Chag Chanukah sameach!

good evening my jewish friend! Happy Holidays! you should be more concerned with PC liberal jews !
they are the biggest enemy of Israel!! it is very cold here in the east coast. having a scotch and a cigar now!!!
m

Hello, epistemology. Hope you're doing well, my friend.

Long live the Jewish people and long live Israel, the only light in the Middle East, sadly surrounded by so much darkness, courtesy of that malevolent, dysfunctional religion which is intolerant, violence-prone, repressive, desultory and which loves death---a sicko cult if ever there were one.

Between Judaism and Islam there exists a chasm of immense proportions. Kudos to the former. To Hell with the latter.

Tiger,
You are correct. I consider myself very lucky to work in high-tech with so many Chinese and Indian co-workers. No antisemitism, and respectful ways.

@Indian Tiger,

Nice to see you wish our jewish friends on behalf of all enlightened indians.[though i dont know anything about chag chanukah,my wishes too!]

RS or Kepha could've given a brif account.

The synagogue you visited must have been the one looked after by a 75+ yrs old woman and her spinster daughter, i think.

It is a pleasant surprise to know that 5000 jews still prefer to live in India,because PC media reported that barring a dozen or two most jews migrated to Israel.This does not include the Ben Menashe tribe discovered in Mizoram ,whose repatriation to Israel was stopped by the local church authority.

the link below gives an account of jewish life in India

http://epaper.timesofindia.com/Default/Scripting/ArticleWin.asp?From=Archive&Source=Page&Skin=TOINEW&BaseHref=TOICH/2012/12/09&PageLabel=13&EntityId=Ar01302&ViewMode=HTML

miriam rove,

You wrote:

"you should be more concerned with PC liberal jews ! they are the biggest enemy of Israel!!"

Yeah, I know. I am most concerned with them. Although I don't call them "PC liberal jews". I call them Jewish people who are experiencing a deep complex form of Stockholm Syndrome. And almost all Jewish people are experiencing that deep complex form of Stockholm syndrome to some degree (including, most detrimentally, the leaders of the government of Israel). And it's the Jewish people who are experiencing that deep complex form of Stockholm syndrome to severe degrees (Jewish propagators of libels against Israel) who are the worst enemies of the Jewish people.

And almost all Jewish people have experienced this deep complex form of Stockholm syndrome to various degrees for at least the past two thousand years. And Jewish people who have experienced this deep complex form of Stockholm syndrome to severe degrees and who have sided with bigoted intendedly genocidal attackers against the Jewish people and who have propagated libels against the libeled violently attacked collective of the Jewish people of the time have always been the worst enemies of the Jewish people. (And those deranged immoral anti-Jewish Jewish people have always been thought of as "The Good Jews" by the bigoted anti-Jewish non-Jewish people of the time, and have always been held up as weapons and shields by the bigoted intendedly genocidal attackers against the Jewish people.)

And Jewish people, in general, have been detrimental to themselves and to their own people by having the Stockholm syndrome that they have had to various degrees.

The Psychology of Populations under Chronic Siege, by Kenneth Levin

"The phenomenon of Diaspora Jews embracing as truth the indictments of Jew-haters has been so commonplace that a literature on the subject emerged under the rubric ‘Jewish self-hatred.’ A similar predilection evolved in Israel, particularly among the nation's cultural elites, in the context of the Arab siege.

"Segments of populations under chronic siege commonly embrace the indictments of the besiegers, however bigoted and outrageous. They hope that by doing so and reforming accordingly they can assuage the hostility of their tormenters and win relief. This has been an element of the Jewish response to anti-Semitism throughout the history of the Diaspora.

"The paradigm on the level of individual psychology is the psychodynamics of abused children, who almost invariably blame themselves for their predicament, ascribe it to their being ‘bad,’ and nurture fantasies that by becoming ‘good’ they can mollify their abusers and end their torment."

