Obama ends post-9/11 restrictions on Saudis entering U.S.

19.jpgWhat could possibly go wrong?

Fifteen of the nineteen 9/11 hijackers were Saudi nationals. But not to worry. The Saudis have completely eradicated the beliefs and assumptions that led to those attacks, haven’t they? After all, they were motivated by a twisted and hijacked version of Islam that is nowhere found on earth today, especially in Saudi Arabia, right?

“Obama administration ends post-9/11 restrictions on Saudis entering U.S.,” from the World Tribune, January 6 (thanks to Jerk Chicken):

ABU DHABI “” The United States, a decade after Al Qaida strikes in New York and Washington, has opened its doors to Saudi nationals.

Diplomats said the administration of President Barack Obama has removed most restrictions on the entry of Saudis to the United States. They said the percentage of visa approvals for Saudis has reached unprecedented levels.

“The United States aims to raise the number of visas that it issues annually, particularly to Saudi nationals, who represent an important group,” Joseph Hood, U.S. consul-general in the Saudi city of Dhahran, said.

Hood cited economic reasons for the easing of restrictions on Saudis. He said Saudi businessmen and students have been allowed to enter the United States in record numbers, with a 60 percent increase since 2010.

“They form a large segment of travelers to the United States, while they also represent an important economic factor,” Hood said. “In addition, Saudi Arabia also sends a large number of students to the United States, and the number of Saudi students in the United States rivals those from India.”

The U.S. consulate in Dhahran reported issuing 100 visas per day to Saudis. In 2012, the total number of visas reached 21,000, nearly 30 percent of which went to Saudi students or their relatives. About 15,000 Americans were reported to be based in Saudi Arabia’s oil-rich Eastern Province.

The administration decision came amid a series of incidents in which Saudis were implicated in criminal and security offenses. In February 2011, a Saudi student was arrested on charges of plotting to bomb the home of former President George Bush in Texas. Diplomats said more than 70,000 Saudis were registered as studying in the United States.

Earlier this month, a sergeant in the Royal Saudi Air Force was arrested on charges of sexually assaulting a 14-year-old boy in Las Vegas. Mazen Alotaibi was identified as a member of a U.S. training program of Saudi military personnel at the Joint Base San Antonio-Lackland near San Antonio, Texas….

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  1. says

    Of course, ironically due to 9-11, Obama and his wife will receive lifetime Secret Service security protection for the rest of their lives, thanks to the generosity of the American tax payer.

    LA Times December 05, 2012 |By Danielle Ryan

    WASHINGTON — The House has voted to give lifelong Secret Service protection to former presidents and their wives, due to increased national security threats posed post-Sept. 11. The bill passed Wednesday morning by voice vote.
    The bill’s sponsor, Rep. Trey Gowdy (R-S.C.), said in a statement that “the increased mobility and youth” of still-living former presidents added to the necessity of the extension.
    The measure, which now goes to the Senate, would reverse a 1994 law limiting Secret Service protection to 10 years after a president leaves office. Under the previous law, the Department of Homeland Security can extend that protection temporarily any time after the 10-year period expires…

  2. says

    As dumb as dumb can get, but no one should be surprised by this because Obama (and those who admire and serve this doofus), whether complicit or “merely” ignorant, will continue to make America more and more vulnerable, and in sundry ways, towards its own demise.

    Oh yeah, thanks again to all the rubes who voted for Obama this past November. You’re way past “merely dumb.” Way past.

  3. says

    And what proportion of all those Saudi Muslims entering the USA, many of them to ‘study’, are males?

    How does that compare to the proportion of males vs females in other groups entering the US as foreign students (e.g. HIndu and other varieties of non-Muslim Indian, for example; or Chinese or Koreans or Japanese or Filipinos; or non-Muslim Africans)?

