“More than 140 million girls over the next decade will be married before they turn 18″

childmarriageprotesters.jpg

And what is to stop this from happening? It has broad sanction in Islam, as few things are more abundantly attested in Islamic law than the permissibility of child marriage. Islamic tradition records that Muhammad’s favorite wife, Aisha, was six when Muhammad wedded her and nine when he consummated the marriage:

“The Prophet wrote the (marriage contract) with Aisha while she was six years old and consummated his marriage with her while she was nine years old and she remained with him for nine years (i.e. till his death)” (Bukhari 7.62.88).

Another tradition has Aisha herself recount the scene:

The Prophet engaged me when I was a girl of six (years). We went to Medina and stayed at the home of Bani-al-Harith bin Khazraj. Then I got ill and my hair fell down. Later on my hair grew (again) and my mother, Um Ruman, came to me while I was playing in a swing with some of my girl friends. She called me, and I went to her, not knowing what she wanted to do to me. She caught me by the hand and made me stand at the door of the house. I was breathless then, and when my breathing became Allright, she took some water and rubbed my face and head with it. Then she took me into the house. There in the house I saw some Ansari women who said, “Best wishes and Allah’s Blessing and a good luck.” Then she entrusted me to them and they prepared me (for the marriage). Unexpectedly Allah’s Apostle came to me in the forenoon and my mother handed me over to him, and at that time I was a girl of nine years of age. (Bukhari 5.58.234).

Muhammad was at this time fifty-four years old.

Marrying young girls was not all that unusual for its time, but because in Islam Muhammad is the supreme example of conduct (cf. Qur’an 33:21), he is considered exemplary in this unto today. And so in April 2011, the Bangladesh Mufti Fazlul Haque Amini declared that those trying to pass a law banning child marriage in that country were putting Muhammad in a bad light: “Banning child marriage will cause challenging the marriage of the holy prophet of Islam”¦ [putting] the moral character of the prophet into controversy and challenge.” He added a threat: “Islam permits child marriage and it will not be tolerated if any ruler will ever try to touch this issue in the name of giving more rights to women.” The Mufti said that 200,000 jihadists were ready to sacrifice their lives for any law restricting child marriage.

Likewise the influential website Islamonline.com in December 2010 justified child marriage by invoking not only Muhammad’s example, but the Qur’an as well:

The Noble Qur’an has also mentioned the waiting period [i.e. for a divorced wife to remarry] for the wife who has not yet menstruated, saying: “And those who no longer expect menstruation among your women””if you doubt, then their period is three months, and [also for] those who have not menstruated” [Qur’an 65:4]. Since this is not negated later, we can take from this verse that it is permissible to have sexual intercourse with a prepubescent girl. The Qur’an is not like the books of jurisprudence which mention what the implications of things are, even if they are prohibited. It is true that the prophet entered into a marriage contract with A”isha when she was six years old, however he did not have sex with her until she was nine years old, according to al-Bukhari.

Other countries make Muhammad’s example the basis of their laws regarding the legal marriageable age for girls. Article 1041 of the Civil Code of the Islamic Republic of Iran states that girls can be engaged before the age of nine, and married at nine: “Marriage before puberty (nine full lunar years for girls) is prohibited. Marriage contracted before reaching puberty with the permission of the guardian is valid provided that the interests of the ward are duly observed.”

Iran’s Ayatollah Khomeini himself married a ten-year-old girl when he was twenty-eight. Khomeini called marriage to a prepubescent girl “a divine blessing,” and advised the faithful to give their own daughters away accordingly: “Do your best to ensure that your daughters do not see their first blood in your house.” When he took power in Iran, he lowered the legal marriageable age of girls to nine, in accord with Muhammad’s example.

“Rights group: Law failing to protect child brides,” by Aya Batrawy for the Associated Press, January 19 (thanks to Kenneth):

DUBAI, United Arab Emirates “” Cultural traditions and a lack of legal protections are driving tens of millions of girls around the world into early marriage, subjecting them to violence, poverty and mistreatment, an international human rights group says.

Equality Now, citing the United Nations Population Fund, said in a report issued over the weekend that more than 140 million girls over the next decade will be married before they turn 18.

“When a young girl is married and gives birth, the vicious cycle of poverty, poor health, curtailed education, violence, instability, disregard for rule of law … continues into the next generation, especially for any daughters she may have,” the report said.

The 32-page report found that despite laws that set a minimum age for marriage in many countries, social norms continue to provide a veneer of legitimacy to child marriage in remote villages and even in developed countries. Child marriage is defined as a marriage before age 18.

“Child marriage legitimizes human rights violations and abuses of girls under the guise of culture, honor, tradition and religion,” the report said.

The report gave examples of cases in countries such as Afghanistan, Cameroon, Guatemala, India, Jordan, Kenya, Malawi and Mali.

Often when child brides are married off to older men, it is to restore or maintain family honor, or to settle a father’s debts or obtain some other financial gain. A girl married off is seen as one less mouth to feed, and the wedding dowry is spent by her family to support itself.

Yemeni school students hold up posters denouncing child marriage, as they take part in a protest outside the parliament in Sanaa, Yemen, March 2010.

In some countries, families encourage early marriage to protect young girls from premarital sex and to uphold a family’s honor, according to the report.

In one case, a young girl named Mariam was born in France to parents from Mali. She had never been to Mali until her father sent her at age 14 and her sister at 16 to a village while they were on vacation from school.

