"Palestinian" Muslims sing: "Strike a blow at Tel Aviv"

Who would have thought mere decades ago, that we would have our own media cheering on the jihad - a disease of the divided West, where large portions of our population are collaborators in support of the death cult, who cannot discern between good and evil, offence against the living and defense of the living?

Reality is going to hit home very hard and soon, and this fuzzy distinction between good and evil will get a lot clearer.

I would rather see them sing than whine.

In that 'song', there is a line about destroying what the Jews build.

That is what Muslims do everywhere: *smash* what others have built, in an orgiastic frenzy of ritual annihilation.

One of the first things the Arab Muslims did, when the Jews of Israel left Gaza, leaving behind state-of-the-art greenhouses, in perfect working order, that could have been used to produce food for the people in Gaza and food for export, was to smash and loot said greenhouses in an orgy of mindless, diabolic vandalism.

Interestingly enough, that vandalism of those Jewish greenhouses which - left intact - could have grown fruit and flowers for home consumption and for sale - is identical with something that John Roy Carlson witnessed in 1948, when he was travelling 'under cover' in the Middle East, posing as an American Islamophile and former admirer of Nazis in order to gain the confidence of the Arab Muslims among whom he moved.

Here is his description of what the Arab Muslims, in an ecstasy of vindictive stupidity, did to a fully-functioning fertilizer factory that fell into their hands because it was within territory seized by Muslim Jordan. Rather than simply take it over and use it to make fertilizer to use on farmers' fields, or to sell, they *smashed* it.

Chapter 20, 'Philadelphia is in Jordan'.

"When I arrived at the marketplace [of Jericho] it was already teeming with traffic...Trucks were arriving with scrap lumber, metal, pipes, and assorted machinery from the direction of the Dead Sea. I decided to investigate.

"In an Armenian barbershop on Jericho's main street, I met a young refugee from Jerusalem named Torkom. Together we got into a bus going in the direction of the Dead Sea, then walked the remaining distance over the semi-arid baked earth.

"Vast brine evaporation beds...met the eye in all directions, connected by miles of pipelines.

"Beyond them was the huge plant of Palestine Potash Ltd (a once highly profitable British corporation owned jointly by British and Jewish capital) which converted the fabulous mineral wealth of the Dead Sea into common salt, bromides, and chlorides of magnesium, potassium, and calcium.

"Photographing as I went along, I saw, with Torkom, a sight that sickened me.

"The huge plant, stretching over many acres, with its generators, transformers, pumps, and a thousand and one irreplaceable items of machinery - transported at tremendous cost from England and the United States - **was systematically being looted and destroyed: building by building, machine by machine, board by board** {my emphasis - dda}.

"Hundreds of Arab [sic: Arab MUSLIM - dda} scavengers, working with teams of donkeys, mules, and trucks, had already stripped away most of the vital working parts, and were now tearing at the corrugated tin, pipes, wire, boards, and small machines. **What they could not take apart they smashed with sledge hammers** {my emphasis - dda}.

"Instead of utilizing the giant plant, or at least expropriating some of the equipment for constructive purposes - in a land so desperately in need of lumber, glass, ironwork and all else that was in such abundance here - **they were destroying everything, ruthlessly, cold-bloodedly, insanely** {my emphasis - dda}.

"The plant already looked like a miniature Hiroshima, minus the ravages of fire.

" And this wanton destruction was more or less officially sanctioned by Trans-Jordan officials. A dozen Arab Legion guards were on hand to keep law and order among the looters."
END.

I guarantee that once the Americans and every other non-Muslim leaves Iraq and Afghanistan, every single thing that they tried to build there for the common good - schools, bridges, roads, hospitals, you-name- it - will be obsessively *smashed* in a similar manner.

‘Further on, I saw the remains of Hotel Kallia, a noted winter resort on the shores of the Dead Sea.

"Near by were the ruins of the cottages built by the Palestine Potash Corporation to house not only officials engineers and labourers, but scientists and archaeologists.

"About a mile away, I saw what was left of Beit Harava, a settlement founded by the Jews, who had brought water there to make the desert bloom, so that trees and flowers grew 1,300 feet below sea level.

“When the war broke out the isolated colonists packed away their belongings, automobiles and all, and set sail during the night for the southern shore, site of a smaller potash concession.

