We've done our part to avoid this being called a Holy War...However, the Muslims have turned this into just that. Or at the very least, given their mindless followers the impression that it is.

More innocents were killed yesterday in Israel. Does anyone agree with me when I say that I feel like I'm outside and I'm slowly being surrounded by a swarm of bees? A swarm that is somehow using our constitution against us to continue entering our backyard to do us harm?

Has anyone heard any form of discussions from our presidential candidates regarding immigration? It appears to have been lost in the mix...and we can't afford to let that happen.

The U.S. Border Patrol near Arizona is being trained to use Anti-terror tactics when dealing with the immigrants, illegal immigrants that attempt to sneak over here.

Here's a good one for all of us....The Palestinians are going to have a court, I believe the International court, hear their plea to make Israel take down the security fence. Israel asked the court if the families of the bombing victims could make their statements to the International court, and the court said no.

Yet, Islamists are going to be permitted to speak at the same hearing. I personally am in no way sympathetic to these radical pigs, and I have no regard for their rights, as they abuse their rights by the minute, while ignoring everyone else's.

Global Jihad, with home made bombs? Against the world's arsenal? Why should these bastards even be afforded the opportunity to be an issue?

D.C.

Let me get some coffee in me.. then I will be ready to catch up.

The World Court in the Hague is dhimmiland!
jihan

So what will happen? Israelis take the fence down?
So the Radicals can kill more innocent people? Why is it that everyone is catering to these hogs?

If ruled against, Israel should continue building anyway.

On the issue of the fence
Americans constantly talk about a poor israel being bombed, but turns a blind eye to the death of palestineans. Ill first give the figures of palestinean civilian deathtoll of 2003, 651 dead in total. Thats almost 2 people a day, yet when 8 people are killed in israel, the pictures are played over and over again, and the jihadist are condemned, deemed to being evil. Why was there no mention of the israeli incursions that left 12 dead the other day, on the scale of the coverage of the latest suicide bombing? Why arnt sattelite pictures of jenin after the 2002 israeli incursions everywhere, why arnt death tolls in palestine, slowly exeeding 9/11, publisised. Whats with all the concern about Jihad if you cant lay down your arms first. Who gave israel All its weapons that left 2800 palestineans dead since 2000? Who gave israel all the weapons that left 80% of the palestinean working force unemployed? Who gives israel exclusive protection from any international court of justice, or United nations organizations. Whyd America stop the investigation into Jenin at the aftermath of the israeli mass bulldozing and killings. Then the same people condemn a bombing or two? I dont condone the attacks puerly from my Islamic prespective (contrary to Robert's belief that Islam permits and that, he quotes what supports his opinion, and silences the rest) but i wont condemn it, because israel engages in the same warfare tactics ( only difference is israel has one of the worlds top advanced militaries, palestineans dont have ammunition, let alone weapons) Who supports Israels imprisonment of a nation of 4-5 million? Everything that the Palestineans suffer goes down to America. Robert, you talk about the evils of Jihad, how people use it so that they can enforce Sharia Rule on the west, if you look at it parralel to What America does, it dosnt take much though to see whos worse. Americans take their Ideals as a justification to go to war with other countries (Iraq, aphganistan) and to pressurise others ( Iran, Saudi) so that they can adopt systems according to the likes of the Americans, thats pretty much what Osama and whats left of his followers are doing. Osama killed 3000, america killed several hundred thousand. Countries that do not have freedom, but a system that serves the American interest are supported, and there dictators are supported in keeping their citizens in a state of fear (Egypt? Thats 2 billion$ a year to husni, Jordan? The contracts that bring 40 million a month? Both are notoriuous for torture, seeming Ignored in your media) Yet countries that have Non liberal democratic freedoms (you can actually vote and protest in iran without being sent to a torture room) have become evil countries that must be brought freedom!
I read the Hizballah article, it seems that it annoys you that they make games that glorifies Jihad against israel, and your news cutout pointed out that the boy specifically targeted Ariel sharon ( Responsible for sabra and shatila massacares where 1700 people in one refugee camp were all slaughtered) and Mofaz ( Head of IDF held many positions in the lebanese war 1982-2000 and currently) So whats wrong with pumping bullets into the heads of murderes? Personaly i give my congratulations to hizballah ( A group that made it clear it opposes killing civilians) on making such games. How many condemned Americans when they made games in which Communists, arabs were the targets ( Operation Flashpoint, Desert Storm)? No one, its puerly a game. I doubt it will have any impact on the players, the enemy in the muslims mind is clear, Israel is a sworn enemy. America remains the oppressor to be dealt with. (how many people come out of playing one of the games i mentioned, shouting death to the russians?)
On the topic of the wall, first in 1948 we had the huge influx of jews from europe who stole large areas of palestine using the justification of passages from the torah (No israeli to date can trace his geneology back to the true jews of Palestine). Then in 1948 the war (where every arab country had its own interests, for example jordan took the west bank and slaughtered palestineans, the egyptians took the gaza strip) The the 1956 (War was declared by France Britain and israel on egypt, ended with the humiliation of all three when the UN had them pull out) The 1967(Israel launches a premptive strike on egypt and syria) At this point Israel took Large portions of palestiean land, more people were pushed into refugee camps. 1973 war initiated by egypt, 1978 peace was made between the two. In every war palestineans were neither the initiators, nor the ones to fight the war, yet every time they suffered. Each time they lost more land. The lost any sign of independance in the 1967 war, were the israelie occupied ever since. In the process israel began building setlments one by one grabbing more land. Today the say there building a fence that will keep out terrorists (ironically you see palestineans freely jumping over them) the wall grabs large segment of lands from the palestineans, and leaves thousands displaced. There was never any mention on listening to hearings of islamists. And neither will there be on jewish families. There is no defence for the wall, it only makes life harder for the palestineans, the innocent ones.