"The rhetoric of the Israeli Peace Movement, its distortions of Arab aims and actions, and its indictments of Israel likewise reflected the psychological impact of chronic besiegement. The Oslo process that the Peace Movement spawned entailed policies grounded in wishful thinking and self-delusion analogous to that of abused children. ..."

http://jcpa.org/phas/phas-046-levin.htm

Explaining Jewish Political Behavior, by Barry Rubin
http://rubinreports.blogspot.com/2010/08/explaining-jewish-political-behavior.html

The Paradox of the Jewish Mind, by David Solway
http://pjmedia.com/blog/the-paradox-of-the-jewish-mind/?singlepage=true

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I feel the most comfort, and relief, from Middle Eastern non-Jewish people who support the Jewish people -- people such as you. Such Middle Eastern non-Jewish people are, unlike, most Jewish people, not insane (that is: they are not deranged by Stockholm syndrome, and, therein, they think clearly), and, unlike most Western (culturally Christian-European -- Christian and post-Christian) people, don't have Western (culturally Christian-European) anti-Jewish bigotry. Such Middle Eastern people are decent and intelligent and have a cultural background, and way of thinking, that I feel affinity with -- a cultural background, and way of thinking, that I also have -- even though I'm ethically Jewish-European -- my people have been living in -- and continuously libeled in, and continuously hated in, and continuously mass-murdered in, and continuously treated with contempt and intransigence in, Christian European and culturally Christian-European societies, for hundreds of years. Now "the West" -- the culturally Christian European world -- and, with it, the world (of which the culturally Christian European world is, and has been for centuries, the most influential polity) -- is engaging in a process of committing genocide against the Jewish people again -- this time more "sophisticatedly" than it has done before, and, as part of that, this time more by proxy than it has done before.

An excellent discourse on Western anti-Jewish bigotry:

Western Culture, the Holocaust, and the Persistence of Antisemitism, Introduction YIISA Seminar, Yale University, 5 March 2009 Dr. Catherine Chatterley University of Winnipeg (Canada), Department of History

Video of the Talk (Streaming Video (RealMedia)): http://streaming.yale.edu:8080/ramgen/cmibroadcast/yiisa/chatterley_030509.rm
Direct Link to streaming video file: rtsp://128.36.236.13:554/cmibroadcast/yiisa/chatterley_030509.rm?cloakport=8080,554

Discussion Draft of the talk: http://web.archive.org/web/20090422150719/http://www.yale.edu/yiisa/chatterleypaper3509.pdf

YIISA (Yale Initiative for the Interdisciplinary Study of Antisemitism) was founded in 2006 and was was shut down in 2011. It was shut down in accordance with, and as part of, the anti-Jewish bigotry that is discussed in this talk by Catherine Chatterley.

Antisemitism in America - Yale Kills YIISA, by Clemens Heni
http://clemensheni.wordpress.com/2011/06/08/yale-kills-yiisa/

Another overview of the current situation:

The modern "Protocols of Zion" - How the mass media now promotes the same lies that caused the death of more than 5 million Jews in WWII, by Francisco Gil-White

Part 1 - Introduction: The "Protocols of Zion" in the broadest historical perspective.

http://www.hirhome.com/israel/mprot1.htm

----

Thank you for your support.

And thank you Robert Spencer, and thank you to everyone here who is supporting the intendedly genocidally besieged, universally libeled, liberal democratic, very small sole nation of the Jewish people.

And, as I've tried to communicate before: it's not the Islamic Jihad that's the main problem. It's the Western collusion with the Islamic Jihad that's the main problem. And the Western collusion with the Islamic Jihad is caused by Western anti-Jewish bigotry and by Jewish Stockholm Syndrome.

And, as I've tried to communicate before: it's not the Islamic Jihad that's the main problem. It's the Western collusion with the Islamic Jihad that's the main problem.

Islamic jihad came first...If not for Islamic jihad there would be no Islamic jihad to collude with...If the west stopped all the collusion, Islamic jihad would not disappear...but certainly the collusion is a contributing factor...

Read the NOTE under 'leave a comment'.

"...comments that are off topic, offensive, slanderous, or otherwise annoying stand a chance of being deleted."

Believe you me, todnuts (who has posted - or, rather, deposited droppings, or sprayed graffiti - in a number of other threads) came across as a common-or-garden antisemite of the crudest kind. His postings were *exactly* the kind of thing that gets removed when noticed.

At this virtual Hanukkah party he slouched in and - grinning - made the most crudely antisemitic remark he could think of.

He was promptly seized by the virtual bouncers and marched off the virtual premises.

there's free speech; and there's doing the equivalent of walking into a party and spraying vulgar graffiti on the walls.

Certain types of posts are deleted because if they are left standing, the enemies of freedom accuse Robert of supporting those ideas, in spite of the disclaimer...It is up to Robert to delete offensive material or not...but as it should be, 'when in doubt, delete'...All in all, Robert is more tolerant than Marisol was, but there is still a line you must not cross...if you do that your posts will be gone and so might you...

