Video: Jamie Glazov on the Left’s romance with tyranny and terror

Hi, from a fellow atheist!

We have no choice. Islam commands our death simply for being atheists. I find it helps to think of myself as a lapsed-atheist from time to time :)

"The sidelines of a game of holy war, which is what this is rapidly degenerating into (as opposed to defense of reason vs. fanaticism and human rights vs. theocracy) is a dangerous place for those considered suspect by both teams."

This is a secularist's dilemma, that we are not believed to fight for anything, since we do not fall into any 'religious' camp. But fighting for the right to believe as we choose, whether spiritualism, existentialism, or even fatalism or 'nothing' atheism, is still our natural right as human beings. One does not have to be burdened with a religious ideology, or mythology (who believes in Isis or Aten nowadays, yet wars were fought over these), to have their right to believe as their human right. This is in the end, as you say, a war between "human rights vs theocracy". Count me in too.

Thanks for that. Sometimes, it does become terribly difficult to hold back a response to the gibes that are directed at us--here and elsewhere.

We're on the same side, folks. Islam is the threat to each and every one of us, not atheism.

PGuud

Islam: where freedom ends and slavery begins.

An oasis of ignorance in a sea of intelligent comment. How much of a Muslim can Obama be when a significant % of those in the center and left of the political spectrum condemn him for giving uncritical continuing support to Israel.
p.s. F*ck the Judeo-Christian fabric of this country. Of all serious problems facing the US today that you really believe the legality of the right to choose is the most damaging/ serious demonstrates how warped god freaks view of reality can be.
p.p.s. Roe v Wade was decided in 1973 during the Nixon /Ford admin. Law and order champion, Spiro Angew, having been forced to resign as VP for criminal conduct (graft) committed when he was governor of MD. The chief justice was Rheinquist appointed by leftist Nixon. It was a 7-2 decision and viewed by most intelligent people (you know, with an IQ over 100)
as long overdue.
nly a real zombie Jesus or Moses freak would have such a distorted view of what is important.

Seconded! One day America will grow up and admit the fallacy of religion, as is happening all over the educated Christian world. Judeo-Christian values? Hogwash, they have perpetrated enough blood & suffering all on their own and continue to do so.

However, Islam trumps all others and must be stopped, by whatever means necessary.The sooner the REAL war on terror (ie Islam) starts, the better.
I cannot see how 320 million gun-owning Americans will tolerate much more of this, in spite of the President's lying rhetoric... one day they will take matters into their own hands and woe betide the Islamists then.

Wrong.

Abortion and it's lovely cousin hymen repair (virgin surgery) are not only legal, but often used in at least one mohammadan country: Turkey.

I worked with a mohammadan who practically bragged about taking 4 vagina virgins to the abortion clinic during the three year period I worked with him.

I'm assuming those four lovely examples of muslimahness were too quessy for the "I-have-anal-sex-therefore-I'm-still-a-virgin-and-better-than-you" mohammadan logic I've heard many times from bagheads. They opted for the "I've had an abortion but had a doctor sew my cherry back in therefore I'm still a virgin and better than you" mohammadan logic.

A few years back the WHO, if memory serves, released the results of studies done on the types and frequencies of medical procedures done on women in the Gulf states (mohammadan lands). Not surprisingly the number one surgery performed on those lovely examples of femininity: Hymen repair. The second most frequent medical procedure requested by allah's gang molls (hat tip to DDA) is abortion.

While abortion may be technically illegal in some of allah's lands it is frequently used.

Much like how mohammadan's claim islam is a religion of peace and (mis)-quote surah 5 ayat 32 to assert that lie. That ayat does nothing to stop them from destroying life at every opportunity.

If they call it something other than abortion, using mohammadan logic, it's not abortion.

The fact that you are "Not Interested" is one of the only things I've ever heard you say, or read, that has given me pause. Honestly, I'd have thought you would be.

As an atheist, I find more than enough that is inhumane and offensive to my morality in islam to readily justify my acting, in my limited capacity, in defense of our basic secular freedoms. The issue is nothing like a football game, where an our team is better than your team rational is sufficient motivation. I see plenty of problems with the behavior and aims of fundamentalist christian politicians in this country; but even though I'm anti-theist across the board, I don't in any way equate the dangers of Islam with those of our Judeo-Christian heritage.

