China: Buddhist monks training to defend against jihad terror attacks

Hangzhou-Lingyin-Temple-courtyard-Sebastien-BertrandOne certainty: if these monks ever did have to defend themselves against a jihad attack, the international media would portray their defense as Buddhist violence against Muslims, and the global “human rights community” would issue indignant condemnations of the brutalization of Muslims. The fact that these monks never would have been training in this way were it not for jihad violence will only appear around the 43rd paragraph of the story, if at all.

“Chinese Monks Get Martial to Defend Against Terrorism,” by Dexter Roberts for Bloomberg Businessweek, April 3:

As fears of domestic terrorism grow in China, some monks are getting martial.

At the 1,700-year-old Lingyin Temple in Hangzhou, a 45-member team (including 20 monks and all 25 security guards) has been organized to combat possible terror attacks, according to the official China Daily. “The monks prayed to Buddha during the day and trained at night. Only those aged 20 to 40 with an agile body and quick reactions can join the team,” the newspaper reported, noting that some members of the antiterror team are military veterans.

The Lingyin Temple, built in 326 and famous for its beautiful mountain scenery, receives 10,000 visitors a day, so “it was deemed necessary to set up such a team to prepare for possible terrorist attacks,” explained the English-language paper.

The decision to set up the team follows the brutal attack March 1 in the Kunming Train Station, in which 29 people were killed and another 143 injured. “The temple also stockpiled shields and batons at several locations, and its security guards will carry batons and pepper spray at all times,” the paper said.

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Comments

  1. Philip Jihadski says

    Aaaaaand…Mazo will be by any moment now to spout his usual, anti-American crap.

    3…..2…..1…..

  2. Davegreybeard says

    How refreshing.

    Perhaps our U.S. Military should do a little “outreach” to these wise Buddhists so that a more complete understanding of Yin and Yang, Good and Evil, Friend and Foe could be achieved.

    Imagine the “diversity” credits that could be garnered if such an “outreach” were to take place.

  3. JAMES says

    I wish them luck but it will take more than shields, batons and pepper spray to defeat these Islamic dogs.

    • says

      “I wish them luck but it will take more than shields, batons and pepper spray to defeat these Islamic dogs.”

      I agree, but we must not forget that these terrorists are cowards, they don’t fight. They hide, plot and hit when we don’t expect it. Our best defense is a PREEMPTIVE strike; arrest them BEFORE they execute their dirty plans, and once in jail, they must never be released.

      • Christian A. Beltram says

        Just arresting these terrorists is not enough. They should be executed in order to prevent them from converting other people to their evil ideology.

    • Realist says

      Make that monks with calm, focused minds and martial arts training in addition to shields, batons and pepper spray…

      In a Kunming-style incident, I would bet on kung-fu fighting monks over knife-wielding crazed jihadis any day.

      • JAMES says

        You can bet the next incident the cowards will use bullets
        and bombs against un armed women and kids.

        They will have to fight fire with bigger fire.

        • umbra says

          Accessing firearms in China is very difficult. Unauthorised possession of firearms carries severe sentence, possibly capital punishment. Therefore, blade weapons are the only real alternatives for islamic terrorists in China. In which case, batons and shields are useful.

          If firepower is required, then the state security forces will respond with deadly force.

  4. Rogier Bosschaart says

    sorry, this is not a comment on the above story, but a question. What is going on with ”printer friendly”? Most of the time it is not working, but telling me I will be redirected, and nothing is happening any more. Is this a mistake at my end or is your website causing this? I very much want to print some of your entries!
    Thanks in advance for your attention to this problem.
    Rogier Bosschaart. Amsterdam.

    • says

      The system is working. When you get this message “You are being redirected…”, click on the Printer logo without waiting “being redirected”.

  5. Nils Eldor says

    I am a Buddhist since past 40 years and feel great sorrow and horror looking at the Islamisation of the world. The idea that there is a God out there demanding slave like faith and murder by his followers (and yes it is always a he) is grotesque. With the Abrahamic religions humankind have non or little possibility to ever rise to its potential. And that is a sorrowful thing indeed as we could become great, very great.

        • says

          The problem is not “Abrahamic religions” in general; the problem is Islam, and the Muslims who put it into practice. Nils Eldor started out so well, then went South at the end.

        • Nils Eldor says

          I am not this Mr.Dude. I understand now what you talk about, that there is a person with that name who post here. I am not him. Sorry for my mistakes, I am not originally English speaking.

        • Mo says

          I believe you.

          This idea that Christianity is as bad (or almost as bad) as Islam is a common one. People spout it off all the time. And never once do they give evidence for it.

          That’s because it’s false, and there is no evidence for it.

        • Nils Eldor says

          Mo, I am from Sweden and now live in northern Norway. I could give you page up and page down on all your questions. I know quite a lot on Christian history and religion, mostly in Europe though, but I do not feel like doing it, it is late night here and I do not want to get into arguments with Christians. I agree that Islam is far worse then Christianity but in no way is Christianity a friendly innocent religion that have done much good to humankind, most often it have been quite the opposite. Right now the Catholic Church try to make its believers in Africa think that using a condom gives you AIDS. Just as an example. Well good night to all of you.

        • Mo says

          ” I agree that Islam is far worse then Christianity but in no way is Christianity a friendly innocent religion that have done much good to humankind, most often it have been quite the opposite.”

          Nonsense.

          Without Christianity, science, as a discipline, wouldn’t have flourished. It’s the biblical worldview that teaches that the universe operates under observable, predictable laws that we can count upon, thereby allowing study.

          Without Christianity, the idea of human rights wouldn’t flourish. It is the biblical worldview that teaches that human beings are created in the image of God and therefore human life is sacred and should not be abused.

          It’s Christianity that has been the foundation for things like the building of hospitals and orphanages and relief agencies and promoting literacy and human rights – on and on and on I could go.

          These things all have their foundation in the biblical worldview. Not the Islamic worldview or the Hindu worldview or the Buddhist worldview or the atheist worldview. The biblical worldview.

          This is observable, demonstrable fact.

          And to head off any accusation, no, I am not comparing Islam to these other worldviews. No other worldview is at war with the rest of humanity in the way that Islam is. My point was that none of these worldviews are responsible for all of this “good to humankind”. They come from the biblical worldview. To say otherwise is simply false.

          “but I do not feel like doing it, it is late night here and I do not want to get into arguments with Christians.

          I know this game. People come in, post falsehoods and silly accusations of this or that, with zero evidence, and then when they are called on it they say, “Oh, I don’t want to argue.”

          It’s so frustrating.

    • Wellington says

      Nils Eldor: I respect Buddhism and think it an almost infinitely superior faith to Islam, but you condemn with too broad a brush. Judaism and Christianity are subtle and enlightened religions, as Buddhism is, and are not a threat to liberty and tolerance, as Islam is.

      As for rising to maximum potential, I’d say the Jewish and Christian spheres of mankind have achieved as much, actually more I would argue, than any other worlds of man, including the Buddhsit world, which tends to err by not emphasizing the worth and dignity of the individual enough (multiple lives, I guess, mitigate against this). Also, as Nietzsche observed, Buddhism is a religion of weariness. Can’t do things like get to the moon, invent TV and radio, other good things like cars and refrigerators, air conditioning too, never mind the really good stuff like the scientific method, modern medicine and democracy, when you’re regularly being weary and contemplating the essence of things. The Buddhist world developed none of these good things. In fact, and I mean no disrespect, what did the Buddhist world achieve that the Judeo-Christian world has not?

      • Nils Eldor says

        Wellington, are you trying to give me the idea that Christianity invented the radio or the telephone, or put man on the moon? It most certainly did not, although the slave like mentality of the Christian church and its work ethics in English industry during the 1800 paved way for much of today’s inventions and economy. The idea that Buddhism is a religion of “weariness” is a Christian interpretation coming out of the theological departments of the European universities during the enlightenment era of 1700 – 1800 in which all the so called religious scientists were all Christian priests. Buddhism is not a religion of “weariness” or negative attitude towards life. And yes the Christian church have at every moment of development in the western world stood in opposition to any change. Now I do not want to get into any argument, only I do not agree that Christianity is the inventor of either science, western culture, democracy or human rights. But I can agree that the industry and change in the west have often been done as a reaction towards Christianity. Most often the Christian religion who in itself is a European invention have been used by rulers of Europe to solidify their own grip on power, … and it is the same even today.