Dear Miriam, thanks a lot for your kind wishes. But I've got to tell you the situation is a lot more complicated than that. Unfortunately there are some Islamophile Jews, I don't think liberal is the right term, because in spite of everything I still consider myself a liberal.

I give you an example. Last month I went to a reception in Munich, it was the 30th anniversary of the Jewish bookshop which is an institution, as they don't only sell books but organise book presentations. Christian Ude, the mayor of Munich gave the honorific speech. He isn't a Jew but he's got lots of Jewish friends and he did a lot for our great Jewish service centre right in the centre of Munich. It includes a synagogue, a museum, a kosher restaurant, community facilities and the book store. The Jewish centre isn't far from the Frauenkirche, Munich's cathedral. But Ude has other plans as well. He wants the ZIE-M = Islamic European Centre - Munich to be built right in the centre as well. He dreams of a harmonious triangle with the houses of God of the three monotheistic religions a synagogue, a church and a mosque at the vertices right in the centre of Bavaria's capital. All motherhood and apple pie.

It isn't hard to imagine that the ZIE-M wouldn't be a house of worship but a centre of Islamic indoctrination. I don't have to elaborate on that at JW. All attentive JW readers know that. But lots of people in Europe are uninformed about Islam including Jews. So there are Jews supporting the building of the Islamic centre.

Hope you enjoy your whisky anyway. If it gets too cold have a hot whisky with a slice of lemon laced with cloves like the Irish do. It's very cold over here as well. Cheers and lechaim.

Same to you my friend, thanks a lot for your kind words. I assume you read what I told Miriam in response to his idea about "liberal Jews". So you're in the picture.

Couldn't agree more, Islam should go to hell. But that isn't the general view in Europe. You probably know Robert's book "Stealth Jihad" that's their new way of conquering, but don't worry they haven't abandoned their old violent ways, either. But I'm not telling you anything new here. The only problem is, Europe is much worse than America. You've only got 1% of Muslim population in the States, but in the big European countries Britain, France and Germany we've got at least 5%, a crucial number. With 6 million Mohammedans France has got the largest population. There are smaller countries like the Czech republic for instance that are doing better. Didn't see any headscarf when I was there. Unfortunately I can't give you an account of the whole of Europe. The Balkans is pretty bad, worse than the Western countries, the Ottomans devastated the countries and their economies.

Hope you're doing fine and it isn't too cold where you are. Have a beer, cheers and lechaim.

Option61c,

Keep in mind that Spencer didn't wrap duct tape around todnuts mouth and lock him in the Jihad Watch basement; Spencer just made todnuts go elsewhere to speak his mind. If someone visits my home, and starts speaking obnoxiously, and I kick them out, that doesn't mean I'm against governments protecting free speech. There are numerous other places besides my house where people can express whatever views they please. Todnuts can go visit the neo-Nazi and Islamic websites that might be interested in his "thoughts." Jihad Watch is not a government. It's Spencer's own venue.

In fact, consider this: If individuals could not control the content of their own publications -- and Jihad Watch, including the mostly unmoderated comments section, is effectively Spencer's own publication -- that would be abridging free speech.

Option61c wrote:

Has JW started to censor posts? I can't see the post from the infamous todnuts.
.........................

Option, recall that Jihad Watch is not a state—it is more like Robert Spencer's virtual living room.

He allows an incredibly diverse and sometimes contentious crowd to use the comments section to have their say.

It only rarely that a particularly nasty comment is removed, and even rarer for a poster to be banned.

Moreover, a number of banned posters have been allowed to return over the years.

By the way, two of "todnuts'" other nasty posts have been allowed to stand, Here:

http://www.jihadwatch.org/2012/12/islamic-honor-killing-in-india-muslim-beheads-his-sister-for-affair.html#comment-921367

And here:

http://www.jihadwatch.org/2012/12/hamas-top-dog-palestine-is-ours-from-the-river-to-the-sea-and-from-the-south-to-the-north-there-will.html#comment-921368

I didn't have the chance to read what he wrote here on this thread—but my guess is it must have been pretty ugly to have gotten removed.

Lookman:

I gather you're a Hindu, Jain, or adherent of some other religion that might not know much about the Bible, so I'll try to address your question.

Here's what I get about the origins of Chanukah--although I'm just a Christian well-wisher (albeit of Jewish descent) rather than an observer. The origins of Chanukah are found in the books of the Maccabees.

