Vatican cardinal's blood libel: "I think of the ‘massacre of the innocents’. Children are dying in Gaza"

Shameful and unconscionable. Not a word about how Hamas launches attacks from civilian areas in order to provoke civilian casualties they can use for propaganda purposes. Not a word about how the Palestinian propaganda machine publishes faked footage of civilian deaths. Not a word about the indiscriminate rocket attacks against Israeli civilians. Not a word about how "Palestinians" celebrate the mass murders of Israeli civilians by passing out candy.

The Vatican has entered a very, very dark age.

"The Vatican on Gaza: Israel is a Baby-Killer,” by Giulio Meotti for Israel National News, November 21 (thanks to exdemexlib):

Cardinal Gianfranco Ravasi, President of the Vatican Council for Culture, commenting on the war between Israel and Hamas, delivered a severe attack on the Jewish people: “I think of the ‘massacre of the innocents’. Children are dying in Gaza, their mothers’ shouts is a perennial cry, a universal cry”.

The Catholic Church high official equated Israel’s operation in Gaza against terror groups with the New Testament story of Herod’s slaughter of Jewish babies in his effort to kill Jesus.

Ravasi, who is one of the most popular Catholic cardinals and the director of the Church’s policy on culture, called Israelis baby-killers in a shameless form of anti-Semitism which subtly accuses the Jewish State of trying to murder the new Jesus, symbolized by the Palestinian people.

The Vatican official’s modern blood libel against Israel was delivered during the presentation of Pope Benedict’s new book about the life of Jesus. However, Ravasi's theme – the Jews as Herod, who killed all the innocent babies because his heart was set on killing Jesus – was much beloved by Medieval organizers of pogroms.

The vicar-general of the Latin Patriarchate of Jerusalem, William Shomali, said on Vatican Radio that “what is happening in Gaza now is a vicious circle of violence”. The auxiliary bishop then declared that “it’s difficult to know who started it”. How difficult?

A few weeks ago, in an interview with the Catholic magazine Famiglia Cristiana, Shomali claimed that “hatred of Christians” is the Talmud itself. "The Talmud, the holy book studied by the ultra-orthodox, more highly venerated than the Bible itself, invites religious hatred, speaks badly of Jesus, and even worse of Mary and, in general, of Christians,” the bishop said, adding that “in Israeli schools, love for the other is not taught, but rather the destruction of the other”....

Shomali retails this ridiculous nonsense but I expect he has nothing at all to say about the hatred of and contempt for Jews and Christians in the Qur'an.

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Thankfully this career cardinal does not speak for the Catholic Church. (Remember Regensberg). He certainly does not speak for catholics in gerneral.
God bless Israel.

I am Catholic to my core, and I know damn well that these prelates speak for themselves, not me -- nor, in fact, for the Church, whose Divine life infused by God's grace is, however mediated by sinful and often obtuse men.

Though non-religious, I have long admired Catholicism as an enlightened religion with an extraordinary intellectual and aesthetic tradition and possessed of a profound assessment of the human condition. Not here though.

I wonder if Italy can put this cardinal on trial for being a Nazi.

My Lord and Savior is a Jewish Carpenter.
God bless Israel.

Accusing people of being 'antisemitic' for daring to criticize Israeli government policy is rather like accusing those who criticize the mistreatment of Kurds in Turkey, or Copts in Egypt as 'Islamophobes.' This is just the opposite side of the coin. The embarrassing Twitter temper-tantrum by Pamela Weiss is but one example of the readiness of ideologically blinded unequivocal supporters of Israel to jump at any supposed slight.

For the record, as a Roman Catholic, I believe that the Israeli government's current response of limited strikes on rocket batteries, as well as the use of the excellent Iron Dome system, are completely appropriate. And the civilian casualties are the unfortunate result of Hamas' despicable and cowardly policy of using Palestinians as human shields. However, lobbing epithets like 'antisemitic,' 'Jew-hater,' and 'blood-libeler' is uncalled for. Israel has hardly had an unblemished record, and not just with its treatment of Palestinians:

http://www.lewrockwell.com/orig/margolis12.html

http://rt.com/news/catholics-christian-vandalism-hate-598/

http://www.haaretz.com/news/diplomacy-defense/former-u-s-officials-say-cia-considers-israel-to-be-mideast-s-biggest-spy-threat-1.454189

You're a Roman Catholic? Ha, ha, ha. Oh Christ, might you be the former "fairuzfan?"

This is the President of the Vatican Council for Culture. You should commend Mr. Spencer for standing up against a spokesman for his own church rather than say "this career cardinal does not speak for the Catholic Church" or presumably for the Vatican itself.

First let me state that I am Catholic and worked 15 happy years for the Catholic church . Now lets ask where this asshole Cardinal Ravasi when Christians around the world are being persecuted by the followers of the "peaceful" religion of Islam? My dearest Cardinal need I remind you and the rest of the do nothings at Vatican that the last orders Jesus left for St. Peter was for him to love , feed and protect his flock. Most of the Christian churches have done nor said a damn thing about the Christians persecuted, raped , murdered maimed by Muslims because of their belief in our lord. As my Jewish friends would say "Your all a bunch of schmucks".

My point was precisely that this cardinal is NOT a spokesman for the catholic church. He is part of the Curia and heads a department in the Vatican. That does not give him the authority to speak on behalf of the church. His views are his own.
Only the Pope with or without the college of bishops has the authority in the catholic church to apply the Gospel to any particular situation.
As for Robert Spencer I have no reservation in applauding his speaking out.

Thanks, Cardinal Gianfranco Ravasi !

It is because of dishonest and antisemitic fools like you, who place the Catholic Church in a poor light.

And his position as a Cardinal does carry some weight, even though he is not speaking for the Church.

Hey Cardinal ! Why don't you get together with the idiot Rabbi, who thinks that the Islamization of Europe is a splendid thing !

You two would make a marvelous pair of dhimmmis !

The Pope must read the riot act to Cardinal Gianfranco Ravasi and take his red Cardinal's hat and throw it in the Tiber.

