Debate on Islam and evolution has to be called off after "torrent of opposition from Muslim students"

Intimidation and thuggery shut down academic inquiry. The issues involved here go far beyond this incident, and beyond the evolution debate as well. The core question here is whether issues that Muslims, particularly Muslim rigorists, don't want examined and questions they do not wish to discuss can be examined anyway, or whether free inquiry must be extinguished in the face of their disapproval.

"Debate on Islam and evolution has to be called off after revolt by student societies," by Jerome Taylor in the Independent, December 14:

Organisers behind a British conference on Islam and evolution say they nearly had to cancel the event after receiving a torrent of opposition from Muslim students at one of the country’s top scientific universities, The Independent has leanred.

The Deen Institute, a Muslim debating forum which promotes critical thinking, had hoped to hold a conference entitled “Have Muslims misunderstood evolution?” early next year. Among the speakers invited to attend included Muslim scientists, imams who have promoted the compatibility of Islam and evolution as well as those who preach a form of Islamic creationism.

The initial plan was to hold the event next month at Imperial College London, one of the country’s foremost universities for scientific exploration and debate, in cooperation with the local Islamic student society. But the Deen Institute said it was forced to pull out when it became clear that opposition to the event from supporters of creationism began mounting. It is now being held without input from any Muslim student society at Logan Hall, a conference centre owned by the University of London.

“We eventually had to give up of getting any support from student societies because it was seen as simply too controversial,” Adam Deen, co-founder of the institute, told The Independent. Deen, who describes himself as a “conservative Muslim” who encourages critical thinking, said he was surprised to receive such opposition at a place of scientific study, particularly as he had made sure to invite all sides of the debate including those who preach creationism.

“It’s symptomatic of a bigger problem in the Muslim world where people representing practical Muslims have to be seen to be more literalist,” he said. “It’s almost like there’s an intellectual mafia movement who won’t allow any freedom of thought.”...

Almost!

However it is clear that opposition to the event has been increasing ever since the Deen Institute began publicising it. One source involved with preparations said: “As soon as it went live I was inundated with complaints. It’s sad because student societies should be desperate to host this kind of debate.”

Mr Deen’s public Facebook account illustrates many of the concerns people raised. In one comment Mohammad Ali Harrath, the founder of the highly influential Islam Channel, wrote: “This debate is a big mistake. It is shifting debate to make it a Muslim issue rather than an issue between atheists and creationists.”

Another commenter, Zeshan Sasjid, added: “Evolution is not Islamic. Prophet Adam did not have parents. A Muslim can’t believe that Prophet Adam.”

However others criticised their fellow believers for being overly literalist and shunning scientific research.

“If our faith is strong we can only gain from looking at, hearing and understanding difference,” wrote Amina Crashaw. “If this were not truth I would not be Muslim. Understanding difference include being open to finding something new to learn from the Qur’an. Not new facts but new depth.”

The row is informative because it illustrates some of the controversies currently occupying the Muslim world about the compatibility of science and whether critical thinking is being closed down by more literalist schools of thought.

Muslims believe the Qur’an is the indisputable word of God and therefore any scientific discovery which risks proving something within their holy book as incorrect is highly controversial, particularly among the more literalist schools of thought. For example, most Muslim scholars have long accepted scientifically proven cosmology but even up until his death in 1999, Sheikh Ibn Baaz, the Grand Mufti of Saudi Arabia, continued to insist that the Sun revolved around the Earth based on his interpretation of Islamic texts.

Until recently evolution caused little friction with the majority of Muslim jurists and academics broadly accepting Darwin’s findings – albeit in a theistic sense. But in recent years creationism – much of it inspired by similar Christian right movements in the United States – has begun to receive wider acceptance.

Much of this newfound enthusiasm for attacking evolution has been pushed by Harun Yahya, a prominent Turkish theologian whose writings have been seized upon by literalists and those who exhibit a theological suspicion of science. Dr Oktar Babuna, a representative from the Harun Yahya movement, is scheduled to speak at the conference alongside Shaikh Yasir Qadhi, an influential imam who accepts evolution at a micro level but refuses to countenance the idea that man evolved from anything other than Adam himself.

Two Muslim scientists, American biologists Ehab Abouheif and Fatimah Jackson, will also speak alongside Usama Hasan, a British imam who preaches the commonly held scientific view that man is descended from ape-like forebears.

Hasan’s inclusion is particularly controversial because he enraged Muslim literalists in his own mosque in Leyton, east London, when he began preaching about evolution and criticised literalists for having a “children's madrasa-level understanding” of science compared to their Islamic forebears who once used to lead the world in such fields. The arguments eventually became so intense he was eventually forced out by hardliners....

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The question isn't whether Muslims understand evolution but whether they participated in it.

The answer is obvious.

Is it human nature to collectively punish people for the wrongs committed by the few ?

Example : Today's tragic shooting deaths of 20 children in Connecticut due to the gunman's anger against his mother

Example : the burning alive of tens of thousands of children when Truman exploded an atom bomb above a church in Nagasaki vaporizing the nuns inside that church

collectively punishing the civilians in Hiroshima and Nagasaki

due to the wrongs done by the Japanese government

Example: the shootings of hundreds of children in Norway due to the gunman's anger towards Norwegian politicians and their liberal immigration policies


Example : blaming all muslims for the wrongs done by a very tiny minority of muslims

So is it human nature to collectively punish people for the wrongs committed by the few ?

@me.yahoo etc.
Of course it's human nature, but some societies place value on the ability to resist such urges.

What happens if one "person of the book" breaks the pact of Umar? The whole community suffers.

What happens if one person produces a film about Mahomet?

Anything said about the Connecticut school shooting is at this stage premature and speculative.