        • Mo says

          @ Nils Eldor –

          “although the slave like mentality of the Christian church and its work ethics in English industry during the 1800 paved way for much of today’s inventions and economy.”

          There is no “slave like mentality” taught in the Bible or Christianity.

          ” And yes the Christian church have at every moment of development in the western world stood in opposition to any change.”

          Nonsense.

          ” Now I do not want to get into any argument, ”

          Then why did you bring it up?

          “only I do not agree that Christianity is the inventor of either science, western culture, democracy or human rights.”

          Of course it is. Without the Christian God and the biblical worldview, none of these things are even possible.

          Now, how about that ISLAM, which is the focus of this site?

        • Nils Eldor says

          Sorry Mo, but I do not agree and no one in modern religious science or history would agree. Please read up on European history during 1800 – 1900, the Christian church in Europe have indeed been contrary to any advancements in the modern European society and still is today. Agreed though that Protestant work ethics is behind the long hours in factories all over Europe and the colonialist attitude towards anyone who is not a white Christian. True the Christians are for the most part not very dangerous, or are they? Well freedom of religion is not one of the inventions of the Christians. I might seem harsh and unfriendly, I would just like to see some real change and like the Muslim the Christians too think they are right and every one else is wrong, not a very good place to start.

        • Mo says

          @ Nils Eldor –

          Without the foundation of the biblical worldview, science, western culture, democracy or human rights would not be possible. Period.

          “True the Christians are for the most part not very dangerous, or are they?”

          Here we go. Another one acting like Christianity and Islam are the same.

          I will ask you one time, as I’ve asked ENDLESS times to people:

          Show me where the Bible has any open-ended commands for Jews or Christians to commit violence against unbelievers.

          And then show me where Jews or Christians are committing such acts all over the world, on a regular basis, in obedience to those commands.

          Do not dare to compare Islam and Christianity. They are NOTHING alike.

          Now, provide to me this evidence or tell me you have no intention of doing so, or else do not waste my time any further.

          I long ago reached the limits of my patience with people like you making such ridiculous claims. This site is called Jihad Watch. It is not called Christianity Watch. There’s a reason for that.

        • Nils Eldor says

          Mo, I will not waste your time. As this forum is censored to talk only on Islam I will end my words here.

        • Mo says

          @ Nils Eldor

          “Mo, I will not waste your time. As this forum is censored to talk only on Islam I will end my words here.”

          No one is censoring anything here.

          I’ll take this as an admission that you have no such evidence. (Because you know no such evidence exists.)

        • Angemon says

          The rehash of mr. Dude posted:

          the Christian church have at every moment of development in the western world stood in opposition to any change.

          Nonsense. Pure, unadulterated, ignorant nonsense.

        • Wellington says

          With phrases of yours, Nils Eldor, such as “the slave like mentality of the Christian Church,” and crude twistings of what I really said (e.g., “that Christianity invented the radio or the telephone”—-I said no such thing, rather I asserted that the Judeo-Christian world has an extraordinary number of achievements), you reveal what makes you up far more than you realize.

          You are either a liar or a very poor excuse for a Buddhist. Oh, btw, the comment about Buddhism being a religion of weariness was made by Nietzsche, who was by no means, I mean by no stretch of the imagination, a Christian. You couldn’t even get this right.

          As for the Christian world, per your remark, always standing in the way of change, you overlooked such Christian endorsements of major changes like Gothic architecture, the intellectual architecture of Thomas Aquinas, Italian Renaissance painting, the inauguration of the Baroque and Pope Leo XIII’s acceptance of Darwinian theory. So, a really bad take on your part.

          You have a lot to learn, not the least being that of the importance of graciousness. Again, you’re a very poor excuse for a Buddhist—–or something worse.

      • Kepha says

        @Wellington:

        Nils Endor and his ilk are legion. They’re “Buddhist” because Buddhism is exotic and strange, and, as good 20th century folks who’ve been told that their God is dead (Nietzsche, whom I don’t find peachy), go out to find a new one.

        I wonder what Nils would think of the Theravadins, who say a woman must not hand anything directly to a monk lest she pollute him, and will even render a piece of furniture unfit for a monk simply by unwittingly sitting on it? I wonder what he’d think of the Mahayana temples on their home ground where they display pictures of women being led around the depths of Hell in portable stocks by demons while the children they aborted tug at their clothing?

        I freely admit that I see abortion as a horrible sin, but I doubt that even old Uncle Kepha is as misogynistic as Buddhism in Asia . Maybe Nils is one of the few Western Buddhists who has actually accepted the breadth and depth of one or another Buddhist traditions. Maybe not. But his comments seem very close to the usual Western malcontent–of whom Muhammad Russel, among others was one prominent example.

        And I wonder what he makes of the technological backwardness that virtually all benighted 19th and early 20th century Western travelers noted all over those parts of the world where Buddhism holds sway?

        • Wellington says

          Good points all around, Kepha. Thank you. Especially important is the FACT that the Judeo-Christian world, among all of man’s worlds, has wired into its theology a path for true equality between man and woman. As far as I am concerned, and as you know I am not religious, this represents one of the greatest achievements of the Judeo-Christian tradition. No other tradition in this regard exceeds it. None.

          On the specific matter of abortion, even though I an reluctantly, unenthusiastically, BARELY, pro-choice, I would still comment to the effect that, a la Thomas More, a society which was optimally moral would have to be pro-life and not pro-choice. And so, in other words, and as a very good friend of mine who is a devout Russian Orthodox believer has said, for modern society to adopt a pro-life position at present would be the height of hypocrisy considering its many immense moral weaknesses.

      • says

        In the “serious play” of life (Plato’s spoudaia paidia), the Buddhist approach is to err on the side of the play.

        In terms of the tension towards transcendence cultivated by Western spirituality — which includes a caution not to reify that toward which one is tending through faith, hope and love — the Buddhist approach to the dangers of reification is to lop transcendence altogether.

        And so, while the religious West (as opposed to the incoherently secularist West) may, in the serious play of life, too often err on the side of seriousness, the Buddhist tends to “go straight to Nirvana, don’t pass Go, don’t collect $200″. Ironic, for all the “it’s the journey not the destination” pap they purvey with a smile. Doubly ironic, in that the incoherently secularist West agrees, in its casual and fitful flirtation with pop buddhism, that there is no transcendence, and that therefore only a journey and no destination. The only difference, perhaps, is that the secularist West, still semi-consciously (but largely ungratefully) beholden to its Protestant roots, tends to like to be the Driver, while the Buddhist is the passive-aggressive Passenger.

    • Champ ✞ says

      Question: “What is Buddhism and what do Buddhists believe?”

      Answer: http://www.gotquestions.org/buddhism.html

      Excerpt:

      “Buddhism teaches that Nirvana is the highest state of being, a state of pure being, and it is achieved by means relative to the individual. Nirvana defies rational explanation and logical ordering and therefore cannot be taught, only realized. Jesus’ teaching on heaven, in contrast, was quite specific. He taught us that our physical bodies die but our souls ascend to be with Him in heaven (Mark 12:25). The Buddha taught that people do not have individual souls, for the individual self or ego is an illusion. For Buddhists there is no merciful Father in heaven who sent His Son to die for our souls, for our salvation, to provide the way for us to reach His glory. Ultimately, that is why Buddhism is to be rejected.”

      • Nils Eldor says

        Champ, that text is not good, it is faulty and wrong. The person who wrote it have no understanding of what Buddhism is. Sorry about that. When I first entered a comment here I did not realize this place was mainly visited by Christians. And the reason I will not go on answering questions and posting arguments is that my experience with Christians is that they are as sure about the absolute truth about Christianity as is the Muslim. To get into this would be in the end like putting my head in a hornets nest. And it is true, we are peaceful people, Buddhism is the true and real religion of Peace. So I wish you all the very best in the world and hope all goes well for all of you. And please do not ponder how much or little or what I think and so on, I do not think anyone of you know me. Have a good time folks.

