India: Muslim who appeared on TV show speaking of his fear of being honor killed is murdered

Longtime Jihad Watch readers may notice that I have posted the following information before. And I will continue to post it, as long as the near-universal denial and obfuscation continues, which I expect will be until right around the time that hell freezes over.

Muslims commit 91 percent of honor killings worldwide. A manual of Islamic law certified as a reliable guide to Sunni orthodoxy by Al-Azhar University, the most respected authority in Sunni Islam, says that "retaliation is obligatory against anyone who kills a human being purely intentionally and without right." However, "not subject to retaliation" is "a father or mother (or their fathers or mothers) for killing their offspring, or offspring's offspring." ('Umdat al-Salik o1.1-2). In other words, someone who kills his child incurs no legal penalty under Islamic law.

The Palestinian Authority gives pardons or suspended sentences for honor murders. Iraqi women have asked for tougher sentences for Islamic honor murderers, who get off lightly now. Syria in 2009 scrapped a law limiting the length of sentences for honor killings, but "the new law says a man can still benefit from extenuating circumstances in crimes of passion or honour 'provided he serves a prison term of no less than two years in the case of killing.'" And in 2003 the Jordanian Parliament voted down on Islamic grounds a provision designed to stiffen penalties for honor killings. Al-Jazeera reported that "Islamists and conservatives said the laws violated religious traditions and would destroy families and values."

In light of all this, until authorities get the courage to tell the truth about honor killing, there will be many more such murders.

"Man featured in Aamir Khan's show on honour killing murdered," by Dwaipayan Ghosh and Pervez Iqbal Siddiqui for TNN, November 27 (thanks to Block Ness):

NEW DELHI: Five months after a young couple appeared on Aamir Khan's television show, Satyamev Jayate, and talked about the threat to their lives because they had married without their parents' consent, the man was shot dead near his village in western Uttar Pradesh on Thursday evening, allegedly by his wife's brothers.

Abdul Hakim, 28, and his 26-year-old wife Mehwish, both Muslims hailing from families with different social standing, had been living under the protection of an NGO in Delhi since May last year. About 15 days ago, Hakim and his wife, who is nine months pregnant, went to meet his ailing mother near Adoli village in Bulandshahr district. He was shot there, while on his way home from the local police station.

The couple, who were neighbours at Adoli, ran away together two years ago after marrying secretly in June 2009. According to Mehwish, her family was opposed to the match because Hakim was poor and belonged to the 'lower' Fakir community. Hakim's father was earlier allegedly killed by Mehwish's family in the village, although it was shown as suicide in police records.

"They would not let us live in peace and now they have taken their revenge," she said on Monday.

"The couple was scared even before coming to the show," Aamir Khan told reporters in Jaipur. "We didn't force anyone to come to the show. The incident is highly unfortunate and shameful."

UP police, meanwhile, have spun an elaborate theory saying the killing was an act of "personal enmity" going back to the time when the couple was in Delhi. But Mehwish and her Delhi-based shelter-providers, Love Commandos, said it was a clear case of murder involving her brothers.

Bulandshahr circle officer Lal S Yadav said Hakim was a victim of a family feud that had its roots in Delhi. "The girl's family had come to accept the marriage. Nothing indicates this murder is linked to the couple's marriage," he claimed.

Yadav added that Hakim's nephew, Salman, had entered into a brawl on June 6 and the alleged killers wanted him to take back the police case lodged against them. "Hakim's death was a result of this feud," said Yadav.

The couple, after a 12-year courtship, had secretly married on June 5, 2009. They kept living with their respective parents till Mehwish's family fixed her marriage for November 11, 2010. The couple then eloped on October 29. Till then, exchanging letters across a brick wall was the only source of communication between the two.

Mehwish's family then announced a bounty on the couple's capture. In May 2011, the pair started living in a shelter in Delhi provided by Love Commandos, an organization that works to eradicate 'honour killings'. This was the first time they had returned to their village, where Hakim also had a police case lodged against him of kidnapping Mehwish.