    Further observation; I would bet my bottom dollar that most of these Saudi Muslim males are going to engage in predatory ‘marriage jihad’ during their time in the USA, with a view to gaining a more permanent foothold (and breeding some kids for the Ummah) via marriage to a gullible American female who hasn’t seen ‘Submission’ nor read or seen Betty Mahmoody’s ‘Not Without My Daughter’ nor read Phyllis Chesler’s ‘My Afghan Captivity’ or the two books by one ‘Cassandra’ called ’33 Secrets Arab [sic: MUSLIM – dda] Men Don’t Tell American [sic: Infidel -dda] Women’ and ‘Escape! from an Arab Marriage’ (which should probably have been called ‘Escape! from a Muslim Marriage’) or Rosemary Sookhdeo’s ‘Stepping into the Shadows’ and ‘Secrets Behind the Burqa’.

  4. says

    And a bit more on the coldly-calculated and even ultimately murderous ‘marriage jihad’ – domestic terrorism, so to speak – that many of these creeps (even if they don’t engage in plots to blow up buildings, planes, cars, etc) will wage while they’re in America – or in any other non-Muslim country they’re let into, for ‘study’.

    Back to a thread from 2006.


    ‘My first clue about Islam came in college, way back, way back, about 1968.

    ‘My college admitted some wealthy Arab [that is, MUSLIM – dda] boys, probably Saudi,but I am not sure exactly which countries these boys came from.

    ‘**They dazzled the local co-eds with their wealth and extravagant attention and just poured on the charm.** {my emphasis – dda}

    ‘I never socialized with them but I had a friend who did and I saw her boyfriend come and go in the apartment complex we lived in.

’As charming as they were, there was something about the way they talked to you that was unsettling.
    ‘There was something not quite right.

    ‘At the time I couldn’t define it, but, I know what it is now, the undercurrent was a very, very deep and abiding contempt for Western women and probably the West in general. {and note that in “Blink’ Gladwell states that he was told contempt is THE “relationship killer’ – dda}.

    ‘Again, at the time it was just a vague feeling I had, and didn’t like, when I was around these guys.

    ‘ Thank goodness I didn’t fall into their circle.

    ‘**At least one local girl married one, shudder.** {my emphasis – dda}

    ‘Going to be a rough, rough century.’

    Posted by: Athena at April 23, 2006 12:46 PM”.

    And now, finally, a thread from 2010, which contained a long exchange between an American woman (Istanbul Chick) who had converted to Islam (though not as a result of marriage jihad) but then sensibly apostasised back out, and another poster who was an Arabic-speaking Israeli Jewish guy who, in the course of surveilling some Arab Muslim men who were ‘studying’ at an American university, got to overhear their discussions of the campaign to marry – and use, and abuse, and ultimately discard – the American women they were deliberately targeting.


    I won’t reproduce the whole discussion (though it’s worth reading), just a couple of the most arresting posts by the Israeli.

    Avi replied to comment from Istanbul_Chick | October 1, 2010 11:44 AM | Reply
    “Istanbul Chick,

    “Perhaps you don’t grasp what Julianne is driving at, but I was also dismayed to read your descriptions of women as “slags” and “whores,” deserving of whatever may befall them simply because they are fat or older. …

    “As a counter-terrorism expert and fluent speaker of Arabic, I was involved in infiltrating a group of Muslim students in the USA.

    “Basically, I did this by writing English papers for them (none was an English major) while listening to their conversations.

    “**They gave detailed instruction to new arrivals on how to snare a green card by marrying an American woman to whom little attention was paid.** {my emphasis – dda}

    “Sometimes, the women would come to the coffee shops where we met (a public place offers easy escape) and, not speaking Arabic, they had no idea that the men called them whores and cows, their disgust plain to see…
    “Then, they were so solicitous in English.

    “It was some of the most sickening behavior I have ever seen and took everything I had to maintain cover.

    “I feel tremendous guilt that I could not warn these lovely women, but I could not allow any hint that I understood Arabic. This was a long time ago, but I will not forget it as long as I live…”.

    And a little later on, he wrote:

    Avi replied to comment from Istanbul_Chick | October 1, 2010 3:39 PM | Reply

    “Sorry, but what I saw was that the women were absolutely tricked into marrying these men by deceit.

    “I heard and hear enough of these conversations to know that Muslim men well know how to set their snares.

    “**Many of them were already married back home.** {my emphasis – dda}.

    “Their schemes to attract and win over American wives were so consistent that I wondered if it was published in a book.

    ” I scoured the Internet for such a publication, but finally concluded that it is word-of-mouth and now, is commonplace knowledge.

