Bulldozer......Mosque.......Bulldozer.......Mosque...level the mosques.......take a bite out of terrorist activity........How much of a gutless piece of camel dung does someone have to be to use religion as an excuse for the murder of innocents?

I'm sure a 1000 pound wrecking ball swinging into the side of, or dropping through the roof of a mosque would certainly hamper the preaching of hate currently being practiced in these death reception halls.

D.C.

DC,i agree with you 100% on this one.
The closing of the mosques in all western countries,would have more potent negative effect on islamic terrorism than one thousand tanks,airplanes,helicopters,bombs,you name it.
For it will rid the western world of muslims.....
They will not have to be deported,no sir,they would leave by their free will ,for they will need a place of worship.
I think this is the key action that would end the muslim invasion of the west and would send all of them back to their hellholes forever.

Careful Adela my dear, Joeyseph may be lurking....I think he has a crush on you....

You both have hit it right on the head. I honestly believe if you want to turn the tide of radical Islam you hit them where it hurts. That is always in the pocket book. Start closing the mosques in the west. Tell them either play nice or don't play at all. By closing the mosques you deny them the ability to collect the needed money to fund not only their social programs but their beloved Jihad! When moderates have no place to worship. Then the moderates will start screaming and action will be taken.

That's a very NIMBY idea. What do you think doing that will do to the non-muhammedans living outside the west. The Chaldeans in Iraq for instance. The Churches in Pakistan. Things will move from low grade hostility and sporadic violence to extermination.
The approach to Muhammedan's in the West should be one of honesty. Forget political correct evasions. Tell people the truth that if Muhammed was alive today, he would have to be arrested as a war criminal.

You may note I do not refer to Muhammedans as Moslems. Moslem is an acceptable phrase if you are one and believe yourself to be doing the right thing, as it roughly translates as one who submits to God's will. But for any non-Muhammedan, be he Christian, Jewish, Buddhist or atheist to call one of them a Moslem is nonsense semantically. Muhammedan, meaning a follower of Muhammeds teachings is correct and non judgemental to any logical mind. It also really annoys Muhammedans.

ahh.. see I was taking a non-combative roll today. I really just wanted to chill and not get into the fight. So much for trying to be nice. For the most part, if I had it my way. The mosques would be closed, and muslims would all be sent to france. But thats just me. France seems to love them..errr or at least their oil so much. Let them take them. Not sure how all those french woman would dig wearing a burka... but hey Im sure they could make it fashionable.

Actually, for the moment......France's Government has appeared to have grown a set of stones and outlawed the "Traditional Hijab" from schools....Maybe the arrogant French sissies are getting tired of the arrogant Muslim murderers like the rest of the world is.......

Where did hasmim/bedoe go? Won't anyone defend the jihadis?

I sure as hell won't.....Don't forget that idiot Reza, the warrior princess.....maybe he and Osama are neckin' in the caves....

Maybe they're planning which nightgown and towel to wear for their next bombing.....I know how we can beat the Jihadis......throw bars of soap at them....they'll run like hell.

D.C. DUB

Ha! Insanity is all I see! Delusions, delusions, delusions! Wake up! Even if Islam did not exist, terrorism would be here, because evil will always exist! Christian Missionary/Terror, you think it's non-existant? Go to any search engine and type "NLFT" and see what you get!

HEY.....THANKS FOR THE WARNING.....BEELZEBUB

Zyler, are you aware of the subject of this site? Islamic jihad. Try to stay on topic.

Adela:-
There are American muslims, i.e. of american origin. The vaster majority of muslims (residents) within US come from the US itself (Majority of African origin) There are 7 million.
I wont argue the idea of closing down mosques, its a political impossibility. 25% of forign investments in the US are Saudi (note, the rest of arabs have their share) Doing what you suggest will cause a economical crisis within the U.S. when the Saudis pull it all out (almost a trillion$) And that would achieve our goal, our freedom from the American capitalist system.
Nathan, rubbish! Ar-rahman, along with 90 other names of Allah are everywhere. There names, Allah means The god, ar-rahman, means the mercifull. Look at surat al-rahman, it came down in the late meccan period contrary to the rubbish you said. Muhammed was not influenced by anything, people claim it was the christians, jews, but i never saw it being the hijaz! And the first 40 ayah's? Note the first surah ever to be released is about 10 ayahs long. So then again another mistake. This story is purely fiction! One written in a hurry with no proper research!
Dc- Need it be reminded, the the last centuries 2nd greatest murderers were the Americans, this century there trying to beat the last ones record, already having killed hundreds of thousands. Look at the world?! the hate America far more than the muslims. Euroberometer classified ISRAEL as the worlds greatest threat to peace, with america only a few places behind, the world is not blind, its the Americans.
As far as "jihadies"have it, you challenged them to respond, i left no less than 8 challenges in previous threads, they apparently were not met!
As far as running, remember the scene of the american diplomats from the embassy in vietnam? That is called RUNNING!
Zyler, what who needs to look at missionaries, look at Iraq, Look at Palestine, Look at afganistan, look at the deaths and suffering caused by the modern day crusade (Note, bushs speech after 9/11 with the infamous "crusade" declared) Look at the 10s of oppressed countries as a result of there greed, who needs to look at missionaries, and the missionaries preach jihad in Iraq! Could that possibly be of shame, its their right under geneva convention, as far as hate preaching goes, the thing that preaches hatred is pictures of Americans bombing the hell out of cities, and civilian death figures as a result of their greed, we can proudly say that in any case, we fight for our freedom.
Basil, its debate, you attack somthing, Zyler reserves the right to retaliate, ridiculous,hes perfectly on topic!
Zyler- People who want to hate, will hate, people who want to like, will like, so as far as dillusions, its not them dissulisioned by what they read, its them dissilusioning themselves because inward hatred does not comprimise.