The nation became aware of the couple's struggles when they were featured in Aamir Khan's Satyamev Jayate on June 3.

"On June 30, the National Commission for Women ordered UP police to protect the two. But this directive was ignored. They asked Hakim to come down to Bulandshahr to record his statement. When he refused, they never contacted him again," Sanjoy Sachdev, chairman of Love Commando, said. The area SSP, however, offered to review his security.

Meanwhile, a girl was born to the couple bringing fresh hope that relations between the two families would normalize. But that was not to be.

"I didn't know people of my own village had arranged for weapons to kill us. I am the next target," a shocked Mehwish said.

Hakim's family had moved to Bhargardi village, 2km away from Adoli. But his father, Abdul Hafiz, refused to leave his ancestral house and stayed back. On July 6, 2011 Hakim's nephew Salman visited an ailing Hafiz to know about his well-being and on his way home, he was allegedly assaulted by Mehwish's relatives. When Salman reported the matter to the police, a non-cognizable report was lodged.

Enraged over the police case, the accused allegedly reached the house of an ailing Abul Hafiz, hanged him upside from a tree right outside his house and assaulted him in full public view. When Abdul Hafiz's wife Shahooran, who had come to stay with her ailing husband, intervened, she too was assaulted. Hafiz died hanging from the tree. The police, however, saw the incident as suicide.

The couple was on the run when Mehwish gave birth to a baby girl who was now a year-and-a-half. In August 2012, when Mehwish got pregnant for the second time, she reached Bhargardi village to stay with Hakim's family for the delivery. Hakim used to visit her once or twice a week. On November 20, Hakim visited Mehwish when he was informed that people were on the lookout for him.

Hakim lodged a complaint with the local police the same day but no action followed. On Noveber 22, he was walking back after buying medicines for his wife when he was intercepted by three persons who shot him dead in public view around 4.30pm.

Aamir Khan said he is aware of the incident and would speak to the authorities to ensure the safety of the rest of the family. He described the murder as "disturbing and unfortunate". "I will speak to government authorities in UP to help and ensure the family is safe. The culprits must be brought to book. The case must be registered on basis of facts," the actor said.

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Muhammad shared his bed and his wife with another man...
There is NO HONOR in Islam.

http://crossmuslims.blogspot.com/2011/04/threesome-in-islam.html

... disturbing and unfortunate ...

And SAVAGE.

Robert,

Of course India is no stranger to this ultra sick muslim phenomena ...

But exactly how long are Americans going to keep there heads buried in the sand?

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-504083_162-57409395-504083/honor-killing-under-growing-scrutiny-in-the-u.s/

Robert,

Of course, India is no stranger to this ultra sick muslim phenomena ...

But how long will Americans continue to keep their heads buried in the sand?

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-504083_162-57409395-504083/honor-killing-under-growing-scrutiny-in-the-u.s/

India: Muslim who appeared on TV show speaking of his fear of being honor killed is murdered
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And this is in India, which is hardly Muslim-majority. But then, "Honor Killings" have become increasingly common in the West, as well.

More:

In light of all this, until authorities get the courage to tell the truth about honor killing, there will be many more such murders.
..............................

In India and the West, this characterization of the authorities' approach to "Honor Killing" is quite accurate. However, in much of the Muslim world, the authorities either wink at "Honor Killings", or else actively enable it.

More:

NEW DELHI: Five months after a young couple appeared on Aamir Khan's television show, Satyamev Jayate, and talked about the threat to their lives because they had married without their parents' consent...
..............................

Anyone who thinks that "adultery" is the one unforgivable crime in Islam, and that that makes it more "moral" than the West nedd to read this.

All sorts of things can get you killed by pious Muslims, including—as here—simply *marrying for love*.

More:

...the man was shot dead near his village in western Uttar Pradesh on Thursday evening, allegedly by his wife's brothers.

Abdul Hakim, 28, and his 26-year-old wife Mehwish, both Muslims hailing from families with different social standing, had been living under the protection of an NGO in Delhi since May last year. About 15 days ago, Hakim and his wife, who is nine months pregnant, went to meet his ailing mother near Adoli village in Bulandshahr district. He was shot there, while on his way home from the local police station.
..............................