When they arrived, their father took their passports, and Mariam was told to marry her father’s cousin. Her sister was to marry the local imam, or preacher. Mariam eventually escaped with the help of a policeman she met during a visit to the village market, but her sister remains in Mali, the report said.

Equality Now said it uses pseudonyms for girls for their safety.

In another case in Afghanistan, a 3-year-old girl’s father killed a man. To avoid prison, he handed his daughter over to the victim’s family, which regularly beat her and forced her to do household chores. At 10 she was raped by an older man in the family, and that same year she was married to a teenager from the family.

Her husband divorced her when she was 12, and she was forced to marry the uncle who had raped her. It was not until she managed to run away that police helped her find shelter with a women’s organization. The uncle was arrested and is serving a 13-year sentence for rape, Equality Now said.

Equality Now said child marriages often lead to young brides who are isolated and, because of their marital status, have little access to education and other services generally provided to children. In cases where a girl has the legal right to void her marriage, it is difficult to do so without knowledge of the law, education and financial support.

The U.N. population fund says rates of child marriage are highest in the West African nation of Niger, where 75 percent of girls are married before they turn 18, and a third are wed before age 15. Under Niger’s law, the minimum age for marriage is 15, but traditional customs often prevail in villages.

In Bangladesh, the rate of child marriage is 66 percent, and in Central African Republic and Chad it is 68 percent. In India, 47 percent of girls are married before they turn 18.

In the Middle East, Saudi Arabia and Yemen are the only Arab countries that do not have laws that set a minimum age for marriage. According to a December 2011 Human Rights Watch report, approximately 14 percent of girls in Yemen, the Arab world’s poorest nation, were married before age 15, and 52 percent were wed before they turned 18.

 

65% of females in Yemen marry underage
Yemen: Muslim father burns his 15-year-old daughter to death for "communicating with her fiance"
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Comments

  1. Champ says

    “The Prophet engaged me when I was a girl of six (years). We went to Medina and stayed at the home of Bani-al-Harith bin Khazraj.”

    Having sex with a child–a baby, really–should enrage anyone with even a hint of a conscience! It’s evil that mohammedans have given this evildoer, muhammad, a pass, and claim that such behavior makes him the Perfect Man; and that mohammedans practice such perversion themselves.

  2. Bettina says

    I’ve lost 2 of my replies because I tried posting without filling up the identifying fields! What’s with that, Robert and Staff?
    Why are you burdening us with this crazy process prior to posting? This is a supreme intrusion, one I’m asking you to remove. Thank you.

  3. Bettina says

    Semeru, stop acting so negative. Mr Spencer doesn’t make “claims” but statements, instead. And your use of “once again” is demeaning. If you ask nicely, maybe his staff will help you.

  4. Blangwort says

    Wikipedia, if it is to be believed as a source, says she was 16 when she was married. That’s a big difference from 10. Also note that in the early 1920’s, many girls were getting married at that age, even in Western societies.

  5. Bettina says

    Thank you, Dumbles! I was too shocked by Kepha’s remarks to put my thoughts into words. I’m very happy that you overcame your outrage long enough to respond in your usual cogent, lucid manner. As for me, I’m still shocked at his off-the-charts false equivalence!

  6. Jan says

    ”Why are you burdening us with this crazy process prior to posting? This is a supreme intrusion, one I’m asking you to remove. Thank you”

    You know, Bettina, you have an amazing sense of undeserved entitlement. This is Robert’s blog, and he set it up in order to inform people of the jihadist threat, both violent, and stealth. He has a perfect right to set it up in any way he chooses. The comments section was instituted purely in the interests of free speech, as he made clear in the format of the old blog.

    I myself have found some difficulties commenting in this new format; indeed, some of my comments appear to have disappeared into cyberspace ! But comments, however valuable and interesting, are not the point of the blog.

    If you don’t like it, don’t post !

  7. gravenimage says

    This is in reply to Kepha’s posting:

    Maybe there are other questions we should ask when we see a headline like this. Yes, I think that marrying of prepubescent girls or those in their early teens is not a good idea; but who are we, who’ve been dismantling and trashing family structure for generations, to lecture the rest of the world at this point?
    ………………………………………………

    Good God, Kepha—*really*? I usually respect your comments, but I remember a year or two ago when you asserted that a young woman would be better off *under the Taliban* than in Berkeley in the 1970s.

    It never ceases to amaze me when otherwise intelligent conservatives buy into the idea that Islam bolsters family values.

    Tell, me—what “values” does *selling a three year old child into slavery to ‘pay for’ a murder support? What does her exploitation, abuse, rape, and abandonment signify?
    I am stunned that on a story about the *forced rape of children* that you would decide that the real problem is the shortcomings of the West.

    For one thing, it is a dark fantasy to imply that all Westerners adhere to the “hook up” culture—you yourself must know many fellow Christians who do not. From their postings, few contributors here would appear to.

    The biggest difference is *force*—no one in the West is forced to live a shallow or cheasy life—but Muslim “values” are all about force.

    Even if the West were as sleazy as you imply, we have that virtue.