Make life easy. Tell 'em no mosques in the west unless every Muslim country allows the building of churches and proselytization by Christians.

Please Ahmad. Give us a direct answer to why helen's suggestion is not fair. It satisfies the human sense of natural justice. We allowed a mosque in Rome. Why not a Christian church in Mecca?
Just picture that Ahmad. A Christian Church in Mecca. Now picture a Synagogue next door.
What is it that mohommadans fear from the free choice of religion. The conclusions should be clear to all. It is the behaviour of an intellectually and morally bankrupt philosophy.

There's that moral relativism again for which islamic apologists are so famous. America was the penultimate "murderer" because we repelled the Germans and their allies in two world wars and won a bunch of smaller ones as well--and lost one too. But morally we are, in ahmad's twisted reasoning, no better than the fascists we defeated. Sorry ahmad, but nobody is buying that rug. As for what other's think of the US, I think you'll find that most Americans really don't care about that at all.

doug is right. americans fight to win (save the political fiasco of vietnam). if the jihadis stop assaulting civilization, the american hawks will return to their eyries. political philosophies kill people. americans defend freedom. communism killed 93 million civilians in the 20th century. fascism killed 50 million civilians and combatants during world war 2. if ahmed hates america so much, it is because he is misguided. america will not beg for his approval. he either sees the light, or he sees the dark. america offers freedom to choose your own path. always remember, salvation lies within.

Ahmad.....Regarding your comment that Americans do most of the murdering....We do our best to keep human rights preserved in the barbaric, stone age Middle East....

If we are so hated now, what would all of these pompus asses feel if we were stop all of the financial aid we dispurse to these countries that hate us......the more we help all of these ungrateful bastards, the more they hate us.

It wouldn't bother me, or my bank account if we only helped needy Americans. With all we do, for everyone around the world, and the treatment we receive for it. To hell with these dirthole countries. If what we do isn't good enough for these stiff necked jerkweeds, then I for one would be happy to pull the plug on their financial aid.

Mexico is included in this circlejerk as well. The great President Fox is harboring towelheads and is as crooked as a cotter key. But then again, Afafat is worse. Arafat is fortunate to have believers in him that are illiterate. The Palestinians wouldn't be so poor if Arafat wouldn't have duped them all these decades and stolen from them.

Additionally, there is no valid reason or excuse that the terrorist networks can try to apply that makes what they do legitimate or warranted.

Back to Americans being killers. When was the last time an American took a woman to a soccer game in the back of a pick up truck, put her on her knees in the middle of the field, and shot her in the head? What?.......When?........Exactly. Terrorists should also be made aware of your statement. We don't have a problem taking threats to our way of life right off the planet. And we will.

Ahmad, since you obviously have intelligence blessed upon you by God, would it oblige you to inform the Middle East that we are in the 21st century, and not the 1st?

The Jihad is going to crumble, falling short of its goal of world domination. This has already started with our troops kicking radical Islam's asses all over the desert. Not to mention the fact that the teenagers in Iran love the lifestyle of the west. They are the future of that country, and they hate the Mullahs.

D.C.

Way 2 go nathan!
hey Ahmed I wrote a response to your claim in the article titled "Taliban claim resposability for fatal attack...." that "and I'd like to make a note , muslims have not shoved islam down anyones throat"
I would be very interested in your reply. thankyou.

Thanks Nathan. I'm glad someone saw my post before it was taken down. Apparently what I propose is too radical and too violent, though Muslims can declare a religious war on non-Muslim nations, kill Chrtistians and Jews and attack the WTC and the Pentagon. Not to mention the killing and enslavement of non-muslims in the Sudan, Chechnia, Bosnia, Africa, Russia, China, and the Pacific rim nations. If we are at war (as President Bush has stated) what's wrong with saying what it will take to ultimately win the war? If every Muslim is allowed to be committed to Jihad (war) as one of the principles of their religion, why then aren't we allowed to voice our opinions on what it will take to put an end to such a war war? Oh well, so much for freedom of speech. While we're discusing the Koran, I'll call old Mo a prophet when anyone can show me any prophecy in the Koran. There is none. No prophecy = no prophet. (Or a false prophet.) Mohammed said the moon was his Lord (al-annam 77,
Yusuf Ali and Pickthal's translations). Mohammed contradicted Jesus, as Mohammed swore by the moon (Surah al-muddaththir 32) and Jesus said "swear neither by the Heavens, for they are God's throne, or by the earth, for it is his footstool...." (Matthew 5:34-35). Do God's prophets ever contradict each other? Also Mo and the early Muslims worshipped 3 female goddesses in addition to allah. (Surah 53:18-20). This is where the "Satanic verses" that Mr. Rushdie quoted came from. Did the God of the bible ever allow His followers to worship any "gods" other than Him? Did He ever allow his prophets to be seduced by Satan and include verses that He had not instructed them to say?