I'm afraid this shows all too well that threatened victims can *never* afford to let their guards down. These victims clearly realized that they were in serious danger, and yet they *still* underestimated the severity of the threat.

More:

The couple, who were neighbours at Adoli, ran away together two years ago after marrying secretly in June 2009. According to Mehwish, her family was opposed to the match because Hakim was poor and belonged to the 'lower' Fakir community. Hakim's father was earlier allegedly killed by Mehwish's family in the village, although it was shown as suicide in police records.

"They would not let us live in peace and now they have taken their revenge," she said on Monday.

"The couple was scared even before coming to the show," Aamir Khan told reporters in Jaipur. "We didn't force anyone to come to the show. The incident is highly unfortunate and shameful."

UP police, meanwhile, have spun an elaborate theory saying the killing was an act of "personal enmity" going back to the time when the couple was in Delhi. But Mehwish and her Delhi-based shelter-providers, Love Commandos, said it was a clear case of murder involving her brothers.
..............................

In the case of the murder of the husband and of his father, it seems clear that the police themselves—likely Muslim themselves, and despite the fact that they serve in civilized India—are covering up the circumstances of their deaths top protect the pious murderers. Appalling.

More:

Yadav added that Hakim's nephew, Salman, had entered into a brawl on June 6 and the alleged killers wanted him to take back the police case lodged against them. "Hakim's death was a result of this feud," said Yadav.
..............................

Instead, this is perfectly common in Dar-al-Islam, where pious Muslims threaten and violently attack anyone who would dare bring charges against them. Of course the police understand this.

More:

The couple, after a 12-year courtship, had secretly married on June 5, 2009. They kept living with their respective parents till Mehwish's family fixed her marriage for November 11, 2010. The couple then eloped on October 29.
..............................

In other words, they intended a *forced marriage* for their daughter. Very, very common.

More:

Mehwish's family then announced a bounty on the couple's capture. In May 2011, the pair started living in a shelter in Delhi provided by Love Commandos, an organization that works to eradicate 'honour killings'. This was the first time they had returned to their village, where Hakim also had a police case lodged against him of kidnapping Mehwish.
..............................

Lots here. Putting out a bounty on victims is very common—in places like Pakistan, there are even hired assassins who will track down couples who have married for love and fled to big cities.

"Pakistan: Honor killers hunting down couples who marry for love"

http://www.jihadwatch.org/2012/02/pakistan-honor-killers-hunting-down-couples-who-marry-for-love.html

Then, the woman's family has falsely accused their son-in-law of having "kidnapped" his wife. Grotesque.

And the very fact that an organization such as Love Commandos exists is proof of how widespread this horror is—even in India. Of course, in many parts of the Muslim world, I doubt that a group like this would be allowed to function, in any case.

More:

The nation became aware of the couple's struggles when they were featured in Aamir Khan's Satyamev Jayate on June 3.

"On June 30, the National Commission for Women ordered UP police to protect the two. But this directive was ignored. They asked Hakim to come down to Bulandshahr to record his statement. When he refused, they never contacted him again"...
..............................

And yet, he was killed *coming from the police station*.

Was his being killed coming from the station a coincidence? At best, the police did nothing to protect this man—at worst, they themselves may actually have alerted his killers.

More:

Meanwhile, a girl was born to the couple bringing fresh hope that relations between the two families would normalize...
..............................

In whose fantasies? They'd just killed the woman's husband and her father-in-law. This isn't some little misunderstanding or family spat.

More:

But that was not to be.

"I didn't know people of my own village had arranged for weapons to kill us. I am the next target," a shocked Mehwish said.
..............................

No offense to this poor woman, who has suffered so horribly, but **Duh**.

I know poster LemonLime wonders whether the victims of "Honor Killings" can really be so unbelievably clueless, but this is yet more proof that this is *very common*.

