Contrast this:
Egyptian jihad leader calls for destruction of Sphinx, Pyramids
with this:
Israel museums hide art to protect it from rockets
...and support the civilized man.
The civilized man vs. the savage
"Savage":
Middle English: from Old French 'sauvage' -'wild' - from Latin 'silvaticus' - 'of the woods' - from 'silva' - 'a wood'.
________________________________
http://oxforddictionaries.com/definition/american_english/savage?region=us&q=savage
The mindset that the Jews of Israel - and every non-Muslim on the planet - are up against.
As revealed in the notes taken by journalist Martha Gellhorn, when she visited Israel just after the Six Day War.
From the biography of Gellhorn 'Martha Gellhorn: A Life', by Caroline Moorhead (who, by the way, is blindly pro-'Palestinian' and simply cannot understand why Gellhorn wasn't, but who, to do her credit, still quotes some very telling items from Gellhorn's working notebooks').
p. 425 –
"In 1967…Martha returned to Israel…She arrived as the Six Day War against Egypt, Jordan and Syria was ending.
"The Arab forces were broken and the Israelis were now in possession of the Golan Heights, the western bank of the Jordan River, the town of Kuneitra and a strip of Syria, having crossed the Sinai and reached the Suez canal.
" Martha stayed for just over a month and wrote articles for the Guardian, the Nation, Commonweal and American Vogue.
(Note – it would be a great project for someone to track down all of Gellhorn’s published articles about Israel, the Jews, and the Arabs; and gather them together and republish them in a book – Gellhorn on the Arabs and the Jews – together with a plain, scholarly transcript/ edition, in full, of all the original notes on which the articles were based, and letters she wrote from Israel and the Levant – especially her correspondence with Moshe Dayan and Moshe Pearlman.).
p. 426 –
“Martha had good friends in the Israeli army, including Moshe Dayan, newly appointed Minister of Defence, who was a great admirer of James Gavin. Soon, she was given a car, driver and conducting officer to take her into the Sinai to see the remains of war.
‘They passed burned out tanks, guns, spent shells, lorries with blindfolded prisoners.
“Fiercest smell on earth: human dead”, Martha wrote in her notebook, with her usual blend of work and personal observations.
“Sorrow and disgust…There is no swank, no crowing. No Israelis are drunk, no looting, no raping of women…I know Israelis will not torture”…
She went on,
“Atrocities: 7 Israeli pilots hung, 1 thrown to crowd, killed with spades, 2 pilots decapitated in Smyrna, heads shown on TV, girl teletypist, breasts cut off, etc. Made me sick.”
The next day, she returned to the atrocities: ‘6 Arabs caught last night with hand grenades at the Wailing Wall. Got shot at once. Jews are too lenient – will do them no good…Least violent people anywhere”.
Just to repeat:
"7 Israeli pilots hung, 1 thrown to crowd, killed with spades,
"2 pilots decapitated in Smyrna, heads shown on TV,
"**girl teletypist, breasts cut off,** {my emphasis - dda} etc."
END QUOTE
Arab Muslims *cut off the breasts* of a Jewish girl they captured during the Six Day War.
Just as Turkish Muslims cut off the breasts of Armenian Christian women during the genocide of the Armenians, and just as 'Arab' Muslims from the Sudan would cut off the breasts of black South Sudanese animist and Christian women (after gang-raping them).
*That* is what we are dealing with, here.
And *that* is why Israel has nuclear weapons.
Because they are fighting with people who think nothing of decapitating bound prisoners, and cutting off the breasts of women, and throwing a POW to a howling mob to be killed *with spades*...but who, more fundamentally antihuman or inhuman than all that, in dealing with non-Muslims, absolutely reject the principle of reciprocity and the principle of Covenant, or Agreement.
Muslims feel entitled to make fake 'agreements' with us for temporary advantage and then break those agreements at will. They feel fully entitled to hurt and harm and humiliate all of us non-Muslims qua non-Muslims - they see us as *deserving* to be punished and killed, but are mortally affronted when their intended victims *hit back*. How *dare* we dirty untermenschen, we najis kafir - the vilest of beings - fight back! How *dare* we reject Islam! How *dare* we prefer our own laws, to sharia! How *dare* we refuse to fall at their feet and grovel and cringe!
http://sultanknish.blogspot.com/2011/11/dangers-of-legitimizing-islamic.html
Sunday, November 13, 2011
The Dangers of Legitimizing Muslim Grievances
"Grievance is the stories that Muslims tell themselves to justify their violence.
To explain why they kill children and why they murder the innocent.
The list of grievances is an endless as the violence.
Every act of violence carries its own narrative.
The endless Muslim conflicts throughout the world all carry their burden of history.
But it isn't a history that can be resolved with a tolerance session.
**Muslim grievances are the frustration of conquerors, the broken teeth of predators who weren't allowed to feed on the world until their stomachs burst.** {my emphasis - dda}.
All the lands they couldn't conquer, the peoples who rebelled against their rule, the inferior civilizations that pushed them back and drove them off.
The swine who build skyscrapers and enjoy the fine things in life."
Again, this kind of discourse isn't getting either side anywhere. The reality is that most Israeli Jews are secular nationalists, and polls have repeatedly shown broad support in Israel for a secular Palestinian state, and general rejection of the settlements and Greater Israel espoused by Shas and the rest of the hard right. Pamela Geller's bombastic rhetoric is more in tune with what Evangelical End Timers like Hal Lindsay spew, than with popular consensus in Israel.
The fact remains that maintaining the status quo of a stateless Palestinian (yes, that's what they're called) population is not conducive to Israel's security. As Israel now realizes, Gaza is a convenient launch pad for Iranian-supplied rockets, protected by Palestinian human shields. The current response of attacking these batteries is completely justified, as well as the use of the very effective Iron Dome missile shield. But expanding this into a broader ground war would yield a negative security outcome for Israel.
The governments of the United States and Europe are swimming in red ink, and their economies are teetering on the verge of a full-blown recession. The West can NOT afford the effects of an oil price shock, brought about by an OPEC embargo. The OPEC countries know this, and WILL hold this cudgel over the West. Nor would any American politician commit political suicide by getting the country into another Middle East War, right after the hangover of George W. Bush's misadventure in Iraq, which cost a trillion dollars and left four thousand American troops dead. The United States won't offer Israel anything more than moral support.
The geopolitical situation is very different from 1973. The dominant Palestinian groups are now Islamist, rather than the secular PLO. Egypt now has a much improved military and an Islamist government, Iran is an Islamist theocracy, and former Israeli ally Turkey is now run by a soft Islamic regime that's openly pro-Palestinian. Turkey is especially significant, since this NATO country could potentially choke off Israel's supply lines. While people fantasize about undeveloped offshore oil and gas reserves, and desert greenhouses, the reality is that Israel has to import almost all of its fuel, and most of its food. Surrounded as it by openly pro-Palestinian countries, this has serious implications for Israel, in a major conflict. And post-Soviet Central Asia and countries like Malaysia and Indonesia are ready and willing to provide aid and wannabe jihadi cannon fodder, for a regional conflict.
The West has essentially no strategic, or ethnic interest in Israel. Remember that Western countries are majority CHRISTIAN societies. Most of the Christian population of Israel and Palestine has departed. Notwithstanding the attempts of Evangelicals and others to promote the idea of 'Judeo-Christian society,' there is no such thing. Western countries have little concern about a Jewish vs Muslim conflict, in a virtually resource-free region of the Middle East. There are over twice as many 'undocumented' Mexicans in the U.S. than Jews, and the instability of Mexico is a far more pressing concern amongst U.S. policymakers than Israel. The imminent evacuation of American citizens from Israel (U.S. Naval vessels already being mobilized) is a sign that America is throwing in the towel. And, aside from the odd rabid Muslim, or Islamophile, the reaction to Ms Geller's 'Savage' ads was largely "meh!"
http:// you are a dope. National survival trumps economics. Israel does not need any help to utterly destroy her enemies. They just need help if this is to happen without the use of nukular weapons. Still think we won't be involved? Possibly you were a bam bam voter.
nabi ZK (pbum)
Go away. You're bothering us. No one of sense cares what you think.
YGM 76700
Muslim Jewhater in a mask? If so: Shiite or Sunni? Possibly Shiite.
Non-Muslim Jew-hater?
Either way, he / it strikes me as attempting to play the same tricks as a 'Tokyo Rose' or Lord Haw Haw.