Perhaps it's just that I've spent too many hours these past few weeks trying to wade through some of the most infantile invective that has ever been directed at me while confronting a suicidaly naive view of the proper way to criticize islam, but also to defend you from a fellow atheist who dismissed you, and Ayan Hirsi Ali, as bigots. Somehow, I'd hope that any ration person of conscience, even if they're motivated by faith, would be interested in the purely moral and humane reasons for standing against something I perceive to be the greatest current threat to civilization... right after the complete failure of our educational systems.

For me, he common but astounding lack of forethought displayed by Mr. Stakelbeck at 12:00 in no way obviates the fact that I am in this without regard to any other sanction to stand up for humanity.

I very much appreciate the efforts you put into creating this watch letter, Robert. Whenever I have a moment free, ti's usually the first I look for in my inbox. Keep up the good work, and know that it is useful even to we godless infidels, and not just you other people of the book.

Coffey3C

The fact that you are "Not Interested" is one of the only things I've ever heard you say, or read, that has given me pause. Honestly, I'd have thought you would be.

As an atheist, I find more than enough that is inhumane and offensive to my morality in islam to readily justify my acting, in my limited capacity, in defense of our basic secular freedoms. The issue is nothing like a football game, where an our team is better than your team rational is sufficient motivation. I see plenty of problems with the behavior and aims of fundamentalist christian politicians in this country; but even though I'm anti-theist across the board, I don't in any way equate the dangers of Islam with those of our Judeo-Christian heritage.

Perhaps it's just that I've spent too many hours these past few weeks trying to wade through some of the most infantile invective that has ever been directed at me while confronting a suicidaly naive view of the proper way to criticize islam, but also to defend you from a fellow atheist who dismissed you, and Ayan Hirsi Ali, as bigots. Somehow, I'd hope that any ration person of conscience, even if they're motivated by faith, would be interested in the purely moral and humane reasons for standing against something I perceive to be the greatest current threat to civilization... right after the complete failure of our educational systems.

For me, he common but astounding lack of forethought displayed by Mr. Stakelbeck at 12:00 in no way obviates the fact that I am in this without regard to any other sanction to stand up for humanity.

I very much appreciate the efforts you put into creating this watch letter, Robert. Whenever I have a moment free, ti's usually the first I look for in my inbox. Keep up the good work, and know that it is useful even to we godless infidels, and not just you other people of the book.

Coffey3C

Pro-choice atheist here--although decidedly not "pro-abortion."

I agree with your sentiment about Robert and the AFDI--heroes, indeed.

Take care. :)

PGuud

Islam: where freedom ends and slavery begins.

@ lilredbird

I'll stand with anyone who is speaking out against jihad and sharia. (Unless, of course, they are advocating for murder, genocide, that sort of thing. It's sad that this needs to be clarified, but I suppose it is wise to do so.)

But when it comes to atheists, they want respect while giving religious people none, as you have demonstrated here.

Christianity does not teach anything akin to a "giant invisible ghost in the sky controlling our lives". If you had bothered to investigate anything about Christianity, you'd know that.
You have zero interest in knowing what Christians believe, and on what basis. It's not the place to go the evidences for Christianity here, but if it were, you would be just as nasty and dismissive, without bothering to even examine it yourself.

And don't think I did not notice your deliberate choice to not capitalize the phrase Judeo-Christian heritage. (As well as putting it in quotes to pretend America and the West have no such heritage.) Don't play it off like it was an error.

You demand respect, but give Christians none.

@ Leisa -

Exactly right.

I've had run-ins with lilredbird before. He/she behaves exactly the same way every time.

It seems for some atheists, it's impossible to keep a lid on their virulent hatred of anything to do with Christianity.

Sorry, Mo. Did you feel that my response to Robert was disrespectful?

I really don't want to drag this Issue too far off topic, into a "who killed who" (python's holy grail) sort of thing, even though given the statements of the video host, I feel that to contrast the Motivations and views between Christians and Atheists are eminently germane. I hope that we can agree that the critics of Islam who may most easily garner attention, are all too often the extremists amongst our own more colloquial J-C clergy.