Hey, DC. Still no mention in the Saudi press about Arafat's secret (well, secret to most of the Arab world, apparently) multibillion dollar bank accounts.

Nathan, it's not just Iran. In Saudi Arabia, based on public figures, over the last 30 years or so, economic growth has averages 1.5% a year or so. Populatin growth has averaged something like 3% a year. Do the math. Diverging exponential curves curves are a bitch.

jay

Maybe that's what's going on.....the Islamists are trying to our breed us, so they've taken to inbreeding.....perhaps that's why the cave rats act the way they do.....theyy're sister kissers.

Maybe that's what's going on.....the Islamists are trying to out breed us, so they've taken to inbreeding.....perhaps that's why the cave rats act the way they do.....they're nothing but sister kissers. Do they kiss them.....breed, then kill them because they're women?

Nathan-
Im Arab, i lived in the arab world, i learnt Arabic since my early age, that includes grammer. The last thing i need is a person who knows not one word of Arabic to explain what "Allah"Means. But for the sake of others, i will proove you wrong, and id appreciate other arab speaking muslims to clarify this. "Al" is the arabic word that means "The", Ilah means "God". The Grammer behind arabic is not in anyway similar to English, it is however slightly similar to that of french in a number of ways (the placement of nouns and verbs, the order of such) "Ilah"could mean god, lets say "AL-Ilah" Which means "The god" Allah is the same, except it was joined ( in accordance with arabic grammer) into ALLAH instead of "al ilah" Both have exactly the same meaning, just different forms. The Arab christians too call god "ALLAH". For example when they wish to swear by god they too will say "wa allah" i.e. "By god!" or "in sha' Allah"i.e. "god willing". Let there be little doubt it means what i call it. As far as your story goes, there is no such story, i repeat it is false and made up. The story about the "moon"god is one i have seen quiete a few non muslims mention. Ill go over the verses you used to justify the rubbish you said.
"017.110 “Say: ‘Call Him Allah or call Him Ar-Rahman; whatever the name you call Him, all His names are beautiful.” “The name.” “His names.”
The best translation is pikthals
Say (unto mankind): Cry unto Allah, or cry unto the Beneficent, unto whichsoever ye cry (it is the same). His are the most beautiful names. And thou (Muhammad), be not loud-voiced in thy worship nor yet silent therein, but follow a way between.
What this is meant to say is that, by whichever one of his names (he has 99 names) it does not matter, because what matters is that you address him in prayer.
"Ilah" would be used in the case, lets say, "it is your lord who created you" would be the form of the sentence where ilah would be used. Ilah, Allah come from exactly the same root, its just 2 ways of saying the same word.
The qurann today is not in the order of revelation, any one studying the quraan knows that well. Just to proove you wrong, open the quraan you have, check either side of the book. It surat "Alaq" which was the first revealed surah on the beginning of either side, you make a fool of yourself trying to challenge a muslim who has an excelllent backround in quranic studies, al alaq, the first revealed surah is later in the book! The first surah on one side is an nas, on the other al fatiha ( the opening)!
It appears you simply copied and pasted somone elses comments. For one you have no knowledge that Allah has 99 other names, and is refered to them in no particular order. For example, al malik, al qudoos, al jabar, al kareem, la samee, al baseer etc... there are 99 names, as for the "al rahman" being only in the early meccan period, explain why EVER surah ( chapter) be it early meccan, or medinite, begins with "bismillah al rahman al raheem" You fool, do your own research before you try to disproove me.
Th "moon"god? There is absolutely no such basis. We, like the christians ( cross) and the jews (star of david) have a symbol, the cresent. Muslims, unlike jews and christians, do not hold such pride in a symbol. Christians upon arrival in a church, bow down before the cross, and do the holy trinity sign with their hands. Jews freqently wear it in all their jewlery, etc. Muslims used it as a means of identifying they belonged to the muslims, i.e. their banners, and it is used to decorate the roof tops of mosques, though you will rarely find it within the mosque, or in jewlery. It is meant to symbolise a number of things, the most important being the shape of the moon during which the quraan was revealed. The cresent holds no other true value.
The quraan makes no such mention of mohammed recognizing the meccans god, that is your way of interpretting it, it cannot be used to proove muslim belief if we ourselves dont believe in such rubbish! Allah is al rahman, is al qudoos, is al malik.
The meccans knew hundreds of god, Muhammed had rejected idolatry from his early age. He was an abrahamic, i.e. a follower of the abrahamic religion which remained to that day. He had beliefs parrallel to those of jews and christians, but rejected christianity due to the idea of jesus being god (read james the brother of jesus, as to how early church believed)
The first muslims, as the last, were called to take the decleration of faith "ashadu ana la ilaha il allah, wa muhammed abduhu was rassuluh" "I witness that there is no god but one (god) and that muhammed is his slave, and messenger" To be the slave of allah, is to be the slave of al rahman, early muslims were reffered to by names such as abdullah (slave of allah).
Hitlers massacures of jews were cloesly linked to his christian beliefs. In his mein kamph he mentioned time and time again the anger he flet at what the jews had done to jesus, and how they must be repaid. I have never read any article that any islamic backround was responcible for any of his beliefes. I leave you with 2 links
http://jews-for-allah.org/messianic-jews/christianhistorywithjews/hitler.htm
http://jews-for-allah.org/messianic-jews/christianhistorywithjews/speeches.htm
You will find 100s of mein kamph extracts, show me the smallest proof his ideology was shapped by islam!
Then im not narrow minded to believe that it was the cause of his ideology, rather he hated them, and the bible gave him the endorsment he needed.
I never said the missionaries were responsible for anything, i clearly mentioned the distinction between missionaries, who never achieve anything except when they prey on children, and the crusades, who killed in the hundreds of thousands of innocents. I said this time and time again, were suppressed by leaders in place because of american pressure, american power controlls our leaders, and gives them thier position. I mentioned the shah of iran, husni of egypt, al saud of saudi arabia (remeber the fate of the al saud member who oppesed the west, death in less than a year) king of jordan, leader of palestine ( i dont care if people hate or like arrafat, i personnaly hate him, but he was elected in a democratic manner, but you removed him.
DC- the human rights, that you claim to preserve, is our main issue with the US. We lost all our human rights because of capitalist greed and interest. The process wasnt started by the Americans, rather the british, the french. When after WW1 they won the ottoman empire, and already had egypt from before the world war. After the war they got everything, apart from saudi arabia (knows as Arabia of abdulaziz). Then after ww2 American dominated over britain. The main prblems started when american diplomacy of interference started with the creation of an jewish state, in land stolen forcefully from palestineans. Im realising there is far too much to wright on the topic here and now, but i would suggest any history book on the middle east 1948- today