    “Yes, I do realize that there are many Americans, looking for some sort of identity, who readily sign on to Islam to provide it. Males do this as well as females.

    “I suppose I have a less pitiless view of the women involved, and more anger at the men who, uh, screwed them over, because that is what I saw.

    “The cruelty meted out to your fellow American women was vicious.

    “One woman came to the table and shouted at a man and his date – it turned out that the woman was his wife (she was quite lovely – your characterization of these women as “fatties” does not accord with my experience) but he turned to her and said,”Well, how can I help it? American women always have their legs open,” and then proceeded to laugh in her face.

    “**I heard many conversations during which the cheating men plotted to get their American wives and children to go to Pakistan or Syria or Palestine with them under the pretext of ‘working’ on the marriage.

    “Of course, their intention was to divorce their wives on arrival but assume total custody of the children. ** {my emphasis – dda}.

    “Again, I will never forget the way they talked about these plots amongst themselves, clearly stating that if they could get away with it, they would readily kill their American spouses…”.

  5. says

    Hood cited economic reasons for the easing of restrictions on Saudis. He said Saudi businessmen and students have been allowed to enter the United States in record numbers, with a 60 percent increase since 2010.

    Well, of course! What could be better for the economy than another 9/11? sarc/off


    The administration decision came amid a series of incidents in which Saudis were implicated in criminal and security offenses.

    Um…what am I missing here? We’re *rewarding* criminality and terrorism?


    In February 2011, a Saudi student was arrested on charges of plotting to bomb the home of former President George Bush in Texas…

    Earlier this month, a sergeant in the Royal Saudi Air Force was arrested on charges of sexually assaulting a 14-year-old boy in Las Vegas…

    Pedophilic rape and Jihad terror”this is how Saudi Muslims are “enriching” American society…

    And the idea that we are training the military of a Muslim hell-hole that *beheads “witches”* shows the insanity…

  6. says

    To dhimmis in the West (including the press) it was a “tragic event”, somewhat like a hurricane.
    To Muslims in the West, it was a “wonderful opportunity” to “explain their religion”.
    And to Muslims in the Muslim world, it was thoroughly deserved by the US.
    How few of us see it for what it really was.

  7. says

    Who brought down building 7?
    The pictures show a controlled level-by-level implosion.
    Most Saudi people are perfectly normal nice people, most of them would likely make much better Americans than the current President Pharaoh Hussein

  8. says

    You’re an Idiot,
    Do you know that the west ( esp US, UK, and Australia ) send more aid to Somalia ( 99.9%. Muslim country which just a strip of water separating it from Saudi babaria ) individually??

    And even if Building 7 was a controlled destruction ( as you and your types claim ), how does that explain saudi men flying planes into the WTC, how does it explain joyous celebration and Alahu Akhbars ringing all over the muslim world? how does it explain OBL and Al Waki proclaiming victory and vowing to conquer and re-conquer all lands and nations for the Muslim Ummah??

    Are you aware that the islamists in Mali who promised peaceful negotiations and dialogue with the African Union / UN back mission troops have started moving southwards to occupy/conquer the rest of Mali for the muslim Ummah?

    Ignorance is Bliss. I hope you remain ignorant

  9. says

    George…Truthers have everything but a culprit…They know somebody dun it, but they don’t have the foggiest idea who…A faceless Illuminati agent must have dun it…Only the Illuminati can talk 19 Mahoundians into killing themselves for kuffar…Allah must have been fuming about that…

  10. says

    Another anti-American act. The government, this President allows potential terrorist into the country and after a catastrophe has taken place THEN they act. Where is the safe guards to prevent another 911. Bin Laden still has many followers from Saudi Arabia. I think this is an idiotic thing to do until we destroy any idea of harming America and her citizens ever again. That will take time and there’s still much to do. Until this war is over, this government should NOT allow ANY muslims into the country period.

  11. says

    Obama the un-American, islamizing our country, sprinkling us with muslims, one plane-load at-a-time.

    Oh, and “George5773″: You’re giving our name a bad-rap here with your truther nonsense. And, if you’re so fond of Saudis, perhaps you should emigrate there? Make sure you un-teach your wife how to drive…

  12. says

    “Diplomats said the administration of President Barack Obama has removed most restrictions on the entry of Saudis to the United States. They said the percentage of visa approvals for Saudis has reached unprecedented levels.”

