Robert Spencer: Jihad in Boston

JihadBoston.jpg

In FrontPage this morning I summarize what we know so far.

It has now been revealed that the Boston Marathon bombers were two Muslims from southern Russia near Chechnya: Tamerlan Tsarnaev, who was killed in a firefight with Massachusetts police early this morning, and his brother Dzhokhar, who as of this writing is still at large.

As more and more material comes to light about the pair, their motivations become clear. On a Russian-language social media page, Dzhokhar features a drawing of a bomb under the heading “send a gift,” and just above links to sites about Islam. Tamerlan’s YouTube page features two videos by Sheikh Feiz Mohammed. According to a report published in The Australian in January 2007, in a video that came to the attention of authorities at the time, Mohammed “urges Muslims to kill the enemies of Islam and praises martyrs with a violent interpretation of jihad.”

Tamerlan also says, “I”m very religious.” He notes that he does not drink alcohol because Allah forbids it: “God said no alcohol,” and that his Italian girlfriend has converted to Islam. Even his name indicates the world from which he comes: Tamerlan Tsarnaev is apparently named for the Muslim warrior Tamerlane. Andrew Bostom wrote in 2005 that “Osama bin Laden was far from the first jihadist to kill infidels as an expression of religious piety”¦.Osama lacks both Tamerlane’s sophisticated (for his time) military forces and his brilliance as a strategist. But both are or were pious Muslims who paid homage to religious leaders, and both had the goal of making jihad a global force.”

Combine all that with the fact that the bombs were similar to IED”s that jihadis use in Afghanistan and Iraq, and that Faisal Shahzad, who tried to set off a jihad car bomb in Times Square jihad car bomber, used a similar bomb, and that instructions for making such a bomb have been published in al-Qaeda’s Inspire magazine, and the motivations of the Tsarnaev brothers are abundantly clear. It is increasingly likely also that they were tied in somehow to the international jihad network, as is indicated by how they fought off Boston police early on Friday with military-grade explosives — where did they get those? And where did they get the military training that they reportedly have, and displayed in several ways during the fight Friday morning?

Yet despite all this, the mainstream media continues to obfuscate the truth. NBC doesn’t see fit to mention any of the brothers” connections to Islam in their profile of them. CNN warns that “it should not be assumed that either brother was radicalized because of their Chechen origins.” And this, of course, follows days of speculation about how the bombings appeared to be the work of “right-wing extremists,” “Tea Partiers,” and the like. According to Victor Medina in the Examiner, “Esquire Magazine’s Charles P. Pierce attempted to link the bombings to right wing extremists similar to Timothy McVeigh, the Oklahoma City bomber. In another, CNN national security analyst Peter Bergen speculated that the type of bomb device could link it to right wing extremist groups.” Salon hoped that the bomber would turn out to be a “white American.”

Will Pierce, Bergen, and all the others who offered similar analyses apologize now? They almost certainly will not — and even worse, they will not be held accountable. No matter how often mainstream analysts are wrong, they never get questioned or jettisoned.

There is more.

Boston jihad bomber's father threatens "all hell will break loose" if son dies
Boston jihad bombers hail from Russia's Caucasus, "breeding ground for terror" where rebels have "close links with al-Qaeda"
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Comments

  1. says

    More connection to Islam, from the uncle

    9:15 a.m.: CBS’s Boston affiliate WBZ interviewed the Tsarnaev brothers’ uncle Ruslan Tsarni. When the station informed him of Tamerlan’s death, Tsarni said the young man “deserved it” and called him a “loser.” Tsarni said he always tried to encourage the boys to focus less on Islam, and more on school, telling them to “be useful. Know why you came to America.”
    http://newsfeed.time.com/2013/04/19/watch-video-of-shootout-between-police-and-boston-bombing-suspect/

  2. says

    How are the Authorities so inept when it comes to connecting the dots? A YouTube page? Come on, how hard is it to scan for this shit and do some checking?

  3. says

    They can post YouTube vids by imams calling for death and jihad against non Muslims and if non muslims say anything derogatory about Islam they get their Account Closed.How’s can the MSM be so amazingly stupid. Their buddies the Muslims despise everything these fools stand for and clearly will happily slaughter them while having wet dreams about virgins

  4. says

    Of course these experts of nothing cannot be jettisoned. They will need them to wring their hands, and wonder where, Oh where!, can such nice boys have learned such horrors?

    There must be someone to suggest it isn’t in the mosque. Someone must be able to stand up, and tell the world, that it is not that they are being indoctrinated at the very least, with the fundamentals of a religion that calls for these specific acts. Or, where guest speakers come from all over the world to praise and give voice to the acts of violent and inhumane men, who kill in the name of Allah. It cannot be the ever present message, sometimes whispered and sometimes shouted, and of which, muslims are told by CAIR, not to speak of what they see and hear there.

    Realities, which all the rest of us must ignore, and deny, lest we offend. Lest we hurt the feeling of those good muslims, who’s only crime was silent consent.

    Since outright lies became the norm for anyone with an agenda or self interest in our media outlets, I’ve never really worried that these people were in any way lacking in job security. It’s the only growth industry America has left, and the credulous are out there, just begging for their wares.

  5. says

    What an irony… at one point of our lives americans were so fond of chechens when Russia stood up to terrorists from there and went to war with them americans were supporting terrorists… and now, to my laughs, it bit them back in their rears. Keep supporting “freedom fighters” and you’ll see more of them coming to your playground.

  6. says

    The media is already tap dancing around it, the why of it, since being a “devout Muslim” can never be the reason it’s being discussed solely in terms of Chechnyan separatism or personal problems, depression, not fitting in… never the obvious, that the devout Muslim believed he was doing worship by waging jihad against the enemies of Allah and earning Paradise in doing so.

    These brothers clearly had military training and were well-armed. Others are involved.

  7. says

    The media are mostly a bunch of uninformed boobs in the matter of Islam. Their laziness in learning about the doctrine of jihad is reprehensible and irresponsible. But no one calls them to account as they spout nonsense about Muslim motives.

    The ‘GRIEVANCE THEORY’ is the media’s usual fallback explanation. They are mostly irreligious and cannot understand a religion devoid of the Golden Rule that demands constant human sacrifice.

  8. says

    Are you folks kidding me??? These guys didn’t necessarily have military training. Such “training” as they obviously had looks to have been gleaned from jihadi websites where they could have learned everything they needed to know about building these sorts of bombs and using handguns. If we didn’t want guys like these to be able to get their hands on ANY guns in order to pull off this shootout, why didn’t we force the Senate to pass more reasonable GUN LEGISLATION, including BACKGROUND CHECKS??? We are in denial about how jihadis are made. We’re also in denial about how the gun and other types of ‘loopholes’ in our society allow men like these to go to the dark side of their religion.

    Do you folks not realize there is a battle going on within Islam as to how to control this jidhadi surge on all fronts? How to control when it’s appropriate and inappropriate to encourage Muslims to do jihad? Do you JihadWatch readers even look at any other Muslim sites where people decry this kind of insanity? You make it sound as if it’s a universal given that Muslims want jihad and it’s not true.

  9. says

    Do you folks not realize there is a battle going on within Islam as to how to control this jidhadi surge on all fronts?

    Who is doing this? Where are the million Mahoundian marches?…Where are the programs to counter Islams hate and discontent with everything not Islamic? You are obfuscating off to a gun control issue…This is not about gun control, your credibility is low, very low…

  10. says

    Robert, you took the words right out of my mouth, the perps are white and they’re Muslims. Islam is no race, but Islam is racist, anti-Semitic and racist towards black people.

    Nasim ben Imam, an ex-Muslim who converted to Christendom (Robert met him) once said in an interview that every practicing Muslim is a potential jihadi equaling terrorist. This guy knows what he’s talking about as he was very close to becoming a terrorist himself. Islam equals Nazism and terrorism, no doubt about that.

  11. says

    @Americana.
    No matter how much you want it not to be true, Islam is an evil ideology and jihad is it’s main purpose.
    Of course, there are Muslims who don’t believe in violent jihad, there are many in fact, but these Muslims fail to understand their own religion. I’ve met many Muslims who don’t understand their own religion. Ask them a simple question about Islam and they can’t answer it. This is because unlike Christians who are encouraged to study the Bible, ordinary Muslims are encouraged to learn the Koran by recital in the original Arabic only and are advised not to try and understand it, leaving that to the experts and the clerics. Many Muslims unfortunately believe their own religion to be peaceful when in reality it isn’t. The terrorists and the hate preachers are all clerics and experts. They preach violence because they understand the true meaning.
    Then of course, there is taqiyya. Don’t forget taqiyya. If you don’t know what taqiyya means please look it up.
    Yes we jihad readers do look at other Muslim sites, I certainly do anyway, and I am aware that there are Muslims who detest using violence, but unfortunately it is wishful thinking on their part. They are believing in an Islam that simply doesn’t exist. They may as well invent a brand new religion and call it by another name.

  12. says

    I cannot wrap my head around why the MSM is convinced these two had to go out of the country for their training. Britain has home-grown terrorists. We don’t? Ask people who live near places like Dearborn if they think you have to go overseas to be radicalized.

  13. says

    jack, sorry, no I’m not a troll. I’m just willing to recognize that the media have no means of addressing all aspects of Islam and jihad within the confines of each and every story. As for me being a troll, why is it I happen to AGREE completely w/Frances Blogg about the fact these Chechen/American guys DIDN’T have to go ANYWHERE for training??? You’re fools if you think each and every homegrown terrorist has to leave this country and create that kind of paper trail for authorities in order to get adequate training to achieve this kind of mayhem. Unfortunately, the amount of training they need is ON THE INTERNET right now. There’s even enough information for them to create a primitive nuclear bomb, a small dirty bomb.

    Islam has a significant call for jihad. I’m not denying that call to jihad. But there ARE Muslims who are calling for an end to this kind of societal violence. How do you think the Indian Muslims in Mumbai felt after the Mumbai hotel bombings and gun battle? How do you think the Muslims living in Bali felt after the Bali bombing? I’ll go collect some web sites for you all since you obviously aren’t willing to concede that there are Muslims who decry jihad. The fact there are seemingly an overwhelmingly greater number who ARE believers in jihad is a very depressing truth. But the truth is there will always be a greater number who aren’t involved in jihad. If this weren’t true, there would be blood running in the streets on the scale of the London bombings and the Madrid bombings and 9/11 EACH and EVERY DAY. The jihadis who commit these acts are a minority but it takes hardly any number at all to achieve a terrorist act on almost any scale.

  14. says

    Many of you are attributing motives to the media that make NO SENSE. I’ll tell you why. In order to speak authoritatively about Chechnya while on camera (or on air or in print), these reporters/talking heads HAVE TO HAVE THE HISTORICAL KNOWLEDGE to share about the Chechnyan situation. In reality, most of these talking heads aren’t likely to know offhand much about the Chechnyan war. Most would need to have their researchers providing them w/material for them to address on air as opposed to being old enough to have been in the news business while the Chechen war was unfolding. Most of their researchers are probably busy w/trying to flesh out these individuals as opposed to chasing other aspects of the story. It’s simply LOGISTICS. There are only X number of reporters to handle the research requirements of a story w/this kind of scope.

    News is a history forward business. Reporters have to develop expertise on the fly when the Chechnya situation has been off their radar for a long time. If they aren’t old enough to have been reporting on the Russian/Chechnya war, they’re not going to be able to speak to the Chechnya aspects of this situation unless they’re given VETTED, RESEARCHED MATERIAL to share w/their audience. You’ll undoubtedly find that more and more stories will develop the Chechnyan aspects of the story over time. Reserve your criticisms about their inadequacies as reporters for a few days from now.

  15. says

    Don’t call someone a troll because they disagree with us. It’s freedom of speech. Let’s not lower ourself to using the same censorship blocking that Leftists use.

    If you meet someone who disagrees with you:
    Educate them, debate with them, and destroy their argument.

    If they don’t listen, can’t argue rationally and use verbal abuse then and only then are they are a troll!

  16. says

    A troll is someone who hijacks a thread so that everyone is addressing her/him and not the topic at hand. Jihad Watch has a long history of Muslim trolls with names like “Americana”.

    This person is not looking to be educated
    and the posts are too incoherent to be called an argument. You can waste your time debating her, knock yourself out.

  17. says

    Not “looking to be educated?” I’m certainly willing to read alternative points of view. I’m simply pointing out the fallacies in your thinking. My posts are too incoherent?? What, you can’t read past the third-grade level? Didn’t take the SATs and go to college? I’m partly British-educated. Sorry if my English is longer than what you’re used to reading. I can certainly shorten up my sentences if you’re challenged by longer sentences. My handle is simply an easy name for me to remember since I was called that in Italy when I was a student there. It’s not as quaint as Blabbery Bob or Simply Simon but whatever… Think of it as propaganda if you well. Nagesh certainly realizes I’m not a troll.