More:

Hakim's family had moved to Bhargardi village, 2km away from Adoli. But his father, Abdul Hafiz, refused to leave his ancestral house and stayed back. On July 6, 2011 Hakim's nephew Salman visited an ailing Hafiz to know about his well-being and on his way home, he was allegedly assaulted by Mehwish's relatives. When Salman reported the matter to the police, a non-cognizable report was lodged.

Enraged over the police case, the accused allegedly reached the house of an ailing Abul Hafiz, hanged him upside from a tree right outside his house and assaulted him in full public view. When Abdul Hafiz's wife Shahooran, who had come to stay with her ailing husband, intervened, she too was assaulted. Hafiz died hanging from the tree. The police, however, saw the incident as suicide.
..............................

Ah...right...good God.

More:

Aamir Khan said he is aware of the incident and would speak to the authorities to ensure the safety of the rest of the family. He described the murder as "disturbing and unfortunate". "I will speak to government authorities in UP to help and ensure the family is safe. The culprits must be brought to book. The case must be registered on basis of facts," the actor said.
..............................

Would anyone here want to place their lives in the hands of UP police? Hell no.

Mehwish and all of Hakim's surviving family need to flee.

God, I hate Islam.

Granted, this was an honor killing, but how much of it was Islamic and how much of it is the old caste system rearing its head?

"According to Mehwish, her family was opposed to the match because Hakim was poor and belonged to the 'lower' Fakir community."

I've seen Fakir used in both Arabic and Hindu context, so how much of this is simply Indian taboos?

It seems more like an unfortunate mix of cultures. Islam condones the killing but where did the notion come from that the Fakir was 'lower'? That sounds caste-oriented.

"That sounds caste-oriented."--

Islam is a caste system. Even muslims kill each other every day, for millenia now, there's nothing unusual about this story.

"And this is in India, which is hardly Muslim-majority."

While that's technically correct, it obscured the great quantity of Muslims India has: in terms of sheer numbers, India in fact has the most Muslims of any country on Earth -- meanwhile, Indonesia has the highest percentage of Muslims per capita of any country.

In 2009, India had over 160 million Muslims.

Apparently, PEW projected that by 2030 (less than 20 years away), India will have over 236 million Muslims.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/news/datablog/2011/jan/28/muslim-population-country-projection-2030

"...her family was opposed to the match because Hakim was poor and belonged to the 'lower' Fakir community."

Do I see a Bollywood movie in the works? Meet the Fakirs...

PMK: this is all honor killings and it has nothing to do with cast system. cast system is not a muslim thing. when a poor muslim wants to marry a rich muslim this is so looked down upon but they do not kill each other for this. This is honor killing at its best.
M

From the article - "a shelter in Delhi provided by Love Commandos, an organization that works to eradicate 'honour killings'."

'Love Commandos'.

Only in India.

Their work seems to cover the full spectrum - cross-caste couples whether Hindu or Muslim, and mixed-religion couples (though I would like to see them being much, much more wary of and rigorous in cross-checking those cases where a non-Muslim girl has 'fallen' for a Muslim boy - *unless* the boy is manifestly jettisoning Islam and actively embracing his girl's faith/ belief system - for such cases may be different from all the others, and may in fact be examples of 'marriage jihad')

And although the moral equivalencers will insist that the existence of this organisation shows that 'Hindus (or Sikhs) are just like Muslims, see, they disapprove and turn violent if their child marries out of caste/ out of religion', the fact remains that, unlike in Muslim countries, the *law* on the *books* in majority-Hindu secular-government India does *not* forbid or penalise cross-caste and cross-religion marriages, nor does it sanction families killing (or otherwise punishing) children if said children A/ want to marry a spouse of their own choice, for love and/ or B/ choose a spouse outside their caste or religion of origin. An organisation like 'Love Commandos' - working *within* and in accord with a secular system of law and assisting young people who (as the law permits them to do) marry for love despite parental and familial disapproval - would not be conceivable in a Muslim society.

Robert Spencer wrote,

Longtime Jihad Watch readers may notice that I have posted the following information [honor killing statistics] before. And I will continue to post it...