Catholics and Christians aren't alone when it comes to bigoted clerics. Here is a quote by the former Chief Rabbi of Jerusalem Ovadia Yosef. This is what he said in the Jerusalem Post on Octber 18, 2010.

Yosef: Gentiles exist only to serve Jews

By JONAH MANDEL

Jerusalem Post

LAST UPDATED: 10/18/2010
According to Rabbi, the lives of non-Jews in Israel are safeguarded by divinity, to prevent losses to Jews.

The sole purpose of non-Jews is to serve Jews, according to Rabbi Ovadia Yosef, the head of Shas’s Council of Torah Sages and a senior Sephardi adjudicator.

“Goyim were born only to serve us. Without that, they have no place in the world – only to serve the People of Israel,” he said in his weekly Saturday night sermon on the laws regarding the actions non-Jews are permitted to perform on Shabbat.

According to Yosef, the lives of non-Jews in Israel are safeguarded by divinity, to prevent losses to Jews.

“In Israel, death has no dominion over them... With gentiles, it will be like any person – they need to die, but [God] will give them longevity. Why? Imagine that one’s donkey would die, they’d lose their money.

This is his servant... That’s why he gets a long life, to work well for this Jew,” Yosef said.


“Why are gentiles needed? They will work, they will plow, they will reap. We will sit like an effendi and eat.

That is why gentiles were created,” he added.

This old bigot has said this sort of hatred of non Jews all his miserbale life. He is a good pal of Netanyahu and other Israeli leaders.

Where was the outrage in our media over this kind of stuff from the mouth of a Chief rabbi of Jerusalem?

I believe Rabbi Ovadia Yosef is the former Sephardic Chief Rabbi in Israel, not the former Chief Rabbi of Jerusalem. Rabbi Yosef speaks for the political party Shas, as well as for himself, his followers and his own peculiar theology. Rabbi Yosef also supported the murderous Olso accords, "land for peace," and similar folly. He's been widely condemned in Israel; by the Jewish community for his nonsensical statements and positions. Yosef is known for foolish, intemperate remarks. He speaks for himself and his party in my opinion.

Robert said, "The Vatican has entered a very, very dark age". The real question is, did it ever leave it?

I do not think that the Vatican was ever a friend of the Jews. It runs the EU behind the scenes and we all know how anti-Israel and pro-Islam the European Union is. Which is not surprising really since the EU was founded by the 'Club of Rome", an assorted collection by ex-Nazis who donned designer suits instead of jackboots.

"Cardinal Gianfranco Ravasi, President of the Vatican Council for Culture, commenting on the war between Israel and Hamas, delivered a severe attack on the Jewish people: “I think of the ‘massacre of the innocents’. Children are dying in Gaza, their mothers’ shouts is a perennial cry, a universal cry”.

"The Catholic Church high official equated Israel’s operation in Gaza against terror groups with the New Testament story of Herod’s slaughter of Jewish babies in his effort to kill Jesus."

This is what is really wrong with Ravasi's comments. The Israeli national News reporter fully gets the seriousness and the utter inappropriateness of this comparison. Knowing the difference between a paranoid autocrat and a democracy struggling to protect its citizens makes this comparison ludicrous.

It makes one wonder: did this prelate make similar comparisons when NATO was bombing Serbia?

===================================

"Ravasi, who is one of the most popular Catholic cardinals and the director of the Church’s policy on culture..."

Really? I am fairly conversant with the history and roles of many in today's Church and I can state that I have never heard of him. I wonder if he is popular with the sort who would buy into these distortions, and with few others.

"...called Israelis baby-killers in a shameless form of anti-Semitism which subtly accuses the Jewish State of trying to murder the new Jesus, symbolized by the Palestinian people."

Yes, that is precisely what this cardinal did. He has offended my religious sensibilities. The Israeli government's representative to the Vatican should protest the cardinal's choice of words.

"I do not think that the Vatican was ever a friend of the Jews. It runs the EU behind the scenes...

That is a pretty big delusion right there.

@Wellington,

i think you miss the point here.this is the 'offical's view',not the 'official view',until Vatican says so.i hope Vatican does not support his view.

In any case,informed catholics overwhelmingly support Israel's struggle for existence,as you're well aware.so there's no need to criticise/find fault with
catholicism, i feel.

I have noticed within Catholicism a contingent -- a minority -- that sympathizes to some degree with Islam's authoritarian ethos. No doubt there is ignorance of Islam involved in the sympathy, so perhaps that extenuates the Catholics involved, to some degree. But it's terrible to see. I see Christ as a bringer of liberty. I admire a great deal in Catholic intellectual and social history, but I don't think I could ever be a Catholic.

"The real question is, did it ever leave it?".

So, jack booted Nazis parading as Catholics are now running the EU behind the scenes, are they ?

Is it simply not plausible that there are buffoons in the Catholic Church, as there are in all organizations ? Or is that too simple to be true.

What's the next theory ? That the pontiff is hiding pictures of Sasquatch beneath Saint Peters Basilica ?

How is it that a simple account of what one idiot says, becomes a world wide conspiracy ?


If a Cardinal is not a spokesman for the Catholic Church, then who is? He is pretty high up there, just one step from Pope really and you still think he does not represent the Catholic Church?

Good Christian people continue to delude yourselves, but the facts and history has proven that the Cardinal is just repeating what was official Church position (and apparently still is) when it comes to the Jews.

As to the non-Catholic Christians of the Middle East, do not expect the Vatican to shed a tear for them any time soon. They do not acknowledge the Pope and even though they are the original Christians and the first followers of Christ, the Church prefers to see Islam win in the Middle East instead of them. In other words, first the Jews have to go and second in line are the non-Catholic Christians, as far as the RCC is concerned.

This is not the case of a single buffoon. The original founders of the EU were pretty tight with the Church and the Fascist parties of Europe - and many of the present leadership of the EU are all Jesuit educated too. The Holy See has more power then people suspect and runs many agencies such as The Knights of Malta, Opus Dei and Masonic Lodges like the P2. In fact many Opus Dei and Knights of Malta operatives occupy high government posts in many nations.

