Egyptian army tells Morsi he is no longer president

This doesn’t mean, of course, that Sharia and Islamization are dead in Egypt. It isn’t even necessarily the end of Muslim Brotherhood rule. We shall see.

“Live from Egypt: latest developments,” from Al Arabiya, July 3:

6:50 pm The Egyptian army told Islamist President Mohammed Mursi at 7 pm that he was no longer president, state-run Al-Ahram newspaper quotes presidency source as saying

6:30 pm Egypt to see short interim period followed by legislative, presidential elections: state news agency

5:30 pm U.S. ‘very concerned’ about situation on ground in Egypt

5:30 pm: Islamic Legitimate Body rejects deposing of Mursi against people’s will

4:53 pm We do not know where Egyptian President Mohammed Mursi is now, aide tells CNN

4:49 pm Army vehicles deployed near an Islamist gathering in Cairo, AFP reported

4:40 pm Sheikh Al-Azhar stressed to the army chief the importance of Egyptian unity, newspaper sources

MabroukMorsi.jpg

“The Muslim Brotherhood will have a significant role to play in post-Mubarak Egypt. And that is good thing.” — Reza Aslan

Hamas-linked CAIR, other Muslim Brotherhood groups and spokesmen in U.S. crestfallen over Morsi's ouster
Egypt: Brother of al-Qaeda top dog Zawahiri vows jihad if Muslim Brotherhood government is removed
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Comments

  1. says

    Don’t worry Morsi. The muslim brotherhood elements in the white house have your back. They will take care of you.

  2. says

    Game over.
    The Muslim Brotherhood in Egypt, its birthplace, is DEAD. The Muslims Brotherhood worldwide will soon follow. The Obama administration will follow.
    This is a great day for all freedom lovers.

  3. says

    And yet again – we see the “fruits” of Obama’s feckless and reckless foreign policy, which has amounted to nothing but unmitigated disasters in Libya, Egypt, inter alia.

    This is what you get when you – not once, but twice – elect a Marxist fool to the highest office in the land. This failure of his is a direct result of his deposing of Mubarak, and insistence on the calling for early elections, which ushered his MB buddy, Morsi, into power.

    Now look at it all! What an embarrassing mess!

    China thinks we’re fools, Russia openly gives the Obama admin. the middle finger; Israel, Germany, France and others are openly distrustful of the Americans and…oh, forget it. The only good thing about Egypt is the MB is, literally, running for their lives.

    This is what America gets for electing a dog-eating, meddling, rat-eared idiot in chief;anything he touches turns to sh*t.

    Simple as that.

    I hope the Egyptian people can make souffle out of caca – I really do, though I must admit to a healthy dose of satisfaction at seeing the Mohammedists no longer in immediate control of the ship.

  4. says

    A good thing, Reza? Yeah, it’s good for islamic supremacists who wish to make all men and women slaves to an evil ideology. No thank you. What a full blown fool you are.

  5. says

    Egyptian army tells Morsi he is no longer president
    ……………………………..

    Well, I am”*very guardedly*”hopeful that this is a positive development.

    And as always, how grim is it when a *military coup* is a probable best-case scenario?

    Also, much as I hate Morsi, I take it as a good sign that the army didn’t “tell” Morsi he was no longer president by”sorry to be so crude”*ss-raping him with a stick and murdering him, as happened with Gadaffi in neighboring Libya. Because that sort of thing is *never* a good sign for the future.

    More:

    This doesn’t mean, of course, that Sharia and Islamization are dead in Egypt. It isn’t even necessarily the end of Muslim Brotherhood rule. We shall see.
    ……………………………..

    Yes. I’m hoping the Egyptian Army will prove more “moderate”, but considering some of their past behavior towards the threatened Copts, democratic demonstrators, and the Israelis, I’m not sure we can say Shari’ah is dead along the Nile. And the Army has been close-lipped, in any case”did they object to Shari’ah, to the Muslim Brotherhood, or just to Morsi himself? Time will tell, indeed…

    Getting hard numbers has proven impossible, but it is clear that while there were definitely large numbers of Egyptians demonstrating against Shari’ah and for an at least somewhat more democratic Egypt, there have also been significant numbers of “Islamists” demonstrating for immediate imposition of full Shari’ah and attacks on Israel.

    Maybe the Army acted in part because they realized that whatever their hatred of the “filthy Jooooos”, that they had no interest in being on the front lines of an attack on the much superior Israeli forces.

    More:

    5:30 pm U.S. ‘very concerned’ about situation on ground in Egypt
    ……………………………..

    Whatever the situation, it is clear that the Obama administration has consistently backed the “Islamist” faction. Utterly shameful. And now their claims that they only did so because this was the wish of the vast majority of the Egyptian people seems highly questionable at best.

  6. says

    A recently deceased Canadian columnest, Peter Worthington (Sun News), suggested more than months ago, that if things in Egypt went to far, the military would take action.

    Right so far.

    He also suggested hat it would prove to be a very good thing, as it would bring stability and legimate moderation to the area…

    He spent a considerable part of his career covering the middle east.

    Let’s all hope he is going to be two for two, for as long as the middle east can stand it, and even longer than that.

  7. says

    I am happy for Egypt and sad ..in the same time

    Why this couldn’t be happening in Syria too .. why ? .. Most syrians now want the dictator basher who is well known, have killed thousands of sunnis … but still they want him back knowing at least under him there is still SOME FREEDOM TO SPEACK OF .

    The dictator Bashar is the lesser EVIL … THAT I THOUGHT I WILL NEVER SAY … but it is the truth … he is LESS lethal then the thugs of Islamic Sunnis who want sharia in place .

    He is with all his faults have always encourage women to flourish and hired them in government jobs and never forced women to cover OR NOT cover … yes he and his family are corrupt .. yes they thieved the country of it’s resources … yes they ran corrupted laughable elections where people wore forced to vote ” yes ” …what with all this, they are still better then the intolerant islamic thugs sunni Muslims.

    Must Syrians want squalor life and lost everything to get it, and it is still up in the air if they ever will get it !!

    I am so glad Egypt didn’t have to go through this kind of blood shed and total destruction.

  8. says

    Reading Spencer’s introductory blurb of guarded optimism (whereas our optimism about any Muslims anywhere on the planet should be not only guarded but sentenced for life in solitary confinement without possibility for payrole), and reading some of the fantasy-based gushing about a New Dawn for the Egyptian People (i.e., for millions of Muslims for fuck sake) from the gallery above, I feel like I’m in the Twilight Zone.

