Pure or impure, the teachings of Mohammed are false and the sooner this reality comes to light, the better for all of us.

However, I believe the Lord is using this temporary distraction (Islam) to raise up an army of passionate prayer warriors who are seeking the true, living God through His Son, Jesus, by His Holy Spirit - may God's will be done and His Kingdom come on earth as it is in heaven, revealing the Truth to each of us, including these Muslim young people.

The reason the "moderates" remain silent is that they know that "Pure Islam" is the "real Islam." It is the moderates who are the false interlopers, and they know it. If they tried to argue with the "purists" based on the Quran and the Sunnah they would lose. So they keep quiet.

Fortunatly this guys mosque consists of only about 50 people, most of whom, as you can see from the picture are too scared to show their faces. The British government is currently going through the courts to deport this guy back to Egypt, largely due to the huge public backlash against him. The sooner he's off our shores the better.

You'll notice that Abu Hamza has a hook for one hand. He claims he lost his hand fighting the Russians, but there is a scurrilous rumour that he had it cut off under sharia law as a common thief.

KC(UK):

Remember, allegedly, Mohammed scuttled out of Mecca with only 50 adherents...

I suspect there is a similar phenomenon in the US in prisons and among some young blacks.

".They are going through the court process to deport him".....now,isn`t that ridiculous?!
They should just put him on a plain and send him back to Egypt,period.
The key word here is ,as Nathan said,
BAN THE QURAN,in all western countries.

The fact that these are second or third generation immigrants is significant. Unlike the first generation, who know how bad it is under Sharia and decided to come to the UK for a better life, this lot see 'pure' Islam throught rose coloured specs.

Would they give up their mobile phones, email access or whatever, even though these inventions are from the 'evil' West. I suspect not. Plus they totally take for granted the freedom of speech and opinion allowed in the UK, without realising that all this would go by the board under Sharia.

They're similar to the communists of an earlier generation, taking advantage of Western tolerance to preach destruction of Western freedom.

The "moderates" have already lost the battle for the soul of Islam. Or rather, they chose not to fight. The "purists" have no such compunctions, and they are willing to kill to win.

Taken with the story below about Malaysia, the goal of the purists is clear. They want to replace all cultures and religions with Arabic Wahhabi culture. They have already succeeded in several areas around the world, as you can see in this article: http://bangladesh-web.com/view.php?hidDate=2004-02-14&hidType=HIG&hidRecord=0000000000000000001102

There is only one choice. You can resist radical Islam or surrender to it.

Susan, it could also be that there are afraid to say anything - afraid for their lives! This is an extremely serious turn of events, especially right now for Britain; though these people have their sights set on other countries as well. There are a few moderate voices (Sheikh Palazzi and my good friend, Sarah, in Canada). I pray that G-d protects them.

I thought the Brits shut Hamza up and told him to stay away from Finsbury Park Mosque. The Yemenis are trying to extradite him, but that probably won't happen. He has lost an eye too, I think. I know he worked as bar bouncer in London for a while. With a mit like his, not too many customers would skip their bar bills.

Adela:
I agree with you, he should have 'just been sent back, period' but unfortunatly my country is just as bound up in 'political correctness' and the extreme left wing version of 'human rights' as any other western nation. All the time this process is going on, we, the Brits are paying him welfare and giving him a house to live in!!!
Mark:
You're right, he has been banned from preaching at finsbury park mosque, thats why he, and his 'congregation' are out on the street (as shown in the picture)
I have always been suspicious of his claims he lost his hand fighting the Russians,and thought he more likely got it amputated for stealing...I didn't realise it was an established theory!

Are you all scared darlings... ban the Quran.. what on Earth can a BOOK do for God sake!! WEll maybe it's just cuz you're all born cowards and its no wonder that you kill innocent children (iraq.. ) orphan them, rape and torture our women in the most unhumane fashion( Kashmir, Gujarat, afghanistan..), occupy our lands (chechneya, palestine, kashmir....) and when we fight for our freedom, u call the palestinians terrorists, isnt is israel that should be given that brand. All they want is their lives back!!

The fathers in front of whom their daughters are stripped, and the brothers and husbands are crying out so loud ur ears have lost their hearing so you can hear nothing but your own scared frightened cacophony. Those thousands of people burnt alive.. those little children left without a family.

You're the real terrorists. It's YOU its all YOU out there. But you're only cowards, frightened.. scared, we may be weak right now but u have made us strong, given us the determination to fight back, and we're not afraid to die.

Its said rightly in the Quran.. they have eyes but they cannot see, they have ears but they cannot hear and over their hearts is a cover.

Wake up people!! Wake up from the intoxication of your nightclubs and luxuries because you are the cause for the misery of millions, I have no idea how u sleep in peace at night.

