Happy Diwali and Prosperous New Year!

Diwali is tomorrow, November 13. As the world turns, that is just a few hours away in Malaysia and Indonesia, and so I wish all Hindu, Sikh, and Jain Jihad Watchers and their families a happy and prosperous Diwali.

India is one of the front-line states in the global jihad war, and all free people need to stand with her in defense of the civilizations we have built and the understandings of human rights that we have formulated and share, as they are essentially universal outside the realm of Sharia.

Happy Diwali!

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My irony decetor is swinging wildly.

Islam = EVIL

Indian religions = PURE SWEETNESS, JUST LIKE CHRISTIANITY

Who cares if indian parents beat up and murder their young ones for being too "westernized" as well?

They are all fundamentalists. And as such, perform atrocities in the name of their culture and/or religion.

Just as Christian parents often do, or haven't some parents provided sick children with the recommended prayer, instead of proper medical care? The consequences of that fundamentalism are and fatal to the child.

Irony, sweet irony...

There is no doubt about this at all...you're a complete idiot Carlos!

You're a clown!

Islam's murders of its own children are divinely sanctioned, in other religions it is forbidden.

That's the difference you would love to pretend doesn't exist....but it does!!

Prosperity, joy and Happiness to my non-Hindu Jihad watch family.

Happy Diwali to all who celebrate! May you have a joyous and prosperous new year!

carlos.m.madeira wrote:

Irony, sweet irony...
........................

More from the Muslim apologist, I see...

To Robert and all at Jihadwatch:

Happy Diwali greetings. It's the Indian festival of lights commemorating the victory of the good.

Let's all keep up the good work.

Thank you, Jihadwatch.

Atanu

Happy Diwali to all at Jihadwatch :)

"....and Prosperous New Year!"

Well... now that Obama is back in power with his highly flawed economic policy, I don't know how much we are going to prosper. But it is nice to have a positive attitude :)

Inflation is coming big time, and real assets like gold, silver, real-estate etc protect people from losing their wealth to inflation. Diwali is a good time to buy gold and silver. Add real-estate to that and we should be able to protect whatever wealth we do already have.

Dear carlos.m.madeira,

Your irony bends back on you, because your comment is mistaken in a number of respects. For example, you imply that Hindus do as many honor killings as Muslims. False.

Percentage of honor killings done by Muslims

According to the article "Worldwide Trends in Honor Killings," published in the Middle East Forum, Muslims do 91 percent of honor killings worldwide and 96 percent of honor killings in Europe. If you click on the link to the article, those percentages can be found five paragraphs below the heading "Methodology."

Carlos, you also wrongly suggest that Christians withhold medical care from their children and tell them to pray instead. I gather that a few members of the group following Mary Baker Eddy's teachings, which she called "Christian Science," have rejected medical treatment for their children, but they are a truly tiny minority of Christians worldwide. As for Christian in general, or even Christian fundamentalists in general, they do not reject doctors or modern medicine.

You are wrong in suggesting that all fundamentalisms are basically the same. You need to distinguish more carefully.

Even if we assume religions and cults are all a tissue of fantasies, those "fantasies" vary greatly, and exist all along a spectrum ranging from benign to malign, and every point between. Very different social outcomes result depending on the cult.

Islam is quite unique among the "great" religions in the extreme degree to which it fosters totalitarianism and violently rejects the open society. Hinduism, Buddhism, Animism, Judaism, Christianity, all have adapted themselves to, and in some ways greatly fostered, open societies. The same is not true of Islam. Islam is a global expansionist totalitarian theocratic movement. That is the sad truth.

Happy Diwali to all.

This festival of lights is celebrated by hindus, sikhs, jains, and buddhists for different reasons.

I say to all because their is a moral to the story. or at least one of the story concerning celebration for the return of Ram . It matters not if you take them as reality or just a myth. It's a story of good versus evil. It's Krishna defeating the marauding evil demon, It's a story of the god king Ram taking back his wife and punishing her evil kidnaper Ravin who was the king of Lanka or present day Sri Lanka.

If only the lessons were followed by the prsent day misguided Hindus who continue to preach " Peace" while the present day evil muslim demons are running amuck and destroying the Indian civilization in favor of an evil foreign teachings from an arab luantic.

Same to you sir, Praise the Lord.