    This is a British womens’ forum that was created after the London bombings. The Muslim women know darn well they’ve got a problem on their hands!

    http://www.wewillinspire.com/index.php/sections/news-view/news-muslim-women-beyond-the-stereotypes

    http://www.nytimes.com/2011/08/03/world/europe/03iht-letter03.html?_r=0

    Then there are quite different voices in the Muslim community ” in Britain, and elsewhere. One example is Inspire, a women’s organization that before the Norwegian horror declared what it called a “jihad against violence.”
    The group says it aims to support and empower Muslim women of all ages and backgrounds, and particularly to educate them so they can counter the arguments of children radicalized by reading on the Internet.
    To date, Inspire has led five workshops on countering the ideology of extremists, with 30 to 35 participants in each session. The effort is aimed at Muslim women, because they raise children.
    “Very often, when women are confronted with religious questions from their children, they don’t know how to answer,” said Sara Khan, 31, a mother of two who has a master’s degree in pharmacy and was encouraged by her father to work in the South Asian Muslim community in Bradford.
    In 2005 and 2006, she was a member of the British Home Office working group tackling extremism and radicalization. Two years ago, she co-founded Inspire.
    With the Internet, Muslim youth can easily be swayed by English-speaking preachers like Anwar al-Awlaki ” a U.S. citizen accused of having inspired the Fort Hood shootings in Texas and the failed Christmas bombing of a Detroit-bound airliner ” or the ideology of Al Qaeda or other radical groups. “Our aim is to give women the knowledge to counter this ideology, and the best way is to use Islam,” Mrs. Khan said.
    Then there are quite different voices in the Muslim community ” in Britain, and elsewhere. One example is Inspire, a women’s organization that before the Norwegian horror declared what it called a “jihad against violence.”
    The group says it aims to support and empower Muslim women of all ages and backgrounds, and particularly to educate them so they can counter the arguments of children radicalized by reading on the Internet.
    To date, Inspire has led five workshops on countering the ideology of extremists, with 30 to 35 participants in each session. The effort is aimed at Muslim women, because they raise children.
    “Very often, when women are confronted with religious questions from their children, they don’t know how to answer,” said Sara Khan, 31, a mother of two who has a master’s degree in pharmacy and was encouraged by her father to work in the South Asian Muslim community in Bradford.
    In 2005 and 2006, she was a member of the British Home Office working group tackling extremism and radicalization. Two years ago, she co-founded Inspire.
    With the Internet, Muslim youth can easily be swayed by English-speaking preachers like Anwar al-Awlaki ” a U.S. citizen accused of having inspired the Fort Hood shootings in Texas and the failed Christmas bombing of a Detroit-bound airliner ” or the ideology of Al Qaeda or other radical groups. “Our aim is to give women the knowledge to counter this ideology, and the best way is to use Islam,” Mrs. Khan said.

  18. says

    Champ, what a GREAT pretense of agreeing! This is the next approach of the lazy bores in this forum who aren’t even willing to read enough to understand where I’m coming from? Agree w/her. That’ll shut her down. Sorry, NOT gonna happen.

    I came to this forum for more information about the Bostonian perspective on local jihadi groups because I am an ex-Bostonian, an EX-NEWTONIAN. In fact. one of the longest running participants in the Boston Marathon, Johnny Kelley used to run past my house on Centre Street in Newton almost every day of the week. I have relatives in Auburndale, Watertown, Wellesley, Newton, West Newton, Haverhill and out in the Berkshires. My oldest sister was in the oil business for years in Saudi Arabia and Bahrain. She also worked in Saudi Arabian higher education for several years. She retired her last college position, thankfully, after the push by Saudi women to attain driving privileges. Why were we all so happy to have her leave the region? Because I’d gotten to the point where I felt a white American woman w/a high profile didn’t stand a chance if jihadis targeted her.

  19. says

    Americana is, of course, a troll, but I would argue that, on occasion, trolls should be answered. It’s a judgment call when to do so and when not to do so, but never answering trolls will let their twisted versions of truth stand unrefuted and the truth needs to be stated front and center now and again.

  20. says

    She’s all over the page isn’t she?

    Blames the two jihadis deadly actions on lax gun control legislation and “loopholes.”

    Then she’s linking to mohammadan supremacists with ovaries sites with the tired “not all muslims condone violent jihad” canard and they’re trying to stop the jihadis!

    She implies Champ is stupid for calling her out as a troll.

    Takes offence at being called an intellectual snob.

    Now she’s linking to memri!

    If ever there was a case for background checks and any sharp, pointy or otherwise dangerous objects…

    Wow. Just wow.

    Poor girl. At least she’s never truly alone with all those friends she has in her mind.

  21. says

    YOU read MEMRI.org, the ORIGINAL ANTI-JIHADIST web site, Istanbul Chick? I’ll believe it when I read it…. Keep smearing that frosting on your cooter, it might eventually lubricate your brain if you try long enough and hard enough.

    Let me just take a minute to do a little research on this site to see if ANY of you folks have ever cited the Middle East Media Research Institute in previous conversations over the decades. If you all were really on top of anti-jihadi stuff, there should be citations from this web site from a decade ago.

  22. says

    That’s a reference by Robert himself, not by one of you lot. I’d EXPECT someone who set up this web site to be aware of MEMRI and subscribe to it. In fact, I’d demand it of him. The rest of you? I’m not so sure you’ve been subscribers or readers of MEMRI for decades as I have been.

    Champ. Wow, you’re a real Champion. Excuse me.

    Either read me and comprehend me or don’t smack me upside the head. I’m NOT EXCUSING jihadists. Despite what other folks are posting on these forums who are obviously more favourably disposed toward the strict jihadi Islamists, I’m **not tolerant** of jihad. I’d like the U.S. and other countries to find a way to SUCCESSFULLY SQUELCH the jidhadi movement. I don’t think some of this is conducive to squelching jihad. I’m not going to be told I’m a snob just because of saying I’ve got British relatives or that my sister worked in the oil business or that I’ve got concerns about jihad that are different from yours. Either respect my perspective or dispute it w/facts and insights. I don’t respond to BS other than by fighting back w/similar munitions. You want me to stop smearing frosting on cooters, UP YOUR GAMES cuz I will play the game however you want it played.

  23. says

    Champ, sorry, no. You’ve behaved like a bunch of thugs. It’s obvious most of you haven’t even bothered to read what I’ve written. I sound like a Muslim apologist so “wham!” (BLANK SO-and-SO) managed to read what I’ve written and seemingly understands my POV without resorting to using rudeness and intellecturally shaming me. I’ve NEVER made this about “me,” YOU ALL DID. Get over yourselves and read my ENGLISH. Oh, and I’m Catholic w/an uncle who was a Catholic priest out on a reservation in North Dakota for years and years. Not even close to being a Muslim. TRY READING ENGLISH before chomping, champ. Enuf said.

  24. says

    That is too simple of a question, Wellington. Besides, there’s no way to eradicate Islam. Like any religion, there are definitely evil aspects to it which some Muslims have taken to a whole ‘nother level of horror. Would it help if they revised the Q’uran? Would it help if jihadi imams were all arrested and imprisoned. I encouraged my sister to leave Saudi Arabia because I feared for her safety. Not only was she educating women, she’s outspoken and a political activist like me. Is that enough condemnation for you folks?

    How many episodes like the shooting and throwing overboard of a wheelchair-bound man like Klinghoffer do I have to remind you folks of to prove I HATE JIHAD and TERRORISM and that I’ve hated this terrorism business for decades? I had a very particular connection to the bombing of the World Trade Center through friends and family in NYC. I HATE TERRORISM. But since we aren’t going to eliminate Islam, how do Muslims reconcile the bad w/the good in their religion? Why is it there are these jihadi flareups periodically? If we figure these issues out collectively perhaps we can stop this kind of bloodthirsty sh*t from happening AGAIN and AGAIN and AGAIN…

  25. says

    Kepha, I posted one moderate, anti-jihad site in another thread. That was one that came out of the London bombings and was set up by mothers who were frustrated their kids were turning to jihad. I’ll make up a list of moderate sites at some point but not today. I’m too angry at being labeled…

    Are there more jihadi sites than moderate Muslim sites? It sure seems so. But considering how Muslims target other Muslims for apostasy for having condemned the actions of some jihadis or for converting to Christianity or whatever, who can blame the moderates for being scared to go against the jihadis? I bet I’m the only one on this board to have read the autobiography by the writer Salman Rushdie who had a fatwah calling for his death. (He had to go into hiding under an assumed name for over a decade which is the title of the book.) Rushdie, of course, is the author of The Satanic Verses which is what earned him the fatwah death sentence.

  26. says

    Champ, on second thought, no, I’ll tell you WHY I wrote the way I did. Because it takes NO EFFORT WHATSOEVER to become competent at making bombs on a certain scale. That’s what I found so frustrating about some of the posts that had me write so strongly against them. If these guys had gone to the Middle East for training they MIGHT have come to the attention of the FBI or the NSA. They didn’t have to go to the Middle East because ALL the ingredients for jihad are available to them in their apartments —- on the web —- from the jihadi stimulation to the ways to make various types of bombs. End of story. I didn’t join in on any web site claiming it was white supremacists or any of the other right wing groups. That should be some indicator I’m not a troll. Or an idiot.

  27. says

    Wellington, wait a minute, Christianity has never done evil in its name? Maybe I’m all wet, but what was the War of the Roses about? (Trick question. One half of my family is British and they had to hide in priest’s holes in their houses when Church of England guys came to take them into custody and, likely, to their deaths.) What was the Spanish Inquisition all about? What was w/the innumerable OTHER points in time where Christianity went a little hogwild w/its physical admonitions (chopping off heads, etc.) to its adherents and those that didn’t adhere to exactly the right brand of Christianity??

    More carnage will occur because of Islam if we don’t come up w/ways and means of mentally interdicting these folks who are heading in the wrong direction… We need the Muslims to be fed up w/this and crush it in their midst. Will they? Who knows…

    Champ, no words. You’re just a (_________ ____). It’s pretty obvious. No need to spell it out for you or anyone else.

  28. says

    You’re right, of course, Wellington. I misspoke. I was thinking of Henry VIII transforming the Catholic Church because he was guilty of the very same transgression as Mohammed —- that one woman is not enough. I didn’t mean the War of the Roses, I meant to refer to Henry VIII but I was typing faster than I was thinking. Doesn’t happen all that often, but when it does it’s a doozy.

  29. says

    But as much as that admission of a mistake counts, I certainly don’t agree w/your argument that Muslim wars are always identical in their jihad component. There are as many different ways wars have been undertaken by Muslims and Muslim nations as has happened w/western countries.

    The only thing that is different at this point in time about the various jihad movements is that there’s the additional element of the recreation of the Um’mah —- the greater Muslim Caliphate of yore. Some of these Muslim jihadi movements are highly dedicated to the recreation of this ancient Caliphate and others are less so. I think this is a tremendously powerful stimulus for some of these individual jihadis. For others, it’s of no importance at all. What’s more scary? That there are individual jihadis who are dedicated to the recreation of the Um’mah vs those jihadis who aren’t interested in anything more than taking over their own countries?

  30. says

    The media and commentators assume the older brother received training overseas, and that’s the only possibility. Maybe that’s the case here, but the training could just as well have been received in one of the Islamist training camps in North America (New York, Virginia, Michigan, ….).

    The U.S. will continue to pay a price for not rolling up the Islamist infrastructure in the country after 9/11, and stopping Muslim immigration.

  31. says

    I have never seen ‘Americana’ posting anywhere at jihadwatch until now. Until this blow-up in Boston.

    Very curious, that.

    I believe in K.I.S.S.

    I agree with Conor Cruise O’Brien, Jacques Ellul, John Quincy Adams, and a certain Patrick L Moore who although less well known than the others, summed everything up brilliantly in his essay ‘From Cold War to Guerra Fria’.

    On the offchance that Americana is what she says she is, and not a Muslimah in a mask attempting to confuse, distract, evade, and ‘split the camp’ into the bargain, and for the benefit of anyone lobbing in here in the wake of the Boston jihad ghazi raid, who is currently new to this site and this subject, I will link each of those four classic items that I have just mentioned above.

    Here is Conor Cruise O’Brien.

    http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/the-lesson-of-algeria-islam-is-indivisible-1566770.html

    CONOR CRUISE O’BRIEN
    Friday 6 January 1995
    The lesson of Algeria: Islam is indivisible

    And here is how he begins:

    “Fundamentalist Islam” is a misnomer which dulls our perceptions in a dangerous way.

    “It does so by implying that there is some other kind of Islam, which is well disposed to those who reject the Koran.

    “There isn’t.
    Islam is a universalist, triumphalist and political religion. It claims de jure dominion over all humanity; that is God’s will. The actual state of affairs, with unbelievers of various sorts dominating most of the world, is a suspension of God’s will and a scandal to the faithful. The world is divided between the House of Islam and the House of War, meaning the rest of us.
    “For more than two centuries now, the House of War has been in the ascendant, and the House of Islam has been abased.

    “The remedy for this unnatural and intolerable state of affairs is jihad.

    “Jihad is defined as “the religious duty imposed on all Muslims to wage war upon those who do not accept the doctrines of Islam”. The Prophet Mohamed himself not merely preached but waged jihad. God’s word, dictated to the Prophet and preached by him, is binding on all Muslims, and his example is their inspiration.

    “In the glorious centuries of expansion, the jihad carried Islam from Arabia, to the west as far as the Atlantic; to the north as far as Vienna; to the south as far as the Sahara and down the east coast of Africa to Madagascar; and to the east across Persia and the Indian subcontinent into part of China and Indonesia.

    “What is going on today in the Muslim world is not the advent of some aberrant thing called Islamic fundamentalism but a revival of Islam itself – the real thing – which Western ascendancy and Westernised post-Muslim elites no longer have the capacity to muffle and control. The jihad is back.”…

    Recommended for anyone new, currently reading over my shoulder, now or in the future.

    SEcond, astute French sociologist, Jacques Ellul, in the foreword he wrote to Bat Yeor’s monumental historical tome, ‘The Decline of Eastern Christianity Under Islam’:

    http://www.dhimmi.org/Foreword.html

    He states flatly, of Islam – and it is his considered and educated judgement, not a snap judgement – that it is “fundamentally warlike”. (In that, the erudite Frenchman concurs with Sir Winston Churchill who, in his book ‘The Story of the Malakand Field Force’, calls Islam “the religion of blood and war”).