Welcome Saba... to the delusional world of being a Muslim. How very silly and backward you sound. It is the Muslims destroying any peace on earth throughout the world. If we didn't hear about Muslims killing everyone, the world would be a peaceful place. In Kosovo, the Muslims started the war - in Israel, the Muslims could have had land (NOT deserved) in 1948 - but it wasn't enough to have land, they wanted to kill all those that were not Muslim. Afghanistan is no different. Saba, do us all a favor and pick up a book and read, get an education - and open up your delusional mind. If not- we will gladly give you a free plane ticket home to one of the 22 Muslim countries your people have already claimed. There you may live in Wabbhai Muslim BLISS OF HELL.

Hey, Saba.

The Bible is banned in Saudi Arabia. What can a book do?

jay

Test

Hey Saba, it's easy for you to call everyone cowards through e-mail. You spineless little freedom hater. You say we are the true terrorists?

You're just another brainwashed little man with an oversized mouth. Hey dumbshit, Americans didn't go to Iraq to kill innocent children. We're there to make sure pigs like Saddam Hussein and others like him don't do it anymore.

We've seen the footage of the dead children laying in the streets after Hussein had them gassed. You made the statement "we're not afraid to die", I'd say that's a good thing for you.

And by the way, cretin, when did American troops torture and rape women in Afghanistan? With regard to Kashmir, isn't it the Hindus you pukes are fighting with over there, and not Americans?

You're as ignorant as they come, spewing out more propaganda and rhetoric. Like you said yourself, you are weak right now. Weak of force, and especially weak of mind.

One last thing boy...you call us cowards, while you are capable of pulling nothing more than sneak attacks, then hiding in caves and mud huts.
Punk ass...

D.C. Watson, Ohio USA

It's a constant battle of the egos on this website, I see. Good luck to both sides.

Says Rumi:

let them sleep.

This Love is beyond the study of theology,
that old trickery and hypocrisy.
I you want to improve your mind that way,

sleep on.

I've given up on my brain.
I've torn the cloth to shreds
and thrown it away.

If you're not completely naked,
wrap your beautiful robe of words
around you,

and sleep.

im not well read in the bible (or any religious book for that matter) but is there any passages where jesus encourages violence against other religions?

It is a sad commentary on what is being taught in Radical, or what "Demagogic Clerics" may call pure Islam. They seek to gain power by appealing to the ignorance and vunerabilities of young muslims. So much of the discource coming from parts of the Islamic countries has been influenced by the radical thinking of Wahhabism which had its roots originating in Saudia Arabia over 200 years ago. Many Muslims refer to the Wahhabists as members of a "the Death cult". It is this Wahhabist cult that has fueled so much of the radical thinking in the Islamic Community. It has influenced the making of The Hamas Charter which seeks to rid the world of all infidels unless they convert to to being a Muslime. Most of the 30 Islamic terrorist groups that the U.S. State Department recognizes in the world today have been influenced by this Wahhabist Cult thinking. In their world , the word tolerance does not exist. Again most experts believe that this radical Islamic thinking represents around 10 percent of the islamic world.

Dear Joseph..
NOWHERE in Jesus' teachings did He advocate/encourage/command the use of ANY violence or force against people of other religions.
When one of his disciples used the sword against a Jew, Jesus rebuked him:
"And suddenly one of those with Jesus stretched out his hand and drew his sword, struck the servant of the high priest and cut off his ear,then Jesus said to him, 'Put your sword in its place, for all who take the sword will perish by the sword.' " Mat.26:51-52.
Also regarding those of other faiths who won't listen to the gospel or convert, Jesus instructs us:
"And whoever will not receive you or hear you, when you depart from there,shake off the dust from under your feet as a testimony against them," Mark 6:11.
This is in stark contrast with the teachings of Islam.

Everyone understands that the young are idealistic and vulnerable to those that prey upon their naitivete as did some did to our youth during 60s and radicalized them against the Vietnam War. They did have an effect. The Radical Islamists probably knew about this long before the war in Vietnam.

However, what is happening to Muslim youth is much more serious . The meme of radical Islam, if allowed to spread further in the west will be a world-wide disaster.

World conquest or world annihilation is their stated goal.

Take measure now to prevent the further spread. Be brave enough to make your voices heard regardless of PC mentalities.

Thank you KC England..

You hit it right on the head.

I love it how they log on... spew their garbage and vanish... They never off anything new no revalation to make us all say.... hmmm maybe.

What a sad people always proclaiming to be the victims. Do they ever get tired of that. Poor me... poor me.... I could not live my life that way. Take responsibility for your lives and Drag yourselves out of the middle ages. Join us in the modern world it has much to offer.

You can not blame America, or England. Jews or Christians. Muslims have yoked themselves to a dead tired worthless cult.

dear all...

id like to greet you with the islamic greetings assalam alaikum wa rahmatullahi ba barakatuhu May the peace and blessings of almighty God be upon you

i do appreciate your attempts to wake me up from my 'delusional muslim world'. its touching really how concerned people all over the world can be about one little helpless girl who can do nothing more than 'spew propoganda and rhetoric'..

previously.. by 'you' i meant american russian hindu christian. i was a lot into kashmir and gujarat bcuz its my country and they were my own people who were burnt and tortured.

blah blah blah im sorry but time does not permit me to do justice to everything u say and everything i wanna say.

and no, its not poor me. I'm grateful to God Almighty for guiding me, im satisfied with what He has given me and im ecstatic that Islam is the fastest growing religion around the world.