“I found their homes stripped to the ground, with only the framework of a few houses remaining. I walked through one ruined home, where sash, doors, and flooring were all gone.

"Unable to rip off the toilet bowl, the Arabs had broken it in half.

“Overwhelmed by this destruction all about us, Torkom and I walked on to the shores of the Dead Sea itself…I found wrecked boats; pilfered wreckage dotted the shore as far as the eye could reach.

“Torkom and I silently hitch-hiked back to Jericho on a large truck laden with plunder.

"Our scavenger friends drove straight to the bazaar and began to sell their loot as junk – which was what they had made out of the once valuable machinery and equipment”.

As John Quincy Adams said: the fruits of Islam are "desolation and delusion".

By way of riposte to the frenzied threats of the jihadists.

Daniel Reich singing the 23rd Psalm (in haunting counterpoint to passages from Psalm 2, about the raging of the [hostile] nations') in Jerusalem, in March and again in August 2008:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oQNOCeJIC8M&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o5sjqoYCm10

What is being sung, in Hebrew (for the translation, just look up the two Psalms in any English bible):

Psalm 23: 1-4.
Adonai ro-i., lo ehsar
Bin’ot deshe yarbitseini,
Al mei m’nuhot y’nahaleini,
Naf’shi y’shovev
Yan’heini b’ma’aglei tsedek.
L’ma’an sh’mo.
Gam ki eilech
B’gei tsalmavet,
Lo ira ra,
Ki Atah imadi.
Shiv’t’cha umishan’techa
Hemah y’nahamuni.

Psalm 2: 1-4.
Lamah rag’shu goyim
Ul’umim yeh’gu rik?
Yit’yats’vu malchei erets,
V’roznim nos’du yahad
Al Adonai v’al m’shiho.
N’natkah et mos’roteimo,
V’nashlichah mimenu avoteimo.
Yoshev bashamayim
Yis’hak, Adonai
Yil’ag lamo!

Psalm 23: 5-6.
Ta’aroch l’fanai shulchan
Neged tsor’rai.
Dishanta vashemen roshi
Cosi r’vayah.
Ach tov vahesed
Yird’funi kol y’mei hayai,
V’shav’ti b’veit Adonai
L’orech yamim.

Psalm 131 and Psalm 133, verse 1:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=txJ25AxvG6A

Islam produces frenzied, hysterical, bloodthirsty ravings; while out of the House of Israel comes, over and over again, transcendent moments of pure and absolute beauty.

Israel is absolutely within its right to respond to these rocket volleys with force. These attacks are clearly the work of foreign (Iranian and possibly others)elements, who are using Gaza as a launching pad, and Palestinians as human shields. But broadening this conflict into an all-out ground war, or the scorched earth and ethnic cleansing policies advocated by some (Gilad Sharon, etc.) would be a disaster for Israel. The latter would make the country an international pariah, and the former would result in a regional war with Egypt, Iran, etc., that Israel could not survive.

This is not 1973. Egypt now has a much stronger military and an Islamist government, Iran is an Islamist theocracy, formerly friendly Turkey is a defacto Islamist state, and aid and cannon fodder is on tap from a host of now independent and well-off Muslim contries. The economies of U.S. and Europe are struggling to keep from sliding into a major recession, and could not withstand the effects of an oil embargo. Antagonizing OPEC with strong support for Israel is not going to happen.

While, in the short term, retaliating against rocket attacks with the same makes good sense for Israel, a long-term solution will not be military. Refusing to concede to Palestinian statehood has turned Palestine/Gaza into a vacuum that Iran and other Israeli enemies can exploit.

Ladies and gentlemen

observe YGM 76700, above, trying to pretend that all the local Muslims are innocent little lambs who are being manipulated by 'foreign elements', and if only Israel would give up 'land for peace', and allow an Arab Islamic State of 'Palestine' to be created in Jerusalem and Judea and Samaria (in union with Gaza, presumably? how? see the civil war break out between the Fast Jihadists of Hamas and the Slow Jihadists of Fatah?) everything in the garden would be lovely...

PIFFLE. BULLSHIT.

This is merely the usual mohammedan goodcop/ badcop shapeshifting tactic - it's always those other people over there.

