Can Islam be reformed? Moroccan ex-Muslim says no

“He [al-Ghasali] does not give any solutions. So do all Muslims need to leave their faith?” Jasser asked.

Yes, and they are.
http://crossmuslims.blogspot.com/2010/05/dying-islam-lislam-mourant.html

As for Nonie Darwish:
Darwish also shared her belief that being a Muslim “is a contract with the state, not a relationship with God.”

I have to disagree with her on this one; it's a contract with the devil, not with the state, let alone with God.
http://crossmuslims.blogspot.com/2011/10/muhammad-and-satan_24.html

Here's a difference that folks like Jasser miss: Christianity didn't need to be reformed, "only" some Christians did. Christianity was OK to begin with and it was "just" certain Chrisitans in earlier times that screwed up the Christian message.

By contrast, Islam is not OK, never has been, definitely needs reform but you can't reform something rotten to begin with and, as important, Muslims carrying out the violent dictates of the Koran have Islam down correctly and those Muslims who explain away the violent imperatives in the Koran, for instance by way of fallacious comparisons with the Old Testament, a work, unlike the Koran, which is often merely descriptive and not always prescriptive, are deluding themselves respecting what Islam is all about.

In short, Islam is incapable of reform, though this is desperately needed, and Christianity never needed reform from its outset. A greater contrast between these two religions would be hard to find, though some as great, for example the character of each religion's founder, also exist.

Islam cannot be reformed as Muslims believe it is the word of Mo/allah that can't be changed. If they change it then they will not be Muslims anumore.

Islam will not change nor will Muslims chage their behavior towards non-Muslims. islam will have to be destryed by force unless Muslims open their minds and startrt accepting the truth about Islam that it is vile and violent religion and it has no place in the civilized world. They will start leaving Islam in droves and the religion will wither away and then there will be no need to use force.

"If Muslims could use their reason without the instructions of a book which is recognized as the Word of God, then we could talk about enlightenment. But today most Muslims are against the ideas of the Western Enlightenment.”

-- al-Ghasali

This is actually an over-simplification by al-Ghasali; and one shared by a lot of Westerners.

In fact, the Enlightenment did not fall from the blue sky nor did it arrive hermetically sealed from Neptune. It grew organically out of a Christendom in which a book (the Bible) was indeed "recognized as the Word of God".

Christianity, for complex historical and philosophical reasons, was able to grow an Enlightenment (and, previously, a Renaissance -- not that the Middle Ages with all its intellectually and technologically vibrant centuries often unfairly belittled by Moderns were anything to sneeze at)); because Christianity evidently had the requisite spiritual and noetic soil, water, nutrients and light by which to grow such progress (however, paradoxically problematic has been that progress).

The Arabs, however, did not produce a culturally arable land: Their seed and spawn
fell by the way side, and the fowls came and devoured them up... [and] fell upon stony places, where they had not much earth: and forthwith they ejected prematurely, because they had no deepness of earth -- whereas, throughout Christendom, the seeds fell into good ground, and brought forth fruit, some an hundredfold, some sixtyfold, some thirtyfold.

Not that the Western arbor that has ensued is without problems, patches of rotten fruit, tangles of luxuriant excess that need pruning; but the miracle of civilization is here there, and everywhere nevertheless, for those with eyes to see the forest for the trees -- for those, at least, whose hearts have not been tarnished with that most curious Western disease of morbid self-recrimination and guilt.

If Islam let people freely leave, there would be no Islam, except maybe a small gang of thugs that everyone laughed at like the 'Muslim Patrol' in the UK.

Muslims know this and therefore they have apostasy and blasphemy laws, honor killings, beating the Koran into the kids, and so forth.

Reform? What would be left if you took the filth violence error and hatred out of Islam? Nothing. Islam must first be eradicated from civilization; next, from the Islamic hellholes; finally, from the annals of history.

Reform? Explain that to Allah Abu...'I didn't like some of the things you said in your book, so I reformed some and ignored others, I hope you don't mind'...

Stoke up the fire, Allah wants to have an Abu roast...