May the number of non-Muslim Indians - whether Hindu, Sikh, Christian, Buddhist, Parsee, Jain, tribal or secular - who understand, truly understand, their country's history, and the ruination wrought by Islam and by the Ummah, or the Mohammedan mob, keep on growing, faster and faster. May each person who understands the truth become like a little shining light, and the lights multiply.

May the darkness that Islam spreads - the confusion and delusion and denialism of dhimmitude - be lifted from the minds of so many in India; like fog or smoke blown away by a strong wind. And may many, many ethnically-Indian Muslims apostasise from Islam and become free, creative human beings.

May India, currently assailed by the jihad both from within and from without, be given strength to see the jihad for what it is, to resist it, and to prevail.

This is my prayer for India, at this time of their festival of light.

Your irony deceptor is certainly swinging wildly, so let me steady it.
You say "Who cares if indian parents beat up and murder their young ones for being too "westernized" as well?". Well, actually a lot of people would be interested in knowing about such cases, because these are truly rare. I googled "Indian parents murder westernised children" and the query threw up cases after cases of MUSLIMS ONLY.
Examples: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2147559/Shafilea-Ahmed-Parents-murdered-teenage-daughter-conduct-bringing-shame-family.html
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2218986/Afghan-womans-slow-agonising-death-husband-slit-throat-let-children-live-Western-lives.html
91 percent of ALL honor killings worldwide are by Muslims; in Europe, Muslims comprised an even larger majority at 96 percent. http://www.meforum.org/2646/worldwide-trends-in-honor-killings

The highest incidence of reported forced marriages too is in Muslim communities.

So, Islam = EVIL
Period.

Let us all celebrate Diwali:

The victory of Light over Darkness everywhere.

The victory of Good over Evil everywhere.

And the triumph of Love over Hate everywhere.

HAPPY DIWALI TO EVERYONE, EVERYWHERE!

Apparently I'm not getting through.

To those that immediately insult me, I have zero respect for you. I haven't insulted nor will insult anyone. In my view, ALL religions are enemies of human rights and well being.

Yes, Islam = EVIL. No doubts there, and I do my best to make people understand that.

My complaint here is that you seem to ignore the fact that indian cultures ALSO have atrocities built into their religions.

What about India's caste system, divinely sanctioned? What about their mandatory dowry? What about the way they degrade women, just as Islam does?

It's more than just religion, it's a cultural issue.

Apparently everyone here thinks India equals sunshine and rainbows. Spiritual fluffiness.

It's not.

Don't believe me? Sure, have a read at Karma Nirvana's website:
http://www.karmanirvana.org.uk/a-word-from-jasvinder-sanghera.html


Jasvinder is a victim of that beautiful indian culture you admire so much. And her case is comparatively mild.

I have also lived through that situation myself. Me, being a white male, educated, could not, obviously, date an indian girl. She *has* to date within her culture. And more, within her caste. Culture, religion, pride.

It's the norm, not the exception.

Am I still an idiot?

Happy Diwali to everyone on this site who celebrates it!

Carlos

What you are posting is badly off topic for a thread just created to wish Hindus on one of their holiest occasions. You could have picked any of the other India related threads to push your tu-quoque arguments, but instead, you picked this one.

Which is what makes many suspect that you are trolling.

"You say "Who cares if indian parents beat up and murder their young ones for being too "westernized" as well?". Well, actually a lot of people would be interested in knowing about such cases, because these are truly rare. I googled "Indian parents murder westernised children" and the query threw up cases after cases of MUSLIMS ONLY."


Let me help you with that:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12055156
http://www.childlineindia.org.in/child-abuse-child-violence-india.htm
http://womennewsnetwork.net/2011/10/26/arranged-marriage-india-honor-violence/
http://www.meforum.org/3287/hindu-muslim-honor-killings
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2010/jun/25/triple-murder-india-honour-killings


Honor, caste, culture. All interconnected.

"What you are posting is badly off topic for a thread just created to wish Hindus on one of their holiest occasions. You could have picked any of the other India related threads to push your tu-quoque arguments, but instead, you picked this one.

Which is what makes many suspect that you are trolling."

I have posted on two other india related threads, if I recall correctly.

