass murder people. When we’re dealing with that level of fanaticism, it doesn’t matter anymore that they may or may not be “pussies”. Even a pussy can become deadly if he becomes insanely mass-murderous (cf., the Columbine killers). Indeed it is precisely because Muslims are unable to organize and launch a formal military attack (or even an informal guerilla attack) against any part of the West, that they resort to terror attacks. And they are singular, if not unique, in the fact that culturally they breed a fanaticism capable of the deadliest type of terror attack, and institutionally, their Holy Script explicitly encourages it.

    Even in their golden days when they were mounting military offensives against the world, left and right, and for 1,000 years (from the 7th century to the 17th century) fiercely and doggedly against all parts of the West. they augmented their military offensives with terror attacks (though the term “terrorism” wasn’t coined yet).

  39. says

    LL, I mostly agree with you as well, but I don’t see the individual muslim armies posing as much of a threat as in olden days . . . although still a part of the ummah, they don’t have the cohesiveness and organizational structure to make them successful as a whole – they are all still the sum of their paltry parts. I do agree with you on the terrorism aspect, of course, and about the fanaticism, but I still think that said fanaticism is difficult to maintain in any real type of modern military structure on a large scale. Smaller bands, no doubt. Witness Saddam’s vaunted army during the Gulf War conflict, and the thousands of mass surrenders that took place.

    Can they do damage? Indubitably. Will they prevail over time in a large-scale regional conflict? I think not.

    Hope you are doing well, my friend. Best Regards.

    CGW

  40. says

    And he’s ignoring the fact that the Israelis are *still* busily planting trees and are world leaders in water recycling and other techniques for conserving and re-using water. And in that, we Aussies (who inhabit the world’s driest inhabited continent) have been working with them for a long time.

    A little news item from 2011

    http://www.jwire.com.au/news/australia-to-attend-water-conference-in-israel/20220

    Australia to attend Water Conference in Israel

    with an update from this year

    http://www.jwire.com.au/news/israeli-australian-water-co-operation/16027

    Israeli-Australian Water Co-operation

    Myself, I’m hoping like mad that an Australian farmer called Peter Andrews – who’s figured out some very clever, *cheap*, subtle and effective ways of restoring river systems and ‘re-hydrating’ degraded/ eroded landscapes, controlling salinity and recharging aquifers, while restoring soil fertility and enhancing biodiversity, he calls it ‘Natural Sequence Farming’ and I think that it would suit Israel down to the ground – gets invited to Israel, sometime *soon*.

  41. says

    Dumbledore’s Army wrote:

    And he’s ignoring the fact that the Israelis are *still* busily planting trees and are world leaders in water recycling and other techniques for conserving and re-using water. And in that, we Aussies (who inhabit the world’s driest inhabited continent) have been working with them for a long time.
    ………………………

    Absolutely, DDA.

    One of the more absurd memes I’ve noted of late is the idea that Islam is “eco-friendly””whereas *nothing* could be further from the truth. Indiscriminately high birth rates, slovenly agricultural practices, and rampant animal cruelty are rife in the Muslim world.

    But then, useful idiots for years tried to characterize the enormously environmentally destructive Communist Soviet Union as “green”, as well”and just as ludicrously.

    In fact, the only thing “green” about Islam is their flag.

    Unlike the civilized Israelis, who for both practical and philosophical reasons are good environmental stewards, and who are”like the Australians”endeavoring to become even better, most Muslims’ only use for environmentalism is as Da’wa enabling the spread of Islam.