Disinformation spreader, sand-thrower, SPAMMER (since he keeps endlessly and tediously croaking the same prepackaged talking points in *every* thread that touches on the Battle of Gaza; I wonder if there is a little handbook that contains these items, somewhere? ), and BS artist, attempting to demoralise, to 'split the camp', to distract, and to confuse readers who may be new to this site and this subject.
replied to comment from zonie kafir
| November 19, 2012 7:45 PM
| Reply
Well said, nabi ZK (have I ever told you just how *much* I enjoy your postings, as also those of duh swami? the pair of you have cornered a special kind of light ironic tone that, I think, offers no purchase upon which even the cunninghest Mohammedan boggart or dementor could ever get a grip).
And seconding Wellington:
YGM is extraordinarily wearisome.
Gravenimage and I and and a few others comment upon some of his more egregious squawking-points only because, at this time, persons new to this site and this subject are probably lobbing in here at a greater rate, and we do not wish to run the risk of their being momentarily 'thrown' by his Bullshit.
And the Kosovar Albanians had actually destroyed 150 magnificent ancient Serb Christian churches and monasteries in Kosovo that were not only holy places of Serb Christianity but treasures of world culture, 100 of them on the UN UNESCO World Heritage Site List! The Muslims are savages EVERYWHERE, be it in the Balkans, or in Eretz Israel where they destroyed the Hurva synagogue and Joseph's Tomb, or in Bamyan, Afghanistan where they destroyed the ancient Buddha statues, or Indonesia where they burned hundreds of churches and massacred hundreds of thousands of Christians, or in Egypt.
I take delight in quoting heroine Pamela's words:
In any war between the civilized man and the savage, support the civilized man.
Support Israel!
Defeat jihad!
Folks, disseminate these words!
Let the truth ring around the world!
Ruslan Tokhchukov, EnragedSince1999.
"Non-Muslim Jew-hater?"
Secular Roman Catholic, whose maternal grandfather was of Polish Ashenazi extraction, and interned in a Nazi camp. And I don't 'hate' Jews (or Muslims), or even Zionism and the state of Israel. Israel is, on the balance, a fairly pluralistic and democratic society, with a free and open press and tolerance of dissent. Israel's existence is a reality, even though Islamist nutbars can't abide by this. I do, however, have a problem with religious fruitcakes of any persuasion, be they Haredi, Salafi, Shi'a, or Evangelical.
"National survival trumps economics. Israel does not need any help to utterly destroy her enemies."
Again, Israel is highly dependent on imports, for everything from food and fuel, to spare parts for its air fleet. The country is surrounded by hostile states, including formerly friendly Turkey, and a nearby very nasty and well-armed Iran. To reiterate: this is not the Yom Kippur War era. Material realities, like available troop strength and fuel supplies, trump religious delusions of utter invincibility. And the West's pretty dire economic position trumps interest in nationally insignificant foreign conflicts. Note that most American Jews voted for Obama--economic considerations trumped America's Israel policy, for them. As hawkish as Bibi and co. are, they aren't stupid, and they won't drag their country into a conflict with Egypt, Iran, and Turkey.
No Israeli government will ever use the nuclear option. This would be political, diplomatic, and physical suicide. Nor will Israel strike Iran's nuclear facilities, as the regional military and Security Council blowback from this would be severe. Whether some of the radical hawks here like it, or not, there will eventually be a diplomatic and political settlement to the Israeli-Palestinian conflict. This will involve a two-state solution, and borders that respect demographic realities. And a big part of this is that Israel's friends are not interested in fighting in another Middle East war, or seeing sharp increases in oil prices. The reality is that most Americans would react more strongly to a spike in gas prices than Israeli military defeat.
"And the Kosovar Albanians had actually destroyed 150 magnificent ancient Serb Christian churches..."
I won't argue with that. There is no justification for tit-for-tat violence. But remember that there also are large numbers of Catholic Albanian Kosovars, who fought with Muslims against Serb paramilitaries. And I hope you aren't one of those Michael Parenti-type revisionists who deny that Serbian forces committed atrocities and attempted ethnic cleansing in Kosovo, or pretend that the Srebrenica massacre was a U.S. hoax.
"Go away. You're bothering us."
These sorts of dismissals are common with people who refuse to face bothersome facts, or resort to epithets like 'Jew-hater.' And that includes the Islamist apologists people here criticize, for calling their opponents 'Islamophobes.'
A fair article from the Guardian:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2012/nov/19/hamas-leaves-israel-no-choice
troll://:
Just a few articles down, you told David Dowse that you are a Muslim. I bet, this was the only instance you told the truth. Further, you said you were Catholic but converted to Islam "because Catholic church raped children". Just a few hours later, however, you reverted to being "Catholic", and speaking for "the Holy Sea" and "Western Christianity" and saying they have no ethnic or strategic reason to support Israel, that support for Israel in the West is "nil". So, which one is it? And now, you are also ... what? A "secular Catholic" and ... a grandson of a Jewish Holocaust survivor? Not only are you a liar, but you are in a lying frenzy. You have gotten tangled-up in your own lies by incessantly contradicting yourself. You have been trying to sit on so many different chairs, you've ended up with your ass on the pavement. Not only are you a compulsive liar, but you are obviously an unhinged person.
Ruslan Tokhchukov, EnragedSince1999.
I, nabi ZK (pbum) reiterate, you are a dope. Yeah, and what miriam said.
nabi ZK (pbum)
A list of your signature tune, again:
'.. a secular Palestinian state' How can an Islamic theocracy be secular?
'Greater Israel' What? Expand to the size of a telephone cabin, maybe. Israel's land surface is only one-tenth of one per cent of the Middle East!
'...stateless Palestinian (yes, that's what they're called) population..' There has never been a Palestine, therefore no Palestinians. Produce your historical evidence.
'The West can NOT afford the effects of an oil price shock, brought about by an OPEC embargo.'
An OPEC embargo would sink the economies of these states. They live or die by western oil dollars! Your grasp of simple economics is zero.
'The West has essentially no strategic, or ethnic interest in Israel..' You're wrong! And if you are right, why has the West always supported Israel when push comes to shove?
You're a clown!
More of your rubbish: 'I do, however, have a problem with religious fruitcakes of any persuasion, be they Haredi, Salafi, Shi'a, or Evangelical.'
Just one problem. The fruitcakes who follow Islam have everlasting divine sanction given by Al Qur'an to murder the Jews and anyone else who isn't a Muslim and rejects Islam.
Islamic fruitcakes are in the million and lauching rockets into Israel right now. Tell us where in the world there are Evangelicals launching rockets into any non-Christian country.
The rivers of blood shed in the Middle East for centuries have come gushing from the pages of Al Qur'an.
You're a clown!
"Just a few articles down, you told David Dowse that you are a Muslim."
Huh?! You really are delusional.
"[S]aying they have no ethnic or strategic reason to support Israel..."
To reiterate: Israel is a JEWISH state. Other than the existing Muslim, Christian, and Druze populations, who have Israeli citizenship, only a Jew (born as such, or converted through the Orthodox Ashkenazi, or Sephardi rabbinates) can become an Israeli citizen. From the Triune God, to a host of other theological differences, there is a greater gulf between Judaism and Christianity than Judaism and Islam. Most of the Christian population of Israel left long ago. And, although the mistreatment of Christians is nowhere nearly as acute as it is under Muslim rule, the Israelis have hardly been kind to the Christian minority:
http://972mag.com/israels-not-so-stellar-record-on-treatment-of-christians/43325/
http://mondoweiss.net/2012/03/the-myth-of-israels-favorable-treatment-of-palestinian-christians.html
"An OPEC embargo would sink the economies of these states."
They've done it before (1973), and they'll do it again. Only this time the Western economies are very fragile, and huge oil price shocks would trigger a deep recession. The U.S. and EU will do anything to avoid this, and this means throwing Israel under the bus if need be. The 'support' the West has given Israel has largely been moral, as well as monetary aid, and NOT direct military assistance.
"There has never been a Palestine, therefore no Palestinians."
Only the hard right in Israel and the Evangelical lobby traffics in that. Everyone else, including most Israelis, accept the reality of a Palestinian ethnicity. Remember that Judaism is a RELIGION--open and welcoming to converts--and, according to your logic, there never has been such an ethnicity as 'Iasraeli' until 1948, since that country didn't exist then.
"'Greater Israel' What?"
E.g. encompassing the Biblical borders of Israel, including what are now majority-Palestinian areas.
"'.. a secular Palestinian state' How can an Islamic theocracy be secular?"
Are you that ideologically blinded that you can't admit there are such things as Palestinian Christians (still 4% of the Palestinian population)? Or that majority-Christian America, Canada, Britain, etc. are secular states? Remember that the PLO/Fatah is a secular-nationalist movement, as was its Ba'athist parent.