I am a Catholic myself but studing the history of the Church does make one sound like a conspiracy nut but I wish I were crazy and that these things were not true. Read the famous book, "The Vicars of Christ" by Peter Da Rosa and you will get the bigger picture. An organization that has lasted 2,000 years does not do so on alms and prayer. Read history and connect the dots.

Vatican Radio has aired blatant pro-Palestinian propaganda that I have heard myself late at night from a local Catholic radio station. The station professed to know nothing about it (no one is listening to what gets broadcast at 2 am?) when I protested they were running interviews and commentary with Palestinian apologists with a virulently anti-Israeli line and with absolutely no rebuttal or questioning of the speakers. These programs were coming from Vatican Radio.

I'll call you "5b9a6". You said,

I do not think that the Vatican was ever a friend of the Jews. It runs the EU behind the scenes...
Your statement about the EU is foolish. Your statement about the Vatican and the Jews is false. See the following about Eugenio Pacelli, who was Pope during World War II:
The Record of Pius XII's Opposition to Hitler
[...]

1930 Cardinal Pacelli assumes new duties. L'Osservatore Romano, which speaks the mind of the Holy Father and Church, runs a series of articles from the office of Cardinal Secretary of State severely criticizing Nazism. The October 11, 1930 article declares: "Belonging to the National Socialist Party of Hitler is irreconcilable with the Catholic Conscience." These pieces are reprinted in diocesan newspapers around the world, especially in Germany, where bishops and priests emphasize that the teaching is official Church teaching.

1932 In the 1932 German elections Catholics overwhelmingly reject Hitler with less than 15% of Catholics voting for him. But with strong support from other constituencies in Germany, this election makes the Nazis a major party and leads directly to Hitler assuming total power.

[...]

The Concordat: "Damned if you do, damned if you don't." Under intense pressure from Hitler, including terrorizing members of the Catholic Center Party, Pacelli agrees to negotiate a legal agreement between Germany and the Holy See. The agreement, called a concordat, is a clever propaganda stunt by Hitler. Simply by asking the Church to negotiate, Hitler makes himself look good. Pacelli does not trust Hitler, but wants a legal basis on which to protest. Without a concordat there will be no legal grounds to appeal Nazi encroachments on the Church's freedom. The concordat defines Church rights within the greater rights of the State. Despite misgivings the concordat seems wise at the time. Cardinal Faulhaber of Munich comments: "With the concordat we are hanged, without the concordat we are hanged, drawn and quartered."

Back in Rome, Pacelli tells the British ambassador: "I had to choose between an agreement and the virtual elimination of the Catholic Church in the Reich." He says a pistol had been held to his head, and that he felt he was negotiating "with the devil himself."

Pacelli begins to make numerous formal protests against the extreme anti-Semitism of Nazism. According to Jewish scholar and historian Jeno Levai, while Secretary of State, Pacelli oversees "the dispatch of sixty notes in which the Vatican protested to Hitler against the persecution of the Jews up to the outbreak of war."

[...]

1937 Cardinal Pacelli drafts the encyclical Mit brennender Sorge, issued in March by Pope Pius XI. It condemns Nazi racism and worship of the state in the Church's most authoritative form of teaching. It infuriates the Nazis, who respond with more persecution of Catholics.

In Dresden, Jewish intellectual Victor Klemperer records in his diary for May 22 the observation that "the papal pastoral," although banned in Germany, is being passed around by hand like a chain letter. Everyone seems to be reading it, he notes. Count Claus von Stauffenberg (a Catholic who will be executed because of his role in a 1944 attempt to assassinate Hitler) reads the encyclical and finds his doubts about Nazism confirmed.

1938 In a formal state visit to Italy, Hitler comes to Rome. Pius XI expresses sorrow and outrage at Mussolini's invitation. "To honor a cross [the swastika] which is not Christ's in the Eternal City" the Pope says, is an unhappy sign of Mussolini's "old anticlericalism." He refuses to meet Hitler.

[...]

1939 January 9, 1939. Cardinal Pacelli sends messages to the archbishops of the world asking them to try to persuade their governments to throw open their doors to the hundreds of thousands of Jews who are seeking to escape from German persecution. The next day he writes to American Cardinals asking them to intercede for exiled Jewish professors and scientists.

March 2, 1939. Cardinal Pacelli is elected Pope. He prays that he will be the Pope of Peace and calls on nations to avoid war at all costs. Calls for a peace conference at the Vatican to prevent war. The major powers are not willing to attend.

[...]

October 20. Pius XII issues his first encyclical, Summi Pontificatus, concerned with the oneness of human beings. In paragraph 48, dealing with the Church's openness to all, it describes St. Paul's vision of "the new man who is renewed unto knowledge, according to the image of Him that created him. Where there is neither Gentile nor Jew." The Nazis are furious.

The French are so pleased that they print 70,000 copies and have them dropped over Germany.

October 28. The New York Times sums it up in a headline, "Pope Condemns Dictators, Treaty Violators, Racism: Urges Restoring of Poland."

[...]

A group of high German officers opposed to Hitler plot to overthrow him and end the war. They secretly approach Pius XII and ask for help. The Pope, in an act that could cost him his life if discovered, agrees to contact the British and relay the desire of the Germans to open discussions which could lead to peace and prevent millions of deaths. The Pope contacts the British, but they are not interested in talking with any Germans, even Hitler opponents.

Pius XII orders publication of a large volume (565 pages). The Persecution of the Catholic Church in the Third Reich, in London (by Burns and Oates). It is a translation from the German of eye-witness accounts of the merciless Nazi program to crush the Church. It contains pastoral letters by many German bishops, and also reveals close cooperation between Catholics and Jews. On March 11, 1940 Pius confronts Foreign Minister Ribbentrop, concerning Nazi crimes in Poland against Poles and Jews. This heated confrontation is reported in the New York Times of March 14, 1940 under the headline: "Pope Is Emphatic About Just Peace: Jews' Rights Defended"

After Germany defeats France, additional thousands of Jews face seizure and deportation by Nazis. Pius XII sends a secret letter to Catholic bishops of Europe entitled Opere et Caritate ("By Work and by Love"). It instructs bishops to help all who are suffering racial discrimination at the hands of the Nazis. They are told to read the letter in their churches to remind their faithful that racism is "incompatible with the teachings of the Catholic Church."