Anyone moderately familiar with the territory and the history, anyone who has spent even a small amount of time absorbing what is translated of the 'Palestinian' media - across the board - from MEMRI and Palestinian Media Watch, knows that ALL the *local* Arab Muslims and their Islamochristian dhimmi water-carriers are as thoroughly imbued with vicious Jew-hatred and the ideology of Jihad as anybody else in the entire Ummah.

Martha Gellhorn spoke to *lots* of local 'Palestinian' Arab Muslims in 1960, in Lebanon, in Jordan, in Jerusalem, in Gaza (then ruled by Egypt, and saturated with frenzied and rabidly antisemitic agitprop), and *in villages inside Israel proper*, *within 'the 1967 - that is, the PRE-seixdaywar - borders*; and she saw the thoroughly-Islamic hate and supremacism and malignant narcissism - and the endless nonsense and lies, the madhattery, the Bullshit - plain as daylight.

And so did John Roy Carlson also see it, in 1948; in fact, being Armenian by ethnicity, he was on one occasion, in the hills of Judea, mistaken for a Jew, by an elderly local Arab Muslim, and came within an ace of having his throat slit, until the Muslim who was travelling with him vouched for him under his assumed identity as an American Arabophile and Islamophile; the old man with the big knife was *deeply* disappointed to find out that his intended sacrificial victim, by whom he'd hoped to gain mega brownie points with allah, was *not* a Yahood after all.

The local Arab Muslims are indistinguishably part of the Ummah, or Mohammedan Mob, and share its attitudes - including the virulent Jew-hatred - and its goals; and most of the remnants of the local Christians still living among them (those that the Muslims have not yet driven out..or killed, as Rami Ayyad - for breaking the unwritten Rules For Dhimmis, by running a Bible Shop in Gaza City, and attempting to evangelise Muslims - was killed) are toeing the line, because if they don't, they know what to expect.

The Arab Muslim who slit the throat of Hadass Fogel was not a 'foreign element' (that is, he was not Iranian, nor acting on behalf of Shiite Islamic Iran; he was not an Afghan or a Pakistani, he was a Levantine Arab Muslim). And so were any number of others who have gotten arrested for stabbings and rock-throwings and poisonings and plots to poison and for attempting - but failing to achieve - suicide bombings, and the like. Those who in Ramallah tore two unarmed Jewish reservists limb from limb and then danced hysterically holding in their bloodied hands **fragments of fresh human entrails ripped from the still-warm bodies** were not 'foreign elements', they were *local Arab Muslims*.

The U.S. government is getting ready to evacuate its citizens from the region:

http://security.blogs.cnn.com/2012/11/19/u-s-sends-warships-near-israel-in-case-evacuation-needed/?hpt=hp_t1

@dumbledoresarmy,

Religious animosity is, sadly, ingrained in this region, and not just antisemitism by Mulsims:

http://rt.com/news/catholics-christian-vandalism-hate-598/

And those rockets are, by the admission of Hamas, NOT homebrew weapons. They are coming from Iran, which may mean Russian AND Armenian involvement in the chain of transit. Because of Iranian and Armenian conflicts with Azerbaijan (a Shi'a Muslim country that's friendly with Israel), Armenia has supported Iran, including allowing its border to be used as a transit point for Russian weapons going to Iran.

Psalm 121, sung in Hebrew by one Yosef Karduner

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vHwDuygn-jE&feature=related

Shir lama`alot. Esa einai el heharim: me'ayin yavo ezriy?
Ezriy me'im haShem ose shamaim ve'aretz.
Al yiten lammot raglecha, al yanum shomerecha.
Hineh, lo yanum velo yiyshan shomer yisrael.
HaShem shomereja
HaShemi tsileja al yad yemineja.
yomam hashemesh lo yakeka veyareaj balailah.
HaShem yishmareja mikol ra'ah yishmor et nafsheja.
HaShem yishmar tsetja ubo'eja
me'ata ve'ad olam

And the classic English version that I - raised in a good Presbyterian household - learned by heart as a child, along with about a dozen others (so YGM is talking absolute nonsense and indeed pushing something like the Marcionite heresy, when he claims that Christianity - more than half of whose Bible consists of the translated TaNaKh, the very same TaNaKh written and used by the Hebrews, now commonly referred to as Jews [pars pro toto] - has nothing to do with Judaism and the Jews or the House of Israel)