    Third, Andrew Bostom’s discussion of what that great American statesman, John Quincy Adams, understood and said about Islam:

    http://archive.frontpagemag.com/readArticle.aspx?ARTID=11283

    “John Quincy Adams Knew Jihad”.

    Among other things, JQA was well aware of the long, long war made from the south by the Muslims against Christian Russia. His sympathies were with the Russians.

    Fourth, Patrick L Moore, a lapidary essay on Jihad, written in 1994.

    http://www.ewtn.com/library/ISSUES/GUERRA.HTM
    FROM “COLD WAR” TO GUERRA FRIA?
    Patrick L. Moore

    Print it off and keep it. Impeccably scholarly.

    Sample excerpt (print it off and pin it to the fridge and re-read daily):

    “There are five especially critical aspects about Islam’s doctrine of jihad which must be brought out to properly understand the significance of Islam as it relates to the United States and the West (and, for that matter, to every other non-Muslim society assailed by Jihad – dda).

    ” In summary, the meaning of jihad in its primary sense is military and coercive;

    “it is central to the universalist doctrine of the Islamic belief system;

    “its operational aim is political domination of non-Islamic territories (i.e. rather than forced conversion);

    “it is offensive or aggressive in nature in the first instance (and not merely “defensive”);

    “and, finally, jihad is continuous in character (i.e. pending the ultimate victory of the forces of Islam)…”.

  32. says

    I don’t see Americana as a troll. That’s an extreme and ungenerous characterization. I don’t agree with various of her views. But I don’t see it as a huge sin that she started by challenging people here. She didn’t call names. Others started in on her much more aggressively and insultingly than anything she said.

    What’s wrong is to call someone a troll for not perfectly towing the line. What’s wrong is to use ad hominem and tell people to get lost, and accuse them of giving offense, when in fact it is we who have taken offense far too easily. This kind of response to a person like Americana really hurts the cause of educating people about Islamic totalitarianism. If someone needs education, you don’t call them a troll — not unless they are really proved a person of ill-will and bad faith — and not necessarily even then. And anyone who says Americana has been proved a person of bad faith on this thread is just dead wrong. You people are hurting yourselves and your cause by this kind of uncharitable unwelcoming reaction.

  33. says

    Bernard Lewis, eminent historian of Islam and the Middle East, says Islam imposes, without limit of time or space, the duty to subjugate non-Muslims

    In The Political Language of Islam, p. 73:

    “…it is the duty of those who have accepted them [Allah’s word and message] to strive unceasingly to convert or at least to subjugate those who have not. This obligation is without limit of time or space. It must continue until the whole world has either accepted the Islamic faith or submitted to the power of the Islamic state.”

    Quoting Islam

  34. says

    Kind of like having bees living in your head, this Americana.

    Jihad is Islam. Shari’a is Islam.
    They won’t be getting rid of them anytime soon.

    Einstein is supposed to have said “If I had one hour to save the world, I would spend 55 minutes defining the problem and only five minutes finding the solution.” The problem is to know the problem, the rest will follow.

    —-“God is in heaven and you are on earth, so let your words be few” Amen to that.

  35. says

    No, I’ve never posted on this particular forum before though I’d read it regularly, but I read it today specifically to hear about this event and participate on the forum about ways of stopping this sh*t. I’ve preferred to emphasize MEMRI as my source for Muslim terrorism news because it’s got international information prepared by regional experts and it’s got translated articles of original articles from the various Muslim countries. As I mentioned on one of the current threads, I said I was a Newton, MA resident up until the age of 27 when I moved out of state. If that’s not enough *factual rationale* for reading this forum, I don’t know what is! What, you think that just because I appeared here today that I must be a troll??? Have I written anything that says, Praise the Lord, these boys done good!#$!@$ Godalmighty, I never thought my English was vague enough to set off this kind of firestorm!

    It isn’t obvious how much time I’ve spent reading about terrorist issues over the years??? How many of you folks remember the elderly Jewish man Klinghoffer being tossed over the side of his cruise ship after being shot or the American sailor who was shot on board a hijacked American plane and then thrown out the passenger door? I’ve been watching terrorists since before the 1972 Olympics so give me a break. You’re not the only people in the world who are trying to figure out how to stop the bloodletting. Just because I don’t use the punchy little sound bites you folks do doesn’t mean I’m a Muslim apologist for extremist Islam. Use your hearts if you can’t use your brains.

  36. says

    On page 222 (326 in the Arabic) of the earliest Muslim biography of Muhammad, Muhammad agrees with Abu jahl that those who do not follow Muhammad will be “slaughtered”:

    Abu jahl said to them: “Muhammad alleges that if you follow him you will be kings of the Arabs and the Persians. Then after death you will be raised to gardens like those of the Jordan. But if you do not follow him you will be slaughtered, and when you are raised from the dead you will be burned in the fire of hell.” The apostle [Muhammad] came out to them with a handful of dust saying: “I do say that.”

    Quoting Islam

  37. says

    Well, I can understand NOW why I was received as a troll, trach. It was, at least in part, the fact I posted under the handle Americana. I thought it would be sort of an all-American gesture to pick it because I was called “la ragazza Americana” when I was an art student in Italy. As a former Newton, MA resident, I had no clue I wouldn’t be regarded as a fellow Bostonian. If I’d known that handles that sounded suspiciously progagandish would be immediately regarded as signifying a troll, I obviously wouldn’t have chosen it.

    I’m WELL AWARE of the tenets of Islam. I’m also well aware of the rigidity and extremism inherent in Islam and just how domineering the religion can be when it’s given governance over a country. There’s only been one country that has ever had a government that somewhat tempered Islam and that was Turkey. There was a Turk named Mohammed Attaturk who somehow managed to install a secular state in Turkey. The secular Turkey is under attack now by extremists and Islamists. Will they win and end up controlling Turkey, who knows?

    As I wrote in another post, there are two different scales to the Islamist threat. There’s a threat on the individual level of each nation being subsumed by extremist Islam and there’s the far less likely threat of the recreation of the Um’mah across the Middle East and Europe. I can see the likelihood of many countries, one by one, being swallowed up by extremist Islam as their Muslim populations increase and take political control. I don’t see the recreation of the Um’mah as being very likely because of the massive infighting among the various Muslim sects. I just can’t see the successful war (or, more likely, the successful SERIES OF WARS) that would be needed to reinstate Muslim rule over such a large and diverse geographic area. Am I fearful of extremist Islam? Certainly, I am. Why wouldn’t I be? I’m a Catholic woman and an outspoken one at that.

  38. says

    Champ, once again you live up to your handle! Carry on, ________. Why don’t you take your own advice and reread what I’ve written?

  39. says

    Americana, have you had a chance to read Spencer’s new book on the relation (and huge gulf) between Catholicism and Islam?

  40. says

    trach, I’ve already written about most of the things you posted in your last post although you picked a far jazzier graphic style! I’d posted I’m aware Muslims who’ve left Islam and converted to B’hai or Christianity or another religion are threatened w/death. I’ve indicated how intransigent and inflexible and idiotic Islam’s tenets are…. I’ve also made it very clear I understand that Islam demands the intertwining of religion and government w/Sharia law in use; that there’s only ever been one successful secular Muslim country (Turkey). I understand the geopolitical fears about the resurgence of Islam (specifically, in Europe).

    So what is it about my posts that seems to be suspect? (Other than my handle of course!) What, the fact I don’t take the time to go retrieve hadiths to sprinkle in my posts makes me look less educated on the matter than you folks? What, I don’t happen to go for the most bloodthirsty condemnation? What’s the EARLIEST terrorist act ALL OF YOU REMEMBER??? I’d love to find out just how many decades you all have been working on your anti-jihad viewpoints. (You know, as opposed to me who sounds like such an anti-jihad neophyte compared w/you folks who do quote hadiths.) All of you write out your earliest recollection of a terrorist event. Let’s see some dates and historical perspective to put each of us on the chart for how long they’ve been watching terrorism around the world. You can’t use material that someone else has regurgitated for you, but your OWN PERSONAL EXPERIENCE w/terrorism.

    Champ, I’m not going to address you again. You’re beyond the pale.

  41. says

    No, trach, I haven’t read his new book. There are only so many hours in the day but I will read it if you consider it a must read. However, I’ll warn you, it’s clear to me what the potentials for incompatibility are between the two religions, never mind the incompatibility of our form of representative government and our legal system w/the same ‘social’ elements under Islam. In order for Muslims to secularize their countries, they have to be willing to disconnect from their religion in ways that aren’t done. Their intransigence and adherence to Islamic historical standards is something they have to learn to jettison or otherwise adapt in fashions that, so far, they’ve failed at doing.

    We gave Iraqis an (im)perfect opportunity to install a democratic government that would operate in a secular fashion when we crushed Saddam Hussein. Why do I call it an ‘imperfect opportunity?’ Because we ignored the realities of Iraqi society. Our deposing Saddam and giving Iraqis a chance at a democratic government might have stood a better chance if they didn’t have clans and didn’t have Muslim sects. They couldn’t manage to overcome those twin challenges. Why? It’s not as simple as saying “well, that’s Islam for you!” There are Afghan farmers in tiny little backwaters who have insisted on sending their daughters to school because they want them to have a better life. Then along come some Islamists and the poor Afghani girls have acid thrown in their faces or a bomb is tossed in their direction… (Several disfigured Afghan girls have been treated here in Boston.) If there are Afghan farmers out in the sticks who want a secular country, that’s a sign there are Muslims who want secular Islam. How do we ensure these Afghan farmers and other folks in all Muslim countries who want to go the secular route get the upper hand?

  42. says

    I’ll point out that you started all the name-calling and putdowns, Champ. I simply followed suit when I got tired of not being believed that I am an actual former Bostonian and Newton resident. (I’ve even got a cousin who’s running for office in the upcoming election. She lives near Our Lady Help of Christians church which is located on Washington Street almost at the border of Newton and West Newton. That was my family’s church. My mother’s funeral was held there. Still think I’m a Muslim? God, help me, I’m going to bust a gut laughing.) Don’t pretend you didn’t pull the bitchiness FIRST and that you didn’t CONTINUOUSLY UPGRADE THE TYPE OF INSULTS you were dishing out to me. I’ve never been pushed so rudely and ended up being this rude in return. I’m sort of ashamed of myself then I re-read the stupidities and I say, nope, I took the right approach.

  43. says

    Ladies, ladies, please call a truce.

    Champ, you being the lovely, gentle (except when it comes to islam!) lady that we know and love so well, and a strong, exemplary Christian Woman, are primed to take the first step with Americana. Let’s give her the benefit of the doubt and believe that she didn’t realize that her seeming neophyte observations and air of condescension rankled the finer sensibilities of well-heeled, longtime counter-jihad posters here at JW. It can’t hurt to try.

    Americana, you came on a little strong for many of us who have been here and known each other for years – in my case, eleven of them. Most of us here are comfortably familiar with each other and EXTREMELY well-read on a wide variety of islamic subjects. We warmly welcome newcomers who desire education or the companionship of like-minded fellows, but we are frequently confronted with ignorant trolls and muslim supremacists and apologists, many of whom pose as Christians only to subsequently reveal their true beliefs and intentions. It’s incredibly tiresome to deal with those deliberately ignorant of islam and adamant that we are WRONG in our well-researched assessments of that vile ideology. So we’re a little punchy. If your intentions are genuine, please forgive us and stick around, learn and contribute. You will be welcome.

    I’ve noticed that strong personalities here at JW will often clash initially, but once the anger has settled, they become fast friends and allies. I’m hoping it will be the same for the two of you.

    What do you say?

  44. says

    Okay Americana is coming unglued now …

    Here she writes in response to me:

    “Don’t pretend you didn’t pull the bitchiness FIRST”

    Well, she’s lying; actually, my very first comment @1:16 was in response to poster “jackdiamond”. Here’s my comment:

    “Americana is a troll. Ignore him.

    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

    Excellent idea, Jack.”

    Jackdiamond wrote that Americana is a troll, and I agreed that it was a good idea to ignore her.

    Americana then wrote this nasty put-down to me @1:22PM in response:

    “Yes, Champ, ignore her. She might challenge more than two of your brain cells to put thoughts together.”

    So in truth, Americana offered the first put-down. She then continued to put me down ad nauseum. Everyone can read her other nasty remarks on this thread since they serve as a record–the ugly remarks that she “took the right approach” on.

    And then notice how she treated other posters; namely, Traeh. He was only trying to be nice to her, yet she treated even him like dirt.

    So whether or not this person is a muslim, or not, is not 100% certain yet, but one thing IS certain; she’s a right-fighter with a major chip on her shoulder who’s very unstable.

  45. says

    You are amazing, Champ. Here you go trying to enlist a bunch of other people on the thread into believing I INSULTED THEM when I did no such thing!#$!#$ I didn’t treat trach like dirt. I simply said that I was quite aware of the aspects of Islam about which he was posting and that if he’d read my earlier posts, he’d realize that I was, in fact, aware of much of the information he’d posted. ***He acknowledged as much in his next to last post to me.** If he believed I’d insulted him, you don’t think he wouldn’t have fired off at me??? SHEESH.

    As for who struck first, what do you consider this if NOT a PUTDOWN? This was your first comment directed at me and being called a troll, especially on such a hot button political site, is tantamount to being accused of treason and you KNOW IT! Of course, I’ve got the right to accuse you at that point of not reading for comprehension. Anyone who knows me would understand the CONTENTS of my posts!!!