If someon'e poor, its u ladies and gentlemen, i pray to God Almighty to guide you, grant you peace and increase your understanding.

if im mad at someone it is the arab leaders of the muslim world who 're like chickens, cooped up, too immersed in oil and luxury.

" Pure or impure, the teachings of Mohammed are false and the sooner this reality comes to light, the better for all of us. "

I really dont know how far each of you has really read about Islam or any of its teachings, or have u merely watched television.. uncle bush and his propoganda.

sabaaaaa u dun have tiiiiime for thisss.. go get studying gurl!!!!

ohkayy the boss says i hafta go am real sorry inshallah i'll be able to enlighten you with something solid later.. i can understand how it sounds like spew to you rite now, i hope ull be able to go 'hmmm maybe' then.

..Are you looking for the TrUtH?..
...will you accept it if u Find it ? ...

SAba

SABA SAID: "if im mad at someone it is the arab leaders of the muslim world who 're like chickens, cooped up, too immersed in oil and luxury".

Correct, they are the ones that keep their countrymen in squalor, not the West......

Islam is not the truth. Are you making the statement that Christianity, Hinduism, Buddhism and Judiasm were a made up story until Islam came along?

You are out on Pluto if that's your belief.

We'll never be able to convince the other which idea is "right." And as the two are so incompatible, the only "peaceful" solution is separation. However, because one group refuses to accept separation(Islam) and demands that the other (the West) accept (conversion or dhimmitude) in the Caliphate, the problem becomes, how to protect the West from Islam.

As for the "atrocities" described by Saba, I wonder if Islamists didn't continue to press to absorb or kill their neighbors over the centuries, whether the Balkan Wars or the problems in Punjab and Guajarat could have been avoided. It's a puzzle. Hmmm. What do you think?

Saba should organize her thoughts before she types them into her mobile phone while driving with the top down.

Actually, she doesn't make points, but does have a few old slogans. My personal favorite is the "fastest growing religion". Based on what? Based on Saba's say-so. The nice thing about slogans is, they don't require difficult self-examination. Right Saba?

Dear Saba;
"..Are you looking for the TrUtH?..
...will you accept it if u Find it ? ..."
No, Saba, I am not looking for the truth, as I have already found it and accepted it, thankyou.

"I really dont know how far each of you has really read about Islam or any of its teachings, or have u merely watched television.."
I have read and studied Islam a LOT saba, Have you?? Do you REALLY beleive stuff like THIS??;
Hadith by bukhari, vol.4, book54,#421
“I walked hand in hand with the Prophet when the sun was about to set. We did not stop looking at it. The Prophet asked, ‘Do you know where the sun goes at sunset?’ I replied, ‘Allah and His Apostle know better.’ He said, ‘It travels until it falls down and prostrates Itself underneath the Throne. The angels who are in charge of the sun prostrate themselves, also. The sun asks permission to rise again. It is permitted. Then it will prostrate itself again but this prostration will not be accepted. The sun then says, “My Lord, where do You command me to rise, from where I set or from where I rose?” Allah will order the sun to return whence it has come and so the sun will rise in the west. And that is the interpretation of the statement of Allah in the Qur’an.’”
Or how about..
Tabari I:219 “When Allah wanted to create the creation, He brought forth smoke from the water. The smoke hovered loftily over it. He called it ‘heaven.’ Then He dried out the water and made it earth. He split it and made it seven earths on Sunday. He created the earth upon a big fish, that being the fish mentioned in the Qur’an. By the Pen, the fish was in the water. The water was upon the back of a small rock. The rock was on the back of an angel. The angel was on a big rock. The big rock was in the wind. The fish became agitated. As a result, the earth quaked, so Allah anchored the mountains and made it stable. This is why the Qur’an says, ‘Allah made for the earth firmly anchored mountains, lest it shake you up.’”
Maybe Saba, just maybe, its you who really needs to read and study Islam, I'll leave you with this to dwell on, as a woman, what your 'prophet' thought of women;

hadith by bukhari,Volume 3, Book 48, Number 826:

The Prophet said, "Isn't the witness of a woman equal to half of that of a man?" The women said, "Yes." He said, "This is because of the deficiency of a woman's mind."
Happy studying, Saba,
KC

I’m looking forward to her returning... I would like to get a crack at her tomorrow.

I always find it amazing how they point out "atrocities" of others, and always fail to point the "atrocities" within their own religion or what they have done to religions and cultures since Islam’s invention. They are very quick to say you are oppressing us, and our religion. They always fail to realize how oppressive Islam has been and still is.

I would love just once for them to come up with a real thought. Something original, something that validates a point they have made, or even better make a point. I’m tired of the same old rhetoric. Zionist plot blah blah blah.. The Jews blah blah blah. Christians have blah blah blah.. America and the west is the cause of blah blah blah. Every one of them chime in with the same song and dance. No matter where they live no matter where they come from. It’s always the same “we are victims” speech. Come on just once give us something that sound plausible.

