Several years ago I was scheduled to debate Shabir Ally but the debate was abruptly canceled without explanation. Since then, I’ve made it clear several times that I was willing to debate him, but he never responded. Now we know why he has been ducking me: he knows what I say to be correct, and didn’t want to be put in the position of denying it in a debate.
Just as Shabir Ally says here, the Qur’an allows men to marry up to four wives, and have sex with slave girls also: “If you fear that you shall not be able to deal justly with the orphans, marry women of your choice, two or three or four; but if you fear that ye shall not be able to deal justly, then only one, or one that your right hands possess, that will be more suitable, to prevent you from doing injustice” (Qur’an 4:3) The Qur’an teaches that Infidel women can be lawfully taken for sexual use (cf. its allowance for a man to take “captives of the right hand,” 4:3, 4:24, 23:1-6, 33:50, 70:30). The Qur’an says: “O Prophet, tell your wives and your daughters and the women of the believers to bring down over themselves of their outer garments. That is more suitable that they will be known and not be abused. And ever is Allah Forgiving and Merciful.” (33:59) The implication there is that if women do not cover themselves adequately with their outer garments, they may be abused, and that such abuse would be justified.
Also, a Muslim wife may not refuse sex. A hadith depicts Muhammad saying: “If a husband calls his wife to his bed [i.e. to have sexual relation] and she refuses and causes him to sleep in anger, the angels will curse her till morning” (Bukhari 4.54.460).
And: “By him in Whose Hand lies my life, a woman can not carry out the right of her Lord, till she carries out the right of her husband. And if he asks her to surrender herself [to him for sexual intercourse] she should not refuse him even if she is on a camel’s saddle” (Ibn Majah 1854).
“‘No role of consent in marriage and slavery’: Video of Canadian Islamic cleric Shabir Ally justifying marital rape, sex slavery in Islam goes viral,” OpIndia, August 30, 2020:
In a video that has now gone viral on social media, a Muslim cleric in Canada can be seen justifying ‘marital rape’ in the context of Islam. The cleric is Shabir Ally, a Canada-based Islamic scholar and Imam.
Although the contentious video titled, ‘The Historical Roots of Female Slavery’ dates back to September 2016, it was recently shared on social media by the Twitter handle named ‘Ex-Muslims of North America.’ In the said video, Shabbir Ally discussed at length about ‘women’s right to consent in marriage’, ‘sex slavery in Islam’, and the implication of religious beliefs in ISIS.
There is no ‘consent’ in Islamic marriages, claimed Shabir Ally
In one such clip shared on Twitter, the Islamic scholar reflected on the idea of ‘feminism’. Citing the teachings in Islam, Shabir Ally said, “The woman’s main responsibility in a marriage is to fulfil the sexual needs of her husband. And for that reason the husband has the right and claim to this (referring to sexual intercourse). And she cannot refuse.” Through this claim, he demolished the concept of ‘consent’ in Islamic marriages.
Marital rape is ‘permissible’ though not ideal
Further, he cited interpreters of the Quran to suggest that even ‘marital rape’ is justified in the light of Islam. Ally stated, “Some speak of the possibility that the man can force himself onto his wife. And she cannot refuse because that is his ‘right’.” He then tried to ‘trivialise’ it by claiming that ‘marital rape’ is not an ‘ideal situation’ but then added that it is the duty of the woman to be ‘co-operative’ under all circumstances.
“When her husband calls her for that particular action, she should be ready and willing to engage,” Ally emphasised. He added that Prophet Muhammad has said that Allah watches the actions of the men when they have the ‘power over the women.’ In a shocking display of vicious indoctrination, Ally claimed, “The women are with them like slaves.”
Shabir Ally explains the significance of sex slaves’ in Islam
In another snippet of the same video, the Islamic preacher talked about the Islamic view on concubines (mistresses). He said, “A Muslim man can have up to four wives at once, in addition to the four wives, he can have an unlimited number of concubines which basically refers to women with slave status.”