    More:

    Why is it that when marriage in the teen years was common for a lot of human history, are our teens too immature to take responsibility for starting a family? Yet somehow, for modern, progressive America it’s no longer any big deal when our teenaged girls become unwed mothers or multiple clients of the “women’s health” (not too healthy for lots of infant girls) clinics, then dependent on public assistance, and our teenaged yobs (backwards boys) are deadbeat “baby daddies”. Something tells me that our society has a little more of which to be ashamed.
    ………………………………………………

    Even in this worst case scenario—bleah—the implication that unwed teen mothers and deadbeat baby daddies are *more* shameful than the forced marriage of *school girls* is pretty questionable.

    And the fact is that a lot of these little girls *don’t* survive their “wedding nights”—or else suffer miscarriages, fistulas, and the inability to bear children.

    More:

    When I was a young man teaching English in Taiwan, I ran into lots of honorable, respectable middle class people–including those who would become my own parents-in-law–who were married in their late teens and as I write now are going on sixty-plus years of marriage.
    ………………………………………………

    Congratulations to them. Were they forced into marriage? Were you and your wife? I doubt it. I also imagine that you fell in love with your wife before you wed, and you had affection and shared values.

    Can you say the same for the little girl sold as blood money and raped by one of her new owners? Somehow I doubt it…

    And the implication that Muslims take marriage seriously is also absurd. Just in the article, we have little girls sold into marriage before they are old enough to know what marriage is. We also have summary divorce, and a girl forced to “marry” her rapist. The is all more awful that even the stuff that makes the tabloid headlines in the West.

    More:

    As a good, then-liberal Baby Boomer American, I was raised to patronizingly dismiss such people as “ignorant third world peasants”. Yet I see the families they’ve raised, the effort they put into educating daughters as well as sons, I cannot be so dismissive any more.
    ………………………………………………

    That’s fine. And your view of these Muslim atrocities? I notice you don’t say…

    More:

    Yes, I’ll probably hear a lot of people kvetching about how horrible this is for women; yet I’ve known so many of my female kin and neighbors who’ve committed their lives to seeking “empowerment”, and all I can say is that too many of them are just about the most unhappy people I’ve met, and the golden age into which they were supposed to lead us is quite frankly more and more a dysfunctional mess.
    ………………………………………………

    This is not either/or. Dumbledore’s Army is erudite and extremely well-educated—she is raising a fairly large family and just celebrated her twenty-fifth wedding anniversary. Champ also just celebrated that milestone—so did my husband and myself. I hold two university degrees myself.

    But do you believe that any of these girls “married” off when should be in grade school are getting any kind of education?

    More:

    Can it be that one reason why we have led a culture that’s produced, on its own, little save slums surrounded by deserts, human predation, futility, and misery to consider it able to knock ours off its perch could be hidden in the sort of article posted here?
    ………………………………………………

    No. The West is, overall, as “ashamed” of its virtues as its legitimate problems and vices. Self-hating Westerners are not, as a rule, wringing their hands over the rate of teen pregnancy (which rates have come down, incidentally), but are as likely to fret over our considering ourselves superior to Muslims for our achievement.

    Yes—there is *plenty* of room for improvement in the West, and I have worked on many of these causes myself.

    But—with all due respect, Kepha—there is *nothing* in the horror of forced child marriage that would make any of the problems of the West one whit better, and much that would make it *very much worse*.

    And this is, of course, not theoretical in the least—Muslim girls in the West are being pulled out of school and sent back to Dar-al-Islam to mary their old cousins. Expect the horrors of child marriage to follow—and in ways that Muslims cannot always cover up.

    The “Honor Killing” of a young woman brought to the United States as a child bride was just one such case. There will be many, many more…

  8. says

    “But comments, however valuable and interesting, are not the point of the blog.”

    Au contraire. Firstly, most sociopolitical forums on the Net have a vibrant comments section — often more vibrant and numerous than Jihad Watch. Secondly, a vibrant participation of readership in a comments section is what makes a forum or blog interesting. If this were one of those blog where no comments are allowed at all, its interest and popularity would likely diminish drastically. The comments aspect of Jihad Watch is an oft-under-appreciated dimension to this blog — even by those who otherwise experience enrichment therefrom.

    Thirdly, to those of us concerned about the problem of Islam — whose problem includes the lack of a sufficient public voice to the people concerned about it — a place like this where there is a kind of unofficial community of participation and mutual venting and contribution of ideas — a comments section is not just some dispensible appendage as Jan seems to think; it is a vital part of the Movement.

  9. says

    P.S.: The Anti-Islam Movement (That Quite Isn’t an Anti-Islam Movement Yet) needs a kind of central Community Comments Center where we can all vent and share ideas. So far, over the years, Jihad Watch has functioned unoffiially as that (though under-appreciated by nearly all and sundry even while benefiting from it). Thus, it has had to do, and will have to do, until someone sees fit to start an official central Community of Comments on the Net. And don’t tell me, “Lemon, why don’t you start it?” Most of y’all don’t like me and have various prickly problems with me, so even if I did start it up tomorrow, most of y’all wouldn’t come anyhow. No, this has to be done by someone with far more popularity and clout. Now, hm, who could that be…?

  10. Bettina says

    LL, if your idea has merit, I’d vote right away for Dumbledores Army and Graven Image to create and handle it. But I think that too many trolls would be permitted in such an open, central community comments site, and for that reason, could eventually blow up in our own faces.

  11. Semeru says

    That story is a sick spoof.

    The authors name and alias is a give away that this is a spoofAbu Musab al-Zarqawi and Husayn Al-Musawi, as you should know are both notorious terrorists

  12. gravenimage says

    LemonLime wrote:

    [Jan] “But comments, however valuable and interesting, are not the point of the blog.”