There is a lot to criticize about Islam, Islamist states, and Islamic immigration to the West and its effects. But let's not get so ideologically blinded that any criticism of the Israeli government's policies, or the ideology and theology of ultra-orthodox Jews is verboten. Not to mention the shrill denials of atrocities committed against Muslims (e.g., by Serbian forces in the Balkans). And 'Jew-hater'/'antisemite' is just the tired counter-retort of 'Islamophobe.'
Blah, blah, blah . . . watch out. Soon Spencer may ban you for spamming. Too bad there's never a single original thought in your head.
I invite you to comment on any other thread besides those dealing with the Israeli/muslim conflicts. Funny how you seem to have ZERO wisdom to share that does not include Doomsday scenarios for Israel - which no one here is buying in the slightest, BTW.
Frankly, you're boring us. We've dealt with trolls like you before, and once they've shot their particular load, they disappear, never to be heard from again. Are you almost finished? Please at least try to change up the tune, and post on other topics, or we may be forced to post a DISCLAIMER about you each time you reappear.
A photo of a small Shia Muslim child about to be given a cut on the head. Watch the hands of the cutter.
http://blogs.jp.dk/firoozeh/2011/12/06/paragraf-266b/
Boring? Troll? Jew hater? Muslim?
I don't know YGM76700, but he's the brightest most informative commenter I've read on JWatch. Those who hurl epithets at him are like monkeys in a zoo hurling their feces with no rhyme or reason. These boors avoid serious debate like the plague. Most apparently think anyone who favors a 2 state solution is a jew hater, leftard, commie, traitor. It's laughable.
Keep up the good work YGM76700. Your posts are interesting and thought provoking. Ignor the monkeys who high five each other in the course of hurling feces.
replied to comment from darmanad
| November 20, 2012 3:45 AM
| Reply
I don't know YGM76700, but he's the brightest…
What a deadly giveaway!
I have never seen an anonymous blogger starting his commendation of other anonymous blogger with emphasizing to an anonymous audience that he doesn’t know him. The only exception being cases where their identity was eventually established.
If there was ever a case of someone protesting too much this must be it. But the guy is simply too dumb to realize he has just blown his cover.
Yeah, the creep and the maggot are one and the same. Very comical to watch it highfiving himself.
replied to comment from thomas_h
| November 20, 2012 4:39 AM
| Reply
Thomas
to hear darmanad saying that people such as Gravenimage, Wellington and David Dowse - whom I know to be deeply civilised, intelligent, well-read, literate human beings, and all of whom (among others) have intelligently challenged the sly disinformation-spreader YGM 76700 - are
"like monkeys in a zoo hurling their feces with no rhyme or reason. These boors avoid serious debate like the plague"
is absolutely appalling.
Because it is just *wrong* as a description of those posters: of who they are and how they write.
And...'avoid serious debate like the plague'.
Wellington?
Gravenimage?
Bizarre. Just bizarre.
Sorry dda. It must be talking about me, nabi ZK (pbum). The nabific one never debates with trolls other than to point out that I, nabi ZK (pbum), am their true nabi, and that they are stupid, etc.
To wit. Notice it's focus on 4th and 5th order terms, such as, who gives a fart if "paleostinian" is real of some kind of political repackaging bs from the aftermath of 67. Or Jews accept converts... When the first order term du jour is, "Stop firing rockets so we can stop bombing ur ass into the stone age".
What a dipstick.
Yours truly
nabi ZK (pbum)
replied to comment from dumbledoresarmy
| November 20, 2012 5:40 AM
| Reply
DDA
"Bizarre" is probably the best word describing someone producing a line like:
"Monkey...hurling feces with no rhyme or reason" after, and despite of, having the aptness of his opinions and the truthfulness of his "facts" totally demolished by persons whose intelligence, integrity and familiarity with the subject is vastly superior to his own.
And really, does he think that the pathetic "rhyme" and "reason" with which he hurls his feces will make them land further than on his own face? Well, considering his abysmal stupidity combined with evident megalomania he must believe so.
Entertaining. I am now using google to sign in instead of yahoo and it reveals my darmanad identity. I am not YGM76700 - sorry to diappoint. But you can continue to crow about your Sherlock Holmsian deductions if it helps you get off in a circle "party."
I can only judge people by how and what they write. Graven, David douse, Buraq, Dumbledor, Thomas h, and to a somewhat lesser extent Wellington do not strike me as very smart or, more importantly, ethical.
Graven, David douse, Buraq, Dumbledor, Thomas h, and to a somewhat lesser extent Wellington do not strike me as very smart...
Ooh! That one had to leave a mark.
Surely an ultra humiliating fate awaits you in this world. And the next world? Don't even ask about it. Seriously. It's that bad.
Thus spake nabi ZK (pbum)
:)
replied to comment from zonie kafir
| November 20, 2012 7:33 AM
| Reply
"Surely an ultra humiliating fate awaits you in this world. And the next world? Don't even ask about it. Seriously. It's that bad."
LOL, zonie kafir! Very, very funny. Looking forward for more.
Take care, Nabi
replied to comment from darmanad
| November 20, 2012 7:49 AM
| Reply
"I am now using google to sign in instead of yahoo and it reveals my darmanad identity."
"reveals" how, bozo?
In what way are you now less anonymous than signing in with yahoo, yahoo?
Where in "darmanad" can one find your name, address, email, or telephone number?
You obviously believe that only those signing in with "anonymous" are truly anonymous. Gosh, you're dumb!
enraged said, in response to you:
________________________________
"Just a few articles down, you told David Dowse that you are a Muslim."
________________________________
you said:
"Huh?! You really are delusional."
_________________________________
You do realize that it is YOU that is delusional, don't you? You and I both know that you admitted to being a Muslim. Nobody is delusional here, except you. Check it for yourself in the thread about your boy, "singing Koran verses".
___________________________
And as Wellington and CGW said, "Go away - you're tedious."
replied to comment from darmanad
| November 20, 2012 8:32 AM
| Reply
"David douse."
____________
Look, buddy. I post here under my real name. I have for years.
Get the spelling right, at least, and capitalize surnames, ok?
_______________________
It's "Dowse".
_______________________
Happy Trails, Dummy.
replied to comment from thomas_h
| November 20, 2012 10:37 AM
| Reply
"Bizarre" is probably the best word describing someone producing a line like: "Monkey...hurling feces with no rhyme or reason"
It occurred to me that it would be delightful to see a monkey hurling feces with rhyme and reason.
Anyway, this YGM 76700 is, ostensibly, fairly well adept at kitman -- weaving together plausible sounding inferences and conclusions seamlessly massaged into a tissue of lies and anti-Western hatred while managing (at least to those who aren't vigilant and literate in the issue) to keep the latter two subliminal.
In addition to kitman, YGM 76700 is also deploying the tactic of obfuscation through complex quantity -- which is a two-fer: it not only helps to obscure the lies and the anti-Western animus; it also serves to wear down the opponents through the tedium of having to refute him -- for a thorough refutation of his long posts would require the labor of weeding through and detaching the lies from the kitman half-truths, then those two from the straw men and red herrings, a rather tiring task to the extent that he has woven a rather tight weave of a complex of warp-and-woof. It is tempting to take his Kitman Tapestry and just toss it in the trash, or rip it in pieces; and it's probably not a bad idea. But YGM 76700 is clever enough, it seems, to know that intelligent people will look at those responses and see they aren't actually refutations.
While many responses to YGM 76700 that go into greater depth are helpful, they still don't deliver the refutation that is a result of painstaking unraveling of his carefully woven straitjackets. It would be far easier to deliver handy and effectively thorough refutations of YGM 76700 if we, as deputized Counter-Jihadists, had a digital Anti-Islam Manual.
But none of our luminaries in the Counter Jihad seem to think that's a high priority (or even of any value at all).
https://me.yahoo.com/a/jn3RbDthtvWVAf4SjINGi9CXvxDuiL5_YGM-#76700 wrote:
Again, this kind of discourse isn't getting either side anywhere. The reality is that most Israeli Jews are secular nationalists, and polls have repeatedly shown broad support in Israel for a secular Palestinian state...
..............................
I'm sure the civilized and defense-weary Israelis would *love* to see a peaceful, secular Palestinian state as their neighbor. Unfortunately, what they are apt to get is another Gaza—a homicidal Shari'ah state that serves as a launching pad for violent Jihad against Israel.
More:
The fact remains that maintaining the status quo of a stateless Palestinian (yes, that's what they're called) population is not conducive to Israel's security. As Israel now realizes, Gaza is a convenient launch pad for Iranian-supplied rockets, protected by Palestinian human shields...
..............................