        • Champ ✞ says

          Champ, that text is not good, it is faulty and wrong. The person who wrote it have no understanding of what Buddhism is. Sorry about that.

          ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

          No need to be sorry. And my research shows that this information is not faulty at all, but completely true, so it seems the problem lies with you.

          Regardless of our disagreement over this particular matter, I pray that you remain safe against islamic jihad.

          BTW, Robert Spencer has written an excellent book that you may want to consider reading, entitled …

          “Religion of Peace? Why Christianity Is And Islam Isn’t”

          Christianity is the true religion of peace!

        • Mo says

          “Champ, that text is not good, it is faulty and wrong. The person who wrote it have no understanding of what Buddhism is. ”

          According to all the Buddhist websites/info I’ve ever seen, it’s perfectly accurate.

          “Sorry about that. When I first entered a comment here I did not realize this place was mainly visited by Christians.”

          It isn’t. There are all sorts of people here.

          ” And the reason I will not go on answering questions and posting arguments…”

          Is because you know you cannot answer the questions put to you. And because you have no idea what you’re talking about in the first place.

          “… is that my experience with Christians is that they are as sure about the absolute truth about Christianity as is the Muslim. ”

          Here we go again.

          YOU are also sure that what you’re talking about is the absolute truth. Otherwise you wouldn’t be saying it.

          Now, stop comparing Islam and Christianity. Stop comparing Muslims and Christians. It’s not Christians that these Buddhists are preparing themselves against. Why? Because it’s not Christians that are the threat. Why? Because their Scriptures don’t teach to attack anyone. That’s why Christians are NOT doing any such things. Period.

          Stop with your comparisons already. They are false. You know they are.

          “To get into this would be in the end like putting my head in a hornets nest.”

          Boo hoo! You think you can come here, post lies and nonsense, and then when you are called on it you say you won’t discuss it anymore and then have the nerve to play the victim?

          And then you claim to be a Buddhist and seem to have no idea what your own religion teaches?

          I don’t know what sort of games you’re playing here, but it’s very tiresome.

        • says

          “…my experience with Christians is that they are as sure about the absolute truth about Christianity as is the Muslim.” — Nils Eldor

          “Kepha, the word Nirvana comes out of 3 Sanskrit words Nir-Va-Djna and literally mean “without- wrong- thought”. It is a state of being in which a persons thought response is accurate to the thing perceived. Which mean there is no pre-conceived ideas. It is a state of living right here and now in tune with what ever is happening on both inside and outside of the person.” — Nils Eldor, a few hours later.

          Ah, the paradox of Buddhism! :) Or is it perhaps the incoherence of Politically Correct Multi-Culturalism in the pleasantly addled mush of a brain of a Western convert to Buddhism in his self-hating search to leave his own civilization and join an Other…?

    • Free Speech says

      Actually, you are a cowardly Buddhist equivocator. You started off on the real problem, Islam, then ended up with “Abrahamic religions”. You fell right into the trap of Islamist equivocation just like most liberals do.

    • Defcon 4 says

      It’s only one of the “Abrahamic” religions that’s the problem. The same one that has slaughtered some 250 million people since it’s bloody birth. The same one that regularly slaughters the other “Abrahamic” faiths on a regular basis.

    • gravenimage says

      Nils Eldor wrote:

      I am a Buddhist… With the Abrahamic religions humankind have non or little possibility to ever rise to its potential.
      ……………………………

      Nils, you can hold any opinion you want on religion.

      But realize that it isn’t Jews and Christians who are threatening Buddhists—just Muslims. This has nothing to do with “Abrahamic religions”—a term almost exclusively used by meretricious Muslims, incidentally—but just with *Islam*.

    • says

      As a Buddhist atheist I agree Nils. Religion…all religion….is the problem. Buddhism is not a religion, it is a philosophy of life. What a pity more people don’t understand the difference .

      Islam is not a religion either.

      From now on can I ask everyone to stop referring to islam as a religion?

      Islam is a political, social, legal and military IDEOLOGY wrapped in a thin skin of religion.

      Calling islam a religion is like calling Nazism a religion. They both have elements of religious behaviour, but they are definitely not religions.

      By calling islam what it is….an EVIL IDEOLOGY….we can start to make people see it for what it is. Whenever we talk about islam, let’s call it a “political, social, legal and military IDEOLOGY wrapped in a thin skin of religion.”

      PLEASE SHARE THIS EVERYWHERE.
      Let’s get people calling islam what it really is…an IDEOLOGY!

  6. Kepha says

    Monks of the Chinese Mahayana tradition played a large part in the deveopment of Gong Fu, after all.

    As for Hangzhou, it is truly a beautiful city. It was the capital during the Southern Song, and has a number of noteworthy monuments going back to that period (heck, China is full of marvelous ancient monuments). When I visited, I was thrilled to take a walk on a dike that had been built by Su Shi (aka Su Dopngpo), one of 11th century China’s great scholar officials and poets.

    I also visited a temple dedicated to the general Yue Fei, which is also a popular tourist attraction. I noticed that in Chinese, they posted lower entry fees for Chinese than the ones posted in English for tourists. I politely but firmly reminded the ticket sellers that I thought their policy highly discriminatory, gave China a reputation of being racist and eager to take advantage of its visitors, and that I wasn’t the guy who’d take his baby off the back to let him relieve himself into the flowerbeds. The seller carefully looked both ways, then sold me a ticket at the Chinese price.

    In any case, Yue Fei was a patriotic general who effectively resisted the northern invaders, but his enemies at court smeared him as disloyal.

    While I am not a Buddhist, I will hand it to them that the Buddhists of the Chinese Mahayana tradition know how to situate a temple. If you’re ever in Taiwan, Lion Head Mountain (狮头山)on the border of Xinshu and Miaoli counties would also be a good place to visit.–for the same reason.

    Sorry, guys. Mention of Hangzhou made me nostalgic.

  7. duh_swami says

    I’m all for it guys. train up. it wouldn’t hurt all able kuffar to take up a self defense class. You never know when one of those subversive types might sneak up on you, or attack your temple.

    A stick is better than a club…A good man with a short stick, can take out a bad man with a long knife.

    • gravenimage says

      duh Swami

      I’m all for it guys. train up. it wouldn’t hurt all able kuffar to take up a self defense class.
      …………………………….

      Just what I was going to say, Swami. Infidels *everywhere* could take martial arts classes or something like Krav Maga. There are even one day classes where you can learn some elementary self-defense techniques.

  8. Michael Copeland says

    “You can be full of kindness and love, but you cannot sleep next to a mad dog,”
    Ashin Wirathu, Buddhist monk

  9. Philip Jihadski says

    “Wellington, are you trying to give me the idea that Christianity invented the radio or the telephone, or put man on the moon? It most certainly did not”
    _____________________________________________________________

    Bullshit. Unadulterad bullshit. WE invented all of that.

    Marconi, Edison, Scott Glen.
    _______________________

    Goddamned it! Yes! I am using ths Lord’s name! No way, no how is theer anything in history that will point to Mohameddists inventing ANY of this stuff.

    • Wellington says

      My 6:54 P.M. post above, PJ, to Nils Eldor’s ungentlemanly response to my initial 5:22 P.M. post to him came three minutes after yours. Something’s not right with ole’ Nils Eldor. I suspect a troll——or, as I have already opined, one damn poor excuse for a Buddhist. Either way, he has a lot of antipathy towards the Judeo-Christian tradition and the Western world in general. In short, he’s full of “agenda”—–and something else too.

      Hope you and yours are doing well. Instructive, no, how difficult it is at times to get the truth of things out there? So much obfuscation by ignoramuses or those with a malevolent agenda. Well, if the latter, it’s ultimately just another kind of ignorance I would argue, so it really can be reduced to different variations of not knowing, of ignorance. Islam is a sterling example of “not knowing.” Take care, my Internet friend.