“A woman-owned by her master has to freely give herself to the master. The master has the right to have sexual relations with her as though she were one of his wives,” he continued. When the show host Aisha Khaja asked Ally about the role of ‘consent’, the Islamic scholar dismissed it altogether.
He said, “The understanding is that by virtue of the fact that she’s owned, she does not have the right to consent or to withhold herself from her master.” Shabir Ally emphasised, “The master has the full right over her and her consent does not play anything in this relationship.”
Shabir Ally explains the rationale behind ISIS sex slaves
Towards the end of the video, Shabir Ally opined that several ‘respected’ Islamic scholars believe in the 21st century that the tradition of ‘sex slavery’ should have continued and it is a ‘divine’ right. “Theoretically, it is still applicable and they state so in clear terms. If there is a war between Muslims and non-Muslims today and the Muslims capture the non-Muslim women, then they will be made slaves. And the men will have the right to sexual congress with them.”…
Buraq says
Shabby Shabir ………… ! Clown!
RichardL says
very evil looking clown. islam has been created by and for sickos and only their brutality has kept it alive.
AnnChristine says
Why the hell do we welcome these evil barbarians into our Western lives?——-Our leaders are abnormal allowing Islam into The West !
Haviette says
In 1952, the ban against Muslim immigrants was lifted. In this political climate, it would be very difficult to reinstate it. I hope soon we will, though.
gravenimage says
This was not exactly a ban on Muslim immigrants, but it *did* ask immigrants if they planned on practicing bigamy, and excluding them if they assented.
Keith O says
AnnChristine,
These cretins are welcomed into our countries by our corrupt political masters.
They are brought in because they are allowed to vote, which means that the politician who kisses their arses gets their vote and stays in his cushy high paid job, until they have enough Mudslimes to vote one of themselves into power and by that stage it is far too late for our society.
Mauricio says
For just a second I was tempted to become a muslim: western women are so difficult to deal with sometimes!
gravenimage says
If you love rape and sex slavery, Islam is your creed!
European pagan says
I will never understand why women convert to this religion. But I can understand why muslim-born women leave Islam.
E T says
SHHHHH M-103,the motion introduced by Muslim member of parliament, Iqra Khalid, and supported by ALL the NDP and ALL the Liberals, does not allow anyone to criticize this barbarian. OMG, I forgot Justine Trudeau says Canadians are not ALLOWED to say barbarians.
Peoplekind in Canada are complaining about wearing masks, wait until they find out what they will be mandated to wear next by the barbarians.
I am so tired of stupid people.
E T says
I will never understand why politicians don’t just stand and say “Elect me, I don’t give a shit about you, I just want the power and the money, but I am honest”.
E T says
When we in the West have a sick puppy, we take it to the vet. When we in the West have an old sick dog, we have it put down.
Islam does not allow a person to have a pet dog, but it does allow filthy, old, so-called learned men to tell the followers it is OK to rape a non-Muslim, have sex with very young children, muta marriage ……………the religion of oppression and sex.
Walter Sieruk says
As for the Islamic world of female sex slaves, both girls and women, this brutal and callous affront, against all the is decent, good and right, started very early in the history of Islam with founder and prophet of Islam, Muhammad.