And how would that change were this genocidal regime recognized as a "state"? Hamas has the out-and-out destruction of Israel in their charter—*not* the idea of a two-state solution.
More:
The governments of the United States and Europe are swimming in red ink, and their economies are teetering on the verge of a full-blown recession. The West can NOT afford the effects of an oil price shock, brought about by an OPEC embargo. The OPEC countries know this, and WILL hold this cudgel over the West. Nor would any American politician commit political suicide by getting the country into another Middle East War, right after the hangover of George W. Bush's misadventure in Iraq, which cost a trillion dollars and left four thousand American troops dead. The United States won't offer Israel anything more than moral support.
..............................
Tokyo Rose and Lord Haw Haw redux...
More:
The geopolitical situation is very different from 1973. The dominant Palestinian groups are now Islamist, rather than the secular PLO. Egypt now has a much improved military and an Islamist government, Iran is an Islamist theocracy, and former Israeli ally Turkey is now run by a soft Islamic regime that's openly pro-Palestinian. Turkey is especially significant, since this NATO country could potentially choke off Israel's supply lines. While people fantasize about undeveloped offshore oil and gas reserves, and desert greenhouses, the reality is that Israel has to import almost all of its fuel, and most of its food. Surrounded as it by openly pro-Palestinian countries, this has serious implications for Israel, in a major conflict. And post-Soviet Central Asia and countries like Malaysia and Indonesia are ready and willing to provide aid and wannabe jihadi cannon fodder, for a regional conflict.
..............................
All of which is true, in one of your rare moments of candor. Of course, your honesty in this instance is only to convince Israel—and her supporters—that her case is hopeless, and that she should roll over and we should abandon her. Repulsive...
More:
The West has essentially no strategic, or ethnic interest in Israel...
..............................
The idea—that you have flogged so often here—that the free West has no interest in supporting a fellow democracy against the same enemies who want to see us destroyed—is meretricious bullsh*t.
More:
"Non-Muslim Jew-hater?"
Secular Roman Catholic, whose maternal grandfather was of Polish Ashenazi extraction, and interned in a Nazi camp...
..............................
What is a "secular Roman Catholic"? Unlike Islam, anyone can leave Catholicism without fear of death. So if you used to hold Catholic beliefs and no longer do, then you are an ex-Catholic.
More:
And I don't 'hate' Jews (or Muslims), or even Zionism and the state of Israel. Israel is, on the balance, a fairly pluralistic and democratic society, with a free and open press and tolerance of dissent...
..............................
Is that so? And yet, your entire posting history has consisted of urging us to abandon Israel to the Muslim savages who would destroy her. You did not post here before Hamas' recent round of attacks on Israel, and so far as I have seen haven't seen fit to comment on a single story not involving Israel. And then, no matter the degree of Jihad savagery in evidence, your only purpose here has been not just criticizing Israel, but urging her abandonment by the rest of the world.
More:
Whether some of the radical hawks here like it, or not, there will eventually be a diplomatic and political settlement to the Israeli-Palestinian conflict. This will involve a two-state solution, and borders that respect demographic realities.
..............................
Islam has *no* long-term interest in this. Should there be a "two-state solution" at all, it would only serve as a temporary measure for Muslims while they launch their final assault on Israel.
There *are* well meaning people who strongly advocate the "two-state solution"—indeed, as a teenager and young adult, before I understood much about Islam, I counted myself among them.
But from everything you have posted here, you have made it abundantly clear that you are not to be included in the clueless but well-intentioned group.
More:
The reality is that most Americans would react more strongly to a spike in gas prices than Israeli military defeat.
..............................
"Israeli military defeat"—now *that's* a bland phrasing for a country *fighting for her life*. If Israel were to suffer a "military defeat", it would mean the destruction of the state of Israel and the slaughter of her people.
replied to comment from David Dowse
| November 20, 2012 11:55 AM
| Reply
Dear David, re your exchange with https://me.yahoo.com/a/sityrW9moucyClNorQW2m2vqA8J2_w--#1576e on the "New York: Convicted jihad mass murder plotter starts singing Qur'an verses in court" thread: this is not the same poster as https://me.yahoo.com/a/jn3RbDthtvWVAf4SjINGi9CXvxDuiL5_YGM-#76700, above.
Both use the "alphabet soup" Yahoo sign-in, with no indication of their actual username, if any.
For the antisemite spamming the thread here, I always look for "jn3..." to know that it is him.
But this was a very reasonable assumption on your part—I believe that the likelihood of "jn3..." being Muslim is very high—certainly, he is a Jihad apologist, just like the other Yahoo poster.
As always, I look forward to reading your erudite posts, David. Hope you are doing well in sunny Mexico.
replied to comment from darmanad
| November 20, 2012 12:09 PM
| Reply
darmanad, while I believe you have a tendency to sometimes underestimate the existential danger of the Jihad threat, I have always considered you to be a solid poster here.
I would urge you to read more of https://me.yahoo.com/a/jn3RbDthtvWVAf4SjINGi9CXvxDuiL5_YGM-#76700's comments here, and to read them more closely.
He may appear to be occasionally superficially reasonable in his comments, but if you read through you will see that what he is really urging us to do is completely abandon Israel to violent Jihad.
I believe LemonLime's analysis of what he is attempting to do here is spot on.
replied to comment from gravenimage
| November 20, 2012 2:04 PM
| Reply
Graven: Dear David, re your exchange with https://me.yahoo.com/a/sityrW9moucyClNorQW2m2vqA8J2_w--#1576e on the "New York: Convicted jihad mass murder plotter starts singing Qur'an verses in court" thread: this is not the same poster as https://me.yahoo.com/a/jn3RbDthtvWVAf4SjINGi9CXvxDuiL5_YGM-#76700, above.
__________________________
You're right. My apologies to the other ABC guy.
Anyway, hope all is well - in Cali for Thanksgiving and it's cold! I too, always enjoy your posts. Of course, I don't need to say that, GI.
:) p.s. Happy Turkey Day!
replied to comment from LemonLime
| November 20, 2012 3:09 PM
| Reply
It occurred to me that it would be delightful to see a monkey hurling feces with rhyme and reason.
I had to laugh, as it has been exactly the first image that occurred to me after reading that surreal line: "Monkey...hurling feces with no rhyme or reason".
Well, this guy's delivery of bullshit may have rhyme, but reason...?
Otherwise LL, you have made a very good observation about the method employed by darmand to protect his crap from being immediately blown out of the water:
"YGM 76700 is also deploying the tactic of obfuscation through complex quantity -- which is a two-fer: it not only helps to obscure the lies and the anti-Western animus; it also serves to wear down the opponents through the tedium of having to refute him -- for a thorough refutation of his long posts would require the labor of weeding through and detaching the lies from the kitman half-truths, then those two from the straw men and red herrings...
That's exactly his strategy. He may be an imbecile, but the method he consistently adheres to is very clever.
Makes me think of moslem spokesmen. They are, as rule, sub-intellectual, but they believe in the effectiveness of repetitive, cleverly applied stupidity and never venture beyond the boundary set up by the method.
replied to comment from David Dowse
| November 20, 2012 3:19 PM
| Reply
David Dowse wrote:
You're right. My apologies to the other ABC guy.
........................
Actually, the other "ABC" guy's an even more blatant Jihadist than the ugly antisemite posting on this thread.
But just to confuse things further, there's *another* "ABC guy" on that other thread who appears to be a solid Anti-Jihadist.
It was like the problem a while ago, where posters signing on to Jihad Watch from a certain platform—I forget the details at this point—were all automatically assigned the username "D".
At one point, we had a vicious Muslim "D", a nasty antisemitic white supremacist "D", a very reasonable poster from Australia named David "D", and a bunch of other more or less reasonable posters, all going by "D".
Well, I suppose it gets things from getting too dull around here.
More:
Anyway, hope all is well - in Cali for Thanksgiving and it's cold! I too, always enjoy your posts. Of course, I don't need to say that, GI.
........................
Thank you, David.
And yes, right now it is darkly overcast, very chilly, and has been raining on and off all day. It is just a few minutes after three pm, but I've already got the lights on.
Still, not complaining. I'm going out later today to get the last ingredients for Thanksgiving dinner.
We had our twenty-five year old microwave oven—it was my husband's before we met—die, and two days later our fifteen year old range gave up the ghost, as well. Both proved to be unfixable.
Delivery of the new stove—after several delays due to shipping problems—comes on Friday, the day *after* Thanksgiving.
But we do have our brand new microwave, so I'm cobbling together something reasonably resembling a proper Thanksgiving dinner.
Heck, when I was in college, I manged to fix a traditional Thanksgiving meal on two hot plates and a toaster oven.