The killing they are doing on a daily basis negates the victim claim. They have caused the world to mistrust them. They have caused the world to think less of them. Because they have as a whole violated the basic principals of human existence.

Just once I would love for them to read New Testament scripture and tell me where it’s wrong. Tell me where Jesus missed the point. All of us here can go to the Quran and pull out the contradiction in it. Never once have they been able to do the same from our religion. So before she comes back spewing her own lack of understanding in her religion. Take the time to tell me that Jesus’ message of love and his sacrifice was not enough for them.

I would love just once for them to come up with a real thought. Something original, something that validate a point. Not the standard lines. Zionist blah blah blah.. Christians blah blah blah.. America is causing all of this blah blah blah.... come on just once give us something that sound plausable.

Saba, you are not supposed to greet infidels with the secret holy password. Several hadiths forbid it. You could probably get lashed for doing that in Saudi Arabia.

Dear Saba,

Also for your musing.....

Tabari I:280 “Allah said, ‘It is My obligation to make Eve bleed once every month as she made this tree bleed. I must also make Eve stupid, although I created her intelligent.’ Because Allah afflicted Eve, all of the women of this world menstruate and are stupid.”

Qur’an 4:43 “Believers, approach not prayers with a mind befogged or intoxicated until you understand what you utter. Nor when you are polluted, until after you have bathed. If you are ill, or on a journey, or come from answering the call of nature, or you have touched a woman, and you find no water, then take for yourselves clean dirt, and rub your faces and hands. Lo! Allah is Benign, Forgiving.” [The Qur’an claims women are unclean and polluted—worse than dirt.]

Ishaq:584 “Tell the men with you who have wives: never trust a woman.”

Enjoy dear lady... enjoy

See Saba??
There are LOTS of us here who have read and studied the qur'an/Islam a whole lot more than the majority of muslims.
And thats why we all come to the same resounding conclusion;
ITS NOT TRUE!!!!!!!!!!!
Before you come back with a response, go away, search out & study all the verses quoted in the above posts, and then come back with an answer as to why you have deemed this to be the truth, and why you are willing to entrust your very soul to these teachings.
THINK SABA, THINK.

Assalam Alaikum May peace and blessings of Almighty God be upon you,

Oh my dear lord!!!!! :)

inshallah i will definitely do justice to every post i can kc wild hare susan nathan basil epg dc..

exams till 16th, and yes basil inshallah ill try to be as organised as i can!!

good gracious its like bang!! :P no im not gonna call u so relentlessly ignorant.. (if something like that exists!) cuz i know it'll only make u mad and ull say im spewing again and ull say im a terrorist n this n that..

so pleeeez bear with me till that time, to keep you busy check this out www.themodernreligion.com,
A bientot!

May Allah guide us all,
SAba

Guess that was a long way of saying we'll never see you again.

For a Muslim, you sure do type inner city....I like it...keep going, become Americanized, you'll love the life. No Hijab, no mistreatment...c'mon girl.

Renounce Islam....If you're in America, it's OK, we're a free people. Black, White, Yellow, Red, it doesn't matter, as long as you love this land and it's values. We have our problems, but certainly not like your people. You know, because you said it yourself that the Saudis are entrenched in wealth and oil......while they, and the Mullahs keep their own people in poverty as they embezzle all of the booty.

Now's your opportunity.

D.C.

Saba,

Good luck with your exams. I don't know where you are posting from, but it's almost certainly not Afghanistan.

jay

Saba,

I posted you a few Quranic vs. yesterday. Im going to give you one from our bible.

Ephesians 5:25-27 GWT
And you husbands must love your wives with the same love Christ showed the
church. He gave up his life for her to make her holy and clean, washed by
baptism and God's word. He did this to present her to himself as a glorious
church without a spot or wrinkle or any other blemish. Instead, she will be
holy and without fault.

Its a beautiful Vs... I hope you enjoy it.

Hey everyone tuesday chem 16th march independance day :P am i forgottwen? ..hope not! tc
SAba

Saba,
It's obvious that your idea of a 'United Nations' is a one-world caliphate under Shariah Law.
Over my dead body!!!!
America, with all her problems and difficulties, is the last great hope of the planet. Here we are, so many of us from different races and backgrounds, learning to live together in respect. 'E Pluribus Unum'. 'Under God', but not the petty tribal Old Testament God of your fundamentalist Islamic phantasy world.
May that which is highest and best in you help you to evolve beyond your medieval consciousness into the 21st Century.
MikeH
PS
I sleep really well at night; no problems.
PPS
Don't mess with the US!!!!

If Islam is so Evil how come Salahuddin Ayubi Pardoned hundreds of thousands of christian crusaders after conquering Jerusalem, I guess he was a devout muslim.

Howcome Jews thrived in Spain for centuries under the Ummayyad caliphite.

Howcome the hindus were not slaughtered and annihilated in India under hundreds of years of Mighty Mughal dynasty.

If christainity is so peace loving what happened during the Spanish inquisition? Was Hitler a Muslim? How about Karadzic?