    Well, here we have more great news (sarc!), so thank you American voters for reelecting this evil and dangerous man.

  13. says

    And since I have mentioned ‘marriage jihad’, here are some cautionary tales, shared here at this very website in the past.

    First, a comment in this thread from 2005 –


    ‘Saira, Dennisw is right: Many scummy Muslim guys come here and marry a stupid American woman.

    ‘I have been practicing law in a major Texas city for many years.

    ‘I see the divorce cases involving muslim men and American women.

    ‘Some of them draw a lot of attention among the courthouse regulars, and we can drop in to watch the proceedings. The media don’t bother.

    ‘After we see half a dozen or so, we realize that they all follow the same script.

    ‘Mr. Tall Dark and Handsome woos the gal with lots of flowers and fancy talk about his LOVE for her, about her BEAUTY (only rarely true), his RESPECT for her as a person (!!), lots about himself, his family back home, maybe his wealth, and dreams of Arabian Nights and World Travel. It all sounds like the same cheap paperback romance.

    ‘After the marriage, he starts ignoring her. His sex is perfunctory, or he plays around. If she wants more affection, he calls her a “whore” and a “slut” and a “prostitute” and when she objects to this treatment he calls her a “bitch” and etc.

    ‘ When things get nasty (yeah, that’s only the beginning), he threatens to take the kids to Saudi Arabia, Syria, Palestine, or whereever else his cousins live.

    ‘She gets scared. He demands dhimmi. She gives in.

    ‘The lucky women, the strong women, and the ones who have a good father or mother around (if he hasn’t moved her to a new city), may eventually file for divorce, and we can entertain ourselves with the sordid details that usually make other domestic divorces look mild.

    ‘The anal sex usually wakes up the audience, but the real legal corker is the threat to take the kids. And that is a real threat.

    ‘The foreign jurisdiction NEVER respects our court’s jurisdiction or our court’s child custody orders. Treaties for international cooperation in such matters, if there are any, are ignored.

    ‘If daddy manages to get the child to Iran or Palestine, etc., it’s kiss the kids goodbye.

    ‘As in almost all custody disputes, the court appoints a lawyer to represent the child’s best interests and report to the court, and represent the child at trial.

    ‘Everybody knows, but doesn’t talk about, the FACT that daddy’s threat is DAMN SURE WHAT HE MEANT and will be executed if he gets half a chance. So daddy ends up with supervised visitation.

    ‘Those cases are the ones where, as I said, the woman was lucky or strong.

    ‘Unfortunately, most women are so whipped, beaten, shoved down, and depressed, that they cannot bring themselves to act.

    ‘They live lives of horror and desperation and try not to think about their child being put on a plane to the madrassa, that daddy will marry his cousin, and his new wife will work hard to make a suicide bomber out of her unwanted stepchild.

    Posted by: texan at August 3, 2005 12:03 AM

    And then, just from last year:


    Mary | January 5, 2012 6:28 PM | Reply

    ‘These things are actually happening in the U.S. also. I had a friend who married a Muslim man (against strong advice).

    ‘He took her back to his Muslim country for six months for a “honeymoon.”

    ‘She came back conditioned. She was a beaten down ghost of her former self. I once saw him punch her leg for not agreeing with him over something very minor.

    ‘He isolated her, refusing to let her talk to me, and she could only go anywhere with him along.

    ‘She got a job and supported him until she gave birth to his son, and he exercised total control over how the son was being raised (Muslim).

    ‘**She was then found beaten to death, and him and their little son were found to have gone back to his Muslim country** {my emphasis – dda} (no extradition possible). I have no doubt he will return someday with his father’s whole family.”

    Increase the number of Muslim males – especially cashed-up spoilt Saudi princelings and clansmen – ‘studying’ in American universities where they have access to the coeds, and we can guarantee an exponential increase in the number of horror stories such as those two posters shared with us.

