Possible human trafficking investigated at Saudi diplomatic compound in Virginia

Why on earth would someone in the Saudi diplomatic compound get involved in such a thing? Well, maybe because the Qur’an allows for the owning of sex slaves:

If you fear that you will not act justly towards the orphans, marry such women as seem good to you, two, three, four; but if you fear you will not be equitable, then only one, or what your right hands own; so it is likelier you will not be partial. (Qur’an 4:3)

This verse is the basis for Islamic polygamy, allowing a man to take as many as four wives, as long as he believes he is able to “deal justly” with all of them. But justice in these circumstances is in the eye of the beholder. Ibn Kathir says this the requirement to deal justly with one’s wives is no big deal, since treating them justly isn’t the same as treating them equally: “it is not obligatory to treat them equally, rather it is recommended. So if one does so, that is good, and if not, there is no harm on him.”

The verse goes on to say that if a man cannot deal justly with multiple wives, then he should marry only one, or resort to “what your right hands own” — that is, slave girls.

The Qur’an commentator Maulana Bulandshahri explains the wisdom of this practice, and longs for the good old days:

During Jihad (religion war), many men and women become war captives. The Amirul Mu”minin [leader of the believers, or caliph — an office now vacant] has the choice of distributing them amongst the Mujahidin [warriors of jihad], in which event they will become the property of these Mujahidin. This enslavement is the penalty for disbelief (kufr).

He goes on to explain that this is not ancient history:

None of the injunctions pertaining to slavery have been abrogated in the Shari”ah. The reason that the Muslims of today do not have slaves is because they do not engage in Jihad (religion war). Their wars are fought by the instruction of the disbelievers (kuffar) and are halted by the same felons. The Muslim [sic] have been shackled by such treaties of the disbelievers (kuffar) whereby they cannot enslave anyone in the event of a war. Muslims have been denied a great boon whereby every home could have had a slave. May Allah grant the Muslims the ability to escape the tentacles of the enemy, remain steadfast upon the Din (religion) and engage in Jihad (religion war) according to the injunctions of Shari”ah. Amen!

This is by no means an eccentric or unorthodox view in Islam. The Egyptian Sheikh Abu-Ishaq al-Huwayni declared in May 2011 that “we are in the era of jihad,” and that as they waged jihad warfare against infidels, Muslims would take slaves. He clarified what he meant in a subsequent interview:

…Jihad is only between Muslims and infidels”¦.Spoils, slaves, and prisoners are only to be taken in war between Muslims and infidels. Muslims in the past conquered, invaded, and took over countries. This is agreed to by all scholars–there is no disagreement on this from any of them, from the smallest to the largest, on the issue of taking spoils and prisoners. The prisoners and spoils are distributed among the fighters, which includes men, women, children, wealth, and so on.

When a slave market is erected, which is a market in which are sold slaves and sex-slaves, which are called in the Qur’an by the name milk al-yamin, “that which your right hands possess” [Qur’an 4:24]. This is a verse from the Qur’an which is still in force, and has not been abrogated. The milk al-yamin are the sex-slaves. You go to the market, look at the sex-slave, and buy her. She becomes like your wife, (but) she doesn’t need a (marriage) contract or a divorce like a free woman, nor does she need a wali. All scholars agree on this point–there is no disagreement from any of them. […] When I want a sex slave, I just go to the market and choose the woman I like and purchase her.

Right around the same time, on May 25, 2011, a female Kuwaiti activist and politician, Salwa al-Mutairi, also spoke out in favor of the Islamic practice of sexual slavery of non-Muslim women, emphasizing that the practice accorded with Islamic law and the parameters of Islamic morality.

…A merchant told me that he would like to have a sex slave. He said he would not be negligent with her, and that Islam permitted this sort of thing. He was speaking the truth”¦.I brought up (this man’s) situation to the muftis in Mecca. I told them that I had a question, since they were men who specialized in what was halal, and what was good, and who loved women. I said, “What is the law of sex slaves?” 

The mufti said, “With the law of sex slaves, there must be a Muslim nation at war with a Christian nation, or a nation which is not of the religion, not of the religion of Islam. And there must be prisoners of war.”

“Is this forbidden by Islam?,” I asked.

“Absolutely not. Sex slaves are not forbidden by Islam. On the contrary, sex slaves are under a different law than the free woman. The free woman must be completely covered except for her face and hands. But the sex slave can be naked from the waist up. She differs a lot from the free woman. While the free woman requires a marriage contract, the sex slave does not–she only needs to be purchased by her husband, and that’s it. Therefore the sex slave is different than the free woman.”