To Ahmad... What do you want to be when you blow up?

Ahmad, I read your post. It appears that you are no dummy. You're writing displays high intelligence. However, the deaths of the Palestinians come from retaliation, and not unprovoked attacks.

Osama, Usama, or whatever this boney bag of shit calls himself, will be captured or killed. The Middle East nations aren't free because of Dictators like Hussein, and his two rotting corpses for sons. Bulldozing homes of homicide bombers is certainly justified. And as I've said before, If Islamists don't want to be stereotyped, then they should get off their asses and stop the terrorist groups.

All of these words are meaningless, until that happens. Our Government is busting asses every day of people that are funnelling money to these networks. Groups that pose as charitable or civil right organizations for Muslims.

The greatest trick the devil ever played was convincing the world he didn't exist. Unfortunately, the actions of Muslims, and again the bombers are Muslims, speak far louder than words. The Qu'ran, the bombings, the threats, and the cave rats hiding from American troops, are proof that Muslims are responsible for these attacks, and moderate Muslims do nothing to stop them. All we hear is talk talk talk talk talk from Muslims here.

But really, justify it how you wish in your own mind. Death to Jihadists everywhere, it's all they understand.

the methods of the intifada can be best understood as generally a war where the israelis target palestinian militants and palestinians target whoever gets in the way. for a graphic summary of the dead by combatant/civilian status, sex, age, etc., check out:

http://www.ict.org.il/articles/articledet.cfm?articleid=440

Dc-
You can say they resulted from retailiation, i can say likewise, but if one traces it to the start, it was the israelis who started, or there leader Ariel Sharon when he went to the Dome of the Rock (al aqsa mosque). After that the region slowly spiraled into attack and retaliate. Also looked at the death of palestineans, we find that in large periods palestineans die almost everyday, retaliation takes one blow, not a continuous one over several months. Anyhow i can not judge people whom i have not spoken with, it is in my personal belief that israel wishes to kick All palestineans out of palestine so that they may get there "promised land" back.
Wether or not Osama dies, i doubt it will have any effect. His death will get him sympathisers. We have dictators because they serve American interests, and so long as they do, they will remain our dictators. I am personally with a white revolution, but i think a Red revolution will be the one to get them out of power. I think on the side of the American we hear that they wish to promote peace and freedom, it to is al lot of talk, but the actions are far worse. Americans want to see an easy way in and out of everything. They want to continue supporting tyrants and dictators, to keep their military in our countries, to attack anyone who anoys them or their intersts. Yet one attack is enough to make all people from their enemies faith evil. I cant help but think its the American agenda which is evil. That may be disputed depending on who you belong to, your natural sence of right and wrong.
Ted, my god! I havnt seen such figures in my life. Its from an Israeli source, i suggest you check the Red Cross, or the assosiated press for the firgures i gave you. Also the israelis have repeatedly justified there attacks saying they killed only militants, palestineans otherwise, the wisest choice would be to look for a 3rd party unlikely to be biased. Also if they only targeted militants, then why have israels elite special forces sent a letter to sharon declaring they will no longer carry out attacks which they see immoral, in the past we saw the airmen, but now israels elite! Palestineans then again have no army, its obvious theyll chose targets that whatever weapon they can get hold of can be effictive against, i dont condone it, but i do not condemn it. People can do better by giving them a choice, certainly not peace in which they loose 50% of thw west bank, and aprox 25% of gaza strip! what sort of peace is that? Also in june 2000 Palesitneans and Israelies were finalising a peace deal, but sharon unsurprisingly tried the impossible to stop it, because he dosnt want an independant Palestine, what makes people think that the same person who stopped the peace, will start it?