  14. says

    george5773 wrote:

    Who brought down building 7?
    The pictures show a controlled level-by-level implosion.
    Most Saudi people are perfectly normal nice people, most of them would likely make much better Americans than the current President Pharaoh Hussein

    Another repulsive “Truther”. As though having the debris from a 100+ story building land on the roof wouldn’t be enough to bring it down.

    And do you believe that all Jihad”all the 20,000 Jihad attacks all over the world were pulled off by George Bush and Mossad? What crap.

    And your idea that that Saudi Muslims”from a place that doesn’t allow women to drive, that treats domestic servants like slaves, that tells British-Saudi teenagers that their fathers can murder them without penalty, that crucifies thieves, that beheads “adulterous” women”would make good Americans simply sickens me.

  15. says


    Do you have a link for the comments field you quoted —

    And a little later on, he [Avi] wrote:

    Avi replied to comment from Istanbul_Chick | October 1, 2010 3:39 PM | Reply

    “Sorry, but what I saw was that the women were absolutely tricked into marrying these men by deceit.


  16. says

    Greetings, DDA!

    Wow! Talk about a blast from the past!

    In hindsight I realize that many readers saw my blasts on Western women who marry mohammadan males as rude, caustic, and way over the top.

    There are more polite ways of expressing contempt for their utter foolishness but I still stand by what I posted. I had just returned home from dar al islam and the mohammadan madness I witnessed on a daily basis. My nerves and emotions were still fairly raw.

    There is no shortage of data clearly showing an increase of mohammadan aggressions against infidels and their cultures as the mohammadans’ number increase. Thus I show no respect for Westerners who for whatever reasons add to the number of mohammadans.

    I don’t care if they marry mohammdans out of desperation, cluelessness, selfishness, or trickery on the part of the mohammadans. Their lack of common sense is a direct threat to my well being and way of life.

    I should add that one usually cannot be tricked unless one is willing to be tricked. These women and men overlook red flags that had they come from their fellow Westerners they would have known immediately that they were being duped. For their own selfish satisfaction they ignore those red flags when they are posited by their mohammadan Romeos and Juliets.

    After personally witnessing the utter stupidity and selfishness of such people I have zero sympathy for them. To me they are nothing more or less than traitors to their respective countries. Unfortunately some of them betray their own children! JW has had more than a few articles about such women endangering their own children or being responsible for their deaths (Patricia Said) just to satisfy their own libidos/emotions. My opinion of these women and men will never change.

    My anger, and rhetoric has tempered somewhat since my original postings, but the underlying cause for them has not.

    mohammadan males (and females all too often) are dangerous creatures. Tigers are as well. When a fool sticks his or her arm in a tiger’s cage do we blame the fool or the tiger for the carnage that happens as a result of the fool’s stupidity?

    I see no difference between the fool and men and women who marry mohammadans knowing full well the dangers of such a “relationship.”

    But that’s just me.:)

    I’m always glad to see your contributions to JW. I hope all is well with you and yours down under!

  17. says


    I did an advanced Google search for all instances of “Avi replied” specifiying Jihad Watch, and found only one instance — from a comment where Avi replied to Hugh in the same month and year (Oct 2010).

    (By contrast, an advanced search for “Istanbul_Chick replied” yields pages of different JW comments fields:

    http://www.google.ca/search?as_q=%22Istanbul_Chick+replied%22&as_epq=&as_oq=&as_eq=&as_nlo=&as_nhi=&lr=&cr=&as_qdr=all&as_sitesearch=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.jihadwatch.org%2F&as_occt=any&safe=images&tbs=&as_filetype=&as_rights= )

    I also did advanced Google searches for various clumps of text from what you quoted (the part I asked about) — which only yielded this thread and another from a few days ago where you apparently pasted in much of the same transcripts.

    A mystery.

  18. says

    Just check and see what companies and corporations made and are still making the most money (running in the billions of dollars) and you would have found your culprit.

    No matter the hundreds of terrorist attacks since 9/11 by Muslims, there is none that equals the 9/11 atrocity in scope, planning and logistics. It was not planned by cave-dwellers that is for sure. Use your grey matter people and do not take in hook line and sinker what the corporate media feeds you.