While the savage exploitation of girls and young women is an unfortunately cross-cultural phenomenon, only in Islamic law does it carry anything approaching divine sanction. Here is yet another human rights scandal occasioned by Islamic law that the international human rights community and the mainstream media cravenly ignore.

“Possible Human Trafficking Investigated at Saudi Diplomatic Compound in Virginia,” by Jackie Bensen for NBC Washington, May 1 (thanks to all who sent this in):

A case of “possible human trafficking” at a Saudi diplomatic compound in Virginia is under investigation, Homeland Security confirmed to News4.

Agents from U.S. Immigrations and Customs Enforcement/Homeland Security Investigations and Fairfax County police were called to a home in the 6000 block of Orris Street in McLean overnight and, in the words of a source familiar with the investigation, “rescued” two women. One woman reportedly tried to flee by squeezing through a gap in the front gate as it was closing.

It’s not clear if the women, who sources say are from the Philippines, called investigators to the home themselves or if someone else did.

“Homeland Security Investigations DC did encounter two potential victims of trafficking and the investigation is ongoing,” a D.C.-based spokesman for ICE/Homeland Security investigations told News4.

The investigation is in its very early stages and complicated by the possibility some of those involved may have diplomatic immunity.

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Comments

  1. says

    Why on earth, Robert, would you immediately jump to the conclusion these agencies meant to imply human trafficking for sexual purposes just because the U.S. Immigrations Dept. and Homeland Security Investigations unit of ICE said these two women from the Philippines were victims of a “potential case of human trafficking”?

    Saudis and other Middle Eastern nationalities often abuse foreigners in their domestic service who work in their homes and, I guess if this story is accurate, in their embassies as well, w/working long hours for little pay. The fact these women opted to chance escape is indicative there’s lots more to the story that will come out. There have been cases of sexual exploitation of domestics. There is also an entirely different subset of sexual trafficking abuse at the criminal level where women are trafficked internationally for the Middle East sex trade.

    http://www.cnn.com/2013/05/02/us/dc-diplomat-investigation/

    The two women, who are from the Philippines and currently work at the Saudi Embassy in Washington, claim they were mistreated, according to the State Department official.
    The women are charging, according to a different State Department official, that the Saudi attaché kept their passports, made them work extremely long hours and did not pay them. The source said they had not seen anything to indicate the women were physically harmed.
    The official also pointed out these allegations are similar to several other cases they heard from domestic workers who work for diplomats from the Persian Gulf.
    According to ICE, cases like this are very “victim-centric,” meaning that once there is “confirmation of suspicions,” authorities immediately go in and remove the victim and then begin the investigation.

    http://www.gvnet.com/humantrafficking/SaudiArabia.htm

    Saudi Arabia is a destination country for men and women trafficked for the purposes of involuntary servitude and, to a lesser extent, commercial sexual exploitation. Men and women from Bangladesh, India, Sri Lanka, Nepal, Pakistan, the Philippines, Indonesia, Sudan, Ethiopia, and many other countries voluntarily travel to Saudi Arabia as domestic servants or other low-skilled laborers, but some subsequently face conditions indicative of involuntary servitude, including restrictions on movement, withholding of passports, threats, physical or sexual abuse, and non-payment of wages. Women, primarily from Asian and African countries are also believed to have been trafficked into Saudi Arabia for commercial sexual exploitation; others were reportedly kidnapped and forced into prostitution after running away from abusive employers.
    Some Saudi men have also used legally contracted “temporary marriages” in countries such as Mauritania, Yemen, and Indonesia as a means by which to sexually exploit migrant workers. Females as young as seven years old are led to believe they are being wed in earnest, but upon arrival in Saudi Arabia subsequently become their husbands’ sexual slaves, are forced into domestic labor and, in some cases, prostitution. – U.S. State Dept Trafficking in Persons Report, June, 2009 [full country report]

  2. says

    Slavery never ceased in Saudi Arabia, it just goes by the name of buying and selling domestics.

    Homaidan al-Turki (and wife) was arrested in the U.S. for keeping a housekeeper as a sex slave over four years in Aurora, Co. (does the name Al-Turki sound familiar? Suspect no.1 in Boston? Yes, another illustrious member of the Al_Turki clan, joining those those dozen or so who went off to fight with Al Qaeda.)

    “His 2006 conviction angered Saudi officials and prompted the U.S. State Department to send Colorado Attorney General John Suthers to Saudi Arabia to meet with King Abdullah, Crown Prince Sultan and al-Turki’s family.