Ahmad, you stated this: "Americans want to see an easy way in and out of everything. They want to continue supporting tyrants and dictators, to keep their military in our countries, to attack anyone who anoys them or their intersts. Yet one attack is enough to make all people from their enemies faith evil. I cant help but think its the American agenda which is evil. That may be disputed depending on who you belong to, your natural sence of right and wrong."

There hasn't been one attack. History lesson 101: 1972 Olympics, Beirut, Somalia, The USS Cole, The Embassy bombings in both Tanzania and Kenya, September 11, 2001. You know Ahmad, this is an issue of truth, so please, let's stay on course with that. Radicals, especially that cocky extortionist and embezzler Afafat, play victim, time and time again.

You know it, I know it, the Palestinians know it, and so does the rest of the planet. Unfortunately, the Palestinians, and Muslims in general, let foolish pride stand in their way to the extent of never admitting error, and refusing negotiations.

The Palestinians, who have been told that Arafat has stolen from them all these years will still support him, because if they rose against him they would be admitting their mistake of trusting him. Regarding a faith being blamed for the attacks. The Qu'ran is very clear on its agenda for Islamic domination, and you have no arguement on that. Additionally, do you believe that if any other faith would have committed the spinless, mindless, unscrupulous attacks on us that we wouldn't be looking at their faith as well? If they kill innocent people in the name of their religion, absolutely.

Radical Islam is the faction doing the mouth running, so are we truly to look at them as peaceful? They are the true racist bigots, Ahmad.

They are the ones declaring war on anyone who is not Islamic, and anyone who disagrees with them. Our military is in place because one, we do have interest in foreign lands, not to mention ridiculous amounts of money, that really should be used to feed and clothe Americans. And two, because many of the Middle Eastern nations aren't anywhere near up to date with regard to human rights.

Ahmad, you stated this: "Americans want to see an easy way in and out of everything. They want to continue supporting tyrants and dictators, to keep their military in our countries, to attack anyone who anoys them or their intersts. Yet one attack is enough to make all people from their enemies faith evil. I cant help but think its the American agenda which is evil. That may be disputed depending on who you belong to, your natural sence of right and wrong."

There hasn't been one attack. History lesson 101: 1972 Olympics, Beirut, Somalia, The USS Cole, The Embassy bombings in both Tanzania and Kenya, September 11, 2001. You know Ahmad, this is an issue of truth, so please, let's stay on course with that. Radicals, especially that cocky extortionist and embezzler Afafat, play victim, time and time again.

You know it, I know it, the Palestinians know it, and so does the rest of the planet. Unfortunately, the Palestinians, and Muslims in general, let foolish pride stand in their way to the extent of never admitting error, and refusing negotiations.

The Palestinians, who have been told that Arafat has stolen from them all these years will still support him, because if they rose against him they would be admitting their mistake of trusting him. Regarding a faith being blamed for the attacks. The Qu'ran is very clear on its agenda for Islamic domination, and you have no arguement on that. Additionally, do you believe that if any other faith would have committed the spinless, mindless, unscrupulous attacks on us that we wouldn't be looking at their faith as well? If they kill innocent people in the name of their religion, absolutely.

Radical Islam is the faction doing the mouth running, so are we truly to look at them as peaceful? They are the true racist bigots, as they want everyone to submit to Islam, or be killed, Ahmad.

They're the ones declaring war on anyone who is non-Islamic, and anyone who disagrees with them.
While "moderate Muslims, do nothing to stop them.
So, what are we to believe, that Islam is peaceful? When Americans pick up the paper, do they read of Islamists performing beneficial, charitable deeds? No sir. They read of death and destruction. They read of threats against them, sent from mountain caves on tapes made with 1970s model tape recorders.

Our military is in place in your countries because one, we do have interests in foreign lands, not to mention ridiculous amounts of money, that in my opinion should be used to feed and clothe Americans.

And two, because many of the Middle Eastern nations aren't anywhere near up to date with regard to human rights.

