Robert Spencer: The Bible and the Qur'an part 2

Here is my ABN show from Wednesday night. The first part, which aired two weeks ago and had the unhinged Muslim caller at the end, is here.

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salah | November 9, 2012 1:49 PM | Reply

We all know what the Bible says about the Holiness of Jesus:

He never sinned, and He never told a lie. 1 Peter 2:22
God made Him who had no sin to be sin for us. 2 Corinthians 5:21
And in Him there is no sin. 1 John 3:5
I know who you are – the Holy One of God. Mark 1:24
So the Holy One to be born will be called the Son of God. Luke 1:35
"Which of you convicts me of sin?" John 8:46

But what did the Quran and the Islamic texts say about Him?

http://crossmuslims.blogspot.com/2011/05/saint-and-sinner.html

theantislamist | November 9, 2012 4:38 PM | Reply

Too long-winded; what's the point of comparing bible/koran, when the koran is a bastardization of the bible and they are both derived from even earlier religious fables?
" My God is better than yours" is a ridiculous and unsustainable argument because neither God exists... yet both are violent inventions of primitive peoples.

Champ | November 9, 2012 6:19 PM | Reply

allah scolds muhammad for refusing women that he (allah) wants to give him? ...well excuse me while I laugh, muhammad ..you dog! Hilarious.

The quran was written by one man: muhammad; whereas the Bible has 40 different authors. Things that make you go, hmmm ...

traeh replied to comment from theantislamist | November 9, 2012 8:50 PM | Reply

To theantiislamist,

Even if neither God exists, the differences between those Gods matters very much in terms of the social forms the different religions produce over time.

One religion, true or not, leads to totalitarianism. Another kind of religion, true or not, leads to tremendous intellectual creativity, flowering of the arts, a tendency toward individualism, the scientific revolution, the Enlightenment, the separation of religion and state. All those beneficial social developments were implicit in Christian belief over the long run -- even if the Christian God does not exist. Christ's teaching

1) gave sacred value to every individual; categories and collectives of human beings became secondary; it has taken many centuries for Christians to begin to understand and to implement such teachings as this one from Galatians, 3:28: There is neither Jew nor Gentile, neither slave nor free, nor is there male and female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus.

2) Christ's teachings separated the realm of Caesar from that of God, thus depriving the State of any sacred value, and making the State over the long run subject to incessant criticism and reform; also leading over time toward the distinction between religion and state, such as we have in U.S.

3) #1 and #2 have meant a gradual increase of human freedom over time, and with that, all the blessings of human creativity and knowledge. Though the Roman Catholic Church during the course of history has not by any means always been a loyal and accurate representative of Christ's teachings, it is a myth and a false cliche that the Church has been primarily against science. A bit of study shows that throughout history the Church and its officials have more often than not been supportive patrons of knowledge and science. The same cannot be said of Islam.

So the distinctions between religions matter, even if those religions are nothing but a tissue of pure fantasy.

Karl Pov | November 10, 2012 12:01 AM | Reply

Robert, I was surprised by your ignorance of both the Bible and Christian theology. This idea of a God who creates human beings predestined to burn in Hell is common in Calvinism, and formed the background of James Hogg's interesting novel, Confessions of a Justified Sinner. In many Protestant faiths "works" are unimportant and salvation is the completely arbitrary gift of God of which no human being can be worthy, so none can in any way earn salvation. (This as opposed to God's admonition to the Hebrews that it is perfectly possible to keep all of the 613 commandments he's given them.)

This is why Luther wanted to rip the Epistle of James out of the New Testament, since it clearly states that "faith without works is dead," certainly a more decent view which is treasured by the Catholic and presumably other pre-Protestant, e.g. Coptic and Eastern Orthodox, Churches.

Also the idea that God can do evil is not completely foreign. Read the story of Moses and Pharaoh. The Charlton Heston version wisely left out the fact that after each of the plagues, Pharaoh decided that he'd had enough and he was going to let the Hebrews go, but God intervened by hardening his heart against the Hebrews, apparently because God was anxious to demonstrate his entire arsenal of plagues.

See also the two versions of the story of David's census. David wanted to take a census of Israel. He was warned that (for reasons never made completely clear) this was against God's will. So David abandoned the idea until, again, God (in the first version) intervened and caused him to go through with his sin. For this all Israel was punished, because the craven David preferred this to being punished personally. But in the second version of the story it is Satan who tempts David to carry out his sin. The first version represents a severe monotheism in which God is the cause of everything, both good and evil, while the second version offers the slightly dualistic view which Christianity has inherited.

As to splitting up families, have you forgotten Jesus's words about bringing not peace but a sword and setting father against son, mother against daughter, etc.?

Quit reading that damned Koran and study the Bible!

Note: Over a period of years I keyed (look Ma no scanner) the entire text of the Bible in Esperanto, the international language, into my computer, which gave me a disturbing knowledge of its contents, including the truly atrocious last three chapters of Judges. But I digress. Anyhow, chapter-and-verse references upon request, I'm just going from memory.

https://me.yahoo.com/a/Lhxlh0wKoIfvmswbEFuxWKV8OzBRqvH5L9SyFok-#91339 replied to comment from theantislamist | November 10, 2012 7:04 AM | Reply

Keep in mind ABN is supported by donations, your critique (comments) costs you nothing. But feel free to promote your god/no god 'beliefs' and offend allies while others pick up the tab.

https://me.yahoo.com/a/oWQJtIxthPDZRJOCBNo9jlkIPy5t#949dd replied to comment from Karl Pov | November 10, 2012 7:12 AM | Reply