    A dimension of sight…

    A dimension of mind…

    You’re moving into a land of both shadows and substance…

    …of things and of ideas…

    You’ve just crossed over into…

    The De-Nile Zone.

  9. says

    Well, I see we’re all just positively giddy over this. Really?

    So, the Egyptians got their first democratically-elected president ousted…via military coup…triggered by street-mob. Is this how democracies do things? What about the next muslim in line? If he’s too “islamic,” or not “islamic” enough, just call out the mob and the generals move in, suspend the constitution and cart him off? No procedure for this; just riot, military, out he goes?

    And by the way, how many of these “freedom fighters” have renounced islam? How about just anti-semitism? How many women raped in Tahrir Square so far? Weren’t the Copts warned not to get involved? Just who voted for Morsi in the first place? And, are these the same “freedom fighters” who attacked our embassy last September 11?

    Guess I’m just a “Negative Nancy’ here. Sorry–please jump for joy if you want–but I’m not popping any champagne corks over this…

  10. says

    And it may not be insignificant that the two most idealistic, enthusiastic and utopian commenters above (miriam and Salah) are ex-Muslims.

    Knowing what they should know about Muslims, ex-Muslims should be the most pessimistic and jaded about any and all apparent signs of Muslim reform.

  11. says

    George and Lemonlime, you don’t get it.
    This is HUGE, this is what we were hoping for for a long time here on JW. This is not the perfect solution yet, but this is a start, and good one.
    Finally, moderate muslims (not islam) stood up to the tyranny of the MB. Finally they said NO to this terrorist organization, NO to violence and NO to the islamic rule. That’s what Iranians and Turks are trying to do without success thanks to the inaction and the complicity of the Obama administration. The Egyptian people (not a mob) stood up for freedom and equality for all citizens including Christians. Will it happen on the ground? only time will tell. But for now, moderate muslims said NO to terrorism, they did it peacefully and THIS is HUGE.
    P.S. I’m not an ex-muslim, I’m a Catholic, same as Robert.

  12. says

    Reza Aslan, hiding under Nathan Lean’s bed, was unavailable to comment…

    In all seriousness, nothing will change. A Muslim-dominated Arab country supposedly voted for and got what it wanted with the election of the Mohammed du jour. Any “truthful” Muslim, who considers themselves pious cannot reconcile the ouster of what they wanted, and what Morsi was selling, by hook or by crook…sharia.

    This dog and pony show was simply a youth movement, looking for sharia-lite, peddled by a different Mohammed. Until there is a collective wholesale abandonment of Islam by the Egyptian populace, there is no possible pipe-dream actualization of a western style democracy. There is only a military dictatorship or sharia.

    Knowing the current state of the US republic, western-style democracy does not seem so appealing at the moment, however.

  13. says

    I think both sides of the spectrum of JW posters here are in-part correct.

    On the one hand, it is a great day to see the tide of MoBro/Islamicists turned back even if only temporarily and in one country. Until now the MoBro seemed to be on an unstoppable roll across the Middle East. Any tilt to moderation even if only slight that comes from within the Arab world is a good thing for us and lowers the threat level that could adversely affect the rest of humanity.

    On the other hand, the alternative to the MoBros are not exactly liberal democrats in any Western sense. The opposition still burned Israeli flags (which is quite funny given that the Israelis would be one of the last people on earth to want the MoBros ruling their southern border and in contiguity with their Hamas cousin offshoots who rule Gaza). General Al-Sisi is himself a devout Muslim who was picked by Morsi when he ousted the previous head of SCAF. Also, the opposition leader El Baradei is himself vehemently anti-Israel if not also anti-Semitic. Plus, it is still way too early to say what direction the politics go from here.

    So far, it’s hard with any confidence to say more than that for now, we have the lesser of two evils in charge.

  14. says

    Here’s an analogy to illustrate how flummoxed and angry I feel about fellow Jihad Watchers gushing over in enthusiasm over the propsect of millions of Muslims reforming overnight (as can be seen, copiously and painfully, on reading most of the comments above):

    Imagine a woman who has been verbally and physically abused by her boyfriend for years. Fifteen years, he’s been treating her like shit, and not a week goes by but she has to cover up her bruises with pancake makeup when she goes out; and of course routinely makes up excuses for her various signs of physical abuse on her face (or the cast on her arm last Christmas, was just from when she “missed a step going down to the basement” you see…).

    Now imagine that her friends and family long ago showed indications that they had woken up to her problem and plight, and they no longer believed her boyfriend was a good guy, and they have regularly implored her to seek help somehow (though she contiues to resist and cover up and make excuses for her abusive partner).

    Then, one day she rushes over to her friends and family gushing over with excitement and tells them that her boyfriend proposed to her! And that he’s a changed man! He told her so! He’s even promised to go to counseling! Isn’t that wonderful?

    And here’s the kicker: Imagine most of her friends and family actually buying this horse manure, and contragulating her (while the pipe-smoking Uncle Spencer stands by the fireplace with a thumbs up of “guarded optimism”).

    Disappointing. Dismaying. Disgusting.

  15. says

    “…Imagine most of her friends and family actually buying this horse manure, and contragulating her …”

    They should be “contragulating” her; but alas, they are congratulating her.

    (Dyslexia, I’ve read, is one of the first signs of that rare disorder of Losing Your Mind Because Even Your Fellow Anti-Islam Folks Are Oozing Marshmellowy Nougaty Softness From Their Open Minds.)

  16. says

    Nothing wrong with some schadenfreude for the fall of the vile Muslim Brotherhood, even hopes they may find themselves run out of Egypt like they were in the 1950s. That doesn’t mean it’s the Summer of Love. Egypt is what it always has been, adversarial Muslims, the persecution of Copts, the Protocols on prime time TV. Islam is always the same too, the Immovable Object, not changeable, not reformable. But one is entitled to enjoy any weakening of the Camp of Islam, even if we’ve contributed nothing to it being weakened. To weaken and divide and thereby contain the (permanent) menace of Islam is our only survivable policy.

    At the very least today is better than yesterday.

  17. says

    I’m getting very tired of the way LemonLime seems to think he is the only one who “gets it” on Islam.

  18. says

    Given that the West is not going to wake up anytime soon and fight Islamism like Nazism and given that Islam is not anywhere near reforming itself, we need to be thankful for and encouraging about small steps.

    Every small step forward out of the depths of darkness is a huge improvement over the recent otherwise headlong rush back to the 7th century.