I would be more than happy to know that America would pull back its aid if that meant my freedom. But how many of our countries recieve your aid? Egypt? Jordan? You only ever gave aid to countries that supported you, look at pakistan, it was sanctioned leaving heavy losses, but when it supported you, you gave aid? And about aid, let the saudis pull out their investment and America will face the biggest economic blow since the great depression. Were talking of up to a trillion dollars in investment, that several millions jobs lost. Then cut of oil, russia cant sell half the barrels you get from muslim countries. Its rediculous to think in terms of "destroy all mosque""nuke all countries" Thats the childs way of thinking, politics cannot work like that. Every country has its interests, you think france, russia, germany opposed iraq war because they gave a damn about iraqies? No the people did, but goverments dont, because politics is all about self interest. Why do you think russia gladly supplies iran with t72 tanks, 5th generation mig fighters, submarines, ballistic misslies, because they like em? No because russia never stopped hating the USA, its a threat to their interests. And Americas venturing into the middle east is too. In the case of an all out war there is no doubt gonna be world war 3, with china, north korea, russia, muslims countries, former soviet block countries, few souther american countries vs israel america southafrika japan england france ( with germany most likely not getting involved, particulary with its insgnificant military force) Do you really want that? I dont care what the cause, i dont want to see millions die and suffer because of the greed of few, the manipulation of many.
There is death penalties in the US, except there with electric seats, and lethal injections.
Jihad is just a word, a word cannot crumble. If its the cause, then day by day it becomes stronger, with more deaths and suffering in iraq and afganistan. America is the one seeing losses, thats why it came in the first place. You invaded iraq and afganistan, around 30 million muslims in total, there are 1.6 billion, so that is insignificant. As for Iran, i can personally say with confidence that iranians do not hate the leadership. Even in the latest political unrest, the 2 main parties were islamic, the reformists were islamists, and the problem lay between muslims preferring one muslim group over the other, well over 50% came voted for the conservatives, dosnt that tell you somthing. There are protests that are anti islamic, but can that even compare to the pro islamic ones, have you ever seen "sahat tahreer" filled with not thousands, or hundreds of thousands, but millions of supporters?
Nathan, syria is not funded in any way by the US, Up to my knowledge, their sanctioned by America. In saudi, you have more money than you do have in many developed countries. In the mideast as a whole the cost of produce is far cheaper than the west, hence the low pay. The part where blaming the west comes in, is the sanctions that left 1.5 million iraqies dead. No ones blaming anything on the west when they speak of iran or jordan, etc...
as for the billion hungry muslims, id love to see where you got that "info" from
Hal, for islamic prophecies go here, there are so many, many coming to life before our eyes. This was compiled by a non muslim
http://www.rexresearch.com/articles/muslim%7E1.htm
As for the moon god theory again
Then when he saw the moon rising, he said: Is this my Lord? So when it set, he said: If my Lord had not guided me I should certainly be of the erring people.
For one, this is in reference to the error of Abraham ( or what he questioned in his head). When "he" being Abraham. I oppened my tafsir (meaning book) and i quote what it had on the meaning of this verse
"The moon, though it looks bigger and brighter than the star, turns out on closer knowledge, not only to set like the star, but to change its shape from hour to hour, and even to depend on for her light on dome other body! ow deceptive of appearances! That is not Allah! At this stage you begin to search for somthing more reliable than appearances to the eye in the darkness of the night. You ask for guidance from Allah "
This is very clear, you took it out of context to justify that Allah is a moon god (rediculous, islam is pure monotheism, we didnt worship a gold cattle, like the jews, and never will) You took the verse out of context, just to be sure of that i will quote 4 verses before and after it!
73
Yusuf Ali's Translation It is He who created the heavens and the earth in true (proportions): the day He saith, "Be," behold! it is. His word is the truth. His will be the dominion the day the trumpet will be blown. He knoweth the unseen as well as that which is open. For He is the Wise, well acquainted (with all things).
74
Yusuf Ali's Translation Lo! Abraham said to his father Azar: "Takest thou idols for gods? For I see thee and thy people in manifest error."
75
Yusuf Ali's Translation So also did We show Abraham the power and the laws of the heavens and the earth, that he might (with understanding) have certitude.
76
Yusuf Ali's Translation When the night covered him over, He saw a star: He said: "This is my Lord." But when it set, He said: "I love not those that set."
77
Yusuf Ali's Translation When he saw the moon rising in splendour, he said: "This is my Lord." But when the moon set, He said: "unless my Lord guide me, I shall surely be among those who go astray."
78
Yusuf Ali's Translation When he saw the sun rising in splendour, he said: "This is my Lord; this is the greatest (of all)." But when the sun set, he said: "O my people! I am indeed free from your (guilt) of giving partners to Allah.
79
Yusuf Ali's Translation "For me, I have set my face, firmly and truly, towards Him Who created the heavens and the earth, and never shall I give partners to Allah."
80
Yusuf Ali's Translation His people disputed with him. He said: "(Come) ye to dispute with me, about Allah, when He (Himself) hath guided me? I fear not (the beings) ye associate with Allah: Unless my Lord willeth, (nothing can happen). My Lord comprehendeth in His knowledge all things. Will ye not (yourselves) be admonished?
I hope that its more than clear now that we do not, and have not worshipped any moon.
Now onto swearing by the moon
31
Yusuf Ali's Translation And We have set none but angels as Guardians of the Fire; and We have fixed their number only as a trial for Unbelievers,- in order that the People of the Book may arrive at certainty, and the Believers may increase in Faith,- and that no doubts may be left for the People of the Book and the Believers, and that those in whose hearts is a disease and the Unbelievers may say, "What symbol doth Allah intend by this?" Thus doth Allah leave to stray whom He pleaseth, and guide whom He pleaseth: and none can know the forces of thy Lord, except He and this is no other than a warning to mankind.
32
Yusuf Ali's Translation Nay, verily: By the Moon,
33
Yusuf Ali's Translation And by the Night as it retreateth,
Read it again, this time within context. For one it is not Muhammed who is wearing by the moon, nor is anyone swearing by the moon (in arabic it says "kala oal qamar" "nay but by(take example) the moon!" it is hard to translate, but the arabic is more than clearly not swaering, but it is trying to emphasize an example. It was meant to show the errand that people were on to have worshipped the moon, the sun, the stars, the idols. It is all within the surah, yet im surprised you quote only this!
Also islam forbids the swearing by anything other than ALLAH, because anything else is but his mere creation. No muslim ever worshipped anything but one god Allah, take Muhammeds first speech on islam, where he went to a hill top and declared "if i told you an army were to attack us from behind this hill top would you believe me?" they(meccans) replied"yes, certainly!" then he proclaimed "there is no god worth worshipping but Allah, the one true god" in any way, there is little need for me to attempt to disprove you, all the previous twisted info you provided will surely cause people to distrust you.
Jay- Saudi is more than 30 % forigner, the foreigners are mostly poor, saudis are on average very rich.