Why cant you people understand that there is good n evil in every culture, ethnicity, society n religion.

Those muslims who are killing innocent people, who discriminate with their women, who preach violence, they r not following the religion. One can interpret the same hadith, or surah from the quran in many ways. I am a muslim, tomorrow even if a grand mulla tells me to just kill someone, I will tell him to buzz off, why? because it is wrong.

Also you cannot clap with one hand. If the chechens are blowing up theaters in moscow, which is wrong, what are the russians doing in chechnya? slaughtering whole villages. I guess if the palestinians had F16s and M1A1s they wouldnt be blowing themselves up personally.

Hopefully there will be reconciliation and this mess will stop. May there be peace n love n harmony.

Dear MK:

"Those muslims who are killing innocent people, who discriminate with their women, who preach violence, they r not following the religion. One can interpret the same hadith, or surah from the quran in many ways. I am a muslim, tomorrow even if a grand mulla tells me to just kill someone, I will tell him to buzz off, why? because it is wrong."

If you could supply a more coherent and comprehensive response to radical Muslim theology than "it is wrong," you might be on to something.

Cordially
RS

oh well i guess ill just post..

This has gotten kinda long so I'd request you to please take the time to carefully read it before you start hitting at me.. oops spewing at me.

Yesterday was kinda like the first time i actually read all your comments carefully and i realized that all this time, it's not been me but it's you oll ov you who've been slandering and spewing. I will not do that but I wiLL take that as a passport to be more liberal in expressing emotions.

Im sorry to say this but for all your claims of americanisation, "no hijab no mistreatment", you're just as misinformed or should i say uninformed as you claim you ARE informed!

By the look of all the quotes you've sent to me, it really feels like you think a book written by any tom dick or harry is an authority on Islam. The Quran is not the Bible, yes I know you'll tell me those people were inspired maybe maybe not i dun really give a damn.

Well i did my own 'googly' for ..guess wat! What is Tabari. I was thinking more like who is Tabari but considering it was supposed to be a book.. They tell me " TABARI -- Textual Analysis By Augmented Replacement " And im like naaaaah.... They tell me this time "This old man
was Tabari, one of the greatest historians of Islam."

Historian???????????????????????????????????????????????????? These punks have been posting me from a history book???????????????? ???????

The Quran is the word of Allah swt, quote it for me. We Muslims are to follow the Quran and the hadith. Hadith- it is a collection of reports by people later in time of the habits and lifestyle of the propher (saw) and his sayings. The lifestyle of the prophet (saw) was a reflection of the Quran and we are to follow his ways best as much as we can. There are many collections of hadith but Al-bukhari is considered to be the most authentic, as he verified the same incidents by many people- accordingly there are weak hadith and strong hadith.

Alhamdulillah Im a born Muslim as in Ive been Muslim all my life, and I have NEver even heard of this guy!! Islam is based on the Quran and the sunnah. The Quran is the word of God, unchanged by even a single word over 1400 years now. Wild Hare, there has been a challenge in the Quran, not from two days ago, not a week, not 5 years, not 10 but for 1400 years. The challenge of the Quran is to produce a single Surah like the Surahs it contains. The same challenge is repeated in the Quran several times. The challenge to produce a Surah which in beauty, eloquence, depth and meaning is at least somewhat similar to a Quranic Surah is unmet to this day.

I wonder why noone has come up with something yet. Why dont you googly this one.

And ahh yes Wild Hare, if a book is to be the word of God, it must not ontain any contradictions!! I wanna see these 'pulled out contradictions' in the Quran. Look all your want, u will not find ONE single contrdcshn whether factual or otherwise.

"Just once I would love for them to read New Testament scripture and tell me where it's wrong. Tell me where Jesus missed the point. All of us here can go to the Quran and pull out the contradiction in it. Never once have they been able to do the same from our religion. So before she comes back spewing her own lack of understanding in her religion. Take the time to tell me that Jesus' message of love and his sacrifice was not enough for them. "

On the other hand.. let me amuse you:
I'd like you to actually open your Bible and spend a little time on this............

GOD OR THE DEVIL????

II SAMUEL 24
The Numbering:
And the anger of the lord was kindles against Israel, and he moved David against them to say, Go, number Israel and Judah.

I CHRONICLES 21
The Numbering:
And Satan stood up against Israel, and proboked David to number Israel.

Authors of both books 'Chronicles' and of 'Samuel' are telling us the same story about David taking a census of the Jews. Where did David get teh inspiration to do this novel deed? The author of Samuel says it's Lord God but author of chronicles says it's the Satan!!

WHAT DID THE LORD DECREE 3 YRS FAMINE or & YRS FAMINE?

II SAMUEL 24:13

13 So Gad came to David, and told him, and said unto him, Shall seven years of famine come unto thee in thy land? or wilt thou free three months before thine enemies, while they pursue thee?

I CHRONICALES 21:11

11 So Gad came to David, and said unto him, Thus saith the Lord, Choose thee
12 Either three years famine or three months to be destroyed before thy foes, while that the sword of thine enemies overtaketh thee;

If God is the authot of every single word, comma and full stop of the Bible, as the Christians claim, then is He the author of the above arithmetical discrepancy as well?