As revealed in the book THE HISTORY OF JIHAD FROM MUHAMMAD TO ISIS by Robert Spencer. For after one of the early war victories of the followers of that specific time, the new religion of Islam, Muhammad received convenient revelation that his Muslim warriors have every right to own and use their female war captives. As page 32 of Mr. Spencer’s book reads “The Qur’an permitted them to have sexual intercourse with slaves girls captured in battle- ‘those captives whom your right hand possess.’ [4:24]” This book further explains and exposes on the exact same page that “The enslavement and rape women were taken for granted.” This Islamic wickedness of misogyny continued and still continues through time. As other scholars and authors on Islam do further expose that this horrific treatment of women into sexual slavery by their own families. Women are not viewed and equals in Islamic countries, they are thought of as property” and the “selling women and girls for prostitution is just the dehumanizing complement to forcing women and girls to cover their bodies and hair with veil.” [1]
Likewise, a former Muslim who is now a Christian also revealed information about Islam and females sex slaves. For is exposed that “Slavery is cherished in the Qu ‘ran and non -Muslim girls and women are used a sex slaves. Also there is no protection for women in Islam; they are exposed to every kind of abuse on one hand, but on the other hand they are responsible for the temptation which afflicts men.” [2]
Wow, all this cruel Islamic misogyny and not regard for human rights has its origin in the founder prophet of Islam, Muhammad. As shown by two Christian writers who in their book inform the reader that “Muhammad endorsed enslavement of all types…he endorsed sex –slavery as a gift from Allah, and enjoyed offering sex slaves as gifts…” So since Muhammad is view by Muslim as the perfect man and a great example it’s not surprise that, in time, Islam is enslaved more people than any other culture.” [3]
[1] THEY MUST BE STOPPED by Brigitte Gabriel, pages 181,182.
[2] ISLAM AND THE SON OF GOD by Daniel Shayesteh , page 128
[3] JESUS AND THE JIHADIS by Craig A. Evens and Jeremiah J. Johnston, pages 124, 125
Wellington says
Sick stuff. But how so very Islamic.
I don’t see anyway of avoiding the conclusion that Islam is simply evil. Its provisions for rape in general, including marital rape, along with its requirement that a Muslim must be killed who leaves Islam (to be found, among other places, in the Koran, Sura 4:89), these two aspects of Islam alone make it iniquitous,
When you add to this all the other heinous provisions of Islam, such as severe bodily harm or death for criticizing Mohammed or the Koran, as well as the requirement to wage war against humanity “until all religion is with Allah” (Sura 8:39), the total tonnage of hateful directives in Islam can only lead a sensible and informed person to conclude that Islam is malevolent to its core.
J Morgan says
+1
gravenimage says
All grimly true.
Michael Copeland says
A man may marry four wives at a time,
And divorce them simply by quoting a rhyme.
A wife is a chattel to buy, beat, and use,
Obliged to submit, not allowed to refuse.
https://gatesofvienna.net/2020/04/easy-guide-to-sharia-law/
Michael Copeland says
“It is permissible to take concubines” – islamqa.com
https://gatesofvienna.net/2020/02/islams-agenda-muslims-speak/
Mauricio says
Thanks for your contributions Mr. Copeland.
gravenimage says
Good posts, Michael.
And Islam Q&A is the most visited English-language Muslim site
OTTER says
Did you notice the role of the female? Behaving as if this was a perfectly normal subject? And how is it that white females, who are supposedly feminists, find all this fine?
Is it because white men have stopped abusing and controlling them and making them into sexual slaves, which is what they secretly desire? Surely, we must remember that ‘evolution explains everything.’
I am beginning to think that deep down Islam serves women’s deep desires to be used, abused and objectified. How else can you explain so many Muslim women choose to remain Muslim? How else do you explain the increasing conversions of white women to Islam? The success of Islam with women must be explained, if we are to break it.
Kudos to the brave ones who break free from its viral grip though.
Mauricio says
Interesting.
Michael Copeland says
The interviewer is Shabir Ali’s daughter.
Michael Copeland says
The interviewer is Shabir Ali’s daughter.
Stop Kafirophobia says
Actually, this is Aisha Khaja, the previous host on that show back in 2016. It is the current host, Saffiyah Ally, who is Shabir Ally’s daughter.
Wellington says
It’s also possible, OTTER, that women don’t want to be “used, abused and objectified” but that many men think they do. I know that women closest to me like my wife and sister ABSOLUTELY do not want to be used, abused and objectified. As they would say in West Virginia to your proposal, just pay that never no mind.
I am in agreement with you about Western feminists saying virtually nothing about the inherent misogyny in Islam. I ascribe this to Western feminists, almost without exception, being Leftist and Leftists detest Western Civilization so much that they will ally with beasts aplenty who do as well. In brief, Western feminists overwhelmingly are very foolish human beings. Many are well educated but education without common sense and wisdom is actually a negative in and of itself.