      • Philip Jihadski says

        Oh, W – my dear friend…we’ve been at it now for …what? 10 years?
        __________________________________________________________

        You are a gem. You are brilliant. Every comment that you make leaves me humbled. I go to sleep at night trying to decipher your words.
        ______________________________________________________

        Thank God, or Atheism, or Buddha – or noone…I am, finally, able to somewhat grasp your meaning.
        __________________________

        God, or Agnosticism, or Buddha – or nothing…..bless you, Dear Friend…and all of your loved ones.
        _____________________________

        I Remain Yours Faithfully,

        DMD

  10. Mo says

    “if these monks ever did have to defend themselves against a jihad attack, the international media would portray their defense as Buddhist violence against Muslims, and the global “human rights community” would issue indignant condemnations of the brutalization of Muslims.”

    So true.

    It really is like the world expects people of all kinds to just lie there and let themselves be slaughtered by jihadists.

    I often wonder if these liberals and other dhimmis would do exactly that if the time came. I assume the natural sense of self-preservation would kick in and they’d fight back like any normal human being would do when under attack by anyone/anything.

    But when I recall the way Brits let Lee Rigby be slaughtered like an animal, in public, in broad daylight without so much as tackling his killers until police came, and how they allowed his murderer to stand there and talk into a camera, blood still all over his hands… I wonder.

    It really is a like a madness that has overtaken the entire world.

    • Defcon 4 says

      @Mo

      I think the apathetic, moral retards who regularly spew the argument of false equivalence that all religions are the same will convert to pisslam long before their lives are threatened.

  11. Philip Jihadski says

    @Kepha:

    With respect:

    “As for Hangzhou, it is truly a beautiful city. ”

    Depends on what your definition of “beauty” is.
    ________________________________________

    The “beauties” of Hangzhou is entirely dependent on the Communist Paradigm hthat lies underneath.

    Let me say it once and for all.
    ________________________

    Hangzhou is, indeed, PHYSICALLY beautiful – but underneath – like most things deemed to be “beautiful”, lies, oftentimes, something, very insidious.

    Totalitarianism. Control.
    ____________________

    Nothing else matters. Commies suck.

    • Kepha says

      Philip, far be it from me to praise the Communists. I was speaking of Hangzhou’s physical charms–and its history.

      China is far, far older than the Communist Party, and I strongly suspect that it will outlast the Communist Party, too.

      • Philip Jihadski says

        I stand corrected, Kepha.

        You are right. My apologies, Dear Friend.
        _________________________________

        In the end, Hangzhou IS, Indeed, a very, very beautiful place….

        And I might add…the women are absolutely DIVINE!

        • Kepha says

          Women in Hangzhou may be beautiful, but they can’t hold a candle to the Taiwanese Hakka. And of course I’m perfectly objective.

  12. Bezelel says

    In spite of the western buddhists condescending arrogance I’ve witnessed,they do profess spiritual principals,except humility, that have the makings of good neighboors<spelling intentional,as long as they keep their philosophy whining to themselves. The incense smells ok. The Eastern Buddhists? They are where they are supposed to be and islam is not.I hope they will do what they are supposed to do and drive out islam.

  13. PAthena says

    The monks at the 1,700-year-old Lingyin Temple in Hangzhou, a 45-member team (including 20 monks and all 25 security guards) are right to be organized to combat possible Muslim terror attacks. Afghanistan used to be Buddhist, as the great statue of the Buddha there showed. That statue was destroyed by the Taliban.
    What would the Buddha have thought of Mohammedanism? The Buddha – Siddartha Gautomah – investigated 15 different accounts – “religions” of how to live – and then was enlightened (“Buddha” means “enlightened”) and discovered the Four Noble Truths (Life is suffering, Suffering comes from desire, Eliminate suffering by eliminating desire, Eliminate suffering by following the eight-fold path (right thinking, right doing, right speaking, . . .). He would have found the pretensions of Mohammedanism as empty as all the other 15 ways he had explored.

  14. EyesWideOpen says

    We must offer support to all those Buddhists in China, Burma and Thailand in our defense against Jihad. I am pleased the this community sees the pure evil that is Islam and is willing to fight back and not lie down for the Jihadis to have their way with them.

    Support the 969 movement!!!

  15. Davegreybeard says

    @Mo

    “But when I recall the way Brits let Lee Rigby be slaughtered like an animal, in public, in broad daylight without so much as tackling his killers until police came, and how they allowed his murderer to stand there and talk into a camera, blood still all over his hands… I wonder.

    It really is a like a madness that has overtaken the entire world.”

    Aye Mo, “madness.”

    But you can bet your life that such a thing will never happen, should it come to pass that I breathe the same air with similar Jihadis, bent on murder.

    At least not in THAT way – for I promise you, there will be more, prostrate upon the field .

    • gravenimage says

      Mo and Dave, the only person in the crowd who tried to do *anything* besides call the police was a woman who screwed up her courage and approached Lee Rigby while he was lying in the street to see if she could comfort him.

      Of course, the poor victim was *way* beyond help of any kind at that point.

      Still, this represents the “high-water mark” of bravery and moral decency among the bystanders, which rather speaks for itself.

      Indeed, this widespread cowardice and passivity in the West is a major part of the problem.

      • Mo says

        @ gravenimage

        “Indeed, this widespread cowardice and passivity in the West is a major part of the problem.”

        Yes. In my view this phenomenon is nearly as disturbing as the violent attacks themselves.

        Normal people in all cultures that I know of (and even most animals!) will naturally fight against any threat. It’s an instinctive reaction. It’s utterly unnatural to just… do nothing. But we are seeing this more and more.

        I don’t understand how we’ve come to this point. I simply don’t.

  16. JIMJFOX says

    To all you bible bashing Christians- Nils is right, the CC has a great deal to answer for; it is NOT the all-things-bright-and-beautiful you claim it to be and to assert scientific progress was facilitated by religion is BS of the highest order.
    From Gailileo, Copernicus all the way to Alan Turing, the church has persecuted men of reason.
    http://www.wired.com/2012/06/famous-persecuted-scientists/

    So get your facts straight, Wellington et al. Religion really DOES “Poison Everything”

    • Kepha says

      @JIMJFOX:

      Who says we Christians are bright and beautiful? Our whole thing is admitting that we are forgiven sinners and living our lives in gratitude for the salvation God has given us in Christ.

      Bezalel has spoken of the condescending arrogance of Western Buddhists. Come to think of it, I think that would apply to almost all Western post-Christians of any stripe. As William Lane Craig noted in a number of his debates, the “God is not Great” crowd often has little besides the mocking bon mot rather than real arguments–and I’ve noticed they also tend to get really mad when, for example, they accuse you of worshiping an old man on a cloud and you reply with “God is a Spirit and they that worship him must worship him in Spirit and in truth (John 4:24) or “But will God indeed dwell on earth? behold, the heaven and the heaven of heavens cannot contain thee; how much less this house that I have builded?” (I Kings 8). In short, they get very irked every time we fail to live up to their stereotypes.

      And as for the peaceableness of Buddhists, I freely admit that their system of ethics is a gentle one. But I’ve also worshiped beside Chinese Christians whose ancestors of a little more than a century ago were persecuted by the Righteous Harmony Fists acting in the name of the Mahayana tradition; and as a diplomat dealt with Karen Christian refugees from Burma who had been persecuted by those who are incensed that they are not Theravada Buddhists. And also talk with a Sri Lanka Hindu Tamil some day if you’re tired of us Christians!

      @Wellington: I have a nodding respect for those who are grudgingly and not too happily pro-choice (they recognize a few things about the both positions). As for your Orthodox friend, I would only say that part of a pro-life ethic is to fight and remove those who are anti-life: the murderer, for example. This, from Genesis 9 on, has been one reason why we’ve had government instituted among men. Sure, this side of Glory, justice will be imperfect. But that doesn’t mean it isn’t to be pursued.

      I’ll also note the anti-life ethic in the jihadi view of martyrdom. “We love death more than you love life”. How different is this from Polycarp of Smyrna, who fled from the persecuting pagan Roman government, but when caught admitted that he had served Christ for eighty years and would not turn on the king who had saved him, accepting martyrdom. Why? It is not cowardice, but because he had learned from the Scriptures of the Old and New Testaments to love and honor life–for his savior was one who was The Life that is so strong it conquered death after three days.