    Tomorrow, we will wake up and try to solidify this small step while seeking to encourage the next small step either in the awakening of the West or in some small new positive change in Dar-al-Islam. Pretty soon within 500 years or so we may be close to a real solution…

  19. says

    Al jazeera might be pro Islamic TVchannel, but if the army and who ever comes after Morsi try to crush every opposing voice and spoken opinions of at less half the population of Egypt, .. then where is the change? … what is difference between the new government that is pro free speech and moderation then the one that just left ?

    We cannot call for democracy and then act like dictators by closing every place that oppose us and say they are haters .. can we ?

    Not that I like the fact that Aljazeera is Islamic and I which it closes, but the fact we want democracy we cant just close it, they have the right o speak through an out let … but if speaking in a TV station, turns to action and aggression then we have EVERY right to close it down.

    If we want our voices to be heard and call for freedom of speech, we have to let that rule include ALL people or risk of being branded hypocrites !

    We cant be calling for freedom of speech, ONLY when we are prevented from doing so … democracy and freedom of speech has to work for all whether it is, for US or against us …

  20. says

    George asked about whether any rapes have occurred.

    Debbie Schlussel reports:

    Egyptian media reported Sunday that a Dutch journalist was raped by several men in Cairo’s Tahrir Square a few days ago. Dina Zakaria, a journalist reporting for the “Egypt 25″ news channel affiliated with the January 25 revolution, shared the incident on her Facebook page Sunday:

    “A Dutch journalist in Tahrir was raped by men who dub themselves revolutionists. Her condition is severe and she is hospitalized.”

    Meanwhile, a state hospital issued a statement that the journalist was admitted after being raped by five men several days ago. She underwent surgery and has been released. It was also reported that Egypt’s Prosecutor General Talaat Abdallah ordered his staff to go to the hospital to hear the woman’s story and reveal the circumstances behind the violent attack. [bold emphasis added]

    http://www.debbieschlussel.com/63943/no-tears-for-raped-dutch-reporter-in-egypt-this-is-islam-this-is-islamic-democracy-liberation/#more-63943

  21. says

    ANYTHING is better than fanatic muslims in power, yeah, even military rule (which existed at least in part for decades anyway). Personally, I think the army is Egypt’s ONLY hope for the foreseeable future. Considering the situation in Egypt, the army was the only party in that country that could stop the Islamists and the country from going back to the stone age.

    For those who say that it’s a bad sign that only a year after a president was democratically elected, he’s toppled by the mob and army, that’s not true at all. First of all, there were doubts about his being elected over the secular candidate because the gap was very small and there were many instances of rigging and other irregularities. Second of all, he progressively became a dictator, he and his islamic mob created the most UNDEMOCRATIC constitution that disregarded more than half the population (the women, the minorities and anybody else who isn’t one of them).

    They all saw where it was going and THIS was the last possible moment for them to prevent it. They (meaning the more rational forces in Egypt and the army) saw what happens when radical Islam comes to power in Iran, in Turkey, in Gaza, Afghanistan in their own country. Once they get entrenched everywhere, it’s OVER!

    Personally, I think that if they don’t treat the Muslim Brothers and the Salafists the way the previous regimes did, and don’t crush them, there’s always a chance that they would try to take over again.

    Anyway, Egypt has enormous, almost insurmountable problems that will take DECADES to solve. I hope that the people who come to power tell them that.

  22. says

    Quote:

    Al jazeera might be pro Islamic TVchannel, but if the army and who ever comes after Morsi try to crush every opposing voice and spoken opinions of at less half the population of Egypt, .. then where is the change? … what is difference between the new government that is pro free speech and moderation then the one that just left ?

    We cannot call for democracy and then act like dictators by closing every place that oppose us and say they are haters .. can we ?

    Not that I like the fact that Aljazeera is Islamic and I which it closes, but the fact we want democracy we cant just close it, they have the right o speak through an out let … but if speaking in a TV station, turns to action and aggression then we have EVERY right to close it down.

    If we want our voices to be heard and call for freedom of speech, we have to let that rule include ALL people or risk of being branded hypocrites !

    We cant be calling for freedom of speech, ONLY when we are prevented from doing so … democracy and freedom of speech has to work for all whether it is, for US or against us …

    **************

    Are you American??? Because that sounds like the endless, delusional American ramblings about “democracy”, “freedom for all” and so on we’ve been hearing from American politicians, media and academics, for decades and reality be damned! The problem is that Americans (and Americans are by no means alone in that) are culturally and historically ignorant (or too PC or just too optimistic) and refuse to acknowledge that not all cultures are equal or legitimate. There’s also a refusal to understand that what works in one place can’t work in another. America has consistently made that mistake, never learning form past failures. This is exactly how all these Muslim freaks came to power during Bush and Obama’s regimes.

  23. says

    Notice that my comments to Philip have all refrained from insults, and that he lashes back with abusive language and insults — and notice that no one, except Champ, says anything to Philip. Where’s CGW and dda and Jan and others chiding Philip for going over the line and not being conducive to us all “getting along”?

    Crickets chirping, as usual. And when Rich has over the past month or two unleashed literally dozens of posts lashing at me with outrageous insults when I have either said nothing to him, or only in veiled subtle sarcasm took a jab at him — and that only after he had lashed out at me with outrageous insults. Crickets from the gallery.

    Back a year ago when Kinana was unleashing waves of obsessive posts against me, the same thing. You could hear a mousepad drop.

    So if my friend Champ ever wishes to give me advice, I’ll listen to her, since she’s shown support for me against outrageous commenters, I’ll listen to her. If the rest of you want to advise me, earn it.

  24. says

    I know I’ve said this many times, but we have the bloody Jihad to face.

    Dissension in the ranks, when it reaches the point of invective, *does not help*. And this is true no matter who may have started it.

    I respect everyone involved in this latest. I’m not “taking sides” because I don’t believe in this case that there are sides to be taken. Disagreements on most matters, as long as they are honest (as I believe they are here at Jihad Watch, in most cases) can be handled in a civil manner.

  25. says

    “It’s not incumbent upon me to “prove” anything to you. ”

    It is if you want to be persuasive to anyone who values reason.

  26. says

    hi Fiqh Al-Matter,

    may be you’re right but our concern should be limited to a govt., without jihadi elements/policies, for the sake of minority christians and Israel.

  27. says

    Salah wrote:

    Game over.
    The Muslim Brotherhood in Egypt, its birthplace, is DEAD. The Muslims Brotherhood worldwide will soon follow. The Obama administration will follow.
    This is a great day for all freedom lovers.
    ……………………………….