  19. says

    Ah, I see I got one answer at least (if only obliquely and accidentally) from my two questions — namely, for the first question, my curiosity was piqued as to why someone (viz., “Avi”) would have to adiopt a protestant tone at all in response to Istanbul_Chick as though he has to convince her that Muslim men are jihad-predators; and now I see that Avi felt it necessary to try to defend those frumpy white women and let them off the hook, if only somewhat, by being understandably duped by a deceitfulness sufficiently clever so as to allow us to sympathize with the victim, if only somewhat — while I now see the logic of Istanbul_Chick’s demurrer in this regard: she has no truck with Western dupes, and I usually agree. However, methinks she may be transferring some of her emotional rage at herself for her own temporary phase of being a dupe plus a feminist rage at women allowing themselves to be predated by men, and allowing these emotional factors to cloud the issue. The issue being the principle that when it comes to Muslims, we should not make distinctions; but when it comes to our Western dupes (whether they be gullible females or gullible silver-haired male Generals and many shades in between) we do need to make distinctions — because many, if not most, of our fellow Western dupes are indeed relatively good, decent and intelligent people, not Leftist demons with horns. And that is really our overarching problem. But it’s always so much easier (and fun) to demonize (except, of course, when you are anxious to avoid being accused of “generalizing” against “all Muslims”).

    This is yet another tendency I keep seeing creeping into the Counter-Jihad: our “Fifth Column” is monolithicially demonized as “Leftist” and “Elites” and all of them are equally evil; whereas when it comes to Muslims, there is suddenly all too often a timidity to use the dreaded A word. I have a hunch that while Istanbul_Chick would unhesitatingly condemn all Western dupes without delicately parsing them into shades of subcategory such that some of them become excusable or understandable (due to the usual “not all Muslims know their Islam”, or “many are lax, I’ve seen Muslims drink alcohol and listen to music ergo they cannot be deemed a danger to us”, or “I’ve known some good Muslims, you can’t generalize”, et blah cetera), when it comes to Muslims she suddenly would hasten to do just that, based on her “experience” with them.

  20. says

    As to my second question — why I can’t find the thread from October 2010 quoted by dda (and dda apparently doesn’t have it either, since while she supplied a link to the other exchange, she had no link to this one) — I guess it’s still a mystery (and I have a hunch it will remain so).

  21. says

    To cut to the chase:

    I am not a feminist. Not by a long shot. I’ve been accused of being a misogynist. That is closer to the truth. I abhor stupid, manipulative(Which is an apt description of most feminists), and deceitful women. As a woman, their bad behaviour reflects on me. The bad behaviour of men does not.

    I rail on the women who are “duped” by mohammadans harder because quite simply I’ve encountered more of them than their male counterparts. Also their behaviour affected me directly. I was accosted, called a prostitute, hooker, etc. etc, because of said desperate women desperately and digustingly spreading their legs for mohammadans. When desperate Western males behave as their female counterparts it had no direct affect on me.

    You would have to actually meet, speak and interact with such females to understand my utter revulsion for them. You would have to be a woman who lived among mohammadans to understand exactly how their allowing themselves to be “duped” (they dupe themselves)affects you personally to understand.

    Feminist?! That was a hateful and hurtful thing to say, LL.

  22. says

    Lemon, you haven’t been paying attention.

    You will not find one single post in which I defend “moderate” mohammadans. I’ve made it pretty clear that they are all hazardous to our health despite outward appearances.

    I’ve made note of the many instances in which those “drinking, partying” “secular humanists” or “atheists” launched into full on dawa about how wonderful mohammad was.

    You have also never read a post in which I praise or defend Zudhi Jaser. You will not find one because despite his contributions to counter-jihad he still identifies as a mohammadan. Therefore in my book he is simply a scorpion offering me a ride across the river.

    I feel that way about even the “nice” mohammadans I met and know personally. Until they completely eject islam they are all suspect.

    Don’t lump me in with the fools who use the “but we can’t generalize” canard.

  23. says


    I do have a link and I did give a link.

    The discussion between Avi and Istanbul Chick took place in the Comments to this thread –

    and I damn well gave the link to the *story* to which that particular lot of comments were attached, in my posting above, like so:


    Click on it.

    Scroll down through the comments. It was a 95 comment thread, and Typepad has now split up the comments into two bits, so when you get partway through you’ll see ‘Newer Comments': click on *that* and when it opens up, you’ll have it all.