"I will lift up mine eyes unto the hills:
from whence cometh my help.
My help cometh from the LORD [that is, YHWH, ha-shem]
who made heaven and earth.
He shall not suffer thy foot to be moved; he that keepeth thee shall not slumber.
Behold, he that keepeth Israel shall neither slumber nor sleep.
The LORD is thy keeper; the LORD is thy shade upon thy right hand.
The sun shall not smite thee by day; nor the moon by night.
The LORD shall preserve thee from all evil; he shall preserve thy soul;
the LORD shall preserve thy going out and thy coming in
from this time forth and even for ever more."

If they ever got a hold of Abraham (whom they claim is their father) they would behead him. The same for Jesus, Moses and all the other Jews.

Ladies and gentlemen

observe YGM 76700 busy Bullshitting (for the technical definition of Bullshit, see Harry Frankfurt's book 'On Bullshit') and Tokyo-Rose-ing away, above.

And nonsensically attempting moral equivalence between the Jews of Israel and the Ummah, or Mohammedan Mob.

To give an idea of the nature of that Mob, the murderous human gestalt that Israel, the Jews, and the *entire* infidel world have been facing for 1400 years,

here again is John Roy Carlson, from chapter 9 'the holy city', of his book "From Cairo to Damascus", describing what happened immediately after the 'Battle of the Roads' between a Haganah force and an Arab Muslim force, as the Haganah force were returning from supplying Gush Etzion. In that battle twelve Jews and 138 Muslims were killed.

Here is Carlson's account of the aftermath.

"The next day on sale everywhere in the Holy City were gruesome photographs of the battle: the burnt and mutilated bodies of Haganah men, *which for some perverse Arab reason, had been stripped of clothing and photographed in the nude* {my emphasis added - dda}.
"These naked shots hit 'Holy' City markets afresh *after every battle* {my emphasis added - dda}, and sold rapidly.

"Arabs carried them in their wallets and displayed them frequently, getting the same weird subnormal 'kick' that our perverts derive from nude photographs of women." END QUOTE.

Aaah, the pooor 'palestinians', those sweet, innocent little lambs who 'just want their own secular state' - slavering over 'dirty postcard' photographs of dead, burned, mutilated (probably castrated, disembowelled, etc)...Jews.
The 1948 equivalent of the beheading videos of today.
Necrophilia. Jihad porn.

*That*'s what we're fighting.

YGM's moniker should be 'Tokyo Rose'.

Awhile ago, a very very foolish Jew named Richard Cohen wrote a newspaper piece in which he referred to the founding of the modern Jewish state of Israel as a 'mistake'.

He and YGM would have got along swimmingly.

He was resoundingly challenged in the Jewish blogosphere, both here:

http://www.yourish.com/2006/07/18/1702

'Ignorance on parade: Richard Cohen’s mistakes'

and also on a blog called 'Kesher Talk' which appears to have gone from the Internet.

However, at the time, someone called Judith, commenting at that blog, in June 2007, made two excellent and lucid postings in response to the 'arguments' that are made by the likes of Cohen, and that are used by the likes of YGM to pressure Israel to place itself in a position of absolute defencelessness vis a vis the Ummah, or Mohammedan Mob, the Empire of Islam.

I copied and kept Judith's postings. I will re-post them. Those with more internet expertise than I may well be able to retrieve them from the recesses of the net, where things vanish but where things may also be squirrelled away.

Here it is:

"Ironically, Cohen engages in his own Holocaust denial.

"He erases the history of the peoples brutally conquered by Islam, and then characterises them as latecomers to a Muslim land.

"This is Orwellian revisionism, propagandized by the radical Islamists to the Western intellectual elite, eventually becoming conventional wisdom by the time it filters down to Cohen.

"Like Pravda airbrushing people out of photographs, the Islamists not only rewrite history books but destroy evidence to the contrary, including their own history.

"They turn remnants of the Jewish Temple into a parking lot, blow up huge Buddhist sculptures and demolish ancient mosques in Mecca and Medina and Bosnia.