    Salah, I so hope that you are right in what this bodes. You did predict this move”kudos to you. Please know that I would *love* to be proven to have been overly pessimistic!

  28. says

    Gravenimage, I’ve been following this uprising for the last 3 months and I can tell you that this is NOT a military coup, it’s a POPULAR coup, the first popular coup in history.
    I repeat, the Muslim Brotherhood Mafia in Egypt is DEAD, forever dead. It will soon be followed by the fall of this organization WORLWIDE. And this will have an extremely negative effect on the Obama administration.
    God bless all freedom fighters.

  29. says

    What do you know, the general announcing Morsi’s ouster has one of those “callouses” on his forehead, a sure sign of where he hails from mentally.

  30. says

    Don’t worry, with the egyptian Muslim Brotherhood dead Syria wil be saved.
    Watch for the domino effect.

  31. says

    Who cares about “callouses”? He may worship a stone if he wants to, as long as he doesn’t impose his beliefs on others; and THIS will not happen again, at least not in the New Egypt.

  32. says

    “(whereas our optimism about any Muslims anywhere on the planet should be not only guarded but sentenced for life in solitary confinement without possibility for payrole)”

    I know it should be spelled “parole”; I don’t know what happened between my brain and that extension of my body known as a keyboard.

  33. says

    Actually, I thought, “payrole” was rather ingenious, Hesp…but what do I know?

    Not very fu*king much. I was sure the MB had the country by the juevos forever.

    And now? I don’t have a clue. I just know that the Rat-Eared-Bastard in Chief stuck his grubby hands into this mess early on and managed to fu*k up yet another of his “pet projects”.

  34. says

    What do you mean LL, pay and role are quite fitting. US payments play a most significant role. Last year when the tiny minority of hundreds of thousands selected our 911 anniversary to voice their islamic rage against our country who knows how much of our little billion dollar payola finaly convinced their master puppeteer to pull there strings a bit back.

  35. says

    Anything is better then Islamic brotherhood .!!

    The army just shut down Al Jazeera TV .. and that is not a good sign at all .. the army is acting as dictatorship already .

    But, this is an important step and there is nothing wrong to celebrate that .. no one is saying … ” peace is here and we all will be fine from now on ” .. far from it .

    Brotherhood is defeated in the biggest islamic arabic country and that is always good news .

  36. says

    George wrote:

    So, the Egyptians got their first democratically-elected president ousted…via military coup…triggered by street-mob. Is this how democracies do things? What about the next muslim in line? If he’s too “islamic,” or not “islamic” enough, just call out the mob and the generals move in, suspend the constitution and cart him off? No procedure for this; just riot, military, out he goes?
    …………………………………..

    Hi George,

    I share all of your concerns. However, it is well to remember that Egypt was *not* a Jeffersonian democracy before this military coup. If the *only* thing that marks a polity as a “democracy” is the vote, then this is just mob rule by the ballot box”i.e.,such a “democracy” can vote in Shari’ah, or slavery, or any horror.

    A true democracy has safeguards for minority groups and for the individual”this is true in the West.

    More:

    And by the way, how many of these “freedom fighters” have renounced islam?
    …………………………………..

    Very few. As I noted, some protesters have been demonstrating against Shari’ah, but some actually regard Morsi himself as “insufficiently Islamic”.

    And, as Slavonian notes, above, the general himself has a big ol’ “Zebiba””so I don’t imagine we should expect any sort of substantive rejection of Islam from any of the major players here.

  37. says

    Philip,

    That Obama made things worse doesn’t mean that millions of Muslims in a country that has been overwhelmingly Islamic continuously for 1,400 years can reform overnight.

    I mean, I realize there is a lot of mushy softness and asymptotic flabbiness among the motley crew here at JW, but they still manage to surprise me sometimes. What are they doing, taking a brief break from excoriating Islam and Muslims 24/7, eight days a week, 365 days a year so they can suddenly reverse everything they’ve been tap-tap-tapping out on their keyboards about how bad Islam and Muslims are, to express this flabbergastingly ridiculous optimism about mass Muslim reform in a thoroughly evil and fanatical Islamic country?

    What this indicates to me is that lurking in the hearts and minds of many (perhaps most) JW commenters is a desperate need to believe that Muslims are not, in fact, as they seem to be — incorrigibly and irremediably fanatical where the fanaticism inculcates evil and deadly words & deeds (with exceptions not sufficient in number or trustworthiness to save the general problem). And the instant that they see an apparent sign of hope, the leap on it with embarrassing alacrity which indicates a discomfitting tendency (and, as I said, a positive need) to believe Malarkey about Mohammedans. About what else would they also be so flabbergastingly gullible? And would or could that have an unfortunate effect on our ability to protect our societies?

    Have they learned absolutely nothing from this mountain higher than Mt. Everest of data about the evil deadly supremacism and fanaticism of Muslims? This mountain, Mt. Jihad Watch, a veritable and active volcano daily spewing out rivers of the evil lava of data about Muslims, and standing in a vast ocean of dots screaming to be connected — not to be connected in optimism about the reformation of millions of Muslims, here, there or anywhere; but to be connected in a grimly implacable pessimism about any and all Muslims, forever and ever.

  38. says

    “this is what we were hoping for for a long time here on JW.”

    Ah, very revealing. I too have been hoping here at JW — but not for Muslims, for Crissakes. What a preposterous notion!

    My hope has always, and only, been that my West wakes up to the unchangeable evil and danger of Muslims, so that we can begin to put policies into place that will better protect our societies from them.

  39. says

    Sorry, Salah; I hear that you’re convinced and excited. But I’m not buying-in. Not buying-in to those “moderate muslims,” or the fact that this was, finally, anything other than more rule by muslim mob. None of the questions asked in my third paragraph above–those little details like anti-semitism, rape, etc, has been answered. I see no reason to accept that these “freedom fighters” are any less islamic–with all that implies–than they were last month or last year. Which leaves me little to expect from whomever emerges from this–military or otherwise–to what passes in Egypt as “leadership”…

  40. says

    Gravenimage, I’ve been following this uprising for the last 3 months and I can tell you that this is NOT a military coup, it’s a POPULAR coup, the first popular coup in history.
    ………………………………..

    Um…the first in *history*?