      Getting back to Buddhism, I seem to recall that Nirvana is actually the state of non-being. Seems that this ethic, gentle as it is, ultimately seeks extinction.

      • Nils Eldor says

        Kepha, the word Nirvana comes out of 3 Sanskrit words Nir-Va-Djna and literally mean “without- wrong- thought”. It is a state of being in which a persons thought response is accurate to the thing perceived. Which mean there is no pre-conceived ideas. It is a state of living right here and now in tune with what ever is happening on both inside and outside of the person. One experience life as a union, undivided and this have nothing to do with extinction. It was the Christian priests during the Enlightenment era 1700-1800 who tried to analyse with concepts something that is beyond concepts, and as a result started to teach that the Buddhist Nirvana is extinction, it is not. In fact there is nothing in the entire creation, the multi-fold Universes that is not alive and will for ever be so.

        I am not an arrogant person and I know very well that I have very good education and have great knowledge. I know very very well the history of Christianity and I know about the great things that many Christians have done. I do not deny that, what I look at and what I will not like are all the times I have talked with Christians over so many years and when it comes to the end, the only thing they can say is that “everyone else is wrong, and I am right, no matter what”. So tell me is that not arrogance?

        Can anyone who write in here and who is a Christian honestly say that other views, other faiths and paths in life other then Christianity can be true and right also! When you look at yourself, can you honestly say you could believe that?

        • Nils Eldor says

          Thing is, when looking back at all these years when I talked with Christians I just feel sad. I love the European culture and large part of it is Christianity, and to me it is the creativity of man that amazes me. The art, the philosophy, the architecture, the humanist principles. This was all created by Europeans, and I adore it. But man made this, not God.

        • Bezelel says

          As a Christian who associates with people of various spiritual efforts, for lack of a better description, as well as atheists and agnostics.Of the mix, the degree to which I am willing to associate depends on agreement on the definition of the term “Universal Spiritual Principals”and their willingness to practice them to the best of their ability.
          I regret that the Buddhists are being forced to compromise their principals by islamists whose principals include global domination by force. Their is nothing spiritual about that behavior. I cannot recognize islam as a valid attempt to relate to God. The only part of islam that resembles a valid attempt are the parts that were plagiarized from the Holy Scriptures.
          The book “Divine Comedy” gives a good perspective on those who don’t accept Christ. It’s not church doctrine but it’s an interesting point of view.

        • Free Speech says

          “and as a result started to teach that the Buddhist Nirvana is extinction, it is not”

          It is extinction of the ego. I thought you would know that.

        • Mo says

          @ Nils Eldor

          “I am not an arrogant person and I know very well that I have very good education and have great knowledge. ”

          You’re not arrogant but in the next breath you boast about your “good education” and “great knowledge”? Hilarious!

          “I know very very well the history of Christianity…”

          Apparently not, since you insist on comparing it with Islam as though they are more or less the same.

          “I do not deny that, what I look at and what I will not like are all the times I have talked with Christians over so many years and when it comes to the end, the only thing they can say is that “everyone else is wrong, and I am right, no matter what”.

          Everyone thinks they are right about whatever it is they are saying. If they didn’t think they were right, they wouldn’t be saying it. Right?

          “So tell me is that not arrogance?”

          You think you are right in what you are saying here, don’t you? Is that arrogance?

          What matters is whether what anyone’s saying about anything actually IS right/true.

          “Can anyone who write in here and who is a Christian honestly say that other views, other faiths and paths in life other then Christianity can be true and right also! When you look at yourself, can you honestly say you could believe that?”

          Nice try at trying to draw people into some debate about Christianity vs. other religions.

          That’s not the purpose of this site. That wasn’t even the point of this particular post.

          Islam and Christianity are in no way equal. Stop trying to make them so. Stay on topic, which is ISLAM.

    • Mo says

      @ JIMJFOX

      “To all you bible bashing Christians- Nils is right”

      Huh?

      “the CC has a great deal to answer for; it is NOT the all-things-bright-and-beautiful you claim it to be and to assert scientific progress was facilitated by religion is BS of the highest order.”

      What is CC? And where are people here saying it is “all-things-bright-and-beautiful”?

      Answer me these questions before I waste my time going further.

    • Wellington says

      I have my facts straight, JimFox. And your contention that “Religion really DOES ‘Poison Everything'” is an absurd statement. I suppose Gregorian Chant, Gothic architecture, Aquinas’ Summa Theologica, Italian Renaissance painting, the sculputres of Donatello and Michelangelo, Baroque architecture, Handel’s Messiah, ah, the list is a very long one of religiously inspired efforts by man, are all poison. Is that about right, doofus?

      Ironically, I think you’ve made a religion out of not having one. Get lost and maybe try learning something of substance for a change.

  17. Free Speech says

    Who cares what the “human rights community” thinks or says? Do they pay our bills?

    As with all discussions on articles about Islam, I see this one has also degraded into the typical “all religion is bad” mess. Good grief, people, can’t you stick with the topic? Go find an “all religion is bad” article and equivocate and conflate there. Even though I generally agree with you, this sissy boy equivocation about “all religion” is not productive and does not get the fight against Islamism one nanometer closer to being won. In fact, it is damaging to the fight.

    The monks training is a good thing, but they are wrong in their age range restrictions and they are wrong in making a news story out of it. They should be silent and carry a big fist. But, at least, they are doing something and not whining about being victims. We could take a lesson from them. I took my lesson from them in 1973 and have never stopped.

    Creating and training the warrior mindset is the most important part of it. We should do the same.

  18. Mazo says

    And JW stops at nothing to try to inflame religious tensions where they don’t exist.

    The article says NOTHING about Islam. I know for a fact that Hangzhou has a Hui community and Mosques like thousands of others of Chinese cities and towns, including major citie like Beijing, Xi’an, Nanjing, Wuhan etc. (and Chengdu)

    Never once was there any riots between Hui and non-Muslims in those cities, there was never any violent attacks.

    The reason why many Uyghurs commit knife attacks is because they are allowed to carry knives* (for cultural reasons because of PC) under Chinese law, while Han and Hui people are not allowed to carry knives. Uyghur migrants in eastern Chinese cities are also very poor migrant workers, some of them are children trafficked by gangs and as a result many sink into crime, drug abuse, poverty, and suffer lack of education.

    *Contrary to the BS you are told about no PC in China.

    • Angemon says

      The comedian posted:

      Never once was there any riots between Hui and non-Muslims in those cities, there was never any violent attacks.

      The reason why many Uyghurs commit knife attacks is because they are allowed to carry knives* (for cultural reasons because of PC) under Chinese law, while Han and Hui people are not allowed to carry knives.

      Are you saying that if Han and Hui were allowed to carry knifes they’d also carry out many knife attacks?

      • thomas_h says

        @the confused clown, Mazo,

        “Imperialist gunboats?”
        Under Vatican flag, manned by Jesuits?

        “If you think foreigners seizing land, raping, killing and beating civilians and openly violating your host country’s law isn’t going to provoke that kind of response then how would westerners react if someone did that to them?”

        Western missionaries seized land, raped, killed and beat innocent civilians in China, or Japan, Korea, or any other place

        Your hatred makes you spout idiocies.
        Have you been run over by an imperialist gunboat?

        • thomas_h says

          I somehow forgot the question mark.

          is:
          “Western missionaries seized land, raped, killed and beat innocent civilians in China, or Japan, Korea, or any other place”

          should be as above but ending with question mark:

          “Western missionaries seized land, raped, killed and beat innocent civilians in China, or Japan, Korea, or any other place?”

        • Mazo says

          Look up at what German troops did in Shandong province of China under the directives of their bloodthirsty Kaiser.

    • Defcon 4 says

      What happened to the peaceful Buddhists of Afghanistan again lying muslime swine? What happened to the the two, 2000 year old Buddhist statues that resided in Afghanistan? What are scuzzlums like you doing to Buddhists throughout S.E. Asia again?

    • gravenimage says

      Mazo wrote:

      And JW stops at nothing to try to inflame religious tensions where they don’t exist.

      The article says NOTHING about Islam
      ………………………..