    Au contraire. Firstly, most sociopolitical forums on the Net have a vibrant comments section — often more vibrant and numerous than Jihad Watch. Secondly, a vibrant participation of readership in a comments section is what makes a forum or blog interesting. If this were one of those blog where no comments are allowed at all, its interest and popularity would likely diminish drastically. The comments aspect of Jihad Watch is an oft-under-appreciated dimension to this blog — even by those who otherwise experience enrichment therefrom.
    ……………………………………….

    I do agree with Jan that this is Robert Spencer’s blog, and that we comment here at his pleasure.

    But I also very much agree with LemonLime—no matter how divided or fractious at times, this *is* a community.

    Moreover, it is vitally important that the Counter Jihad be an active community—far more so than it would be if this was a site for rare stamp collectors or enthusiasts of early Twentieth century wax cylinders recordings.

    More:

    Thirdly, to those of us concerned about the problem of Islam — whose problem includes the lack of a sufficient public voice to the people concerned about it — a place like this where there is a kind of unofficial community of participation and mutual venting and contribution of ideas — a comments section is not just some dispensible appendage as Jan seems to think; it is a vital part of the Movement.
    ……………………………………….

    Agreed.

    Luckily, I believe that Robert Spencer is very committed to maintaining a robust comments section. Some of the bugs have already been worked out.

  13. Elisabeth says

    I said this repeatedly when I stood trial for criticizing Mohammed’s behavior towards Aisha, and I will say it again: wherever this sick behavior originated, a relationship between an old man and a young girl/baby is SICK and is WRONG, WRONG, WRONG.
    I will NEVER stop criticizing this. The thought of a young girl abused like, for whatever reason, is too sick to comprehend.

    If you relativize it, you are complicit.

  14. says

    @DDA and Gravenimage:

    For some odd reason, everything I try to type here gets centered rather than aligned left.

    I appreciate DDA noting my disapproval of the marriage of prebuscent and early adolescent girls. Gravenimage, you probably know me too well by now to take me for someone who takes Islam as a “family values ally”–see my patting Mr. Spencer’s back over his run-in with Kreeft some time ago. Again, my view of Islamic “family values” is that they bless the sins of high status males. ; and, by any Christian standard, are in fact highly immoral.

    But I am enough of a multiculturalist (I do, after all, follow the original “there is neither Jew nor Greek in Jesus Christ” religion) to respect people who manage to produce at least semi-functional families on marriages of teens (admittedly older ones) who are already trained and capable in their roles of homemaker and breadwinner (or ricewinner) when I see my own society growing more and more dysfunctional, and quick to try further “experiements” likely to cause more decay, more riders of the psychiatrist’s couch, more lawsuits by the professionally aggrieved, and produce very little good in the bargain.

    I am griping about two post-Christian systems of sexual mores–Islam and the “liberated” West. I’ve read on these pages so many other people concerned about demographic decline, the threat that a truly ham-fisted system like Islam poses to civilization, and Islam’s creeping influlence over discourse and even law. Yes, these are concerns I share, and one reason I’m drawn to this site. But I also wonder if we in the West–our political, media, and economic elites, and those of the rest of us who acquiesce in their continued dominance–haven’t set ourselves up for body blows by that woeful systematized barbarism and organized ignorance that goes by the name of Islam. One of the big culprits is our continued and systematic assault on family structure, our willingness to “experiment” with something which God and nature has pretty well set in stone (as if general fatherlessness has not made an enormous negative impact on several demographics in my country). Indeed, just as I see Islam as no “family value ally” for the West, I also see much of our chattering classes, inluding the whole of the sexual revolution, especially feminists and the LGBT movement as traitors withing the gate (and I suspect many others here share a similar perspective).

    Further, in the wake of 9/11, I saw Afghan feminists (all seven of them?) paraded around college campuses, seemingly to sell my younger neighbors on putting their lives on the line for the sake of the women of Afghanistan groaning under Taleb oppression. Well, I’m sorry, but I’m not so sure that the bulk of women in the Islamic world would know what to do with even the extensive freedoms and status known by even the most repressed fundamentalist Christian or orthodox Jewish woman; and, after having witnessed the chador-clad screaming meemies of the Iranian revolution in orchestrated chant calling for the death of my country on TV, my chivalrous instincts simply aren’t moved by the plight of Islamic women and girls. And, since I’ve read somewhere that Egypt and Syria lead the world in battered husbands, something tells me that Muslim women have their own means of dealing with their inferior status, further making me feel quite dubious of wasting a further dollar of taxpayer money or the bones of a single American (or allied) youth on effecting feminist change in the Islamic world.

  15. says

    And, since other posters have raised these tragic stories of eight-year-olds dying on their wedding nights, my gripe about our Western “liberated” lifestyle is not condoning what happens to Yemeni child brides. However, disgusted as I am about what happens to child brides (and FGM, etc,), I’m not about to support either intervention in such countries to introduce their girls to the glories of bearing bastards or getting abortions or the sort of public monies job that our modern Western elites will create in order to “do something” about it.