Ahmad, you stated this: "Americans want to see an easy way in and out of everything. They want to continue supporting tyrants and dictators, to keep their military in our countries, to attack anyone who anoys them or their intersts. Yet one attack is enough to make all people from their enemies faith evil. I cant help but think its the American agenda which is evil. That may be disputed depending on who you belong to, your natural sence of right and wrong."

My response to you is this: There hasn't been one attack. History lesson 101: 1972 Olympics, Beirut, Somalia, The USS Cole, The Embassy bombings in both Tanzania and Kenya, the Kobar Towers bombing in Saudi Arabia, and September 11, 2001. You know Ahmad, this is an issue of truth, so please, let's stay on course with that. Radicals, especially the arrogant extortionist and embezzler Afafat, play victim, time and time again.

You know it, I know it, the Palestinians know it, and the rest of the planet knows it. Unfortunately, the Palestinians, and Muslims in general, let foolish pride stand in their way to the extent of never admitting error, and refusing negotiations.

The Palestinians, who have been told that Arafat has stolen from them all these years will still support him, because if they rose against him they would be admitting their mistake of trusting him. Regarding a faith being blamed for the attacks. The Qu'ran is very clear on its agenda for Islamic domination, and you have no arguement on that. Additionally, do you believe that if members of any other faith would have committed the spinless, mindless, unscrupulous attacks on America that we wouldn't be looking at their faith as well? If they kill innocent people in the name of their religion, like the so called "Jihadis" do, absolutely.

Radical Islam is the faction doing the chattering, so are we truly to look at them as peaceful? They are the true racist bigots, as they want all non-Muslims converted to Islam, or killed, Ahmad.

They're the ones declaring war on anyone who is non-Islamic, and anyone who disagrees with them.
While "moderate Muslims, do nothing to stop them.
So, what are we to believe, that Islam is peaceful?

When Americans pick up the paper, do they read of Islamists performing beneficial, charitable deeds? No sir. They read of death and destruction. They read of threats against them, sent from mountain caves on tapes produced on 1970s model tape recorders.

Our military is in place in your countries because one, we do have interests in foreign lands, not to mention ridiculous amounts of money, that in my opinion should be used to feed, house and clothe Americans, not ungrateful foreigners.

Two, because many of the Middle Eastern nations aren't anywhere near up to date with regard to human rights. Unlike Middle Eastern countries, our media makes it a point to fully cover stories, so we don't just see what our Government says we can see. We've all witnessed the barbaric behavior of Middle Eastern Mullahs and dictators on their citizens.

America is my country, I have no trouble defending her, intellectually, or violently. The majority of America is fed up with the continued threats and with the term "Jihad". One sucker punch in September of 2001 does not a successful Holy War make.

If the radical jihadis insist on running around in their nightgowns bombing innocent people, and want to take their caveman approach to America, they've chosen the wrong nation to pick on. You said that Americans are evil. Well, when we're forced to protect ourselves and our families, we can be the most vicious people on earth. I think that would be a good thing for these slugs to remember. Despite the wishes of the terrorists and their brainwashed followers, the United States will never submit to any religious theocracy. Despite the efforts of deception and diversion by the scumbags at CAIR and other Muslim organizations, we will not fall.

By the way, why don't you give the great Muslim Civil Rights Organization, CAIR, a call. Ask Hooper or Iftikhar if Randall Royer, one of their buddies, recently sentenced to prison for his role in assisting terrorist activity, is just another victim of Islamaphobia.

D.C. Watson Ohio USA

for facts on palestenian and israeli deaths:

http://www.ict.org.il/articles/articledet.cfm?articleid=439

Dc-
As far as facts and figures go, here is a list of countries America has dropped bombs on.
China 1945-46, 1950-53; Korea 1950-53; Guatemala 1954, 1960, 1967-69; Indonesia 1958; Cuba 1959-61; Congo 1964; Peru 1965; Laos 1964-73; Vietnam 1961-73; Cambodia 1969-70; Lebanon 1983-84; Grenada 1983; Libya 1986, El Salvador 1980s; Nicaragua 1980s; Panama 1989; Iraq 1991 to present day; Somalia 1993; Bosnia (Republic of Srpska) 1995; Sudan 1998; Yugoslavia 1999; and Afghanistan 1998, 2001-02.(note, 8 are muslim)
Thats 22 countries that America launched campaigns on. Were we attacked first? certainly yes. The point being not only attacks, but oppression, the campaign we launched was one to free ourselves of oppression, and i have no problem with such a goal, i have one with the targets people choose. If you want to consider the killing of civilians, your sanctions of iraq left 1.5 million of them dead, including 600000 children. Your bombings in afganistan left 90000 civilians dead. Your support for Tyrants (egypt, saudi, jordan, pakistan, iraq in the past, iran in the past, israel) is the main source of regret amongst muslims. You complain that we attacked you first, even if that was true, look at the deaths on each side, several million on ours, a massively significantly smaller amount on your side, no more than 4000. And even with the attacks who has suffered? The families of those who died, on our side it is not only vast number of families, but the entire population. Muslims are sick of oppression, so long as America wishes to practice it, i support legal jihad. It is our rights under geneva. As far as pride has it, who refuses negotiations?! when the new palestinean president goes to israel pleading like a dog for nogociations, they do nothing but accuse him of not doing enough to stop terror (Ariel never budged a soldier out of its place) What about saddam hussien, an enemy if millions of muslims and iraqies , but America refused any form of negotiation, first it was threatining war because they refused inspectors, then because the inspectors werent getting any help, then because of empty chemical shells, it never wanted negociations, it wanted war, it wanted dead iraqies, it wanted oil.( And it supported the guy when he GASED iranians)
No one wants all non muslims killed or converted (i.e. and option between 2) No one is declaring war on anybody who disagrees with them. Tell me how many people declared war on hungaria? Belgium? China? Japan? Mexico? Brazil? South Africa? Chile? Are any of them muslim? And even the greater allies of America, all we have seen are cia reports warning that they may be attacked, we have not seen that. They attack America soely because it oppresses, they dont attack because they wish to convert or kill blindly. As far as converting goes, i challenge that you produce an example of people being forced to convert!
As far as arafat has it, ironically he's main enemies are Islamic Jihad and ez id deen il qasam movements, the ones killing israelies. Palestine is split within itself, between nationalists and muslims or "islamists" as you may put it. I personally have no problem condeming him, he has been, in my eye, an enemy for a long time. As have all leaders in the middle east. He ironically won the noble peace prize for his efforts to make peace, and the guy has no power over his the breakoff movements from fatah. There are conspirasies that say he finances, but no proof has been, thus far, shown(with group members denying links themselves).
The problem is not with islam being peacefull,its with America wanting peace, so long as there is no peace on the enemies land, and peace on its, its satisfied. The term "peacefull" would generally meen promoting peace. Certainly many verses within the quraan have ordered muslims to first incline to peace in the case of war, and if they agree then declare peace and stop war preperations. It also has conditions set out clear as to the conduct of war, and the circumstances under which it can be taken. There are verses that contain statements that may seem contrary (i.e. surah on the battle of badr) whereby it orders them no to stop battle untill the islam rises above them and there faith. The battle of badr is just one battle in islamic history, and the verses that relate to it do not apply for all circumstances. I have seen this chapters verses constantly taken as "proof" that islam has no intention of peace. But just look at our history, read how when Saladin captured jerusalem from the crusaders how he invited the jews back to the city, how he didnt kill one soul, how even the holy spelchur (dont know the name) was allowed to open 3 days latter, how he declined to peace with the crusades (though there was a bit of a disadvantage had he not) but the general treatment, the peace he gave the people cannot be matched by any other army in the past! Weve proven ourselves time and time again. If you truely look at islam as a whole in the light that you look at osama, then it would be justifiable that all muslims look at christians in the light of crusades. No, there are 1.6 billion of us, there are only a few engaged in the killing of civilians, as for those who fight honourably against armies, i make it public, i admire them , and pledge full support, i congratulate them for doing it in that fashion, i remind them that geneva and others recognise there right to resistance, and more importantly, god. How can anyone say that resistance is not justifyable?! How can anyone condemn the iraqies who fight the American invaders?! Its more than just logic, it is the basic rights of life that they defend.
If people wish to kill innocents, then i have nothing to do with them.
Just a note on the point of condemning Jihad, you wont find Muslims condemning some of the principles within islam, the struggle for faith. The stuggle with ones money (to educate himself as a muslim, and other muslims) to educate by tongue (spreading the message of what we see, the true religion of god) or fighting back when aggressed on. You will find a very wide condemnation of killing inocents in times of war. Look at the university of al azhar (one of the greatest islamic centers in the world) or the high concil in saudi arabia, or other organisations. Its very clear its very widely condemened, particularly by the more influential groups. As for jihad, then one who condemns it is automatically out of the fold of islam. We are on opposite sides, but i do not fail to recognise legal actions taken by other countries when attacked. Unfortunately Americans do.