German troops sent to Turkey as part of NATO mission stunned to find the Turks aren't happy to have them there

“The requirements of the war made it necessary that Christian, sentimental, and political considerations simply vanish.”

Well, what benefit was it to the Germans that the Turks were able to carry out a successful mass genocide?

Graven asks

When is the West going to get a clue? Seriously?

They are not going too.

Below is an extract from

Ambassador Morgenthau,s Story

1918

In the course of time these Turks might learn certain things from their European and Arab neighbours, but there was one idea which they could never even faintly grasp. They could not understand. that a conquered people were anything except slaves. When they took possession of a land, they found it occupied by a certain number of camels, horses, buffaloes., dogs, swine, and human beings. Of all these living things the object that physically most resembled themselves they regarded as the least important. It became a common saying with them that a horse or a camel was far more valuable than a man; these animals cost money, whereas "infidel Christians" were plentiful in the Ottoman countries and could easily be forced to labour. It is true that the early Sultans gave the subject peoples and the Europeans in the empire certain rights, but these in themselves really reflected the contempt in which all non-Moslems were held. I have already described the "Capitulations," under which foreigners in Turkey had their own courts, prisons, post offices, and other institutions. Yet the early sultans gave these privileges not from a spirit of tolerance, but merely because they looked upon the Christian nations as unclean and therefore unfit to have any contact with the Ottoman administrative and judicial system. The sultans similarly erected the several peoples, such as the Greeks and the Armenians, into separate "millets," or nations, not because they desired to promote their independence and welfare, but because they regarded them as vermin, and therefore disqualified for membership in the Ottoman state. The attitude of the Government toward their Christian subjects was illustrated by certain regulations which limited their freedom of action. The buildings in which Christians lived should not be conspicuous and their churches should have no belfry. Christians could not ride a horse in the city, for that was the exclusive right of the noble Moslem. The Turk had the right to test the sharpness of his sword upon the neck of any Christian.

HENRY I MORGENTHAU,
American Ambassador

http://net.lib.byu.edu/~rdh7/wwi/comment/morgenthau/Morgen22.htm

Well, what benefit was it to the Germans that the Turks were able to carry out a successful mass genocide?

It gave their officers good practice.

@ RonandB
"Why German NATO troops in Turkey?"

Turkey desperately needs Patriot missles to defend itself against missle attack from Syria, or maybe Iran.
They're not going to get them, and can't operate them, without American/NATO supervision, which I'm sure they resent.

"Well, what benefit was it to the Germans that the Turks were able to carry out a successful mass genocide?"

Business, money, power, Turkey was a valuable ally of Germany's.
In the early 20th Century Germany as well as Russia and England were all playing the 'Great Game'.
As Turkey owned the Dardanelles, the access points to the Black Sea, and also the the Bosphorus ( cow crossing ) the only feasible land crossing between Europe and Asia, Turkey was a strategic asset for Germany.
Germany needed passage through Turkey because it had plans to build a railway from Berlin to Baghdad, actually from Gdansk on the North Sea all the way to the Iraqi port on the Persian Gulf, Arabian Sea and on to the Indian Ocean.
Gdansk by the way being the Polish name of the German town of Dansig, Dansig, Hitler's invasion of which ( to protect German nationals ) was the proximate cause of WWII.
Read "The Berlin-Baghdad Express" by Sean McMeekin, very interesting I think, it gives you a sense of actually being there and knowing the people who made history.

Millions of people were slaughtered in WWI, ultimately for money, power, business advantage, and not just in Armenia.
Germany was as blind to the existential threat of Islam in 1909 as they are today.

If anyone wants to correct this one paragraph history of WWI Europe, have at it, it should be easy pickins.

"A former member of the anti-Islamist Dutch politician Geert Wilders’ party and personal friend of his, has declared his conversion to Islam."

Indeed it appears so. Arnoud van Doorn is quite a case, maybe this is why he is no longer a member of the Freedom Party?
Right now and following police wiretapping he is busy talking himself of allegations he has sold drugs to minors and leaked secret official docoments.
Lets wait and see until everything has settled down.

I can well understand if he is looking for "a new beginning".

Thanks for the reply. It makes sense. I didn't think of the Germans in World War I as being totally amoral before, but this type of information shows them segueing right into World War II atrocities.