    Indeed, I recall when I was interviewing Cambodian DP’s for humanitarian parole into the USA, I was having dinner with some NGO ladies in Aranyaprathet, Thailand, and hearing them–feminists at home, all–noting with alarm the dangers faced by women inside Cambodia given that so much of the male population over the age of ten had been killed off. Well, I have a hunch that whoever Robert cited over 140,000,000 very young females being married is probably getting bored with teaching Transgendered Intertextuality in Post-Modern Lesbian Poetry at Podunk U and hopes to land a job under the Shrillary Shrew administration in which “work” consists of decrying the marriage of children over steaks (or overpriced vegetarian) in Geneva or Paris. I’m sorry, but I’m not sure I want to spend my tax dollar or build a foreign policy around something like that.

  16. gravenimage says

    Elisabeth wrote:

    I said this repeatedly when I stood trial for criticizing Mohammed’s behavior towards Aisha, and I will say it again: wherever this sick behavior originated, a relationship between an old man and a young girl/baby is SICK and is WRONG, WRONG, WRONG.
    I will NEVER stop criticizing this. The thought of a young girl abused like, for whatever reason, is too sick to comprehend.

    If you relativize it, you are complicit.
    …………………………………..

    Elisabeth, I remember your trial—that you were ever put on trial in the first place in what is supposed to be civilized Europe was *appalling*.

    It also, no doubt, served to make decent people think twice before speaking out against evil—which was, no doubt, its intent.

    I have the greatest respect for you—kudos! If Europe does survive *qua Europe*, it will be because of you and other like-minded heroes!

  17. gravenimage says

    Semeru wrote:

    That story is a sick spoof.

    The authors name and alias is a give away that this is a spoofAbu Musab al-Zarqawi and Husayn Al-Musawi, as you should know are both notorious terrorists
    …………………………………………….

    Once again, Semeru attempts to imply that any criticism of Islam is off-base.

    This story has been picked up by Business Week and the Toronto Star, both respected mainstream publications. Moreover, the basic information included in the article has been covered hundreds of times before—child marriage in Islam is amply chronicled.

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  20. says

    Maybe there are other questions we should ask when we see a headline like this. Yes, I think that marrying of prepubescent girls or those in their early teens is not a good idea; but who are we, who’ve been dismantling and trashing family structure for generations, to lecture the rest of the world at this point?

    Why is it that when marriage in the teen years was common for a lot of human history, are our teens too immature to take responsibility for starting a family? Yet somehow, for modern, progressive America it’s no longer any big deal when our teenaged girls become unwed mothers or multiple clients of the “women’s health” (not too healthy for lots of infant girls) clinics, then dependent on public assistance, and our teenaged yobs (backwards boys) are deadbeat “baby daddies”. Something tells me that our society has a little more of which to be ashamed.

    When I was a young man teaching English in Taiwan, I ran into lots of honorable, respectable middle class people–including those who would become my own parents-in-law–who were married in their late teens and as I write now are going on sixty-plus years of marriage.

    As a good, then-liberal Baby Boomer American, I was raised to patronizingly dismiss such people as “ignorant third world peasants”. Yet I see the families they’ve raised, the effort they put into educating daughters as well as sons, I cannot be so dismissive any more.

    Yes, I’ll probably hear a lot of people kvetching about how horrible this is for women; yet I’ve known so many of my female kin and neighbors who’ve committed their lives to seeking “empowerment”, and all I can say is that too many of them are just about the most unhappy people I’ve met, and the golden age into which they were supposed to lead us is quite frankly more and more a dysfunctional mess.

    Can it be that one reason why we have led a culture that’s produced, on its own, little save slums surrounded by deserts, human predation, futility, and misery to consider it able to knock ours off its perch could be hidden in the sort of article posted here?

  21. says

    “Banning child marriage will cause challenging the marriage of the holy prophet of Islam… [putting] the moral character of the prophet into controversy and challenge.”

    YES Muhammad (lately contrived; lecher supremo)should be questioned, examined, and rejected. what an absolute grotesque character this phantom is.

    maybe the nags at NOW will have something to say

  22. says

    Can we call the relationship something other than marriage? It lacks the notion of adult consent of the girl. Calling the girls captive breeders might be more apt.

  23. says

    Child marriage is pedophilia by another name.

    Pedophilia is normative Islam, rather than an aberration.

    …………………..

    Saudi cleric raped, tortured, and killed daughter, receives small fine

    http://in.news.yahoo.com/saudi-cleric-rapes–kills-5-yr-old-daughter-124831234.html

    ……………………

    Yemen: child died on her wedding night.

    An 8 year old little girl named Rawan died from injuries sustained within her young, immature body when her 40 year old husband had intercourse with her. The child bled to death in this perverted parody of a marriage after she was sold to her “husband” by her impoverished family.

    It would be horrific enough if this was a one-time tragedy, but this is a regular custom for young Muslim girls, especially in impoverished countries. In 2010, a 13 year old girl (a 7th grader in America) died the same way – she hemorrhaged for 5 days until she bled to death after wedding night sex with her husband. Also in 2010, another 12 year old girl died in labor after struggling to give birth for 3 days.

    Apparently girls are far easier to mold into “good Muslim wives” if you get them when they’re young. More than a quarter of girls in Yemen are sold into marriage before the age of 15.

    The husband of little Rawan was not arrested. The parents of Rawan were not arrested. This was all perfectly legal, so Rawan’s agonizing, terrifying death is considered just an unfortunate accident in Yemen, with no more blame laid than if she had been the victim of a random lightning strike or any other unpreventable incident

    http://www.albawaba.com/editorchoice/yemen-child-marriage-human-rights-5190669

  24. says

    “Rights group: Law failing to protect child brides”
    ………………………………………

    Of course the law in Muslim lands is “failing to protect child brides””it is not intended to do so.