The books of the Maccabees are part of the Apocrypha, a collection of books written mostly in the period after Alexander the Great conquered the Middle East. They are not included in Jewish Bibles or Protestant ones, since they are not part of the Hebrew canon. However, Roman Catholics and Eastern Orthodox see them as Scripture, while Protestant Bibles sometimes print them as a kind of appendix between the Old and New Testaments.

The story is that after the death of Alexander the Great (ca. 330 B.C.), his empire was divided between his generals Ptolemy and Seleucus. Originally, the Ptolemies got Egypt, Cyprus, and 'Eretz Yisroel, but lost the last to the Seleucids. A Seleucid ruler named Antiochus Epimanes (Antiochus the Mad) declared himself God, forced the Jews to sacrifice swine (unclean animals) to him and various gods of the Greek Pantheon, and forbade them to circumcise their sons.

A priest named Judah the Maccabee (Grecianized to Judas Maccabaeus) arose, resisted Antiochus, and raised a revolt among the Jews. They succeeded in recapturing Jerusalem, cleansed the Temple (rebuilt since the return from Babylon a little before 700 B.C.), and in the dediccation ceremony, the oil burned in the great menorah (seven-branched candlestick) lasted for eight days without replenishment. Hence, Chanukah is associated with lighting a small menorah in the home and is sometimes called the Festival of Lights.

The events described in the books of the Maccabees (including the institution of Chanukah) mark a re-assertion of Jewish independence, following a period when Judaea was successively a difficult client state of Assyria, then province of Babylonia, Medo-Persia, Alexander's Empire, the Ptolemaic Empire, and the Seleucid Empire.

The time of the Maccabees is roughly the second century B.C. Descendants of Judah the Maccabee ruled the land of Judaea down to shortly before the coming of Jesus Christ, when an Idumaean by the name of Herod took over.

BTW, while fighting the Syrian-based Seleucid Empire, the Maccabees entered into an alliance with Rome.

Interestingly enough, Many orthodox Jews I've met do not make much of Chanukah, since it isn't enjoined in the Hebrew Bible (Torah, Prophets, and Hagiographa). However, the observance to Chanukah had become widespread enough among the Jews that by the late 20's A.D., Jesus of Nazareth observed the holiday with his disciples at Jerusalem (cf. John 10). Always keep in mind that Christianity began with the cocnfession that in Jesus the long-promised Messiah (Christos in Greek) had come to the Jews, so the two religions are related.

There you've heard it from a Christian who's interested in history. Maybe one or more of the Jewish posters here could weigh in on how Jews observe it, and what it may mean to modern Jews. On that score, I could only be an outsider describing practices of neighbors and relatives.

If anti-Jewish Jewish people with Stockholm Syndrome were our only, or main, problem, the situation wouldn't be as dire as it is.

However, there also exist large numbers of anti-Christian Christians with Stockholm Syndrome, anti-European Europeans with Stockholm Syndrome, anti-American Americans with Stockholm Syndrome, and anti-Hindu Hindus with Stockholm Syndrome. (I'm sure I left out some more groups.)

While the Jewish variety of this may have different flavorings that make it singular, I think on a certain level at least it partakes of what must be a more general civilizational phenomenon. (And, as I've maintained before, this phenomenon, although obviously detrimental, does not spring wholly -- or even mainly -- from any source that is malevolent or diseased per se; it is rather a paradoxical process of taking good things too far: a transformation of Graeco-Roman / Judaeo-Christian virtues into irrationally excessive versions of same.)

@Kepha,

Thanks a lot for your reply.
As for as History is concerned,you hold the Torch [here,in JW at least].As a fellow History buff, i would like to hear more from you on various things we may come across here.

BTW,i belong to Hinduism.

Lookman wrote:

Nice to see you wish our jewish friends on behalf of all enlightened indians.[though i dont know anything about chag chanukah,my wishes too!]
..........................

Like Kepha, I come from a Christian background, but I'll take a stab at mentioning some of the main themes of Hannakah, which include standing up against tyranny, faith that God will provide, and the strong image of light in the darkness.

These all seem like apt themes for our standing against Jihad.

Where the Jews only had enough oil to light the Temple lamps for one night, and they burned for eight days.

This is commemorated with the lighting of the Menora candles over eight nights.

Like Diwali, Hannakah is also know as the "Festival of Lights".

Traeh wrote, replying to Option61c:

In fact, consider this: If individuals could not control the content of their own publications -- and Jihad Watch, including the mostly unmoderated comments section, is effectively Spencer's own publication -- that would be abridging free speech.
.............................

*Excellent point*, Traeh.