Ahmad, thank you for your marathon post. You really seem to know your Islam. I'll keep this short and not so sweet with regard to your comments about Isreal, and the so-called "Stolen land" from the Palestinians.

Jesus was born in Bethleham. Jesus was also a Jew. Christ was born hundreds of years before Islam became a religion. At best, Islam's inception began 400 years after Jesus died. So, how in the hell do you figure that this is stolen land?

Since you live in the Arab world, you should know first hand of the brutality that many of the leaders in Arab world countries dispense. Or, are we all islamaphobes, just taking everything out of context?

D.C.

Ahmad, thank you for your marathon post. You really seem to know your Islam. I'll keep this short and not so sweet with regard to your comments about Isreal, and the so-called "Stolen land" from the Palestinians.

Jesus was born in Bethleham. Jesus was also a Jew. Christ was born hundreds of years before Islam became a religion. At best, Islam's inception began 400 years after Jesus died. So, how in the hell do you figure that this is stolen land?

Since you live in the Arab world, you should know first hand of the brutality that many of the leaders in Arab world countries dispense. Or, are we all Islamaphobes, just taking everything out of context?

D.C.

Dear Ahmed,
you still have'nt replied to my response to your statements on the Feb 23rd news article.

Dear ahmed,
When you do reply to that, please could you answer this question aswell as it has troubled me for some time:
In the light of sura 33:21; "You have indeed in the apostle of allah a beautiful pattern of conduct" How do you explain the following excerpts?