    More:

    I repeat, the Muslim Brotherhood Mafia in Egypt is DEAD, forever dead. It will soon be followed by the fall of this organization WORLWIDE. And this will have an extremely negative effect on the Obama administration.
    God bless all freedom fighters.
    ………………………………..

    You believe this is the end of the Muslim Brotherhood? Keep in mind, Salah, that the Muslim Brotherhood is nothing but Islam. Its goals are the imposition of Shari’ah and the founding of what would eventually be a global Caliphate. This is *not* peculiar to the MB”this is mainstream Islam.

    More, in reply to Slavonian:

    Who cares about “callouses”? He may worship a stone if he wants to, as long as he doesn’t impose his beliefs on others; and THIS will not happen again, at least not in the New Egypt.
    ………………………………..

    Salah, this “callous” is not an arbitrary thing. Any Muslim with a Zebiba”basically, someone who has prayed so fervently that they have *a visible scar on their head* from banging their forehead on the floor repeatedly over a long period of time”is someone who takes their Islam damed seriously. And while there are a handful of Muslims for whom this just means prayer and fasting, for any orthodox Muslim this means the imposition of Islamic law”exactly the same goal as the MB.

    More, in reply to Fineliving:

    Don’t worry, with the egyptian Muslim Brotherhood dead Syria wil be saved.
    Watch for the domino effect.

    More, in reply to Slavonian:

    [S] “Islam teaches Muslims to impose their beliefs on others.”

    YES. And that’s exactly why the vast majority of Muslims (moderate/nominal Muslims) are too decent to imitate their filthy prophet and follow his evil teachings.
    Once they are liberated from FEAR they’ll start leaving this cult by the millions.
    ……………………………….

    You really believe that the threat of JIhad and Shari’ah are well and truly over *for good*, in Egypt and the entire region? What about all those pious “Islamists” who have been calling for Islamic law? This is no “tiny minority of extremists”? On what basis can you claim that Muslims are going to be abandoning Islam “in the millions”?

    Salah”buddy”I’m not trying to rain on your parade. But with these last two posts I’m afraid you are well and truly into irrational exuberance.

  41. says

    Sorry fineliving, this has nothing to do with dictatorship, it’s a security matter, at least for this volatile situation.
    Shutting down al Jazera is NOT against free speech, it’s against HATE speach.

  42. says

    “The army just shut down Al Jazeera TV .. and that is not a good sign at all ”
    Not a good sign? Al Jazeera is an Islamic mouthpiece. I won’t be lamenting its silence.

  43. says

    “..so that we can begin to put policies into place that will better protect our societies from them.”

    You’re right, but you can’t do it unless you get rid of this, and any PC administration.
    Meanwhile, moderate muslims are our best allies if they stand up and condemn terrorism and violence.
    Now they did just that, and that’s a big win.

  44. says

    “That Obama made things worse doesn’t mean that millions of Muslims in a country that has been overwhelmingly Islamic continuously for 1,400 years can reform overnight.”

    Never said it/they could, or would, or even suggested that that may be the case.

    What I was going on about was that Obama is largely responsible for the mess that the country is in – and I think I was pretty careful not to suggest anything other than that I was temporarily pleased that, at least, the MB was relieved of the reins of authority.

    At no point did I suggest that the events may/may not lead to reform, or whether or not I believed that that reform was possible.

    And, more to your point – I never, actually, said that Obama made things “worse”. I merely expressed my disgust at the fact that his interference early on enabled the chaos we see today.

  45. says

    George, muslims have been brainwashed with this anti-semitism sentiment for decades, if not for centuries. It will take a long time to change that. Now that the moderates have won, things will start changing, we have to be patient.
    As for this rape thing, I can assure you that in every anti-Muslim Brotherhood demonstration, MB members know how to sneak in between the crowds, do the rape thing and make it look as if it was done by the peaceful moderates. It happened in almost every anti-Mursi demonstration.

  46. says

    Meanwhile, moderate muslims are our best allies if they stand up and condemn terrorism and violence.

    What’s a “moderate Muslim”? I’ve heard about that, from fairy tales, but I’m not sure scientists have ever determined the existence of one.

    Now they did just that, and that’s a big win.

    And I have some premo swampland on the riverbanks of De Nile to sell you — at a 50% discount!

  47. says

    Moderate Muslims are the ones Robert has been talking about for years now. They are the ones who practise the peaceful “Mecca verses” of islam, rejecting the “Medina verses”, terrorism and violence. And believe me, most of them are moderates.
    They were living in fear, now they don’t have to keep a low profile. Now they stood up, at least in the case of the Egyptian uprising, against the most influential terrorist organization in the world.
    They brought the MB to its knees. It will never recover from this humiliation. Watch for the domino effect.
    This is a very good start. We shouldn’t expect miracles, the war is far from over.

  48. says

    “Obama should be well humiliated by this, he wanted Egypt to be an Islamic state like the others he helped to create.”

    Egypt already was an islamic state — it just had a shave and a haircut, which should fool no one (except JW Softies, that is).

  49. says

    Hi Salah and graven.
    Is there not something in the Egyptian constitution that allows for the military to step in when there is no effective government? In that case Salah is correct in saying this isn’t a military coup.
    (The cynic in me says: “The witch is dead. Long live the witch”. I hope I’m wrong. Nonie Darwish says the Muslim Mideast countries go through a cycle of tyranny-coup-tyranny-coup-tyranny…)

  50. says

    “1) We need a leader who is willing to say, without apology, that ISLAM is the problem.

    2) We need a leader who is willing to DO something about it.

    3) All policies need to be based on this”

    1) Egypt needs a leader who is willing to say, without apology, that ISLAM is the problem.

    2) Egypt needs a leader who is willing to DO something about it.

    3) All policies need to be based on this

  51. says

    “…gushing over in enthusiasm over the propsect (sic) of millions of Muslims reforming overnight (as can be seen, copiously and painfully, on reading most of the comments above)”

    Nobody used the word “overnight”, LL.

    Don’t put words in peoples’ mouths, in order to make your point (which, by the way, has been made quite clearly, and quite enough) re: “softies”.

    It’s intellectually dishonest.

  52. says

    “overnight” doesn’t necessarily mean literally in one night. It just means quickly. Or do the enthusiasts above think the Egyptian People (i.e., millions of Muslims who happen to live in Egypt) have been evolving for decades without giving any sign of it until now?

    Either way, there’s nothing respectable about the ejaculations above.

  53. says

    “Who cares about “callouses”? He may worship a stone if he wants to, as long as he doesn’t impose his beliefs on others;”
    Islam teaches Muslims to impose their beliefs on others. That’s the problem. Yes/no?