For the quickest possible education of the largest possible number of people, ceaseless repetition of key points often makes sense. For example:

In a core Islamic text, Muhammad says there is to be no punishment for murdering someone who insults him

From Sunan Abu-Dawud, a canonical hadith collection:
Book 38, Number 4348:

Narrated Abdullah Ibn Abbas [a companion of Muhammad, Ibn Abbas was also an expert on the Qur'an]:

A blind man had a slave-mother [a slave who bore children for him] who used to abuse the Prophet (peace be upon him) and disparage him. He [the blind man] forbade her but she did not stop. He rebuked her but she did not give up her habit. One night she began to slander the Prophet (peace be upon him) and abuse him. So he [the blind man] took a dagger, placed it on her belly, pressed it, and killed her. A child who came between her legs was smeared with the blood that was there. When the morning came, the Prophet (peace be upon him) was informed about it.

He assembled the people and said: I adjure by Allah the man who has done this action and I adjure him by my right to him that he should stand up. Jumping over the necks of the people and trembling the man stood up.

He sat before the Prophet (peace be upon him) and said: Apostle of Allah! I am her master; she used to abuse you and disparage you. I forbade her, but she did not stop, and I rebuked her, but she did not abandon her habit. I have two sons like pearls from her, and she was my companion. Last night she began to abuse and disparage you. So I took a dagger, put it on her belly and pressed it till I killed her.

Thereupon the Prophet (peace be upon him) said: Oh be witness, no retaliation is payable for her blood.

Another canonical hadith:

Sunan Abu-Dawud, Book 38, Number 4349:

Narrated Ali ibn Abu Talib [cousin and son-in-law of Muhammad, and first male convert to Islam]:

A Jewess used to abuse the Prophet (peace be upon him) and disparage him. A man strangled her till she died. The Apostle of Allah (peace be upon him) declared that no recompense was payable for her blood.

-- Quoting Islam

This is what they do to each other. Think of what they will do to us.....

Sorry about the two bad links in my comment above. The source site periodically changes the link code.

Here are the two correct links to the two hadiths just quoted:

Sunan abu Dawud, 38.4348

Sunan abu Dawud, 38.4349

LL wrote: "...in terms of sheer numbers, India in fact has the most Muslims of any country on Earth -- meanwhile, Indonesia has the highest percentage of Muslims per capita of any country."

That's not correct. Indonesia has the largest number of Muslims (about 205 million), followed by Pakistan (about 178 million).

The second part of the claim appears to involve some kind of erroneous usage of the phrase per capita.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Per_capita

Anyways, Indonesia does have a large percentage of Muslims (about 88%), but it does not have the largest percentage. There are at least 30 countries with more than 90% Muslims.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_Muslim_population

Robert Spencer wrote "And I will continue to post it, as long as the near-universal denial and obfuscation continues, which I expect will be until right around the time that hell freezes over."

Then we must continue to fight until hell freezes over...and then we will fight them on the ice.

A doctor I work for was talking today about how Medicare will soon require doctors to transition to computerized medical records. He said rather bitterly that the government says doctors will be "free" to refuse to do computerized medical records -- but will have to pay a fine if refusing. I used that opportunity to point out that there is something similar in Islam. One is not necessarily forced to become a Muslim, but if one refuses to become a Muslim, Islamic law discriminates very onerously against one.

I was too hasty. I had heard that factoid and didn't follow through thoroughly enough. It made sense, because India is to astronomically more populous than Indonesia. However, there still remains a fudge factor of estimates that are years old, and one would have to assume that rates are changing relatively equally in both countries. The current CIA Factbook, for example, only has a 2001 estimate of the percentage of Muslims as 13.4%. Obviously, with a country of over one billion and two hundred million (and still growing) and with Muslims always aggrandizing, that's quite a fudge factor.

The caste system is alive and well within the muslim community.

The traditional occupation of the Faqir remains begging, although there is a gradual movement towards other occupations. Many are now involved in the selling of baskets, crockery and other crafts.