Tabari VII:7 “The Prophet married Aisha in Mecca three years before the Hijrah, after the death of Khadija. At the time she was six.” Ishaq:281 “When the Apostle came to Medina he was fifty-three.”
Tabari IX:128 “When the Prophet married Aisha she very young and not yet ready for consummation.”
Bukhari:V9B87N139-40 “Allah’s Apostle told Aisha, ‘You were shown to me twice in my dreams [a.k.a. sexual fantasies]. I beheld a man or angel carrying you in a silken cloth. He said to me, “She is yours, so uncover her.” And behold, it was you. I would then say to myself, “If this is from Allah, then it must happen.”’”
Tabari IX:131 “My mother came to me while I was being swung on a swing between two branches and got me down. My nurse wiped my face with some water and started leading me. When I was at the door she stopped so I could catch my breath. I was then brought in while the Messenger was sitting on a bed in our house. My mother made me sit on his lap. Then the men and women got up and left. The Prophet consummated his marriage with me in my house when I was nine years old.”

As a muslim Ahmed, you are entrusting your very soul to the teachings of this man.I urge you to look into his way of life and teachings more diligently.
In the words of Jesus, 500yrs previously:
"watch out for false prophets,they come to you in sheeps clothing....by their fruit you will recognise them." Mt7:15-16.

Dc- The history of palestine goes back several thousands of years, the first being to settle in that land where the cannites. The israeli tribes too settled in, but note, they were not European, they were people from the mideast. The israelies were expelled by the babylonians and the persians time and time again. But they slowly cam back to the land. There is one thing here that people like to assume, that jews are a people, a race, and ignore that they are people who merely believe in an ideology, the jewish one. If jews of today could trace their origins to palestine, id understand, but there is no link. Most research conducted came to the conclusion that the israeli tribes decendants are todays palestineans, as opposed to your average russian jews. Israelies are not semites, by definition, palestineans are, by practice and use of the word, jews are. They came from europe, as europeans, but having accepted judaism they feel a right to palestine. On an international basis, palestineans are the rightfull owners to palestine, while israelies are not. As for the brutality of our leaders, i made it clear that is the reason the American system (not the people) is an enemy. Because there brutality is a result fo American support.
Kc- I have looked at it, i have found a great deal of errors within it, i will reply sometime, maybe in 2 weeks, or when i am free. For now i have a degree to earn.
What the hell is Tabari?! I have never come accross it!
The story of Aisha has been corrupted by you, or whomever has given it to you. The prophet had dreamt of a white moon fall into his lap, abu bakar, the father of aisha had a dream that his daughter was married to Muhammed, he came to Muhammed and offered his daughter. The prophet had not asked for her hand in marriage. But he accepted the offer. She was (as opposed to your false sources) 8 at the time of marriage, and it did not happen untill he had left for madinah (i.e. after hijrah)Further more, she had not lived or slept with Muhammed untill she was 14, (i.e. passed puberty) as it is forbidden before that age. As a muslim i learn from islamic sources kc, as a non muslim, you search for anti islamic sources. And in my experience, i can say that there is not a man on earth who had so many lies created against him. I studied his charechter only to admire it. There is nothing i have found that is neither modest, nor selfless in his charechter, he is perfect.
Nathan-
Pointless arguing with you, you say i lie, for god sake, im an arabic speaking arab, i know my language a million times more than you, i do not need some arrogant fool who cannot compose one word of arabic to teach me. With regard to Allah, tell me then, why do the Arab chrstians call god Allah? And dried wood would effectively be "hatab jaaf" explain how on earth Allah is derived from that. You do not know neither the arabic language, its vocabulary, or its grammer, and you challenge me, then you acuse me of lying you fool!
I speak english fluently as i do Arabic. And not one scholor, not one EVER translated allah to mean dried wood (effectively "hataab jaaf") I challenge you do proove this to me, i want this challenge met, i repeat i challenge you!
So man does not come from earth? Yes he does, man comes from earth, we eat vegetation and it in turn is made into our cells. The verse here is not literal in the sence that god brougth clay and moulded it into mat, it is metaphorcal, moreover genesis has the same descriptions.
Qur’an 13:30 says: “We revealed it to you, but they do not believe in Ar-Rahman. Tell them: ‘He is my Lord. There is no other ilah but He. In Him have I placed my trust.’”

There is no OTHER god(ilah) but he, nathan it is more than clear, you have sight imparment.
Names = many "name" i have already given you quiet a few, your stubborn and have nothing to argu with other than the obvious.
Gods name is "YAHWEH" i thought is was jesus, or father? Your jewish? Everyone may refer to god by whatever means he will, it is not important, it is important that we direct whatever it is we want to to him.
Mecca was the most populated city in arabia, the richest center in the middle east. It was far from being isolated, and his followers topped the 100000 by the time he died, no other prophet made such an achievement.

Ahmad, why is it that in the U.S., we are the melting pot that lets anyone of any color or religion live within our borders, yet in the Arab world, they don't want anyone but Muslims setting foot on that land? Land that doesn't belong to anyone but its creator, God.

Yet Muslims come here, live here, fly planes into buildings here. More double standards and double talk?

Ahmad wrote: As for the brutality of our leaders, i made it clear that is the reason the American system (not the people) is an enemy. Because there brutality is a result fo American support.