[...]

1941 From the beginning of the war Vatican Radio has been regarded by the Nazis as anti-German, and Germans have been forbidden to listen to it. Now the order to arrest, imprison, even execute, anyone caught listening to it is more vigorously enforced.

On March 30 and 31, Vatican radio begins special broadcasts to France and Spain, speaking of "the wickedness of Hitler" and denounces Nazi racial theories and lies, "which have reached scandalous proportions."

[...]

December 25, New York Times editorial: "The voice of Pius XII is a lonely voice in the silence and darkness enveloping Europe this Christmas." Pius, according to the Times, has "placed himself squarely against Hitlerism."

[...]

March 9, 1942—a Vatican official in Slovakia warns of "an atrocious plan" to deport 80,000 Jews. Cardinal Maglione, Secretary of State, sends a strong note of protest. Slovak officials ignore the protest, saying the Jews are being sent "to work."

August 6, New York Times headline: "Pope is Said to Plead for Jews Listed for Removal from France."

Also in August, in Toulouse, France, Archbishop Jules Gerard Saliege's pastoral letter, which French police know about and demand that he withdraw, is sent to and read in all churches in his dioceses: "There is a Christian morality that confers rights and imposes duties: frightful things are taking place. The Jews are our brothers. They belong to mankind. No Christian can dare to forget that!"

The BBC broadcasts news of this. L’Osservatore Romano praises Saliege as a hero of religious courage. Vatican Radio broadcasts the letter and comments for four successive days. (As soon as the war is over. Pope Pius makes Saliege a Cardinal.)

In June in the diocese of Montauban Bishop Pierre-Marie Theas reminds Catholics: "I express the outrage of my Christian conscience. The present anti-Semitic measures mock human dignity and violate the most sacred rights of the human person and family."

In July, Emmanuel Cardinal Suhard of Paris and all the cardinals and bishops of France sign a joint protest to the Vichy government against the deportations.

Under direct instructions from the Pope, L'Osservatore Romano and Vatican Radio give full reports on all such actions.

In Holland and Belgium, bishops, "acting in consort with the Holy Father," denounce the "barbarous deportation of Jews." Results are tragic, especially in Holland. In Amsterdam, after 18,000 workers walk off their jobs to protest Nazi persecution, the Germans declare martial law and enforce it so brutally that the strike is crushed in three days.

There are more protests by Dutch bishops than anywhere else in Western Europe, yet a larger percentage of Jews in Holland are lost than anywhere else in the West. Some 100,000, or 80% of the entire Jewish population in the country, were killed by the Nazis.

August 27, New York Times: "Vichy Seizes Jews: Pope Pius Ignored."

Developments in France, Belgium and Holland produce a massive and scornful counter action from Goebbels' Propaganda Ministry. Ten million copies of a pamphlet attacking "the present pro-Jewish Pope," whose actions have caused "a lack of confidence in him in the Catholic world," were published and distributed by the Nazi Propaganda Minister.

October 11, Times of London editorial reports: "A study of the words which Pope Pius XII has addressed since his accession leaves no room for doubt. He condemns the worship of force and its concrete manifestation in the suppression of national liberties and the persecution of the Jewish race."

[...]

In Germany's Reich Main Security Office, the SS control center, a careful analysis of the message is filed:"The Pope has repudiated the National Socialist New European Order. His speech is one long attack on everything we stand for. God, he says, regards all peoples and races as worthy of the same consideration. Here he is clearly speaking in behalf of the Jews and makes himself the mouthpiece of the Jewish war criminals."

1943 On February 19, Vatican Radio condemns deportations and forced labor, saying "the curse of God" will fall on those who do these things to human beings.

June 2, 1943, Pope addresses the College of Cardinals: "our soul reacts with particular emotion and pressing concern to the prayers of those who turn to us with anxious eyes of pleading, in travail because of their nationality or their race, before greater catastrophes and ever more acute and serious sorrows, and destined without any fault of their own, to exterminating harassments." He regularly uses the Latin word for race, stirps, a term commonly used to refer to those of Jewish descent. L’Osservatore Romano and Vatican Radio, as usual, give full coverage to the talk. German and Italian newspapers report the talk but omit the Pope's reference to race.

June, 1943: Vatican Radio in a broadcast to France: "He who distinguishes between Jews and other men is unfaithful to God and is in conflict with God's command."

On June 21 it broadcasts to Germany on the rights of Jews under natural law. A few days later it broadcasts to Germany a defense of Yugoslav Jews: "Every man bears the stamp of God."

Pius asks Archbishop Cesare Orsenigo, Nuncio to Germany, to try to talk directly with Hitler about the persecution of Jews. After delays, Orsenigo is summoned to Berchtesgaden where Hitler receives him. The meeting observes the diplomatic amenities until Orsenigo brings up "the Jewish question." Hitler immediately turns his back, grabs a glass from the table and smashes it on the floor.

October 16. The Gestapo seizes 1007 Jews in Rome. Pius vigorously protests to German authorities. The Germans refuse to release those already seized, but stop additional mass round-ups. Approximately eighty-five percent of Roman Jews escape the Nazis, many finding refuge in Church buildings Pius had ordered opened to shelter them.

October 17, New York Times headline: "Pope Said to Help in Ransoming Jews."

December 4, New York Times headline: "Vatican Scores Germans: Denounces Decision to Intern and Strip All Jews in Italy."

1944 June 25, Pope sends open telegram to leader of Hungary pleading with him not to allow deportation of Jews.

July 21, the World Jewish Congress writes to the Pope "gratefully conscious" of his "aid on behalf of sorely afflicted and menaced Jews in Hungary, which have been followed by offer of the Regent to secure release of certain categories of Jews particularly children. His Holiness' efforts bring us new hope at the eleventh hour of saving from death the surviving remnants of decimated European Jewry."

[...]