  54. says

    Hi Fiqh
    As I think we all know, the West’s governments are aiding rather than resisting Islam. That’s the real problem. A West united against Islam would bring down Islam, if I may say so, “overnight”.

  55. says

    Hi Graven,

    I think you pretty much reinforced all my points there, with the addition of General Zebibahead, whom I’d neglected to mention.

    I’m not saying that I’m not happy to see Morsi go. And it’s a nice kick in the shins to the Brotherhood. As an added bonus it makes Obama look like an idiot–which it should–because he is. I’m sure the military will restore order–at least in the short term. The power was theirs all along, anyway.

    All that said…my doubts and concerns remain. The Egyptians HAD their democracy. They voted this guy in. And, they rioted–mobbed–him out. These are the same Egyptians–these “moderate” muslims–who persecute Coptic Christians, commit rape in the streets and profess their genocidal desire to destroy Israel. Hasn’t all that been painfully documented here?

    We’ll see how it plays out. Meanwhile, I’ll remain here in the “no gushing” zone.

    Happy 4th of July to you, Graven!

  56. says

    (Apologies to all for my numerous posts today. I think I’m like the buses: You wait for ages for a bus and then a dozen come along. Anyway most of my posts are quite brief (?))

    “There is only a military dictatorship or sharia.”
    That’s exactly what Nonie Darwish, (Egyptian), says!
    You can at least have some dealings with a dictator. But with shariah? Little to none.
    The pattern repeats. Khomenei was worse than the Shah. Lybia is worse now after Gaddafi was ousted. Mubarak was overthrown and now what? Nonie Darwish says, rather sadly and reluctantly, Muslim states need a dictator

  57. says

    “Islam teaches Muslims to impose their beliefs on others.”

    YES. And that’s exactly why the vast majority of Muslims (moderate/nominal Muslims) are too decent to imitate their filthy prophet and follow his evil teachings.
    Once they are liberated from FEAR they’ll start leaving this cult by the millions.

  58. says

    I’m not the only one. There are a few others here (Jan, CGW, Infidel Pride, Champ, and perhaps a few others). What bothers me is that in an Anti-Islam movement, their number is so few.

  59. says

    I think many of us are getting tired of the pompous pontification of the ever-negative LL. Posters here, even if they may disagree at times, have historically respected each other’s opinions. Lately, not so much.

  60. says

    Mosque attendance in Iran is only some 3%. In Egypt 61%. Indonesia 72%. The stats vary considerably. Islam could indeed fall in Iran as communism did ie because people don’t want it anymore.

  61. says

    So many people applauding Obama in the NY Times comments. How the hell do you look at these events and say “Obama looks smarter and smarter every day for staying out of it” He’s still meddling in it for the MB threatening the funds he sends to Egypt… People give me a migraine.

  62. says

    “but if speaking in a TV station, turns to action and aggression then we have EVERY right to close it down.”
    But that’s precisely what’s going on is it not? Imams preach Jihad and muslims/Jihadists carry it out.

  63. says

    “We cannot call for democracy and then act like dictators by closing every place that oppose us and say they are haters .. can we ? ”

    Well, we can’t; but we’re not talking about a people we can include among us. Muslims might as well be from Mars. They don’t do democracy.

    Haven’t you JW readers learned anything from this veritable mountain range of information about Mohammedan pathology which Spencer has been amassing for years here…!?

  64. says

  65. says

    Jack Diamond wrote:

    91 sexual assaults in 4 days in Tahrir Square
    ……………………………..

    Thanks, Jack. I’m afraid this has to be the work of more than just a few Muslim Brotherhood plants hoping to make protesters “look bad”. For one thing, were this true, the attackers would not get far before the freedom fighters in the crowd would knock heads and tie up the world-be rapists and hand them over to the police.

    I do believe there are some Egyptians out in the streets genuinely protesting for greater freedom”but at this rate, it seems they may well be outnumbered by pious rapists.

  66. says

    You know I love ya, buddy, and I have tremendous respect for your intellect, but sometimes you’re *clueless* with regard to basic human psychology.

    We’re talking troop morale here. However unrealistic considering the ultimate goals, people *need* to seize upon small, relative “victories” (even if you consider them to be otherwise)and celebrate, rejoicing over them. It’s what helps to keep them going for the long haul.

    We are on one extreme end of the anti-islam spectrum. Berating others for not joining us on our end is not a constructive solution to the problem. I’m really hoping to see you back off from such strong and constant criticism of your comrades-in-arms and try to motivate people in a more positive manner. You don’t need to change a single iota of your stance against islam but I do recommend encouraging people, persuading them to your viewpoint with logical argumentation (at which you excel) as opposed to personal attacks which alienate people before they even arrive at the point of considering the validity of your viewpoint.

    You’re not going to recruit others to our Cause by your tactics, nor indeed “harden” the attitudes of those nearer to us than the middle of the spectrum, much less those nearer the other end. I know that others have tried to persuade you of this before, but I thought it wouldn’t hurt to give it one more shot.

  67. says

    Umm,, just to clarify, Lemon; I didn’t ask IF rapes had occurred. The words “Tahrir” and “rape” are practically synonymous. I asked HOW MANY rapes had occurred. Jackdiamond reports 91 as of his post above (Thanks, jack).
    Ahh, boys will be boys, eh? Or is it that muslims will be muslims–even if it pleases us to hail them as “moderates” and “freedom fighters?”

  68. says

    And, Georgio – just to toss a couple of statistical “cents” in…

    91 rapes in a crowd of 10,000,000 is almost an aberration. And I don’t mean to suggest that ANY are acceptable, but 91 in 10,000,000 is worse odds than winning the Lottery – and, I would add – a much smaller number (by leaps and bounds) than the number of sexual assaults in America with the same numbers of people involved.

    Isn’t that called an aggregate, Georgio? I don’t know, because I’m too doopid, and you’re much more eruditer than I…

    Cheers! Happy 4th, friend!

    Philip Von Morsi de la Virgin de Guadalupe bin Jihadski

  69. says

    I agree with you, CGW.

    I actually agree with what LL is saying about the ousting of morsi, but nevertheless, I endorse all you say about LL’s positives, but alas, also the negatives.

    Are you listening, LemonLime ?

  70. says

    I agree with you

    We are all after the same thing .. destroy Islam by exposing islam in the eyes of the clueless, Muslims and non Muslims alike ..

    disagreeing on minor things should not dislodge our cause .