As Jaladhi and others have stated, Islam simply cannot be reformed. The divine, literal word of Allah cannot be modified, otherwise the Qur'an loses its divinity and collapses at its very foundation. It is interpreted today just as it was, historically. Normative and mainstream.

The supposed purity of its text is Islam's claim to fame over the Judaic and Christian texts. Without this, it is revealed to be what it truly is, ranging from cheap plagarism at its most innocuous self, to downright homicidal, and merely the product of the sociopathic, rambling mind of Muhammad.

Jasser surely knows this. He is free to practice his own form of unique Islam, but he is complicit, to the detriment of all non-Muslims, in trying to put forth his vision as mainstream as opposed to the truth about his own private Islam, which is about as fringe as it gets from one who still claims to be a devout Muslim.

Can islam be reformed? No! muslims don't allow ANY criticism of islam or their "prophet". Speaking the truth about muhammad is completely off-limits and they become furious; so it's really a muslims attitude that needs to be reformed, and I just don't see that EVER happening.

Out of context...Oh no, not that...Context morphs the Quran from a Holy Book, to a not too reliable history book...One ayat leads to another ayat that leads to an event...That makes the Quran a history book because you can put a time limit on an event, which is not for all time...Allah's instructions on what a Mahoundian should do during an event, have no time limit, and are 'precedents' on how to act in future similar events...Allah's instructions and sage advice are good forever...

Firstly it's a good thing that this article mentioned two apostates from Islam who are now speaking the truth this should be prime examples to Muslims that indeed their are those who leave this so called religion as Muslims find this fact impossible to grasp with. Secondly I would like to ask Mr Jasser what his dailil or evidence is from the Koran and Sunnah in order to initiate his reforms since Allah claims in he koran Surah 5:3 ''That this day I have perfected your religion for you and chosen Islam as your religion'' Mr Jasser I must respectfully say you are the biggest joke you have no dailil for your reforms your hated and mocked in the Islamic community and no non Muslims take you seriously face it Islam unlike all other religions can never be reformed how can you reform something while at the same time believing it to be perfect unchanging and good for all times and places. To conclude may God protect bless our two apostates and give them the strength to continue speaking the truth Ameen.

To borrow a sports-term, islam "is what it is." It's been what it is for 14 blood-filled centuries and if it did reform, it wouldn't be islam. What concerns me more is that the apologists, the enablers for islam--in the clergy, politics, journalism, etc--are just as reform-proof as islam itself. How we can have so many who deny, excuse and openly collude with our enemies--in the face of a barrage of evidence every day--that's what leaves me shaking my head in disgust and contempt.

From the article -
"Darwish also shared her belief that being a Muslim “is a contract with the state, not a relationship with God.”

“If you leave the Islamic world — that state — or any Muslim — can kill you,” she said....".

Islam is the Ummah-Gang, the Mohammedan Mob: perhaps best thought of not as a 'nation' (unless one envisages a nation like North Korea, or like Hitler's Third Reich, or China at the height of Mao's power) but as a combination of organised crime 'family' (e.g. the Mafia, Camorra, Triads, Yakuza) and... human-sacrifice death cult, like the Thuggees (who if I recall correctly, were also heavily into robbery and extortion).

One cannot and does not even try to 'reform' things like the Mafia or the Thuggee Cult...or the Ummah Gang: the only thing to do, if one is unlucky enough to have been born into such an entity, and then per miraculum 'awakens' morally and spiritually, is to shake the dust of it off one's feet, and FLEE, as far and as fast as one can. And then arm oneself and one's new, sane friends, so as to hit with a big hammer the assassins from the Mob/ Gang/Cult, who will be coming after you to punish you for leaving.

Christianity and Islam as well as other religions can not be reformed because all religions are based on their scriptures respectively. What is called "reform" in Islam is nothing more than picking selected verses or hadiths based on personal taste, but when it is about the fundamental issue, then the answer is about the same. For example, some muslims may not consider the non muslims as their enemies like the hardliners who consider all non muslims as their enemies. But when the non muslims are considered crossing the line and become the enemies of Islam, the treatment will be the same, kill the non muslims.

