I don't get why every one thinks jihad is a bad thing? it's ok to go on a crusade but it's not ok to have a jihad!!!!! They are the same thing to me. I think it's just wrong to assume things on what people say. a religion cannot be bad, it is the people that follow the religion that can be bad. and i don't think that you have a right to post something based on what someone says because it's just a person, one person cannot represent the whole majority. and if you did find one ayat in the quran that says something about jihad, i would like to see how many ayats can be found mentioning peace in islam.

No religion can be bad, Gina? Why not? How about religions that practice human sacrifice? Are you down with that, too, girl?

Gina...have you noticed that in Islam as taught, preached, and practised by the fundamentalists (and the "Moderates") there is a tendency for violence to trump peace and goodwill to all men? I've noticed it. Whereas we see plenty of Islamic suicide bombers we NEVER see suicide bombers from sects such as the Amish, the Quakers, the Baptists, the Methodists, the Penecostals, or the Jews. You say you detect no difference in jihad from the crusades? In this day and age I see "jihad" taking the offense and the "crusade" to be defensive. Defending Western Civilization actually. This war will last several generations for the simple fact that Islam teaches its followers to hate the Jews and Christians. Unless Islam puts a stop to that the war will continue. Jews and Christians are taught to tolerate other religions. The same cannot be said for Islam. It remains to be seen whether the West has the will to survive the Islamic onslaught. I'm hopeful.

If a religion promotes a supremacist ideology -- i.e. its followers are better than non-believers -- and supports either the killing of or oppression of non-believers, then yes, it is a bad religion.

That Islamic Bomb (as the Pakistanis refer to the Nuke) is meant first for India.

Therefore, the west can relax and enjoy the scene of India going down in those mushroom clouds.

India has been howling at the top of its voice for decades; (and *some* visionaries of the west too) about the dangers of Islamic Fundamentalist Ideology of Jihad. But then, the west was obssessed with its fight against the evil Communist empire, while India fought and has been fighting this war against Jihad ever since.

Jaqan: Your points are well taken. I believe the West (at least those nations of the West that still matter) will stand shoulder to shoulder with India. Better late then never.

Mark,
The problem with your view and that of others is that you seem to think of the Muslim world as a monolith. You rightly claim that there are several Christian sects that have never used suicide bombers, such as Amish, Quakers, etc. However you can say the same thing of Islamic sects: Sufis, Aghakhanis, Dawoodi Bohras, Qadianis, and many more. These sects, and many more, have never used suicide bombing, and preach tolerance as a fundamental principle.

The West must appreciate the reality that Muslims are represented by many diverse groups with values that differ from those of the Wahhabis. Lumping them all together will cause only more trouble, and will (and has) alienate those Muslims who are opposed to terrorism.

JC, I see in your comment some very encouraging thinking, and that is, not all Muslims are represented by the exact same set of values.

There is not a human being on the planet who can tolerate the feeling that he is immoral. Even a murderer makes excuses so that he doesn't have to experience the consequences (anguish, guilt, and self-doubt) of having acted immorally.

A "moral code" is a set of values chosen ("chosen" is the operative term) to guide us in our thoughts and actions. Whenever the basic value, the "standard of the good" chosen is LIFE consistent with human nature, then we have one kind of moral code. Since the fundamental difference between us and all other living creatures, the thing that defines us as human, is that we possess the power of REASON, then that is our fundamental, defining nature.

However, whenever the basic value chosen is something OTHER than life consistent with human nature, a very different moral code emerges.

Most major religions recognize, to one degree or another, that human life is the basic value on which a moral code is built. The moral code that emerges resembles to some degree or another the Golden Rule ("Do unto others as you would have them do unto you.") This is a rational way to think and act.

There are "good Muslims" who somewhere, deep down in their hearts and souls, sense that something is wrong with a moral code that demands that all human beings stop thinking, stop being rational, and in essence, stop being human.

The "good Muslims" are the ones who strike terror into the hearts of the ones who hate human nature and who hate reason, because the "good Muslims" will inevitably bring about change.

The bad people are the ones who have chosen a set of values and constructed a moral code that is designed to give them the moral authority to do whatever they want without feeling guilt, anguish, or self-doubt, even when their thoughts and actions are pure evil.