E T says
Thank you Wellington, you hit the nail on he head. Unfortunately, a lot of educated feminists have absolutely no education when it comes to Islam. They will tell you they know, but in fact they don’t know shit. If you think you are tired of all this utter nonsense…I am going for longer walks, avoiding stupid, “educated” people.
Now I am going to have a glass of wine and listen to some raunchy music, because I still live in a free country for now. Pease be upon you, under you and over you Bro.
James Lincoln says
E T says,
“Unfortunately, a lot of educated feminists have absolutely no education when it comes to Islam.”
Absolutely true.
For some strange reason, which I cannot understand, these “educated” feminists have never bothered to read the primary source islamic texts. But somehow, magically, they know the muslim apologists’ version of what is in them…
Wellington says
Agreed, E T, respecting Western Feminists’ understanding of Islam. Unfortunately, and just compounding the problem of well educated people who lack common sense and knowledge, these latter two deficiencies often disallow well educated fools aplenty from being truly well educated about iniquity, so intent are such well educated fools on studying such bogus subjects and majors as Gender Studies, Gay Studies, African-American Studies, Latin American Studies and, of course, that mother of all studies programs— such programs ALWAYS coming with an agenda which mitigate at arriving at the truth of matters—i.e., Women Studies.
Time for a beer. Which Muslims, if in charge of America, would deprive me of if only they could, damn control-freaks which they are.
gravenimage says
Excellent exchange.
James Lincoln says
Wellington says,
“Western feminists overwhelmingly are very foolish human beings. Many are well educated but education without common sense and wisdom is actually a negative in and of itself.”
That’s a keeper.
College – wrong school, wrong major, etc., – can certainly be a negative…
Makes me always think of this famous movie clip:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tI5at6tGdbQ
gravenimage says
Why is OTTER pretending that the daughter of a Jihadist is indicative of the views of all women?
This would be like pretending that Robert Spencer is just like Shabir Ally because they are both male.
Then, no–this child of Jihadist is not acting the good Muslim because civilized Infidels have stopped abusing women. How does this even make sense?
Then, OTTER has claimed before, based on absolutely nothing, that women actually *enjoy* being abused and used as sex slaves.
And where does evolution indicate that women enjoy being used as sex slaves? In fact, most female mammals have a large role in determining which males they will mate and bond with, so even this reductive claim is spurious.
But this should not surprise–one of OTTER’s main roles here is urging white men to control women, because this is how Muslim thugs treat women.
Most Muslim women are Muslim for the same reasons that Muslim men are–they were raised with this barbarism, believe they are superior to Infidels, and know that if they *do* try to leave Islam that they will likely be killed for it–we have seen this often enough.
Just because OTTER has sick fantasies about women does not mean that any of his claptrap makes sense.
OTTER says
We will still have to explain what women see in Islam. We may not like all the kinks and defects that evolution has put in us, but they will still exist. For example, almost all killers are men–am I arguing that’s right? No. But why are they so? This can be explained in evolutionary terms, and I think there is an evolutionary argument to explain women’s submissiveness in Islam. In psychological terms, Islam is pure genius and I am merely pointing it out.
Challenge to the JW community: What do women see in Islam and what causes white women to convert? Forget about our point of view, let’s try to explain it from them. I have no agenda except to understand the weak points of Islam and see if we can use them to undermine it.
James Lincoln says
OTTER says,
“What do women see in Islam and what causes white women to convert?”
For women in the Western world, that is a legitimate question…
J Morgan says
I have seen it is rebellion in some young women who convert to Islam. They wear the veil in the free society they inherited like a big F-U to her parents or somebody she is angry at.
Mary says
Muslim men can be charming. But once you are in their grasp there is no way out except death.
Wellington says
“What do women see in Islam and what causes white women to convert?”
Well, both stupidity and foolhardiness could be major causes. I’m not asserting that these are the only two causes but I can’t see how you can leave them out. Self-loathing could be another cause. So could something related to self-loathing—Stockholm Syndrome.