I would agree with the many commentators that state that Qur'anic authorized perspectives cannot "officially be changed". That the culture and practice of Islam would likely not change by methods commonly in play in Muslim countries or communities. (Such "official change" could only occur as a result of the anticipated "trumpet calls" referenced eleven times in the Qur'an?)

That said.....

Religions have "changed" and I could see, albeit very slowly, Islamic people changing "practice" in the same way that Jewish practice has changed over time. Please consider:

- Are adulterers stoned in Israel or any other Jewish community on the planet? (I have never heard of such an even in my life time.)

- Are "insolent sons" stoned in Israel or in other Jewish communities?

- When Israeli forces have engaged in battle have they "killed every living thing" in areas they conquered?

(There are probably other references that could be useful to consider but this is what comes most quickly to mind.)

Such changes could be called a psychic shift due to a changing "spirit of the age", dramatic changes in a sense of reality?

Can Islamic believers deny that in the last 160 years the reality of military prowess has dramatically shifted to other loci on the planet? Even Communist Russia and China have much greater military capability than any Muslim country, and Russia and China are way behind the US and NATO? Has not the ability to "effectively wage global jihad" been effectively checkmated? To be sure Iran can do damage in the ME, and al-Qaeda's pricks are painful, but no Turkish army (or equivalent) can rise up and even start to march to the gates of Vienna? While the calls for jihad have gone out how many have actually stepped forward to join the various "jihad conflicts" on the planet 5%, 1%, 0.5% of young Muslim men? Four Muslim suicide bombers in London will not conquer England?

I do not discount the seriousness of ideology and vision for violence for it is such ideas which have generated great carnage on the planet, a-la Mein Kempf. Such ideology needs to be challenged. But the question is how to challenge an ideology?

Does it start with asking the very basic question has the World so DRAMATICALLY SHIFTED that you cannot possibly implement your basic beliefs, particularly regarding war? How do you see the World developing? What kind of world do you want to create for your children and grand children?

If the West were to step forward and say we are going to focus on creating a global civilization that promotes prosperity, health, joy and happiness for all please show how you can contribute to this effort, how powerful would this idea be? You are welcome to join us, and we will assist you in this direction, but if you insist on attacking us we will encapsulate you like white corpuscles in the body and contain you. If you create missiles and ready to attack us we will attack you.

Scientists in the 1500's were persecuted for demonstrating that the World was round, such reality clearly became obvious to everybody on the planet. Are we experiencing a similar tectonic shift of reality but in the realm of religion?

Guys,check out:

"The Evidence is the 1995 Srebrenica Massacre of 8,000 Muslims by Serbs is a Hoax"

http://www.antisharia.com/2012/03/16/the-evidence-is-the-1995-srebrenica-massacre-of-8000-muslims-by-serbs-is-a-hoax/

AND ALSO

"The Koran approves of the Gospel as it Existed in Muhammad’s Day"

http://www.antisharia.com/2013/02/21/the-koran-approves-of-the-gospel-as-it-existed-in-muhammads-day/

Can evil be reformed? Of course not, 'nuff said!

The Ahmadiyya movement was a reformist movement of sorts. Both branches of the movement are regarded as kuffar by the Sunni and Shia and if they call themselves muslims they're attacked. A new reform movement is likely to get the same welcome.

So, it appears as if the what if Islam is reformed argument, the hypothetical impossibility, is trying to gain traction in this thread as opposed to acknowledging that the aforementioned change is impossible?

Color me skeptical and wholly unconvinced.

The reformation of Islam can only result in the absolute abolishment of Islam.

There is no other logical conclusion.

can cancer be reformed? why would anyone want to bother? just get RID of it.

Realistically, Muslims must be opposed as deadly enemies. To expect them to change in sufficient numbers to make a difference to the problem they, following their Islam, are causing, is unrealistic, and will likely cost us too many lives in the following decades. Anyone who advocates any policy or philosophy that supports such a venture must be seen as in grievous error. At best, such an advocate has not rationally assimilated all the data about Muslims that is available. At worst, they are trying to aid and abet our enemy.

There is no third choice.