    Champ replied to comment from jackdiamond | April 19, 2013 1:16 PM | Reply
    Americana is a troll. Ignore him.

    So once again, Champ, stop pulling this “Oh, I’m the innocent here! Look what she wrote!#$!@$!@$@!” You were the first to ratchet up your remarks by bringing up a wet cooter and EVERY OTHER NASTY SIMILAR REMARK. The fact I’m a creative enough writer to top your initial crudities should have made you think twice about upping the ante. But did it make you think twice??? Nope. As for keeping on w/this BS about me not being a Christian, my patron saint is St. Francis of Assisi. Luckily for me, I spent some of my art school education in Assisi and stayed a few nights in the caves just outside town where St. Francis and his accolytes lived. No, I’m probably not quite as tame of a Christian as you seem to be, but I’m somewhere on the Catholic scale. I’m not ashamed of the degree of my belief nor what contents of Catholicism I stress in my private life.

    in the meantime, I’m glad of a truce w/everyone else. I’d prefer people to reread my remarks and understand them before reengaging me w/the idea that I’m a troll or anything else in a similar vein. I’ve been disgusted and distraught over this terrorism sh*t for DECADES. As obviously some of you have been. It’s time to figure out what to do.

  46. says

    By the way, Champ, the quote below is typical of your behaviour in this thread and if this is ALWAYS your way of winning arguments, better rethink your game. I’ve been baptised, celebrated my First Communion, celebrated my Confirmation and have a patron saint. I pray to St. Christopher when I lose my car keys or the dogs. I’ve got some water from Lourdes. I visited Fatima in Spain when I went there. (I’m interested in the saints if that’s not obvious.) I’m from a British-Irish Catholic American family. My father met my mother when he was hospitalized w/the onset of multiple sclerosis contracted from the Australian wool used in the U.S. army uniforms of WW II. My mother was a British nurse who took care of him in hospital. She was a war bride. Three members of my father’s immediate family participated in D-Day and one was so badly shot up in his groin he never married or had children. My father was returned to his Signals Corps. unit and helped liberate a concentration in Belgium. I’m as American or as Christian as ANYONE ELSE on this forum.
    ___________________________________________________________________

    Champ: “So whether or not this person is a muslim, or not, is not 100% certain yet; but what IS certain is she’s a right-fighter with a major chip on her shoulder who’s very unstable.”
    __________________________________________________________________

    I’d suggest that someone who pulls the ABOVE kind of DOUBTING THOMAS BS tactics, a slam-bam style that you’ve REPEATLEDLY displayed in this discussion, is guilty of the very instability, etc. you’re trying to offload onto me. Up your game intellectually rather than these underhanded emotional cheap PSY-OPS shots and you might have more credibility. Hallelujia!!! That’s off my chest!! (Even my Catholic priest uncle Father Al would agree this ‘Hallelujia’ was appropriate given the circumstances. Then again, he’s got a sense of humour.)

  47. says

    Coming in on the end of this thread, I agree with everyone here who characterised this ‘Americana’ either as a troll, or someone who is so hysterical and unhinged, she might as well be one.

    Firstly, she appears to have no conception of her own rudeness and aggressiveness, as evinced by her attitude in her **first** post.

    Secondly. Her vicious tirades against Champ. It was actually jackdiamond who first suggested she was a troll, not Champ. Champ simply agreed with jackdiamond. And it was Istanbul Chick who referred to ”frosting on cooters”, not Champ. And then she has the gall to accuse Champ of a lack of reading comprehension !

    Thirdly. None of her posts address the fact, that as Wellington so neatly stated;

    ” You just don’t get it, do you? Well, here it is: **So-called radical Islam is just Islam and so-called moderate Islam is Islam in denial**.” (my emphasis: Jan).

    She claims to have a deep knowledge of islam, but doesn’t grasp this very basic fact.

    **And** she comes on a forum such as this, where the majority of commenters **do** have a very deep knowledge of islam, and tries to tell us we don’t know what we’re talking about !

    She posts links to a muslim women’s site, which is supposedly trying to stop jihad. But **they** are in denial of the fact that violent jihad is **intrinsic** to islam. They’re trying to pretend what she’s trying to pretend.

    She refuses to get to grips with the fact that islam is **evil** at the core, evinced by the psychopath ‘prophet’, mohammed.

    She seems to be trying to argue that these evil murdering brothers wouldn’t have been able to make a bomb, if guns and bullets weren’t available in the US. At least, I **think** that’s her argument; her posts are so all over the place, interspersed with anecdotes about her family, it’s difficult to be sure.

    If she’s not a mohammedan dementor in a mask, then possibly she’s a deluded kumbaya type leftist, who is so focused on what she wants, gun control, that she mixes it up with jihadist murderers, whilst at the same time saying, yes, jihad’s a problem in islam, but hey, there are some nice muslim women who’re trying to stop it. Which means what ? Absolutely nothing, since violent jihad is **intrinsic** to islam.

    Plus, she loses it very quickly, then immediately goes into full spitting, screeching hate mode, hurling invective at Champ in particular, for agreeing with jackdiamond she’s a troll. Istanbul Chick said she was also, but she doesn’t go after jackdiamond, or Chick, just Champ.

    Why ? She says she’s a Catholic. If she’s read this forum with any regularity, then she’ll know that Champ is a Christian.

    We’ve had dementors and useful idiots on here before, who claimed to be Christian, until the mask slipped.

    Whoever, and whatever she is, she’s rude, aggressive, bombastic and condescending, and I *really* don’t like her.

  48. says

    You’ve all gotta admit, the cooter remark was really (literally) below the belt and it did set the tone for all following exchanges. I was so upset over being labeled in SUCH CRUDE WAYS I didn’t keep names and remarks straight. (Pity party for Charm and for me.) If you’re unable to see how THAT PARTICULAR REMARK would upset a Catholic woman from Newton, no less, who’d come to this web site to get Bostonian experiences and knowledge of the bombing in addition to what I was gleaning from the Boston Globe and from family still in nearby towns, then there’s no hope.

    You honestly think challenging me about being a former Newtown/Boston resident when I obviously exhibited an intimate familiarity w/the locales was the way to go? Why not simply ask me trick questions about the Boston area???? EASY PEASY. This sh*t was all going down when I’m looking at the maps being posted on the Boston Globe site wondering if family members are safe, if runners I know in the race are safe? WHY does anyone here think I’d BOTHER POSTULATING (((in the guise of a secret jihadi Wahabist w/an anti-right wing grudge on her shoulder))) that these guys might have gone to MIT to plant bombs and that’s when the MIT policeman was shot??? Really, you want to call me bombastic and rude given the above sentence??? Did anyone else on this site attempt to connect the possible dots about what these guys were doing at MIT? They sure weren’t picking up lattes!

  49. says

    Jan, I’ll clarify a few things for you since it’s obvious you’re conflating some of my remarks.

    I linked to the moderate indonesian Muslim web site simply to indicate to this community that Indonesian Muslims don’t HAVE A CLUE about HOW TO GET A HANDLE ON JIHAD. (Sound familiar? We don’t either.) These women understand full well it’s a totally undesirable tenet of Islam and they don’t have a means of protecting their children from exposure to those who promote it. Whether it’s promoted at the local mosque or on the internet, these women feel helpless to counter its effects. They’re FLOUNDERING just as the ENTIRE WORLD is floundering w/trying to eliminate jihadist thinking. The sad fact is the internet grants this kind of material eternal life.

    As for my comment about the bomb’s explosive material being gunpowder, that’s a fact. I also happened to mention they could just as easily have created a bomb using other household chemicals but that would have required more expertise than they had time to develop. (Someone obviously missed my remark about other chemical triggers and said I was merely being an anti-gun nut.) As a friend who’s a chemistry teacher and ex-3M research chemist said, “These guys took the lazyboy approach to internet bombmaking. It’ll be really scary when someone sets their mind to something really big.” Clear as mud?

  50. says

    Oh, I just realized you guys had me convinced I’d mistakenly (on first reference) ADDRESSED Charm rather than Istanbul Chick after Istanbul Chick said something about my cooter and me being a cupcake. I’d replied to IstChick w/the following @ 4/19/2:32 p.m: “Well, Istanbul Chick, don’t let any of your well-reasonsed (or should that be WELL-SEASONED??) frosting get on your greasy little cooter!!” So I did get it right the first time around and only afterward got off track…. Ahhh.

    Champ, I’m getting real, real tired of your ______ JHS demeanor. So much for you observing the truce!!! You always try to jump on bandwagons when someone offers you a free ride?? You always try to do the intellectual end run instead of tackling people head on?

    You’ve both revived the question of my not being a genuine Bostonian, w/no knowledge whatsoever of Islam, and w/no personal connections to this Boston marathon massacre by quoting Jan’s wacked JHS post above. Jan claims ‘I’m demented’ and ‘all over the place’ because I tried sharing my family details and connections to the area w/you all in an attempt to give you my background. Well, that’s worked out sooooo GREAT w/Jan now claiming I’m demented for doing so as well as various Islamobabe wisecracks…. BARF.

    How’s this for clarity:

    **Stating my family connections to the Boston area should have been perceived as a shout-out I’m a native Bostonian. If there aren’t enough details in what you already know, please feel free to ask me about Cape Cod, about the North Shore and South Shore (I lived in Scituate, a lobstering town as a kid), about the Superfund sites in the area, about surf fishing at Plum Island for striped bass w/a Newton neighbor …

    **Stating repeatedly that Islam has failed to find some means of eliminating jihad from its tenets should have been perceived as knowledge of what makes Islam such a dangerous creed.

  51. says

    For the sake of comparison, here’s a reprise of IC’s post that really pissed me off. I’d say my cupcake frosting response was MORE THAN JUSTIFIED by this below. (Your decision may vary.)

    @ 2:11 p.m. on 4/19,
    _______________________________________________________________

    Istanbul Chick wrote:

    Ignore her, Champ.

    She’s a snob getting her cooter all wet talking down to the serfs.

    Her pleasure in life is baiting those she deems beneath her.

    Ignore her and let her prattle on to herself.
    ________________________________________________________________

    So, let’s have a vote here, who chose the route of BITCHIN’ BAIT BABE first and how would you have responded to the above post??

  52. says

    Please, everyone …

    Lets get back to the main topic. This thread is not about Americana, and I’m sorry that I’ve enabled her efforts.

  53. says

    gravenimage, you very conveniently MISSTATED that I simply returned the COOTER REMARK w/a touch of frosting in response to the ORIGINAL extremely crude remark from Istanbul Chick. As I posted Istanbul Chick’s post in its entirety, I don’t expect legitimate posters such as yourself to IGNORE THAT FACT.

    As for what I’ve written about Islam, you may or may not agree w/my evaluation of how badly the various branches of Islam are controlling the dissemination of jihadi material. So what? Your not understanding or, worse, deliberately misstating my POV doesn’t negate the fact I DON’T AGREE w/jihad. As for saying there is legitimate vs illegitimate, wacked jihad, obviously there have been wars where jihad has been waged that were legitimate wars. There are historic instances where legitimate jihad was waged. These instances would be the EQUIVALENT of our western hemisphere (legitimate/unavoidable) wars such as WW II. Is the POTENTIAL INHERENT in the concept of jihad for Muslim extremists to wield it however they want and feel justified and godly while doing so??? Sadly, they believe this across a wide spectrum.

    Is there wacked, ILLEGITIMATE jihad where everyone is a target whether they are civilians or not? That’s what’s being successfully proselytized across all the internet jihadi BBs. Obviously there is illegitimate jihad because we wouldn’t be experiencing decade after decade after decade of the most incredible brutality where Muslim extremists keep upping the ante and reaching for the next most horrific means of mass killing they can devise. We wouldn’t have had the airplane exploding over Scotland courtesy of Moammar Gaddhafi and then, however many decades later, have jihadis realize that, Hey, fully loaded jetliners are MOBILE BOMBS!!! Let’s use them against some really important targets like the World Trade Center and the White House and the Pentagon!!!

    So what if I blunder over a man’s name? Mustafa vs Mohammad… OMG, such an egregious error! I blundered over ‘Newton’ and ‘Newtown’ for pete’s sake!! Mistakes are human. Live w/it.

  54. says

    gravenimage —- Viz your last post. I had ALREADY MENTIONED that Turkey is losing its secularism as the Islamists are making political inroads. I’ve said this political undermining of countries is the most challenging aspect of what’s going on w/political Islam.

    My understanding is the TWO MAGAZINES of the same name ARE NOT THE SAME. The women’s magazine is a local production, the jihadi-brainchild “INSPIRE” is an internationally disseminated magazine that was designed as a recruitment and educational tool to reach European and American Muslims and other international Muslim groups. Please correct me if I’m wrong… I’m off to check that myself since you’ve made me question it. As far as I know, they’re not the same magazine, they’re entirely different but, unfortunately, they share the same name.

  55. says

    “It has now been revealed that the Boston Marathon bombers were two Muslims from southern Russia near Chechnya: Tamerlan Tsarnaev, who was killed in a firefight with Massachusetts police early this morning, and his brother Dzhokhar, who as of this writing is still at large.” — headline

    Boston police and the FBI worked tirelessly in apprehending these two muslim terrorists and bringing some closure to the Boston bombing. Bravo to both!

    Of course more tireless work still needs to be done in capturing those behind this heinous crime.

    Hey and the old saying that there’s no rest for the wicked …well, I’m here to state that there’s no rest for the righteous either, so consider yourself warned, mohammedan SOA’S! Your days are numbered.