A great majority are now wage labourers. The community has now been given Other Backward Classes status, which entitle them to quotas in jobs and education. But they remain an extremely marginal Muslim community.

You wrote: 'Granted, this was an honor killing, but how much of it was Islamic and how much of it is the old caste system rearing its head?'

You assume there is 'Islam' and 'Culture'. Islam *is* the culture! The culture *is* Islamic!

It's an old trick to take the heat off Islam that 'culture', not Islam is to blame for anything that reflects badly on Islam.

Culture and Islam are inseperable!


a war of cultures..well..well. who would have thought!

Honor Killings in Muslim Majority Nations

In Muslim countries women are killed for many "honor" related reasons, including being raped, associating with non-related males, getting pregnant outside of marriage, and for the belief they might have done something else immoral. In the eyes of her family this is a capital crime which demands her death in order to restore the family's honor. The entire family may all collaborate on this, and in some cases the whole community may participate and even celebrate the occasion.

In the eyes of Muslims honor is everything. If a person loses their honor they become like an animal. The significance of honor among Muslims is strict and complex. In the Muslim world, most families follow a collectivist identity. families take pride in the accomplishments of individual members and feel shame if one of them does something dishonorable. The family plays a role in every aspect of the Muslim world. A person has to consider the immediate and extended family, even the neighbors, before they act upon what they want to do. They have to take into consideration how they will react.

Most of the Muslim world is built upon a patriarchal society where the men are the leaders of the family and women are to be obedient. Men hold all of the power in the marriage. They are allowed to have up to four wives and divorce them anytime they want to. The process for a divorce is much more difficult for a woman to obtain without her husband's permission and Muslim law favors the rights of the husband in terms of child custody over the rights of the woman.

A woman's activities are carefully monitored by her family. Her virginity is considered their responsibility and she is dominated by men her entire life, beginning with her father, then husband, and finally her sons.When a woman's chastity is questioned, her family feels the shame. As a result of her shame, the family is compromised.

Honor killing is a subject which is not discussed within the Qur'an or Hadith collections. However, Islam (as most Muslims will proudly testify) differs from other religions by being a complete system which governs even the most mundane aspects of ones life. Islamic Law consists of Shari'ah (Qur'an and Sunnah), and Fiqh, which is a complementary expansion of Sharia. Therefore, Muslim scholars have not failed to address this issue. According to the the highly regarded book of Fiqh, "Reliance of the Traveller: A Classic Manual of Islamic Sacred Law which has been approved by Al-Azhar University (the most respected Islamic authority in the world), no retaliation is permitted against a father or mother "for killing their offspring, or offspring's offspring". Also, according to Ali Sina of Faith Freedom International, it is the logical consequence of Islamic misogyny and upbringing where woman are seen as awra or Arabic for vagina and are weak and mentally deficient:

"Women in Islam are seen as sexual beings. Every part of their body is thought to be erotic. Every square inch of her, is sexual. She must cover from head to toe, because her entire body is perceived to be private parts.
In Pakistan, women are called awra. Awra or aurat means the part of the body that has to be covered. Exposing the Awra is unlawful in Islam and is regarded as sin. Etymologically, the term Awra derives from the root ‘a-w-r which means "defectiveness", "imperfection", "blemish" or "weakness" – however the most common English translation is "nakedness".

The Islamic regime of Iran calls women zaifeh. It’s the feminine for “weak.” This implies also mental weakness since according to Muhammad women are deficient in intelligence. This sums up the status of woman in Islam. You can’t be more explicit than this.

In a society that women are seen as weak, defective and private part, any contact that they may have with men is deemed to be sexual and unlawful.

Women in Muslim countries are segregated. From the very childhood boys and girls are kept apart. They don’t play with each other, don’t go to school with each other, don’t ride on the same bus, and don’t shake hand or have eye contact. Any contact with women can arouse the pious Muslim men sexually, which would not only cause him to sin, but also would dishonor her male relatives.

The Quran (4:34) says men are in charge of women. The same verse says “good women are the obedient, guarding in secret that which Allah hath guarded.”