    In any case, here are the specific links for the two comments by Avi, from which I quoted.



  24. says


    To LemonLime who spent more than a paragraph in baseless speculations.

    Please do not jump to conclusions on those occasions when I do not reply *right away* to this or that question in a particular thread.

    Do not assume that I have no answer, or am ( for some psychological reason) refusing to answer.

    Reality check.

    I am in *Australia*. We therefore, to start with, inhabit two entirely different time zones.

    You have *no* idea what my daily routine might be and I certainly don’t know *yours*. None of us knows these sorts of things about the others. It’s safest to assume that if someone doesn’t say anything for awhile, after having posted, they are, well..ABSENT. Not there. Doing something else.

    Further: I do not always sit down to visit this forum at the same time; sometimes a thread is just opening up, as I am about to go to bed (which means I will then be out of circulation for up to eight hours) and by the time I get up and have another look at it, it has finished and everyone has moved on; right now it is also summer school holidays here, so there will be and have been long periods of time – a day or more – when I have been away from the internet altogether. And there are entirely different things that I do, and sites that I visit, on which I may spend, say, a whole evening.

    The fact that I do not reply *at once* or even within a day or two, to a particular query in a particular thread, means *nothing*, so please do waste time spinning elaborate theories.

    It most likely simply means that I have made a comment and then gone on to read my way through *other* threads…or gone to another site altogether…or gone to bed, or gone off to do housework, or to do something with the family.

  25. says

    I forgot about that new “Newer comments” thing.

    I wonder what happened to “Avi” anyway. He’s exactly the kind of Counter-Jihad dope/dupe I’m referring to, who doubtless believes we “can’t be against all Muslims”. I loved reading Istanbul_Chick’s rejoinder, which seemed to have sailed past Avi’s liberal head.

    By the way, Istanbul_Chick, my sister is one of those blithering idiot fat white girls so desperate for attention she hooked up with a Palestinian Muslim who claimed to be an “ex-Muslim” (and who, along with his brother, was teaching a “flight school” in California… oh brother!). I have become estranged from my sister, in great part because she so adamantly defends Islam and Muslims and because she (like me, through our mother), an American with roots going back to the Founding Fathers, is a shameful anti-American Leftist fuckwad.

  26. says

    That’s good to know, Istanbul_Chick. But frankly, I’ve found to my dismay that one can never assume that just because someone is busy condemning certain Muslims they don’t suddenly pop out with statements that defend other Muslims somehow defined (through various logical gyrations) to be somehow defensible.

    So I’m glad you’re actually one of the few in the Counter-Jihad unafraid of the “A word”. I’ll make a mental note of it — easy to remember, since there are, alas, still relatively so few of us.

  27. says

    I didn’t read ‘Avi’ the way you do. After all, there he was sharing all this absolutely damning evidence; if he hadn’t come on the site, and told those very useful stories, worth re-telling, we wouldn’t know them at all. It’s one thing to guess that something’s happening, another thing to hear the sort of thing he was describing. For all we know, he’s lurking here still, intermittently, or has a job and family that take up too much time and energy for him to have time to post here regularly.

    Example: my husband knows of this site, and agrees with me about Islam, and looked in briefly and made a couple of posts on just one occasion, and has never been back since; too busy and he doesn’t feel the need.

    Just because someone posts here briefly, or intermittently, does not indicate they have an ‘agenda’, or that they’ve been ‘exposed’ and driven away, or whatever.

    I’ve told you before and I’ll tell you again: you are *far* too inclined to go for over-elaborate scenarios to explain posters’ comings and goings, when perfectly innocent and simple ones suffice on most occasions.

    And I have more pity for those who – knowing little about Islam, and that little badly distorted – are preyed upon by Muslims, than you do; perhaps because, coming from a solidly down to earth Christian background I have not only a sense of sin but *also* a very strong sense of human weakness, human frailty. Nobody is infallible. People make mistakes; and when sex is involved, people can make HUGE mistakes, because they are basically not thinking rationally at all. Ordinary nice people get conned by conmen, so why should not ordinary nice people get conned by Muslim Ueber-con-artists?