After two weeks of take-out and being able to make nothing but salads—which are hardly good cold weather fare—I'm just happy to be able to cook hot food at all.
That gives me something to be thankful for, all right!
More:
:) p.s. Happy Turkey Day!
........................
And to you, David! A fine time to count our blessings.
replied to comment from gravenimage
| November 20, 2012 5:05 PM
| Reply
graven,
"But just to confuse things further, there's *another* "ABC guy"..."
Perhaps it's not mere accident. This confusion by itself can be effective, especially when added to the other tactics used.
I mean surely, if these guys can figure out the true meaning of such a complex issue as the Middle Eastern "Palestinian" conflict, then surely they can figure out how to sign onto a discussion forum like the rest of us.
As for darmanad, are you sure about him? I have vaguely ugly memories of that name, as though from a recurring nightmare; but I'd have to spend some time doing Advanced Google to make sure.
replied to comment from LemonLime
| November 20, 2012 9:45 PM
| Reply
LL
I was picking up on that - what you call "the tactic of obfuscation through complex quantity".
*I* call it 'sand-throwing'.
BTW, OT, but since the topic has come up: Happy Thanksgiving to all American jihadwatchers, both posters and lurkers.
replied to comment from gravenimage
| November 21, 2012 3:17 AM
| Reply
OK. First to the extent your words convey a compliment, thank you.
I have read 76700's comments here and on other threads carefully and remain impressed with his knowledge and insights which are far more incisive than most who post here.
I find it frustrating that the ad hominem infantile attacks usually avoid discussion of the points he makes. To the extent counter arguement is offered I find it unconvincing.
I agree with 76700's response to Wellington (the guy who asserts the US has the right to unilaterally install the leader of its choice in Iraq and probably anywhere else it deems fit) after Wellington wrote "Go away. You're bothering us" (which was only slightly more considered than miriam rove's "f off." Said 76700:
These sorts of dismissals are common with people who refuse to face bothersome facts, or resort to epithets like 'Jew-hater.' And that includes the Islamist apologists people here criticize, for calling their opponents
'Islamophobes.'
Instead of debating the issues people get off on impressing the Jwatch buddies how cleverly they can insult him. So, for example, Lemon Lime goes into a long winded and convoluted analysis of "kitman" and 76700's alleged tactic of obfuscation through complex quantity." LL would have better spent his time responding to the specific issues rather than trying to impress us with his erudition.
Contrary to what you say, Graven, nothing that 76700 has written can fairly be interpreted to accuse him of "really urging us to do is completely abandon Israel to violent Jihad." Quite the opposite. My reading is that he has a concern for Israel's continued existence and believes, like the majority of Israelis, that a prosperous Palestinian state, sooner rather than later, is in the bests of Israel. I agree.
Jwatch readers have such (righteous) antipathy for all things Islam, that as with RS, it distorts their analyses of geopolitics. Get a grip boys and girls.
replied to comment from darmanad
| November 21, 2012 3:51 AM
| Reply
"Get a grip boys and girls."
Get a brain, dunce.
replied to comment from thomas_h
| November 21, 2012 4:12 AM
| Reply
What is your point? Do you have one?
replied to comment from darmanad
| November 21, 2012 5:51 AM
| Reply
"What is your point? Do you have one?"
Gosh, you must be the only one among the "boys and girls", as you refer to the commenters here, who is unable to see my "point".
OK, I'll try to make it even clearer than all the "boys and girls" including myself have done before.
You see, on the base of your uniquely stupid comments we have arrived at the conclusion that you must be a uniquely stupid person. One can't argue with the logic involved in our reasoning, do you? Well, you probably can.
We have expressed that opinion, often quite explicitly, on many occasions only to make you repeat exactly the same crap with occasional, slight change of "rhythm" - to use your own metaphor. We expected that it eventually will dawn on you that you are a laughing stock of the website and quietly disappear. But somehow that moment never arrived and a suspicion grew that you must be an idiot. Now one of a few things about idiot is that he would never conceive of possibility he is one, except perhaps after a brain transplant.
And that what I was suggesting to you.
You get a brain - you perceive in a flash you are an idiot and laughing stock - you get embarrassed - you go away - "the boys and girls" forget about you the moment you disappear. Simple, no?
Do you see my point now?
replied to comment from thomas_h
| November 21, 2012 6:53 AM
| Reply
Bur tell me, Thomas, how do you really feel about me?
replied to comment from darmanad
| November 21, 2012 7:53 AM
| Reply
"My reading is that he has a concern for Israel's continued existence and believes, like the majority of Israelis, that a prosperous Palestinian state, sooner rather than later, is in the bests of Israel. I agree."
_______________________________________________
Well, goodie for you. Your reading is your reading. I would guess that your "reading" is biased and that is because you have some ulterior motive. You may or may not, but that's my "reading" of your reading, since the fact of the matter is that you stayed on the sidelines up to the exact point (nearly) where your hero admitted being a "Roman Catholic", then a "Muslim", then curiously, BACK to being a Catholic.
In short, your "reading", like the "conclusions" you reach vis a vis Israel, obfuscation, erudition of your hero, etc., etc., is fundamentally and fatally flawed.
Trouble is, I don't have any interest, nor the time, to re-hash 2 weeks of the thrashing that your boy got!
Anyone who has been following this "Yahoo's" comments over the last 2 weeks would conclude what I did - and what he finally admitted to - that he is a Taquiyya addicted Muslim.
_____________________________________
If he's so damned concerned about the continued viability of the Jews and their state, why would he have felt the need to hide his religious affiliation?
Finally, you may think GI, DDA, Graven, LL, Thomas, et alia are less than clear thinkers - think again. Personally, I think YOU'RE a Muslim, covering for another Muslim.
Are you? Tell us the truth, now!
replied to comment from David Dowse
| November 21, 2012 8:06 AM
| Reply
"Personally, I think YOU'RE a Muslim, covering for another Muslim." Are you? Tell us the truth, now!
David,you talking to me?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4e9CkhBb18E
replied to comment from darmanad
| November 21, 2012 8:49 AM
| Reply
"David,you talking to me?"
_________________________
Uhhh....NO! I guess I was talking to that OTHER guy who posts here under "darmanad".
My bad. I'm so sorry./
But hey, since you responded under the name, "darmanad", I'll just ask the question again:
Are you a Muslim or not?
ABC trollboy finally admitted it.
Why won't you?
_____________
Oh! And by the way, what does DiNiro have to do with Death Cults like Islam?
replied to comment from darmanad
| November 21, 2012 8:52 AM
| Reply
"David,you talking to me?"
_________________________
Uhhh....NO! I guess I was talking to that OTHER guy who posts here under "darmanad".
My bad. I'm so sorry./
But hey, since you responded under the name, "darmanad", I'll just ask the question again:
Are you a Muslim or not?
ABC trollboy finally admitted it.
Why won't you?
_____________
Oh! And by the way, what does DeNiro have to do with Death Cults like Islam?
Pfft!
replied to comment from darmanad
| November 21, 2012 1:05 PM
| Reply
gravenimage, you can see from his obtuse response to you about the yahoo troll that darmanad is clearly not on our side. Further confirmation of this is available in more recent threads up top, parceled out in a number of his comments.
The "Big Tent" ideal is good, but there has to be limits.
replied to comment from LemonLime
| November 21, 2012 1:35 PM
| Reply
PS:
gravenimage, I forgot to mention the most important thing, perhaps: darmanad's last post to you above exemplifies exactly what I articulated in my post about how YGM7600whatever weaves a complex tissue of half-truths and lies that can confuse an otherwise relatively intelligent reader who seems to be not half bad from other comments: darmanad has been sucked into giving credibility and sincerity and cogency to YGM6700whatever's posts.
The only question is whether darmanad is that obtuse; or that compromised by Leftism. There is no third reasonable explanation.
replied to comment from LemonLime
| November 21, 2012 2:06 PM
| Reply
Define "Leftism" and I will gladly answer your question whether I am compromised by it.
replied to comment from darmanad
| November 21, 2012 3:31 PM
| Reply
darmanad wrote:
OK. First to the extent your words convey a compliment, thank you.
I have read 76700's comments here and on other threads carefully and remain impressed with his knowledge and insights which are far more incisive than most who post here.
.......................
Given the fact that his *insights* include the idea that standing against Jihad is utterly futile, I am concerned about what you consider "incisive".
More:
Keep up the good work YGM76700. Your posts are interesting and thought provoking. Ignor (sic) the monkeys who high five each other in the course of hurling feces.