God doesn't want anyone to perish so Calvinism is very wrong in this issue. I suggest you to learn about Prevenient grace and the works of Arminius and Welsey.
God predestined everyone to be saved and it's important to notice that predestination is not the same as predetermination.
Watch this four episode teaching of Ephesians here:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=paxFkiZUGwM

The Epistle of James tells about works that come AFTER one has become a disciple of Christ. It has nothing to do with ones earning a way to heaven.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m_4z7kqZH2U

Regarding Pharaoh, Romans 9:22(NASB)says:
"What if God, although willing to demonstrate His wrath and to make His power known, endured with much patience vessels of wrath prepared for destruction?" Concordant Literal Version says: "adapted for destruction".
That doesn't mean God didn't want them to repent and turn to Him. But when they didn't do that He hardened their hearts and used them to demonstrate His power. It's the same thing as in Revelation for the ones who didn't respond to God when they had the chance("No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws them, and I will raise them up at the last day." John 6:44.), so instead of turning to God, they curse Him.

"As to splitting up families, have you forgotten Jesus's words about bringing not peace but a sword and setting father against son, mother against daughter, etc.?"

Here Jesus is talking about the persecutions and adversities that everyone who wants to follow Him must go through in this life.
Read Matt 10:34-39.
The "sword" is against the ones who follow Christ, not the other way around! So if someone becomes a christian, it should not be surprise if he/she is disowned by the family, because this world hates Christ's followers(John 17:14).

I suggest you to read the Bible in it's original hebrew and greek languages using interlinear Bibles, which can be found on the internet.
NASB is also an accurate translation.

Sorry for my poor english.

Stuart Parsons | November 10, 2012 2:04 PM | Reply

It seems to be a case of the evil blind versus the good blind. Neither, the Muslims or the Jews and Christians can offer even the slightest VERIFIABLE evidence for actual existence their versions of an omniscient deity. Both sides offer up billions of prayers annually to their mythical deities and explain in detail, without any VERIFIABLE proof, the advantages and disadvantages of Heaven and Hell.

Me ? Ah well yes, like, I prefer to obtain all my information from the fairies who live at the bottom of my garden. But please don't ask me for verifiable evidence.

gerard | November 10, 2012 3:14 PM | Reply

Robert, thanks for this part 2. I believe it is essential to know something of the history and theology of Islam if we are to answer it today. We can't all be experts on Islam so I immensely appreciate this course of videos that you are doing to give us at least a 101 on Islam.
Many thanks.
Gerard.

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“My comrade-in-arms, my pal, my buddy.”
— Oriana Fallaci

“Robert Spencer incarnates intellectual courage when, all over the world, governments, intellectuals, churches, universities and media crawl under a hegemonic Universal Caliphate’s New Order. His achievement in the battle for the survival of free speech and dignity of man will remain as a fundamental monument to the love of, and the self-sacrifice for, liberty.”
— Bat Ye’or

“Robert Spencer is indefatigable. He is keeping up the good fight long after many have already given up. I do not know what we would do without him. I appreciate all the intelligence and courage it takes to keep going despite the appeasement of the West.”
— Ibn Warraq

“America's most informed, fearless, and compelling voice on modern jihadism.”
— Andrew C. McCarthy, Senior Fellow at National Review Institute

“Robert Spencer is the leading voice of scholarship and reason in a world gone mad. If the West is to be saved, we will owe Robert Spencer an incalculable debt.”
— Pamela Geller, Atlas Shrugs

"The consummate Islam critic and expert." — Bruce Bawer

“Over the years, we have become friends, and I have received his assistance on several pieces of legislation I proposed.”
— Former Congressman Tom Tancredo

“Few people are capable of applying scholarship, analytical reasoning, and objectivity to their topic -- while simultaneously being readable and witty -- as can Robert Spencer.”
— Raymond Ibrahim

“A national treasure...The acclaimed scholar of Islam.”
— Frank Gaffney, Center for Security Policy

“I am indeed honored to call him my friend.”
— Brad Thor, novelist

“A top American analyst of Islam....A serious scholar...I learn from him.”
— Daniel Pipes

“A brilliant scholar and writer.”
— Douglas Murray

"One of my best teachers."
— Ashraf Ramelah, Voice of the Copts

“Thank God there’s at least one man with balls left in the West.”
— Kathy Shaidle, Five Feet of Fury

“I read people like [Mark Steyn] and Bob Spencer and the rest of them, and I say, ‘Boortz, you’re pretending you’re an author. These people really are. They really write some entertaining, some standup stuff.’”
— Neal Boortz

“Robert Spencer is the Stephen King of Jihad.”
— Chris Gaubatz, Muslim Mafia

“Armed with facts and fearlessness, Spencer stands up for Western civilization.”
— Michelle Malkin

“Widely read in conservative foreign policy circles.”
— New York Times

“Widely read in many quarters in Washington.”
— Washington Post

“A canny operative who likely has the inside track on the State Department’s Middle East affairs desk should the tea party win the White House.”
— New York Magazine

“A hero of the American right.”
— Karen Armstrong

"The leading anti-Islamic intellectual in the United States....The go-to Islam expert for the right wing."
— Salon Magazine

“Robert Spencer is an Edward Said turned upside down.”
— Stephen Suleyman Schwartz

“One of the nation's most notorious Islamophobes.”
— Hamas-linked CAIR

"Geller and Spencer are probably the most important propagandizing Islamophobes in the world. These people's voices speak very loudly — not just here in the United States but overseas."
— Heidi Beirach, Southern Poverty Law Center

“Satanic ignoramus.”
— Khaleel Mohammed

“The Likud anti-Christ.”
— Dar al-Hayat newspaper (Saudi Arabia)

“Zionist Crusader, missionary of hate, counter-Islam consultant.”
— Al-Qaeda’s Adam Gadahn, “Azzam the American”