    You seem to think in very strict black and white, all or nothing, failure is FINAL categories. Have you, so to speak, already consigned your poor sister to the Outer Darkness?

    I don’t. “Where there’s life, there’s hope”, and all that. Or, as a very wise priest at a church I attended years ago once said: “The future is open”. Why? Because the Holy One is gracious, that’s why.

    Saleem Smith, and Istanbul Chick, right here at this site, are evidence that perfectly normal intelligent non-psychologically-disturbed westerners *can* get sucked into Islam…and that they can get out again. If they can, others can too.

    I really do encourage you to read Mark Durie’s ‘Liberty to the Captives’ – and since your silly sister got involved with a Muslim (you say ‘hooked up’ – DID she marry him? is she still with him, and are they still in the USA?) read Rosemary Sookhdeo’s ‘Stepping into the Shadows’ and read the advice she gives to those whose family members have done what your sister has done.

    Did she convert to Islam? Do they have children?

    You strike me as feeling it a bit beneath you to talk to God – the biblical God, YHWH – like he’s a real, actual, loving, person who is interested in your personally – and in your sister – and who might actually *answer* prayers in real life, every now and again – unless you’ve decided He isn’t, and can’t, because you prayed for your sister and your prayers haven’t been answered..yet – but all I can say to you is, if you *haven’t* prayed for her, then in the name of God, DO; and if you *have* and have then have given up in anger or despair…start again, anyway. If you’re angry with God for not answering your prayers and not rescuing your sister – yet – then go ahead, tell him that – jump up and down, yell and shout, be angry, He can deal with it; but don’t stop praying. And light a candle to St Jude…

    I will write your sister into my prayer book – as ‘LL’s sister’ and pray every Friday for her deliverance – and I’ll throw in prayers for the man involved, to apostasise from Islam – from now on until and unless I hear from you that she is dead.

    I say to you: she *needs* prayer. Lots and lots of it.

  28. says

    Postscriptum: I see you said your sister’s man was ‘a Palestinian Muslim who claimed to be an “ex-Muslim”‘. (And was he subsequently revealed not to have left Islam at all? What indicators suggested or decisively showed that the claim was spurious?).

    If he *was* a kinda-sorta apostate, but with assorted Islamic monkeys – or jinn – still sticking to his back, then Durie’s book will explain why and how that works…and what would have to happen, for those monkeys to get permanently UN-stuck.

  29. says

    “I didn’t read ‘Avi’ the way you do. After all, there he was sharing all this absolutely damning evidence…”

    All the more reason why he should know better — to consider all Muslims suspect, until overwhelmingly incontrovertible evidence dictates otherwise.

    “… if he hadn’t come on the site, and told those very useful stories, worth re-telling, we wouldn’t know them at all.”

    That’s a separate issue.

  30. says

    It’s not so much that my sister’s ex officially defined himself as ex-Muslim; it was more his disenchantment with “all religions”. But that didn’t stop him from being anti-Western. Would you trust any ex-Muslim to be on the same plane as your children or grandchildren?

  31. says

    I observe you say, “my sister’s ex”.

    So, be thankful for small mercies; she’s no longer with him. To that extent, she’s more fortunate than many. Maybe she has a little more sense than you credit her with?

    That simplifies things; I will pray for the removal of any possible Islamic influence over her. And I will pray for *his* complete liberation from Islamic influence, as well.

    I guess that’s where we differ. You seem to think, once a Muslim always a Muslim; once a dhimmi, *always* a dhimmi. That *nobody* can ever be freed of the bondage of Islam.

    As I said above, read Mark Durie, Liberty to the Captives.

    Because he has *seen* people set free from both types of bondage. You, of course, will probably prefer to disbelieve him. I don’t see any reason to do that.

    As for someone’s being ‘anti-western’, that doesn’t necessarily mean they are a Muslim, or aligned with Islam.

    A Chinese atheist or a Russian communist – or a certain subspecies of Russian Eastern Orthodox who likes to hark back to the old schism within Christendom – could be ‘anti-western’ without being Muslim (and, indeed, could quite possibly be *both* anti-western *and* anti-Muslim).

    Muslims, of course, aren’t just anti-western, they’re anti-everythingnotIslam.