    More:

    DUBAI, United Arab Emirates ” Cultural traditions and a lack of legal protections are driving tens of millions of girls around the world into early marriage, subjecting them to violence, poverty and mistreatment, an international human rights group says.
    ………………………………………

    I know they mean well”and thank goodness they are speaking out”but look at this phrasing. You’d think this was the idea of the girls themselves…

    What is really happening is that the families of these girls are selling them off to adult men, usually for for money or other gain.

    More:

    “When a young girl is married and gives birth, the vicious cycle of poverty, poor health, curtailed education, violence, instability, disregard for rule of law … continues into the next generation, especially for any daughters she may have,” the report said.
    ………………………………………

    This is only disregard for *civilized* law”not for Islamic law…

    More:

    The 32-page report found that despite laws that set a minimum age for marriage in many countries, social norms continue to provide a veneer of legitimacy to child marriage in remote villages and even in developed countries.
    ………………………………………

    Actually, when it’s islamic law, this provides more than a “veneer of legitimacy”. And they try to make this out as something that only happens in “remote villages””how does that gibe with “developed countries”? Of course, when it goes on in the West, it is in direct disregard for civilized laws there. But what so most pious Muslims care about Kaffir laws?

    More:

    The report gave examples of cases in countries such as Afghanistan, Cameroon, Guatemala, India, Jordan, Kenya, Malawi and Mali.
    ………………………………………

    Note how they had to toss Guatemala in there, though all the other countries cited are Muslim-majority or at least have large Muslim populations. And not to make light of what a mess as things are in Guatemala,but I would bet that most of the child brides there are more apt to be sixteen than *nine*, as is all too often the case in Dar-al-Islam.

    More:

    Often when child brides are married off to older men, it is to restore or maintain family honor, or to settle a father’s debts or obtain some other financial gain. A girl married off is seen as one less mouth to feed, and the wedding dowry is spent by her family to support itself.
    ………………………………………

    In other words, these young girls are sold like livestock.

    More:

    In some countries, families encourage early marriage to protect young girls from premarital sex and to uphold a family’s honor, according to the report.
    ………………………………………

    And where would something like *that* happen? Only in a place that considers sacralized child rape of a girl who should be in grade school more “honorable” than the specter of a girl at fifteen kissing the boy down the street…

    More:

    In one case, a young girl named Mariam was born in France to parents from Mali. She had never been to Mali until her father sent her at age 14 and her sister at 16 to a village while they were on vacation from school.
    ………………………………………

    How often do we hear about *this* basic scenario? Swap out “France” for “Canada”, or “Germany”, or “England”, or “Australia” or “Sweden”; and “Mali” for “Pakistan”, or “Iraq”, or “Syria”, or “Afghanistan”, and you have the fate of hundreds of thousands of Muslim girls whose families have taken their foul creed to the West.

    How many of these girls just disappear from school, and are not heard from again until they show up on the dole with children of their own?

    More:

    When they arrived, their father took their passports, and Mariam was told to marry her father’s cousin. Her sister was to marry the local imam, or preacher.
    ………………………………………

    Again, *very* common. First off, take their passports so that they can’t escape on their own. And isn’t is odd that *an Imam* should go along with this child marriage? sarc/off

    More:

    In another case in Afghanistan, a 3-year-old girl’s father killed a man. To avoid prison, he handed his daughter over to the victim’s family, which regularly beat her and forced her to do household chores. At 10 she was raped by an older man in the family, and that same year she was married to a teenager from the family.

    Her husband divorced her when she was 12, and she was forced to marry the uncle who had raped her. It was not until she managed to run away that police helped her find shelter with a women’s organization. The uncle was arrested and is serving a 13-year sentence for rape, Equality Now said.
    ………………………………………

    This *poor girl*. And even these slight safeguards will evaporate as soon as the Americans pull out of that benighted hell-hole, and it fully returns to Taliban rule…

    More:

    The U.N. population fund says rates of child marriage are highest in the West African nation of Niger, where 75 percent of girls are married before they turn 18, and a third are wed before age 15…

    In Bangladesh, the rate of child marriage is 66 percent, and in Central African Republic and Chad it is 68 percent. In India, 47 percent of girls are married before they turn 18.

    In the Middle East, Saudi Arabia and Yemen are the only Arab countries that do not have laws that set a minimum age for marriage. According to a December 2011 Human Rights Watch report, approximately 14 percent of girls in Yemen, the Arab world’s poorest nation, were married before age 15, and 52 percent were wed before they turned 18.
    ………………………………………

    Really, just a “tiny minority of….””oh, wait….

  25. says

    Once again Mr Spencer claims Iran’s Ayatollah Khomeini himself married a ten-year-old girl when he was twenty-eight.

    And once again no links to prove this claim

  26. says

    Kepha

    you wrote:

    “Why is it that when marriage in the teen years was common for a lot of human history, are our teens too immature to take responsibility for starting a family?

    “Yet somehow, for modern, progressive America it’s no longer any big deal when our teenaged girls become unwed mothers or multiple clients of the “women’s health” (not too healthy for lots of infant girls) clinics, then dependent on public assistance, and our teenaged yobs (backwards boys) are deadbeat “baby daddies”. Something tells me that our society has a little more of which to be ashamed.