The atom bombs dropped on Japan? It saved millions of lives by stopping the war. Japan had already lost and its people were starving but was determined to fight on to the last. A hard decision to make but the right one.

Breivik? It wasn't collective punishment - he just wanted a high body count as a "spectacular" to provide a way to let people know his demented world view.

It may be a minority of muslims who actually decide on jihad, but the act is extolled so much in muslim society and in Islam that the majority of muslims dream of riding a horse into battle waving a sword, and by paying zakat they can get a vicarious thrill from the terrorism of the jihadis.

Don't feed the trolls.

WTF is the "Deen Institute?"

First point of their mission statement:

To help the wider public understand the Islamic tradition in light of contemporary ideas and beliefs.

That means dawa, calling people to Islam.

Point 2: " to share this wisdom "

3: "mutual respect and civility"-- only muslims have 'respect & civility'.

4: To release research publications focused on the Islamic perspective ...

5: to revive intellectuality within the Muslim community...

Point 5 will be the hardest to achieve when you have more than 70 % illiterate headbangers.

The 'Deen institute' is nothing but a dawa shop.

"The Deen Institute, a Muslim debating forum which promotes critical thinking..."

Right after the Flat Earth Society holds its conference, and some time before the Alcoholics Anonymous Martini Happy Hour.

You wrote: '...blaming all muslims for the wrongs done by a very tiny minority of muslims'

This is a fake, old accusation. No one at JW blames 'all Muslims' for anything. JW is very careful to emphasize the fact that the violent ideology of Islam is the root of the problem for the civilized world.

In fact, 'all Muslims' are shackled by Sharia and deserve to be freed.

Furthermore, why is it that Islam punishes everyone who is not a Muslim by referring to them as 'the vilest of creatures'? Why is it that Islam calls for the genocide of Jews? That's collective, too.

You're a clown!


There is more to this than what meets the eye

To learn more take a look at this rotten fish

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adnan_Oktar

Adnan Oktar (born 1956), also known as Harun Yahya, This guy first came to my notice with his book, Yahudilik ve Masonluk (Judaism and Freemasonry) which contains several very gory images from the Algerian war of Independence, with which he blames Israel for the massacres.

Much of this newfound enthusiasm for attacking evolution has been pushed by Harun Yahya, a prominent Turkish theologian whose writings have been seized upon by literalists and those who exhibit a theological suspicion of science. Dr Oktar Babuna, a representative from the Harun Yahya movement

Now, Here is a link of several pages from the book I mentioned in my last post, It is in Turkish, but many of the images have nothing to do with the jews but are images of Pied Niors murdered by islamist during the Algerian War.

http://maddeninardindakisir.com/tr/books/1024/YAHUDILIK-VE-MASONLUK/chapter/224/Siyonizme-karsi-cikan-dindar-Yahudiler

This is 11 different kinds of hilarious to me, because previously in Britain, the anti-creationism crowd has been rather aggressive towards those espousing Creationism and Intelligent Design. I think they've met their match, but not on intellectual grounds. On "too scared ****less to press the case for Evolution" grounds!

"Deserve" has a specific meaning, to be entitled to by merit. It is not just something which we think everyone might enjoy.
One "deserves" success if one works hard.
Muslims who follow Islam "deserve" what?
Maybe just Islam.

I AM that I AM is the eternal pool of manifestation...It is 'pure existence', where everything is possible, but nothing is happening...When something happens something is manifested, pure existence has become something...The question is, what 'caused' the first happening. The easy answer is 'God' did it, or the 'big bang'...The real answer is 'pressure' did it...
Dion Fortune quotes in one of her books a Magickal adept who said, 'God is pressure'...
Since nothing happens without it, he might have a point...but it is a mistake to worship it...

From post above...Example : blaming all muslims for the wrongs done by a very tiny minority of muslims...

Poor little victim...Exactly how many is a very tiny minority? And how is it possible for any pious Mahoundian to do anything wrong, when they are following Allah's directions? Do you have a problem with following Allah's directions? Maybe more inner spiritual struggle jihad will help you...

Yeah, that anti-creationist gang are just terrible to those Cretinist and Indigent Design folks. Disagreement with someone else's beliefs is soooo aggressive.

Well, we won't hear a peep from those folks that celebrate the Scopes Monkey Trial to this day.

What is most notable here for me, was that the event was NOT shut down by a bunch of Koran thumping old fogeys from outside of the schooll, but rather by the young students themselves.

This does not augur well.

Bring a young wolf into your house and eventually he will go for your throat.

deen doesn't get it..islam is about world domination...destroying things...not about scientific thought or God forbid facts. TINY minority????we now know that's not true...hamas (the terroist islamist jihadist savages) were voted in by a majority just like them...destroyers...jew haters...murderers...murderers from the begining. morsi (the muslim jihadist terrorist head of terrorist murdering muslim brotherhood) voted in by a majority....so majority of muslims in palestine and in egypt are radical...murdering terrorist....so no tiny minority on this planet...where i live and obviously "duh swami" doesn't.

True critical thinking and Islam are as incompatible as are liberty and Islam.

Every time Muslims attend a debate or forum or speech about Islam they get aggressively hostile and angrily vocal....must be something about Islam that they don't want to reach Infidel ears...

A true god, if ever there was one, would not demand worship. . .only understanding and appreciation of the gift of life.

Tom, so you are willing to sacrifice the lives of innocent children in order to save others ? does that make sense ?

Maybe Tom frogot to leave a sarc/off tag at the end of his obviously saki comment ? Ne-ce-pas ?

Lemonlime

that particular yahooletterstring - let's call it JUuVA for short - is the obnoxious bandersnatch and Mohammedan dementor in a mask, 'peter', long previously known as 'loveverybody'.

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