    Al-Turki brought his wife, five children and the housekeeper to Colorado in 1995 and was a student at the University of Colorado.

    According to court documents, al-Turki first came under investigation when authorities examined whether his operation of a business violated terms of his student visa. Al-Turki owned Al-Basheer Publications & Translations, which distributed Islamic works in English and holds the copyright to recordings by U.S.-born radical cleric Anwar al-Awlaki, who was killed in a 2011 drone strike in Yemen”.

    >> recordings by Anwar al-Awlaki.

    In proclaiming his innocence Al-Turki claimed the United States was criminalizing basic Muslim behaviors.

    >>Yes indeed. Basic Muslim behaviors should be criminal here. It might keep them away.

    “Al-Turki denied having enslaved the woman or abused her. To the contrary, he insisted that he treated the woman the same way any observant Islamic family would treat a daughter. He then went on and accused the authorities of persecuting him for being a Muslim.

    ‘Your honor, I am not here to apologize, for I cannot apologize for things I did not do and for crimes I did not commit. The state has criminalized these basic Muslim behaviors. Attacking traditional Muslim behaviors was the focal point of the prosecution’.

    >>Assume any domestic with these freaks is a forced labor slave/sex slave and needs to be freed, not let in the country for continued abuse.

    Diplomatic immunity is an ugly fact of life.

  3. says

    I’d agree, jack. We need to find a way to qualify diplomatic immunity. Perhaps diplomatic immunity should be qualified in advance by our government in the case of countries like Saudi Arabia and Kuwait w/known patterns of human trafficking crimes. Have Saudi and Kuwaiti diplomats sign waivers that if those listed crimes are indulged in on American soil, then we insist the foreign individual be eligible for prosecution regardless of diplomatic status. There may be a sudden shrinking of the Saudi and Kuwaiti delegations…

  4. says

    Jeez, don’t people know when they’ve ordered a pizza?

    Haddon was also Hunter Thompson’s lawyer and friend, and in 1988 was Gary Hart’s campaign manager. He has a high-profile record of success, that’s why the Saudis hired him. If they do link al-Turki to the murder and charge him they better have a damn air tight case.

  5. says

    I have heard of this from more than one American who has lived in Saudi Arabia and had personal experience with Saudi families who kept slaves, calling them “domestics,” and who brought these slaves with them when traveling abroad.

    Public slave auctions were a common occurence until the late President Kennedy whispered in the Saudi kings ear and told him that this was an issue with the United States.

    It’s obvious that slavery has continued, just disguised by some other name.

  6. says

    Buraq —— Have you forgotten my sister has lived there for 30 years? She has had servants. She’s known every other family of means to have servants. Not every family abuses their servants sexually. She knew of only a couple of instances where there was sexual abuse going on.

    There’s a huge difference between knowing something for a fact and suggesting something is universal in such cases of domestics being abused. Three times now, Robert has suggested that there is Muslim sexual slavery going on in different cases. If this was simply a case of abuse of domestics by overwork, minimal salary, no benefits, no time off, etc., etc., it’s definitely not necessarily inclusive of sexual abuse as well. We will hear the truth eventually. It’s too juicy to leave out of the trial.

  7. says

    Thanks gravenimage.

    Leaving aside what someone’s sister heard or saw, how many bedrooms she must have had a chance to discretely observe to know such things, what gossip went around among friends of means…

    The situation in Saudi Arabia and behavior among the Saudi royals is well-known to the point of becoming cliche. Child-slavery (bin laden, good Saudi, used child slaves in Sudan to work his marijuana fields), human trafficking, forced prostitution, tales of naive Western models peddled off to dissolute princelings…there are endless anecdotes and plenty of reasons why SA is a Tier 3 country concerning human trafficking, as there are the familiar stories of Saudi money and influence making all trouble go away when an offender is actually caught.

    As for the what foreign domestics can look forward to:

    >>The London Times reported: “The Philippines Government, responding to dozens of tragic cases of maltreatment, has warned young women going to work as maids in Saudi Arabia that they will be sexually harassed by Saudi men and slapped and tortured by their Saudi mistresses… “You have to ward off advances by your master, his brother, son and other male members of the household…” “The Philippines labor ministry has also told young male workers heading to Saudi Arabia that they must expect to be at risk of rape.”

    Robert Spencer is describing the basis for slavery, and sex slavery, in Islam. It is sanctioned. It is alive and well in the home of Islam.

  8. says

    ”. She knew of only a couple of instances where there was sexual abuse going on.”