The thing that shocked me on this thread is the hypocrisy. You don't seem to recognize Hindu and Sikh cultures have an abundance of human rights violations, women submission, caste segregation and honor violence (more often psychological, but still violence!).

You fight Islam because of these things, yet wish Hindus a happy Diwali.

This is absurd. Is voicing my opinion trolling? Isn't that what the left, muslim, and apologists SAY OF YOUR MOVEMENT?

Can you understand why I am doubly upset by this, and that I'm not trolling at all?

There are only 2 'Hindu' countries (as in most of the people there are Hindu, not the official religion is Hinduism). They are India and Nepal. In neither of these countries are non-Hindus persecuted (and please don't pull up the murder of some Christian missionaries that happened in the 90s) Nor do Hindus (or Sikhs) have any desire, let alone plans, to subvert the rest of the world until say, Manu's smritis reign supreme.

The ills you describe are all intra-Hindu problems - problems within the Hindu community. Unlike in Islam, where all these things are sanctioned in the Quran and Sunnah, in Hinduism, these things are not sanctified in ancient Hindu scriptures. In fact, in pre-Islamic India i.e. India before 1000AD, Hindu society was as free as Western society today, but once the Muslim maurauders came in, these rules were brought in to preserve Hindus from Islamizing and protect Hindus from Muslims.

In Pakistan, you may have read about Hindu girls disappearing and ending up married to their Muslim kidnappers. With that sort of a background, you can excuse Hindus for being a tad paranoid about Muslims. However, in India, inter-caste marriages are now pretty common, as are inter-religious marriages, w/ neither spouse converting to the other's faith. While casteism itself is not totally a thing of the past, those barriers are largely broken down.

It's also hard to put honor killings down to culture, when 91% of honor killings are not only Muslim, but also done over a wide variety of cultures - from Tunisia to Bangladesh. Other than Islam, what does an Afghan have in common w/ a Turk or an Arab that would make such a trend 'cultural'?

Similarly, there are something like 1.5 billion Muslims worldwide, and 1 billion Hindus, largely in India but also worldwide. If Hindus were as bad as Muslims in this regard, wouldn't the stats, rather than being 91% of the world's honor killings being done by Muslims, be more like 55% of the world's honor killings being done by Muslims, and 35% by Hindus?

Just saying...

It is good in this colder than normal time that people will be lighting lights. Happy and Prosperous Diwali!!!

The difference Carlos is that most Hindus will acknowledge that their culture may have promoted and may still promote misogyny or inequality. It's true we practiced sati. We got rid of it. It's true we stagnated our society with the caste system. We are trying our best to address it - it's tough but we want to do it. It's true that our culture is patriarchal and misogynistic. We want to change it.

And that's what sets us apart from Muslims. Hindus are willing to challenge the parts of their religion and scripture that may be unjust. The great majority of our scripture is allegorical and esoteric. This is not a religion of dogmatic belief. It's hard to find "kill the infidel and enslave his women" diktats. The only bit of scripture that perhaps issues Quran-like proclamations is a reviled minor work called the Manu Smriti which even conservative Hindu schools of thought reject.

Can you name a Salafi preacher who has denounced the violent parts of the Quran, the parts that promote slavery; subjugation of women, minorities and pacifists; mindless submission to a megalomaniac god?

Five times a day, the muezzin wails his chant of submission, the call of the slaver - god is the greatest he says, there is no one but (MY) god and M'mad his messenger.

It's Diwali and we chant a popular mantra from the Upanishads.

From ignorance, lead me to truth
From darkness, lead me to light
From death, lead me to immortality
Om peace, peace, peace

Islam wails submission to its version of truth and the denial of all else. Hinduism asks its followers to seek out knowledge.

Hinduism may have faults but we don't deny them. We don't believe that we are superior to anyone. We don't claim to have all the answers. Our scriptures caution us against doing that.

So, please ... don't compare us to the fascist totalitarian system that is Islam. And feel free to critique what I have said or any Hindu beliefs, scriptures or anything else we hold sacred. It's not like we going to come and blow you up.

So Hindus are ok because their hate and violence is only among themselves?

Are you sure you advocate human rights?
Why do we rise up against the stoning of muslim women in Islamic countries? We do condemn it, don't we? Or is it just the divinely sanctioned infidel hate that worries us?

Would it be ok if muslims exempted non-muslims from sharia, but still applied it within their own culture?