  56. says

    What have I disagreed w/in the above? I’ve never given this forum a rundown of what categories the various Muslim wars have fallen into. But, just as w/western civilization, there have been Muslim wars that were justified just as WW II was justifiable for our nation. If wars are never justifiable, then how do you categorize all the battles between medieval principalities in Europe? You just pretend all that bloody poltical messiness didn’t happen, that they simply were feuds undertaken by the Hatfields and McCoys of Europe? That’s sure convenient!! Takes western civilization right off the hook…

    There may well be a far higher proportion of disreputable jihad over the centuries. Certainly Islam had disgusting ways of incorporating other religions into their subservient population if they conquered a country. **Either you chose to convert, paid a poll tax for being an infidel or another nation of The Book, or you had your head chopped off… Great choices there, don’t you think?!#$!**

    But you have to recognize that as a woman from Newton (a Boston suburb), my tendency is to NEVER ALLOW ANYTHING ADMIRABLE to be said about this form of jihad attack. What is so difficult for you to understand about that line in the sand? This attack was OUTRIGHT BRUTALITY. I’m sick of this kind of terrorism and I want solutions found ASAP (oops, I capitalized something again)…

  57. says

    Champ, apologize and then reestablish the truce which CGW called for (that you decided to break via yourself and surrogates) and then we can speak again. Otherwise we’ve got nothing to say to each other.

  58. says

    I find it very telling that Americana will not answer a simple question and then demands a truce and an apology that I never agreed to in the first place; and my reading comprehension is bad? Hmm.

    Who *else* do we know that demands apologies and behaves very aggressively? Anyone care to venture a guess?

  59. says

    No, traeh, I’ve read more of his articles rather than his books. I am kind of out in the sticks on a small farm and tend not to order books over the internet. I only recently got myself a Nook so I can get electronic books easily. He’s got so many books at this point, I’ve always wondered if it’s important to read them in order.

    As for this most recent book’s premise —- the culture clash between the two religions — it’s a given, so what additional insight and reinforcement of that do I need to read? Sure, it’s this man’s POV but would it be radically different from my own? Somehow, I doubt it. The whole Muslim claim of supremacy over Christianity and Judaism is laughable if it weren’t so insidious…

  60. says

    What can I say???? Hahahahahahahahahaahaha! These types of posts are so damn sicko funny, it’s not funny! All the snakes St. Patrick supposedly banished from Ireland have ended up in this forum. Yeah, bite me is the appropriate phrase at this point… Make sure you use your fangs next time ‘cuz so far, you haven’t even hit a nerve.

  61. says

    Sorry I’ve come in late; but I had no internet access yesterday (oops, on the 19th).

    Wow! I’ve been reading this thread; and it’s taken well over an hour to do so. You mean to tell me that this individual was still at it 36 hrs. later? Boy, that takes some energy!

    Hi to Champ, Istanbul_Chick, gravenimage and to all the rest. I am glad to see that this particular crisis in Boston (the jihadi crisis, not the verbiage crisis) is over.

    Come to think of it, I’m glad the verbiage crisis has passed as well. I hope you are all well. Bye for now…

  62. says

    Interesting.

    I observe that a clear, simple question, politely phrased, requiring a simple yes or no answer, was not answered.

    My advice to any person who may have lobbed in here via google, and may have – why, I don’t know…curiosity?…persevered to this point.

    **Go right back up to the top and re-read the posted article**.

    Which I have just done, myself.

  63. says

    I don’t think that Americans ever “so fond of chechens when Russia stood up to terrorists from there and went to war with them americans were supporting terrorists” Americans never supported Chechen terrorism in Russia.

    The more accurate statement would be that Americans were critical of Russian counter-activities that exceeded the level of violence that Americans are ‘comfortable’ with.

    Perhaps the day will come when Americans might not be so critical. Sadly, that day would be after the deaths of many more Americans.

  64. says

    “‘loopholes’ in our society allow men like these to go to the dark side of their religion”

    Well, Americana, what line separates the light and dark sides of their religion, then? What line did these two cross, exactly, from “nice boys” to violent jihadists. Which passages from Qur’an and the Sunnah of Muhammad are reserved for “radicals” and “extremists”?

    “How to control when it’s appropriate and inappropriate to encourage Muslims to do jihad?”

    So, when IS it appropriate? And in which country’s? Is it ever appropriate in America?

    “You make it sound as if it’s a universal given that Muslims want jihad and it’s not true.”

    As you are apparently referring to violent jihad–as carried out in Boston–you are generally correct, at least as it relates to Muslims in America.

    But, how many of America’s 2-3 million Muslims DO want it?

    1%
    5%
    20%

    More?

  65. says

    You wrote: ‘ We’re also in denial about how ….in our society (we) allow men like these to go to the dark side of their religion.’

    Dark side of their religion…?!! You mean there’s a light side to Islam?

    Islam is pitch black, from A – Z. Read Al Qur’an! It’s choc-a-bloc with threats, murder, racism, misogyny and abuse!

  66. says

    Good grief, what a load of verbiage.

    “Americana” wrote:

    Do you folks not realize there is a battle going on within Islam as to how to control this jidhadi surge on all fronts? How to control when it’s appropriate and inappropriate to encourage Muslims to do jihad?
    ………………………………..

    When would *you* consider it appropriate for Muslims to wage violent Jihad? This is very odd phrasing”and most frequently found when Muslims are simply debating whether waging violent Jihad is a useful tactic in this or that push to impose Shar’ah. As a rule, this is not a question someone who is genuinely Anti-Jihad would ask.

    More:

    Kepha, here’s a story about one of the Indonesian moderate Islam sites. You’ll notice if you read enough on the NU site itself they’re desperate to find a means of expunging this jihad business from Indonesian society even while still trying to impose sharia laws on society… What a messy contradiction — Espousing Sharia law but trying to limit extremist Islam groups and web sites!
    ………………………………..

    Actually, this is very common. Waging violent Jihad is just one tactic for imposing Shari’ah. This doesn’t mean these Muslims are “moderates” in any meaningful manner.

    More:

    Do you JihadWatch readers even look at any other Muslim sites where people decry this kind of insanity? You make it sound as if it’s a universal given that Muslims want jihad and it’s not true.
    ………………………………..

    Violent Jihad is an intrinsic aspect of Islam from the days of the baleful “Prophet”. Very few Muslims decry Jihad universally, and those few who do are considered apostates.

    More:

    I’ll go collect some web sites for you all since you obviously aren’t willing to concede that there are Muslims who decry jihad. The fact there are seemingly an overwhelmingly greater number who ARE believers in jihad is a very depressing truth. But the truth is there will always be a greater number who aren’t involved in jihad. If this weren’t true, there would be blood running in the streets on the scale of the London bombings and the Madrid bombings and 9/11 EACH and EVERY DAY.
    ………………………………..

    Well, then! I suppose we really don’t have a serious problem after all…sarc/off

    More:

    Nagesh, I’m not sure how Islam should handle this jihad business. Could jihad be entirely eliminated from Islam without revising the religion entirely? Who knows. I’d love for some Muslim clerics to challenge their fellow clerics to eliminate jihad ideology.
    ………………………………..

    And I’d love to have a magic ATM in my living room. Not gonna happen.

    More:

    I wholeheartedly agree, Nagesh. That’s what makes this such an incredibly nasty situation to try to get a handle on. There are sooo many elements at play in this jihad situation. This is true for every country in the world. It’s a challenge for every single imam who makes a decision to voice jihad or not.
    ………………………………..

    This is only a “challenge” for pious Muslims, because of the core tenets of Islam. Catholic Priests, Reform Rabbis, and Episcopal Ministers aren’t apt to decide to “voice Jihad”. I wonder why that is? sarc/off

    More:

    Then there are quite different voices in the Muslim community ” in Britain, and elsewhere. One example is Inspire, a women’s organization that before the Norwegian horror declared what it called a “jihad against violence.”
    ………………………………..

    Very odd. Perhaps you are aware that “Inspire” has also been used by Jihadists. This Jihad magazine has been inspiring “lone wolf” Jihadists for several years now. “How to Build a Bomb in the Kitchen of Your Mom” has proven especially popular…

    And why the reference to “the Norwegian horror”? This is very strange in this context. In fact, after Breivik’s atrocity, Anjem Choudary called for Shari’ah in the UK.

    As for “Inspire” itself, their main gist”which has become very, very common”is that the primary problem is that the West is ‘Islamophobic’ in associating Muslims with violent Jihad. Their ire is aimed more at the Western press than at their homicidal coreligionists. They just don’t like that fact that Westerners associating Muslims with violent Jihad ‘makes Islam look bad’.

    Here’s more, from Sara Khan’s own site:

    http://sara-myspace.blogspot.com/2010/12/terrorism-in-name-of-jihad.html

    More:

    What can these women do to STOP THIS INSANE DEDICATION TO JIHAD that’s being popularized on these freakin’ jihadi web sites?
    ………………………………..

    Jihad is central to Islam, and is found in all its core texts”the Qur’an, the Hadith, and the Sira, as well as in the model of Muhammed. The idea that violent Jihad is some sort of internet phenomenon is just ludicrous. The web is being used to disseminate Jihad, but it also spread through the texts of Islam, though parental teachings, through Muslims’ peers, and preached in most Mosques.

    More:

    I came to this forum for more information about the Bostonian perspective on local jihadi groups because I am an ex-Bostonian, an EX-NEWTONIAN. In fact. one of the longest running participants in the Boston Marathon, Johnny Kelley used to run past my house on Centre Street in Newton almost every day of the week. I have relatives in Auburndale, Watertown, Wellesley, Newton, West Newton, Haverhill and out in the Berkshires…

    As I mentioned on one of the current threads, I said I was a Newton, MA resident up until the age of 27 when I moved out of state. If that’s not enough *factual rationale* for reading this forum, I don’t know what is!

    I’ll point out that you started all the name-calling and putdowns, Champ. I simply followed suit when I got tired of not being believed that I am an actual former Bostonian and Newton resident…

    You honestly think challenging me about being a former Newtown/Boston resident when I obviously exhibited an intimate familiarity w/the locales was the way to go? Why not simply ask me trick questions about the Boston area???? EASY PEASY…
    ………………………………..

    Well, this just ludicrous. Whether or not you have lived in the Boston area tells us absolutely nothing about you, your character, or your motives. After all, the Tsarnaev brothers lived in the Boston area, and that didn’t make *them* Anti-Jihadists. Moreover, your ire over other posters questioning your Boston-local credentials is ridiculous”no one ever did. This is just a straw man issue.

    More:

    Any of you read and subscribe to the organization I’ve linked to below? I’ve been a subscriber for years ever since my oldest sister was in the region and the very first of the terrorist events began to happen w/regularity. Does anyone in this current thread remember the American Jew, Klinghoffer, who was shot and tossed off a cruise ship in front of his wife??? I’m old enough to have watched the terrorism phenomenon unfold over the decades so don’t give me this patently wrong-way Corrigan BS about not being strongly enough against jihad and terrorism.

    YOU read MEMRI.org, the ORIGINAL ANTI-JIHADIST web site, Istanbul Chick? I’ll believe it when I read it…. Keep smearing that frosting on your cooter, it might eventually lubricate your brain if you try long enough and hard enough.

    Why, Istanbul Chick, don’t let any of your well-reasoned (or should that be well-SEASONED??) frosting get on your greasy little cooter!
    ………………………………..

    More absurdity. Virtually every regular reader here is very familiar with MEMRI. In fact, Jihad Watch links to MEMRI all the time.

    As for that vicious”and terribly crude”reference, this is classic troll behavior. It is, moreover, classic Muslim troll behavior. You may or may not be a Muslim troll, but you certainly have embraced their tactics. Very unpleasant.

    More:

    That is too simple of a question, Wellington. Besides, there’s no way to eradicate Islam. Like any religion, there are definitely evil aspects to it which some Muslims have taken to a whole ‘nother level of horror. Would it help if they revised the Q’uran?
    ………………………………..

    I don’t know”would it? Really, this is a ridiculous question. Those few Muslims like Zuhdi Jasser and Irshad Manji who have even vaguely suggested such things are marginalized and under death threat. Moreover, this isn’t something that Infidels have any control over, so this is nothing but a distraction.

    If “moderate” Muslims want to reform Islam and eradicate Jihad, no one would be happier than myself. But sitting around hoping for this is nothing short of pointless.

    More:

    Wellington, wait a minute, Christianity has never done evil in its name? Maybe I’m all wet, but what was the War of the Roses about? (Trick question…
    ………………………………..

    Well, yes”this *is* a “trick question”, since, as Wellington pointed out, the War of the Roses had *nothing to do with religion*. In fact, the War of the Roses took place long before Protestantism even existed.

    Perhaps you merely made an honest mistake here. Still…

    More:

    The only thing that is different at this point in time about the various jihad movements is that there’s the additional element of the recreation of the Um’mah —- the greater Muslim Caliphate of yore. Some of these Muslim jihadi movements are highly dedicated to the recreation of this ancient Caliphate and others are less so. I think this is a tremendously powerful stimulus for some of these individual jihadis. For others, it’s of no importance at all. What’s more scary? That there are individual jihadis who are dedicated to the recreation of the Um’mah vs those jihadis who aren’t interested in anything more than taking over their own countries?
    ………………………………..

    More hairsplitting. For one thing, the Ummah has never gone away”this just indicates the body of Muslim believers. And most Muslims do want to see the restoration of the Caliphate”it’s just that some are content in the short-run to impose Shari’ah in their own stretch of Dar-al-Islam.