I would also point out that the vast majority of white women do not convert to Islam and this too must be taken into account.
gravenimage says
OTTER wrote:
We will still have to explain what women see in Islam.
……………………
First, it is notable that OTTER sees a Muslim touting marital rape and sex slavery, and his first thought is that this is–somehow–the fault of women. Actually, not even the Hijabbed Muslimah interviewing him sounds all that enthused.
More:
We may not like all the kinks and defects that evolution has put in us, but they will still exist.
……………………
Except that I pointed out that his claim that all women love being abused and treated as sex slaves is quite false, and that this is not backed up by mammalian behavior, either. You can regularly see that most female mammals have a significant role in choosing their own mates. When I was a child we had unspayed cats. When one of the females went into heat, two males one night had a knock-down, drag-out fight over her. Finally there was a victor, and the loser went slinking off. The victor swaggered over to our cat, and she hissed at him, smacked him in the nose, and ran away down the street. She didn’t accept him just because he drove another male off.
Sure, evolution plays a role in human behavior–but it is not nearly as reductive as OTTER here claims.
More:
For example, almost all killers are men–am I arguing that’s right? No. But why are they so? This can be explained in evolutionary terms, and I think there is an evolutionary argument to explain women’s submissiveness in Islam. In psychological terms, Islam is pure genius and I am merely pointing it out.
……………………
Why would women specifically victimized by Islam be different? Christianity, for example, urges men to love their wives–it doesn’t mention abusing them, beating them, or using then as sex slaves.
Can OTTER explain this? I doubt he will even try.
It is true that Infidel men and women do tend to have somewhat different reasons for converting to Islam (those who do, in any case). With men it tends to be violent felons in prison who are attracted to Islam, because it sacralizes their brutality. With women, it tends to be “love Jihad”, where Muslim men pretend to be ardent, respectful suitors until they get what they want–marriage, children, green cards, citizenship–and only then do they expose how vicious they really are. But why would this even be necessary if women really wanted to be abused and raped as OTTER claims?
Then, there are men *and* women who either consider Islam “exotic” or who want to wage violent Jihad.
Besides which, most Infidels are not flocking to Islam anyway, as OTTER implies.
More:
Challenge to the JW community: What do women see in Islam and what causes white women to convert? Forget about our point of view, let’s try to explain it from them. I have no agenda except to understand the weak points of Islam and see if we can use them to undermine it.
……………………
I see that OTTER has gone back to his trope about white women again. For one thing, here in the US most Infidels–male or female–who convert to Islam are Black Muslims, not white women.
Certainly, white women–or anyone–converting to Islam is a concerning issue. But OTTER’s claim that it is the main issue, on a story that does not have white women or converts of any kind in it is just bizarre.
But his constant trope here is that white men have to control white women, and he will bang on about this whether or not it fits the story in the least. Ugly, ugly stuff.
Mauricio says
Gravenimage why are you being so hard with Otter? I think he has some good points after all. I personally know more white women than men that defend and even promote Islam. In the following video you can see that women are the ones that attack Ms. Geller more seriously in the end; men mostly babbling and making fun of her:
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=5_OI0WhbSjo&t=1s
A lot of women are proven not being able to really express what they want or desire. You ask them: describe your dreamed man? And then, describe your current partner? And you get 2 contradicting answers.
gravenimage says
Mauricio wrote:
Gravenimage why are you being so hard with Otter?
………………………
OTTER has said over and over again that white men need to control white women, and that this involves rape, forced marriage, sex slavery, and preventing them from working, voting, and getting an education.
I oppose these horrors from Muslims; the idea that I should accept them from someone posing as an Anti-Jihadist is just as abhorrent–perhaps more so, in fact.
The free West *rejects* this barbarism–that you do not either means that you have not understood what OTTER is calling for, or it means something much worse.