      What crap. Mazo hopes we will miss this passage:

      “The decision to set up the team follows the brutal attack March 1 in the Kunming Train Station, in which 29 people were killed and another 143 injured.”

      And who was responsible for the horrific Kunming Train Station attack? Why, that would be *Muslims*.

      More:

      The reason why many Uyghurs commit knife attacks is because they are allowed to carry knives* (for cultural reasons because of PC) under Chinese law, while Han and Hui people are not allowed to carry knives.
      ………………………..

      Is Mazo trying to imply that Han Chinese would be running amok mass murdering people in train station if only they were allowed to carry knives?

      This is witless.

      Moreover, people in many parts of the world are allowed to carry knives, and you don’t find these kind of attacks.

      The only reason the Muslims used knives here was two-fold: guns and explosives are hard to come by in China; and most of the victims would not even be armed with knives.

      But except for the choice of weapons, this is virtually identical to Muslim attacks on train stations in India, Russia, and Britain. The attack on the Mumbai train station was especially similar.

      More:

      Uyghur migrants in eastern Chinese cities are also very poor migrant workers, some of them are children trafficked by gangs and as a result many sink into crime, drug abuse, poverty, and suffer lack of education.
      ………………………..

      The usual. Uyghurs didn’t carry out the Jihad attack on the Kunming train station because they are poor or involved in crime. This was Jihad terror, pure and simple.

      • Mazo says

        There were multiple mass stabbings by jobless migrant workers at schools in the previous years in China, and had nothing to do with Islam.

        Also, having a weapon on hand gives an incentives for criminals to use it.

        It is Uyghurs who committed terrorist attack on Kunming- because they are Uyghur seperatists- I have never heard of a Hui, Salar, or Dongxiang terrorist attack or a seperatist.

        • Angemon says

          The undecided Mazo posted:

          It is Uyghurs who committed terrorist attack on Kunming- because they are Uyghur seperatists

          That woooooosh sound everyone heard? It was Mazo backtracking and changing his argument yet again. Here’s what you said earlier:

          The reason why many Uyghurs commit knife attacks is because they are allowed to carry knives* (for cultural reasons because of PC) under Chinese law, while Han and Hui people are not allowed to carry knives.”

          I even asked you if you were saying that if Han and Hui were allowed to carry knifes they’d also carry out many knife attacks. Remember that? Was that why you changed your statement? And remember when you claimed JW was jumping into conclusions by saying the attack was perpetrated by Uyghurs? Didn’t you say that muslims in china kept their religion to themselves and wouldn’t engage in violence? Have you eaten the tube of sand yet?

          And now i have a new question, regarding your latest statement: why are Uyghur separatists? Does it have anything to do with them wanting the creation of an islamic state in Xinjiang?

    • Kepha says

      Yes, Mazo, you’re right about the Hui community in Hangzhou. I ate some pretty good 牛肉馅饼 there–but not as good as the ones I had in Gaoxiong, Taiwan!

  19. Free Speech says

    Learn to protect yourselves and prevail in armed and unarmed combat. It’s just that simple and that difficult. You can’t just go “take a self defense class” and expect to be able to protect yourselves against trained jihadists. It takes about two years to become a self-correcting/progressing mechanism. The world is getting worse due to Islamism, drugs, gangs, terrorists, criminals, etc. and we’re just getting weaker. If you start now, you’ll be getting fairly skilled by 2016. Do you think the world will be a safer place then. What are you waiting for?

  20. Mazo says

    Some 19th western missionaries wondered why Chinese were so anti Christian and rioted against Christians while they tolerated Hui living in China and building Mosques.

    The answer – Hui (and Salars and Dongxiang) don’t proselytize their religion to non-Muslims. Neither did they arrive in China in imperialist gunboats and demand extraterritorial rights and seize land from natives.

    @ Kepha

    First of all, Righteous Harmony Fists is based on Chinese folk beliefs and not Buddhism, secondly, look at who provoked them and committed far worse atrocities.

    If you think foreigners seizing land, raping, killing and beating civilians and openly violating your host country’s law isn’t going to provoke that kind of response then how would westerners react if someone did that to them?

    China did not stop western missionaries from going to Yunnan and Tibet, and look at how violently the Tibetan Buddhists reacted to imperialist proselytyzing. Tibetans don’t have problems with Tibetan Kachee Muslims since they didn’t proselytize like western missionary.

    • Defcon 4 says

      “If you think foreigners seizing land, raping, killing and beating civilians and openly violating your host country’s law isn’t going to provoke that kind of response then how would westerners react if someone did that to them?”

      Ever heard of irony islam0nazi?

    • Bezelel says

      I bet all those people who have suffered persecution from the Harmony Fists cult will be glad to know it was just a myth.

      • Mazo says

        I am talking about the activities of Imperialist nations like Germany and Italy in China right before the Boxer Rebellion, where German troops were encouraged to brutally massacre civilians by their bloodthirsty Kaiser.

    • Angemon says

      But do tell, what do westerns reacting to muslim invasions have to do with buddhist monks training to defend themselves against muslim jihadis?

  21. Defcon 4 says

    At least the Buddhists aren’t engaging in the big lie called muslime outreach programs. At least they aren’t submitting to the tender mercies of those who would kill them and annihilate them (and have done so, demonstrably in Afghanistan).

  22. indian says

    Recently I have read some articles with logical arguments which leads to the inference that the “Kabba” was actually a Hindu Temple of Lord Shiva. In the article-TRUE WORLD HISTORY-VEDIC ARABIA, the author Aditi Chaturvedi has provided logical arguments of this. This article is available on internet in PDF format. There is many other similar literature is also available on internet. In this respect I am curious to know about the actual reality. Whether any one on islam-watch do have any idea-information-knowledge of the real pre-islamic history of Arabia ? I am interested to know the truth.

    • gravenimage says

      indian wrote:

      Recently I have read some articles with logical arguments which leads to the inference that the “Kabba” was actually a Hindu Temple of Lord Shiva.
      ……………………………..

      I’ve heard this theory myself, indian.

      I think it very unlikely. There was a pre-Islamic history of pagan, Sabean, Jewish, and Christian worship in the Arabian peninsula.

      There is no recorded history of Hindu worship in Arabia—nor, really, in most of the lands between the Indian subcontinent and Arabia.

      Muhammed’s tribe, the Quaraish, were supposed to have had control of the Ka’aba. From all accounts, they were pagan—there is nothing to suggest that they were Hindu.

      The Ka’aba appears to have been a pilgrimage site for a variety of different pagans, who worshipped various gods and godesses common at the time—including Al-lah and his daughters.

      • Kepha says

        Well, Buddhists got as far west as Alexandria. The word translated “peacocks” in the Bible (tukkiyyim–exotic things Solomon’s fleets brought back) may be cognate to a southern Indian word, indicating that even in Old Testament times, there was contact between the Indian subcontinent and the Middle East . Hence, I’ll say that the Hindu origins of the Kabbah are within the realm of possibility-it’s just that we can’t really know unless someone does some real archaeologcial work there.

  23. says

    Re: “the international media would portray their defense as Buddhist violence against Muslims, ”

    Not necessarily. You should remember that these monks are not Israelis, nor are they Jews.

  24. dumbledoresarmy says

    Buddhists in arms in Thailand.

    http://www.globalpost.com/dispatch/news/regions/asia-pacific/thailand/110721/buddhists-arms-introduction

    All-Buddhist militias in southern Thailand must defend themselves against Islamic militants. Their temples have become fortresses ringed with razor wire.

    http://www.globalpost.com/dispatch/news/regions/asia-pacific/thailand/110721/buddhists-arms-part-2

    Part 2: Buddhists make the best targets

    “Monks were once the lowest-hanging fruit, unarmed targets attacked to inflict peak damage to Buddhist morale. The army has since decided to guard them at all hours. Troops have transformed Buddhist temples into military camps.

    “Wacharapong’s temple in Yala city is, for all practical purposes, a fortress with a tall golden spire in the middle. It is defended by G.I.s, their helmeted heads just visible above walls of black sandbags. Barracks trailers crowd the temple grounds.

    “We have more than 100 soldiers here,” said the Lak Muang temple’s 62-year-old abbot, Tong. “And we have only seven monks.”