    And then, there’s the matter of where the Caliphate is headquartered and who the Caliph will be. No doubt if there is a final push for this, it will be a bloody one, as various Shari’ah states jockey for power.

    But however this turns out, it won’t mean anything good for Infidels in the path of this vicious madness, so your point is a moot one.

    More:

    There’s only been one country that has ever had a government that somewhat tempered Islam and that was Turkey. There was a Turk named Mohammed Attaturk who somehow managed to install a secular state in Turkey. The secular Turkey is under attack now by extremists and Islamists. Will they win and end up controlling Turkey, who knows?
    ………………………………..

    His name was “Mustapha”, not “Muhammed”. And what he did was suppress Islam in Turkey. And Erdogan has already dismantled a good part of Attatürk’s secular reforms.

    More:

    There are Afghan farmers in tiny little backwaters who have insisted on sending their daughters to school because they want them to have a better life. Then along come some Islamists and the poor Afghani girls have acid thrown in their faces or a bomb is tossed in their direction… (Several disfigured Afghan girls have been treated here in Boston.) If there are Afghan farmers out in the sticks who want a secular country, that’s a sign there are Muslims who want secular Islam. How do we ensure these Afghan farmers and other folks in all Muslim countries who want to go the secular route get the upper hand?
    ………………………………..

    Assuming that these Afghans want to see a “secular” Afghanistan is just absurd. And if ten years in that benighted stretch of Dar-al-Islam hasn’t been enough to give supposed “moderates” a chance to “go the secular route”, then what would you suggest? The fact is that support for the Taliban is shockingly high in Afghanistan is extraordinarily high, and support for Shari’ah in general even higher.

    But that’s the problem, isn’t it? Most Muslims support Jihad and Shari’ah, and all your streams of verbiage will not make this any less so.

  67. says

    Personally,I don’t care what Mahoundians feel about anything…They are obligated to follow the edicts demanded of them in Quran and Hadith by Allah…If they don’t do this, they are apostates and will die as hypocrites…They may not care for violence personally, but they cannot go against the word or laws of Allah…

  68. says

    Americana, You are clearly missing the main point, which is that jihad and violence are inherently and fundamentally part of islam. This is verifiably true. This is the heart of islam. If there are muslims who don’t know about this, or are in denial about this (and clearly there are many), that doesn’t mean that the texts of islam don’t demand that muslims believe this. Also, if there were a large number of muslims who wanted to stop this, then there would be HUGE demonstrations in cities across the world on a weekly basis to denounce the perpetrators of this daily violence in the name of Islam. Where are they? Where are the huge demonstrations? Only when islam is ‘disrespected’ do you see big demonstrations. The fact is that you don’t see these demonstrations against jihad and violence because they (the ‘good muslims’) know that they will then become targets of the jihadists AND that the jihadists actually have the textual support for what they are doing. The people you are speaking about would be better off creating another religion because, in the bigger picture, they just end up carrying water for the jihadists by confusing ignorant infidels as to the actual truth of what islam really is.

  69. says

    David, the EXPLOSIVE that fueled these devices was GUN POWDER. So, genius that I am, I’m suggesting that if they didn’t have access to bullets, they might not have been able to rig these pressure cookers to explode. OK, maybe that’s not really true. The simple truth is they’d simply have to design a far more complex chemical bomb that might have involved two (or more) chemicals coming into contact and triggering an explosion. Lone wolves will always be the fly in the ointment. I’m not denying their Muslim connections nor the fact the Muslims have to find some way to get a grip on this jihad BS.

    When I say “force the Senate,” I know for a fact that the majority of folks in my state were in favour of UNIVERSAL BACKGROUND CHECKS but that’s not what my Senator voted for. Why didn’t he reflect the wishes of his electorate? Because he’s got a “A” rating from the NRA. As for gun control, it sounds like Adam Lanza’s mother SHOULDN’T have had guns in HER POSSESSION since she had mental problems. She had an organic brain issue and she was worried about some growths in her brain. You think folks who have brain issues should have access to guns?? I don’t think so. It’s also indicative of just how mysterious family relationships can be that Kathy Lanza didn’t have a clue about the deterioration in her son’s mental state. If I had been Adam’s mother, I wouldn’t HAVE EVER ACQUIRED GUNS, nevermind have acquired an assault rifle.

  70. says

    Nagesh, I’m not sure how Islam should handle this jihad business. Could jihad be entirely eliminated from Islam without revising the religion entirely? Who knows. I’d love for some Muslim clerics to challenge their fellow clerics to eliminate jihad ideology.

  71. says

    “The media are mostly a bunch of uninformed boobs in the matter of Islam.”

    I’d go further and call them criminal.

    I’ve been watching one of the big 3 for the past hour.

    There is much speculation on the part of the “reporters.”

    They’ve mentioned Chechnya only in the context of the two “suspects” were “refugees” from that country that’s fought “bitter civil war with Russia” for many years.

    Not one mention of *why* Chechnya is fighting. Of course, it’s to create a separate *islamist* country. Not one mention that America *foolishly* supports not the Russians but the islamist Chechnyans dubbed “freedom fighters.”

    Not one mention of women being intimidated and even physically harassed in Chechnya for not wearing *islamic headdresses.*

    Not one mention of these “confused young mens'” FB pages and online activity on jihadi sites.

    Every time they show the press conference with the righteously enraged uncle of the two jihadis they cut off at the point where he mentions trying to steer them away from islam.

    These omissions of relevant facts are a criminal act on the part of the enemedia. By not reporting *all* of the facts they are not allowing viewers to make completely informed conclusions. I’ve no doubt that these omissions are intentional.

    When the new Nuremberg comes nothing less than seeing these complicit talking heads hanging at the end of a noose will do.

  72. says

    Americana, for me it’s about seeing things as they are and starting from there, rather than starting from some form of wishful thinking. The fact is that an imam needs to have full understanding of the texts of islam and have been schooled in an accredited islamic university to become an imam. This would mean that he (no SHE possible, btw) would know that he would have no textual (koran, hadith, sira), basis to challenge his fellow clerics to eliminate jihad ideology, and would, by doing this, make themselves apostates in the eyes of imams and orthodox muslims (with textual support), which would then put their lives in grave jeopardy. I wish it were otherwise but this is the way it is. Seeing things the way they are, no matter how difficult, needs to be the starting point.

  73. says

    You asked: ‘Could jihad be entirely eliminated from Islam without revising the religion entirely?’

    Clearly, you are light years away from understanding Islam, if your question is genuine.

    Take some time to read ‘Islam 101’ on this web site. Then ask yourself the same question. If your response is anything less than a howl of laughter, keep reading JW!

  74. says

    I wholeheartedly agree, Nagesh. That’s what makes this such an incredibly nasty situation to try to get a handle on. There are sooo many elements at play in this jihad situation. This is true for every country in the world. It’s a challenge for every single imam who makes a decision to voice jihad or not. I’m personally sick of reading stories of Muslim women who are proud of their sons’ committing brutal acts. They believe they’ll be going to heaven as well because of the cruelty of their sons. Religious indoctrination of this kind should stop. Can it be stopped?

  75. says

    You wrote:

    “If they don’t listen, can’t argue rationally and use verbal abuse then and only then are they are a troll!”

    Americana wrote to me:

    “She might challenge more than two of your brain cells to put thoughts together.”

    Oh, does this qualify as verbal abuse? Just askin’ …

  76. says

    A troll is someone who hijacks a thread so that everyone is addressing her/him and not the topic at hand. Jihad Watch has a long history of Muslim trolls with names like “Americana”.

    This person is not looking to be educated
    and the posts are too incoherent to be called an argument. You can waste your time debating her, knock yourself out.

    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

    Your comment is worth repeating. Good job.

  77. says

    “‘loopholes’ in our society allow men like these to go to the dark side of their religion”

    Well, Americana, what line separates the light and dark sides of their religion, then? What line did these two cross, exactly, on their journey from “nice boys” to violent jihadists. Which passages from Qur’an and the Sunnah of Muhammad are reserved for “radicals” and “extremists”, alone?

  78. says

    Ignore her, Champ.

    She’s a snob getting her cooter all wet talking down to the serfs.

    Her pleasure in life is baiting those she deems beneath her.

    Ignore her and let her prattle on to herself.

  79. says

    PRCS, I’ve never denied there is a RIDICULOUS amount of importance attached to jihad in Islam. How do we change this? The following is a post I put in another thread which is worth your reading. It’s relevant that there are Muslim women who are saying to themselves this jihad business is CRAZY. What can these women do to STOP THIS INSANE DEDICATION TO JIHAD that’s being popularized on these freakin’ jihadi web sites?

    This first link is to a British women’s group that knows they’ve got a major problem w/keeping their kids from taking up jihad:

    http://www.wewillinspire.com/index.php/sections/news-view/news-muslim-women-beyond-the-stereotypes

    This is a NY Times’ story about the above group and about Muslim women in general trying to staunch this push for jihad:

    http://www.nytimes.com/2011/08/03/world/europe/03iht-letter03.html?_r=0

    Then there are quite different voices in the Muslim community ” in Britain, and elsewhere. One example is Inspire, a women’s organization that before the Norwegian horror declared what it called a “jihad against violence.”
    The group says it aims to support and empower Muslim women of all ages and backgrounds, and particularly to educate them so they can counter the arguments of children radicalized by reading on the Internet.
    To date, Inspire has led five workshops on countering the ideology of extremists, with 30 to 35 participants in each session. The effort is aimed at Muslim women, because they raise children.
    “Very often, when women are confronted with religious questions from their children, they don’t know how to answer,” said Sara Khan, 31, a mother of two who has a master’s degree in pharmacy and was encouraged by her father to work in the South Asian Muslim community in Bradford.
    In 2005 and 2006, she was a member of the British Home Office working group tackling extremism and radicalization. Two years ago, she co-founded Inspire.
    With the Internet, Muslim youth can easily be swayed by English-speaking preachers like Anwar al-Awlaki ” a U.S. citizen accused of having inspired the Fort Hood shootings in Texas and the failed Christmas bombing of a Detroit-bound airliner ” or the ideology of Al Qaeda or other radical groups. “Our aim is to give women the knowledge to counter this ideology, and the best way is to use Islam,” Mrs. Khan said.
    Then there are quite different voices in the Muslim community ” in Britain, and elsewhere. One example is Inspire, a women’s organization that before the Norwegian horror declared what it called a “jihad against violence.”
    The group says it aims to support and empower Muslim women of all ages and backgrounds, and particularly to educate them so they can counter the arguments of children radicalized by reading on the Internet.
    To date, Inspire has led five workshops on countering the ideology of extremists, with 30 to 35 participants in each session. The effort is aimed at Muslim women, because they raise children.
    “Very often, when women are confronted with religious questions from their children, they don’t know how to answer,” said Sara Khan, 31, a mother of two who has a master’s degree in pharmacy and was encouraged by her father to work in the South Asian Muslim community in Bradford.
    In 2005 and 2006, she was a member of the British Home Office working group tackling extremism and radicalization. Two years ago, she co-founded Inspire.
    With the Internet, Muslim youth can easily be swayed by English-speaking preachers like Anwar al-Awlaki ” a U.S. citizen accused of having inspired the Fort Hood shootings in Texas and the failed Christmas bombing of a Detroit-bound airliner ” or the ideology of Al Qaeda or other radical groups. “Our aim is to give women the knowledge to counter this ideology, and the best way is to use Islam,” Mrs. Khan said.

  80. says

    Oh, now I’m “talking down to the serfs?” More like talking down to the smurfs!#$!#$#@$ I’m not a snob. You’re the ones who started slinging names and not reading what I’ve written. You’re only capable of reading someone who writes, “JIHAD SUCKS.”

    Should be obvious from my posts I agree w/the fact JIHAD SUCKS.

  81. says

    Why, Istanbul Chick, don’t let any of your well-reasoned (or should that be well-SEASONED??) frosting get on your greasy little cooter!

    Any of you read and subscribe to the organization I’ve linked to below? I’ve been a subscriber for years ever since my oldest sister was in the region and the very first of the terrorist events began to happen w/regularity. Does anyone in this current thread remember the American Jew, Klinghoffer, who was shot and tossed off a cruise ship in front of his wife??? I’m old enough to have watched the terrorism phenomenon unfold over the decades so don’t give me this patently wrong-way Corrigan BS about not being strongly enough against jihad and terrorism.

    This link below is quite a compendium of international specialists on Islam and the Muslim world and it’s obviously got a vested interest in monitoring and stopping jihad.

    http://www.memri.org/

  82. says

    Brava, Istanbul_Chick!! …spot on response to Amiserable!

    AHAHA!!!!! …oh she’s “NOT a snob” …I think the poor dear needs a mirror, Istanbul_Chick! What do you think? LOL!

  83. says

    My maiden name is Champion and I’m proud of it! …and Champ has been my nickname for years; so it’s the perfect choice for me on this forum.

    And if you claim to represent America with your “Americana” moniker, then God help us All!

  84. says

    No. You aren’t being called a snob for those reasons, but because you have made this discussion all about YOU. You’ve drawn the battle lines: us against YOU.

    Americana? …more like Amohammedan!

  85. says

    In your initial comment you come in swinging, here it is:

    “Are you folks kidding me??? These guys didn’t necessarily have military training. Such “training” as they obviously had looks to have been gleaned from jihadi websites where they could have learned everything they needed to know about building these sorts of bombs and using handguns. If we didn’t want guys like these to be able to get their hands on ANY guns in order to pull off this shootout, why didn’t we force the Senate to pass more reasonable GUN LEGISLATION, including BACKGROUND CHECKS??? We are in denial about how jihadis are made. We’re also in denial about how the gun and other types of ‘loopholes’ in our society allow men like these to go to the dark side of their religion.