I can only judge people by how and what they write. Graven, David douse, Buraq, Dumbledor, Thomas h, and to a somewhat lesser extent Wellington do not strike me as very smart or, more importantly, ethical.
.......................
David Dowse, Buraq, Dumbledore's Army, Thomas H, and Wellington are some of the both most intelligent *and* most ethical posters here.
The idea that thoughtful people like Wellington and Dumbledore's Army "avoid serious debate like the plague" could not be more untrue.
More:
I find it frustrating that the ad hominem infantile attacks usually avoid discussion of the points he makes.
.......................
You don't consider characterizing erudite posters as "monkeys who high five each other in the course of hurling feces" to be an ad hominem attack?
More:
To the extent counter arguement is offered I find it unconvincing.
.......................
What, exactly, do you find unconvincing? Dumbledore's Army and I, especially, have gone through some of his Taqiyya line by line.
More:
Said 76700:
These sorts of dismissals are common with people who refuse to face bothersome facts, or resort to epithets like 'Jew-hater.' And that includes the Islamist apologists people here criticize, for calling their opponents
'Islamophobes.'
.......................
"76700" has consistently urged us to abandon Israel to the Muslims currently targeting Israeli schools and launching rockets at civilian Tel Aviv. You may not consider this "Jew hatred", but if not, then the phrase has no real meaning.
More:
Instead of debating the issues people get off on impressing the Jwatch buddies how cleverly they can insult him. So, for example, Lemon Lime goes into a long winded and convoluted analysis of "kitman" and 76700's alleged tactic of obfuscation through complex quantity." LL would have better spent his time responding to the specific issues rather than trying to impress us with his erudition.
.......................
LemonLime was exhibiting the very analysis you claim to favor. Muslim apologists use of obfuscation is a very real aspect of Jihad propaganda, and is certainly one of the "specific issues" in this case.
More:
Contrary to what you say, Graven, nothing that 76700 has written can fairly be interpreted to accuse him of "really urging us to do is completely abandon Israel to violent Jihad." Quite the opposite.
.......................
This is like saying that Tokyo Rose's actual concerns was that no American soldier would have to receive another "Dear John" letter, ever again. Of course, it had *nothing* to do with demoralizing the American forces...sarc/off
More:
My reading is that he has a concern for Israel's continued existence and believes, like the majority of Israelis, that a prosperous Palestinian state, sooner rather than later, is in the bests of Israel. I agree.
.......................
On several other threads recently, you have spammed the idea that there really is no serious Jihad against Israel, that Hamas is some unimportant fringe group, and that "Palestinian" Muslims are really all peaceful secularists eager to set up a democratic state next to their good neighbors, the Israelis.
Never mind that Muslims all over the world crow at the impending destruction of Israel; that "Hamas, Hamas, Jews to the Gas" is now a popular genocidal Muslim chant, even in places as far away as Belgium; that Hamas is no fringe group, but was elected as leadership by the majority of Gazans; that there is no "Palestinian" movement to recognize Israel; and that independent Gaza, far from being a Jeffersonian democracy, is sliding ever further into Shari'ah barbarism.
More:
Jwatch readers have such (righteous) antipathy for all things Islam, that as with RS, it distorts their analyses of geopolitics. Get a grip boys and girls.
.......................
It is, instead, your own misreading (at best) that leads you to imply that all beleaguered Israel need do to end the Jihad violence against her is to give up yet more land, render herself even more vulnerable to Muslim sallies, and to grace the launch pad of these barbarous attacks against her with the sobriquet "sovereign state".
What could possibly lead you to believe that a "Palestinian" state with its capital in East Jerusalem would be anything but a platform from which to launch more Jihad against Israel?
And what about the Jihad world wide? Are we to believe that Muslims will stop the Jihad and push to impose Shari'ah in western China, and Afghanistan, and Indonesia, and Malaysia, and Pakistan, and India, and Russia, and Iraq, and Syria, and Turkey, and the Balkans, and Yemen, and Somalia, and Egypt, and the Sudan, and Mali, and Kenya, and Nigeria, and all over the West, if only Hamas is officially "recognized" as a 'global leader'?
This is either deep denial on your part, or it is something considerably worse.
replied to comment from darmanad
| November 21, 2012 5:32 PM
| Reply
I see that back in April of this year, a commenter I haven't seen in months -- one "PETE SHEARER" -- noticed darmanad's deficiencies; pertinently, concerning "Leftism":
Just last month, dumbledores army crossed keys with darmanad:
Quoting darmanad's preposterous statement:
" A cogent arguments can be made that US foreign policy is much more bellicose than that of Iran..".
dda responded:
"That is insane moral equivalencing; as is your attempt, above, to equate Bush with Ahmadinejad."
Then dda proceeded to expand on her riposte, and offered evidence.
Meanwhile, back in June, I articulated an answer and argument clarifying what was baffling and annoying darmanad back then -- and continues to baffle him because he doesn't really read anyone's responses to him, I guess: namely, why we in the CJ (someday to graduate to the AIM) do not take kindly to Leftists:
and:
http://www.jihadwatch.org/2012/06/zionists-defeat-la-jewish-federation-geller-event-goes-on-as-scheduled.html#comment-888543
(which I guess I never saw, in order to disabuse; though my comment in another thread would do just fine:
http://www.jihadwatch.org/2012/07/bulgaria-jihad-mass-murderer-was-released-from-guantanamo-after-being-featured-in-documentary-attack.html#comment-892720
).
An apposite observation from Wellington back in August about darmanad's obsession with exonerating Leftists:
And, in the same thread, moi:
And all this is not to mention darmanad's grievously wrongheaded lesson he has brainwashed himself with about the Vietnam War, in a recent thread somewhere next door to here (upstairs or down). Wellington fended that off in fine fashion, as usual. darmanad's exploitation of the My Lai massacre as somehow emblematic of the US Military is classic garden-variety Leftism -- the same kind that led Senator Heinz Ketchup (Massachusetts Democratic Senator and Presidential candidate John Kerry) to slander the US Military as "worse than Genghis Khan". That's the kind of pneumopathology Leftism breeds in the heart and mind of an otherwise intelligent person.
Anywho: That should be enough homework for those who wish to brush up on "Why Darmanad is a Liability for the CJ".
P.S.: And some supplementary reading -- Wellington once again taking darmanad to school (not that it's of any use), see the multiple responses by Wellington:
P.P.S.: And, last but not least, see gravenimage's fine wrap-up two posts up of various holes in daramanad's logic.
replied to comment from LemonLime
| November 21, 2012 6:25 PM
| Reply
LemonLime wrote:
gravenimage, you can see from his obtuse response to you about the yahoo troll that darmanad is clearly not on our side. Further confirmation of this is available in more recent threads up top, parceled out in a number of his comments.
The "Big Tent" ideal is good, but there has to be limits.
................................
Well, you're right. My first impulse—naïve at times, I concede—is always to give the benefit of the doubt if there is any question in my mind as to the poster's motives.
But I should have realized from his vicious and false characterizations of respected posters here that his was likely *not* an honest error.
He's made a few good comments in the past, but then almost immediately undercuts them with some vicious nonsense.
Right now, he is spamming the threads with the idea that all Jihad would end if only Israel bared her throat further, gave up yet more land, and recognized genocidal Hamas as a respected government.
The last post of his I read was especially grimly laughable—that once this marvelous "Palestinian" state was established, that large numbers of Jews would be invited to move to the "West Bank" to get things up and running for their Muslim neighbors.
This shows that darmanad is either dangerously delusional, or else entirely meretricious.
replied to comment from LemonLime
| November 21, 2012 9:08 PM
| Reply
Well, you've trussed darmanad up nicely, LL. Thanks for that expose.
You've just convinced me that he's an irredeemable troll and I won't waste my time on him any further.
Good work, buddy.
replied to comment from gravenimage
| November 22, 2012 7:23 AM
| Reply
Graven wrote: "David Dowse, Buraq, Dumbledore's Army, Thomas H, and Wellington are some of the both most intelligent *and* most ethical posters here.'
.................
You are delusional, but if that's the cream of the crop, then this site is an arid dust bowl of thought and intelligent debate. These characters continually make vague references to counter arguments that have "totally destroyed the opinions of that dude," but which for the most part are nothing more than ad hominem attacks borne of frustration from the inabilty to debate issues honestly and intelligently, much less to set forth real
convincing couunterpoints.
It's laughable. Most just keep regurgitating how evil the Muslims are, how much killing they have done, how barbaric, how dumb anyone is who doesn't know that is, how anyone who supports a 2 state solution (like the current Likud administrtion) is naive and ignorant of the true beliefs of Hamas or Muslims in general, etc .