    Oh, only a **couple** of instances. Well, that’s OK, then !

    And did she *do* anything about it, I wonder ? I doubt it very much. Sisters of a feather flock together.

  9. says

    I consider your comment offensive, Jan. You intended it to be offensive. What you also don’t realize is that it’s also idiotic. Think I should ask Robert to remove your comment because it’s slanderous? Actually, this type of legal conundrum is one of the reasons why my sister retired from Middle Eastern academia, because, like me, her tendency is to speak out. The fact there is little to no recourse under Saudi law leaves outsiders doing what exactly? Well, the following for one thing…

    I work on international FGM (Female Genital Mutilation) and slavery/trafficking issues and there isn’t always a means of helping these women and men. Their families back home need the money. As little as their pay may be in Saudi Arabia et al as a domestic, it’s usually far more than what they make at home in their own countries. Aside from paying for transportation home and giving them a bit of travel money and contacting the American embassy to have embassy personnel handle the legal hassles of their host stealing their passport, there’s really not a straightforward solution.

    Some of my suggested solutions:
    1) A master list of KNOWN HUMAN TRAFFICKING FAMILIES by country so people can check on those who’ve made them offers as to prior records for treatment of their domestics,
    2) Welfare checks several times post-arrival by personnel from their home embassies on those coming into these countries to work as domestics,
    3) International diplomatic insistence that Saudi Arabia and other Gulf countries set up agencies to deal w/foreign workers, etc.

    I could go on but I wouldn’t say that working legally for the above practices to be adopted exactly qualifies as “doing nothing.”

  10. says

    Exactly what do you propose my sister would have done, Jan? Have you ever lived anywhere in the Middle East? How many different Muslim governments have you lived under w/their Shar’iah law? There is not much legal recourse for these domestics and my sister couldn’t do anything other than assist them w/a Middle East version of the Underground Railroad. Until we have more international pressure brought to bear on the Gulf states over the state of human trafficking in their countries, we’re rather dead in the water. Ultimately, the changes must come from within.

    My aim is to help women like the Ethiopian woman author Yemodish Bekeles break the entire Middle Eastern trafficking business and the mistreatment of women as it exists now, that’s why I’m active on both FGM (Female Genital Mutilation) and human trafficking issues in the Gulf countries. I’d like to see the following changes be made throughout the Gulf’s Muslim countries where human trafficking of this nature is found:

    1) Legal recourse for domestics who claim abuse which can be triggered by them notifying embassy personnel conducting welfare checks on them at their homes of employment;
    2) Passports to be held in custody by their home embassies once they arrive in country — not taken away by their employers;
    3) Minimum wage to be enacted across all Muslim Gulf countries and supervised through the entire bank transfer process;
    4) Immediate restitution if there is abuse and setting of amounts for restitution across all Muslim Gulf countries; etc., etc.

    I could go on but, if it’s not obvious, the above would be a good start at curbing or stopping human trafficking in the Gulf states. I’d hardly say we’re “doing nothing” based on promoting the above. We are only one side of the cultural battle, the other side is the Ethiopians themselves:

    http://www.ezega.com/News/NewsDetails.aspx?NewsID=2773

    http://woyingi.wordpress.com/category/africa-the-continent/countries-ethiopia/ethiopian-women/

    http://ethiopianwomenunleashed.org/profile_detail.php?PId=37))

  11. says

    Ooops, sort of went off on a tangent about the Ethiopians because of the FGM issue. The point is, the Gulf’s Arab countries must begin to face the internal disputes over issues w/human trafficking. What better way than to levy international sanctions against families who have conducted themselves in this way? What better way to levy financial penalties against these trafficking employers? Legal steps taken on an international level will help to address this issue.

  12. says

    Thanks, Peter and gravenimage !

    In the words of the inimitable Corporal Jones, ”they don’t like it up’em !”

  13. says

    AMereConJob,

    Work we me here. As a freethinking woman I thought you’d knock this one out of the ballpark.

    My suggestion on another post still a might strong? I’ll soften it for a softie…

    Muhammad was no more a prophet than a tomato is a vegetable. From a distance it may look like an apple, but when you get up close and grasp it firmly the mess it creates is all telling.

    Squishy enough?

    You’re a natural at cut and paste so have at it.

  14. says

    Hi Amrika!

    I lived and worked in Saudi during the 1990s. It was common for the sons of rich families to take their maids over to each other’s houses and swap them for an afternoon in bed and then compare notes.

    These maids had surrendered their passports and were entirely dependent on their Saudi employer to transfer their salary to their hungry families abroad.