"Like all totalitarians, they hate the stubborn persistence of facts.

"These folks could teach David Irving a thing or two.
Cohen is not nefarious, just ignorant, so somebody please buy him a copy of Andrew Bostom's book. Also the Historical Atlas of the Jewish People; all he has to do is look at the maps.

I'm serious. If you have some disposable income, make him a gift package from Amazon.

[ I just wanted to put this up before I went to bed tonight, because I hate this shit. It never ends, and I'm used to hearing it from DU and Indy habitues, but a WaPo pundit reciting it is just a bit too much. I'll add links to some of the historical stuff tomorrow. I wrote this off the top of my head and I know enough history to know I got the broad outline right and the approximate dates. If you catch any errors or want to fill in any details, email me or leave a comment.

UPDATE: In progress. All links are historical (using primary sources) rather than polemical. ]

“PS. A companion piece to this could examine Cohen's [author of Washington Post article arguing Israel was ‘a mistake’]
misunderstanding of **the deep rage of the Muslim world at the effrontery of a Jewish state in their midst.** {my emphasis - dda}

"**It's not exactly because Israel was forced upon "Muslim land" by the Europeans.** {my emphasis - dda}.

"It's because they know Israel is historically the land of the Jews, they believe Muslims are supposed to rule over Jews (and everyone else), and the existence of a Jewish state where Jews rule themselves in their original homeland which they [the Jews - dda] wrested back from the [Muslim - dda] conquerors is intolerable, and the Europeans enabled this to happen.

"It is exactly the same deep rage and humiliation felt by the former slave-owners in the post-Civil War South toward their former slaves, and toward the Northerners who enabled freed blacks to walk among their former owners.

:Why anyone wants to defend this attitude is beyond me."

Judith | 07/18/06 at 01:58 AM |

And she followed it up with this:

"Israel is not a mistake, but the correction of a mistake.

"Richard Cohen's telling and deliberate omission- the Jews of the Middle East, from Morocco to Iran- points us towards the single most obvious reason why.

"Without any resort to biblical history, or recounting of the holocaust, the Jews of the Middle East provide Israel with an absolute, irrevocable raison d'etre which follows logically from basic principles.

"That is why people questioning Israel's existence never mention them.

{Or , in a later and transparent attempt at 'split the camp', try to represent the Mizrahi Jews as victims of Ashkenazi 'racism'...- dda}.

"All people are deserving of life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness.

"It's the foundation of the Declaration of Independence of the United States.

"Any cultural group, deprived of rights, made into second class citizens, abused by a government and given no right or avenue for redress, is deserving of an independent, free nation.

"This applies to Middle Eastern Jews.

"The very fact that the nations in which they lived called themselves "islamic" deprived Jewish residents of the most fundamental right of a free person- the right to be considered an equal under the law.

"Since, not being Muslim, no Jew could ever participate in the making of law in an Islamic nation- as an equal- he is by definition a second class citizen.

"Claims of fair treatment of Jews by Muslims are irrelevant- a well kept house slave is still a slave, and as long as a Jew cannot be a political equal by virtue of his religion, he is not a true citizen- IN HIS NATIVE LAND!

"Claims of fair treatment of Jews by Muslims are also false, as made evident by documented, repeated cases of mass violence perpetrated against them, for which the governments offered no protection, and no justice.

"Since there is no avenue for democratic redress, the Jews of the Middle East were entitled, as Human Beings, indigenous to the region, to independence- NO LESS
than the people represented by the HUNDRED OTHER INDEPENDENCE MOVEMENTS the world has by and large supported over the past century.

"So the Middle Eastern Jews have a HUMAN RIGHT to a free and independent state-

OR the muslims can alter their governments to allow Jews to function as their political equals.

"Since the latter is not going to happen {and she is 100 % correct about that - dda} the former is essential..".

"Since the Jews of the Middle East have a right to a free and independent state, IN THE MIDDLE EAST, it is only rational that it be located where, historically, their culture has been centered. Israel.

"Since the Jews of the Middle East have a right to a free and independent state, sovereign and autonomous, it follows that they have the right to determine their own immigration policies.

"Since they have the right to determine immigration policies, they have the right to invite in anyone they choose, be it an immigrant from Ethiopia or Russia. No nation has the right to tell another who is acceptable as an immigrant.