Hardly anyne utters a sensible remark about geopolitics. Its just Muslims this and Muslims that. My god, people, are you not capable of any sustained thinking above the 4th grade level? I've never see so many absurd truly infantile ad hominem attacks. Like small children these people get off on trying to impress their fellow JWatch buddies on just how cleverly they can insult someone trying to maintain an intelligent conversation. High fives and backslapping galore "dude." Hey guys, take a recess for milk and cookies.
I wish RS success in combating jihad, but his website is cluttered with a lot of stupid people.
replied to comment from LemonLime
| November 22, 2012 9:14 AM
| Reply
Uh, despite your tedious recapitulation of something or other, you neglected to do the one simple thing I asked. You neglected to define "Leftism" so that I could answer your question. Can't you do that without rambling on?
replied to comment from darmanad
| November 22, 2012 10:33 AM
| Reply
darmanad wrote:
Graven wrote: "David Dowse, Buraq, Dumbledore's Army, Thomas H, and Wellington are some of the both most intelligent *and* most ethical posters here.'
.................
You are delusional, but if that's the cream of the crop, then this site is an arid dust bowl of thought and intelligent debate.
.............................
What rot. It's just that their comments are not supporting your completely unsupported fantasy that 1400 years of Jew hatred and savagery would disappear in an instant were a "Palestinian" state to be declared.
I also notice that you are unable to refute the factual nature of their comments. Instead, you like to pretend that the horrifically sanguinary nature of Islam is simply irrelevant.
More:
It's laughable. Most just keep regurgitating how evil the Muslims are, how much killing they have done, how barbaric...
.............................
You don't believe that the mountains of proof that Islam is and always has been utterly savage, violent, and genocidaly antisemitic could be a factor in your vision of a peaceful, ciuvlized Palestinian state that welcomes Jews to settle in the West Bank with open arms?
How could this *not* be an issue? And it is not just Islam's terrible history of violence, it is also that there is *no* "Palestinain" counter movement to live peacefully with Jews—or any other Infidels.
More:
Hardly anyne utters a sensible remark about geopolitics. Its just Muslims this and Muslims that...
.............................
The geopolitics of the Levant have consistently shown "Palestinians" (if you blanch at considering them Muslims), Egyptians, Syrians, and other local Arabs attacking and oppressing Jews even before Israel existed. In 1948, Arab and other countries in the Muslim world (hard not to notice that it was only Muslim countries that did this) expelled their entire Jewish population on the founding of Israel.
Despite the fact that this was Israel within the 1967 borders, Muslims attacked Israel over and over again. This was when Egypt had control of Gaza, and Jordan of the "West Bank". There was no call for a "Palestinian" state then—indeed, the phrase wasn't even coined until after 1967.
And yet, Muslims still attacked Israel.
And the geopolitics of the region have been the same ever since, with the added trope that a "Palestinian" state would somehow change everything.
Even if you decide that it is somehow more 'sophisticated' to ignore the bellicose and bloody state of Islam throughout its history and in every other part of the world, it is well to remember that nothing in the discreet geopolitics of the Levant points to a stable, democratic state living in peace with its Jewish neighbors, either.
More:
I wish RS success in combating jihad, but his website is cluttered with a lot of stupid people.
.............................
In what way, exactly, do you want to see us combat Jihad? Despite what you want to believe, Israel baring her neck to pious Muslims would *not* end Jihad. I can think of nothing, in fact, that would so enable Jihad as that.
In answer to your question "In what way, exactly, do you want to see us combat Jihad?" which I will interpret as what do you propose to break the mideast stalemate, I herewith reprint an earlier post from a different thread, a post which none of the Jwatchers thought sufficiently germane to engage (so far at least).
.................................
Some commenters seem to think I am a Muslim or an anti-semite despite my post identifying myself as a non-religious, but proud to be Jew. I want Israel to thrive as a Jewish state. I have written here often specifying why I abhor Islam. I have alienated some of my friends and acquaintances because I regularly distribute items published on JWatch and other sites which demonstrate the violation of fundamental human and civil rights inherent in Islam. Some of acquaintances probably think I am compulsive and may have written me off as such, but I do it anyway because I think it is important. I want to combat jihad. If I had my way, sharia law would be banned around the world. It is barbaric and often inhumane. Do you get the picture?
Despite my antipathy towards Islam, in my opinion the best way to achieve a permanent cease fire as a stepping stone to enduring peace in the mideast (and around other parts of the globe) is to establish a prosperous Palestinian state on the land designated for it (more or less) by the UN partition plan. I know the contents of the Hamas charter and all the fanatic Jew hatred of the pious Muslim mind, but in my view continued settlement construction by Israel only serves to accelerate Islamic religious fanaticsm and breed mujahedeen. It's counter productive. Besides acting as a catalyst for jihad by the world's most fanatic Muslims far and near to Israel, settlement construction is viewed by the non-Muslim world community as unjust and, dare I say it, greedy. Whether it's fair or not, Israel is viewed by much of the non-Muslim world as an aggessive bully and is on the road to becoming a pariah.
Okay, I know it's easy for me sitting here in the comfort of my office far from the firing lines to say that the Israelis must work more vigorously with the secular Palestinians, yes, must even be willing to trust them to keep their word, but unfortunately I see no other viable option. A perpetual state of war is not an option and ultimately will lead to Israel's elimination as a Jewish state. Continued hostilites only strengthen Hamas's power within the Palestinian population at large. Abbas is seen as a syncophant whereas Hamas is respected because to the distorted Muslim mind, they are perceived as freedom fighters.
So...Israel must stop settlement construction, negotiate with a secular representative of the Palestinians (someone who can fulfill this role needs to be identifed and supported), agree to boundaries roughly akin to those existing in 1967, compromise on the governance of Jeresulem (joint governance of a city state like the Vatican), negotiate a symbolic right of return that will not effect a Jewish majority, pay reparations to those Arabs that emigrated by force or fear and left behind property and rely on a strong internaional presence on the ground to keep the peace.
Now if anyone would like to debate this , I'm open to hearing your ideas and criticisms, but please don't assume I am ignorant of the tenets of Islam or naive enough to believe Hamas or Hezbollah will ever stop trying to eliminate Israel. My thinking is that there has to be a more vigorous attempt to end the hotilities with a secular Palestinian government representative or, at the very least, a sectarian one which will agree to a Jewish state even if only for the short term as in hudna. If carefully monitored by an international force any such Islamic Palestinian goverment will face great difficulty instituting hostilities anew. It would then become the pariah.
replied to comment from CGW
| November 22, 2012 8:39 PM
| Reply
Thanks CGW. I'm done with darmanad too. He essentially performs the same function as the YGM troll -- an attempt at obfuscation and wearing us down through the tedium of complex dancing around, evasions, mixed in with table-turning distractions (e.g., demanding that I define "Leftism" as though that will take the spotlight off his studious evasion of over two dozen cogent points and challenges from others).
replied to comment from LemonLime
| November 23, 2012 2:45 AM
| Reply
I know for certain that asking you to specify the "two dozen cogent points" I have studiously avoided would be a waste of time. You could not do so any more than you could define Leftism. You would only make some stammering excuse about me wearing you down with table turning distractions. Being unable to define Leftism exposes you as the dunce you are.
And what you dismiss as table turning distractions are in truth important issues, issues that not just rehash the ideology of Islam, but which seek to resolve the maze of competing interests that have been the cause of the mideast conflict.
Get a decent education, clown (with a hat's off to Buraq). Start here: http://www.foreignaffairs.com/articles/138434/ehud-yaari/how-to-end-the-war-in-gaza?page=show
I know it would be a waste of time to ask you to identify any of the two dozen cogent points that you say I have studiously avoided. You can't or won't even define "Leftism." Dunce.
What you dismiss as table turning distractions are in fact important issues that go beyond a simple rehashing of the evils of Islam, and which are important to debate in order to resolve the competing interests that have caused war in the mideast and around the globe.
Get a decent education, dunce. Start here:
http://www.foreignaffairs.com/articles/138434/ehud-yaari/how-to-end-the-war-in-gaza?page=show
You and the other members of the monkey gan might benefit from reading this.
replied to comment from darmanad
| November 23, 2012 5:46 PM
| Reply
In answer to your question "In what way, exactly, do you want to see us combat Jihad?" which I will interpret as what do you propose to break the mideast stalemate, I herewith reprint an earlier post from a different thread, a post which none of the Jwatchers thought sufficiently germane to engage (so far at least).
.................................
Like many American Jihad Watchers, I have been busy with Thanksgiving, and have only commented on a couple of stories over the holiday. The idea that my not having replied to one of your posts is some sort of slight is ridiculous—in fact, I hadn't even seen it yet.