    You see where the pressure could come from to give in to sex on a whim when you’re held in these conditions? I’ll bet you a dollar to a dime these Filipino maids are in exactly the same situation.

    You’re a clown!

  15. says

    Interesting that you would post that, jackdiamond. This story is still alive here in Colorado and I had just finished some research on it.

    A Fox 31 reporter and none other than former congressman Tom Tancredo himself continue to probe the “coincidences” in this case with respect to the murder of our state chief of prisons. In the face of continuing pressure form Saudi Arabia–and our OWN justice department–it appears a deal was reached to allow this muslim criminal to “serve his remaining sentence” in Saudi Arabia. The man who nixed the deal–the only one to refuse to sign-off? Prison chief Tom Clements, the man “coincidentally” murdered at his front door. The murderer? A fellow inmate of our friend al-Turki. And, that’s not all there is to ponder–just the barest thumbnail sketch.

    Reporter Julie Hayden and Mr. Tancredo are probing this every way they can–but as you might guess, no one involved is volunteering anything. In any case, Saudi influence appears to have penetrated deeply into this state–aided an abetted by the DOJ. It’s scary, it’s disgusting, and it showcases the long reach of the Saudis into our institutions and processes…

  16. says

    I thought the suspect #1 in the Boston Marathon’s name was al-Harbi?

    Doesn’t really matter though. Just another Saudi scumbag…

  17. says

    Why all the Sunni bashing? Serve up some dirt on the Ayatollah run whorehouses in Iran. A doctrinally sanctioned whorehouse, now that’s juicy fair. Systematic abasement of the delicate flowers of Islam at the hand of the pious Shia. Too close to home?

  18. says

    “Americana” wrote:

    Why on earth, Robert, would you immediately jump to the conclusion these agencies meant to imply human trafficking for sexual purposes just because the U.S. Immigrations Dept. and Homeland Security Investigations unit of ICE said these two women from the Philippines were victims of a “potential case of human trafficking”?

    Saudis and other Middle Eastern nationalities often abuse foreigners in their domestic service who work in their homes and, I guess if this story is accurate, in their embassies as well, w/working long hours for little pay…
    ……………………………….

    What crap”these are not separate issues. Islam sanctions both slavery *and* sexual slavery, and many cases of Islamic”and specifically Saudi”human trafficking have involved the seizing of passports, forced labor for long hours without pay, *and* sexual abuse.

    To pretend to be shocked that sexual abuse is frequently part of the whole slimy package is disingenuous.

  19. says

    Thanks for the update, this after the initial suggestion there might be a connection to the Saudi in this murder was met with howling accusations of Islamophobia…

    “A source told the (Denver) Post al-Turki “has tons of money” he transfers “from account to account” through operatives outside the prison.

    Investigators are also examining commissary records and phone conversations.

    Al-Turki’s lawyer, Hal Haddon, said the suggestion his client was involved in the death of Clements is “outrageous.”

    “He’s been in prison seven years,” Haddon said. “He is not a man of great means. He was a Ph.D. candidate at the University of Colorado.”
    >>nudge nudge wink wink

    Haddon is a powerhouse (read expensive) lawyer who has represented the likes of Kobe Bryant (successfully) in his sex-abuse trial.
    Somehow this man of no great means can afford the best defense attorney around.

    Hopefully those transfers of “tons of money” can be traced and those who can trace them will.

  20. says

    Jack,

    Here’s one Julie and Tom reported on a local radio station earlier this week:

    Two months ago, Mr. Clement’s killer dressed himself in a pizza delivery uniform and hat (taken from a poor pizza delivery guy he’d murdered for it two days earlier) to trick him (Clements) into opening his front door. During the investigation of al-Turki, years before, the LEO’s were frustrated that no one at his residence would come to the door. Guess what they did? That’s right–dressed one of their agents in a pizza delivery uniform and hat–and it worked–al-Turki (or someone) opened the door. Hmmmm…

    BTW, Hal Haddon also represented John and the late Patsy Ramsey. He’s a daddy Warbucks liberal mouthpiece, but I’m sure his price is not too high for the Saudis…

    G

  21. says

    Hi, Western Canadian,

    Just want to say that–to be fair–there’s at least one MSM outlet (KDVR/Fox 31) here with a reporter going full-tilt to crack the case. And at least one radio station (KHOW) that’s rpeorting anything she gets. That’s one more of each than usual! Even the left-wing Denver Post ran an editorial adjuring the governor not to release this muslim perv. You coulda’ knocked me over with a feather!