These are just a couple, im fed up typing i wud've sent u more...

"Just once I would love for them to read New Testament scripture and tell me where it's wrong. Tell me where Jesus missed the point. All of us here can go to the Quran and pull out the contradiction in it. Never once have they been able to do the same from our religion. So before she comes back spewing her own lack of understanding in her religion. Take the time to tell me that Jesus' message of love and his sacrifice was not enough for them. "

Wild Hare, Islam is not a new religion. It has been the religion since the beginning of time. Allah (azzawajal) has sent thousands and thousands of messengers from time to time to different places on Earth. But each of these messengers and their messages were meant for a certain time and for a certain people. So were the mightiest messengers of Allah (azzawajal) Jesus and Moses. They were sent for a certain people and a certain time. After that expired, the books underwent alteration, they changes/ were changed by people for their own benifit, why the Bible is still undergoing change as of 50 years ago!!

Ask me if u wanna know what changes im tired typing.

JESUS FOR JEWS ONLY

"These twelve Jesus sent forth, and commanded them saying,
Go ye not into the way of the Gentiles,
and into any city of the Samaritans enter ye not:
But go ye rather unto The Lost Sheep Of The House Israel." (Holy Bible) Matthew 10:5-6

NOT FOR DOGS

"And behold a woman of Canaan came... and cried unto him saying have mercy on me... my daughter is seriously possessed with a devil.
But he answered her not a word.
And his disciples came and begges him, saying, Send her away: for she crieth after us.
But he answered and said, I am Not Sent But Unto The Lost Sheep Of The House Of Israel.
But she came an knelt before him, saying Lord, help me.
But he answered her and said, It Is Not Fair To Take The Children's Bread And Cast It To The Dogs."

(Holy Bible) Matthew 15:22-26

It was not Jesus (pbuh - peace be upon him) who missed the point. It is YoU, who 're lost.

THE BOOK CHRISTENED "THE NEW TESTAMENT"

Im intrigued Wild Hare... who wrote the Bible? And what is "ACCORDING TO?" Why does every Gospel begin with the introduction - "According to" The Gospel according to Saint Matthew... THe Gospel According to Saint Luke... The Gospel accorsing to Saint Mark.... The Gospel according to Saint John...

Even internal evidence proves that Matthew was not the author of the Gospel which bears his name.

"Ans as Jesus passed forth thence, HE (JESUS) saw a man, names Matthew, sitting at the rceipt of custom: and HE(JESUS) saith unto HIM(MATTHEW), follow ME(JESUS) And HE(MATTHEW) arose, and followed HIM(JESUS)." (Matthew 9:9)

Without any stretch of the imagination, one can see that the "Hez" and "Himz" of the aboce narration do not refer to Jesus or Matthew as its authot, but some thrid person writing what se saw and heard- a heresay account. If we cannot even attribute this "book of dreams" (as the firsat Gospel is also described_ to the disciple Matthew, how can we acept it as the word of God?

"Just once I would love for them to read New Testament scripture and tell me where it's wrong. Tell me where Jesus missed the point. All of us here can go to the Quran and pull out the contradiction in it. Never once have they been able to do the same from our religion. So before she comes back spewing her own lack of understanding in her religion. Take the time to tell me that Jesus' message of love and his sacrifice was not enough for them. "

READ YOUR BIBLE Wild Hare... read it carefully and do not come back spewing you lack of understanding in MY religion AND yours.

" I posted you a few Quranic vs. yesterday. Im going to give you one from our bible. "

Wild Hare, you did not post me a 'few' verses from the Quran. You posted me some crap from somewhere i have no idea exists or holds any importance! Yes you did post me one verse which you manipulated with such ignorance, the patient mind that i've been so carefully tending so that i can type this mail.. fails me.

This is the verse you sent me boy.

"O you who believe! Approach not As-Salat (the prayer) when you are in a drunken state until you know (the meaning) of what you utter, nor when you are in a state of janabah (ie. in a state of sexual impurity and have not yet taken a bath) except when travelling on the road (without enough water, or just passing through a mosque ), till you wash your whole body. And if you are ill, or on a journey, or one of you have been in contact with women (by sexual relations) and you find no water, perform Tayammum with clean earth and rub therewith your faces and hands (Tayammum) Truly, Allah is Ever Oft-Pardoning, Oft-forgiving." [Al-Quran 4:43]

Islam is religion which gives great importance to cleanliness and hygiene of our person, of our surroundings, we cant just 'wipe ourselves' after attending to the call of nature. In Islam, clealiness is half of faith.

Before praying, one is supposed to perform ablution (or wudu) and if one has had sexual relations with his/her spouse, one is supposed to take a bath (ghusl) before one can stand for prayer. Ablution involves the washing of hands uptill the elbows, feet and face. And the ghusl or bath requires one to wash the whole body.

Obviously, the question arises, what when there is no water available? If there is no water available, then one can perform Tayammum, where one can use earth-dirt-clean mud.