More:
I think he has some good points after all. I personally know more white women than men that defend and even promote Islam. In the following video you can see that women are the ones that attack Ms. Geller more seriously in the end; men mostly babbling and making fun of her:
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=5_OI0WhbSjo&t=1s
………………………
The implication that the stalwart Pamela Geller is advocating that men control women is *utterly* false. When has she *ever* said any such thing? Citations, please. Not that I’ll be holding my breath…
More:
A lot of women are proven not being able to really express what they want or desire. You ask them: describe your dreamed (sic) man? And then, describe your current partner? And you get 2 contradicting answers.
………………………
This idea that if some women’s partners do not exactly match their “dreamed man” that they should ergo be forced to marry whoever those like OTTER think fit–or just used as sex slaves–is really twisted.
Have you also asked men if their wives or girlfriends exactly match their dream girl in all cases? My guess is probably not. You might also ask people about their dream careers, dream physiques, dream homes, dream vacations, etc etc–many people’s lives do not live up to their dreams–at least not on all points.
Does that mean that these men should also be enslaved? I *hope* you don’t think this way.
My husband is actually pretty close to my dream man, and I love him dearly. We have a true loving partnership, and have been together over thirty years now. But if I occasionally wish he’d bring me flowers more often or shared some of my more esoteric interests (some of them are pretty obscure) then this somehow means that I deserve to be instead used as a sex slave is just sick.
If you really think like this, then Islam is the creed for you. Why don’t you just convert now?
Mauricio says
Gravenimage: Oh, you’re a woman… That explains it. I am not sure if my English is terrible or if you don’t know how to read but you misunderstood most of my message. I do not support sex slavery or rape. I know Pamela Geller do not support that neither. As for the rest, go back and read my message if you like. I guess that the old Arab proverb is correct for you: “ask a woman for advice and do the opposite”.
gravenimage says
Mauricio wrote:
Gravenimage: Oh, you’re a woman… That explains it.
……………………………
The idea that it is only women who oppose marital rape and sex slavery is *quite* false.
Wellington also countered the claim that women want to be “used, abused and objectified”–yet he is not a woman himself.
Moreover, Robert Spencer, who wrote the article above, is not female either–yet he opposes these horrors. Can Mauricio explain this? I doubt it.
In fact, I oppose Muslim savagery against men, women, girls, and boys–the idea that one can only have a problem with this barbarism is they are of the same gender is of course grotesque calumny, and obviously untrue.
More:
I am not sure if my English is terrible or if you don’t know how to read but you misunderstood most of my message. I do not support sex slavery or rape.
……………………………
Mauricio asked why I was being “so hard with OTTER”, who does indeed advocate just these atrocities.
More:
I know Pamela Geller do not support that neither. As for the rest, go back and read my message if you like. I guess that the old Arab proverb is correct for you: “ask a woman for advice and do the opposite”.
……………………………
So now Mauricio is approvingly quoting a Muslim saying about dismissing women.
Does he think that because I–and Pamela Geller–oppose the systematic abuse of women in Islam that this is grounds for embracing it? God knows…
On another thread, Mauricio here is saying that cartoonists should be fired for daring to “blaspheme” against the “Prophet” Muhammed (although he doesn’t go so far as to think they should be murdered–he must be a “moderate”):
Mauricio says
Sep 3, 2020 at 1:05 pm
I would have wished Charlie Hebdo’s cartoonists to have been fired instead of having been shot to death.
https://www.jihadwatch.org/2020/09/charlie-hebdo-republishes-muhammad-cartoons-as-trial-of-muslims-who-murdered-because-of-them-begins#comment-2270744
Why is Mauricio even here? It does not appear to be because he actually stands against Jihad and Shari’ah.
gravenimage says
Canada: Muslim cleric says Islam allows marital rape and sex slavery
……………………….
Shabir Ally reveals the savagery of Islam.
Vladimir says
This is the future of the West that people can look forwards to if they are weak on Islam now.
infidel says
How did this mad creature succeed in entering Canada?
E T says
“How did this this mad creature succeed in entering Canada”? Justine Trudeau
Justine has told us that Canada is now a post-national state and our previously accepted value system based on our European history and ancestry is now over. We have no core values, we must accept a “pan-cultural heritage”.