D.C. writes: This is a horseshit excuse, baseless, pointing to the U.S. as the scapegote for indiscretions played out on the part of Islamic leaders. So let me get this straight, Uday the (shot up, dead)asshole raped women and threw them out the window to their deaths because of the United States?

c'mon

Dear Ahmed,
I have read your resposes to my comments (inc. in the "Israel arrests Palestinian youths..." article) and I will reply to all of them, It is however monday morning here in England and I have a job to go to! So, for now I will just respond to the aisha topic(above).
Your accusation: "The story of aisha has been corrupted by you....Your false sources...as a non-muslim you search for anti islamic sources..."
#1 Tabari is a muslim historical book not a western one, however it is ok if you do not wish to recognize it as the same account is detailed in the hadith by sahih bukhari.
#2 I researched the following account on an Islamic website; www.usc.edu/dept/msa/ not an anti islamic one.
#3 It has certainly NOT been corrupted or changed by me, you can see the original on the above site, the only thing corrupt is muhammeds actions in the stated verse.
Volume 5, Book 58, Number 234:
Narrated Aisha:

The Prophet engaged me when I was a girl of six (years). We went to Medina and stayed at the home of Bani-al-Harith bin Khazraj. Then I got ill and my hair fell down. Later on my hair grew (again) and my mother, Um Ruman, came to me while I was playing in a swing with some of my girl friends. She called me, and I went to her, not knowing what she wanted to do to me. She caught me by the hand and made me stand at the door of the house. I was breathless then, and when my breathing became Allright, she took some water and rubbed my face and head with it. Then she took me into the house. There in the house I saw some Ansari women who said, "Best wishes and Allah's Blessing and a good luck." Then she entrusted me to them and they prepared me (for the marriage). Unexpectedly Allah's Apostle came to me in the forenoon and my mother handed me over to him, and at that time I was a girl of nine years of age.

Kind regards,
kc.

Ahmad, who are you at war with? It's apparent that you've been well educated. Was that education courtesy of the United States? You stated that you speak english as fluently as you do arabic.

We're you educated at any time in the United States? Were you here on a student visa? I'd just like to know what your agenda is as it pertains to America. I feel compelled to tell you that you've made some comments to myself and to others here at "Jihad Watch" that could be construed as you calling us out. Well, I'll consider myself called, soo let's throw down.

I noticed that in several of these posts, it's mentioned that they're being sent from the Arab world. Like I told the Jihadi who calls himself Reza, the one who posts the rantings of a lunatic
on this site, unfortunately he isn't in my presence so that I can bash his brains in with a ball bat, your comments against my nation are uncalled for and baseless.

You made the remark that the brutality in the Arab world is a result of our actions. After 9/11/01, my disgust and hatred for radical Islam grows by the minute. Throughout my life, assault has been no stranger to me. What a shame it is that I, and many others in America like me can't get our hands around the throats of people like Reza, and from what I'm reading, like you.

Muslims come over and mass breed in an attempt to outnumber us. Our children are already being taught the ways of the Middle East so that they are educated enough to take out the Radical Islam plague.

Islam will not win this war it has started. It would be a good idea to stay where you are. Your fellow Arabs have brought a knife to a gunfight. Therefore, since they supposedly love death more than we love life, they will have their wishes granted.

Actually, if Islamic radicals love death more than we love life, why do they execute their agenda with sneak attacks, then go hide in mud huts or caves? That doesn't sound like much of a death wish to me, and it certainly isn't the action of a true man, but that of a gutless, brainwashed coward.

D.C. Watson Ohio USA

Dc-
I can assure you somthing, we certainly allow forigners in our countries! Cmon go to egypt, thw whole tourism industry is forigner, go to lebanon 50% is non muslim, go to saudi visit the compounds there, go to dubai, it isnt even arab anymore, go to pakistan, go anywhere? We let people stay, ofcourse we do, but i cannot convince you that becuase of all the false info you read, really visit any of the places i mentioned, just go! Arabs are nice, there kind, theyll give you a taste of hospitality. If yo cant accept that, then its your problem, but if you can visit, then i invite you to do so, i know that would convince you.
As for our leaders, ill set the iran iraq war for example, to contain the islamic revolution from spreading to the rest of the middleast, america had supplied saddam with weapons of all sort, remember, they even supplied him with the chemichal weapons that left 10s of thousands of iranians dead, whyd you do so? And why the alliance with the dictators, and why call people terrorists when they ry to overthrow the dictators (i.e. former egyptian president, whos killing was condemned untill today) you think if we revolute that Americans wont come to the assistance of our leaders. I think what we do feel most is the American policy of applying pressure on our leaders to do things against our wishes, to imprison sheikhs, to ban books, to exrtadite others, etc.. to channge our leadership(palestine, iran?)
Kc- I am not very sure who tabari is, i assure you i have never heard of him. Though i have been educated thouroughly on the life of the Prophet Muhammed, i will suggest a book that you may read "Muhammed a mercy to mankind". He was married to her at 8, at the request of Bukhari, and had slept with her at 14. I might be wrong, one never is perfect, but i very strongly disagree in accordance to what ive learnt throughout my life.
Dc-Im am at war with the US government, with the israelies. With the US government because of what they do to support the oppression back home, the israelis because i have become stateless. Because they shot my grandfather in his leg when he refused to leave his home, then drove hi and the rest of my family from their city into a refugee camp. My father sought an education, which he got, and recognized the need to educate me in english. I have never visited America, and my english was learnt at a private school, as well as tv. I think ive been more than just polite here at juhad watch, im not an enemy of any person, or nation, and vise versa. You on the other hand have said every anti islamic statement you could. From demoloshing mosques, to kicking out muslims, your flat out radical. How many muslims have ever hurt Americans, other than numbers you can count on your fingers? Have you seen muslims go in their hordes to engage americans, to kill them? But i see a vast army on the door step of my neigboring country, an even more vast one in my own. Why should i have to agree with the idea of an army being stationed in my country, no im going to obviously resist it, be it with arms or words. It is my right under geneva, under islam, and no one can tell me its wrong, its immoral!
As far as you hatred and disgust of islam, it is one you made, not us, or the scriptures. My disgust with and hatred of America, has, and always will be one limited to the government, to the rich policy makers. Muslims come because, they, like me, are either stateless or suppressed. You do know that americans arnt any less fond of coming to rich middle eastern countries to make money? In saudi some of my closest friends were Americans (ones i actually got along with, ones i assure you would renounce the rubbish on this site) As for the love of death, i think they exprress there feelings incorrectly, i think its the fearlessness in battles, they dont hide in caves, you hide in armour, in planes! But thats war, you can be brave, but its stupidity to run out when its raining bombs.
Kc- i wont be able to reply time and time again, my education comes first, i was just hoping by any chance to enlighten people as to what the average muslim thinks, but they dont seem willing to believe, and i care little. People who know me, or other muslims best, can make there judgment as to what or who we are, what we believe.
Regards
Ahmad
(p.s. i dont live, or ever lived, in the USA)