I'd also like to point out, that you need to be very careful about assuming atheists know little of religion. In my experience, and because we are very often attacked on the basis of that religion, theists often see Atheists as angry because we too often know a great deal more about Christianity than the Christians attacking us do. In fact, in most instances, the logic and reason that to my mind always trump faith, are usually of no value in the conversation.

I think my point on this issue is, that the false respect that we grant religious belief may be the largest impediment to actually being able to confront this issue. It's considered wrong to call any but the most venial money grubbing minister a huckster, or to even question their theology, because that is nearly universally unacceptable - just because.

To paraphrase another apologist, Sam Harris, we extend this blind courtesy in no other intellectual genera; i.e., if you believe mumbling words of a dead language over your toast in the morning will turn it into the body of Elvis, you are destined for a net, whereas if you believe the very same thing about a cracker and Jesus Christ, you're just a Catholic.

I feel that if we cannot create this kind of rational debate, then a reformation of Islam is not only the cardinal sin in the eyes of the Imam, but it is impossible to foment from the outside. Religion will never go away... no matter how ridiculous many of its tenets may be, if we are not allowed to intellectually and logically ridicule the pronouncements of the Imam who espouses genocide and bigotry. If for no other reason, this cultural bias obviates our criticisms in the eyes of the of the vast majority of our fellow citizens who are ignorant and apathetic of the biases of Islam, largely due to this, or very own cultural bias.

If you would be more comfortable answering in private, feel free to use Coffey3C@gmail.com. Either way, I'm very curious to know your thoughts.

Where do the atheist critics think the idea that all humans are of equal and of inestimable value comes from? I think the greatest advances came from secular efforts, such as our constitution. If it's considered politically incorrect to openly state that this country is the greatest on earth... then I would answer that this claim could be validated by the existence of our Bill of Rights.

We live by a JC tradition. Anyone who reticent to say so is... a little to hotly engaged in argumentation to be able to accept all facts easily. However, you can not honestly think that our civil liberties are the direct result of christian religion either. The Liberties we enjoy are largely due to secular pressures placed on, and reforming, the views of the then, Christian majority. Everywhere from the 'Divine Rights of kings, to the near future acceptance that homosexuality is an expression of genetically controlled hormonal regulation.

[
Sadly, long after we accept these, Atheist will still be the only minority you can say any outrageious thing about, and still not get called a bigot. Just look at how readily the host here agrees with an "Hummm-hum." She seems to be a closet agnostic in most of her views, but many would have just said "Amen."
Watch on Youtube: /watch?v=9hTnmZkHnTE
]

The JC heritage condones virtually every heinous crime against humanity, all justified on divine command theory. Most of which, the average American christian today would simply not be capable of contemplating. Slavery, ect... you know the arguments.

We simply must be able to talk honestly about our own differences, if we are to be able to engage with others with whom we violently disagree, if we are to have any rational hope of success.

I've been a atheist from a day when I was seven years old, when my father tired to explain Catholicism to me. Though a very intelligent man, he was never able to convince me of his view, and gave up before I was ten, I seem to recall. I don't think I have the capacity so to do, but I've never found that I lack the compassion to understand each other. If we are offended by someone not capitalizing terms that to many of us have to run through the spell checker to even spell, then discussing the social and moral certitudes may be just a tad above our pay grades.

I can't believe that.

@ coffey3c -

"I think the greatest advances came from secular efforts, such as our constitution."

Which Constitution's foundational idea is that all men (meaning human beings, not just males) are created equal by God - and not just any god, but the biblical God.

@ Cofey3C -

I do not know why you are addressing me, since I have not replied to any of your comments. Maybe you meant to reply to someone else?

But since I'm here:

"In my experience, and because we are very often attacked on the basis of that religion, theists often see Atheists as angry because we too often know a great deal more about Christianity than the Christians attacking us do."

And that sentence is enough to show me yet again that atheists want respect but will give zero to Christians.

"Either way, I'm very curious to know your thoughts."

I highly doubt that.