    ‘His monks can still perform alms runs. Each morning, two pre-pubescent novice monks in day-glo orange robes trod barefoot into town and collect food. But as merit-making Thais spoon rice and curry into their alms bowls, an entire platoon stands guard.

    ‘All those guns, all that concertina wire piled high as hay bales around holy grounds. Does it not undermine Buddha’s teachings?

    ‘”It is not a contradiction,” said Abbot Tong in a whispery monotone. “The soldiers try to act according to Buddha’s principles. But the other side does not.”

    “We’re at a disadvantage,” the abbot said. “We don’t wage battle. If we catch them, we look after them with karma in mind. If they catch us, we are treated like animals.”

    {Nota bene: this monk has absolutely *nailed* the key point – Mohammedan rejection of reciprocity. – dda].

    ‘But while monks are defenseless, their flock is armed to the teeth”.

    • Mazo says

      I remember when you blatantly lied that Thailand annexed Pattani during a war with Burma.

      China has traditionally supported the Malay Sultanates and China was the one who forced Thailand to give up its overlord status over the Malay peninsula. Thailand use to have the entire Malay peninsula as their vassals, with Thailand attacking and forcing the local Malay chiefs into tribute status before China ended it.

      http://www.jihadwatch.org/2014/02/indonesia-armed-muslim-mob-blocks-construction-of-church/comment-page-1#comment-1013083

      Most of the Sultanates in southeast asia were peaceful until provoked and invaded by the colonialists, Moros started raiding the Philippines only after Spain started attacking them.

      In fact they were mosly on the receiving end of violence. Thailand (Ayutthaya) had long dominated the Malay states by attacking them, and reducing them to vassal status, forcing Malay Kings to acknowledge the Thai King as their lord and pay tribute. Around 1400, Parameswara converted to Islam, changed his name to Iskandar Shah and paid tribute to China, asking the Chinese for help against Thailand. The Chinese then placed the Malacca Sultanate under Chinese protection and forced the Thai to give up their overlord status over the Malays.

      The Portuguese too were reknown for their piratical activities by the Chinese. The Portuguese conquered the Malacca Sultanate in 1511 and brutally sacked the city, massacring thousands of civilians and enslaving people. They then tried to enter relations with China, but the Malay Sultan sent a letter to China about the Portuguese invasion. After that, China imprisoned and executed the Portuguese delegation, defeating the Portuguese twice at Tamao, and wiping out Portuguese pirates along the coast of China, demanding that the Portuguese restore the Malay Sultan to his throne.

      Thailand was free to resume its attacks on the Malays again after the fall of Malacca. Again, Thailand reduced Malay Sultanates like Pattani and Kelantan to vassalage, forcing the Malay Sultans to pay alleigance to Thailand. After several Malay rebellions against the Thai, the Thai split Pattani into several vassal Sultanates. The British in 1909 demanded that the Thai cede Kedah to Thai rule, after signing a treaty with the British, the Thai then directly annexed Pattani as a province instead of being just a vassal state, since they didn’t want the British taking anymore, that is why there is an insurgency in Thailand today.

      http://www.jihadwatch.org/2014/03/western-media-condemns-terrorist-attacks-that-happen-at-their-door-but-show-sympathy-to-terrorists-killing-people-brutally-in-china/comment-page-1#comment-1016978

      The reason Thailand annexed Pattani, is because of the Anglo Siamese Treaty in 1909. Ayutthaya (Thailand) traditionally dominated the Malay peninsula [before the year 1400], after invading and defeating the local Malay chieftans/princs and forcing them into vassalage. One of these Malay Princes, Parameswara, converted to Islam, [around 1400] became Iskandar Shah, founded the Malacca Sultanate asked China for help and protection, and Ming China forced Thailand to give up its vassal and grant Malacca independence, Malacca then became a Chinese protectorate and tributary.

      After the Portuguese conquered (pillaged and massacring civilians ) Malacca in 1511 (China later punished Portugal for their act), Thailand resumed its attacks on the Malays and forced the Malay Sultanates into vassalage. Again.

      These Malay vassal Sultans has to acknowledge the Thai King as their lord and pay tribute. Thailand’s Malay vassal Sultanates included Pattani, Kedah, Kelantan, etc. Pattani rebelled against Thai overlordship, and Thailand responded by dividing Pattani into several vassal Sultanates.

      Then the British came, turned the Malay Sultanate of Johor into a protectorate, and then forced Thailand to hand over their vassals in Kedah and Kelantan to British Malaya. That was what the Anglo Siamese Treaty in 1909 was about.

      The Thai then directly annexed Pattani as a province, abolishing its vassal state status, in order to prevent the British from taking Pattani too.

      So you see, the reason Pattani is in Thailand, is because the Thai wanted to keep the British out, not because the Malays launched a sneak attack in 1909 while Thailand was fighting Burma, which I’ve seen you guys claim.

      The reason Pattani is directly controlled by Thailand, is because Thailand wanted to shut the British out and stop them from adding another Sultanate to British Malaya.

    • Mazo says

      There was also no love lost between Tibetan Buddhist Lamas and French Catholic missionaries, with the former reacting savagely to French imperialism by torturing and beheading French priests and massacring converts to Catholicism.

      Father Jules Dubernard was beheaded by the Tibetan Lamas after being tortured, and his head was mounted on a monastery.

      http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Révolte_tibétaine_de_1905

      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1905_Tibetan_Rebellion

      http://www.maristmessenger.co.nz/2013/05/01/missionary-audacity-the-mission-to-tibet/

      “In south-west China, Fr Charles Renou established the first mission in Tibetan territory. while near the frontier of Sichuan and Yunnan the little missions that were set up were constantly threatened by troops from the Tibetan monasteries. The lives of these missionaries were filled with exiles, destruction and reconstruction, and, during the rebellion against Chinese control in the Tibetan borderlands in 1905, violent and cruel murders.

      Blessed Maurice Tornay
      And we recall here Fr Maurice Tornay, a canon–regular of Grand St Bernard, assassinated by lamas on August 11, 1949, on the frontier of independent Tibet, and who was beatified by Pope John-Paul II in 1993. His crime was to have penetrated into the interior of Tibet in order to plead with the government of Lhasa for Christians, who were forbidden the right to exist in their own country. Well, Blessed Maurice was the eleventh and most recent of Tibet’s missionary martyrs. But, from 1854 to 1940 ten MEP missionaries had suffered the same fate in similar circumstances. Perhaps people forgot to beatify them?”

  25. dumbledoresarmy says

    Observe Mazo jumping in to try to nullify the effect of what I just posted.

    He doesn’t seem to be able to understand that jihadwatchers’ (and that includes Christian jihadwatchers’) sympathy for Thai Buddhists who are currently under attack from Muslims is not nullified by knowledge of episodes of persecution of Christians by some Buddhists in Tibet, nor even by our knowledge of sporadic persecution of Christians by some Buddhists in some Buddhist-majority states – Bhutan, Sri Lanka, Myanmar – today.

    Further, he just doesn’t understand that our condemnation of the systemic and continuous and mandated-by-Islamic-canonical-texts Muslim persecution of Christians (or of anyone else non-Muslim) will not be affected by our simultaneous awareness of the sporadic persecution of Christians that has been carried out by non-Muslims in other places and times…whether it be in Tibet or, for that matter, in first-century Rome.

    What I see is a transparent attempt to “split the camp” of the Infidels by trying to foment Christian resentment against Buddhists-as-persecutors-of-Christians while deflecting attention from Muslims as attackers-of-everybody.

    To repeat: I’m a big picture girl, and what I see is what Huntingdon saw – that Islam’s borders are bloody, and so are its innards.