Dear Ahmed
I have made my judgement regarding moslems,- they are the same as any other people group, some good, some bad. I have many arab/iranian/somali moslems as friends - good friends. And your comment about Arab hospitality was very true - I have not experienced any like it. I am NOT anti - moslem ahmed, do you know what my job was today that I referred to earlier?
It is my day off on mondays, But I work voluntry teaching english to yemenis, who have become good friends of mine.
It is the moslem religion - Islam I do not like - not the people. I have studied it at length (from all sources) reading both the pro-literature and the anti, which I feel is nessecary to make a conclusion- (do you think I have taught yemenis for a year and they have not tried to convert me?!!)I have also studied christianity, again reading both pro and anti literature, and have concluded this to be true - the true path - the only way man is able to be reconciled to God is through believing in the redemptive work that Jesus did on the cross, when God took all of my sin and laid it on Jesus, thus justifying me in His sight, and by me believing in that ,opened to me the doors of salvation.
As proof to the people around him at the time, that this message was true, Jesus did not only preach to try and convince people, He did many miraculous signs to confirm His word - And He is STILL doing them today, Ahmed, to confirm that He IS the truth. I have seen with my own eyes someone healed of throat cancer after he was sent home from hospital as the doctors could do no more for him, My own husband was healed of bells palsy 10 yrs ago, I HAVE seen the crippled walk and the blind see (literally) (check out www.cfan.org go to 'testimonies' & www.themaninthesynagogue.org/miracles.htm )
(on the last web site you can actually watch a video of someone being healed-its a bit gross but amazing- the woman with 'lip cancer' as they called it)
And there I offer to you Ahmed, my own testimony, I am sorry if in earlier posts I offended you personally, This was not my intention.
with regards,
kc

Ahmad wrote: "How many muslims have ever hurt Americans, other than numbers you can count on your fingers?"

Ahmad, apparently, like many Islam followers I've seen use this site to make their feeble attempts at justifying their actions, you've developed selective amnesia. Unless I was born with three thousand fingers and no one told me about it, the American deaths that Muslims perpetrated on the 9/11/01 "sucker punch" far exceed being able to count them on one finger.

Or did we attack ourselves? Or did the Jews mastermind this attack? No, ding dong, Muslims did it, Muslims boasted that they did it, and you damn well know it. I have news for you, Muslims don't own everything they set their feet on, and they will never overtake this nation.

The mosques you referenced have hatred for Americans being preached inside, on American soil no less. We are fully aware of Radical Islam's agenda. Moderate Muslims, and apologists can say what they want about Islam being peaceful. All anyone has to do is turn on the news or read the paper and know that it's all a facade. Oh, were peaceful.....kaboom........no really, we are a peaceful religion.......kaboom, kabooom.

Say what you want. If you're at war with the American Government, then you might as well be declaring war with all of us, we voted them in.

Your comments come off like the actions of radical Islam are warranted. So, if you're a Jihadi, bring it, I have something waiting for you.

D.C.

KC - I totally agree with you. You obviously are someone who knows the Word of God and the Qu'ran. The average Muslim probably never reads the Qu'ran, they just believe what they are told. It is a mindless religion FULL of descreapancies. There way out of them is to shout and rave. Funny, I don't see Christians doing that. But then it is the truth - and the truth speaks for itself. Stevie

I AM SIMPLE MEX. CITIZEN AND I DISAGREE WITH THE U.S. POLICY FOR COUNTRIES IN THE MIDDLE EAST I FEEL A LITTLE BIT BAD COZ MEXICO IS HAVING THE SAME ATTITUD FOR THOSE COUNTRIES, SOMETIMES PROHIBITING THE ENTRANCE INTO THE COUNTRY TO CITIZENS FROM THE MIDDLE EAST, MY THING IS COME FOR MEXICO, IF MEX. IS NOT WITH YOU IS AGAINST YOU.