These are extracts from the Koran, tell me is that "PEACE".
1. Peaceful persuasion (This is the normal quotations used to pacify people, the usual 'no compulsion in religion' by apologists.)
1. Be patient and bear with those who deny the truth; God will deal with them...73:10, 11 (3)
2. 'To you is your religion, to me is mine'...109:1- 6 (8)
3. Be patient with the evil doers...38:15-17 (38)
4. Show patience to the pagans...20:130 (42)
5. Don't be in a haste to fight...19:83, 84 (44)
6. Be patient with the unbelievers (pagans); God's way will prevail...20:134, 135 (45)
7. Mohammad is not sent to dispose of people's affairs...17:54 (50)
8. God guides those whom He pleases; rewards will be in paradise...10:25, 26 (51)
9. God will call into account the pagans who slander the Qur’an...15:91-93 (54)
10. It is not God's job to see if people believe the truth or not...6:104 (55)
11. Turn away from those rejecting faith and proclaim peace on them...43:88, 89 (69)
12. Invite the unbelievers (pagans) with beautiful preaching and gracious arguments; be patient and do not retaliate...16:125, 126 (70)
13. Leave the unbelievers (pagans) alone...23:54 (74)
14. Repeal evil with good deeds...23:96 (74)
15. Leave the unbelievers alone and wait in patience for God to punish them...52:45, 47, 48 (76)
16. Mohammad is only a warner and not an enforcer...67:26 (77)

2. Fighting for defense
1. Permission to fight for self defense is granted...22:39-41 (105)
2. Rewards for Jihad is announced...22:58 (105)

3. Limited attack
1. Forgive and overlook the unbelieving Jews; God will take care of them...2:109 (87)
2. Fight defensively the Meccan pagans but if they cease hostility then stop fighting except for the oppressors...2:190-194 (87)
3. Fighting against the Meccan pagans is prescribed after the passing of the month of pilgrimage (Zulhaj)...2:216, 217 (87)
4. 'No compulsion in religion'; do not force the defeated enemy to embrace Islam; but they will be thrown in hell...2:256, 257 (87)
5. Spoils of war belongs to God and Mohammad...8:1 (88)
6. Strike terror in the hearts of the unbelievers; cut the necks and finger tips of those who oppose God and Mohammad...8:12, 13 (88)
7. When you meet, the unbelievers in hostility attack them and never turn back from them. If you retreat except for a strategic reason then God will punish you and will send you to hell...8:15-16 (88)
8. Keep on fighting until the persecution stops and Islam is established; one-fifth of booty belongs to God and Mohammad...8:39-41 (88)
9. Obey Mohammad, be united and persevere in fighting...8:45, 46 (88)
10. If you defeat the enemy then teach them with treachery and terror; if they ask for peace then give them peace...8:57-61 (88)
11. Rouse the believers to fight with perseverance, God will help by increasing your strength...8:65 (88)
12. Continue killing and do not take prisoners until the land is subdued then enjoy the war booty...8:67-69 (88)
13. Martyr's sins are blotted out and they go to paradise...3:157, 169-171, 195 (89)
14. Can take women captives as concubines in addition to wives...33:50 (90)
15. There is a great reward for fighting against the friends of Satan...4:74-78 (92)
16. Fight and rouse other believers to fight; God will restrain the fury of the unbelievers...4:84 (92)
17. Kill the hypocrites if they turn renegades...4:89 (92)
18. Higher grade for fighting for God...4:95, 96 (92)
19. Guaranteed reward for fighting in the cause of God...4:100 (92)
20. Whether a fighter kills or is killed, he is admitted in paradise to reside there permanently...22:58, 59 (103)
21. Struggle for God's cause...22:78 (103)
22. Can't lag behind in fighting for God...48:15-16 (111)
23. Muslims are compassionate with each other but are strong to fight against the unbelievers...48:29 (111)