  71. says

    “Since November 2011, police have stayed away from Tahrir Square during bigger protests, to avoid clashes with protesters. This has left women protesters unprotected”

    This is the first reason, they’ve thrown these women to the wolves.

    “Five volunteers with the Egyptian group who spoke with Human Rights Watch described in detail 10 of the 23 cases of sexual assault in which they intervened, from around 7 p.m. to 2:10 a.m. on the night of June 30, mostly on the eastern side of Tahrir Square and in nearby streets. Many of the women were badly beaten in addition to being sexually abused, and crowds repeatedly attacked the volunteers while they attempted to escort the women to safety.”

    This is not just the Muslim Brotherhood. This is endemic.

    “In February 2012, members of the Shura Council, Egypt’s legislative body, blamed women for the mob assaults in Tahrir, with one member, General Adel Afifi, saying that, “Women contribute 100 percent in their rape because they put themselves in such circumstances.”

    This is not just a Muslim Brotherhood attitude
    either.

    Freedom (including freedom from harm) for Egyptian women could only come from it being imposed on that rotten society by an army and police willing to impose it (not ignore it or even take part it in). That includes Coptic girls and women and what they have been suffering from an open season of kidnapping, rape, forced marriages and forced conversions, with no consequences for the culprits. It’s not going to come from democracy. It’s not going to come from the well-intentioned but powerless secularists who cannot even save girls from a mob.

  72. says

    gravenimage–

    “For one thing, were this true, the attackers would not get far before the freedom fighters in the crowd would knock heads and tie up the world-be rapists and hand them over to the police.”

    1) The notion that all rapes are plants is just a hypothesis put forth by Salah, ever anxious to save millions of Muslims from condemnation, without a shred of proof.

    2) If you read jack’s link, you will see the Human Rights Watch report describes these 91 sexual assaults/rapes as occurring “amid a climate of impunity“.

  73. says

    “Are you listening, LemonLime ? ”

    Only to people who step in once in a while to defend me from commenters (like Rich) who over two dozen times in several different threads over several weeks time hurl outrageous insults at me which I don’t indulge in (e.g., that I’m a “monkey” who is “throwing feces around”, etc.).

    If you want something, you gotta give me something.

  74. says

    “disagreeing on minor things should not dislodge our cause .”

    I agree. That’s why I only disagree about major things.

  75. says

    Philip,

    Rapes that occur in the USA, a sprawling nation of incredible diversity and high population, with only negligible exceptions that don’t count for my point, do not occur during 1) protests, 2) political rallies, 3) music festivals, 4) 4th of July celebrations, 5) sports events, 6) etc.

  76. says

    Herr Jihadski,

    Just got home from golf and seeing all this. Was it ever HOT out there! I was, too; shot my best round of the year.

    Are you saying that the number of sexual assaults would be about the same in the West for a comparable crowd at a comparable venue over a comparable period of time? Do we even have anything to compare it to? Or, are you just saying it’s a just plain small number?

    I suppose I could play a numbers-game here, too. These are reported as “gang-rapes.” If we define a “gang” as 3 or more–and keep to the minimum number of 3…then that starts sounding like 270+ violations.

    I must be really naieve–but I think nearly 100 cases of rape (multiple or no) in a 4-day period is a shocking figure. And, I would refer you to the 2:31 post above from jackdiamond. And, we prosecute rapists here–do they do that in Egypt?

    BTW, I’m saddened to see that some of my friends are fighting here. I hope you guys can get past it..

    Happy 4th, Prince Phillippe!

    Georg von Schwer und Fahrfichnughen

  77. says

    From the AG’s report from 2005:

    According to United States Department of Justice document Criminal Victimization in the United States, there were overall 191,670 victims of rape or sexual assault reported in 2005.[63] Only 16% of rapes and sexual assaults are reported to the police (Rape in America: A Report to the Nation. 1992 and United Nations Populations Fund, 2000a).[64][65] Factoring in unreported rapes, about 5% of rapists will ever spend a day in jail.[66]One of six U.S. women has experienced an attempted or completed rape.[67] More than a quarter of college age women report having experienced a rape or rape attempt since age 14.[68]
    _______

    let’s round those numbers off to 200,000. In a country of 300,000,000, those numbers are astronomically higher than 100 in 10,000,000.

    Wrong again, LL. And you think rapes don’t occur at Music Festivals? Wrong again, and this time, you do the leg work, and look up the incidence of rapes at, for instance, Woodstock.
    _________

    So in the end, you were: wrong, wrong, wrong and wrong. And yet, you just won’t admit it!

    Come down off your phony throne, buddy, and show a little humility.

  78. says

    Dear Philip, I have the greatest respect for you. I have to ask, though”do you really believe that gang rape is more common in the United States than it is in Cairo, a place where violent public sexual harassment was completely rife even during Mubarak’s day?

    Harassment and assault of unveiled women is perfectly Halal under Islam. Moreover, Jihadists have specifically cited gang rape as a tactic used against women who dare to appear in the public square.

    There is *nothing* like that here in the West.

  79. says

    Thanks ImNo
    I think I’ll give myself a holiday from said poster. You don’t have to read every comment after all.

  80. says

    “I doubt it would be worth my time trying to explain it to you.”

    You’re fu*king hopeless, dude, and like gerard and ImNoDhimmi, I’ll take my vacation from you, as well.

    Go argue with yourself.

    I’m done, except to say that I think that you have some serious mental issues. Go see a shrink.

    And take me off the list, again. I’m done with you.

  81. says

    LemonLime wrote:

    If you read jack’s link, you will see the Human Rights Watch report describes these 91 sexual assaults/rapes as occurring “amid a climate of impunity”.
    ……………………………

    I think this is very true. Also, recall that Egypt is a place where very few rape victims go to the hospital, and even fewer report it to the police, where they are apt to be accused of “prostitution”.

    I imagine the number of these sexual assaults is likely much higher than ninety-one. These are likely the gang rapes that either resulted in serious injury or were reported by Western media”or both, in the case of the young Dutch reporter who had to have emergency surgery following her brutal gang rape.

  82. says

    I’m done, except to say that I think that you have some serious mental issues. Go see a shrink.

    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

    I must admit that when someone wrote something similar to ‘Americana’ I agreed with them because that perp had it coming. But in this instance I must disagree with you, since that remark is uncalled for towards LemonLime.