    Do you folks not realize there is a battle going on within Islam as to how to control this jidhadi surge on all fronts? How to control when it’s appropriate and inappropriate to encourage Muslims to do jihad? Do you JihadWatch readers even look at any other Muslim sites where people decry this kind of insanity? You make it sound as if it’s a universal given that Muslims want jihad and it’s not true.”

    ~~~~~~~~~~~~

    Your own words condemn you and prove my point; that you’ve made this discussion all about YOU and YOUR viewpoint, and you’ve also drawn battle lines in your first comment, making it us–as in “you folks”, against precious YOU.

    You started each paragraph with “you folks”, so you’re the one that set us against you, and you’re the one that started this mudslide. Take responsibility, if you can; if you dare.

  86. says

    Bite you? No, thank you. And since I’ve gotten under YOUR skin, then perhaps you’ll want to nibble on yourself instead.

  87. says

    It’s not too simple a question I posed to you and it’s certainly not too simple because there is no way to eradicate Islam. There’s no way to eradicate Marxism or fascism either, but this doesn’t mean for this reason Marxism and fascism are not evil.

    You yourself admitted that there are some evil aspects to Islam. Well, there are no evil aspects to Christianity, Judaism, Buddhism, atheism, agnosticism, Zoroastrianism, etc. You see, something that is partly evil is arguably even worse than something that is wholly evil because the good obscures the bad and thus gives evil a longer life. This exactly describes Islam which has some good elements to it about charity, the importance of the family, etc., but which is full of pathologies, e.g., death for apostasy, that no other religion has.

    Besides, the character of the founder of Islam, unlike the character of any other founder of a major religion or ethical system is deeply disturbing. Mohammed’s character is that of a psychopath, and when you start out rotten, only rotten can follow. You see, mankind, unfortunately, finally got a religion which is rotten to the core; mankind got Islam. Just as there is no reforming Marxism or Nazism, so there is no reforming Islam. Guaranteed.

    I’m getting heartily tired of people who keep trying to redeem the totalitarian ideology which is Islam. No totalitarian ideology can be reformed, not Nazism, Marxism, Islam, etc. Such can only be chucked, eventually assigned to the trash heap of history. Not there yet with Islam. Damn shame because it means much more carnage will occur in the name of Islam until Islam is completely discredited, as it so richly deserves to be.

  88. says

    The War of the Roses? Are you kidding? The War of the Roses was a dynastic struggle (1455-1485) between Yorkists and Lancastrians (White and Red Rose respectively), in no way a religious war. Holy Hell, you are both desperate and ignorant.

    I’ve taught about this war in detail, including the bloody battle of Towton (1461), fought in a blizzard, but never have I had to mention a religious element—because there wasn’t any.

    What you miss is huge. Here it is: Though Christians over the ages would often times engage in slaughter, sometimes having nothing to do with their faith, and always when having something to do with faith being contrary to their faith, Muslims, by contrast, when engaging in war were overwhelmingly fulfilling a dictate of their faith—jihad, war to be waged upon the unbeliever until all the world is Islamic. Wise up and cease your faux comparisons between Christianity and Islam.

    They are pathetic, wrong, desperate, inaccurate, evidence of a little knowledge being a bad thing, and even insulting. Really, you’ll have to do much better than you have to make any headway here at JW. Certainly with me you will.

  89. says

    Wise up and cease your faux comparisons between Christianity and Islam.

    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

    Great advice, Wellington; and as an aside to your comment, this reminds me of the equally preposterous and evil “Chrislam” movement sweeping through lukewarm Christian groups and churches across America. And a small piece of advice from me is for anyone that’s involved in this movement to run straight for the door–screaming, if need be–and get out stat!

  90. says

    Kepha, here’s a story about one of the Indonesian moderate Islam sites. You’ll notice if you read enough on the NU site itself they’re desperate to find a means of expunging this jihad business from Indonesian society even while still trying to impose sharia laws on society… What a messy contradiction — Espousing Sharia law but trying to limit extremist Islam groups and web sites! Sounds to me they believe Indonesia is on the razor’s edge because of the jihadis and Islamists extremists but they’re aware they’re going against the tide. If you want to do more reading on the site, here it is:

    http://nu.or.id/lang,en-.phpx

    Here’s a story about the Nahdlatul Ulama organization:

    » 10/08/2011 10:58
    INDONESIA

    HEADLINE: Jakarta, moderate Muslims against 300 Islamic extremist websites: block them

    by Mathias Hariyadi

    Nahdlatul Ulama leaders support the government struggle, which last year blocked jihadist and fundamentalist sites. They promote “false teachings” of Islam and incite attacks in the country. Criticism from activists: block is not the “best solution” to halt the extremist drift.

    Jakarta (AsiaNews) – The Nahdlatul Ulama (NU), the most important moderate Muslim organization in Indonesia, supports the Government fight against the proliferation of extremist websites glorifying holy war. Well before the recent suicide attacks in Solo, in Central Java and Ambon in the Moluccas against the Christian community, the moderate wing of the Islamic country asked for an iron fist against the jihadist propaganda on the net. Meanwhile, Information Minister Tifatul Sembiring has announced that over the last 12 months, the government has blocked at least 300 Internet sites linked to Islamic extremist groups that “promote distorted views and ideas of Islam.”

    Kiai Hajj Hasyim Muzadi, former head of the NU, and his successor and current leader Kiai Hajj Agil Siradj vigorously support the fight against extremism, equating them to “pornographic sites” capable of “influencing people’s minds.” In a message issued on September 27 last, Siradj asks the executive to “block these dangerous sites” that call on Muslims to become “holy martyrs” and suicide bombers targeting the Christian communities of the archipelago. “They encourage the younger generations – concludes the current NU leader – in false teachings of true Islam.” In his warning Agil Siradj also recalls the suicide attack of 25 September against the Bethel Church in Solo, in Central Java (see AsiaNews 09/25/2011At least three killed in a suicide attack on church in Indonesia). The bomber, identified as Pino Damayanti, but also known by the pseudonym Amhad Yosepa Hayat, spent some time in an internet cafe, before carrying out the crazy gesture against the place of Christian worship.

    However, according to the activist Sidney Jones, of International Crisis Group (ICG), blocking websites alone is not the best solution in the fight against fundamentalism in Indonesia. The seed of extremism and violent struggle, in fact, is more prevalent in social networks or through the exchange of telephone messages. Moreover, the spreading of false information, to foment sectarian violence, is a longtime practice in Indonesia, also fueled by the low level of education and the limited ability of judgement.

    The only period in which Indonesia enjoyed a relatively peaceful atmosphere without inter-religious clashes was under the president (and dictator) Suharto, between 1967 and 1998. With his charisma and the use of force – military and civilian – he was able to maintain control of the country and prevent incidents and attacks by Islamic extremist groups. At the price of a limitation of human and civil rights, combined with the repression of dissent.

  91. says

    You just don’t get it, do you? Well, here it is: So-called radical Islam is just Islam and so-called moderate Islam is Islam in denial.

  92. says

    With all due respect, I don’t agree with you about Americana at all.

    Jackdiamond made an excellent observation about her, here:

    “A troll is someone who hijacks a thread so that everyone is addressing her/him and not the topic at hand. Jihad Watch has a long history of Muslim trolls with names like “Americana”.

    This person is not looking to be educated
    and the posts are too incoherent to be called an argument. You can waste your time debating her, knock yourself out.”

    And you may think that many of us are being too hard on her, but I think you’re being too easy and somewhat naive. Have you read every comment shes made yet? Please take some time and read them. Thank you.

  93. says

    Americana, are you aware of this:

    In Sahih al-Bukhari, the most canonical hadith collection, Muhammad said,

    "Whoever changed his Islamic religion, then kill him."

    Various other canonical hadiths attest that Muhammad called for death to those who leave Islam. That's why even today all the schools of Islamic law prescribe death for apostasy from Islam.

    Check out these links to news stories, and also these links to news stories about people being killed for daring to leave Islam. And many, many more such stories have been reported in the global media.

    A December 2010 survey conducted by the Pew Research Center found relatively widespread popular support for death penalty as a punishment for apostasy from Islam: in Egypt (84% of respondents in favor of death penalty), Jordan (86% in favor), Indonesia (30% in favor), Pakistan (76% favor) and Nigeria (51% in favor).

  94. says

    Hi, DDA …

    You wrote:

    “On the offchance that Americana is what she says she is, and not a Muslimah in a mask attempting to confuse, distract, evade, and ‘split the camp’ into the bargain, and for the benefit of anyone lobbing in here in the wake of the Boston jihad ghazi raid, who is currently new to this site and this subject, I will link each of those four classic items that I have just mentioned above.”

    You and I are both seasoned posters here on Jihad Watch, and your above comment is a very thoughtful and prudent approach; but lets keep a close eye on Americana for any of the signs you mentioned above; especially for the sake of those seeking the truth about islam and company. That said, of course we want to be welcoming towards new people who are genuine in seeking the truth.

  95. says

    correction: but lets keep a close eye on Americana for any *more* of the signs you mentioned above …since she has already demonstrated a few thus far.

    As you know, typical mohammedan behavior includes name-calling and put-down’s; strategies you’ll notice that Americana is flagrantly using on this thread.

  96. says

    I asked if you were aware of that stuff not because you are specially suspect to me, Americana, but because one or two things you said in your comments suggested to me that you might not be aware of the stuff I have now quoted. Glad to hear you are aware.

    Have you had a chance to look at Spencer’s new book?

  97. says

    Hi, CGW …

    Thank you for stepping in and for your kind words. I have always held you and your opinions in such high regard, so I will take to heart what you’ve written to me. Please know that Americana claims to be a Christian, too, and I wasn’t sure if you knew that; so your admonition to me ought to extend to her, as well. And please consider what I’ve written in my last post @2:11AM, if you haven’t already. Again–thank you!

    And it’s only 11:32 my time, so the time stamp is Eastern.

  98. says

    I didn’t address your truce request directly, CGW, and I should have. The truce you’ve asked for will be honored by me. I apologize to those to whom my manner of writing about these issues is incomprehensible or vastly different from others here on the forums. I know I’m guilty of being obtuse sometimes. (But as the writer, one’s meaning is always clear to oneself so I may be overlooking my tone in some way.) I’ve had people ream me for being this kind of ‘difficult’ writer so my failure to communicate is not unique to you folks.

  99. says

    My dear Champ, it wasn’t an admonition, dear Lady, it was meant merely as a recognition of your sterling character and good nature, as evidenced by your strong commitment to your faith.

  100. says

    Oh ..well, thank you for clarifying, CGW, and also for your very kind and loving words; I am deeply humbled by them, dear friend.

  101. says

    Americana,

    I wasn’t trying to press you to read Spencer’s new book, nor to criticize you if you haven’t read it. I was really just making conversation. I wondered if you had had a look at it, since you are Catholic and the book is about the relation (and huge gulf) between Catholicism and Islam. I’ve been reading the book and finding it very interesting, so I thought it might be interesting to discuss. It’s okay with me that you haven’t had a chance to read it.

    But this thread perhaps needs a reboot or reset. Next time maybe we can all start over with a clean(er) slate.

  102. says

    That’s a good start, Americana. I think that if everyone just steps back and lets cooler heads prevail, they’ll find strength in their commonly-shared views and goals. We truly welcome additional allies and comrades, and if you stick around and participate you’ll find Champ to be actually just that, a *true* champion for righteousness in all of its forms. She is kind, true and emotionally generous, and I know she will be quick to befriend you if she perceives you as a genuine opponent to the evils perpetrated by islam. I know you’ve both gotten off to a rough start, but I think it’s entirely possible to patch things up. Both of your comments above are a good start.

    And Anericana, don’t go off on Jan for the last post. It’s a basic, simple description of how you may have been perceived here at JW. Take it as a learning experience and realize that often feelings rage hot here due to the extreme nature of the atrocities we deal with on a daily basis. Many of us can sometimes be touchy and overly-defensive. It’s not really an indictment of you as a person, just some basic miscommunication. Be patient with us and let’s struggle together against islam, not each other. I think that the fact that you’re reaching out to a new community due to your own concerns says a lot about you as a person. You have the potential to be a valuable contributor here.

    Jan is as solid a JWer as you will find, and Istanbul Chick is . . . well, a hardcore, badass counter-jihadist with knowledge of islam from the inside. She shoots straight from the hip (with an AK 47) and has no patience for bullsh*t. She’s someone you REALLY want in the trenches with you when sh*t goes down.

    Welcome, and let’s all just start over.

  103. says

    “…and above all, proofread …”

    !!!!

    lierally = literally

    oopsie…

    ————————————————-

    You crack me up, Dowsie!

    (The first time I typed that, I typed “carck”.)

  104. says

    Hi, Jan …

    Thank you for the accurate observations in your above comment @11:05; and thank you for taking the time to read through the comments to see who said what and when. You’re also right that Americana has singled me out, and perhaps for the reasons that you had mentioned.

    You wrote:

    “If she’s not a mohammedan dementor in a mask, then possibly she’s a deluded kumbaya type leftist, who is so focused on what she wants, gun control, that she mixes it up with jihadist murderers, whilst at the same time saying, yes, jihad’s a problem in islam, but hey, there are some nice muslim women who’re trying to stop it. Which means what ? Absolutely nothing, since violent jihad is **intrinsic** to islam.”