4. Open aggression
1. Any religion other than Islam is not acceptable...3:85 (89)
2. Kill (execute by beheading)/crucify/torture who opposes Mohammad...5:33 (112)
3. Do not make friendship with the Jews and the Christians...5:51 (112)
4. After giving four months notice break all treaties with the pagans that they did not keep; those treaties with the pagans that they kept are to be honored to their full term; in future make no more peace treaties with the pagans and kill all pagans who do not accept Islam...9:1-6 (113)
5. Pagans who accept Islam are brothers of Muslims; those who break the agreement fight them...9:11, 12, 14, 15 (113)
6. Do not make friend or seek protection from the unbelievers (includes pagans, hypocrites, Jews and the Christians)...9:16 (113)
7. Unbelievers should not visit mosques or maintain the mosques of God; they will go to hell...9:17 (113)
8. Those who do Jihad are the highest in rank; they will dwell in paradise...9:19-22 (113)
9. The unbelievers are unclean, forbid them to enter Kaba...9:28 (113)
10. Fight against the Jews and the Christians until they are subdued and pay the Jizya tax with submission; God's curse is on them...9:29-31 (113)
11. If you do not fight in the cause of God with whatever you have got then God will punish you with a serious punishment...9:38, 39, 41 (113)
12. If you fight for God then expect either martyrdom or paradise. The unbelievers can expect only punishment from God...9:52 (113)
13. Those who are able to fight for God but do not do so are rejected by God...9:90-96 (113)
14. Whether you slay or slain in Jihad, God has promised paradise for giving all in the cause of God...9:111 (113)
15. Fight the unbelievers surrounding you...9:122 (113)

Is Phase 4 here to stay until the whole world is in turmoil ? Some of the most respected thinkers in Islamic history say that when you come upon these kinds of disagreements -- where you see peace in one place and violence in the other -- you have to go with what was revealed last, that cancels out what was revealed before, therefore Islam is not peaceful !

Khan is very aware of the strategic balance, but unfortunately is a follower of Waltzian nuclear theory that nukes could only ever be used in a defensive capacity. Naieve. (History has also proved Waltz wrong on other points ie the loss of nuclear material in the former USSR).

He will therefore be happy to give nukes to pretty much anyone. The Ghauri missiles developed by Khan are suspiciously similar to the Naudong Missiles of North Korea and he is known to have visited that country several times. What did they get in return for that design?

Morover, several decades ago he aided Iran in building their nuclear program. He is indeed a nuclear wildcard. Scary.

Although there are many peaceful sects in Islam, as well as in other religions, Islam is put forward to the world as a political, as well, as a religious movement.

In recent historical time, small (or relatively small) groups of determined armed insurgents have overcome the rest of their society to put into place their political philosophy. (Sometimes based on religion.) Examples are: Castro in Cuba, the Bolsheviks in Russia, Pol Pot in Cambodia, and the Facists in Spain, Italy, and Germany.

It may seem unfair to make this comparison. The comparison becomes fair when the religion also becomes a political movement. In fairness, the Crusades of almost a thousand years ago also became a political movement. You would hope that mankind would have learned by now.

I can almost hear the word processors begin to click to reprimand me because I "forgot" to mention the Zionist movement in Palestine and the counterweight of the Palestinian authority. Religion mixed politics is deadly affair. I pray for peace for us all.

Eleanor,
Yes, your comparisons are right. However you are confusing the term Islam with Islamism. 'Islam' is the religion revealed to the Prophet Mohammed through the Quran, its sacred text. Many people claim to represent Islam each of them with a different interpretation and understanding of the words of the Quran. While many try, no one has a monopoly of the term 'Islam'. The term 'Islamists', however, was coined by Western journalists and scholars and is used to describe specifically those Muslims (followers of Islam) who assert that Islam is not only a spiritual endeavour, but impinges on ever party of our lives: social, economic, etc.

This distinction is crucial. You have said that "Islam is put forward to the world as a political, as well, as a religious movement." The question to ask is who is "putting it forward"? Certainly not me. It is as I have described above, the Islamists, who are merely a subset of those who claim to be followers of Islam. And your comparisons of them are accurate. If you read their literature the Islamists do not compare their ideology with Christianity, or Buddhism. They compare their ideology with Marxism, Capitalism, Fascism, etc -- with other political systems. Actually many scholars have noted how their literature borrows heavily from Socialist ideology, with Arabized terminology.

The point to remember though is that it is the Islamist's interpretation only. We must appreciate that a significant section of Muslims believe that Islam is a purely spiritual pursuit. Robert Spencer is correct in saying that these 'moderate' Muslims have been on the retreat in recent years due to the rise of Islamism. However that is all the more reason to acknowledge and support peaceful Muslims.