    G

  22. says

    Yes you are correct, my bad. I wrote that more quickly than usual, kind of like a lot of reporting nowadays. I was confusing some al-Turkis with some al-Harbis. Apologies to Veritas, Goddess of Truth.

    Interestingly enough, the Saudi Interior Ministry spokesman is named Major General Mansour al-Turki. The Al-Turki clans influence is such that Colorado Attorney General John Suthers traveled to Saudi Arabia to meet the King Abdullah for 3 days regarding the case. This is so similar to the influence of the Al Harbi clan (or the Al-Ghamdi clan or the Al-Ruwais clan…) it gets easy to confuse them all as one and the same.

    “The Clan Ghamdi, on its official website Ghamid.com, proudly responded with a long martyrs list entitled, “Ghamdis the Mujahideen”, priding themselves on having given up two of their young men (#3 Ahmed Ghamdi and #4 Hamza Saleh Ghamdi) to martyrdom when they destroyed the South Tower in Manhattan on 9/11.

    They are listed as “martyrs” and “heroes” with comments like “definitely, sons to be proud of”. The Ghamdi martyrs list is too long to list them all here, but perhaps we can include a few from the al-Qaeda martyrs list of the Muslim fallen in Afghanistan at the hands of the “American Crusaders”; #25 is Abdul-Rahman Ghamdi and #61 is Saeed Ghamdi and #134, Abu Zubayr Ghamdi. It even includes a relative of Khalid Aldawsari #130 Faisal Aldawsari killed in Torah Bora while serving Al-Qaeda.

    The parents of the Ghamdis who participated in 9/11 were proud of him. Countless Muslim websites describe them as “the lions of Manhattan. May Allah house them in paradise”.

    Khalid, Bush’s intended killer, was not a lone wolf. He was backed by an entire system – the wealthy and powerful Aldawsari clan – including the powerful Sheik Saud Bin Mut’ab, who hosted a support group for the terrorist, defending him publicly while funding his legal team.

    Just translate “We are all Khalid Dawsari” to Arabic and see just how much support the terrorist gets. The Aldawsari clan’s main website (alduwasser.net) keeps track of everything that goes with every comment in support of the terrorist linking to other supporting groups.

    Another Aldawsari, the Saudi poet and well-known preacher Hafiz bin “Ajab Aldawsari, who on March 14, 2012, devoted a sermon to Filiz Gelowicz, an imprisoned German jihad supporter and wife of Fritz Gelowicz, a German convert from the “Sauerland Cell,” which allegedly plotted attacks in Germany on behalf of the Islamic Jihad Union in 2007. Hafiz Aldawsari urged Muslims to come to her aid – with donations and weapons – stating that freeing Muslim prisoners held by the “infidels” is a supreme religious duty.

    Both Aldawsari clan as well as Ghamdi clan official websites openly supports terrorism.”

    –http://frontpagemag.com/2013/walid-shoebat/we-are-above-the-law-so-say-the-saudis/

  23. says

    Jack, in the comparatively short time you have been commenting here, you have proven a knowledgeable and informative poster. Thanks.

  24. says

    Hi American, in replying to Jan you said:

    You intended it to be offensive. What you also don’t realize is that it’s also idiotic. Think I should ask Robert to remove your comment because it’s slanderous?

    Well if you do that then I am going to ask Robert to put it back and make sure he doubles the size of the font so that her post will be easily found by anyone visiting this particular news item. Just in case Robert, could you also make Jan’s comments to American flash so I can find them easier. If you can put them on a T-Shirt (Xtra large) I am willing to pay for the costs. I will pay double if the comments on the T-Shirt flash.

    You call Jan’s comment slanderous. I don’t see how unless you mean slander in the way Islam uses that term. As I understand that particular usage, your complaint would be that Jan’s comments (question?) illuminated a truth that you do not want anyone else knowing.

    You may be right that Jan’s comment is offensive but only in its proper usage for debate. That is, as a logical offence (i.e. refutation) of an assertion made by the opposing debater.

    Her comments definitely could not be construed as offensive in the Political Correctness misuse of the term (i.e. hurtful). This is especially true because she asked a question.

    You call yourself Americana but you are sooooo undeserving of that honorific. True Americans believe in freedom of speech. The very fact that you would even suggest Robert Spencer remove Jan’s comment suggests you have not come very far in attaining an understanding of what America stands for.

    Regarding the question that Jan asked you, she was right to do so and you should not be ‘offended’ by the question.

    A number of decades ago I was a practice teacher and at one of the schools in which I was ‘learning the trade’ I happened to hear a conversation between two male teachers. They were looking out over the school yard and comparing notes about the female students with whom they had had sex!