    When I was a young man teaching English in Taiwan, I ran into lots of honorable, respectable middle class people–including those who would become my own parents-in-law–who were married in their late teens and as I write now are going on sixty-plus years of marriage.”

    Yeah: **late teens**.

    By that, what do you mean? And by this, are you *justifying*, or seeing as no big deal, the marrying-off of girls of twelve, thirteen, fourteen, to much older men, that happens all over the non-Muslim world, and in some societies beyond it? It takes a terrible toll on **the health of the girls**. It’s not about whether they’ve been trained to be housewives. It’s about simple, brute, physiological fact.

    Go talk to a midwife and ask her what the statistics are on pregnancies and childbirths that happen below age 15 or 16, and those that happen after that age. I understand there’s a real risk even for well-nourished western kids.

    There is a *real* difference: it plays out in miscarriages, it plays out in obstructed and deadly labours. We hear a lot in our societies about the risks to older (late 30s, 40s) mothers; but **there is a risk for those who are TOO YOUNG** as well. (In other words: the ideal age, at which pregnancy is least risky, is probably between 18 and 33, for women)

    I understand that the medical statistics say bluntly that a girl of fifteen and under is far more likely to suffer pregnancy complications than a girl of 18 ( a girl does not finish laying down her adult skeletal bone structure until she is 18 or thereabouts; if she has a pregnancy and lactation prior to that age, unless she is very, very well nourished she runs a real risk that her calcium stores will be depleted).

    In Yemen, even though they marry off the little girls, they *also* call them “the brides of death”…because **so many of them die**.

    And our ancestors – slowly, painfully – came to recognise the unacceptable cost of too-early childbearing…as Shakespeare did when he gave the following exchange to 13 year old Juliet’s parents: “Father: YOunger than she are happy mothers made”. Mother: “But too soon marred are those so early made”.

    There is a huge difference, biologically, physiologically, between a girl of twelve or thirteen and a girl of sixteen or seventeen. (In the case of boys: many boys of twelve or thirteen have barely begun their pubertal growth spurt, even in the well-nourished western world, let alone in the third world; my thirteen-year-old son has no need to shave).

    Question: would *you* support – would you seriously support, would you actively campaign for – lowering the ‘age of consent’ and/ or the age of legal marriage, for girls, in western countries, from sixteen, to…what? Fifteen? Fourteen? Thirteen? Twelve? Medical certificate stating that she has had her first period?? On the grounds that what was good enough for our ancestors oughta be good enough for us?? (There are all sorts of other things our ancestors did that we have stopped doing, that I’m not in any hurry to go back to, anytime soon).

    And what happens to the research that has actually supported a *raising* of the drinking and voting threshold, because the most complex and adult part of the brain – the part that is involved in high-level decision making and risk assessment – is – so the investigators are now telling us, with the aid of technology and medical knowledge not available to earlier generations – not fully mature till the early twenties, in both males and females?

    Sure, it’s a problem for humans, that there seems to be a gap of some years between the point at which a girl can get pregnant (or a boy can father a child), and the point at which full neurological maturity, physiologically speaking, is attained.

    But I don’t think that would be ‘solved’ by restoring, say, age twelve as the age at which a girl can *legally* marry and have sex! Or even age thirteen, or fourteen, or fifteen. And…who will choose the partner? The girls? Or their parents?

    And if their parents make the choice for them (because, of course, they are too young and silly to make the ‘right’ choice for themselves) and they are *made* to marry even if they don’t *want* to, and if they do not have right of refusal – would you allow a girl aged twelve-seventeen the right to *refuse* a marriage partner selected for her by her parents or other kin? – aren’t you arguing for *forced* marriage?

  27. says

    I should have noted that you did qualify your remarks, above, thus:

    “Yes, I think that marrying of prepubescent girls or those in their early teens is not a good idea; but who are we, who’ve been dismantling and trashing family structure for generations, to lecture the rest of the world at this point?”

    You grant, in a general sort of way, that ‘marrying of prepubescent girls’ and ‘those in their early teens’ (I assume you mean, between twelve and fifteen?) would be ‘not a good idea’. That has got to be the understatement of the year.

    Because so far as *I* can see, it’s not just ‘not a good idea’…it’s **one hell of a BAD idea**, REALLY bad.

    Here’s a reality check: a posting by a jihadwatch commenter some years ago, describing the medical ‘fallout’ from widespread forced ‘marriage’ of young girls, in Afghanistan:

    http://www.jihadwatch.org/2007/02/45-yr-old-divorces-4-yr-old-wife.html

    American_soldier | February 10, 2007 9:56 AM
    “…While in Afganistan, we ran a clinic for people in the village. You wouldn’t believe the number of abused women that were brought there.

    “Young girls around six to 14. They were burned with scalding water, beat, had all kinds of damage to their reproductive organs.

    “Some women within an inch of their life. I am sure alot a killed and there is no reprocussions for the husbands.

    “They were often brought by their husbands, who were about 20 to 30 years their senior. They freak out when their young brides don’t get pregnent or for any reason under the sun. I think most these girls by nature just try to be kids, which they are, and their adult husbands can’t take it.
    “A women thats older than 14 and not married is an old maid.
    Any westren woman that would convert to Islam, should live in Afganistan.”

    The same poster later remarked: ” I forgot to mention the fistulas that alot of these young women suffer. Their young bodies aren’t ready for child birth, Nor can these young women take a full grown man’s penis.