Oh no, I don't claim that hindus perform honor murders as often as muslims. But they do employ violence, both physical and psychological violence against their young.

As I said, I have *personal* experience with this. The girl I love was beaten by her father, was subjected to endless psychological violence because she wanted to date me, a non-hindu.

I condemn *ALL* human rights violations, not just the ones which affect other cultures.

If you don't agree, and you still call me a troll... well, no more to talk about, then.

randist,

I am not comparing. I am stating facts.

I completely condemn Islam, in the same way I completely condemn Hinduism.

I don't care how much fluffiness you have, if you also have at least one atrocity in your "divine" (or ideological) books. And you do have more than one.

You claim that you don't preach to be superior to others, but again, personal experience tells me you do. Maybe not directly, but you do preach pride in your culture, which can be seen as one form of superiority.

It is the same as patriotism. It can unite the country, but will also divide them from the rest of the world.


If you truly want to change the world for better, preach inclusiveness. Everyone is equal, everyone has the same rights, your children (over 18) can do whatever they feel is best for them, and all you can do is understand and support them.

Do this and I will admire your cultures.

Until then, I will keep talking about this, demanding attention, crying "wolf" if I must.

Dear Jihad Watch:

Thank you for this holiday greetings forum. I would like to wish the happiest of holidays to my friends in Australia, Wales (UK) and Chicago, USA!

Also, a special "insider's wink and nod" to some special people in East London and Durban, South Africa... this American Indian wishing some Asian Indians a smooth trip down the pow-wow highway to the Festival of Lights! Remember what we decided that should entail? Smile guys and gals!

Happy Diwali! Happy New Year My Friends!

Carlos

Re: treatment of Muslim women in Muslim countries, I for one just use it to point out how barbaric Muslims/Islam are. I am not in the same page as Robert & Pamela who are trying to save Muslim victims of Islam, b'cos all too often, even these Muslims, while being victims of Islam themselves, don't have any empathy for non-Muslim victims of Islam, be it Jews, Christians, Hindus, or anyone else. I have a theory that in the event that they were saved, they would go on to procreate future Muslim fanatics who would then go on to do the same things to others. So these honor killings are just there for educational purposes to show the rest of the world what barbarians Muslims are - they are certainly not for helping them out, as that would backfire.

Like randist.infatuation pointed out, the spirit of self criticism and free inquiry, which was there in the West in medeveal times, is very much there in India now, even though castism and related problems remain a problem. But by no means are the majority of Hindus the sort of fanatics you are portraying here, who would murder their daughters/sisters if the latter wanted to marry outside the castes.

However, reading your response to him, I'm not getting your problem. You have a problem w/ anybody preaching pride or anything similar in their culture, and here, it's a lost cause trying to persuade you. The people who you'd best get along w/ are those dhimmis who've already bent over for Islam, since they don't see anything superior about their culture over Islam. It's the PC-MC formula about all cultures being equal that you are preaching, which is what has dragged the West to its knees. You think that patriotism is a bad thing, but that's the only thing that's going to save individual non-Muslim countries in both West and East from Muslims, whether you're talking about Philippines, India, Israel, US or anyone else.

I'm glad that you don't admire other cultures, since any culture that's earned your admiration is already on a self-destruction war path.

Oh, and one more thing. Your personal experience - I'm sorry that the girl you loved had to go through that. But I've seen many inter-faith marriages happen involving Hindus - both where the guy was Hindu and where the girl was Hindu. Both in India and in the US. No honor killings in either case. Obviously, the family you were dealing w/ were thuggish, and it's good that you didn't get them as in-laws (unless you happen to be Muslim, in which case, there is a whole lot of baggage that makes that understandable).

You have got to be kidding me.

"The people who you'd best get along w/ are those dhimmis who've already bent over for Islam, since they don't see anything superior about their culture over Islam. It's the PC-MC formula about all cultures being equal that you are preaching, which is what has dragged the West to its knees."

I didn't say "all cultures are equal", I said "all persons are equal". That is the essence of the human rights movement.

Of course I condemn the way certain cultures educate the masses. In fact, I condemn ALL religious education, if it is done in the "this is the right culture" kind of way. Meaning "now say with me, jesus christ is our lord and savior" is not proper religious education.