August. Worried about Jewish captives in the hands of Germans in Northern Italy the Pope speaks: "For centuries they have been most unjustly treated and despised. It is time they were treated with justice and humanity. God wills it and the Church wills it. St. Paul tells us that the Jews are our brothers. Instead of being treated as strangers they should be welcomed as friends."

[...]

1946 August 3 In speaking with a delegation from the Supreme Council of the Arab People of Palestine desiring his support in their struggle with Jews, the Holy Father said: "It is superfluous for me to tell you that we disapprove of all recourse to force and violence, from wheresoever it comes, just as we condemned on various occasions in the past that fanatical anti-Semitism inflicted on the Hebrew people."

Thanks for the history lesson traeh.

I found it fascinating and enlightening.

Remember Pope John Paul II kissing a Koran on his visit to various Middle Eastern countries?

Also:

From the New York Times, March 7, 1989:

Vatican newspaper has declared that parts of ''The Satanic Verses'' could be considered blasphemous, but it denounced the death threats against the book's author, Salman Rushdie.

In comments published Sunday, the newspaper, L'Osservatore Romano, said that millions of Muslims had been offended by the Rushdie novel.

''The very attachment to our own faith induces us to deplore that which is irreverent and blasphemous in the book's contents,'' it said.

...

L'Osservatore Romano did not specifically mention the death sentence imposed on Mr. Rushdie by Ayatollah Ruhollah Khomeini, the Iranian leader, but the allusions to it were unmistakable.

[Oh great, don't mention the death fatwa, but go out of your way to mention, and decry, "blasphemy" against Islam]

Criticism of the Indian-born British author was far more explicit, dominating most of the commentary. It was not clear, however, whether the editors had read the novel.

''It is certainly fair to ask what kind of art or liberty we are dealing with when, in their name, people's most profound dimension is attacked and their sensitivity as believers is offended,'' the newspaper said.

[And, related news that same month and year:]

The United States called on Syria today to make sure that a Palestinian did not carry out his threat to kill Mr. Rushdie.

The State Department spokesman, Charles E. Redman, condemned the threat made Sunday by Ahmed Jabril, the leader of the Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine...

[And the Church wasn't the only mainstream religious entity that year weighing in with its ballast on the wrong side:]

The Chief Rabbi of Israel's Ashkenazic Jews, Avraham Shapira, wants to ban ''The Satanic Verses'' from publication in Israel because he says it offends religious sensibilities, an aide said today.

...

He said the rabbi had not read the novel...

http://www.nytimes.com/1989/03/07/world/vatican-newspaper-faults-rushdie-book.html

Gian needs to go back to what catholic's in power do best, molest children. I love reading here but the church has ALWAYS supported the murder of jews anywhere they can be murdered. After actually reading the Bible I converted to become a follower of Jesus which is quite different from what Catholicism teaches. Please read the Bible and see and then pray for Israel. It is not possible for the US to remain the top country if it does not support Israel. Read it yourself.

You repeated your lie: 'Israel has hardly had an unblemished record, and not just with its treatment of Palestinians'

There are no Palestinians, because there never has been a State of Palestine with its own unique culture and history.

Produce your historical evidence! Here's mine.


"The Arabs themselves cannot be considered but temporary residents. They pitched their tents in its grazing fields or built their places of refuge in its ruined cities. They created nothing in it. Since they were strangers to the land, they never became its masters. The desert wind that brought them hither could one day carry them away without their leaving behind them any sign of their passage through it".

- Comments concerning the Arabs in Palestine in the 1800s -

You're a lying clown!

Thank you Davegreybeard. That article was a history lesson for me, too.

I'll call you "3dood" for short. You said,

I love reading here but the church has ALWAYS supported the murder of jews anywhere they can be murdered.

I'm no Catholic, and I don't have a problem with reasonably criticizing the Church, but your statement is irresponsible and vicious slander, and no more accurate than if I were to say "3dood ALWAYS lies." If your statement about the Church were true, Jews in Europe would not have survived the Middle Ages. As further proof that your statement is slander, have a look at this comment above.

OMG!

Is someone seriously offering links to an Eric Margolis (9/11 truther and disgraced Canadian journalist) article at Lew Rockwell.com (He's Cindy Shehan's boyfriend) AND a link to Haartez (which is only read by liberals outside of Israel) as proof of something??

http://fullcomment.nationalpost.com/2010/09/14/jonathan-kay-on-the-sad-descent-into-911-conspiracism-of-former-toronto-sun-columnist-eric-margolis/

Rest assured that the regulars here have well and truly 'got the number' of this ygm character who was linking to the unsavoury margolis and equally unsavoury rockwell.

Seeing him link *that* tells us all we need to know about him.

kathyshaidle, thank you for pointing out that YGM (for short) is citing as evidence a 9/11 truther (Margolis).

Hey YGM, are you a 9/11 truther?

Yeah, he's our current troll - not to worry! He's got his head so far up his a$$ that I doubt anyone even followed the links. As soon as I saw his nic, I dismissed them.

Oh you mean, "Hitler's Pope" who had been working behind the scenes in Germany for years before Hitler came to power (there are even photos of him when he was Nuncio sitting down in conference with all the Nazi bigwigs) and his faithful Germany maid which he took back to the Vatican with him?

And the encyclical, that is the Vatican PR machine in high gear for you - smoke and mirrors propaganda but the facts speak for themselves. Propaganda coupled with Orwellian doublespeak where war means peace, you get the picture. The Sacred Congregation for Propagation of the Faith (the Propaganda) was established for this purpose in 1622. Why even that master of PR, Edward Bernays, acknowledged the debt owed to the Catholic Church who taught the world the art of propaganda (Public Relations in modern parlance) that is the art of manipulating the masses to believe that white is black and black is white and anything else no matter how implausible if repeated enough times.

All the encyclicals in the world do not change the fact that the Vatican has always been the overt and covert agitator against the Jews. From the Inquisition, pogroms and the ghettoization of the Jews in Europe and their eventual expulsion from the Catholic lands of Spain, Portugal and Sicily and providing Nazi criminals with passport so they can escape to South America through the Vatican ratlines. Or how about Catholic bishops and other high ranking Church officials hobnobbing with Nazis and Croatian Ustasi and giving the Nazi salute – and even participating in the killings and beheading of Orthodox Serbs - there are plenty of photographs of these to remove anyone’s doubt as to where the Vatican sympathies lies. Is it any wonder then that they consistently come out in favour of Islam, if not in words then in deeds?