    Not so long ago, I was telling this story to a friend as a result of an article I had read that showed that the above type of misbehavior was becoming an epidemic in schools in the USA. The context of the story is different than what I relate above but the idea was the same.

    http://www.wnd.com/2013/04/39783/

    Anyway, the FIRST question that came from my friends mouth was,”what did you do about it” and I had to admit that I did nothing.

    The reply I got back was: “Then you are just as bad as those two teachers. By saying nothing you condoned their action.”

    In thinking about it I knew my friend was right and at least as far as this story was concerned I had fallen from grace. I was tested and was found wanting.

    I am grateful to my friend for pointing out my moral lapse and as far as I’m concerned you should be grateful to Jan for doing something simlar for you.

    I appreciate your efforts on behalf of countering FGM but those activities do not remove the moral blame if you did nothing regarding the abused servants of whom you had knowledge; unless you intended your work against FGM as an act of contrition. If so, good work but don’t treat Jan’s question as offensive. Especially do not categorize her comments as idiotic. Jihad Watchers know her comments can never by categorized in this way.

    Although Jan is not American I’m sure, considering her knowledge if she is given enough time she may be able to get you to the point where you are worthy of calling yourself Americana. Good luck on that, those are hard shoes to fill.

  25. says

    “Americana” wrote:

    I consider your comment offensive, Jan.
    ……………………………

    You consider *Jan’s* comment “offensive”? If only you appeared to consider the appalling matter at hand nearly so offensive…

    And Jan’s statement is *not* slander. It makes no false claims whatsoever. Her sort of question, however, would, however, be barred under Islam, because it “makes you look bad”. Make of that what you will.

    More:

    You intended it to be offensive. What you also don’t realize is that it’s also idiotic. Think I should ask Robert to remove your comment because it’s slanderous?
    ……………………………

    Knock yourself out…

    More:

    Actually, this type of legal conundrum is one of the reasons why my sister retired from Middle Eastern academia, because, like me, her tendency is to speak out. The fact there is little to no recourse under Saudi law leaves outsiders doing what exactly?
    ……………………………

    More bland phrasing”opposing slavery and sexual slavery in Dar-al-Islam is a “legal conundrum”. Well, yes it “because slavery and sexual slavery is not punished in that pious land, and is, in fact, widely practiced by members of the royal family itself.

    More:

    Aside from paying for transportation home and giving them a bit of travel money and contacting the American embassy to have embassy personnel handle the legal hassles of their host stealing their passport, there’s really not a straightforward solution.
    ……………………………

    Saudis stealing their servant’s passports is not a “hassle””it means that the person cannot leave the country, nor even their “employer’s” service. This is the very definition of slavery. The Saudi authorities do *nothing* to help these people. And why would they?

    And American authorities are only involved in this case because it involves the Saudi diplomatic compound in the United States”most abused domestics”certainly those in Saudi Arabia”have no such recourse.

    Even here, this will prove difficult, since embassies, consulates, and diplomatic compounds are legally considered the sovereign soil of the embassy’s home nation. That the Saudi’s would even try such a thing here in the US shows their profound disdain for civilized Infidel law.

    More:

    Some of my suggested solutions:
    2) Welfare checks several times post-arrival by personnel from their home embassies on those coming into these countries to work as domestics…
    ……………………………

    If countries like the Philippines had money for these sort of welfare programs, then their citizens would not resort to heading off to places like Saudi Arabia to work.

    Moreover, since these Saudis are seizing their domestics’ passports and refusing to pay them their earned wages, what would make anyone believe that these same human traffickers would cheerily hand over welfare checks to these same slaves?

    More:

    3) International diplomatic insistence that Saudi Arabia and other Gulf countries set up agencies to deal w/foreign workers, etc.
    ……………………………

    This posits the idea that the oppressive Saudi authorities really intend to aid these victims, but simply lack the bureaucratic structure to do so. Who here believes this tripe?

    And we are supposed to take the word of a known Muslim apologist that she is hard at work fightin’ the good fight, first against FGM and now against human trafficking.

    More:

    Exactly what do you propose my sister would have done, Jan? Have you ever lived anywhere in the Middle East? How many different Muslim governments have you lived under w/their Shar’iah law? There is not much legal recourse for these domestics and my sister couldn’t do anything other than assist them w/a Middle East version of the Underground Railroad. Until we have more international pressure brought to bear on the Gulf states over the state of human trafficking in their countries, we’re rather dead in the water. Ultimately, the changes must come from within.
    ……………………………

    Good luck with that. The Saudis only ended the practice of slavery”to the extent that they ever did”because of Western, primarily American, pressure brought to bear. They didn’t officially end slavery until *1962*”well after the middle of the 20th century”before that a Muslim could simply go to a slave market and *buy a human being*.