The secret is their awra. Since in Islam the woman’s whole body is considered to be sexual, they must cover every part of their body and avoid contact with stranger men. Verse 24:31 says believing women must lower their gaze, be modest and they should draw their veils over their bosoms and not display their beauty to strangers.

A Muslim woman’s entire body is private part. So if you shake hand with her it is the same as touching her crotch. If she displays her hair, it is as exposing her pubic hair. Everything in her is sexual and private part.

In Islam women are the namoos (ناموس) of their male relatives. Namoos can be roughly translated as honor, but with a sexual connotation. The namoos of a Muslim hinges on protecting his female kin from prying eyes. If a woman displays her beauty or talks to a stranger man, the namoos of all her male relatives is injured. The only way to redeem an injured namoos is to wash the stain with blood."

- Ali Sina, Faith Freedom International, February 9, 2010

http://www.wikiislam.net/wiki/Honor_Related_Violence

>>>>>

We ex-Muslims living with Islam's formal and informal death penalty for apostasy know for certain that Islam is an evil religion/ideology both in part and on the whole.

Here is a recent statement from a group of Bangladeshi apostates living in the UK explaining the reasons why they have abandoned Islam:

"One who claims to be a messenger of God is expected to live a saintly life. He must not be given to lust, he must not be a sexual pervert, and he must not be a rapist, a highway robber, a war criminal, a mass murderer or an assassin. One who claims to be a messenger of God must have a superior character. He must stand above the vices of the people of his time. Yet Muhammad’s life is that of a gangster godfather. He raided merchant caravans, looted innocent people, massacred entire male populations and enslaved the women and children. He raped the women captured in war after killing their husbands and told his followers that it is okay to have sex with their captives (Qur'an 33:50). He assassinated those who criticized him and executed them when he came to power and became de facto despot of Arabia. Muhammad was bereft of human compassion. He was an obsessed man with his dreams of grandiosity and could not forgive those who stood in his way...

The statement continues,

Muhammad was a narcissist, like Hitler, Saddam or Stalin. He was astute and knew how to manipulate people, but his emotional intelligence was less evolved than that of a 6-year-old child. He simply could not feel the pain of others. He brutally massacred thousands of innocent people and pillaged their wealth. His ambitions were big and as a narcissist he honestly believed he is entitled to do as he pleased and commit all sorts of crimes and his evil deeds are justified."

somebody better start mapping their progress! every mosque, every civic center, every step along their way to our dominance must be watched. beware

somebody better start mapping their progress. every mosque, every "community center", every step along the way to our dominance! beware

Actually, India has the 4th largest #Muslims - ~150m. It's first Indonesia, then Pakistan, then Bangladesh, then India. But yeah, they are a huge vote bank and almost all parties, except the BJP, vie for their votes.

And that's the crux of the problem. The result is that they are more than happy to help cover up Muslim crimes in lieu of that support, which usually is tied to backing up Muslim thuggery. And that explains the actions of the UP police - police in India owe their jobs to the various state governments in power at all times, and are therefore always under heavy political pressure. The most frewuent

Back TFA, my first thoughts - Truth - stranger - fiction! As far as the victims themselves go, my reaction here is Darwinism @ work. I've never had any problems w/ Muslims killing off each other, and never will.

From the above description, it sounds like a combination of an honor killing and family feud, and since the wife's family was of a higher status, they got away w/ murder. I'm surprised they didn't try to kill her as well - having given birth, it's not like anyone else will marry her.

One thing about the 'caste' angle - in not only India, but also in Pakistan and Bangladesh, Muslims very much have a caste structure of their own - it's nothing like the global ummah that they parrot out to the rest of the world, particularly to the so called caste-ridden Hindus. As Hugh used to note, the most interesting was the proliferation of 'Sayyids', or descendants of Mohammed, who did not have that many offspring to spread around.

As to someone's question about Fakir, it's an exclusively Muslim concept - fakir is an Urdu term which has made its way into Hindi, w/ the result that people who talk about Hindu fakirs are simply using the wrong terminology.