Most people are not even aware that the Church has a big hand in spreading Islam around the world, with the Jesuits run organizations assisting Muslims to settle in the West and get access to welfare benefits etc. mainly for Somalis. It is done very openly in some places, with the illegal immigrants coming in by boats from North Africa towards Europe using satellite phones to give their positions to priests and members of the Jesuit Refugee Services who in turn phone to arrange for naval patrol boat rescues and coordinate their landings.

One believes what is dished out by the Church PR machine at one’s own peril.

Well Here I am another embarassed Catholic. Maybe the Cardinal needs a refresser course on the tight logic of Saint Thomas Aquanis. The Cardinal's logic is quite wobbly.

"One believes what is dished out by the Church PR machine at one’s own peril."

Oh the satanic brilliance of the "Church PR machine", which was able to recruit for its evil works people like Golda Meir, Chief Rabbi of Rome, Chief Rabbi of Israel, President of Israel, Albert Einstein, our own Robert Spencer (see www.jihadwatch.org/2012/11/rabbi-islamization-of-europe-a-good-thing.html)
not to mention hundreds of thousands of Jews who survived the holocaust hidden in and cared for in catholic cloisters, churches and homes all over Europe on direct orders of "Hitler's pope"

The idiot ignores the massacre of Christians across the entire Mohammedan region of influence -- and would never say a word against it.

We have entered an age of real, actual, factual Christian martyrdom, at the hands of the Saracens no less, and this twisted SOB complains about ... Jews!

He is consumed by delusions.

But it makes me wonder. I'm not a believer myself, but I would think that there's little that Satan would enjoy more than the possession of a prominent clergyman.

The Judeo-Nazi state must comply with UN resolution 242 and 338.

The Judeo-Nazi state must comply with UN resolution 242 and 338.

Hey exlax, you're making suppositories about the Judeo-Nazi State. It was Islam who befriended the Nazis when it saw a chance to murder Jews wholesale.

You're a clown!

Why yes, yes he is. Which is why he needs to be ignored. He offers nothing.

Wow, I should have waited for the bottom of the page before commenting. This Exlax schmuck is a bigger idiot than the last one.

Hey YGM, are you a 9/11 truther?

Is the Pope Catholic?

Our DNA-replicating troll blurted out:

Oh you mean, "Hitler's Pope" ...

There's a book that definitively refutes this revisionist history about Pius XII. It's called The Pius war: responses to the critics of Pius XII (2004), by J. Bottum and (it should be noted, Rabbi) David G. Dalin.

Chapter One is available for free at Google Books:

http://books.google.com/books?id=T9yWKphWAewC&lpg=PP1&dq=Rabbi%20David%20G.%20Dalin&pg=PA13#v=onepage&q=Rabbi%20David%20G.%20Dalin&f=false

Here's a taste (page 14, chapter one) of the solid evidence Rabbi Dalin brings to the table to refute that (all too commonly believed) canard:

"Curiously, nearly everyone pressing this line today -- from the ex-seminarians John Cornwell and Gary Wills -- to the ex-priest James Carroll -- is a lapsed or angry Catholic. For Jewish leaders of a previous generation, this campaign against Pius XII would have been a source of shock. During and after the war, many well-known Jews -- Albert Einstein, Golda Meir, Moshe Sharrett, Isaac Herzog, and innumerable others -- publicly expressed their gratitude to Pius. In his 1967 book Three Popes and the Jews, the diplomat Pinchas Lapide (who served as Israeli consul in Milan and interviewed Italian Holocaust survivors) declared the Church under Pius "was instrumental in saving at least 700,000, but probably as many as 860,000 Jews from certain death at Nazi hands."

By the way, the Introduction in the above-linked book has an excellent overview of the development of the revisionist myth itself over the past 40 years.

Of course, the really mind-boggling thing about all this is that the original Holy Innocents were...ALL JEWISH, children of the tribe of Benjamin.

The carindal forgets that those who hate and reject the God of Israel are *still* trying to kill Jewish children. He forgets that there is simply no comparison between the crazed despot Herod and the decent, painfully scrupulous people who govern in modern Israel; and also forgets that if one wants to look for people today who are paranoid and violent like evil King Herod, there are plenty of *those* among the jihad gang bosses of Gaza and of the 'Palestinian Authority'...

He forgets that repeatedly throughout history Arab Muslims, and other kinds of Muslims, have butchered Jewish children, as well as children of other non-Muslim faiths.

Muslims have killed and killed and killed Jews, for 1400 years. To spend all one's time wailing about how Jews, in self-defensive war, have - without intending or desiring it - killed some Arab Muslim children, is both stupid and malevolent.

Where were the Cardinal's blistering moral condemnations when local Arab Muslims - whether resident in Gaza, or in Judea and Samaria - deliberately and in ritualistic frenzy murdered pregnant Jewish women and young children (for example, heavily pregnant Tali Hatuel and her four little daughters, blasted to bits with gunfire by Muslim ghazi terror raiders; and the Fogel children, including tiny Hadass Fogel, four months old, her throat slit - and indeed, her little head nearly taken off - by a local Arab Muslim who had broken into her family's home and butchered the rest of her family, missing only one of her brothers who was in a different room and not spotted by the assassins; and Rivka Holzberger and her unborn child, butchered by Jihadists in Mumbai)?

Where was the Cardinal when the 8 year old Jewish school Miriam Monsonego and two little Jewish boys, Aryeh, aged 6, and Gabriel, aged 3, were shot by the Muslim assassin Mohammed Merah, in the schoolyard in Toulouse? Did he condemn murderous Muslim antisemitism? Did he , at *that* time, invoke the memory of the (Jewish) Holy Innocents?