    More:

    My aim is to help women like the Ethiopian woman author Yemodish Bekeles break the entire Middle Eastern trafficking business and the mistreatment of women as it exists now…
    ……………………………

    Have to take your word on that one. The only information I can find on-line regarding Yemodish Bekeles is a vague reference to her being an Ethiopian writer and poet.

    By the way, African nation Ethiopia is not typically considered a part of the Middle East.

    More:

    The point is, the Gulf’s Arab countries must begin to face the internal disputes over issues w/human trafficking.
    ……………………………

    Again, bland phrasing”wanting to enslave your domestics and wanting to be free from being enslaved are both simply “internal disputes”.

    And why should pious Muslims face this at all? This is all perfectly Halal.

    The only chance is external pressure from civilized Infidels”beginning with a thorough investigation on those reports of Saudi human trafficking in Virginia, the rescue of the victims, and the diplomatic ouster of all those involved.

  26. says

    Peter Shearer wrote, replying to “Americana”:

    I appreciate your efforts on behalf of countering FGM…
    ………………………..

    I’d take her claims with a large grain of salt, Peter””Americana” has shown up here as a particularly nasty Muslim apologist. I’m not sure I’d take her sudden insistence that she is working against human trafficking, nor her previous assertion that she is fighting against FGM, at face value.

    It is possible, of course”but it in no way gibes with the rest of her comments here.

  27. says

    Hi G.I. Thanx for the heads-up about Americana. I should have guessed as much myself.

    One thing I will warn you about. You shouldn’t give medical advice at Jihad Watch. I tried out your suggestion about taking a large grain of “salt Peter” before accepting an assertion of truth from Americana. Now I’m paying the price for doing so and I suspect I will continue to do so for quite some time. In your defense, the pharmacist did warn me about the side effects of this chemical. Mea culpa I suppose.

    No big deal! I’ve learned my lesson. Next time I see an Americana posting I will only take a small grain of salt Peter. It’s a good thing I’m an analyst.

    Be well G.I. Talk to yah soon.

  28. says

    My pleasure Jan.

    By the way, I saw your post to me a few weeks back regarding my reply to Darmanad. I’m glad you enjoyed it.

    Below, is a link to my reply to you. Among other things it provides two links to a humorous reply I made to another poster at Jihad Watch. If you decide to follow the link I hope you get a chuckle or two for making the effort.

    http://www.jihadwatch.org/2013/04/long-island-hundreds-rally-for-free-speech-and-ouster-of-islamic-supremacist-habeeb-ahmed-from-human.html#comment-938295

    Take care Jan. Good to talk to yah as always.

  29. says

    Peter Shearer wrote:

    One thing I will warn you about. You shouldn’t give medical advice at Jihad Watch. I tried out your suggestion about taking a large grain of “salt Peter” before accepting an assertion of truth from Americana. Now I’m paying the price for doing so and I suspect I will continue to do so for quite some time…
    …………………….

    Ouch! I just knew that sending away for that mail-order medical degree would prove to be a mistake…:)

    More, from another thread:

    By the way, up until a few months back I used to be able do a google search and find jihad watch articles that went back years. Now, when I do this, the best I can get are posts in 2013 and if I’m lucky 2012. Does anyone know why this is?
    …………………….

    I’ve noticed that myself, Peter. Sometimes even googling recent Jihad Watch stories will lead to a list of other her sites that reprinted the stories, but not to JW itself.

    Odd, and frustrating.

    One good thing”Jihad Watch’s internal search function, which you can access on the right hand side of the home page, appears to be rather better than it used to be. At one time, it was so inadequate that I almost never used it. Give it a try.

  30. says

    Hi G.I. Thanx for pointing out the indigenous search function for J.W. It sounds like it might solve most of my research problems.

    Also, thanx for confirming the possible problem with Google search vis-a-vis this site. I now can stop trying to figure out what I’m doing wrong when looking up classic Jihad Watch postings.

    TTFN G.I. Talk to ya soon

    P.S. – Is it still okay to address you as G.I. or must I address you as Dr. G.I. now that I know about your mail-order degree.

  31. says

    You’d better stick with G.I., Peter”I wouldn’t want to deal from the fallout from impersonating a medical professional! :)