The Turkish army has a good reputation from the Korean war ...apparently the North Koreans and the Chinese found them very difficult to brainwash by the methods they applied to break Westerners.

Anyway, the German newspaper 'Der Spiegel' emphasizes it is more than mere cultural clashes.

Considering that the Turkish authorities consider Turkish emigrants to be Turkey abroad, this is somewhat petty when we remind ourselves that the Turks themselves asked for Nato assistance.

RonaldB said
"Thanks for the reply. It makes sense. I didn't think of the Germans in World War I as being totally amoral before, but this type of information shows them segueing right into World War II atrocities. "

I don't want to leave the wrong impression.
No doubt, the German government didn't stand in the way of the Armenian genocide.
But it wasn't just Germany. All the nations of Europe lived in a bad neighborhood.
There were plenty of unspeakable atrocities to go around on all sides and vendettas that went on for hundreds and thousands of years.
Much of what we take for settled history is largely the victor's propaganda.
There are plenty of authors who paint Germany in a much more equable ( favorable? ) light, and the English, French and Russians as more responsible for the world wars - Irving, DeGrelle, Buchanan...

America was lucky because it left most of the ethnic divisions and Napoleonic megalomaniacs of Europe behind, although now there are nefarious forces in this country working overtime, out of a misguided sense of altruism or with malice aforethought, to import as many of those problems and divisions as it can, as fast as possible, for the express purpose of destroying our former ethnic, racial, philosophic and linguistic harmony (such as it was ) and the very existence of the US itself.

The history of Europe can't be understood with emotion and morality alone, it requires a massive and hugely technical effort if we're ever going to find a better future.
I dare say, no one can say what the fundamental problem is in Europe, or what the fundamental solution is, that's what we're trying to figure out, but we know that the solution for Europe does not include Islam.

Indeed, Arnoud van Doorn seems to have made the dumbest life choice. However, if the criminal charges he appears to be facing are proved, then it explains his choice of 'religion'.

What better 'religion' for an alleged drug dealer than the one founded by the patron saint of pedophilia, murder and the suppression of human rights.

Clown!

Gunung Semeru wrote:

Graven asks

When is the West going to get a clue? Seriously?

They are not going too (sic).

Below is an extract from

Ambassador Morgenthau,s (sic) Story...
........................................

This is *very* odd. Gunung Semeru sneers that the West is never going to realize the truth about Islam, then quotes the erudite Ambassador Morgenthau—whose work I have read before—who obviously was *very* clear-eyed about the ugliness of Islam.

If everyone had the ambassador's understanding, we would scarcely have a problem in educating Infidels.

nashmi wrote:

A former member of the anti-Islamist Dutch politician Geert Wilders’ party and personal friend of his, has declared his conversion to Islam.

Arnoud van Doorn was a member of Wilders’ right-wing Freedom Party until the end of 2011.
..........................................

Loonwatch is gloating over this—as though an Islamic West wouldn't target them, as well. What tools. Of course, they've got more and more pious Muslims over there these days.

Here's one—a vile "revert" on this story:

Chris (Muslim convert) −
"Almighty ALLAH guides whoever He wills. Truth stands clear from error. May Allah SWT guide Geert Wilders and Pamela Geller too. Let's pray for their guidance."

**Ugh**.

http://www.loonwatch.com/2013/03/geert-wilders-confidante-and-former-far-right-politician-arnoud-van-doorn-converts-to-islam/

Also, does anyone know anything about "nashmi"? I've never seen him post here before, and it is *very* unclear to me what his take on this story is.

Nashmi is merely here for the gloating and perhaps score a few points among his buddies, and from what I have often experienced when I read the claims allegedly copied from the loonwatch comment sections they have not bothered to research the background of their claims one bit.

Chris (Muslim convert) is an interesting case: is there one single word in his effusion which is not a cliché, freeing himself from independent thought?

"G K Chesterton diagnosed the spiritual sickness of Germany, already well advanced in the early 20th century, in an essay he wrote in 1915..."

Also, many decades prior, in the early middle of the 19th century, the great poet and man of letters Heinrich Heine diagnosed much of the same about the Germans of his day, in the context of a rudderless anomie and ennui, unmoored from either spirituality or religiosity, and prey to cynicism and nihilism and of course typically 19th-century afflictions of various forms of neurosis (also indicating, by the way, how profoundly secularized the West has been for a very long time).