For it is *those* deaths - of defenceless Jews at the hands of murderous fanatical allahu-akbaring Muslim assassins - that spring to *my* mind, when I hear the phrase 'massacre of the innocents'. (I think, too, of the Christian and secular children of Beslan; it is murderous Muslims who are massacring innocent children, in many places, today - remember the Muslim bombing of a Sunday School classroom full of children, in Nigeria, only a month or so ago?).

Sentimentally sermonising over the Arab Muslim children who were used as disposable human shields by the jihad gang bosses of Gaza, the Cardinal conveniently forgets that if the pregnant Mary of Nazareth - a Jewish woman, carrying a Jewish child - were dropped down in the midst of Gaza today, and were captured by jihadis, she and her child would most likely be torn to pieces.)

I think that it would be appropriate for Catholic jihadwatchers who identify as friends of Israel and of the Jews, to write short, sharp letters to the Cardinal; and to his boss, the Pope, pointing out and condemning the vile blood libel (which is in every way a reversal of reality) that he has slyly perpetrated. And ask for him to be sacked.

If a prominent member of any church indulges in such a disgusting public display of murder-inciting falsehood, he requires to be rebuked, and disciplined.

Correction.

The Muslims who killed Rivka Holzberger and her unborn baby were, of course, Pakistani Muslims, not Arab Muslims.

That killing, by a non-Arab Muslim thousands of miles away from Israel, makes nonsense of the idea that Muslims hate and kill Jews because of the existence of the modern Jewish state of Israel or because of anything that Israel has or has not done or is claimed (mostly falsely) to have done or not done.

Muslims hate Jews because they have always been taught to hate them, from the very beginnings of Islam. Israel is hated like poison because it is full of uppity non-dhimmi Jews who are ruling themselves instead of being ruled by Muslim lords and masters.

In the late 15th century, when Jews in North Africa (whose presence there long pre-dated the arrival of Islam) were a small, defenceless, terrorised dhimmi minority, a prominent Muslim 'cleric' called Al-Maghili taught his 'flock' that "Love of the Prophet [mohammed] requires hatred of Jews".

Just because some individual righteous members of the Catholic clergy, nuns and priests and even lay person helped save some Jews from the Nazis, this does in no way atone for or exhonorate the Vatican for hundreds of years of Jew-baiting and the thousands they helped murder. You mention some high ranking Jews who thought the Vatican was honky dory but what choice did they have at that time - Stockholme syndrome perhaps, the phenomenon where you love and support those that kill and persecute you.

And the Pius came out in favour of the Jews close to the end of the war is no surprise either, he could see which way the wind was blowing and wanted to come up smelling like roses. Vatican PR machine can ghost write all the books they want, that does not convince many people, including me, an ex Catholic. Why my father remembered when in Church they used to pray for the conversion of those 'perfidious Jews' (notice they did not pray for the conversion of the perfidious Muslims).

What a privilege to be living in such times.

The Roman Catholic "church" suppressed the study of the scriptures for over 1200 years, allowing it to be read only in the presence of clergy who would interpret it. All attempts to translate the Holy Bible were thwarted until the 1500's when they were finally translated at risk of life and limb by brave englishmen, some of who were martyred by the Roman Catholics.

I find it unsurprising that Rome is unaware of the prophetic plan of God revealed in the Holy Bible regarding the place of Israel in this time. Anti-Judaism has been rampant in the Roman "church" even back into the 2nd century. The little known writings against the Jews by "early church fathers" are becoming better known now, as are the facts regarding the Vatican's tragic record of inquisition, pogrom and their association with Hitler's holocaust.

The ignorance of the Bible's Story and of Jewish History is sadly too great.

John 4:22 Ye worship ye know not what: we know what we worship: for salvation is of the Jews.

These words of Jesus should fall on the ear of everyone who reads them and awaken them to the historic fact that God's redemptive plan for the gentiles arose from the Jewish family, from Abraham, Isaac and Jacob. Jesus was born of the virgin Mary who was of the tribe of Judah, and related to King David.

The Holy Bible was give by God to men to write down. Of it's 66 books, 64 were written by Jews. It is a Jewish story from beginning to end with very Good News also for Gentiles, that Jesus saves them also by faith.

There is no doubt in my mind that the reason so many do not see this is because satan, the god of this world and the prince and power of the air does blind them and lead them in ignorance away from the Truth.

If you are a christian, please pray with me that God would strengthen His people, and they would continue to declare the Gospel of Jesus the Messiah to the ends of the earth. And that God would soften many many hearts to receive the Name of Jesus as Savior and Lord!

“… satan, the god of this world and the prince and power of the air does blind them and lead them in ignorance away from the Truth.”

Really?

No God here on earth, just satan “the prince and power of the air”?

Well, if you belive that guess that’s why you love death more than life.

It’s a chore for sure, but I’ll oblige you if you insist.

I wonder whether it has quite occurred to certain posters above - who seem to be mightily enjoying the excuse for a good rant against the eeevil Catholics - that Mr Robert Spencer, the creator of this website, is *himself* a practising Catholic of the Greek Melkite variety?

Or that his very first book on the subject of Islam - co-authored with one Daniel Ali - was called, "Inside Islam: A Guide For Catholics?"

As for antisemitism, it is not merely Catholics that have been - alas - infected, or perhaps one might even say 'possessed', at different times and in different places, with what might be called a 'pathological condition', a sickness of the mind and of the spirit. Eastern as well as Western Christendom has given way to it.

And within western Christendom plenty of *Protestants* have - sadly - succumbed to the same mental and spiritual sickness. There are rather a lot of them afflicted with it, right at the moment, having eagerly swallowed down the nonsense and lies peddled by certain dhimmi Islamochristians from the middle east; though funnily enough, it seems to be mostly those who subscribe to a 'watered down' version of the historic faith, who seem to be most susceptible.

For those of a praying bent, who read here, I would simply say: pray, and pray hard, that the demonic stronghold of Jew-hatred may be *removed* from every place where it has established itself, be that in the minds of Catholics, or Protestants, or Orthodox, or of persons of no religion at all. '

And pray that when Muslims convert to Christianity, they may *also* lose their **Islamic** Jew-hatred..Interestingly enough, for many Muslims who do apostasise and become Christians, abandoning - repenting of, and renouncing - antisemitism and finding themselves filled with love and appreciation of the House of Israel, seems to be something that happens a lot, either just before they convert to Christ, while they are still on their way out of Islam, or else not long after their baptism.