Tom Quiggin : “Unless this slide into accepting the values of the dark past and the ideology of the Islamists is corrected, the Government of Canada will continue on one path – – SUBMISSION.”
Vladtepes is under attack, GatesofVinenna, and anyone who is promoting the truth. The book “Deleted” is coming out soon, and I can not help but wonder when there will be a complete shut down by the madmen running the internet. Stay tuned for as long as “they” will allow you.
gravenimage says
Yes–freedom of speech is under attack on many fronts.
SHABIR ALLY says
Dear Mr. Robert Spencer,
As I could not easily find a way to email you directly, I am posting the following letter here.
Re: Your article: https://www.jihadwatch.org/2020/09/canada-muslim-cleric-says-islam-allows-marital-rape-and-sex-slavery in which you cite: https://www.opindia.com/2020/08/canada-islamic-scholar-shabir-ally-justify-marital-rape-sex-slavery-video-interview/
Your citation of the OpIndia article ends abruptly just before the part where the article shows that I denounce ISIS. By leaving out that crucial part, which you replaced with an ellipsis, you have misrepresented the article.
Moreover, the article itself misrepresents me. What the article cites as my views are really my articulation of the views of other Muslim scholars, the types of views that ISIS is following, and which I denounce, as I made clear especially near the end of the video linked in the article and can be seen here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WjHB7DZke_c.
Thus, your presentation of my views in your article is a compound misrepresentation. I ask you to make the necessary amends for your misrepresentation.
As for debating, I was also disappointed when the organizers called off the Toronto debate. Since that time, I have debated many Christians in university campuses in the USA. Usually, it is the Christians who suggest whom they want to represent them, and I usually accept. I do not recall that anyone presented you as their representative, or I would have delightfully accepted. Likewise, I was not aware that you expressed a continued willingness to debate me. When did you express this? Where?
Nonetheless, now that I know of your willingness to debate, I propose that there are many things that Muslims and Christians can learn from friendly academic-style debates and dialogues. In this spirit, I suggest that we have a series of debates or dialogues on the questions that separate our two faiths. You have outlined some of the most significant differences in your book Not Peace but a Sword, pp. 239-42. The first and foremost difference, as you rightly stated, is whether God is One or Three Persons. Let’s start with that.
If you agree to my proposed debate, I can get someone to set things up for us to do this online, which will be the best way for us and our audiences to remain safe of Covid-19.
Please indicate your earliest available date for this. I am eager to get started. Meanwhile, may God bless you and all your loved ones with the best of this life and the hereafter.
Sincerely,
Shabir Ally
Robert Spencer says
Dear Mr. Ally: I didn’t misrepresent your views in the slightest degree. I didn’t include the material about ISIS because it wasn’t pertinent to what I was writing about. I made no claims about you and ISIS. As for being willing to debate you, I told the Toronto organizers I was willing to reschedule after they canceled. I told several people who represented themselves as your representatives on Twitter. I told Nadir Ahmed, who likewise represented himself as tied to you and told me he was going to convey my willingness to you and then get back to me. Of course he never did. Then more recently I spoke of all this in a video discussion with David Wood. After all that, your claim that you didn’t know I was willing to debate and couldn’t find the “Contact Us” button is as absurd as your claim that I misrepresented you. And so my question to you now is, why should I take the trouble to debate someone who is manifestly dishonest?
Cordially
Robert Spencer
Robert Spencer says
Also, Mr. Ally, since I wrote this above I recalled that I conveyed to you my willingness to debate in direct emails to you at the time, to which you responded. For you to claim now that you were unaware of this is extraordinarily dishonest.
Anyway, your attempts to intimidate via false claims and demands for corrections of statements I never made are the only really interesting element of this. Intimidation is a favored tactic of Islamic apologists (and other Muslim spokesmen as well). Without it, Mr. Ally, what would you have?
RS
marc says
In huge letters “Contact Us” on the right side bar, for your convenience you can click https://www.jihadwatch.org/contact-us
This goes directly to Mr Spencer.
But of course you can post your response here and share with all.