"A naturalized citizen in a free nation has all the rights of a native citizen.

"Since they have the same rights, the European immigrant citizens are JUST AS LEGITIMATE as the native Middle Eastern Jews.

"So, Israel is not a mistake, not illegitimate, the European Jews have every right to be there, and this all flows from the existence of native Middle Eastern Jews and the refusal of the Muslims to grant them equal rights, coupled with the VERY SAME PRINCIPLES OUTLINED IN THE DECLARATION OF INDEPENDENCE.

"And THAT is why no one attacking Israel's existence ever mentions them."..{or, these days, tries to set them against the Ashkenazim and Sephardim, in the very typical Mohammedan strategy of 'split the camp' - as if the sons and daughters of the three different but deeply-and-demonstrably-genetically-kin branches of the House of Israel, had not been and are not in fact busily intermarrying with one another, which they began doing the moment they came in contact with one another on the soil of eretz Yisroel... - dda}.
Judith | 07/18/06 at 02:53 PM

A lovely visual meditation on the music of one setting of the Aramaic Jewish sabbath hymn, Yah Ribon 'Olam, which was composed in Gaza around 1600 by the then Chief Rabbi of Gaza, Israel Najara (d. 1625)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tOrSnkeNR44&feature=related

One traditional Sephardic version of this hymn

http://hibba.org/node/396

"G-d the Master of all Worlds, You are the Ruler, above all rulers. Your mighty deeds and wonders, it is beautiful​ to declare before You.

I will sing Your praises in the morning and the evenings, to You Holy G-d Who created every soul, the angels above, all people, and the beasts that roam the grounds and the birds of the sky.

Your creations are great and awesome, You Who lowers the high ones and straightens out the bent ones, even if a man lives a thousand years he wont be able to understand Your greatness, or that even a thousand years aren’t enough for a man to calculate Your greatness.

G-d to You is the honor and glory, please redeem Your sheep from the clenched teeth of the lions who prey on them and take Your nation out of exile.

Return to Your temple and to the Holy of Holies where every soul and spirit shall sing Your praises in Jerusalem the city of beauty."

Dumbledore, I have always enjoyed your posts, but , I must say that you have outdone yourself tonight.
Thank you!

dumbledoresarmy,

I am very grateful for your posts and learn so much from them. I love reading your various quotations. By your intellectual energy, you save a great deal of mine, treating me to adventures and entertainment of the mind without my having to work much for it. Thank you, and thank you again. You put a lot of energy into all this posting, and a lot of people learn a lot that is enjoyable to learn.

One quibble. Unless I'm mistaken, Spencer has indicated he wants the comments space to be conducted as if we were in someone's living room, suitable for "prime time" watching, and I gather that ideally means, among other things, that if "curse words" are used, they should as a rule be elided to one degree or another with asterisks, not fully spelled out. Thus one would generally type bulls**t or some such, instead of fully spelling it out. No doubt there are exceptions to the rule, and perhaps you had sufficient reason. Regardless, I'd guess Spencer won't be nitpicking your contributions here.

Thanks, dumbledoresarmy.

Am interested in that book, from what you've said about it on several occasions. I saw it in bookstores some years ago, paged through it a bit, but had no suspicion it was more than a sort of idle intellectualoid literary romp. Clearly I was wrong...

@dumbledor:
Are you opposed to a 2 state solution?
In your opinion is everyone who favors a 2 state solution a jew hater?

To reiterate this 2 state question from another thread - see http://www.jihadwatch.org/2012/11/hamas-missile-launch-pad-next-to-mosque-playground-civilian-factories.html:
First @ traeh: Nobody ever said it would be simple to to implement a peace plan built upon a 2 state solution, but you are now asking relevant questions as opposed to Dumbledore's assertion that anyone who does support a 2 state solution is, if not an outright jew hater, either uninformed or in denial.

Given their religious fanaticism and inherent Jew/Israel hatred I believe Islamic political parties are not a workable partner for peace.
I am aware of the Islamic concepts of taquiya and hudna, but I have not abandoned hope that a solution can be achieved. I think international pressure has to be applied to the PNA/Abbas constituency to come to terms that there will be no significant right of return. If any, it could be limited to actual emigrees, not their descendants or perhaps a limited numer of returnees determined in another necessarily quasi-arbitrary way.