Apostasising from Islam - even when the apostate becomes nonreligious, officially atheist or agnostic - seems to involve conscious rejection of Jew-hatred, in at least some of the cases I know of. Most notably, Ayaan Hirsi Ali.

Shomali is spot on about The Talmud and The Cardinal makes some sensible points

For the life of me I can not understand why a Catholic would become so outraged when a Prince of the Church says some sensible things about the Prison Camp that is Gaza.

America has no business intervening in the hell hole that is the M.E. and the one good thing to come out of the re-election of Obama is that Israel's power in America will diminish.

Now, there is nothing to prevent Christian Zionists from toting and firing weapons on behalf of a nation of Jesus-Deniers - have at it, Mercenaries- but for the rest of the sane in America, count us out.

Hi,

The 3 major Babylonian Cults in the world today that all have the same roots are, Talmudic Judaism, Christendom,& Islam.

It started with the tribal god YHWH, who went to Babylon on a visit & returned as the Universal God of the Babylonian Zoroasterism's God, AHURA MAZDA.
Cyrus allowed Ezra to camouflage this God as the God of Israel. Ezra REWROTE the Law of Moses, added books, corrupted the Books of the Prophets (see Jeremiah ch 7: 8:8)& left the lot for the Pharisees to collate & canonize. They added the Oral Tradition of the Elders & so Talmudic Judaism became the NEW religion in Israel.

Constantine did the same with the Sun God of Pagan Rome & the "Christians" of Rome went along with it.

600 years later, Muhammad collated Jewish, Roman & Arab MYTH & created Islam AND THE WORLD HAS SUFFERED EVER SINCE FROM THESE 3 STOOGES OF CULTS.

NO SELF RESPECTING CREATOR WOULD BE SEEN DEAD WITH ANY OF THE 3 OF THEM.

"Religion as we know it is obsolete"!

Hitchens, Dawkins or Jesus?
John 4:19-26. Jesus speaking to the Samaritan woman.
They crucified him because he said he was finished with RELIGION.
1 Corinthians 6:19-20; 2 Corinthians 6:14-18; John ch 14 to ch 17.
But there was no money in his Gospel!
There was no High Priests among his followers (Matthew 20:20-28).
He was a disaster as far as RELIGION was concerned, so they had to get rid of him.
NEVER man spoke like THIS Man!

Good god, the cranks have really come out on this thread.

For *rational* discussion of antisemitism within Christendom - I address persons new to this site and this subject - see Malcolm Hay, The Foot of Pride, and James Parkes, The Conflict of the Church and the Synagogue.

The pernicious influence of deeply-antisemitic *Islam* upon those Christian societies that it devoured and dhimmified or that it warred against but did not manage to actually overrun, is explored in Emmet Scott's 'Mohammed and Charlemagne Revisited'. Islam may have had more of an influence - all to the bad - in this department (as also in prompting the resurgence of slavery as an institution) than hitherto suspected.

If you read French, read Jacques Ellul (French Reformed Protestant, sociologist), 'Un Chretien Pour Israel' and 'Ce Dieu Injuste? Theologie Chretienne Pour Le Peuple d'Israel'. Ellul shows that it is possible to be a staunchly convinced Christian and at the same time to have no truck whatever with antisemitism. The texts do *not* require it. Nor does the theology.

The bizarre claims made by the likes of 'vermontcrank1' and 'tallandwisecentre' above, about historic Christianity, Judaism, and Islam, are waaaay off the mark.

The two Biblical faiths, Christianity and Judaism - in the commonly understood and publicly and historically practised forms of both - are recognisably close kin, to anyone who takes the trouble to look. And neither of them has anything to do with paganism, whether Babylonian, Egyptian or Roman (as anyone who *really* has read the pagan texts of the ancient world, understands very readily); they are *not* 'pagan'. Franz Rosenzweig demonstrates that sufficiently in his 'Star of Redemption'. Tom Cahill does so, also, in 'The Gifts of the Jews'. And David Bentley Hart does it magnificently and at length in 'The Beauty of the Infinite', in 'Atheist Delusions: The Christian Revolution and Its Fashionable Enemies', and also in 'The Doors of the Sea'.

The popular canard that Christianity as we know it, both eastern and western, was somehow cooked up out of whole cloth by 'Constantine', is utterly demolished both by Hart, and also by a sedate Canadian theologian, Gerald Bray, in his book 'Creeds, Councils and Christ'.

For a devastating critique of the proposition that Judaism, Christianity and Islam are fundamentally the same, see (if you read French) Jacques Ellul, 'Les trois piliers du conformisme', in 'Jacques Ellul: Islam et Judeo-Christianisme'; and also Mark Durie, 'Revelation: Do We Worship the Same God? Jesus, God, Holy Spirit in Christianity and Islam'. Durie shows that the theology, cosmology and anthropology of, on the one hand, both Jews and Christians (that is, how they think about God and the character of God and how he relates to the world and to human beings), and, on the other hand, that of Islam, are radically different and, indeed, irreconcilably opposed. YHWH is NOT, NOT, NOT in any way, shape or form like 'allah'. A bottomless and uncrossable gulf separates the character of YHWH - *as described in the Hebrew Bible and in the Christian scriptures also* - from the 'character' (if it can even be called that) of 'allah'.

Muslims claiming kin with Christians *or* with Jews are like a dangerous conman pretending to be a long-lost cousin in order to get a foot inside the door.

My respondent obviously didn't read the evidence I gave him; though if he had read it, it probably wouldn't make much difference.

You make the bizarre claim that I made a bizarre claim about historic...etc etc.

Sheesh, man.

Learn to read

Don't forget to mention Castel Gandolfo (the Papal Summer residence), which sheltered 3000 Jews. Pacelli (Pius XII) is a righteous gentile.

That's no way to talk to a lady, man. Take your own advice, and get literate.

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