If according to you, women are unclean and polluted, then men are equally unclean and polluted because the very same laws hold also for women. I have discussed women and their place in Islam later in this post.. you can refer to it.

I do not want to do this Wild Hare, but your ignorant spewing and calumny forces me. I will give you a few other verses from YOUR bible Wild Hare...

George Bernard Shaw said: “The most dangerous book (the Bible) on earth, keep it under lock and key.” But who will follow his advice?

Daughters seduce their father

Read Genesis 19, verses 30 to the end.

You have been programmed with selected verses for propogation. Id luv to show you holes in the ‘holiness’ that u have not seen. Don’t pretend to see the filth for the first time.

To continue: the ‘history’ has it that, night after night, the daughters of Lot seduce their drunken father with the noble (?) motive of preserving their father’s “seed”. “Seed” figures very prominently in this “Holy Book” : forty seven times in the little booklet of Genesis alone! Out of this another incestuous relationship come the “Ammonities” and the “Moabites”, for whom the God of Israel was supposed to have had special compassion. Later on in the Bible we learn that the Jews are ordered by the same compassionate God to slaughter the Philistines mercilessly- men, women and children. Even trees and animals are not to be spared, but the Amonities and Moabites are not to be distressed because they are the seed of Lot! (deutronomy 2:19)

No decent reader can read the seduction of Lot to him mother, sister or daughter, not even to his fiancée if she is chaste and a moral women. Yet you will come across perverted people who will gorge this filth. Tastes can be cultivated!

Read again Ezekiel 23. The ‘whoredom’ of the two sisters, Aholah and Aholibah. The sexual details here puts to shame even the unexpurgated edition of many banned books.

Under what category would you classify all this lewdness Wild Hare? Such certainly has no place in any book of God”.

DC this one's dedicated to you…

"SABA SAID: "if im mad at someone it is the arab leaders of the muslim world who 're like chickens, cooped up, too immersed in oil and luxury".

Correct, they are the ones that keep their countrymen in squalor, not the West......"

Whenever the Muslims have followed the Quran and the sunnah, they have succeeded, they have been strong.

The early Middle Ages are often called the "Dark Ages" because the great civilizations of Greece and Rome had fallen.The Dark Ages were anything but dark in other parts of the world. The Muslims were flourishing. It was this time when they were attached to the Quran and the sunnah. They studied the Quran, they discovered all these new scientific theories, they worked on it and civilization flourished.

THe leaders of the arab worlds today, they are chickens as they are afraid to raise their voices against the West. They play right into their hands. American/Western tradition are creeping in. They're allowing non-alchoholic beer.. the type of clothing you'd find in local stores is repulsive, they shake hands with the very people who are killing our brothers and sisters all around the world.

Yes they are keeping theyir countrymen in squalor, but not the kindov squalor you have in your mind. You should be in favour of these leaders. They're on your side. Baba bush baba bush that's what they do in Kuwait, i pity them really, what with all their oil being stolen right under their noses... anyway!

I think DC ur relevant here...
"...while they, and the Mullahs keep their own people in poverty as they embezzle all of the booty."

??? Only two words... what crap...

More to follow on the your favourite topic OpPrEssiOn oF wOmEn in IsLaM...

and how Islam is the fastest growing religion.. and how if Muslims stopped killing people there would be peace on Earth... MikeH Wild Hare and epg i think.

More to follow on the your favourite topic OpPrEssiOn oF wOmEn in IsLaM...

and how Islam is the fastest growing religion.. and how if Muslims stopped killing people there would be peace on Earth... and their stand MikeH Wild Hare and epg i think.

thanks for ur patience
i trust ull be more civilised than you've been uptill now.

May Allah guide us all.

Dear RS:

My point was only to emphasize that if the West perceives every muslim as a terrorist and sexist, then it will only create more problems.
Though I am not a student of Islamic Jurisprudence or theology I would try to answer your question. I know that this form of Fundamentalist Islam originated only a few decades ago, mainly in the middle east, after the first world war, when the allies (mainly Brits & French) divided the Ottoman empire into different countries, and reinstated puppet monarchies in them. These countries were rich in oil and there people remained poor & deprived, the rulers became filthy rich, no democracy, no freedom , or anything else for common people. N the rulers are the darlings of the west also.(name one democracy in the middle east even today,maybe Iraq would be hopefully in near future). Then the youth of these mostly middle eastern countries started to despise their lack of freedom, education, well being, their autocratic rulers wealth(mostly secular rulers, e.g egypt,syria, jordan, Iraq and so on) and also the wests freedom and prosperity, who supported these rulers(one example:saddam was the wests darling in particular us and uks uptill the late 80s, was he not slaughtering his people and neighbors then? yes he was but he was also killing the Iranian mullas). So a fundamentalist movement started. The youth needed an outlet, and they thought only a strict adherence to religion interpreted in its most extreme form could provide this outlet. This movement became a reality with the invasion of Afghanistan, where all these men gathered from throughtout the middle east(supported and funded by the west) to fight the godless communists. Once they defeated the soviets, what would they do, they couldnt go back to their own countries to meet the autocratic dictators, what job would they have, so then they decided to take on someone else, their former allies, the corrupt west. Now the jinni is out of the bottle,and needs to be put back in it. Also again I would say you cant clap with one hand, and I am NOT putting all the blame on the west, for creating this jinni.