No one is attacking atheists here. (That I have seen so far. Maybe I missed a comment or two.) I certainly have not done so. Yet every atheist I have spoken to here has been either condescending, insulting or downright false in their accusations.

See, this is good.

If you pull up a copy of the constitution, I'm pretty sure that the word 'God' does not appear in there. Also, the bill of rights does not seem to have the word either.

Remember that the first thing the framers of the constitution did was to make sure that our government was not based on the christian theology you cite, and although you often find the use of language that clearly indicates their own christian heritage... "Endowed by their creator..." You cannot assume that means that the men themselves held that as the highest standard. Take Jefferson for instance. Nor can you assume that when I say "Dear lord, protect me from your followers," that I actually expect any help.

I think the declaration mentions it one time, "Laws of Nature and of Nature's God." [note the word was capitalized.]

Another interesting point, do you know when In god we trust was put on our money. Or! Did you ever hear that the idea that offends so many Christians, that evil atheists want to take god out of the Pledge of Allegiance, really just skirts the issue that the phrase was only added to the pledge in 1953. God when on coinage about ten years later, in '63, I think.

Lastly, please consider, the christian ethic never seems to have demanded all men be treated equally. Slavery was most often justified by statements attributed to a highly cited young rabbi around the beginning of the current era in the new testament.

I understand your feeling this way, but... assumes facts not in evidence. You should look some of it up, because I can guarantee you an interesting evening doing so.

Did you find my first post impolite?

Coffey3C

I addressed my question to you because you made statements regarding all atheists after I had posted.

Either way, I have my answer. Thank you, for taking the time. It was very much appreciated.

Coffey3C

Thank you Boston Tea Party. I couldn't have said it better myself.

@ Jamie -

Thanks for all you do!

Thank you so much Mo! I really appreciate it!

Oh, another flock of atheists, complaining like muslims who don't get their own way... Personally, I am not well disposed towards churches (even j/c based ones) due to personal experience with the hypocrites found in varying numbers in all of them.... I am even less well disposed towards the low church of atheism... It's adherents are most often very poorly educated, seeming to rely on sound-bites rather than study of the original works and their basis.... And that last comment is directed towards coffeyc3 anc godzaconic, a pair of uncommonly ill-informed individuals.

Personally, I am fine with any outlook on life that does not sanction or actively rejects the notion that non-members can be abused, degraded, exploited, murdered etc. Which means I reject islam, and the more ignorant and violent forms of atheism. As for the high profile atheists referred to as 'experts' (Harris??? My god ((pun intended)), you are ignorant!!!) on these boards.... They are pitiable, about a century or more out of date, completely unqualified to comment on religion, and unaware of what current discussion/debate among informed atheists and believers consists of.

Coffey3c, your every comment reeks of being a sound-bite, read somewhere, written by someone who read it somewhere else.... You are not well informed about religion, and have probably offended believers with your glib ignorance, provoking a like response (your snide and vicious comment about crackers and elvis. My how highbrow of you... NOT). Jefferson? Suggest you actually seek out his writing. The small box you seek to put him in, is not big enough. The perfect example of your ignorance, would be your comment seemingly directed towards the one referred to as Christ, with pathetic blather about the slave trade... If you had actually made an effort to educate yourself (and you have not), you would know that the 'slavery' sanctioned by judism (with very limited exceptions), would be best described as indentured servitude: Strike your 'slave', the debt is paid, and the 'slave' is now free. And the other, much more vile variety, is acknowledged, and not excused or embraced (suggest you check out st paul). As well, which religious tradition do you in your extreme ignorance fail to acknowledge as actively attacking and destroying the bloody arab/islamic slave trade??? Hint: it is the one you have so glibbly and foolishly smeared. Christianity killed the slave trade in the west, you ignorant dolt, NOT secularists.

Why is it that nicknames I've never seen before in all my years of reading comments on Jihad Watch bring up red herrings (appropriate for a red bird, lil or otherwise).

The fact is that most atheists in the West are PC MC at best, Leftist at worst; and as such, they tend to indulge in slinging mud at their own Western culture and turning a blind eye to non-Westerners who practice far worse ethical and anti-liberal wrongs -- and when it comes to Islam, this defect in Western atheists becomes particularly egregious and galling. The number of Western atheists who appropriately condemn Islam -- not as equally bad as "all religions" but as screamingly worse than all religions -- I can count on the left hand of a Muslim accused of theft under Sharia law.