    “The result if often perment [sic: permanent – dda] damage and infetility, which they pay for with a life time of beatings. The situation is even worse in places with female circumcision, like Somalia.”

    But you would tell me to shut up and tell me that I have *no right* to criticise or condemn countries that permit and practise things like that…and why must I shut up? – because some (usually older) teenagers in the western world engage in consensual premarital sex, and some of *those* get pregnant?

  28. Jan says

    ” … but who are we, who’ve been dismantling and trashing family structure for generations, to lecture the rest of the world at this point?”

    Dumbledoresarmy has already magnificently analysed and dissected your post; I would only add that **we** are people who neither approve, sacralise, or legitimise the ‘marriage’ of pre-pubescent girls, which ‘marriage’ is in fact nothing more than slavery, and physical and emotional abuse.

  29. gravenimage says

    Since comments don’t appear to be posting in any order, this is my second reply to Kepha, and in=s is in response to his reply. Kepha wrote:

    For some odd reason, everything I try to type here gets centered rather than aligned left.
    ………………………………………….

    That is just the comment box itself, Kepha—your comments do post aligned left.

    More:

    I appreciate DDA noting my disapproval of the marriage of prebuscent and early adolescent girls. Gravenimage, you probably know me too well by now to take me for someone who takes Islam as a “family values ally”–see my patting Mr. Spencer’s back over his run-in with Kreeft some time ago.
    ………………………………………….

    Actually, you’re right, Kepha—I’ve seen you say this elswhere—I had meant to say, since you had no condemnation in your comments, that this could be *taken* as an acceptance of Muslim “family values”.

    More:

    Again, my view of Islamic “family values” is that they bless the sins of high status males. ; and, by any Christian standard, are in fact highly immoral.
    ………………………………………….

    I believe that they are even worse than that, and enshrine abuse and slavery—but still, we are in general agreement.

    More:

    But I am enough of a multiculturalist (I do, after all, follow the original “there is neither Jew nor Greek in Jesus Christ” religion) to respect people who manage to produce at least semi-functional families on marriages of teens (admittedly older ones) who are already trained and capable in their roles of homemaker and breadwinner (or ricewinner) when I see my own society growing more and more dysfunctional, and quick to try further “experiements” likely to cause more decay, more riders of the psychiatrist’s couch, more lawsuits by the professionally aggrieved, and produce very little good in the bargain.
    ………………………………………….

    Well, I agree—I hate the “hook-up” and “booty call” ‘culture’, and still find it hard to believe that “Cheaters” is an “entertainment” program.

    But I don’t believe that the main problem comes down between marriages between older teens—which, you will note, are still quite legal in the West, though often looked at somewhat askance—and the abuse of forced child marriage in Islam.

    More:

    I am griping about two post-Christian systems of sexual mores–Islam and the “liberated” West. I’ve read on these pages so many other people concerned about demographic decline, the threat that a truly ham-fisted system like Islam poses to civilization, and Islam’s creeping influlence over discourse and even law. Yes, these are concerns I share, and one reason I’m drawn to this site. But I also wonder if we in the West–our political, media, and economic elites, and those of the rest of us who acquiesce in their continued dominance–haven’t set ourselves up for body blows by that woeful systematized barbarism and organized ignorance that goes by the name of Islam. One of the big culprits is our continued and systematic assault on family structure, our willingness to “experiment” with something which God and nature has pretty well set in stone (as if general fatherlessness has not made an enormous negative impact on several demographics in my country). Indeed, just as I see Islam as no “family value ally” for the West, I also see much of our chattering classes, inluding the whole of the sexual revolution, especially feminists and the LGBT movement as traitors withing the gate (and I suspect many others here share a similar perspective).
    ………………………………………….

    Sure—I have my own criticism of our culture and where it is heading, and have done a fair amount of work on these issues.

    But I still believe that much of it comes down to force—as pernicious as many of these influences are in the West, unless one is a victim of human trafficking—which is *illegal*—then no one in the West is forced to live an immoral life, whereas force is the very foundation of abuses in Islam.

    More:

    Further, in the wake of 9/11, I saw Afghan feminists (all seven of them?) paraded around college campuses, seemingly to sell my younger neighbors on putting their lives on the line for the sake of the women of Afghanistan groaning under Taleb oppression. Well, I’m sorry, but I’m not so sure that the bulk of women in the Islamic world would know what to do with even the extensive freedoms and status known by even the most repressed fundamentalist Christian or orthodox Jewish woman; and, after having witnessed the chador-clad screaming meemies of the Iranian revolution in orchestrated chant calling for the death of my country on TV, my chivalrous instincts simply aren’t moved by the plight of Islamic women and girls.
    ………………………………………….

    Well, I am—and in part, because this is *exactly* what pious Muslims want to impose on *our* daughters, as well.

    More:

    And, since I’ve read somewhere that Egypt and Syria lead the world in battered husbands, something tells me that Muslim women have their own means of dealing with their inferior status…
    ………………………………………….

    What? You lost me there, Kepha.

    This is not women “dealing with inferior status”—this is just more of the same.

    Just as supremacist Muslims abuse women, children, Infidels, and lower-status males, caregivers often come to abuse their charges, be they older relatives or *older, dependent husbands”.

    This is not a redress of having been brutalized, as you for some reason appear to think, but just a sick continuation of the same evil cycle. *Ugh*.