What is the solution? DEMOCRACY, freedom of speech, good education, and economic prosperity in the Middle East.

Sincerely,

MK.

Dear MK:

"I know that this form of Fundamentalist Islam originated only a few decades ago..."

Actually that is not the case. Hasan Al-Banna formed the Muslim Brotherhood in the 1920s as a reaction to the abolition of the caliphate and as an attempt to REVIVE the principles of political Islam that had fallen into abeyance. In doing so, he and his movement made use of traditional sources, including the teachings of all 4 major Sunni madhhabs and numerous Hadith and Qur'an passages -- not interpreted eccentrically or in a new way, but according to the principles of Ibn Kathir, Ibn Khaldun, and other traditional voices.

Cordially
RS

Your god..my god. What a load of claptrap, show me a book written by a god and not by the hand of a man. Show me an unmediated scripture which has not been subject to interpretation. Look there is no such thing as a god or gods, Allah or anything else you care to mention, we are on our own. Just because you believe something does not make it fact. You people are the symptom of a backward world of fundementalism and about the only thing you can agree on is that you both believe in myths.

This piece is commonly found on any search engine. Most of you may have read it, but it provides an effective, comparitive analogy of the basic tenets of Islam and Christianity.

We must remember one important thing Annish Shorrosh commented: Love muslims, refute Islam. Why? Jesus who died on the cross for them as much as for me and you. His love is the same for them as much as for me and you.

Saba, Jesus loves you.

Mohammed was the prophet of war; Christ is the Prince of Peace (Isaiah 9:6-7).
Mohammed's disciples killed for the faith; Christ's disciples were killed for their faith (Acts 12:2; 2 Tim 4:7).
Mohammed promoted persecution against the "infidels"; Christ forgave and converted the chief persecutor (1 Timothy 1:13-15).
Mohammed was the taker of life; Christ was the giver of life (John 10:27-28).
Mohammed and his fellow warriors murdered tens of thousands; Christ murdered none but saved many (compare John 12:48).
Mohammed's method was COMPULSION; Christ's aim was voluntary CONVERSION (Acts 3:19).
Mohammed practiced FORCE; Christ preached FAITH (John 6:29,35).
Mohammed was a WARRIOR; Christ is a DELIVERER (Col. 1:13; 1 Thessalonians 1:10).
Mohammed conquered his enemies with the sword; Christ conquered his enemies with another kind of sword, the sword of the Spirit, which is the Word of God (Hebrews 4:12; Acts 2:37).
Mohammed said to the masses, "Convert or die!” Christ said, "Believe and live!" (John 6:47; 11:25-26).
Mohammed was swift to shed the blood of many (Romans 3:15-17); Christ shed His own blood for the salvation of many (Ephesians 1:7).
Mohammed preached "Death to the infidels!"; Christ prayed "Father, forgive them, for they know not what they do" (Luke 23:34).
Mohammed declared a holy war (Jihad) against infidels; Christ achieved a holy victory on Calvary's cross (Col 2:14-15) His followers share in that victory (John 16:33).
Mohammed constrained people by conquest; Christ released people in love (2 Corinthians 5:14).
Modern terrorists derive their inspiration from Mohammed and carry out their despicable atrocities in the name of his god; Christians derive their inspiration from the One who said, "Blessed are the peacemakers" (Matthew 5:9).

Hey VIKRAM

1. Did Hitler derive his inspiration from Jesus?
2. How about Rodovon Karadzic and Slobodan Milosevic?
3. Did the papacy derive its inspiration from Jesus during the witch hunts and persecution of protestants during the middle ages? Or did they derive their inspiration from Jesus while they were burning humans alive in Spain during the inquisition?
4. Does the IRA derive its inspiration from Jesus? How about basque ETA?
5. Also do the RSS and VHS follow the Hindu gods when they burn missionaries alive?

Hey MK,

How do you do? Firstly, the answer to all your rhetoric questions can be appeased with a simple NO. However, I must say you have left me slighty baffled as to the meaning behind your questions.

The reason I posted my message forward was to somehow, naively and maybe immaturely show that if one side of the argument is 'goldfish' minded, then the other side may never produce an answer which pacifies, and that all efforts are vain.

The truth of the matter is MK, that anger can be raged from both sides of the LOC, however being influenced by Jesus and the Holy Spirit produces fruits of peace, patience and humility. Saba can never be won over with our words, but the Word of God can burn the most stubborn.

I hope I put that clearly enough.

Kind regards

Vikram

'...young Muslims in Britain are turning away from the secularized Islam of their parents toward what is described as "pure Islam": i.e., that of fanaticism and violence...'

so what you are implying is that to enter islam completely (pure islam), it is to enter fanaticism and violence. this is a stupid prejudice and the reason for this is that you people are trying to degrade islam.