  83. says

    “Dear Philip, I have the greatest respect for you. I have to ask, though”do you really believe that gang rape is more common in the United States than it is in Cairo…”

    No, and that’s not what I was arguing – just that 100 in 10,000,000 over 3 days is nothing compared to 200,000 for 300,000,000 in 365.

  84. says

    “But in this instance I must disagree with you, since that remark is uncalled for towards LemonLime.”

    Well, go ahead. Disagree all you like. I’m not here to convince you or anyone else.

    But before you disagree too heavily, I’d like to see your credentials in the mental health arena.

    I’ve got several, and I stand by my words. I think the dude has serious issues and should see a shrink.

    There’s nothing insulting, degrading and/or abusive in that. In fact, it’s a gift. He should take my advice.

  85. says

    I don’t need credentials to know that what you did was an attack on his character. Besides, what kind of a doctor attacks people by telling them to go see a shrink and on a public forum? And how is publicly humiliating someone a “gift”? You have his email, why not advise him privately if you’re so concerned about his well being?

  86. says

    Hi LemonLime …

    Well, my advice to you is not to let his mean and angry words get to you! Jeez what kind of a doctor does that? Not a very good one, that’s for sure! My gosh and on the 4th no less!

    And my other advice is for you to have a happy 4th!!! Hubby and I are leaving soon and going to our son’s for a bbq …so I wanted to wish you a special 4th of July before I go!

    Take care, my dear friend! …many hugs to you, as well :)

  87. says

    Hey, I just got here. I’ve been away from the computer all day – c’mon, it’s the FOURTH OF JULY, people!

    I do agree with you, LL, that PJ’s comments were over the line. He tends to get a bit impatient and hot-tempered when he’s frustrated.

    But you’re wrong to complain about fellow JWers not “coming to your defense”. Are you kidding me? What is this, grade school? If two of you decide to start attacking each other, the LAST thing *I* am going to do is get involved in your petty personal squabbles. If you can’t discuss substantive issues civilly, that’s on you [both]. That’s not what I’m here for and frankly, when that starts up I’ve learned to just scroll on by. It’s boring.

    Count me in to support you in the counter-jihad and the fight against islam in general. But even though I may take sides intelectually and emotionally, I will do so *silently*. It’s for you to battle it out. I actually get offended when people descend into such behavior; it’s undignified and childish, not to mention just plain counter-productive. I feel as though I am too often counseling people here to “just get along” for the Cause’s sake – I’m tired of it. If we can’t “hang together”, you know what fate will befall us separately. . .

  88. says

    “the LAST thing *I* am going to do is get involved in your petty personal squabbles. ”

    You contradict yourself, when you selectively chide me for squabbles, but don’t chide Kinana/Rich/Philip/whatmecare (just four names that come to mind, out of probably more).

  89. says

    P.S.: And it’s even worse than that, since they have been far more egregious insulters and sowers of discord than I have been. It’s perverse how you and gravenimage ignore that.

  90. says

    Don’t think for an instant that it’s easy for me to tell you all this. I do so understanding that I run the real risk of alienating someone whose friendship and comradeship I value enormously, and for whom I have tremendous respect and admiration both as an intellectual and as a committed counter-jihadist.

  91. says

    I have only done so when I feel that it has gone beyond the bounds of reasonable discourse, to the point where you exhibit your particular dog-with-a-bone syndrome.

    You wrote:
    “P.S.: And it’s even worse than that, since they have been far more egregious insulters and sowers of discord than I have been. It’s perverse how you and gravenimage ignore that.”

    I don’t agree at all. From my vantage point (others may view it differently), although you certainly use fewer epithets and hurl less vehemnt abuse in terms of actual words, your insults pop up persistently in threads where posters with whom you are aggrieved show up and post on-topic, without first provoking you personally. Once you have an individual on your radar, whenever they appear in your sights to post ON-TOPIC, the snidely insulting remarks from you are sure to follow. Only after repeated protests and challenges from the targeted commenter do you then grudgingly, reluctantly and gradually settle into a long-term detente. Your tenacity in this regard is astounding.

    One may argue that others are more “egregious insulters”, but no one can best you as a “sower of discord”. I am far from the first to point out your aggravating tendency to berate and criticize those with whom you should most savor and cherish the bonds of fellowship through respectful and appreciative commentary.

    You are also thin-skinned, defensive, and have a bit of a persecution complex.

    Other than all the above, you’re perfect! : – D

  92. says

    “From my vantage point (others may view it differently), although you certainly use fewer epithets and hurl less vehemnt abuse in terms of actual words, your insults pop up persistently in threads where posters with whom you are aggrieved show up and post on-topic, without first provoking you personally. Once you have an individual on your radar, whenever they appear in your sights to post ON-TOPIC, the snidely insulting remarks from you are sure to follow. Only after repeated protests and challenges from the targeted commenter do you then grudgingly, reluctantly and gradually settle into a long-term detente. Your tenacity in this regard is astounding.”

    This kind of an accusation demands specific evidence — you’d have to come up with at least 3 different people I’ve done what you describe to, and provide quotes and/or links, if you want to be heeded. Just throwing such a detailed accusation out there in such generalizing terms without any proof is shabby and induces no respect.

  93. says

    The “bloody jihad”?

    Is that your English heritage showing or were you being literal? : – )

  94. says

    Again, are you kidding me? YOU are the one bemoaning my failure to “come to [your] defense”. I merely explained why I don’t get involved in interpersonal disputes, except when I feel something has gone too far and is reaching the point of damaging the integrity of both the site and the Movement, and the morale of JWers and other counter-jihadists. (Even then my approach is more of the “hey guys, let’s all just get along” variety, as opposed to singling anyone out for criticism.)It’s not incumbent upon me to “prove” anything to you. I’ve stated my opinion based on what I’ve observed (and decried mostly silently) over time. If you remain unconvinced because of your stubborn refusal to see that you’ve done anything wrong and your insistence on seeing yourself as the aggrieved party, whose comrades have abandoned him to endure the verbal abuse of others without provocation (boo-hoo), I’m not going to write a term paper here with references and citations to prove it to you.

    Just ask yourself this: why is it that you are on bad terms with so many at JW, especially all the newbies, and that you hold that position almost exclusively? Does everyone just go out of their way to pick on LemonLime? Why don’t they attack anyone else personally? Why is the majority of the antagonism and acrimony here between YOU and someone else? Can you name anyone else who is at odds so constatntly with so many others?

  95. says

    “(Even then my approach is more of the “hey guys, let’s all just get along” variety, as opposed to singling anyone out for criticism.)”

    Except when you single me out.