    I completely agree with your assessment here, as well. Good work, Jan!

    Your entire comment was really spot on; so again, thank you! :)

  105. says

    “You’ve all gotta admit, the cooter remark was really (literally) below the belt and it did set the tone for all following exchanges.”

    Why did you blame me for stating that to you? I never wrote that. Are you ready to apologize to me?

  106. says

    Hi, CGW …

    C’mon, don’t you see what Americana is made of; and do you really think that it’s possible to move forward? She is not here to be reasonable and fair, not at all. Surely you can see that, right? I did agree to take your advice to heart, but Americana can’t be reasoned with. I tested her to see if she was genuine, and notice that she failed the test miserably.

    Jackdiamond has been right all along and I still stand by his definition of a troll, here:

    He wrote:

    “A troll is someone who hijacks a thread so that everyone is addressing her/him and not the topic at hand.”

    This entire thread has been about her, by design, and we’ve enabled her. Myself included. I love you to pieces, but I’m having difficulty understanding why you would give her any more chances to improve on herself, when there seems to be nothing to work with! I am all for forgiving and moving forward, and you know this about me, but I will not enable selfish and foolish behavior. At some point she needs to take responsibility, and I see Zero evidence of this EVER happening. Many blessings to you, dear friend :)

  107. says

    gravenimage —– One other thing. I don’t quite understand your belief the Um’mah hasn’t “gone away” in the true sense of the phrase. Sure, there are still Muslims all over the darn place that give a semblance of there being a Um’mah because they’re speaking Arabic. But the reality is the Um’mah **HAS GONE AWAY** in the historical sense of the Caliphate (which was many lands under one unified Muslim leader) otherwise there wouldn’t be Muslim groups and leaders who keep trying to inspire Muslims to rise up and take over the historical reach of the Caliphate. It reached deep into Spain… you know. That’s a whole lotta landscape they hope to put under Muslim control.

  108. says

    I agree that minor mistakes such as Attatürk’s name and the nature of the War of the Roses are not in and of themselves important. Of course, everyone makes errors”I certainly do myself from time to time. But it is simply odd”and quite unseemly”in the context of your smearing other posters’ allegedly low intelligence and education levels.

    You wrote:

    Is there wacked, ILLEGITIMATE jihad where everyone is a target whether they are civilians or not? That’s what’s being successfully proselytized across all the internet jihadi BBs. Obviously there is illegitimate jihad because we wouldn’t be experiencing decade after decade after decade of the most incredible brutality where Muslim extremists keep upping the ante and reaching for the next most horrific means of mass killing they can devise.
    ……………………………….

    What makes you think that violent Jihad targeting civilians is “ILLEGITIMATE”, as you write in screaming all-caps? If you are indeed well versed in history as you claim then you must be well aware that Muslim hordes have been targeting civilian populations since the 7th-century.

    This ideology *is* spread via the internet, and via YouTube and videotapes and audiotapes”but the message itself has not changed one iota. One could have made the same argument when Jihadists decades ago belatedly embraced the printing press to disseminate their foul ideology.

    Some of the techniques have evolved, such as the use of Western technology, but nothing else has changed.

  109. says

    “Americana” wrote:

    My understanding is the TWO MAGAZINES of the same name ARE NOT THE SAME. The women’s magazine is a local production, the jihadi-brainchild “INSPIRE” is an internationally disseminated magazine that was designed as a recruitment and educational tool to reach European and American Muslims and other international Muslim groups. Please correct me if I’m wrong… I’m off to check that myself since you’ve made me question it. As far as I know, they’re not the same magazine, they’re entirely different but, unfortunately, they share the same name.
    ………………………………

    I never claimed that they were the same magazine (I’m not even sure that the British group has a magazine). Inspire Magazine is clearly and unabashedly Jihadist”but Inspire UK is not exactly the group of reformers that you seem to believe, either. Their main issue seems to be that they are trying to distract Westerners from the fact that Jihad is intrinsic to Islam. This is increasingly common, as at least some Infidels in the West are beginning to grasp the Jihad threat.

    Are Muslims such as Sara Khan genuinely anti-Jihad? This seems debatable, at best.

    More:

    gravenimage —– One other thing. I don’t quite understand your belief the Um’mah hasn’t “gone away” in the true sense of the phrase. Sure, there are still Muslims all over the darn place that give a semblance of there being a Um’mah because they’re speaking Arabic.
    ………………………………

    This has *nothing* to do with “speaking Arabic”. There are Arab Christians who speak Arabic and even a few Yemeni Jews who do the same.

    The Ummah is the body of Muslim believers. This is true whether or not all of them are living in Islamic states. Even during the days of the Ottoman Empire, most Muslims lived outside the Caliphate.

    Nonetheless, all pious Muslims consider themselves members of the Ummah”and are likely to wage Jihad accordingly.

    More:

    But the reality is the Um’mah **HAS GONE AWAY** in the historical sense of the Caliphate (which was many lands under one unified Muslim leader) otherwise there wouldn’t be Muslim groups and leaders who keep trying to inspire Muslims to rise up and take over the historical reach of the Caliphate. It reached deep into Spain… you know. That’s a whole lotta landscape they hope to put under Muslim control.
    ………………………………

    This urge has never entirely gone away. It was just somewhat in abeyance for many years because Muslims have been seriously outclassed by the West. But there has never been an era where Muslims were not waging Jihad. For instance, the terrible Armenian Genocide took place at a point when Muslims were at perhaps the lowest ebb of their power and influence. This did little to curb their savagery.

    More:

    What have I disagreed w/in the above? I’ve never given this forum a rundown of what categories the various Muslim wars have fallen into. But, just as w/western civilization, there have been Muslim wars that were justified just as WW II was justifiable for our nation. If wars are never justifiable, then how do you categorize all the battles between medieval principalities in Europe? You just pretend all that bloody poltical messiness didn’t happen, that they simply were feuds undertaken by the Hatfields and McCoys of Europe? That’s sure convenient!! Takes western civilization right off the hook…
    ………………………………

    What rot. No one here has even claimed that all Western wars were justifiable. Certainly, those launched by Fascists were not. This is another straw man argument.

    And few people here have a problem with’say”the Abbasid resistance to Mongol invasion at the Siege of Baghdad in the 13th century.

    But the fact is that most Jihad is by its very nature aggressive”even that which is necessarily labeled “defensive” Jihad in the absence of a Caliphate.

    More:

    There may well be a far higher proportion of disreputable jihad over the centuries. Certainly Islam had disgusting ways of incorporating other religions into their subservient population if they conquered a country. **Either you chose to convert, paid a poll tax for being an infidel or another nation of The Book, or you had your head chopped off… Great choices there, don’t you think?!#$!**
    ………………………………

    How is this “disreputable”? Jihad of conquest with oppression, murder, and forced conversion of conquered Infidel populations is the very heart of Jihad. This is not some aberration. Nor is this a thing of the past, as you imply. While no Islamic state currently formally imposes Jizya, Infidels are systematically oppressed and brutalized in every part of Dar-al-Islam.

    And this “charming” custom of the Muslims only ended”on paper, at least”due to pressure from the West. The same was true with openly practiced Islamic slavery.

    But there are calls throughout the Muslim world to begin imposition of the Jizya again”and to formally reinstitute Islamic slavery.

    More:

    But you have to recognize that as a woman from Newton (a Boston suburb), my tendency is to NEVER ALLOW ANYTHING ADMIRABLE to be said about this form of jihad attack…
    ………………………………

    What does this have to do with your being from Newton? I have a lot of respect for Boston and its storied history, and I consider it a truly great American city.

    But the implication that being from Newton”or the Boston area”automatically gives you Anti-Jihad bona fides is just silly. As I’ve already noted, living in the Boston area didn’t automatically make the Tsarnaev brothers Anti-Jihadists.

    You may, indeed, be an Anti-Jihadist. I hope you are, though your comments here are rather equivocal. Time will tell…

  110. says

    You are mistaken, since I never agreed to a truce nor to an apology. Reread my comments.

    Now my question is simple and it demonstrates good will, so I will ask it again ..

    Americana …

    What do you think of prophet muhammad? Was he evil?

    I would really like to know your thoughts on prophet muhammad.

  111. says

    “You’ve all gotta admit, the cooter remark was really (literally) below the belt and it did set the tone for all following exchanges. I was so upset over being labeled in SUCH CRUDE WAYS I didn’t keep names and remarks straight. (Pity party for Charm and for me.)”

    Learn to practice what you preach, cupcake.

    I made the crack about your snobby cooter *after* you berated some of us about “how the media works” like we were children. My remark came *after* your repulsive place-the-blame-on-guns-but-not-on the-jihadis gun grabbing rant. It came *after* you condescendingly told Champ to use her *two braincells*(now that was below the belt). It also came *after* you made snarky remarks about her being capable of only reading and articulating limited syllable comments when she agreed with another poster that you are a troll.

    What was that about comments “setting the tone”? Toots, *you* set the tone. Live with it and give up the “poor me pity party.”

    All of the above mentioned posts demonstrate that you are indeed an “intellectual” snob. It was also quite clear at that point that you’re the type of troll that gets pleasure out of their own delusions of superiority. Sure, the cooter reference was crude, but I never play polite or nice with such hubristic people as you.

    I stand by what I said about you. No “taking it back,” apologizing or even “calling a truce.” You are a repulsive, bloviating, hypocritical, whining little witch who dishes it out but then plays victim when it’s returned. Which, not surprisingly, is the standard modus operandi of every garden variety mohammadan supremacist and leftist.

    To simplify it as I’m unsure which of your personalities is reading the posts today: Don’t dish it out if you can’t take it in return.

    Being a “Bostonian” and “Newtonian” does not excuse you from berating, insulting, or otherwise chiding any of the posters here. Period. Especially when it’s the first time you’ve posted on this forum. Polite, humble, and smart first timers (on any forum) refrain from attacking or insulting the other posters. That is unless they’re trolls.

    So, miss Newtonian, Bostonian, niece of a priest, plastic Paddy, Limey, sister of an oil princess, friend of a scientist and god knows what other malarky you’ll pull out of your backside in a pathetic attempt to legitimize your increasingly incoherent and lunatic posts; put that in your pipe and smoke it.

    My guess is you’ll come return and tell us you’re a psychiatrist thus (in your mind) making you qualified to psychoanalyze the jihadis. Or us.

    Or you’ll claim that you’re married to a LEO in the Boston area and you’ll have some insider info and some big piece of the picture that all of us “uneducated, two brain-celled, inarticulate cretins” are just too stupid to comprehend thus making our opinions worthless.

    There, toots, there’s some more “poor me” material for you to whinge and whine about.

    You’ve been fed for the day.

    And just to get your knickers in a knot even more:

    Póg mo thóin, báirseach!

  112. says

    Thank you, thank you.

    I bet I could turn you on when I’m really angry.;)

    I hope you will forgive me for co-opting your “gun grabber” epithet.

    I did a one woman high-five in your honor when I read that.

  113. says

    Brava, Istanbul_Chick!! …you’re awesome and you nailed this woman and her discourse beautifully! Wow, I’m impressed!

    And I also stand by everything you’ve written–word for word–and without apology, too; although I don’t know what “Póg mo thóin, báirseach!” means; but what the heck, that too, lol!

    ~~~~~~~~~~

    And for the record, I never agreed to a truce, as Americana alleges, so she’s obviously lying. Hmm. And I only stated to CGW that I would take his suggestion to heart; in other words, I would think about it. I didn’t commit to anything since I don’t routinely jump into truce making willie-nillie unless both parties are willing. Americana isn’t willing, that much is clear, but instead she’s lying and pressing me for an apology that she will never get, nor does she deserve.

  114. says

    Thank you, Graven, for your detailed and polite breakdown and rebuttal of Americana’s posts.

    There was too much verbiage for me even contemplate tackling such a task.

    You, however, are legendary for taking on such unpleasant tasks and once again you have delivered for your fellow JW’rs!

  115. says

    Thank you, Champ.

    The final straw for me was when she singled you out for her pompous verbal diarrhea attack.

    Then she continued to attack you for *my* comments. She’s a loony.

    I left this thread determined not to feed her anymore, but out of curiosity (and perhaps masochism) checked back today and saw that other posters had been duped into engaging her rationally (to no avail as there’s nothing rational about her).

    I simply could not resist pointing out her egregious hypocrisy.

    P.s. If you stand by “Póg mo thóin, báirseach!”
    you stand by: Kiss my a$$, shrew/nag!”

  116. says

    You’re very welcome, Istanbul_Chick! Again, thank you, dear friend!

    P.s. If you stand by “Póg mo thóin, báirseach!”
    you stand by: Kiss my a$$, shrew/nag!”

    Yeah I totally stand by that! …and here I thought that “bairseach” meant b*tch, lol!

  117. says

    I rather doubt that, Graven, she really seems to enjoy being in the spotlight, even if it’s a negative spotlight.

    Unless… we all (myself included) stop engaging her.

    At this point it’s quite obvious that Jackdiamond was right all along.

  118. says

    Hi, DDA …

    “I observe that a clear, simple question, politely phrased, requiring a simple yes or no answer, was not answered.”

    Exactly!

  119. says

    Finally saw what you wrote about other posters and myself, CGW.

    Thanks!

    Although, I’m really a soft, squishy cupcake.

    And I’m more of a Sauer Patrol Rifle gal than an AK47 totin’ mama.;)

  120. says

    Well, I wanted to say a sawed-off 12-gauge shotgun with a 3-inch buckshot-loaded mag shell but it just didn’t seem refined enough. 😉