Boundaries would be an easier task. During the Oslo negotiations Israel offered to return 95% of the west bank. There would be tweaks to the 1967 borders based upon contempiorary demographics. Many of the settlements could be reclaimed by "eminent domain" and then awarded to Arab refugess as reparations. Certainly money would be no object in the way of amassing it for reparations. Low interest loan programs for constructon of necessary facilities in both Gaza and the west bank. Those two land masses might even become separate nation states. The inhabitants could vote on such a proposal. That might be a way around having to rely on Hamas /Gaza as the only peace partner. If Hamas was to be granted its own state in Gaza, it might agree to a cessation of hostilities. And it would be much for an international peacekeeping force easier to police infraction of any peace treaty by a tiny Gaza state than a larger Palestinian state entity.

Joint governance of Jerusalem, perhaps involving a temporary third party to resolve disputes about reconstruction, zoning and maintenace of holy sites.

I do not pretend to be expert, but these are the general issues that need to be hammered out. My hope is that as a result of the latest hostilites Hamas ultimately will be discredited and lose credibilty in the eyes of the world community. I think world/public opinion is beginning to sway towards Israel and to wise up re the proaganda of pitiful dying innocents on the Gaza side. It just doesn't wash.

@dumbledor:
As I previously asked, what do you make of the fact that an overwhelming majority of Israelis including the current Likud administration favor a 2 state solution? Are these people uninformed or in denial? Do you have no questions about the value/validity of your own opinions in light of these facts?

The current Likud administration and a majority of Israelis favor a 2 state solution.
http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3715759,00.html

Inasmuch as Dumbledore thinks people who favor a 2 state solution are, if not outright anti-semites, either uninformed about Islam or in denial I was curious why Dumbledor thinks that the majority of Israelis are either uninformed or in denial.

I think the Israeli public would be pretty well informed and realistic about the nature of Islam and their Palestinian neighbors having been in a constant state of conflict with them since the birth of the nation. I find it difficult to believe that the majority of Israelis are uninformed or in denial. That's precisely why I asked Dumbledor to explain how she arrives at her belief that this is so. Maybe she lives in Israel or has extensive experience so as to have some insight into the mindset of the average Israeli citizen. I'm still interested to hear her explanation.

While I would understand if you told me the majority of Americans were ignorant or in denial with regard to the nature of Islamic ideology I do not believe that is the case with the Israeli public.

Nevertheless,the fact remains that most Israelis do favor a 2 state solution. Why would this be so? Could it be they do not regard the Hamas mentality as representative of the majority of Palestinians

Above, 'darmanad' claims - preposterously - that what "Hugh Fitzgerald', former frequent poster at this website, once dubbed the 'Slow Jihadists' of Fatah/ the PLO, now the PA, are " a non-Islamist, secular entity."

Really? There is a whole lot of stuff, made available to the world by Palestinian Media Watch and by MEMRI, featuring officially-sponsored PA 'clerics', that reveals something else entirely.

If they ever presented as 'secular' (for the benefit of naive westerners) it was the merest facade, or veneer, over a bog-standard Arab Mohammedan core.

Jacques Ellul, in his book 'Un Chretien Pour Israel' (1983), devotes a whole chapter to 'The PLO', which gave birth to Fatah/ the PA.

He carefully analyses - clause by clause by clause - *their* charter, in its 1968 incarnation, which is a masterpiece of typically Muslim doublespeak, and concludes that it is "a perfect expression of the Jihad".

If darmanad does not believe me, I am perfectly prepared to cite extensive passages from Ellul's dissection of the original PLO charter, in Ellul's original French, together with rough translations.

And the PFLP - whose most famous member was George Habash, an Islamochristian janissary of Jihad - was just as much an instrument of Jihad as either the PLO/ Fatah/ PA or, today, Hamas and 'Islamic Jihad'.

All one has to do is read Oriana Fallaci's account - in The Force of Reason - of what George Habash said to her when she interviewed him. He described to her a grand Arab/ Muslim programme involving nothing less than *world conquest*, to which the destruction and Islamisation of Israel would be the merest aperitif.