More:
Some commenters seem to think I am a Muslim or an anti-semite despite my post identifying myself as a non-religious, but proud to be Jew. I want Israel to thrive as a Jewish state. I have written here often specifying why I abhor Islam. I have alienated some of my friends and acquaintances because I regularly distribute items published on JWatch and other sites which demonstrate the violation of fundamental human and civil rights inherent in Islam. Some of acquaintances probably think I am compulsive and may have written me off as such, but I do it anyway because I think it is important. I want to combat jihad. If I had my way, sharia law would be banned around the world. It is barbaric and often inhumane. Do you get the picture?
.................................
I believe many readers at Jihad Watch have gone through just this, because so many Infidels are in denial over the Jihad threat, and how often enablers of Jihad present Anti-Jihadists as "Islamophobes".
More:
Despite my antipathy towards Islam, in my opinion the best way to achieve a permanent cease fire as a stepping stone to enduring peace in the mideast (and around other parts of the globe) is to establish a prosperous Palestinian state...
.................................
In other words, if only Infidels achieve the impossible, then Muslims will *finally* leave us alone, in Israel and all over the world. They will give up on violent Jihad, the imposition of Shari'ah, and every other bloody tenet of their creed, and invite Jews to live in the West Bank.
And if they don't, it will be because we Infidels haven't done enough. This is what happens when the victims completely buy the line that Muslim violence is *their own fault*. This is, in fact, the essence of dhimmitude when the victims buy into the Muslim line.
More:
I know the contents of the Hamas charter and all the fanatic Jew hatred of the pious Muslim mind, but in my view continued settlement construction by Israel only serves to accelerate Islamic religious fanaticsm and breed mujahedeen. It's counter productive. Besides acting as a catalyst for jihad by the world's most fanatic Muslims far and near to Israel, settlement construction is viewed by the non-Muslim world community as unjust and, dare I say it, greedy. Whether it's fair or not, Israel is viewed by much of the non-Muslim world as an aggessive bully and is on the road to becoming a pariah.
.................................
Why didn't Muslims and other antisemites suddenly develop a positive view of Israel when she pulled out of Gaza? Or when she turned the Sinai over to Egypt?
"Settlements" are the grievance de jour. If Israel decided to shut down all building in Judea and Samaria tomorrow, and compelled all her people to leave, and rendered the "West Bank" as Judenrein as Gaza, it would change nothing.
As long was Israel exists, she will be a target.
More:
Okay, I know it's easy for me sitting here in the comfort of my office far from the firing lines to say that the Israelis must work more vigorously with the secular Palestinians, yes, must even be willing to trust them to keep their word, but unfortunately I see no other viable option.
.................................
Secular Muslims have no real power. The very fact that they are identified as "secular Muslims" rather than ex-Muslims is because they are too terrified to admit their having left Islam. And to assume that secular Muslims are free of Muslim Jew-hatred presents a great leap of faith, in any case.
As for Israel trusting Muslims, it regularly trusts Muslims, who all too frequently violate that trust. Israel offers medical care in its fine hospitals and clinics to Muslims, often free of charge. There have been several attempted Jihad terror attacks on medical staff by pious Muslims intent on murdering their benefactors.
And that bus in Tel Aviv was likely blown up by a Muslim living in Israel.
Muslim members of the Knesset regularly excuse Jihad terror, and at least one former member is a terrorist himself, who fled the country after his providing information and money to Hizb'allah was discovered.
Israel trusted that Muslims would not turn Gaza into a launching pad for Jihad against Jews.
You see how all that has turned out.
Yet, as you would have it, what is really needed is for Israel to prove they are worthy by exhibiting even more trust of Muslims.
More:
A perpetual state of war is not an option and ultimately will lead to Israel's elimination as a Jewish state.
.................................
This may indeed be the case. Where you err is in believing that Israel is responsible for that war against her, and that she is capable of unilaterally stopping it by appeasing aggressive Muslims yet further. When has this *ever* worked?
More:
Continued hostilites only strengthen Hamas's power within the Palestinian population at large. Abbas is seen as a syncophant whereas Hamas is respected because to the distorted Muslim mind, they are perceived as freedom fighters.
.................................
And how will people with such beliefs be good neighbors—or even non-lethal neighbors—for Israel?
More:
So...Israel must stop settlement construction, negotiate with a secular representative of the Palestinians (someone who can fulfill this role needs to be identifed and supported), agree to boundaries roughly akin to those existing in 1967, compromise on the governance of Jeresulem (joint governance of a city state like the Vatican), negotiate a symbolic right of return that will not effect a Jewish majority, pay reparations to those Arabs that emigrated by force or fear and left behind property and rely on a strong internaional presence on the ground to keep the peace.
.................................
How can Israel find a "secular representative" among the "Palestinian" Muslims, when even "slow Jihadist" Abbas has been discredited in favor of "fast Jihadists" Hamas? How would any of these people—if such there be—be authorized to speak for the "Palestinians"?
And I ask again—you have never addressed this—if all Israel need do to have peace is return to her 1967 borders and cede large parts of Jerusalem, then why were Muslims trying to destroy her prior to 1967, when they had control of all those parts of Jerusalem?
Instead of being at peace, surrounding Muslims launched a full-scale war against Israel, hoping to destroy her utterly.
It was only Israel's fighting back—*not* her further appeasement—that allowed her to survive then.
More:
Now if anyone would like to debate this , I'm open to hearing your ideas and criticisms, but please don't assume I am ignorant of the tenets of Islam or naive enough to believe Hamas or Hezbollah will ever stop trying to eliminate Israel. My thinking is that there has to be a more vigorous attempt to end the hotilities with a secular Palestinian government representative or, at the very least, a sectarian one which will agree to a Jewish state even if only for the short term as in hudna.
.................................
No "Palestinian" government has *ever* recognized Israel, so this might be tough.
More:
If carefully monitored by an international force any such Islamic Palestinian goverment will face great difficulty instituting hostilities anew. It would then become the pariah.
.................................
Right now, the closest thing to what you describe is the United Nations Interim Force in Lebanon (UNIFIL). This "force" has consistently been unable—and often, unwilling—to even attempt to curb Hizb'allah attacks on Israel.
As for "Palestinians" becoming pariahs if they continued to attack Israel, all I can say is that it hasn't stopped them so far—and I doubt that having another "Potemkin village" force in place in Gaza would make any such difference.
More:
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-11-20/seven-truths-about-israel-hamas-and-violence.html
.................................
This article doesn't posit anything new. And the author's implication that Fatah would be strong if only Israel hadn't "undermined" them by building settlements is ridiculous.
For one thing, they are hardly peaceful neighbors to Israel, in any case. Two "Intifadas" and countless Jihad terror attacks on Israel were carried out under their aegis.
But Hamas has promised to be even more vicious towards the hated Jews—and with pious Muslims, the greater aggressor towards the Infidel usually wins out.
More:
You and the other members of the monkey gan (sic) might benefit from reading this.
http://www.economist.com/news/leaders/21567086-ceasefire-between-israel-and-hamas-could-yet-be-unlikely-foundation-peace-old-battles?fsrc=nlw|wwp|11-22-2012|4222004|36145209|LA
.................................
I don't see how. The Economist article does note that Israel is genuinely under threat, but then posits absurdities such as the Shari'ah states of the "Arab Spring" being more democratic than Israel; the idea that Israel herself "created a powder keg" that led to Jihad terrorists blowing up a bus in Tel Aviv, despite the fact that Jihadists perpetrated these sort of terror attacks all the time before Israel erected the security fence (which makes it likely, incidentally, that this Jihad terror attack was carried out by Muslims living in Israel proper); the idea that Israel should cede yet more territory for security, even though ceding the Sinai and Gaza only made things worse; and stated that "Arab outsiders" should pressure Fatah to come together with their Hamas murderers, and that Israel facing a united front of parties who are seeking her destruction would—*somehow*—make her safer.
I do believe that you want to see Israel safe and prosperous—but clearly this has led you to desperation and wishful thinking, to the extent that you lash out at anyone who has the temerity to point this out. I'm sorry to see it.
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— Bat Ye’or
“Robert Spencer is indefatigable. He is keeping up the good fight long after many have already given up. I do not know what we would do without him. I appreciate all the intelligence and courage it takes to keep going despite the appeasement of the West.”
— Ibn Warraq
“America's most informed, fearless, and compelling voice on modern jihadism.”
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Contrast a young lady singing Ave Maria with savages hanging, stoning and burning.
http://crossmuslims.blogspot.com/2011/09/us-and-them-nous-et-eux.html