And GravenImage is right about how deluded these people are - having gotten out of rural UP to get to Delhi, where they were much safer, they stupidly went back to their village, and got killed.

It'll be interesting to see how Aamir Khan, who's in the past been in bed w/ Leftist activists in India, handles this opposition from Muslim thugs.

I forgot a sentence above - The most frequent repercussions that police face from politicians is getting transferred. Personally, it's very disruptive to their personal lives, but at the same time, they can't claim that they got fired - they didn't, they can't claim that they got punished - where's the proof? but all the same, it's another move that they are forced to make. As a result, most police are happy to simply oblige whoever is in power, and when governments change, some of them get transferred due to their loyalty to the previous government.

Orthodox, Protestants, and Catholics jointly withdraw, saying assembly marginalizes non-Islamists.

Read more: http://www.maghrebchristians.com/2012/11/27/egyptian-churches-give-up-on-helping-to-create-new-constitution/#ixzz2DQJsap7J

Youssef

This is very much an islamic honor killing, no matter how we look at it. In my country (India), it is not only muslims who try to whitewash their ill deeds, it is a national pastime with politicians of all shades and their subservient officials, including police. By appeasing muslims, politicians are asking Hindus to set up their own funeral pyres (equivalent to digging their own graves).

You assume there is 'Islam' and 'Culture'. Islam *is* the culture! The culture *is* Islamic!

That's a very important point in our war-of-ideas arsenal.

Since Islam subsumes every aspect of life -- from what fork to use to eat, to what hand to use to pee with, to how to go the bathroom, to what shampoo to use, to how to organize your family relations, to how you do business, to the laws of the land, to how you think about life, to how you feel about life, to what is the absolute truth about the meaning of life now and for all eternity -- obviously Islam provides a complete package of a totalitarian culture; and that's where the supremacism of Islam comes in: this culture Islam provides is supposed to supplant, to replace, the culture of the land Muslims are moving into slash (pun intended) invading , just as it is to supplant and replace the culture of the individual convert.

P.S.: Another way to put it, Muslims long ago realized (and it's more or less enshrined in the Koran-Sunna) that unless Islam takes over the culture, Islam will never quite have the power and dominance it deserves to have.

The modern view of religion now sees it as one type of sphere (with many different flavors) within a wider social space.

Some Christians may sulk and begrudge this fait accompli of modern Western secularism but, as the Founding Fathers knew, it's for the best: it's really the only way to optimize sociopolitical order and harmony, given that humans will inevitable fracture into competing groups who advocate, claim to know, and promise the Absolute Truth about the Meaning of Life. Obviously, when a society has multiple Absolute Truths about the Meaning of Life jostling their elbows, the entire society cannot ally itself with any one of them -- for that would grant too much power to one of them over the others. So to maximize social harmony, we need a "Secular Umbrella" so to speak, a general "Big Tent" that is agnostic, non-partisan, neutral -- in which dwell the multiple Absolute Truths about the Meaning of Life.

Of course, this isn't a perfect system, and there are aspects to this "Secular Umbrella" by which it's not so wonderfully neutral, but seems to be advocating -- or at least a bit too chummy with -- those who take the stand on Absolute Truth of liberal (and libertine) relativism. However, we may not have a third choice in the matter, between 1) a domination of one group over all others; or 2) a neutral sociopolitical space that permits all groups as close to equal liberty and participation as possible, even if the very nature of the neutrality seems to condone that one particular Absolute Truth of Liberal Relativism.

That said, there is nothing essentially pertaining to this system of the Neutral Umbrella that would logically compel its supporters to countenance Islam; and in fact, there is full accomodation for a robust condemnation of Islam as, precisely an anti-liberal threat to the entire sutructure of the Neutral Umbrella itself.

The 2010 estimate by PEW, cited in my previous post (see wikipedia link), puts India at 177 million Muslims, slightly behind Pakistan's 178 million Muslims.

Both are far behind Indonesia's 205 million Muslims.

The 2010 PEW estimate puts Bangladesh at 149 million Muslims, behind India's 177 million Muslims.

because love is Un-Islamic...

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