Go peddle your nonsense elsewhere.

Is there anyone who can find even ONE comment in coffey's latest effort, that wouldn't apply as much or more to him than anyone else here? Anyone, even a single comment??

He is probably the most offensive sod on the entire board, his

***When it’s important, it’s not enough to call people names and assume they are just ignorant, because they couldn't ever possibly know that things you know.****

You have demonstrated with each and every post that you are NOT educated or informed, your habit of reducing everything to stereotypes is frankly boring, as is your flattering yourself as you insult others.

*You really have to explain with facts and reason.****

Which you fail pathetically to do.

** With me, in any event, that’s certainly the case. That is why I used the Elvis example, a little gentle good humor,*****

No, that is not the case with you, and your so-called 'gentle good humor', is stupidly offensive. And this response to you is from someone who does not bother with the RC church. Can you understand that?? No, you can't

**to try an point out that no matter how justified you feel, all too many people who treat religions with profound political correctness*****

The only 'religion' being treated with polical correctness, is islam. You seem to have not paid attention to that little fact.

*are going to see your points as simply being bigoted tirades. To my mind, you’ve made the point much more clearly than I could have.**

Quit trying to paper over your failure to make a point, and quit whining about not being regarded as our latest and greatest teacher.

You don't answer a single point, you just run off at the mouth (or keyboard), and snivel and whine. And the UN figures also make it clear that J/C based cultures are the ones you are trying to claim as purely secular.

And yes, by the way, you are better off living in a non-muslim theocracy, then in ANY atheistic political system. Atheistic systems accomplished as much bloodshed in a century, as islam did in 5 of its average centuries.

If you are on board to combat the latest fascist threat, fine. Quit spitting on potential allies, and try to actually educate yourself.

Mo, Canadian:

You can be relieved that I feel no rage or hatred, nor any fear of being victimized by either of you. If you guys can't recognize the facts I've given as facts, then you might want to just focus on the concept that just because someone presents one that is inconvenient to your personal view, that it need not be a sarcasm. Sometimes it merely means, that I accept different evidence of what is conclusive.

If you doubt the data that I present, remember... Google is our friend. If you can't find it yourself, then simply ask, and I'll gladly accept the just burden of looking up the things that formed my expressed view, and forward the links on to you. This is only fair, though, clearly you will not enjoy it.

Lastly, the cracker thing was in no way sarcasm. When it comes to presenting factual information, both views are equally well supported by facts, even if you happen to believe one or the other, and no matter how fervently. The actual sarcasm I did let slip in, the idea that you guys have made my point for me, seems to have been a bit too subtle if it was taken to mean I was 'papering over.'

This conversation is pointless however, if you can't understand that my subject was always about islam, and how people who criticize something immoral can't simply rely on the differences between their beliefs, and those of the other guy. It is far more compelling to focus on the moral and humane aspects as they effect our peoples and our civilization, rather than refuting a seventh century manuscript with a second century manuscript. That is, to my mind, the only seminal point which remains.

Your view that I'm spitting on you, or that I need to tolerate bigotry directed at me by that video, or even by you, so that we can all pick up our torches in the spirit of fellowship, is wholly absurd. If you are right, I'll support you. If you go off kilter, I'll more likely feel compelled to make my differences in reason known.

If the audience is inappropriate to make a purely logical point, than I accept and apologize for that error, but only with the caveat that I could never have known the focus of your views, until you began expressing them.
I feel not anger, or rage, right now; just a sad and disappointing sense of inevitability

Merry Christmas, again guys. I hope you are both having an awesome holiday.

@ coffey3c -

"If you guys can't recognize the facts I've given as facts, then you might want to just focus on the concept that just because someone presents one that is inconvenient to your personal view, that it need not be a sarcasm.

What facts (and about what) are you talking about?

This is all more sneering, condescending talk, and with the faux 'have a nice holiday' tacked on at the end.

Feel free to just keep spewing this stuff on the internet for all to see. You are fooling no one.