Pakistan is the single most worrisome place on earth. There we have the deadly combination of a country with functional nuclear weapons and a very healthy base of islamic fundamentalism. Its (apparently) moderate leader escaped two attempts at his life in December. The remains of AlQueda (and possibly a live Oussama) hide in its mountains. If hell breaks loose in 2004, I predict it will start in Pakistan.

Nothing in Islam is a matter of "interpretation." It's all a matter of what is written for all the world to see in their current reference text.

Words aren't arbitrary. They have meaning. They aren't open to "interpretation."

If some Muslims want something other than what is contained in their present reference text, they will have to write a new one.

That's the only way they will be protected against "misinterpretation."

This is not a religion but a militia!

4.91] You will find others who desire that they should be safe from you and secure from their own people; as often as they are sent back to the mischief they get thrown into it headlong; therefore if they do not withdraw from you, and (do not) offer you peace and restrain their hands, then seize them and kill them wherever you find them; and against these We have given.you a clear authority.
[17.7] If you do good, you will do good for your own souls, and if you do evil, it shall be for them. So when the second promise came (We raised another people) that they may bring you to grief and that they may enter the mosque as they entered it the first time, and that they might destroy whatever they gained ascendancy over with utter destruction.
[17.16] And when We wish to destroy a town, We send Our commandment to the people of it who lead easy lives, but they transgress therein; thus the word proves true against it, so We destroy it with utter destruction.
[17.17] And how many of the generations did We destroy after Nuh! and your Lord is sufficient as Knowing and Seeing with regard to His servants' faults.
[17.58] And there is not a town but We will destroy it before the day of resurrection or chastise it with a severe chastisement; this is written in the Divine ordinance.
[17.103] So he desired to destroy them out of the earth, but We drowned him and those with him all together;

[25.36] Then We said: Go you both to the people who rejected Our communications; so We destroyed them with utter destruction.
[25.39] And to every one We gave examples and every one did We destroy with utter destruction.
[8.12] When your Lord revealed to the angels: I am with you, therefore make firm those who believe. I will cast terror into the hearts of those who disbelieve. Therefore strike off their heads and strike off every fingertip of them.

Koran 58:5
Those who resist Allah and His Messenger will be crumbled to dust, as were those before them: for we have already sent down Clear Signs and the Unbelievers will have a humiliating Penalty
Koran 44:43-50
Verily the Tree of Zaqqum will be the food of the sinful. Like molten brass it will boil in their insides, Like the boiling of scalding water Seize Ye Him and drag him into the midst of the blazing Fire Then pour over his head the penalty of Boiling Water
Koran 2:39
Those who reject faith (Islam) and belie our signs, They shall be Companions of the Fire and abide in it.
Koran 5:33
The Punishment for those who oppose Allah and his messenger is : Execution or Crucifixion or the cutting off of hands and feet from opposite sides or exile from the land
Koran 17:46-47
And we put coverings over their hearts and minds, lest they should understand the Koran, and we put deafness in their ears; when you commemorate your Lord (Allah) and Him alone in the Koran
Koran 9:5
"Then, when the sacred months have passed, slay the idolators wherever ye find them, and take them (captive), and besiege them and prepare for them each ambush. But if they repent and establish worship and pay the poor-due, then leave their way free. Lo! Allah is Forgiving, Merciful."
Koran 9:73
Prophet, make war on the unbelievers and the hypocrites and deal rigorously with them. Hell shall be their Home: an evil fate.
Koran 4:144
Believers, do not choose the unbelievers rather than the faithful as your friends. Would you give Allah a clear proof against yourselves ?
Koran 5:51
Believers, take neither Jews nor Christians for your friends. They are friends with one another. Whoever of you seeks their friendship shall become one of their number. Allah does not guide the wrong-doers.

Koran 40:67-40:73
Do you not see how those who dispute the revelation of God turn away from the right path ? Those who have denied the Book and the message We sent through Our apostles shall realize the truth hereafter: when, with chains and shackles round their necks, they shall be dragged through scalding water and then burnt in the fire of Hell.
9:29: “Fight against those who (1) believe not in Allâh, (2) nor in the Last Day, (3) nor forbid that which has been forbidden by Allâh and His Messenger (4) and those who acknowledge not Islam as the religion of truth among the people of the Scripture, until they pay the Jizyah [religious tax] with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued.”
Quran 9:88 “The Messenger and those who believe with him, strive hard and fight with their wealth and lives in Allah’s Cause.”