Religious education should be very similar to a history class. Teach all religions, not in a "this is our religion, and this is their religion" but simply "these are the world's religions".

I am aware of the muslim indoctrination problems as much as you, and i'm no dhimmi.

"You think that patriotism is a bad thing, but that's the only thing that's going to save individual non-Muslim countries in both West and East from Muslims, whether you're talking about Philippines, India, Israel, US or anyone else."

Would rather have a human rights movement that recognizes humanity as a single species, instead of many fractured countries.

Patriotism can lead to wars, as well. So I consider it a dangerous thing, if not properly controlled.


"Oh, and one more thing. Your personal experience - I'm sorry that the girl you loved had to go through that. But I've seen many inter-faith marriages happen involving Hindus - both where the guy was Hindu and where the girl was Hindu. Both in India and in the US. No honor killings in either case. Obviously, the family you were dealing w/ were thuggish, and it's good that you didn't get them as in-laws (unless you happen to be Muslim, in which case, there is a whole lot of baggage that makes that understandable)."

Muslims apologists also claim "their" muslims are nice people. The problem, as you so well know, is that beneath their kindness lies jihad.

Indian cultures teach that family matters should not leave the household, is it not? That means it is very rare that any information about these atrocities ever leaves the family. Most go unchecked.

My case is not an isolated case. I know of at least 3 more, and that's just within my small circle of friends here in Portugal.


"treatment of Muslim women in Muslim countries, I for one just use it to point out how barbaric Muslims/Islam are. I am not in the same page as Robert & Pamela who are trying to save Muslim victims of Islam, b'cos all too often, even these Muslims, while being victims of Islam themselves, don't have any empathy for non-Muslim victims of Islam, be it Jews, Christians, Hindus, or anyone else [...]"

I think we're settled, then. I'm trying to fight for human rights, for a decent life for all.

You just want them to leave you alone. You don't care what goes on between them, as long as it doesn't affect you. Isn't that so?

It is unfortunate that I have to fight not only against your own "ideological enemies", but against yourselves as well. So be it.

Actually, re Hindus and interfaith marriages.

At the church I attend, one of the couples there, with adult children, just had one of their sons (a medical doctor) marry a nice Hindu Indian girl (another doctor: the usual workplace romance).

I got the impression that both sets of parents are quite content with the match: they are happy that their children are happy.

Not sure what they did about a wedding ceremony or ceremonies, but anyway, the marriage has happened.

You are either confused or have disingenuously changed tack. NONE of the links you have provided, talk about your thesis that Indian parents beat up and murder their young ones for being too "westernized".

For example, the first link is about children in north India (which has a high percentage of Muslims) witnessing parent-parent domestic violence and concludes: "These findings from northern India are congruent with those from other geographical/cultural settings in suggesting that witnessing violence between one's parents while growing up is an important risk factor for the perpetration of partner violence in adulthood."

The fourth link specifically states: "Though no less gruesome, the Hindu honor killings seem largely confined to the north of India [Muslim influence again!-SD)and are perpetuated by sociocultural factors largely specific to India.

*The millions of Indian Hindus who have immigrated to the West do not bring the practice along with them.*..... The democratically elected government of India has taken important, if long overdue, steps to combat the practice of honor killing, and some progress has been made.
Not so in Pakistan where officials at all levels of government are either unable or unwilling to cope with honor killings".Unquote.

I may remind you that this forum is "Jihad Watch" and concerns itself with the scourge of Islam that is blighting this planet. There are many other forums which are about the ills of religions and humanity in general. By attempting to show a moral equivalence between Islam and other religions you are either being completely naive or thoroughly dishonest.

Thank you, Robert, your greetings are much appreciated.
And thanks to all other JWers (especially DDA) for all the good wishes.
Like Lord Ram's time, may this century also witness the victory of good over evil. And may evil be wiped off the face of this earth.
God bless.

randist.infatuation, good post. Hindus, like Christians, Jews, and others, are able to look at their own actions and criticize and reevaluate their practices.

Hindu-majority India has, in fact, made enormous strides in the last few decades—in human rights, public health, education, and standard of living.

Would that that was true of Muslim countries...

I should add, in fact, that with the resurgence of Islam in most Muslim countries, that most of
Dar-al-Islam is actually getting much worse.

Great post, randist.
Thanks.

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