    And to be blunt, given that I know that Mazo is a Muslim, I don’t believe a word he says – because even where he might be including items that are historical fact (mixed with, I have no doubt at all, a massive amount of lies and BS; but trying to work out which is which is like trying to pick grains of wheat out of horse-droppings), he has an agenda, and his agenda as a Muslim is to defend Islam and obscure the global Jihad.

    final remark: what *I* see in his posting above re China, Thailand and Muslims, is that the Muslims – as they have done in many other places and times – appear to have been busy exploiting or trying to exploit rivalries and divisions between different sets of Infidels. They have been playing *that* game ever since the Mohammedan Mob first got going…Muslims took advantage of the fact that Byzantium and Persia had worn themselves out in mutual warfare. And his attempt to represent the Malay Muslims in that region as purely innocent victims of unprovoked aggression from Thais, etc, simply does not wash with me; because I have seen so many cases of Muslims wailing “Victim! Poor us!” that have turned out, upon sceptical closer examination, to have been instances of mohammedans sneakily starting a fight and then spinning round and somehow managing to make it look – to the less observant – as if *they* were the victims.

  26. Kepha says

    @DDA: Mazo is historically right when he points out that Pattani and that area were conquered by the Ayutthaia Kings back in the 1400’s. Yes, Buddhists beat up on the Muslims at that time.

    But I happen to know that many Muslims in Thailand are perfectly loyal subjects of the Prabhat Somdet PraChao yu Hua–including the Mandarin-speaking Hui of the northern regions (and Mazo seems to be a Hui). I’ve run into officers of the Thai military, officials of their government, and ordinary people with southern Muslim roots, too. As I’ve said elsewhere, I have a sneaky hunch that the anonymity of the terrorist groups in S. Thailand may indicate that a lot of the Muslim population is not sympathetic to their cause.

    As for Buddhist-Christian troubles, Mazo isn’t a educating me.

    And I will also add that I’m sympathetic to the Royal Thai Government and its loyalists in the southern conflict. The modern RTG has never made a point of deliberately insulting the beliefs and culture of its Muslim subjects (or Christian ones, for that matter), tends to behave decently, and respects a wide range of rights. My impression of Thailand in the two years I served there was that it was a fundamentally decent country on many levels (even if I may deplore its sex industry and the way it treated refugees when the international community wasn’t looking–albeit re the latter, I also noted that Thailand in the 1990’s stood out like a sore thumb of relative prosperity jutting into a very impoverished neighborhood).

    So, to the Thai government and people–chayo, chayo, chayo!

  27. dumbledoresarmy says

    Why I do not trust a word that Mazo says.

    He identifies himself as a Muslim. That means he belongs to the People of the Lie; to the Religion, or Cult, of the Lie, par excellence. To a human gestalt that perhaps more than any other in human history has perfected Deception, Nonsense and Lies, and outright Bullsh*t.

    Here are two classic passages from Muslim canonical texts.

    Narrated in Sahih al-Bukhari, v7, p102, that Abu al-Darda’ said:
    “(Verily) we smile for some people, while our hearts curse (those same
people).”

    Sahih Bukhari:

    Volume 4, Book 52, Number 268:
    Narrated Abu Huraira:
    Allah’s Apostle called,: “War is deceit”.

    Volume 4, Book 52, Number 269:
    Narrated Jabir bin ‘Abdullah:
    The Prophet said, “War is deceit.”

    Furthermore, their infernal allah himself is proudly defined as the best of plotters, or deceivers, or tricksters.

    A classic essay on the centrality or all-pervasiveness of deceit, in Islam.

    http://www.meforum.org/2095/islams-doctrines-of-deception

    Islam’s doctrines of deception
    by Raymond Ibrahim
Jane’s Islamic Affairs Analyst 
October 2008

    And another:

    http://www.meforum.org/2066/war-and-peace-and-deceit-in-islam
    War and Peace – and Deceit – in Islam
    by Raymond Ibrahim
 Pajamas Media
 February 12, 2009

    And another:

    http://www.meforum.org/2538/taqiyya-islam-rules-of-war

    “How Taqiyya Alters Islam’s Rules of War: Defeating Jihadist Terrorism,” by our old Jihad Watch friend, the great scholar Raymond Ibrahim in the Middle East Quarterly, Winter 2010.

    More on Islamic deception, of which there are many subspecies, none of them boding well to Infidels.

    http://www.raymondibrahim.com/11267/tawriya-lying

    Tawriya: New Islamic Doctrine Permits ‘Creative Lying’
    by Raymond Ibrahim
 Stonegate Institute
 February 28, 2012

    Once one fully “gets” this, one’s default attitude to a professed and proudly self-identified mohammedan – such as “Mazo” – will be to distrust every word that issues out of their mouths. As in the famous saying – “every word was a lie, including “a” and “the””.

    there may be individual facts or factoids embedded in any given mohammedan’s postings, but one may as well assume that they are presented, framed, in a way calculated to further the agenda of Islam and harm the camp of the Infidels.

    Here at jihadwatch, people have woken up or are waking up to the *global* jihad.

    In the past, it has been greatly to Muslim advantage that non-Muslims have often not *recognised* jihad for what it was, in any given ‘theatre’ in which it was being waged. My ‘reading’ of Mazo is that he is attempting to restore that condition of confusion, of non-recognition or dissociation. And, of course, the more divisions he can create or exacerbate, along the way, among the assorted Infidel camps, the better for the Ummah; because then the mohamedan mob can play off one set of infidels against another.

  28. Mazo says

    Tibetan Muslims (Kachee) were allowed to live in Tibet for hundreds of years because thy didn’t proselytize and appropiate lands, and have no problems with Tibetan Buddhists. The only problem is ethnic, some Tibetan rioters attacked both Han and Hui owned property because of economic resentment,

    • Mazo says

      To clarify, the Tibetan Buddhist theocracy which governed Tibet (under the Dalai Lamas) allowed Tibetan Muslims to live in Tibet and practice their religion while they explicitly banned Catholicism.

      The same policies were followed by several Emperors of China, since Christian missionaries often came as agents of foreign countries, Christianity got banned, while the non-proselytizing Muslim populations in China were all allowed to practice the religion.

      Some Christian missionaries wondered why Islam was allowed in China, while China didn’t want Christian missionaries, its because of the associated behavior of the missionaries (expropiating native land without paying, extraterritorial rights being granted to Christian converts and foreigners), that the reaction was hostile. One of the reasons for the Boxer rebellion was that criminals who converted to Christianity were automatically granted protection from Chinese law because French imperialists decided to force this on China. French priests were also given extraterritorial immunity.

      France had imperialist interests in Tibetan areas in Yunnan, Sichuan because French Indo-China was nearby, and they forced China to open up Tibetan areas to missionaries and to expropiate native land for them. Also there was the British invasion of Tibet in 1904 which set off massive hostility to foreigners among Tibetans.

  29. Mazo says

    I love how DDA ignores the fact that the Malays were being preyed upon BEFORE converting to Islam. Although some Malay states like Kedah were Muslim in the 11th century, it was Parameswara who converted along with most of the Malays in the early 1400s.

    The Thai forced the Malays into vassalage after conquing the entire Malay peninsula before most Malays became Muslims. Note that is said Parameswara converted to Islam, changed his name to Iskandar Shah, and then he asked China for help in gaining independence from Thailand and created the Malacca Sultanate as a protectorate of China.

    The Sulu state, Mindanao, and Brunei had relations with China before they became Muslim Sultanates. In fact, historians say that China in part played a rolein making them Muslim, China sent Arabs as ambassadors to Brunei like p’u-kung-chih- mu and P’u Lu-hsieh and they proselytized Islam. (for some reason western and Brunei historians still use Wade Giles romanization for their names).

    The Arab Makhdum Karim arrived on Mindanao in a Chinese junk to proselytize Islam to the Maguindanao Moros.

    The Ming dynasty China sent Muslim officers to Sulu to proselytize Islam to the Tausug Moros, along with Arabs.

    The Spanish attacks on the Moros in fact only increased Islamization among the animist peoples of Mindanao, as resistance to the Spanish became identified with Islam.

    Many of the Muslim Sultanates in southeast asia like Sulu, Malacca, and Samudra Pasai were founded with Chinese approval and were protectorates and tributaries of China. They looked to China for protection and as a source of authority, like how alot of countries in NATO do for the USA.

    The Malay Sultans (and formerely the Sulu Sultans) even wear yellow robes which were originally inspired by the yellow robes of the Chinese Emperors.

    It was the Aceh Sultanate on the other hand, which looked to the Ottoman Empire for protection, invoked the name of the Ottoman Sultan and dressed like him.